The BlackBerry, Rebuilt, Lives to Fight Another Day

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/31/technology/the-blackberry-refreshed-lives-to-fight-another-day.html?pagewanted=1&smid=tw-nytimes&_r=0

by interconnector • 13 years ago

103 85 13 years ago

nytimes.com

geon3• 13 years ago

I seriously don't mean to troll, but... It looks like an iPhone.

interconnector3• 13 years ago

The differences are evident when the phones are placed side by side http://assets.gearlive.com/blogimages/iphone-5-blackberry-z1...

runako• 13 years ago

I can't tell if this comment is satirical, and the picture doesn't help.

geon3• 13 years ago

I hate to make this place more like Reddit, but that photo, combined with your comment was the funniest thing I've seen today!

On a more serious note, I think it illustrates the absurdity of the Apple vs. Samsung spectacle.

purephase• 13 years ago

In a way that almost all devices now look similar to an iphone I guess. I've held the Z10 in my hand and it is definitely different.

GiraffeNecktie• 13 years ago

As in slim black rectangle? What other shape or color would you suggest?

dear2• 13 years ago

Plenty! Just compare the form factors many smartphone manufacturers were using before the iPhones. Now everyone tries to look like an iPhone.

geon3• 13 years ago

Exactly. I just think it's funny after the Samsung spectacle the last time.

freehunter2• 13 years ago

It looks nothing like an iPhone. There's a line above and below the screen, the call speaker is a completely different shape and size, the camera is in a radically different location, and it says, in big bold letters, Blackberry across the bottom. There's also no button on the front like the iPhone has.

Other than that, it has the general shape and design of an LCD panel. But don't pretend it looks like an iPhone when it doesn't.

patgarner• 13 years ago

It looks way more like an iPhone than what I have generally associated with the name Blackberry where half the device is a landscape screen and half of it a keyboard. I also think it's fair to say that the iPhone popularized the look of having the general shape and design of an LCD panel. While the comparison is certainly not black and white, I don't think it's fair to snarkily claim OP is pretending. I do think it's fair to say the new device has a similar overall shape and design as the iPhone. Watching the video review on the Verge I was also struck that they had chosen to go in a visual direction similar to iOS and Android rather than strike off in a new direction like Microsoft.

snowwrestler• 13 years ago

All modern smartphones look like an iPhone, just like all smartphones before the iPhone looked like a Blackberry. That's why the iPhone was such a monumental product--it shifted the entire industry.

martythemaniak2• 13 years ago

As a Canadian, I really do wish them well. It's hard to imagine Waterloo's startup ecosystem existing without a large anchor company like RIM and Mike Lazaridis (RIM founder) is one of the most inspiring philanthropists alive.

Having said that, they're going to have a tough time. Realistically it's possible for them to take a solid #3 spot behind Google and Apple, however Microsoft is ready to pour billions to make sure they're that #3. In fact, it's not clear whether there is a #3 exists at all, although I suspect it does.

Lastly there's the question of whether BlackBerry can remain independent. A good BB10 launch will make them an attractive target - perhaps Amazon is tired of being chained to Android.

thoughtcriminal• 13 years ago

It's Apple's game to lose. Tim Cook is exactly the wrong person to be CEO. He seems like a tweaker, someone who dusts and sweeps in the corners but won't move the furniture.

On the other hand, Blackberry (it feels weird not calling them RIM) are going all out. Their innovations to BB10 will make Tim Cook look even more uninspired.

EDIT: The above comment is my prediction of the public's perception of Tim Cook in the next few months (an otherwise nice guy and good leader). Not gospel. But it will be interesting to watch how BB10 does and how Apple responds.

marknutter2• 13 years ago

> Their innovations to BB10

Which innovations?

martythemaniak2• 13 years ago

The way I see it that everything that made the iPhone so original and successful has now been more or less commoditized and so the field is somewhat open.

The closest thing I've seen to the next stage of smartphone evolution is Google Now. Even in it's lowly v1 it is useful and I can totally see it becoming Android's killer app. Also, Google's engineering and services are well suited to executing well - they have expertise in machine learning, they have tons of data, etc. I'll be interesting to see what happens.

glhaynes• 13 years ago

Cook's a terrible guy to be the same type of CEO as Jobs was. But it doesn't follow from that that he's a terrible CEO, and I think it's exactly why he took the opportunity to elevate Ive to head of all design.

