We Found Our Son in the Subway

http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/02/28/we-found-our-son-in-the-subway/

by mccolin • 13 years ago

839 175 13 years ago

opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com

iaw2• 13 years ago

That is an amazing story.

gruseom2• 13 years ago

Pretty hard not to find that touching.

mtinkerhess2• 13 years ago

Great story. Can someone explain why this belongs on HN?

steverb• 13 years ago

Because some stories transcend classification and we have hearts as well as heads.

aviswanathan• 13 years ago

You beat me to it.

chrisrhoden2• 13 years ago

I don't think anyone is suggesting that you shouldn't read this story. I wouldn't expect a story about the latest release of Twitter Bootstrap to show up in the Wall Street Journal, though, and I don't think it's unreasonable to expect that the Sports section front page doesn't include stories about a recent fire, heroic as the firefighters might be.

pstuart• 13 years ago

This is a perfect example of a well-played pivot.

TallGuyShort• 13 years ago

Because, as of this writing, 54 members of HN think it does?

benatkin• 13 years ago

Because it's a good example of how ready some people are for disruption. What seems disrupting in a negative way to some people can make others' lives simpler. Removing the obstacles to gay marriage (or legalizing, but that sort of implies that it wasn't already a constitutional right) is one such case.

noonespecial2• 13 years ago

I think because we do a lot of "sky is falling", "everyone in charge is hopelessly clueless" etc. around here, sometimes we just need some good news about things going right once in a while. Even if its a bit off topic.

stephengillie• 13 years ago

Is this the only location where you receive all of your information about the world?

This site is for technical and business discussion. There are other sites serving chicken soup for your soul.

migrantgeek• 13 years ago

Would you have stumbled on it if it weren't? I know I wouldn't have.

The internet can be too focused sometimes and we lose out on a lot of serendipity as a result.

dubfan3• 13 years ago

A friend of mine, whom I know does not read HN, linked to this on Facebook before I saw it here. I would be willing to bet that most HN readers who have Facebook accounts will see it pop up in their news feed soon, if they haven't already.

EliRivers• 13 years ago

They used eMail to get back in touch with the judge to get married. eMail is way technological.

dubfan3• 13 years ago

So by that logic we should start linking to every story about celebrities embarrassing themselves on Twitter.

njharman• 13 years ago

Cause feel good fluff helps the masses avoid their fears and self doubt/loathing/etc. HN stories are selected by the masses (or some increasing LCD subset of same).

jackalope2• 13 years ago

I can't think of a better parable for opportunity than this story.

bthomas• 13 years ago

Poe's law... can't tell if this is sarcastic or not

michaelbuckbee• 13 years ago

At our best, we as the hacking + doing and building community are both inextricably part of and trying to change society.

This story manages to cut across a swath of different social issues: race, gender (I falsely assumed that it was a woman writing when the first instance of 'husband' was mentioned) gay marriage, the extraordinary power given to the family court system and even the urban versus rural divide.

I don't think this article is going to kick off a bunch of startups that are "like Instragram but for abandoned babies in a subway", but I do think we are in a unique position to potentially effect the lives of millions of people with the output of our work and being more mindful of stories in the larger society can only help that.

obviouslygreen• 13 years ago

While I agree with this sentiment... I also enjoyed and upvoted the article. :)

This might be one of those "just let go and either ignore or enjoy it" things. People complain a lot about non-tech/business articles on HN, but they're not going away... and really, does it matter?

mcherm• 13 years ago

It doesn't belong on HN. But I read it, and... well... I just could not help upvoting it. Sometimes a judge can abuse her powers, and we hear those stories from time to time. This time a judge used her powers to transform the world in a wonderful way.

stevewilhelm• 13 years ago

I think this story resonates with the HN community because it hinges on a very large leap of faith. The same kind of bold, against all the odds move that starting your own business takes.

