$99 ARM-based PC runs either Ubuntu or Android

http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2013/07/99-arm-based-pc-runs-either-ubuntu-or-android/

249 134 13 years ago

venomsnake• 13 years ago

How exactly it will manage to squeeze ssd into this price tag? Something don't add up. Otherwise a welcome evolution that is even developer station ready at the higher end.

smoothify• 13 years ago

Since the price is "starting from $99" then i assume the base model will be without SSD, and either allow you to add your own or use microSD card / USB to boot.

samcrawford• 13 years ago

I suspect it's based upon this SBC (given it's from the same company and this SBC is marked as a new product): http://compulab.co.il/products/computer-on-modules/cm-fx6/#o...

This should give some rough indication of the options available and the price increments.

stephengillie• 13 years ago

Graphics Processing Unit supporting OpenGL ES 1.1 and 2.0, OpenVG 1.1, and OpenCL EP

I'm curious about what level of output this GPU can do -- are we looking at an OUYA competitor or bitcoin-miner, or is it only powerful enough for basic desktop acceleration?

pmh• 13 years ago

Going on the MX6 specs[1] and GFLOPS alone[2], it should be a bit faster than Ouya's Tegra for the cheapest option and handily beat it on the more expensive models. Bitcoin mining is out of the question - it's basically a tablet-class GPU.

GFLOPS isn't the whole picture of course, but my Google-fu is failing me at the moment.

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I.MX#i.MX6x_series [2]: http://www.cnx-software.com/2013/01/19/gpus-comparison-arm-m...

chmodd• 13 years ago

By the way, bitcoin can no longer be efficiently mined on GPUs since the network hashrate has been increasing tremendously with ASICs (tenfold growth in the past 6 months and continuing steadily)

Lerc• 13 years ago

Do any of the Arm chips that have GPUs that are OpenCL capable have the appropriate support software to enable you to actually use OpenCL in programs?

wladimir2• 13 years ago

Yes. You can actually use OpenCL on the i.mx6. It's pretty cool. That said, there is still quite some room for improvement in the drivers (see my other post above). It is also more limited than desktop-class GPUs (CL embedded profile), so don't expect to be able to run all current OpenCL code unmodified.

wladimir2• 13 years ago

Alas, the Vivante GC2000 cannot do bitcoin mining (not that you'd want to, anyway). The GPU can indeed do do OpenCL, but the maximum kernel size is limited whereas double-SHA1 requires quite a lot of operations.

It's more aimed at computer vision applications such as image filters for robotics.

FYI, I did some OpenCL tests and benchmarks on the GC2000 some time ago and reported about it here: https://blog.visucore.com/2013/3/12/opencl-on-i-mx6 . I'm also working on a reverse engineered open source driver for Vivante GPUs such as that in the i.mx6 (https://github.com/laanwj/etna_viv).

pstuart• 13 years ago

It was noted on reddit that prices start at $99. However you can get a quad-core android "pc" now for under $100 easy:

http://www.aliexpress.com/item/CS918-Cortex-A9-Mini-PC-Andro...

hosay1233• 13 years ago

Sadly the rk3188 on-chip controller is only capable of 100mbit. There's a few more (particularly Freescale) units with gigabit, but generally more expensive. Gigabit or USB3 is when these things start to look insanely attractive IMHO (as possibilities to attach e.g. storage to the external bus exist)

justincormack• 13 years ago

The imx6 onboard Ethernet can't really do gigabit but the second Ethernet on this new machine is apparently a PCIe connected Intel chip which is more promising.

zobzu3• 13 years ago

yeah but no integrated dual gig ethernet 'n stuff. so yes the price/feat ratio is higher on TFA.. but it offers something that's hard to find elsewhere right now, for the router+tv+everything box.

eloisant3• 13 years ago

Why would you need dual ethernet?

untog2• 13 years ago

I really do hope for a world where (if we accept DRM as a given) DRM is more universally accessible. I'd love to get one of these machines to use a media center PC, but I can't do things like watch Netflix/Amazon Prime on them.

(I know I can get a Roku box or similar, but I'm yet to find something that can replicate all the functions I want. An Android machine would be perfect)

schrodingersCat2• 13 years ago

This runs ubuntu AND android. I have a netflix app on my android tablet and phone. This should hypothetically support all streaming video services.

xanderstrike2• 13 years ago

Android with Netflix/Hulu/Amazon plus XBMC ought to make a very satisfying set top box. If you're doing that though, you might be better off buying an Ouya for the same price, and getting the controller + games as well.

untog2• 13 years ago

Is it possible to install Netflix without Google Play support? Because I imagine these devices might not have Google apps.

tracker12• 13 years ago

Already mentioned, but Android should support the Netflix app. The restrictions being you can't have a "rooted" version of Android. The larger issue to me, is does this include the licenses/use of said hardware decoders? Raspberry Pi doesn't, and it's a pita to use the actual hardware decoding for video. This is of concern to me.