Mvandenbergh• 13 years ago

>Having said that, they're going to have a tough time.

I don't think it'll be as tough as all that. Remember that they still have their huge corporate install base. If they'd waited another 18 months to release this, they would have really been losing that market as companies started replacing their BB infrastructure. As is, they can parlay their huge corporate client base into a market for this new phone.

ChillyWater• 13 years ago

That is where I am. I work for <major defense contractor> and they pay for my phone. I can have any one I want as long as it is a BlackBerry Curve.

This is my only chance at anything even resembling a cool phone.

tsunamifury2• 13 years ago

I've been using the BB10 for a few months now, building software for the launch. I was extremely skeptical at first, but after the push to launch, I have a lot of positive things to say about the device and the OS.

1) Its fast, memory management isn't an issue for developers like it is on Android or even iOS.

2) Its smooth and multitasks well. QNX does deliver here big time.

3) Its solid -- during the Alpha and Beta stages, I never had a crash -- this is, looking back, astounding.

4) Native development is not as demanding as Android or iOS. The dev ecosystem guides you well to just the right balance between native UI elements and customization and you can do it in a language you likely already have knowledge of. (Java, QT, HTML5, C++)

Overall -- it was a pleasure to build and launch apps on BB10 -- which is more than I have to say for other ecosystems. I'd describe it as the the ease of developing the display layer for a Windows Phone app mixed with the flexibility and depth of an Android app and the power of iPhone hardware.

Background: I'm a hardcore iPhone user who is in the mobile industry and regularly uses hundreds of mobile devices.

ameen• 13 years ago

Honestly, I never expected RIM to have such a powerful launch, BB10 really delivered where they needed to. I've been growing sick of iOS's limitations and Nexus's hardware design direction - Non user-replaceable batteries and absence of external memory cards.

Blackberry sounds interesting and for once since Symbian, I feel relieved.

jug6ernaut• 13 years ago

> "memory management isn't an issue for developers like it is on Android or even iOS."

Memory Management is a issue on android development? Ive been dev'ing for android for > 2 years and i have never had a memory management issue. Not saying there isnt one, but i would imagine you would have to be doing something wrong for it to be an issue.

> " Native development is not as demanding as Android"

Could you elaborate on what you mean by "demanding"? The vast majority of android apps happily spend there entire lives never touching native code...

tsunamifury2• 13 years ago

Up until 4.0-ish you didn't have great native UI libraries and so forth to help you quickly put together a native app w/o designing a UI library from the ground up.

zmmmmm4• 13 years ago

Memory managment was a pain in the butt when I was developing for Android. Mainly because apps (then) were limited to a 16MB heap and bitmaps would allocate memory automatically but need to "reminded" to release it afterwards. The only real way to know if you'd exceeded the limit when you tried to open a bitmap was to catch the OutOfMemory exception and retry with a lower sampling of the image. So the simple act of trying to read an image into memory and display it turns into a complex memory management scenario. Good times.

nextparadigms2• 13 years ago

From the videos I've seen before, I think BB10 handled "real multi-tasking" the best among all modern mobile OS's. Even Ubuntu for phones seemed to lag a little between switching apps. But with BB10 entering a new app seemed instantaneous. Granted Ubuntu for phones is still in alpha mode.

Also the "true multi-tasking" of BB10 may also impact the phone's battery life. So far the battery reports about Z10 haven't been that great. RIM (Blackberry now) should've tried to compensate that with a bigger battery or something.

zainny• 13 years ago

Interestingly enough, for a contrasting position, the Verge review calls out the OS for being poor at handling multitasking:

"I don't feel BlackBerry 10 deals with multitasking or notifications as effectively as other platforms do (most notably Android), but it's not a total strikeout." http://www.theverge.com/2013/1/30/3929760/blackberry-z10-rev...

helloamar• 13 years ago

How is the battery life? I'm tired of charging my 9900 twice a day :(

zmonkeyz3• 13 years ago

On the Verge review he stated that sometimes he could go from 9am to 6pm and the phone would be dead and other times it lasted a bit longer. I'm wondering though if this is because BB10 has real multitasking (judging by the Playbook) and any apps he leaves open are actually running.

muyuu• 13 years ago

Pretty solid selling points to be honest. I guess I might give it a try.

zmonkeyz3• 13 years ago

I'm curious, does the QNX OS on BB10 also have Dtrace?

dear2• 13 years ago

Looks like a black iPhone!

mindcruzer• 13 years ago

Every smartphone looks like an iPhone. What did you think it was going to look like?

notatoad• 13 years ago

in that it's rectangular and has a screen?

orangethirty• 13 years ago

Any pictures/videos of the UI in action?