It's encouraging to read such actions, even if in this case it's not a technical or business move, can end successfully and happily.

chris_mahan• 13 years ago

Excellent!

kirinan• 13 years ago

Renews faith in humanity. This belongs on HN, because it really does point out the humanity that we all want to touch with our development. These are real people, with real issues, with real emotions, and each one of them may be a user of our products, using them to improve their lives, their sons lives, or whatever. Its very important to be able to empathize with people, and be able to know their stories, this is the only way to build great things that people love. You can say that this isn't "technical" or "business" related, it is however very related to human beings and ultimately these "humans" are your business, your source of profitability. If anything, more articles like these should be on HN.

kposehn• 13 years ago

Nail.head.hit

bobwaycott• 13 years ago

What an absolutely beautiful story.

nopassrecover• 13 years ago

Little more detail from 2004: http://www.parents.com/parenting/adoption/stories/adoption-s...

justjimmy• 13 years ago

Bump this to the top! Definitely more details about the situation, and more about the awesome judge.

siscia3• 13 years ago

Love the story.

When we talk about gay marriage and adoption I always need to query a little more, especially about the kids.

What's about Kevin ? His life is "perfectly normal" (how stupid is this expression) ? He is happy ? Does he have problem with his sexuality ?

Do anybody have any experience to share ? Please to be obvious, in neither way...

(Why this is on HN ? Well, because I believe that HN is one of the best community on the internet, it is normal that people want to share stories and ask opinion to other they respect/admire)

westward• 13 years ago

>Does he have problem with his sexuality ?

You may not be aware of this, but this question will likely get you downvoted as it will be perceived as homophobia (or at least heteronormativity).

siscia3• 13 years ago

I was aware, and I really don't care, it is a very interesting question and nobody is in the position to judge curiosity. The whole point of comment on HN is to discuss, share ideas and opinion, caring about down votes is not helping :-) I only wish somebody to answer such question without caring of the reaction of other people

natrius2• 13 years ago

Which is a shame really. Someone's open-minded curiosity shouldn't be cast aside because of a hypothesis that is politically incorrect.

mtinkerhess2• 13 years ago

Parents are parents. Straight parents are parents. Gay parents are parents. There's no fundamental difference.

slurgfest3• 13 years ago

One of the implications of this "question" relies on the common belief that gay men are pedophiles and/or will teach gay sex to the children. In some people's heads, it's a matter of wicked, unclean gays corrupting the innocent children.

If nobody had such beliefs, then it is virtually impossible to understand why we would suppose that gay people are unfit as parents.

lostlogin• 13 years ago

I think you may be wrong. To be parents as a gay couple (particularly if male) there often has to be considerably more effort to get there. This would generally mean that the parents really strongly wanted to be parents. This fact alone surely makes for a better environment for kids than one where the child could be an accident.

moultano• 13 years ago

I do think this is an interesting question however unpolitically-correct it will be. A lot of our notions about sexuality seem to be at least somewhat cultural considering how drastically they've changed from ancient times until now, so it seems plausible that it would change your view of sexuality. It's unfortunate that investigating this sort of thing is dog whistling for homophobia.

One of my friends in college considered herself to be a lesbian, had a long term girlfriend, and had been raised by lesbian parents. She's now happily married to a man and considers herself bisexual. I wouldn't be surprised if someone more to the middle of the sexual spectrum were more likely to act on same sex desires if they have parents as an example.

cgio• 13 years ago

Perceptions of sexuality are deeply cultural. In general the evolution there seems to be towards the more restrictive/puritan.

zeidrich• 13 years ago

The child is better off than he would have been had he been left in the subway. Kids need most of all someone who will go out of their way to keep them safe and healthy.

He had parents who were presumably a man and a woman. They left him in a bundle in a subway.

He had parents who were a man and a man. They dropped everything in their life and rearranged it so they could save a stranger's baby who only needed to be taken care of.

What's the point of even questioning his sexuality? He's prepubescent, he's not got a problem with his sexuality because he doesn't even have a sexuality.

