Luxury hotels are being inundated with requests from self-described influencers

https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2018/06/instagram-influencers-are-driving-luxury-hotels-crazy/562679/?single_page=true

by lxm • 8 years ago

255 271 8 years ago

theatlantic.com

kaendfinger• 8 years ago

I think this goes along with the (perhaps perceived) increase in self-centeredness in society.

mc32• 8 years ago

Or just a general idea of mooching off of someone for free for very little in return. Apparently, it’s a bit of a con with most influencers, but for a select few who actually do move the dial.

JetSpiegel• 8 years ago

This is the entire advertising industry in a nutshell, and that funds Google.

albertgoeswoof• 8 years ago

What does an increase in self centredness in society mean? Did people in the past do everything for the benefit of society somehow

214• 8 years ago

It means that we live in an age were basic needs (for most) are taken care of with very little work. In the past you needed to rely heavily on the community for survival (food & protection from others)

newfoundglory• 8 years ago

Wow, 10% of unsolicited requests are worth looking at? That seems remarkably high.

wuliwong• 8 years ago

The stats cited in the article fell short of my definition inundation.

dasil003• 8 years ago

I'm guessing most people realize it's ridiculous to even send such requests when they have 2k followers.

dalbasal• 8 years ago

That would not have been my first guess.

duskwuff• 8 years ago

I think the implication is that 90% of the unsolicited requests are obviously garbage and are immediately ignored. The remaining 10% may still be mostly worthless, but it at least takes some investigation to identify them as such.

ryandrake3• 8 years ago

The fact that they look at more than 0% virtually guarantees the flood of requests will continue.

If they really didnt want to be inundated with these requests, they only need to cease acting on all of them until the message gets out.

CamTin• 8 years ago

I wonder why the strategy of these "brand personalities" has to be limited to "luxury" type branding.

For example, could you build a following traveling the country by interstate in a Fiesta, staying at Motel 6 and eating at Waffle House? It wouldn't cost Motel 6 and Waffle House almost anything to comp a few waffles and otherwise-unoccupied rooms as an experiment, if they aren't doing similar things already.

overcast6• 8 years ago

People want escapism. Something out of their ordinary lives. Like movies. As someone who is heavily involved in Instagram marketing, I don't see the value for anyone other than dreamers. Which is why my focus is niche, local, and accessible to everyone. In return I send a TON of real customers to places that I choose to promote.

Hnrobert42• 8 years ago

Why do people trust your recommendations? I’m not saying you are untrustworthy. I don’t know you. But that is my point. Why do people trust “influencers”? I would feel like a tremendous fool even following a stranger’s account, much less going somewhere on their say-so.

bonestamp23• 8 years ago

People also want to feel unique and special. If you can show them something they can have/do that everyone else is not doing or doesn't know about then that has value to them. Even if it's as simple as a restaurant that they already go to, but don't know about something great you can order or experience there.

oliwarner• 8 years ago

People want escapism

Do they really though? People are told and trained all their lives to want escapism. That their lives could be better if they drank X, drove Y and wore Z. It's a natural side effect of branding and advertising. It's not enough to sell to the people who actually need your product, you have to convince others that they want it too.

Consumerism is not a natural human mechanism. It's a hack of commerce and something we've only really been exposed to —in any scale— for the last couple of hundred years.

ourmandave• 8 years ago

Ah, the ol' reverse psychology.

By showing people what it's like to vacation in a Fiesta, Motel 6, and Waffle House you'll drive traffic to luxury hotels.

s0rce3• 8 years ago

I've had some pretty good times in a cheap american car (not a fiesta, however), staying at motel 6 except the one in Crescent city near the supermax prison, and eating at generic American restaurants across the country.

mieseratte• 8 years ago

I'd go to a clean Motel 6 any day of the week. Unpretentious, a good value, and frequently you're dealing with locally-run operations so you're actually dealing with folks empowered to handle an issue and even sometimes give a damn.

All of my experiences with mid-to-high end hotels seem like an exercise in bilking you at every turn so you can pretend you're wealthy, and hotel staff that are artificially polite at best, indifferent and uncaring at worst.

pmorici• 8 years ago

There are certainly people with channels that cater to camping or living out of a Jeep / Van. IAmJake for example on YouTube. [0] As evidenced by that I don't think a brand personality has to be luxury but it does have to have a point of view people can take interest in.

[0] https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCbjw-VrJCUb8PTGoiDI2UMw

grecy3• 8 years ago

living out of a Jeep

Hey, that's me!

2+ years, 80,000+ miles and 35+ countries in Africa living out of my Jeep. I've just passed the half-way point and am really looking forward to the Cape to Cairo run North.

http://instagram.com/theroadchoseme/

http://theroadchoseme.com

prawn3• 8 years ago

I've collated a few of these here: https://vanspiration.com/social/

You're right - there are all types. Glamorous, selectively documenting lifestyle types, and others focusing on the craft of it, and others on living that way full time. And there are dozens more trying the same thing all the time, motivated by the earlier batches. I find it all a bit fascinating.

naturalgradient• 8 years ago

This is sort of what the report of the week ('reviewbrah' [0]) is doing, no? Reviewing fast food in a quirky manner. Million+ subscribers on youtube, really interesting to have followed this for 5+ years when he had a few hundred subscribers.

Doing the exact same thing with very small refinements, over and over. It's not that glamorous, but I reckon at 1M+ subscribers he is doing quite a lot better than many obscure luxurious lifestyle personalities.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TheReportOfTheWeek

checker659• 8 years ago

I'm from Nepal and I've been subscribed to reviewbrah since 2016. I suspect his viewership is much more diverse and widespread that you'd think. It's the internet after all.

orbitingpluto• 8 years ago

Pot bellied middle-aged bald white man drives to his Motel 6 in his Ford Fiesta, crosses the street to a Waffle House, gorges himself on waffles and syrup, and returns to his hotel room to cry and wonder where it all went wrong?