Another issue is that's the base/lowest price? There are already competing boards/kits that may be better priced than this is. Once you add the cost for the faster (quad-core) cpu, and storage, how will this compare to an AMD ITX based solution? Whenever I see a media solution like this, that's always the path I go down. When I'm going to actually spend more than $200 for a full version of an ARM solution, I tend to rethink that an ITX solution with an AMD board/APU seems like a better deal.

I honestly think it will take a bigger name to actually push a decent solution like this. Apple TV hasn't done too well here, and nothing else even comes close to that. Roku and other media hubs are pretty limited, but effective. What I don't like so far are the solutions integrated into the TV... those in the blueray players are a little better, but still, would like to see something more open as a platform. I do think that something like Ouya could be that, but Ouya is targeted at games, and almost no media so far... though I haven't checked the Ouya store in a few weeks.

MrMember• 13 years ago

Small note, the Netflix app works on rooted Android devices now.

aphexairlines• 13 years ago

Netflix for Android still maxes out at 480p.

https://support.netflix.com/en/node/237

justinsb• 13 years ago

Dual gigabit, wi-fi and the ability to run Ubuntu makes this very interesting for a "home router / hub" type device. Video output makes it interesting for a media player device. Putting both in one low-powered box is awesome...

msoad2• 13 years ago

For video this doesn't really work. I tried a bunch of ARM devices to use as my HTPC. Problem is video codecs are not optimized for ARM. I think ARM devices are good enough for 6Mbps videos but software is not there yet.

ZoFreX• 13 years ago

If the GPU can do the decoding, or it has a separate decoder chip, then it will cope just fine regardless of the CPU.

jeena• 13 years ago

I'm using my Raspberry Pi for showing full HD video on my TV and the files are on my iMac which is connected with the 10/100 Ethernet controller. I have not had any problems watching movies on my TV. Or is it something else you're talking about?

prg318• 13 years ago

I have yet to have any issues streaming video to my rPi using OpenELEC [1]. OpenELEC is an embedded linux distribution to run XBMC and has a build optimized for the rPi specifically. The rPi can be a little laggy in the menus at times, but I haven't experienced issues with playback.

[1] http://openelec.tv

joezydeco4• 13 years ago

I've been running Freescale's OMX video codecs (via Android) on this iMX6 architecture and it's working great. It's all hardware/GPU based and a typical h.264 stream @ 720p doesn't take more than 3-5% CPU.

lhl3• 13 years ago

It's not really that that useful to talk about "ARM devices" as a class as they vary wildly in capabilities and this will lead you to make very misinformed, or in this case, totally wrong statements.

The i.MX6 has a VPU that supports h.264 1080p60 decode and 1080p30 BP encode. For more information about the VPU you can mouse over the block diagram: http://www.freescale.com/webapp/sps/site/prod_summary.jsp?co... or you may want to review the i.MX6 GStreamer docs as well: https://community.freescale.com/docs/DOC-93387

josteink2• 13 years ago

Dual gigabit, wi-fi and the ability to run Ubuntu makes this very interesting for a "home router / hub" type device.

For that type of appliance, I'd rather have OpenWRT than Ubuntu. Comes pre-fit to the job at hand. And with a reasonable secure configuration by default, as opposed to whatever the thing you've hacked together yourself accidentally leaves open.

That said: Having medium-powered, cheap, compact and appliance-like general purpose computing available is certainly a nice change.

Big computers with lots of cores and gigahertz gets boring pretty quickly. These kinds of things sort of takes computing a bit more back to its roots.

patrickod• 13 years ago

I was thinking the same thing. I'm guessing though that it wouldn't be too hard to put OpenWRT on the box?

s_baby7• 13 years ago

No thanks, OpenWRT package management is awful. None of the advantages of OpenWRT apply to a machine that has enough resources to run a typical distribution.

Everlag• 13 years ago

pfsense is basically designed to take a computer and turn it into a high quality router. Very impressive, I recommend you check it out if you get the chance.

Sadly it doesn't have any arm support whatsoever which is extremely disappointing.

aclevernickname2• 13 years ago

I'd rather have OpenWRT than Ubuntu.