I do know he will have grown up with parents who were not 'normal', but who were tolerant enough to sacrifice their whole quality of life for the baby of a stranger, of another race, of whom they knew absolutely no history. He could have had fetal alcohol syndrome, he could have been a crack baby, he could have been broken in many imaginable ways. Instead, they took this baby, they stood by it even when the 911 operator didn't believe their story, they made sure it was looked after, and when asked they agreed to raise it without hesitation.

These are upstanding people. Nothing indicates that homosexuality is contagious, but even if the kid does end up gay due to his upbringing, then what of it? It didn't stop his parent's from being upstanding people. Being straight didn't make his birth parents paragons of virtue.

kerneis• 13 years ago

> He's prepubescent, he's not got a problem with his sexuality because he doesn't even have a sexuality.

I agree with the rest of your comment, but that specific sentence... It has been known for at least a century that children, and even babies, have a sexuality (which does not mean they have sexual intercourse).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychosexual_development

precisioncoder• 13 years ago

I would assume he would have less problems than a normal child in accepting his own sexual identity but more problems in acting on it if he was straight. Gay parents would probably be accepting of any sexuality and supportive which would free a child with a non-normal sexual identity from judgement and provide more support. If however the child was straight while the parents would probably be supportive he wouldn't necessarily know what his traditional gender role in a relationship would be from observation of his family. (Which could be a help or a hindrance in the dating world) however I'm sure that could be easily counter-balanced by the accessibility of straight role models in normal society who could give advice and guidance.

nicholassmith• 13 years ago

Wikipedia to the rescue: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_parenting#Sexual_orientati...

However, there's lots of studies with lots of results and generally often very small sample groups. I would say from the article it sounds like he's well adjusted and happy, if he's gay he's gay, if he's straight he's straight.

jules• 13 years ago

> Does he have problem with his sexuality ?

I find it hard to understand what you mean by this question.

Are you asking whether Kevin is gay? Most children raised by gay couples are straight, but if Kevin was gay, would you consider that to be a problem with his sexuality?

If that's not what you meant, then what did you mean? Can you give a concrete example of something that you'd consider a problem with his sexuality that might be caused by his parents being gay?

darkarmani2• 13 years ago

> Does he have problem with his sexuality?

What do you mean by problem? Like he feels guilty for being straight or something?

thisone3• 13 years ago

You may want to read both The Kid and The Commitment by Dan Savage. They might give you some personal insights into family life as a gay couple with a baby.

mrb3• 13 years ago

It seems to be a fictional story. The author is a playwright and a screenwriter. No last names are given (except the author), and the desire for anonymity is not explicitly stated.

I am surprised the NYT Editor did not ask the author to make it clear if it is a fictional or real story.

scott_s3• 13 years ago

It's not. There is a clear byline with the author's full name. We generally understand that columns in the NYT are not fiction.

mrb3• 13 years ago

To me, it is unclear if the first-person narrative is a literary device, or refers to the author. I am really confused. I wish someone could clarify.

dubfan3• 13 years ago

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jayson_Blair

apaprocki• 13 years ago

It appears real.. read this:

http://www.parents.com/parenting/adoption/stories/adoption-s...

tptacek3• 13 years ago

This objection is beyond silly, but here's another writeup, not from this author, for Parents magazine.

http://www.parents.com/parenting/adoption/stories/adoption-s...

balabaster• 13 years ago

Honestly if there was more of a proliferation of this kind of news instead of the constant barrage of negativity and fear that is pushed upon us through mainstream propaganda er... media channels then perhaps we wouldn't need the TSA with their hands up our butts feeling around for shit that isn't there... pun intended.

ritchiea• 13 years ago

Really heart warming. Also makes me wonder how they handled the financial challenges of raising a child as a young social worker and playwright couple in new york.

shawndumas• 13 years ago

print version

http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/02/28/we-found-our...

