IKEA launches new smart home range with 21 Matter-compatible products

https://www.ikea.com/global/en/newsroom/retail/the-new-smart-home-from-ikea-matter-compatible-251106/

by lemoine0461 • 9 months ago

346 233 9 months ago

63stack• 9 months ago

I have never heard of Matter before, but I was super satisfied with Ikea's zigbee products. Does anyone know why they switched?

frenchtoast8• 9 months ago

It’s less of a switch and more of an upgrade. The hub will continue to work with Zigbee devices, it just adds Matter support to those devices you already have.

wlesieutre• 9 months ago

Might be an upgrade if you're using devices through Ikea's hub, but if you've been buying Ikea's zigbee devices for use with some other zigbee network it's a bummer that you won't be able to get them anymore.

Even if you're all in Ikea's ecosystem it will still mean whatever new devices you add from now on are a separate mesh network and can't use the existing zigbee products as repeaters. If the next thing you want to add is at the far end of your house from the hub, it won't have reception there with Matter until you put other new devices in between.

pta20025• 9 months ago

It’s a newer standard backed by multiple vendors (importantly, Apple, Google and Amazon, who make the devices that you ultimately want to use to control these things).

Zigbee is great for communication instead of WiFi, but it’s just one part of the equation - it says nothing about the specific commands a device will respond to. You couldn’t pair a Philips remote with an IKEA lightbulb.

Matter attempts to fix it by actually defining the protocol that these devices use. It’s also fully local and open source, which is great. The actual transport layer can be WiFi, but it can also be Thread, which is a newer standard based off Zigbee, and AFAIK some Zigbee controllers can be reprogrammed to support it.

They don’t specify what transport layer they are using here, but considering the kind of devices they are showing (battery-powered remotes) it’s almost definitely Thread.

noir_lord• 9 months ago

Matter is definitely a step in the right direction, SDK is under Apache and the actual spec is freely available[1]

Might give it a year or three and if they continue on that path I might have to reasses my "No smart devices in the house" "rule".

[1] https://csa-iot.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/11/22-27349-001_...

milliams• 9 months ago

https://www.theverge.com/tech/814928/ikea-matter-thread-diri... has some quotes from IKEA saying that they're using Thread. It's strange they didn't say in this release though.

teamonkey3• 9 months ago

The way I understand it (please correct me) is that:

* The old Ikea Zigbee products will remain Zigbee. They will still require a Zigbee coordinator.

* The new products will be Matter-over-Thread. They require a Thread coordinator (or whatever the Thread equivalent is called).

* The existing Ikea hub has had a firmware upgrade that allows it to be simultaneously a Zigbee and Thread coordinator.

* The Ikea hub adds a Matter compatibility layer to the devices that don't natively support Matter.

acheron• 9 months ago

“Backed by Google” is an anti-recommendation.

close044• 9 months ago

Zigbee is the wireless network protocol. The equivalent to it on the Matter side is called Thread, also based on Zigbee from what I read (was developed by Connectivity Standards Alliance, formerly known as Zigbee Alliance). Zigbee and Thread operate at OSI L1-3, Matter is L3/4-7.

Matter is a communication protocol adopted by a lot of manufacturers but I think practically for the buyer the real benefit is that you no longer need a bucket of hubs for each of the device ecosystems one might use. It's more future proof so it makes sense IKEA would add support for it in their hardware including existing hubs I believe.

darkwater2• 9 months ago

You never needed a bucket of hubs with things like zigbee2mqtt or the Zigbee implementation in Home Assistant. That's enough a proof that the issue was not in the protocol. Actualyl you can also pair between them different vendors products (i.e. Ikea remote with Philips bulbs)

whitehexagon4• 9 months ago

some background:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44507971

WaitWaitWha2• 9 months ago

Vendor lock in.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45658056

edit: Feel free to down but the evidence is in the products.

Zigbee will work with any other Zigbee device if it is properly implemented. not so with Thread.

RealStickman_• 9 months ago

Please enlighten me how the ip-network-using mattress in any way relates to a Matter and Thread network

torginus9• 9 months ago

It's an application layer standard that describes how devices should present themselves and present information and accept control signals in a standard way.

It can run over Wifi or Thread which provides the physical interface and networking support.

In contrast Zigbee defines both the application layer and the networking.

moshib• 9 months ago

IKEA's Zigbee devices have been some of the more stable smart devices I owned. I wasn't running their hub, opting to run with deCONZ in the past and moving to Zigbee2MQTT in recent years.