Sounds great.

nothrabannosir• 8 years ago

I would create an Instagram account just to follow this guy.

s0rce3• 8 years ago

This is way better than a generic white girl in a bikini on some nondescript far away beach.

alexhutcheson• 8 years ago

Something pretty close to that already exists, and has been really successful: https://youtu.be/ELPKuKvo44k

chrissnell• 8 years ago

Bill Bryson wrote a hilarious--but acerbic--book about exactly this: The Lost Continent .

http://a.co/121JpWz

He was in a Chevette, not a Fiesta, and the hotels were off-brand but it's the same idea. A typical passage:

    Afterwards I retired with a six-pack to my motel,
    where I discovered that the bed, judging by its
    fragrance and shape, had only recently been vacated by a    
    horse. It had a sag in it so severe that I could only 
    see the TV at its foot by splaying my legs to their 
    widest extremity. It was like lying in a wheel-barrow.

pessimizer3• 8 years ago

traveling the country by interstate in a Fiesta, staying at Motel 6 and eating at Waffle House

The problem is that those things are not difficult to obtain, and so any following you would have would be shared by 100K people just like you. To be interesting, you'd have to have some unattainable quality in addition to eating at Waffle House, such as being a multi-billionaire, or an extremely successful actor/actress, or a Turner Prize winning artist.

Of course, this would end up with custom $250K Fiestas, Motel 6 starting a curated luxury brand, and Waffle Houses with chefs and monthlong reservation lists. The reason why a flow of money for nothing comes from luxury branding is pretty obvious. The cash is coming from people who spend large amounts of money casually, in a way that can be significantly influenced by the people they follow on Instagram.

code_duck4• 8 years ago

It all depends on how entertaining the person is. Could Rowan Atkinson do that? Absolutely. Could your average person? No, it would be awkward and incredibly boring. In between, though, sure, someone could make something interesting based on that. Some of the best TV shows have very thin plots after all.

mikec3010• 8 years ago

With the right technique: video production, writing (so much this), and acting you absolutely could game this concept.

kop3163• 8 years ago

To an extent that was what "Anthony Bordain - Parts Unknown" did. He frequently was in very nice places, but he would also go to hole in the wall places that always looked incredible.

Mediterraneo102• 8 years ago

They looked incredible because he had scouts and fixers setting up the places before he went there. If you know some of the developing countries he filmed in, it is quite obvious -- and rather disappointing -- just how inauthentic his local encounters were.

billdybas3• 8 years ago

Have you heard of the Fiesta Movement? [1] Ford essentially did that back in 2010.

With the right brand, right audience, and right production value, anything's possible. Influencer marketing can be finicky, though. A successful campaign requires authenticity – most audiences can see right through paid promotion. I think there's a different dynamic when a brand approaches a creator vs. a creator approaching a brand.

I think a lot of these self-proclaimed "influencers" seek out "luxury" type branding in an attempt to get free stuff they otherwise probably couldn't afford or to create content around a lifestyle which seems unattainable to their audience and therefore draws more views/clicks/shares/virality ("If only I could live like that one day") – mostly Internet junk-food.

[1] https://hbr.org/2010/01/ford-recently-wrapped-the-firs

wastedhours• 8 years ago

You could, but it misunderstands luxury marketing.

The difference between "luxury" marketing and even "premium" (or mainstream) marketing are the former's efforts to influence people who are never going to buy or use the product.

A lot of a luxury good's status comes from the "halo" given to it by all of us who'll unlikely use it - thus giving it the allure to the people who have the money.

So, in essence, it's more important for a luxury brand to have mass market penetration, than it is for a premium product. For example, Aston Martin needs you to know it's an unattainable symbolic brand, and does that through mainstream marketing (like Bond product placements, YouTuber videos etc...) more than BMW does (who're selling to a premium audience who will buy on product rather than perception).

TL;DR: perversely, it's in everyone's interests to use influencers more for the luxury industry than the rest of the industry, and why it's seeing the abuse it is.

dsfyu404ed• 8 years ago

So basically Roadkill if Roadkill was sponsored by Motel 6 and Waffle House instead of Dodge?

newnewpdro• 8 years ago

By the time we pivot to EVs the travel industry will be sure to prevent any dip in CO2 emissions thanks to social media and its hoardes of mindless consumers.

mud_dauber• 8 years ago

Maybe I could become a chip industry influencer. Especially if I could wear a suitably chic factory floor bunny suit.

stevewillows• 8 years ago

a bunny suit with a tuxedo print would really help your brand.

BostonEnginerd• 8 years ago

#metrology is awesome! #quadruplepatterning #FinFETastic!

I'm really happy that I don't work on consumer products.

bonestamp23• 8 years ago

"The vast majority of cold-call approaches are really badly written"

I think he means, "poorly written".

ascorbic3• 8 years ago

Badly and poorly are synonyms.

bonestamp23• 8 years ago

Yes, of course. However, "badly written" is poor grammar.

empath75• 8 years ago

Sounds to me like this is a big opportunity for an intermediary to connect useful social media influencers with various brands.

hamandcheese• 8 years ago

I am very loosely acquainted with someone working on exactly this: https://www.joinstatus.com

I’m sure there are others.

lyzan• 8 years ago

The one I've heard about is https://influential.co - they're definitely out there

bongo662• 8 years ago

Ive thought about this idea. You could potentially make an influencer marketplace that brands could search through to find a specific influencer that matches the demographic theyre looking to target.

grecy3• 8 years ago

http://revfluence.com/

majani2• 8 years ago

funny thing is, there are also tons of influencer marketplaces and agencies, it's a space with incredibly low barrier to entry. Thing about the marketplace is, there is little incentive on either side for the influencers or clients not to skip over the marketplace altogether after using it for window shopping

coatmatter8• 8 years ago

This sounds like Marketing.

blawson• 8 years ago

Plenty of sites like popsugar already do this.

That was basically one of my good friend’s wife’s job.

billdybas3• 8 years ago

FameBit (https://famebit.com) – acquired by YouTube

davidmurdoch6• 8 years ago

https://fohr.co does this and is probably one of the first to do so (they started in ~2014, I think).

chrshawkes2• 8 years ago

Your very late to the game already but it's probably not too late to do something in that area.

futurix• 8 years ago

I just want to know who the heck takes recommendations of 'influencers' seriously? Gullible teens with no money?