Geekette2• 13 years ago

Ugh. This yanked a couple of thug tears outta me.

And for those wondering what place this has on HN, I actually read HN for interesting, often-not-technically-related news.

iaw2• 13 years ago

"thug tears" <--- hilarious

Geekette2• 13 years ago

Hah! You mock but this is a serious issue for those of us who can't have their reputations for non-mushiness compromised.

javajosh• 13 years ago

Yeah, my eyes watered a bit, too. Probably the the perfume of all the hotties hanging off me while I read the article.

frooxie• 13 years ago

I actually read HN for the thug tears.

snogglethorpe• 13 years ago

You'll be interested in my new startup idea then:

Thug tears—inna bottle! On the internet.

sixofhearts• 13 years ago

My first non-congratulating HN comment ever is to completely agree with you. Valuable insights come from all different kinds of stories. I'm glad this community recognizes that, and what a wonderful piece this is.

shawnc• 13 years ago

This got me too. And there hasn't been much that moves me to a few tears in many years now. My two daughters born are about the only things. That's probably why, i'm a big softie for kids now.

ianstallings4• 13 years ago

But there are plenty of other places for that and although these stories are heart warming I come here for technical articles and discussion. These stories just clog that up and keep other more technical stories deeper in the site.

s_baby• 13 years ago

So do posts like this one.

robomartin2• 13 years ago

Yup. Got me too. Beautiful story. Lots of love there.

Neither my wife nor I were ready for any of our kids. I don't think you ever are. What these guys did was, among other things, down-right heroic. Not everyone would be open to changing their lives to such an extent by choice.

It's also a wonderful representation of real values found in the gay community.

This country will be far better off when we start to seriously pull away from fanatical religiously-motivated phobias, discrimination and down-right bigotry.

As an atheist I am actually seen as worst than a gay person by the religious extreme right. I bet you a pile of cash not one of those self-righteous a--holes would even think about adopting a non-white kid someone found in the subway.

Anyhow, enjoyed the story. Something socially positive to point to for the day. And, yes, I think it definitely belongs on HN's front page. Personally, when I only focus on tech I feel like I become less of a human being. This is one thing my kids taught me by force over the years.

bwaldrep• 13 years ago

Sorry to nitpick, but these two quotes stuck out at me:

> "I bet you a pile of cash not one of those self-righteous a--holes would even think about adopting a non-white kid someone found in the subway."

Having known several families from the religious right who have done exactly this, I would be happy to accept your pile of cash. There, now we can let my anecdotal evidence cancel out the hasty generalization.

> "This country will be far better off when we start to seriously pull away from fanatical religiously-motivated phobias, discrimination and down-right bigotry."

While this may be true, one should not take it as an excuse to indulge in non-religiously-motivated bigotry.

n09n• 13 years ago

If it were not for those fanatical religiously-motivated phobias that you decry, that kid would have been murdered before he was ever born.

tptacek3• 13 years ago

Sound reasonable to me. That judge is probably a parent. I suspect most parents understand: if we waited to be "ready", nobody would ever be a parent. Conventional parents get months and months of notice. If they're like me, they're still nowhere close to "ready". It's terrifying. But you, and these guys, and everyone else just do what we've been doing for hundreds of thousands of years.

polymatter• 13 years ago

"But you, and these guys, and everyone else just do what we've been doing for hundreds of thousands of years."

I don't mean to scare you, but that is the mother of all sampling bias (to quote xkcd). The parents that don't do so well, generally have a smaller chance of being grandparents. I'm sure all of you reading this will do just fine though.

I also need to say that that judge was awesome.

jiggy20113• 13 years ago

If they neglect their kids so bad that they actually die, which I guess used to happen frequently before the invention of welfare etc.

Now you have a lot of not so great parents spawning at an alarming rate.

Alex3917• 13 years ago

"The parents that don't do so well, generally have a smaller chance of being grandparents."