Edit:

Thank you.

Seems the UI is a mix of all the current fads. Not a bad thing itself.

madvoid• 13 years ago

The Verge has a pretty good video review that outlines the hardware & software for the Z10: http://www.theverge.com/2013/1/30/3929760/blackberry-z10-rev...

amartya916• 13 years ago

Engadget has a really decent review of the OS.

Link: http://www.engadget.com/2013/01/30/blackberry-os-10-review/

interconnector3• 13 years ago

From the BlackBerry Youtube channel: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fOjLxtFUY1I

easternmonk2• 13 years ago

I wish blackberry all the luck in the world. They acknowledged the problem and did everything they could to develop it.

MBCook3• 13 years ago

> They acknowledged the problem and did everything they could to develop it.

Well, it seems like they half-assed it the first few times, like the Torch. I'm glad they decided to really do it right and not keep dancing around things.

They came out with a much stronger showing that I expected. There may be hope for them left, and it's always good to have another player to poke at Android and iOS.

easternmonk2• 13 years ago

I dont want Google and Apple to know where I walk, drive and with whom I speak. They already know what I do on my computer and what mails I write. Dont want them to know a more about me.

dools2• 13 years ago

I came to read the HN commenta first and things were starting to sound pretty positive. Imagine my abject disappointment when I clicked through to the story and saw a gigantic touch screen.

blindhippo• 13 years ago

They have 2 models. Read further...

dools2• 13 years ago

Aha! Cool thanks. The Q10. Geez looking at that thing makes me wonder why the hell Motorola aren't investing in improving the Pro+ and the Master. That Q10 looks like a piece of shit.

I LOVE the Pro+ but they're faulty as hell (random reboots, screen freezes etc.) in fact a lot of Motorola's have this problem (judging from various forums). It's basically the only phone in the world I can use - incredible form factor and the only usable candy bar qwerty android phone - so frustrating that they're almost impossible to get and then those you do get, are faulty.

STEP UP MOTOROLA!

eitland• 13 years ago

I guess my Note II is not the only one who has this features: " A subtle light blinks above the screen to indicate that something — a text, an e-mail message, voice mail, a Facebook post — is waiting for you. Without even pressing a physical button, you swipe up the screen; the Lock screen lifts like a drape as you slide your thumb, revealing what’s underneath." (I guess at least all high end Samsung phones has them.)

Also, Apple keep getting a whole lot for free: "...you give up some very attractive ecosystems, like the way Apple synchronizes your calendar, messages, and photos on all your gadgets. Or, for Android, the similar conveniences of Google Voice and Google Maps. "

My Android phones have been syncing photos and calendars for years. I can't remember exactly but I am fairly certain they did it before iCloud as well.

forax• 13 years ago

The nexus 4 has the light and no-unlock summary as well. The light even changes colors depending on the app which generated the notification (e.g. facebook messages have a blue light).

dholowiski2• 13 years ago

As does my galaxy nexus. Love the color coded notification light.

untog2• 13 years ago

I still wish it was as prominent as the Nexus One's light was, though. It's never been bettered.

srlake• 13 years ago

I'm buying one.

ScottBurson• 13 years ago

I'm astonished to find myself considering one. I was sure the company was going to die.

The killer feature, for me, is that if this report is correct, they finally have an acceptable soft keyboard implementation. I'm not even that crazy about SwiftKey, but it sounds like BlackBerry have improved on it enough to compete with a physical keyboard and maybe even beat it outright.

gsharm• 13 years ago

What's interesting now is that Apple, BlackBerry and Microsoft now offer integrated hardware/software platforms. It's become similar to the way the console market has been between Sony, Nintendo, Microsoft.