Rjevski• 8 years ago

My thoughts exactly.

It seems to me that the target market of these “influencers” is teens with little to no money that spend hours looking at these “influencers” exactly because these pictures are as close as they’re gonna get to that luxury lifestyle.

People who can actually afford this will just go on holidays by themselves with no thoughts about the “influencers” whatsoever, also because by the time you can afford such lifestyles you widen up to the obvious commercial intents of these influencer “recommendations”, making their “review” purpose moot.

In my social circle people who spend days & nights looking and sharing the influencer pictures can’t actually afford any of that even if they wanted to. Those that can afford it don’t give a damn about the influencers.

xapata• 8 years ago

Apparently the advertisers buying space in FT's "How to spend it" issues think at least someone cares.

charlesdm3• 8 years ago

People who can actually afford this will just go on holidays by themselves with no thoughts about the “influencers” whatsoever, also because by the time you can afford such lifestyles you widen up to the obvious commercial intents of these influencer “recommendations”, making their “review” purpose moot.

Isn't the idea to follow people who, for example, travel to cool places that you might not have considered?

Perhaps seeing one of those pictures pop up where influencer X spends a while in a Maldives resort might actually get you interested to go check it out yourself?

Spooky232• 8 years ago

These guys fill voids in google searches and may close a deal when people are looking for validation.

If you cannot make a decision between the Four Seasons and the Conrad or whatever, some random guys food porn or gush about the bellman may tip you.

Travel magazines have been doing this sort of thing for decades.

Nasrudith2• 8 years ago

To be fair that is a good thing as a long term strategy. They may lack money now but in the future when they could afford it that could pay large premiums. It is why marketers were so focused on youth for marketing - they have less set tastes and more big ticket items in the future.

Most teenagers can't afford a sports car but if you win them over they could wind up buying one when they are older and able to afford it.

I have seen the reverse backfire with traditional news. They would take all sorts of bullshit youth blaming and stupid moral panics and then wonder why people under middle age don't consider them worth reading or watching for free, let alone paying for.

philip1209• 8 years ago

I think Instagram is just replacing magazines. People use their phone for inspiration like they used to read paper travel content. Even if they are not traveling, the content fuels imagination and dreams.

zappo2938• 8 years ago

That is interesting. People buy Vogue because of the paid content. The creative and editorial content too but that has equal weight with the paid content to the reader.

hh3k0• 8 years ago

I just want to know who the heck takes recommendations of 'influencers' seriously? Gullible teens with no money?

That doesn't mean mom and dad got no money, though.

I happen to know a kid with rich parents and they frequently have to buy him stuff he discovered on instagram -- YEEZY shoes and whatnot.

I'm sure there are enough kids that'll bug their parents about planning their next vacation where some popular influencer were.

08-15• 8 years ago

kid with rich parents and they frequently have to buy him stuff

You meant to say "rich parents who frequently chose to buy him stuff", didn't you?

tomcam• 8 years ago

Your peers. Daringfireball, A very popular blog with readers of this site, gets something like $15,000 per mention in their newsletter.

MarkusAllen• 8 years ago

It is currently $8,500.

yoz-y• 8 years ago

There are several differences though. First, DF has a lot less sponsorship spots than your average influencer who basically posts ads 24/7. Second, the stuff which is usually advertised on tech blogs is mostly about work related products which also usually cost less than one of those fancy vacations. DF also has more readers that most of the influencers that are considered successful.

Now, I know for a fact that the feeds to influence buying decisions for smaller, cheaper stuff, such as cosmetics. It is not a long stretch to think that it also works for vacations. However, from what I heard, the brands that are most successful in selling out their stock are in the category of affordable luxury.

nikanj• 8 years ago

The same people who bought a brand because a hockey player endorsed them on TV

cityhomesteader3• 8 years ago

I just want to know who the heck takes recommendations of 'influencers' seriously?

Their fans?

Gullible teens with no money?

Probably. But gullible teens with no money have parents who have money and gullible teens with no money grow up to become adults with money. Hence why advertisers want to get to them when they are young. It's well known that earlier you can influence people, the more influence you can have.

"Influencers" is a new word for an old concept - people/institutions with a following.

Lebron James is an influencer. The Atlantic ( and its journalists ) are influencers. Tom Hanks is an influencer. Why do you think advertisers spend so much money on them?

ryandrake3• 8 years ago

The difference, of course, is that lebron James and Tom Hanks have some other talent that can explain their fame, and The Atlantic journalists also are influential because of some other thing they do (besides influencing). These Instagram people are influencers because... why? What underlying talent or past event launched them into their positions?

zebnyc• 8 years ago

If you take anyone's review to inform your decision you are being "influenced". I use a combination of amazon/ youtube/yelp/ tripadvisor etc reviews to figure out which brand to buy for anything / to how things work. These include anything from beard trimmer to cookware set to figure out which restaurant to eat at.

rhino3692• 8 years ago

Gullible teens with money, which is why their influence can be worth money.

Which is why this stuff works for premium mediocre products. Stuff that is more expensive, but still within the reach of the middle class.

But their followers cannot afford 1000 dollar a night hotels. So if I was a luxury hotel, I'd tell them to fuck off.

But if I was a cupcake shop, I'd let each of these influencers eat whatever they wanted for free.

staticautomatic6• 8 years ago

That's not really how it works. The hotel puts up the influencer in the ludicrously expensive over-water bungalow or deluxe suite or whatever. Followers book the cheaper rooms hoping for the same experience.

coatmatter8• 8 years ago

It's not even limited to teens - those with the most money to spend are probably more likely to be in their 20s working their first "real" jobs and having "fun". They've learned about "disposable" incomes, low attachments/commitments (being truly free of parents/guardians), and feel that spending is their just reward for slogging it Monday to Friday. It's a typical "work hard, play harder" mentality, and encouraged by many cultures (including Japanese?).