That pretty much guarantees you've never looked into pfSense [1]

[1] http://pfsense.com

zobzu3• 13 years ago

openwrt is nice but if you're able to run a full stack then why not?

besides, you could potentially run openwrt on this too anyways...

s_baby7• 13 years ago

The PogoPlug also meets these specs for $20. Even though it has these specs it never reaches close to full speed. I suspect this could hold true for this pc as well.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/5240/pogoplug-series-4-introdu...

martinml2• 13 years ago

$20?

I can't find that price point anywhere. Was that a typo or am I not looking in the right place?

http://pogoplug.com/devices#pick

lhl3• 13 years ago

As an "all-in-one" this looks appealing (although the Wandboard Quad is still probably a better deal once you factor in all the additional charges that CompuLab tends to add). If you're looking at something specifically for networking/routing, it might be worth noting that other i.MX6 boards have had GigE performance issues: http://boundarydevices.com/i-mx6-ethernet/

icanicant• 13 years ago

My understanding is that it's not a board issue but rather a flaw in the i.MX6 silicon that would affect any board using it. Freescale claim that it just limits the data rate achievable from the built-in Ethernet, but my experience is that the i.MX6 gets a lot of Ethernet overruns even at much lower data rates, resulting in packet loss and unreliable Ethernet. TCP often works around it but UDP/connectionless protocols are thoroughly broken on this SoC.

I would think twice before using the i.MX6 as a router. A laptop maybe, but not something for which you require/expect reliable network links.

eloisant3• 13 years ago

Does the specs look like it could read any video file without lag or stuttering?

I have a Chinese Android TV box (RK3066) and video playback for 1080p files is not perfect.

dfc6• 13 years ago

Does anyone know if the "two RS232 serial ports" is a typo?

If they are real serial ports it sounds too good to be true. They would make great S1 ntp boxes with GPSDOs. I have a sneaking suspicion that line is a typo and/or they have some whacky interdependence on USB and the lines will be riddled with jitter.

takluyver• 13 years ago

The pictures appear to show one port on the front and one on the back (on the left side of each) that match what I find searching for 'ultra mini serial connector', so it doesn't look like a typo.

dfc6• 13 years ago

I looked a little more and it looks like you can plug a RS232 converter into the ultra mini ports but it does the serial connection over the USB bus. This makes the serial ports useless for feeding the computer the Pulse Per Second signal from the GPS. Oh well back to the GPIO pins on the BeagleBone.

nfriedly• 13 years ago

From the diagram on the company's website, it looks like it does indeed have two RS232 ports - although they both have the "ultra mini connector". See http://utilite-computer.com/web/home for a picture.

dfc6• 13 years ago

I am not convinced that it is not rs232 over USB. I can get a DB9 to USB adapter and plug a GPS into any computer. The PPS will come in over the USB port but the jitter will make the signal useless for timing applications.

Scaevolus• 13 years ago

Their block diagram shows the RS232 serial ports as each running over a UART port: http://utilite-computer.com/web/utilite-specifications

One caveat from the I.MX6 datasheet: "One of the five UARTs (UART1) supports 8-wire while others four supports 4-wire. This is due to the SoC IOMUX limitation, since all UART IPs are identical." http://cache.freescale.com/files/32bit/doc/data_sheet/IMX6DQ...

joezydeco4• 13 years ago

I've programmed the iMX6 serial ports and they are true serial UARTs. No USB funny business going on at all. All ports can also run in RS-485 mode with the correct pin setup.

grok2• 13 years ago

Feels similar to Tonido, but fancier looking. Having been using the Tonido for a few weeks as a development web-server and it has been pretty good so far.

fulafel• 13 years ago

anyone know what the 99 USD configuration includes, ram/flash wise?

schrodingersCat2• 13 years ago

The $99 model will be bare-bones for sure.

http://utilite-computer.com/web/utilite-specifications

vidarh• 13 years ago

The design of that box takes me back to '99 and testing Linux on the StrongARM based Corel Netwinder...

peatmoss• 13 years ago

I was trying to remember the name of that one. I've had something of an unfortunate predilection toward small, low-power, general purpose Linux boxen. As a general rule, if I think something looks like a good idea, it is doomed to failure. I really like the looks of this one!

ColinWright• 13 years ago

Link to the actual site submitted here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6046604

However, currently the site isn't responding - I suspected it's died under the load.

Direct link: http://www.utilite-computer.com/

sciurus2• 13 years ago

Too bad there's no connectors for fast external storage, like eSATA or USB 3.

j-kidd• 13 years ago

For general computing purpose (e.g. HTPC + bittorrent + samba), there are always something missing with these small ARM computers. I am holding on to my AMD E-350, especially with the rapid improvement in the radeon driver lately.