Makes one wonder what's going to happen with Android.

This isn't so much vendor vs vendor. It's higher than that - the war here is between integrated/closed and discrete/open systems on the client.

The virtue re:integrated/closed systems is that the companies very survival depends on these systems, so they have the best motives in providing value/service, and aren't being steered by outside influences. The virtue re:discrete/open systems is that they encourage learning and exploration, and offer transparency.

It's not so clear in which direction things will go over coming years. Both the integrated/closed (Windows, Consoles), and discrete/open (Web, Android) are models that have proven themselves to work.

Google's doing a lot of brave work pushing in the direction of discrete/open, and regardless of outcome, it's something commendable. My only worry there is regarding their hardware partnerships. The thing with the iPhone, Lumia, and BlackBerry products is they're beautifully designed, and these designs just keep getting more refined. It's like having a games console with a controller design - all users/games know it's there, and can rely on that design, even between hardware iterations whilst other elements are improved.

Microsoft did a lot of great work getting Windows to play well with not just consumers but hardware vendors too, and more or less delivered on the promise of putting a computer on every desk. Google's probable aim of putting a smartphone in person's pocket is even loftier(expense being the main hurdle for many of the world's 7-8 billion people), yet given their positioning and partnerships, they are perhaps best positioned to deliver on this promise.

So perhaps it won't play out like the console market at all.

The thing is, if smartphones get largely commoditized by Android like PCs were largely commoditized by Windows, and you can buy something perfectly decent for $300 (and you already can in something like the Nexus 4), are going to want to or need to pay more for what is perhaps only a marginally better designed product?

And of course then there's Amazon too. Interesting times ahead.

nextparadigms2• 13 years ago

> What's interesting now is that Apple, BlackBerry and Microsoft now offer integrated hardware/software platforms. It's become similar to the way the console market has been between Sony, Nintendo, Microsoft.

You forgot Google. They have Motorola, and they are going to be highly integrated with Android, no matter what they say in public.

Also Samsung has gotten pretty integrated with Android, too. Sure they add the latest "Android features", but on their own time, and it's not the main priority for them. They'd rather ship with an older version but filled with their own apps, features and technologies. It's not that different from Amazon actually, except that they still have to adopt some standards set by Google to make sure they don't fragment to ecosystem too much, but they also get the benefit of access to the Play Store and the Android community (Amazon doesn't appeal to the Android community as much anymore).

MBCook3• 13 years ago

It will be interesting to see what happens with the Motorola acquisition.

Right now, Samsung is Android to a large degree. They're the only Android phone vendor that's actually making money, and they're selling a ton of units compared to the other vendors.

I'm amazed RIM has lasted this long. From what I've read I'm pleasantly surprised. I know there is still a small minority that refuses to own a phone without a physical keyboard, and the few I know aren't very happy with the few Android phones they've tried with keyboards. They may be able to get enough of a niche there to hold on and survive a bit.

rayiner• 13 years ago

"Open" is dead on consumer platforms. In 4-5 years, a phone/tablet OS that doesn't ship tightly integrated with specific hardware will seem like a programming language does today that doesn't ship with "batteries included."

zmmmmm4• 13 years ago

> "Open" is dead on consumer platforms.

I don't see how you can substantiate the use of present tense there. Android is arguably the biggest consumer platform ever to hit mankind, and unless you are extremely aggressive about what you mean by open it's also the most open one as well.

> In 4-5 years, a phone/tablet OS that doesn't ship tightly integrated with specific hardware will seem like a programming language does today that doesn't ship with "batteries included."

You're making a prediction here which is not based on any historical evidence. This has gone both ways over time and usually it's closed that kickstarts a revolution, then open that wins during periods of growth and consolidation and then the cycle begins again. I don't see how anyone can predict how this is going to end.

marshc1• 13 years ago

The Q10 may be the first phone I have actively desired since the Palm Pre 3 came out. As someone who really can't (won't?) transition away from a hard keyboard this is a godsend. I just wonder whether it will go down the same road as Palm/HP. Solid features and design, but a very limited ability to generate any sort of passion...

hubb• 13 years ago

Blackberry supporters keep claiming that there are innovations here. I'll echo what another poster asked: what innovations? It doesn't help their cause when articles like this one claim:

Some of BlackBerry 10’s ideas are truly ingenious. A subtle light blinks above the screen to indicate that something — a text, an e-mail message, voice mail, a Facebook post — is waiting for you

Yep. Just like my 3 year old Nexus One.