Alcohol is also factor in some way with many decisions - it probably doesn't come as a surprise to non-drinkers just how expensive a weekly habit can get. It also helps to be able to work on spreadsheets and compound interest calculations whilst staying strictly sober. ;)

Overall in the end, it's still the same old phenomenon; advertising, but carried through a newer medium. TV infomercials, print ads and telemarketing used to be big, but that's passé now.

Perhaps what I find more interesting about the OP is how there are still so many businesses with informal processes when it comes to promotion - even something as a simple as an up-to-date Google Maps listing can sometimes go neglected.

majani2• 8 years ago

I think the majority of people that get large disposable income are heavily influenced by lifestyle marketing. The tech crowd tends to be the exception with our frugal, down to earth ways despite earning lots of money.

mywittyname• 8 years ago

I don't think we are immune, we just aspire for a different "lifestyle" than a teenage girl from NYC. While the teenage girl would be dreaming about partying all night on a beach with cute guys (and nursing hangovers in a beautiful spa), a tech bro might dream about taking a Wrangler through the Moab, camping under the stars for a few weeks.

gaius2• 8 years ago

Lots of people went to Fyre Festival on @emrata’s say-so

https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/04/28/arts/music/fyre-festiv...

But it doesn’t seem to have impacted her career any

matwood• 8 years ago

It's probably not that direct. Having an 'influencer' post about your product is simply another possible ad view. I don't know what a targeted ad cost on IG, but giving someone a free night in a hotel room to have them post about it to their followers may be more effective and cost less.

davidmurdoch6• 8 years ago

It's generally about $1-2 per 100 followers per post.

megy5• 8 years ago

Ok, you are looking for a place to stay, who do you trust? The owners website, a booking website with a million properties? Or someone you know online, like their work, and recommend only a few places?

You have to trust someone.

FireBeyond• 8 years ago

Or someone you know online

Following someone, and knowing them are different things.

like their work

Which often is "selfies in different places"

and recommend only a few places?

That they convinced to let them stay, visit, or eat for free...

goatherders3• 8 years ago

This is what I thought. But then I learned that lots of young professionals with some disposable income take their Instagram feed very seriously. It influences brand decisions, where to eat, where to stay, where to be seen. You would be surprised - I was - how much a post by the right someone can drive revenue.

seattle_spring• 8 years ago

I mean... It happens within the software industry quite frequently. Look at Ryan Florence, the guy who thinks Github should remove "issues". He's revered like a god to some.

umanwizard• 8 years ago

Or Mike Church, or Uncle Bob... pretty common, actually.

sky_rw• 8 years ago

I think you're being a bit too jaded about this. It's less about the recommendation and more about the reach and discovery. There are numerous restaurants, vacation spots, and businesses that I would have never discovered on my own. Seeing a post for me is less about "oh I want to do what that person is doing" and more about "oh I didn't know that restaurant existed". This is incredibly valuable.

toomanybeersies5• 8 years ago

Most people I know who follow "influencers" are blokes who just want to see hot chicks on their Insta feed, or girls with insecurity issues who want to live vicariously through Instagram.

Influencers do work for that certain demographic though, to an extent. Contiki, who offer group travel packages for the 20-something year old market who just want to go on a bar crawl through Europe or Asia, use influencers a lot to sell their product. They're just in the right price bracket where they can say "look, for only $4000, you too can live this kind of lifestyle".

It's the budget-luxury brands that get the best value for money out of influencers. When people splash out a bit of money, they'll look at the successful influencers and say "I want to be like them", and buy the stuff that they're shilling, trying to buy the lifestyle.

Personally, I wouldn't go on a Contiki tour if you paid me, but there are people who enjoy that kind of travel. There are even travel companies that sell packages specifically designed so you can get as much Instagram material as possible, in an attempt to become an influencer yourself. It's a vicious, self feeding cycle.

subpixel• 8 years ago

These people exist across verticals. And many wind up very successful b/c at the end of the day people are afraid of not being cool enough. To wit: AOL's 'digital prophet', Shingy.

mrep• 8 years ago

I think you are just used to the HN and tech bubble. A lot of us here most likely don't consume nearly as much social media as the average person does. "Instagram, owned by Facebook, says its users under 25 spend “more than 32 minutes a day on Instagram,” and users 25 and over “spend more than 24 minutes a day” on the app. [0].

In fact, my girlfriend who uses social media a lot more than I do says she knows like dozens of girls from college who are all wannabe influencers. There is a huge social media rat race currently going on which is why Facebook is making 40 billion dollars a year.

[0] https://www.recode.net/2017/8/2/16081086/instagram-snapchat-...

frockington• 8 years ago

Does your average "influencer" make any money or is it just the top 100 or so that will ever see more than a free weekend and a plane ticket in coach?

SnowingXIV• 8 years ago

Well, I think it highly depends on the niche. My wife for instance, enjoys makeup and skincare products so she follows certain personalities that sell their own lipstick or whatever. The most prominent examples of this that come to mind (because she brings it up to me) is Kylie Jenner and Jeffree Star. The products aren't prohibitively expensive (though I think they are incredibly overpriced and believe she'd do just fine by buying generic Target brand stuff) but she seems to be persuaded by it.

I know with those examples they are selling their own products, but I'm sure there are some more Linus Tech Tips style makeup influencers that she follows that impacts her buying decisions with her disposable income.

pentae• 8 years ago

Almost all of these 'influencers' have fake followers. If they didn't buy them, the majority of their followers are auto following bots or people using bots to auto-follow to get more followers. Working inside this industry it's remarkable how little reach 99% of these people have.

Who wouldn't want to get luxury hotel stays for free, have brands send you free stuff, or get paid to promote something? It's an incredible deception and many are falling for it.

rwmj• 8 years ago

From the article:

"We have to filter out influencers who have basically bought bots. There's a lot of those these days."

davidmurdoch6• 8 years ago

There are companies[0] that scan a user's following to try to determine if they are primarily bots, dead accounts, occasional users, or active.

[0] http://blog.fohr.co/post/2017/9/20/searching-by-verified-aut...

214• 8 years ago

I've seen something which I think is even more interesting.