Gigabyte Brix with AMD Kabini is going to be interesting, and possibly very competitive in pricing without sacrificing performance:

http://liliputing.com/2013/06/gigabyte-brix-mini-computer-to...

friism• 13 years ago

Exactly.

What I'm looking for is a board with a reasonably fast CPU (preferably dual core), SATA and a a PCI-E or USB3 port for a fast 802.11n/ac wifi adapter. PogoPlug v4 is almost there, but the CPU is too slow to sustain more than ~40MB/s of I/O.

puzzlingcaptcha• 13 years ago

Wyse and HP will probably refresh their thin client product lines with the new AMD APUs as well. Re-purposing those if you can get them second-hand can be quite cheap and get you the hardware you want (HP has standard BIOS, Wyse boots SUSE so should work with some fiddling).

As a side note, I have had a lot of fun with thin clients in the past few years due to a variety of interesting x86 architectures (AMD Geode, Transmeta Efficeon, VIA Nano) each with its own little quirks and features (accelerating torrent hash checking and peer handshaking with hardware sha-1 crypto engine and montgomery multiplier on VIA cpu was probably my silliest project).

eloisant3• 13 years ago

Just put a NAS in your network, the thing has gigabyte ethernet.

sciurus2• 13 years ago

I already have several ARM devices serving different purposes. I'd like to be able to consolidate some of them.

sspiff• 13 years ago

One of the many we've seen over the past 12 months. the iMX6 (NDA-free hardware reference) and dual gigabit make it stand out, but it's hardly revolutionary.

stevepotter3• 13 years ago

I do R&D for laboratory machines. We're trying to break away from the clunky old components (which also almost always use Windows). I started with the Pi but it was too underpowered. Now I'm using hardkernel's odroid u2, which has been a decent experience. But Hardkernel's support is spotty, site is shady, and shipping takes forever. Plus the dual ethernet and SSD are exactly what I was looking for (using usb replacements now which aren't as good). I used an Atom but had trouble with video drivers in Debian. Crossing my fingers on this one. Will pre-order if they offer. I'd love it if someone could offer touchscreens that would easily plug into it, as this has been tough for me.

dfc6• 13 years ago

Have you tried the BeagleBone Black?

stevepotter3• 13 years ago

Actually one is on the way and I'm hopeful. I found the odroid to be incredibly fast and the 2gb ram it provides is great since the machine runs a gui, web server, and other various things.

hosay1233• 13 years ago

Also check out e.g. http://boundarydevices.com/products/sabre-lite-imx6-sbc/ for sterling "real" Linux support, GigE and PCIe

stevepotter3• 13 years ago

Wow thanks. I can't believe this slipped by me. You are awesome.

nullc• 13 years ago

The U2's (http://www.hardkernel.com/renewal_2011/products/prdt_info.ph...) are great, and the performance is a substantial multiple of the RPIs.

One of the issues with arm is that its a whole separate world of compatibility and performance from x86— it's easy to get a order of magnitude less performance accidentally if you're not careful with what you're buying. I'm sure the same is true for x86 too, but people coming from that background have the experience to avoid it.

I'm really looking forward to getting a Cortex-A57 based U2 like device, aarch64 sounds fun.

yawniek• 13 years ago

the wandboard quad is not much more expensive at 129usd and sports 2gb ram, gigabit and sata. http://www.wandboard.org/index.php/details

homeomorphic• 13 years ago

This is great.

ChuckMcM• 13 years ago

This is an excellent price point for this capability. I've been playing around with a lot of different ARM implementations from Atmel to Nvidia and many places in between. What struck me is how spoiled I had become to x86 machines all having esssentiall the same set of "features" just at different service levels. I find myself wanting a Marvell CPU (good at networking) and an nVidia GPU (great at throwing pixels around) with an Atmel floorplan (easy to layout). I'm not complaining, it is a lot more fun exploring the choices people have made putting together their ARM SoCs than it is exploring the differences between an Intel Core i3 and a Core i5.

dmritard96• 13 years ago

This sounds pretty handy as a replacement for an old tower I have hooked up to my tv. The one thing that the RPi offers that I would love to see on this is gpio access. Arduino tethering is fine but I love having really easy access for quickly hacking.

51Cards• 13 years ago

Looking at the back of this unit some of the ports seem awfully close together. With that many it might have been better to stack some of them vertically vs. trying to lay them all out side by side?

jlgaddis3• 13 years ago

Oh hell, another one!? I'm running out of room in my lab for all of these cheap single board computers that I simply can't resist buying! Please make it stop!

jlgaddis3• 13 years ago

On a side note, if anyone is looking to build something like this, please consider building a low-end device (running on Linux) with 16 or 32 RS-232 ports that I can SSH to...