Some people would argue that those who don't do well as parents are more likely to have grandkids...

gojomo2• 13 years ago

Indeed, the judge managed (on an ultra-compressed timescale) to provide this same-sex couple the same experience of surprise parenthood that alt-sex couples may have through an unplanned pregnancy.

This principle could be advanced more systematically. That is, perhaps adoption by same-sex couples should not just be permitted, but random and compulsory. If you're married and of child-rearing age, you might be assigned a baby!

The agency making the assignments can be called the State Taskforce Organizing Reproductive Co-equality, or STORC. So when these children ask where they came from, the happy parents can honestly say, "the STORC dropped you off".

lucian1900• 13 years ago

It would need an opt out, much like contraception.

tommorris• 13 years ago

"you might be assigned a baby!"

Oh, please god no.

Not ever having to worry about getting a phone call telling me I've gotten someone pregnant is right up there on the best-things-about-being-gay list with watching men's gymnastics at the Olympics and it being okay to own lots of shoes.

Are you trying to make us miserable?

ericb• 13 years ago

Fellow child-commenters: parent comment is best enjoyed as delightfully Swiftian.

naner• 13 years ago

if we waited to be "ready", nobody would ever be a parent.

Pretty much all of my friends who have kids planned it out based on specific milestones (when we have a house, when we are making more money, when the wife is done with her residency, etc). Then 90% of the time life doesn't go as planned and milestones keep getting pushed back so they go "fuck it - we're getting old" and stop using birth control.

jpdoctor• 13 years ago

Good god this has nothing to do with HN.

Good god am I glad that it got to the front page so I read it.

drakeandrews2• 13 years ago

Ergo it has everything to do with HN.

StavrosK• 13 years ago

Yeah, "what belongs on HN" is basically "what HNers upvote".

nikcub• 13 years ago

I was waiting for the part where they asked the judge to join their new web based child adoption startup as an advisor

Taylorious• 13 years ago

Good story. Am I the only one who read the title as "We Found Our Son in Subway?" As in the restaurant.

Mz3• 13 years ago

I don't know why people would say this does not belong here. Social hacking gets so little respect.

Two thumbs up.

ianstallings4• 13 years ago

WTF is social hacking? Such a trendy, useless, word.

Mz3• 13 years ago

Figuring out effective social solutions. The article is a great example of the judge cutting through red tape, a gay couple getting a child without having to fight social crapola tooth and nail, and culminates with a gay marriage which couldn't have previously taken place but is now possible. Plus the couple used the marriage as an opportunity to give some closure to their adopted child. I think it is brilliant on several fronts. And this social stuff is something a lot of hackers seem to feel is a personal weak area, so articles like this potentially have more value for them than for someone like me who already has good skillz in this area.

But thanks for proving my point that it gets way undervalued here.

mynameishere• 13 years ago

Foundlings are actually fairly common. The only novelty here is that the adoptive individuals are nontraditional.

twstws• 13 years ago

This was hard for me to read. I spent four years waiting to adopt a child.Did almost a year of training and home visits, then waited. And waited. Why does it take so long? Because we selfishly insisted that we'd only take one ortwo children. The social workers were not subtle in letting us know that we were selfish to not want a sibling group of 4 or 5(?!) kids all at once. They made it absolutely clear that we could not expect to have a newborn, and a child under 8 was unlikely.

So to hear that, on a hunch, a judge can give a newborn to a couple that had expressed no previous interest in having kids, wtf. It's a nice story, and I'm glad that it worked out so well for everyone. But for me it really underlines how fucked up the system really is.

unreal372• 13 years ago

Thanks for sharing this. The OP is a great story as well. Bureaucracy sucks more than it helps almost always.

corin_3• 13 years ago

I think that's much too simplistic a view - I don't know whether you're right or wrong, but based on the way you worded it I think you almost certainly don't either.