Second tier influencers (100k followers) paying expensive hotels and private plane trips of first tier influences (1 mil followers), so that they can appear on their feeds, and gain new followers.

swampthinker• 8 years ago

I'm sorry, completely off topic. I can't believe your username was available up until 2016, kinda jealous.

214• 8 years ago

When I picked this one there were quite a few more 2 digit usernames available. I didn't even write a script, looked for them manually. Go grab em everyone :)

fredley• 8 years ago

This is straight up Black Mirror (season 3, episode 1: Nosedive) Obviously the whole point of that episode was to imagine Instagram in its darkest future, but it's scary how much of it is becoming real, and separately with the roll-out of social credit scores in China. Scary stuff.

---

Hansen: So in terms of quality, you could use a punch up right there. Ideally, that's up votes from quality people.

Lacie: Quality people?

Hansen: High fours. Impress those up-scale folks, you'll gain velocity on your arc and there's your boost.

staticautomatic6• 8 years ago

I don't know whether to up or down vote this. I respect it as art and it makes me ill.

jhobag• 8 years ago

Hansen: High fours. Impress those up-scale folks, you'll gain velocity on your arc and there's your boost.

somewhat similar appealing to google search the way to gaming instagram is by having famous people/big accounts/verified accounts comment and interact with ur account so you 1. appear in the activity for their followers 2. appear on the explore page for the potential new followers and more engagement, repeat ad nauseam

"organic growth"

AndrewKemendo2• 8 years ago

I guess I don't get creeped out about this because this is what happens already in life - but it's implicit and unacknowledged instead of explicit and acknowledged.

This same calculus happens at all levels: trying to be part of certain groups (Stanford graduate, YCombinator graduate etc...) , join certain clubs (Founders who have raised a Series A, Forbes 30 under 30), impress certain people (Investors, Board Members) etc... to get where you want. Just change the players depending on what you want out of life.

So if making it explicit makes you feel bad, then you probably feel bad about how things work already.

fraudsyndrome• 8 years ago

the roll-out of social credit scores in China

The thing is, these all aren't enforced by governments, but through social media and organizations. The popular one sesame credit in China is from the Alibaba group, not the Chinese government. In the same vein, Instagram is it's own platform, people can determine how much they think "followers" are worth and businesses can use their own discretion to decide how much to enforce their own policies based on others "social credit" or "followers"

mcintyre1994• 8 years ago

At least Klout died.

tlrobinson• 8 years ago

Anna Delvrey tops them all, at least in ambition:

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2018/04/my-misadventure-with...

TL;DR socialite of unknown authenticity (but definitely real confidence woman) scams a bank, luxury hotels and restaurants, private air charter company, and the author of that article out of several hundred thousand dollars. Did not get the $20M she was hoping for, though.

netsharc• 8 years ago

The article that broke the Anna Delvey story was more thrilling: https://www.thecut.com/2018/05/how-anna-delvey-tricked-new-y... . She managed to exploit people's need for vanity...

There's talk of a movie deal, so, her brazenness might be rewarded after all.

madads• 8 years ago

And thus another pyramid appears...

not_a_moth• 8 years ago

"Influencer". From browsing the influencers in the article, the formula appears to be a) expensive clothes b) expensive hotels c) trailing photographer, d) regurgitation of corny "I am so cool" lines like "It takes cool people to do epic shit", "No one here gives a fuck".

Do you think we could design an AI, maybe GANs and caption generation, to generate influencers like these? The hotels could pay the AI makers to use their images, and would solve their problem of actually having to host them.

Ayraa• 8 years ago

Believe it or not, really realistic looking computer generated Instagram influencers already exist.

Example: https://www.instagram.com/lilmiquela/ - 1.2m followers

s0rce3• 8 years ago

Does this account have followers because its computer generated or in spite of that. Seems like the former.

afro88• 8 years ago

That’s not AI though, it’s digital art of a computer generated character in the form of an Instagram account.

pjc502• 8 years ago

It's being done: https://techcrunch.com/2018/04/23/the-makers-of-the-virtual-...

(Predicted in the Gibson novel Idoru, and no doubt elsewhere)

geodel3• 8 years ago

I think using AI itself sound tech influencer trend. This can be a customized old-school bullshit generator e.g.

http://www.bullshitgenerator.com/

sorokod• 8 years ago

In "the hitchhiker's guide to the galaxy" there is a story about a society that shipped out all its useless members (hairdressers and telephone sanitizers) off planet. If Douglas Adams was writing the book now he may have replaced sanitizers with influencers.

mprev• 8 years ago

Except the lack of telephone sanitizers led to the downfall of the Golgafrinchans, whereas the loss of blogger wannabes from a society would not have provided such a plot point.

MattConfluence• 8 years ago

The story was that they would build three Ark ships. Into the A ship would go all the leaders, scientists and other high achievers. The C ship would contain all the people who made things and did things, and the B ark would hold everyone else, such as hairdressers and telephone sanitisers. They sent the B ship off first, but of course the other two-thirds of the population stayed on the planet and lived full, rich and happy lives until they were all wiped out by a virulent disease contracted from a dirty telephone.

Animats2• 8 years ago

In "the hitchhiker's guide to the galaxy" there is a story about a society that shipped out all its useless members (hairdressers and telephone sanitizers) off planet.

Stanford is doing that with their new Redwood City "campus", an office park five miles from the main campus. No professors. No students. No researchers. No labs. All administrators. "Stanford units that will have at least some employees at Stanford Redwood City include Business Affairs; Land, Buildings and Real Estate; School of Medicine administration; Office of Development; University Human Resources; University Libraries; Office of the Vice Provost for Teaching and Learning; and Residential & Dining Enterprises."

"The first phase of construction at Stanford Redwood City will include four office buildings, indoor and outdoor dining areas and plazas, a child care center, a glass-atrium fitness center, a parking garage, a landscaped greenway, a 2.4-acre park and a sustainable central energy facility."

It's Stanford's version of a luxury center for influencers.

(As a Stanford alum, I consider this embarrassing.)