Other than that, give it two USB ports so that the end user can connect a wireless USB NIC and/or a 3G/cellular card if they need to. Two (at most) 10/100 or 10/100/1000 Ethernet ports would be perfect. Video (VGA/HDMI/whatever) wouldn't be necessary, nor would sound.

Keep it under $200 and I imagine the networking industry will be happy to take them off your hands real quick.

steevdave• 13 years ago

Mirabox comes close to what you are looking for, I think

Ecio784• 13 years ago

You're right, last time I bought one for a datacenter (in 2008) I think it was around 1500-2000$ for 16 ports version...

damian2000• 13 years ago

Why the need for so many RS-232 ports?

jlgaddis3• 13 years ago

Serial consoles on network gear (routers, switches, firewalls, etc.).

When everything is working properly, you almost never need them... but when SHTF, they can be invaluable and save lots of time and money.

rwmj• 13 years ago

$99 is quite expensive. Go on ebay and get an A10/A10s-based mk802 for $40-50. Supported in Fedora and Android:

http://osdir.com/ml/fedora-devel-list/2013-07/msg00754.html

Moto7451• 13 years ago

While it's more expensive the native gigabit ethernet ports are nice to have. I use my RPi as a dev server/file server and I sometimes have problems with the USB based ethernet going brain dead and needing a USB bus reset (I keep a USB wifi adapter plugged in so I can still SSH in). I don't really fault the RPi since I'm not using it for what its designed for (hell, the ARM CPU is actually the coprocessor to the GPU[1]).

I think I'll pick one up. It will make for a much better dev server/Time Capsule clone/AirPlay server clone/router than my PI, and then I'll have a free RPi to use as a micro-controller.

[1]http://raspberrypi.stackexchange.com/questions/7122/level-of...

Fuzzwah• 13 years ago

I have one of these (mk802ii to be exact) as well as a raspberry pi. I run lubuntu on the mk802 and it does what I need it to do. However, that doesn't include fast networking and/or video playback.

Personally I would happily fork out an extra $50 to get 2x gb ethernet and decent video performance.

I would dearly love USB 3 too.....

mwcampbell• 13 years ago

I wonder why CompuLab chose an ARM SoC over a recent Atom-based one. The Atom-based Clover Trail SoC, for example, is competitive with the Tegra 3 in terms of power consumption and performance. And of course an x86-based system can run a lot more software out of the box.

hollerith2• 13 years ago

There are no Linux drivers for the graphics engine in Clover Trail.

(And of course licensing Windows would have increased the price by a large factor.)

gcb0• 13 years ago

Is this the official launch price? The same company makes an atom box for $1,700.00

...just saying.

baudehlo• 13 years ago

I don't see any mention of IR input. No way it will work as a TV device without remote control support.

VMG2• 13 years ago

I already prefer a remote smartphone app for my TV

mahmud• 13 years ago

What? Dedicated, tactile buttons to feel around in the dark, vs fidgeting with phone.

aroch• 13 years ago

They sell USB IR receivers, they sell USB remote controls, there are smartphone apps for such a thing

Ecio784• 13 years ago

If you have a not-so-old TV and the relevant software installed (i.e. XBMC) you can use directly the remote control of your TV via HDMI-CEC

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HDMI#CEC http://wiki.xbmc.org/index.php?title=CEC

pippy• 13 years ago

This looks very nice. I've been looking for a decent replacement for my sheevaplug for a while now.

contingencies• 13 years ago

I looked at this market last week and settled on ~$150 x86 FoxConn NanoPCs instead. Why? Mostly time saving worrying about driver support and cross-compiling non-x86 kernels. Also, they can be stuck on the back of a monitor to stay out of sight. Google ChromeOS devices were also suggested for consideration but written off due a combination of cost and the perceived risk of rapid deprecation.

hollerith2• 13 years ago

Thanks. some of Foxconn's NanoPCs are the first Mac-mini-like things I have seen that beat Apple on price, specifically http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16856119...

sbenario• 13 years ago

I'd love to see if anyone could hack Windows RT into one of these. Could make quite the little desktop machine.

lispython• 13 years ago

Last month I had a chat with Raspberry Pi's founder Eben, I asked him between or beyond Raspberry Pi and Arduino, did he think there's a chance to birth other new platform? If so, what characteristics this new platform should have?

And he said "There's scope for something very powerful (almost PC-like) in the $70 price range. If I was starting a new venture today, this is where I'd aim."

nutate• 13 years ago

I feel like with the rash of computers* at this price point, I'm waiting for something at $9.99 before I get excited.

*for some value of computer

$99 ARM-based PC runs either Ubuntu or Android

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