CaveTech• 13 years ago

Except this has actually been a blackberry feature for years. I'm not sure why this is being advertised as a BB10 feature. I had this 6 years ago on my blackberry phone.

rescripting2• 13 years ago

I'll repost the working list that I posted above: True Multitasking, Blackberry Balance, Timeshift Camera, Physical Keyboard, Hub, Browser built in HTML5, Mobile Screen Sharing...

This article doesn't do the best job of highlighting (or even mentioning) some of these innovations. I get the feeling the author just likes the blinking light (even if it's already been done).

dholowiski2• 13 years ago

Not sure why everyone is in love with Blackberry again all of the sudden. It seems like they've launched a feature complete smart phone, but they're all pretty much commodity features now, and certainly anything new they've innovated will be copied by the others within a few months. Who in their right mind would buy a blackberry?

And don't say business, because most sysadmins (myself included) already have plans to move off the Blackberry platform (and have fantasies about the day they can KILL their BES server).

This is all very reminiscent of the whole Palm treo debacle.

Blackberry is dead. Please let it RIP.

nestlequ1k• 13 years ago

It's now the underdog. Who doesn't want to root for the underdog?

With Palm Pre out of the equation now, Microsoft continuing to be a piece of crap, I'm rooting for RIM to be the solid 3rd choice.

DigitalSea2• 13 years ago

Are you failing to remember Apple was once in a position in the early 90's when people were calling for the company to die already? In investors eyes as well as the general public's eyes, Apple had no hope and now look at them. Blackberry have released a phenomenal phone, arguably one of the best smartphones to come along in a very long time.

Just because you're planning on moving from the Blackberry platform doesn't mean everyone else is. Unless you speak for the general system administrator crowd, you're making baseless assumptions. And this is nothing like the Palm Treo debacle, Blackberry have not only developed a powerful and beautiful operating system but have built a phone that is of a much higher standard than Apple's increasingly irrelevant phones. Blackberry have just stepped up their A-game, nobody could have released a better phone than this at this point in time, not even Apple.

thedrbrian2• 13 years ago

>Just because you're planning on moving from the Blackberry platform doesn't mean everyone else is. Unless you speak for the general system administrator crowd, you're making baseless assumptions. And this is nothing like the Palm Treo debacle, Blackberry have not only developed a powerful and beautiful operating system but have built a phone that is of a much higher standard than Apple's increasingly irrelevant phones. Blackberry have just stepped up their A-game, nobody could have released a better phone than this at this point in time, not even Apple.

Apple irrelevant? Really. As for the quality of the new blackberrys the verge gave the best one a 7 out of 10.

thinkmorebetter2• 13 years ago

"increasingly irrelevant phones" that somehow keep selling more every year.

http://news.cnet.com/8301-13579_3-57565106-37/iphone-wins-51...

cunac• 13 years ago

what you had planned is irrelevant because business will be willing to pay for BES infrastructure for a while

sigzero2• 13 years ago

The proof will be in the apps.

zmmmmm4• 13 years ago

I think the question is not really whether BB10 is good enough to succeed, but whether any single-vendor operating system can enter the market now. There are so many separate players all with their own interests that need to be served - carriers, retailers, businesses, 3rd party app developers, etc. Almost none of those parties have a true interest in blackberry succeeding (beyond the anemic reason that 'more competition is good'). A device can be the greatest thing on earth, unless it generates overwhelming consumer demand all those 3rd party interests will prevent it ever becoming a huge hit. They will tolerate it but they won't push it like they push the OSes that work in their interests - and this is why Android works - everyone up and down the chain gets a cut. Unless BB10 figures out a way for that to happen, it just doesn't matter how good it is.

edouard1234567• 13 years ago

"whether any single-vendor operating system can enter the market now" I'm not you can say they are entering the market now...

joejohnson• 13 years ago

That Time Shift photo feature does sound brilliant! I really want to try that out.

The BlackBerry, Rebuilt, Lives to Fight Another Day

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