[1] https://redwoodcity.stanford.edu/

paulie_a2• 8 years ago

You could probably fire half of those people and no one would actually notice.

shostack2• 8 years ago

Genuine question--what would make this not embarrassing for you? Is it the separation from the main campus? How they are segmenting orgs?

weinzierl• 8 years ago

The ship was filled with [..] telephone sanitisers, account executives, hairdressers, tired TV producers, insurance salesmen, personnel officers, security guards, public relations executives and management consultants. [1]

Hmm, close enough.

[1] http://hitchhikers.wikia.com/wiki/Golgafrinchan_Ark_Fleet_Sh...

overcast6• 8 years ago

I think you vastly underestimate "influencers". Just replace that term with advertisers, because that's exactly what it is. Everyone is looking for the new advertising paradigm? You're looking at it. People are ACTIVELY following these people, and enjoying it.

megy5• 8 years ago

I think you vastly underestimate "influencers". Just replace that term with advertisers

I think you are wrong, they are more rock stars or sports celebrities.

United857• 8 years ago

Every reputable travel publication/blog I know of have strict editorial policies against accepting freebies/discounts/gifts in exchange for reviews/coverage.

Those so-called "influencers" aren't really about serving their audience -- they strike me as just a scammy way to travel "for free".

forapurpose2• 8 years ago

From another angle, I wonder why their readers trust the influencers when they are well-known to be bought and paid for.

themodelplumber• 8 years ago

Some influencers take this issue head-on because they know their followers will actually be buying and evaluating the stuff they are reviewing. So they want to build trust because they know it'll be obvious if they are shilling. Newspaper columnists faced this question long before the internet, and some did handle it really well.

pessimizer3• 8 years ago

Because the quality of the product or experience is irrelevant. The goal is to imitate the influencer, and to thereby also become someone who people want to imitate.

If I can pattern myself 90% after someone that other people are imitating, those other people are virtually already 90% imitating me anyway, they just don't know it yet. If I can get them to remember my name, and a significant chunk to think that my 10% difference is in qualities where I'm superior to the person I'm imitating, I've at least carved out a niche, but I maybe on the road to completely replacing them.

Of course on a very small scale, this could just be amongst people at my workplace, or who go to my college.

drb912• 8 years ago

Influencers don’t serve reviews, they serve ads. There’s no editorial conflict here at all: of course they’re biased.

jrnichols• 8 years ago

The "influencers" reek of "I'm young, female, and attractive, and therefore i am worthy of attention and lavish gifts."

Thing is, it works.

mayniac• 8 years ago

To be fair on them, despite what their instagrams show it is a lot of work. My girlfriend follows Alexis Ren and showed me her workout routine, it's easily 3 hours a day. Which combined with reaching out to brands, dealing with advertisers, scheduling, photoshoots etc I could easily see it being a full time job. Plus the constant dieting on top of all that which I can't remember the details of, but I know is hugely restrictive: no eating after 5pm and zero alcohol for example.

For sure a lot of them are pretty low effort and just do it as a side job, but I don't think it's as simple as just being attractive and I don't think a lot of them are as entitled as they seem.

ufmace• 8 years ago

Apparently for many, it works in exactly the way you would think - see http://tagthesponsor.com/

cityhomesteader3• 8 years ago

Every reputable travel publication/blog I know of have strict editorial policies against accepting freebies/discounts/gifts in exchange for reviews/coverage.

Sure, for the writers in order to maintain an illusion of objectivity. But none of them have policies on the publication/company taking ad money in exchange for positive reviews.

Those so-called "influencers" aren't really about serving their audience -- they strike me as just a scammy way to travel "for free".

Nobody "serves" the audience. You develop an audience so that the audience can serve you. Also, it isn't "scammy". It's business and it's been going on long before social media.

Do you think tv execs put Bud Light commercials during football games because they love horribly watered down beer? Do you think X athlete chooses Nike over Adidas or vice versa because one treats their chinese slave laborers better? Do you really think matthew mcconaughey thinks lincolns are the best cars? Do you think steven spielberg or other directors use product placement in their films because they believe in all those products? Do you think newspapers run rolex ads in their papers because they really believe it's worthless to spend money on rolex?

No. The answer is the all these influencers push products that pay them the most. You and I would do the same if we had a following.

balt_s• 8 years ago

This sounds like a touch too much protestation to be coincidental...

Lazare4• 8 years ago

I think you misunderstand the situation. Influencers are offering ad space, not reviews. There's no promise of impartiality.

Also, those "reputable magazines" still sell ads to the companies they cover. There's zero difference here.

Those so-called "influencers" aren't really about serving their audience

They're about serving their customers, ie, the brands. Some do a great job; others do not. And others, as discussed in the article, aren't even trying to provide marketing services and are just trying to scam a free hotel stay. Similarly, some ad networks aren't even trying to provide value to clients and are just trying to soak up advertising dollars, but that doesn't mean all advertising is a scam.

Mediterraneo102• 8 years ago

Every reputable travel publication/blog I know of have strict editorial policies against accepting freebies/discounts/gifts in exchange for reviews/coverage.

We must move in separate travel worlds. Within bicycle touring, travelers with established blogs very often accept free stuff, because this hobby requires a great deal of gear (and gear replacement) that isn't cheap. But this usually doesn't affect their reputability in the eyes of the community, especially when they review some of this gear negatively and note how it broke on the road.

coatmatter8• 8 years ago

To be fair, the parent commenter was vague about what "strict editorial policies" meant.

Tech publications receive free stuff all the time too.

And for people like Casey Neistat - people send stuff to him unsolicited.

paulie_a2• 8 years ago

The only answer to these people should be "literally, not figuratively, go fuck yourself"

merinowool2• 8 years ago

This is such a downer on holidays, when you want to rest at luxury place, but some young people ruin it for you with their obnoxious behavior. I hope there will be hotels that ban such Instagram addicts from premises.

coatmatter8• 8 years ago

This was not my experience with my last holiday. But then again, I did not go for luxury.

code_duck4• 8 years ago

This phenomenon is well known among boro glass artists, or artists in general. Paying with 'exposure'. People frequently contact us on Instagram, asking for free merchandise, ostensibly to review. If they have 20,000 followers, that may be worth it... for 50,000, it probably is. Often, however, it someone with no significant following who therefore has little to offer. Businesses similarly ask for our time to be donated or traded when we do public demonstrations, though typically they would pay other entertainers such as musicians or comedians.