If, without paperwork, one child was sexually abused for every one child who got adopted, would you agree that more bureaucracy was needed? Now go to the other extreme, where the bad scenario happens only once in a million and is "child gets insulted by new parents", meanwhile no other children are getting adopted to prevent this minor one-in-a-million chance. Definitely too much paperwork.

Before saying that bureaucracy, in this area, helps more than hinders, or hinders more than helps, you not only need to know these stats (i.e. how many children would be worse or better off with more or less bureaucracy), but also make a subjective judgement call on what rations are acceptable.

Evbn4• 13 years ago

Were you waiting in the same state/program/whatever? Maybe your state has less supply and you should enlist in NY.

fnordfnordfnord2• 13 years ago

I'd like to think that the judge in this case was (very pragmatically) wanting to avoid having the infant in foster care for any longer than necessary. I'm happy that it seems to have worked out.

konstruktor• 13 years ago

With a long backlog of couples interested in adoption, having undergone rigorous checks, this would have been easy. The judge let a couple adopt a child where half the couple wasn't even informed.

ajtaylor• 13 years ago

My wife and I also adopted through a state Family Services division. You probably don't want to hear how we got lucky and got a baby within a few months... But we did come pretty close to taking a sibling group of 5. The case worker basically decided she didn't like/want us and that was that. We were pretty upset at the time, but things often have a way of working out.

The system is massively screwed up, but I hope you can be patient. Being a parent is worth all the waiting and heartache x 1000!

salgernon2• 13 years ago

It's 4am and I'm reading hacker news in the play yard.

I guess without kids it's be 4am and I'd be debugging something.

In only one of these scenarios am I not covered in vomit.

I'm hoping for one of those "what'll you remember later" moments, but right now I'm remembering a particularly nice day with gdb and otool -tv. Darling little otool!

knodi• 13 years ago

My grand-father when he was a young 15 years old farmer found a lost kid on an Indian train. After search for his parents for years with no luck. He adopted the lost kid, at the age of 18 he became a father of a 7 year old. Today the little kid is a retried doctor that resides in New Jersey.

stretchwithme2• 13 years ago

My theory is that one of the reasons nature makes gay people is so that there are extra parents.

ck23• 13 years ago

Lovely story but what kind of husband offers to adopt a child without even previously discussing it his wife?

Great relationship there. This story turned out well only because of her.

BTW this is why many cities now have a law there is no penalty to leave a newborn at a firestation, yet some cities still resist it.

gsmaverick• 13 years ago

Fyi, I believe this is actually a gay couple given the author's name is Peter and his partner is named Danny.

ck23• 13 years ago

Oops, my fault for not paying attention to details.

Still, who adopts a child spontaneously without consulting their parter?

The real miracle here is the partner that didn't leave him over it.

CaptainZapp• 13 years ago

Which makes the judge even more amazing in my book.

10 years ago it was more then extraordinary to entrust a gay couple with adopting a child.

Times and attitudes have changed massively in this time, which is a good thing. It's much better for a kid to be brought up by a loving, caring gay couple then in a total dysfunctional traditional marriage.

jacquesm• 13 years ago

> what kind of husband offers to adopt a child without even previously discussing it his wife?

Even if the other party did not agree with it initially this is just the same reaction any parent would have for their children, which is that the childs needs come first.

Makes perfect sense to me.

muriithi• 13 years ago

This would never have happened in Kenya where the Children's Act expressly forbids homosexuals from adopting. Sad.

paulnechifor• 13 years ago

I'm wondering how many upvoted because they found the article worthwhile versus upvoting because they noticed the author is not a women and that's what's expected. I say this because to me it looks like it's something that's off-topic judging by the guidelines.

lysium• 13 years ago

Touching story!

RyanMcGreal• 13 years ago

Well damn. Now I have to wipe these tears off my keyboard.

conroe643• 13 years ago

What a corny story

dasil0032• 13 years ago

If it weren't true...

conroe643• 13 years ago

Fuck off.. I've got a right to my own opinion

We Found Our Son in the Subway

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