This definitely is not limited to my niche of glass artists. There's a twitter account about the wider world of people who think artists have vast advertising budgets and lots of free time: https://mobile.twitter.com/forexposure_txt

I think these hotels are in a similar spot - it may be worthwhile advertising, or it may be a worthless request.

goatherders3• 8 years ago

My GF has 18000 followers and gas worked hard for her brand to be meaningful as an influencer. She isnt just posting a picture sitting next to the pool. As a result she gets a number of things comped at hotels and restaurants, sometimes without even asking.

megy5• 8 years ago

sometimes without even asking.

How do they know who she is then?

qu1mby• 8 years ago

I believe a number of brands use software to monitor social channels for tags/locations related to their brand. This happens, of course, in near realtime and then it becomes fairly simple to identify them and start manufacturing instagrammable circumstances - comp'd bottle of wine, pretty amenities sent up to the room, etc.

goatherders3• 8 years ago

She tags the restaurant or hotel while we are there. Then a $0 check will appear with thanks from the manager on duty.

davidmurdoch6• 8 years ago

Yup. My wife has only 7000 and still gets an annoying amount of emails (at least for a busy mom of 2) from brands wanting to send her product for "collabs". Hotel comps would be nice!

marban• 8 years ago

People want an authority to tell them how to value things, and they choose this authority not based on facts or results, they choose it because it seems authoritative and familiar.

-- Michael Burry (The Big Short)

kylehotchkiss• 8 years ago

Make them pay upfront for the hotel and then if they can directly attribute 25 guest stays in the future they can a refund. Problem somewhat solved :)

intrasight3• 8 years ago

I use Instagram and other social media. But I just don't get how this works. Perhaps someone can give me and others an overview. I only see the posts from my friends, so how would posts from these "influencers" influence me or other's like me? Why would I follow some random person I don't even know? Really, I'm looking for some enlightenment here. I assume that I'm not the only one.

billdybas3• 8 years ago

It's the same way any other marketing material may influence you to make a purchase. A lot of online influencer marketing is recommendation-based: "I like this product, so you should buy it, too." Think of it similar to celebrity endorsements in traditional media. For many Millennials and Gen Z who follow these influencers, they are like celebrities (but usually on a smaller, niche-scale).

0x38B• 8 years ago

I'm in the same boat, but what I've found from talking with many people is that they use Instagram to discover places and get an inside look, with what they see on Instagram determining whether they go or not. This leads to reviews on Google like "they run a really good Instagram, but things don't measure up in-person" (I saw this exact review the other day).

nomocrypto• 8 years ago

Sounds like they just learned a good lesson about not trusting marketing. ;)

gm-conspiracy• 8 years ago

Ha. I just checked into a Marriott about an hour ago.

In the lobby, there was a giant touchscreen and one of the icons was "social media".

I tapped it, and it said "Our Instagram account is currently offline."

davidmurdoch6• 8 years ago

Many people browse the Explore tab more than their home feed. Even if they don't follow these people, they still may see the post and even without "liking" it it will up the posts "impressions" (business accounts can see these stats). Brands buy ads for exactly this reason. Influencers are the same.

Swizec• 8 years ago

Think of instagram as an entertainment platform rather than a social network. Yougo there to kill time in the waiting room, or for some light entertainment after turning off the lights and before falling asleep.

Your friends aren’t interesting enough for that. So you follow some professional entertainers, influencers.

And that’s it. Now you can be marketed to.

Lazare4• 8 years ago

I only see the posts from my friends, so how would posts from these "influencers" influence me or other's like me? Why would I follow some random person I don't even know?

Everyone else is busy following other people that they don't know. Why? I dunno, ask them.

But keep in mind, other words for "influencer" would be "blogger", "streamer", "content producer". Have you never found a cool channel on Youtube that has enjoyable content? Maybe humour, or crafts, or lets play walkthroughs of video games? Boom, those are influencers. We're all spending time watching other people (be it a streamer on Twitch or a movie start in a blockbuster movie), and brands are willing to pay money to ensure we see their products while we do it.

My partner is learning how to make soap (surprisingly interesting hobby) so she follows a number of different soapmakers on social media to learn more about their recipes, tips and tricks, see cool designs. And also, if one of those soapmakers she respects strongly recommends some range of fragrance oils, or whatever, she's likely to consider them closely when she buys some. Think maybe a craft supply company would be willing to throw some money (or at least free supplies) at someone who will recommend them?

There's nothing new here; celebrity endorsements date back to ancient Rome if not even earlier; gladiators were paid to endorse consumer products. If people will watch it, someone else will pay to advertise in the background. :)

intrasight3• 8 years ago

Have you never found a cool channel on Youtube that has enjoyable content?

I subscribe to a dozen Youtube channels - mostly educational - not just "cool". My question/point was about Instagram. Not much educational value from a photo of a girl in a bikini at a pool ;)

bigbluedots2• 8 years ago

Central to all of the posts in the article is semi nudity, or at least showcasing the female body. That should give you some hints.

coatmatter8• 8 years ago

Quick question: Do you own any Apple or similar big-brand products? If so, why?

Six months ago, I bought a Penny Skateboard because I discovered they were a "thing", thanks to Casey Neistat's videos. I don't even particularly like that YouTuber, but find his "content" fascinating and videos a pleasant way to burn time.

I don't aspire to be like Casey Neistat in most ways - I'm not even interested in making YouTube videos. First class flights don't intrigue me, because I handle economy just fine and like flying in any form. If I saw him in the street, I'd probably say hi but I wouldn't ask for a selfie or shoutout.

So why did I buy a Penny board - something one might associate as only being for children (some people feel this way about bicycles too) - why was I "influenced"? Because I discovered that there exists a third option to skateboards and longboards (both of which don't really enamour me because the former are too noisy and the latter are too large). Penny boards, on the other hand appear inoffensive but are challenging and thus rewarding to learn. Plus, they're not expensive - so I figured, why not give it a go and see if I can learn a new balance-skill especially since it's not something everyone can manage?

Next, I saw a pre-Christmas sale, said "yolo" and just went for it.

I'm glad I did go for it because not only have I learned something that some people will never be able to learn, but I'm still continuing to improve more than 100 hours later while others my age decide to stay on their couches, or almost worse: sign up to boot camp-style ongoing gym memberships so they can hit the meat market on a Saturday night or beach weekend.

Like with any business, it's a numbers game. You might not feel directly influenced and you very well may not be, but most people still will have tried Coca-Cola at least once in their lives.

speby• 8 years ago

In almost every field and industry, companies get requests like this go something along the same lines as mentioned in this post: "Hey, I have access to XYZ audience and we will be doing event ABC next month. It would be great to showcase/use your product and share that with the group. Your company and your product would be front and center for this group of people. All we need is your product for free."

In the end, all this is is just ad sales: I have alleged access to customers who want your product but don't know yet. I can share your company or product w/ them. They trust me. It will influence them to become your customer. Give me X."

And worse than that, many times those requests come with a price tag on top of providing the company's product or service for free.

And really it's no surprise given how social media works. Now any "idiot" can gain a following or an audience over some set of topics, or philosophy, or style, and gain a following that tunes. I say "idiot" less as a derogatory thing and more as a "every Joe or Jane" kind of thing who persists and is focused. Any following of people that tunes into something, anything, can often be cajoled into seeing or experiencing some mention or ad about an unrelated thing and that causes some %-age of that group to pay attention and some %-age of those that pay attention to potentially investigate further and possibly become paying customers of some company or product they didn't know about before. Certainly not rocket science and definitely not new.

What we're seeing here is merely a temporary fashion/trend that tends to focus heavily on luxury hotels and envious-appearing travel experiences.

davidmurdoch6• 8 years ago

I still see influencer advertising in a better light than a brand's own ads.

Influencers, especially the more popular ones, help inform consumers about a product/service/experience.

The only thing an influencer has is their followers and most influencers really are careful to not advertise products that they don't believe in themselves.

bigbluedots2• 8 years ago

The influencers get the product for free, otherwise they would not post. This is not people 'believing in a product', it is people using leverage to sell advertising for which they are paid with the product.

propogandist• 8 years ago

influencers are very selective with their 'reviews' and may chose to leave out things like data-privacy policies, when reviewing a company that provides you DNA analysis -- which should make you question all the information you get from such sources

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U3EEmVfbKNs

mattbierner• 8 years ago

I explicitly don’t trust influencers because all they have are their followers. They often have no credentials or real achievements or original thoughts, so why should I trust them? Especially given that their entire goal is to get people to follow and like them?

I see this pattern a lot in coder twitter. The people with big follower counts that are always tweeting about their amazing coding and love of software development are not the ones building stuff. Even if their feelings are genuine, the excessive self promotion is quite ugly and makes me doubt everything they say. They are not people I want to trust or follow or listen to

toomanybeersies5• 8 years ago

I read a blog post a while ago from a camera tripod company that was talking about this.

Apparently a lot of people even sent in emails along the lines of "I don't usually use a tripod, but I totally would if you sent me one for free".

Of course, the post went on to say that they don't send them free tripods, because it would benefit nobody. The photography isn't going to magically start using a tripod because they got one for free, and the company wasn't going to get very good exposure from a photographer who has no experience shooting with a tripod.

cavisne• 8 years ago

I really think theres an opportunity for a startup here, some intermediary between the influencers and the clients (hotels, brands etc).

I think this will be another huge market for facebook when they eventually solve this. Proper tracking of influencer posts, verification of audience demographics, filtering out of time wasters would solve a lot of these issues.

rorykoehler• 8 years ago

I've seen multiple successful (ish) startups doing this already

abootstrapper• 8 years ago

So, Klout?

duckduckno• 8 years ago

What hypothetical scenario do you guys think could possibly result in the termination of this trend? I think it would be interesting to figure out what could cause social media to die out in the future.

razzimatazz• 8 years ago

I can think of two directions we could go from where we are - perhaps Authorative Media: a return to the government telling us everything we need to know? Very dark, but a "government influencer" could still work..

And perhaps more positive - Truthful Media: Information generated by people, in the 'open source' way that you can fully trust. Hard to believe, but almost necessary. A blockchain of real information sources and trusted information processors (aka influencers), who give opinions that can be traced back to facts.

I think that perhaps glamour and fantasy will always win out - reality is boring and human nature wont get us to choose facts when fantasy gets our attention much more

TheBeardKing• 8 years ago

Another worse case scenario for the future of social media could be one outlined in the movie The Circle with Tom Hanks and Emma Watson. Soon, the "influencers" will be available live, all the time. If you have no job prospects or useful skills, why not just sell your privacy for brand promotion? https://www.imdb.com/title/tt4287320/

dev_north_east• 8 years ago

A recession? I know we didn't have the same type of media now as in 2008 but I remember the huge fall-off in similarish influencers at the time (mostly magazine based).

fma• 8 years ago

Influencers... Probably the same kind of people who reviews Amazon product for free and ends their review with "I've written this review with my own unbiased opinion". We all know it's biased. Thanks but no thanks.

Ironically everyone of those followers wants to travel to that special unknown destination, only after somebody with one million followers posts about it.

chrshawkes2• 8 years ago

I personally have 100,000 people following me on YouTube. My daughter at one point had over 100k people following her on Instagram.

It's much more difficult to get subscribers than followers on Instagram. In addition, a lot of followers are typically on Instagram just to creep on young women and provide no monetary value except for just being another creep in their followers.

Basically, 100k followers on Instagram is a joke and is about equivalent to 25k subscribers on YouTube, only it earns less cash.

timmytwotime• 8 years ago

I have never had the self-{confidence,absorption,righteousness,worth} to think that I could "influence" people in such a way.

Luxury hotels are being inundated with requests from self-described influencers

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