I do wish the new range would include blinds; the previous generation (FYRTUR) is out of production, and it doesn't seem like there's a replacement yet.

metadat• 9 months ago

Fwiw, Smartwings blinds are cost effective and have worked great for me for years now. Cone in both z-wave and zig flavors.

cromka• 9 months ago

US brand only.

scosman2• 9 months ago

Word on reddit is they discontinued the blinds due to reliability problems. I have 3 and 1 failed so makes sense to me. They want to bring them back, but it's a complete redesign, not just normal planned product lifecycle iteration.

ericd3• 9 months ago

I hope they make them quieter this time!

deanc• 9 months ago

Using the blinds with a second gen hub now for about four years. No problems at all. Dreading the day they fail as they’re non-negotiable during the summer.

bjoli2• 9 months ago

The open/close sensors have been amazing.

yborg• 9 months ago

The FYRTUR blinds were kinda crap, constantly had issues with them losing their minds and having to redo the setup. I also have the later Tredansen cellular shades, and those have been good ... but I just checked and those seem to be discontinued as well.

Perils of being early adopter, but kind of soured on the whole smart home concept unless you are wealthy enough to redo all of your home lighting and window treatments every 10 years. Apart from the effort, it creates yet more e-waste. I have 30+ year old manual window shades and lamps and they all still work.

zamalek2• 9 months ago

constantly had issues with them losing their minds and having to redo the setup

I forked out for SmartWings blinds. You can choose between either Zigbee/Matter or Z-Wave (or neither I think?). The first-party hub is completely optional (that's important to look out for with Zigbee, which can be vendor-locked). They are drastically simpler than the average motorized blinds I've seen around, so I haven't had any of the mechanical failure nightmares. Pretty happy overall; though I haven't had them for 10 years.

I do use them as a kind of alarm clock as I am absolutely horrific with mornings, so manual ones wouldn't really work out for me.

bobchadwick• 9 months ago

Huh, I have the entire second story of my house outfitted with FYRTUR shades and the only one that sometimes gives me problems is the one that crashed to the floor when the 3M tape holding it up failed. (Don't get me started on Andersen windows having no way to secure inside-mount shades without voiding your warranty.) That one seems to eat through its battery far more quickly that the others. All the rest of the ten or so shades work flawlessly with ZHA in Home Assistant.

FireBeyond• 9 months ago

Yeah, I have a Dirigera hub, motion sensors and lights running pretty stably. I connect them into HomeKit via HomeBridge and it's been solid.

I was also somewhat impressed, and happy, that the Dirigera supported the older (I think discontinued now) Tradfri devices rather than making you replace things.

warp• 9 months ago

I installed some IKEA bulbs and switches with the IKEA dirigera hub, and had a terrible time. For example a LED strip lost connection a few times, and wouldn't connect on its own without unplugging/plugging.

I replaced the hub with a Home Assistant Green with ZHA, and I haven't had any issues since.

So in my experience each of the devices seem fine over Zigbee, but the hub doesn't seem verify good.

makemake_kbo• 9 months ago

same! i have my apt fully decked out in ikea zigbee devices. i really want them to do blinds again

upsuper2• 9 months ago

I have quite different observations. IKEA's Zigbee devices are the least stable devices I own and with smaller feature set.

For example, I have more than a dozen Zigbee smart outlet around my home, and the IKEA one is the only one that ever hang and became uncontrollable, yet its also the only one without a physical button to toggle and without power monitoring.

One of IKEA's Zigbee remote controls I have also regularly drops connection and I have to remove its battery to reset it from time to time.

The ones I bought from AliExpress of unknown brands are, unfortunately, much cheaper, have more functionalities, and more reliable.

daza• 9 months ago

What brands from AliExpress can you recommend?

embedding-shape2• 9 months ago

Does this mean they're abandoning Zigbee compatibility? In my experience, Ikea was making the most reliable Zigbee devices considering the price (as someone who just uses Zigbee and no Ikea hubs, just HA+Zigbee), and would be a shame to lose that, but maybe it's a clear sign I should investigate starting to use Matter more instead?

j454• 9 months ago

Investigate using home assistant and keep using both from one place.

james-bcn• 9 months ago

Isn't Matter derived from Zigbee?

devttyeu2• 9 months ago

Both use 802.15.4 but iiuc zigbee does that with some incompatibilities.

gorbypark2• 9 months ago

Yes and no. Zigbee is both the transport and the protocol, whereas Matter is a protocol but can run over different transports. Most common in Thread or WiFi, but it could be over ethernet or anything else, really. I would say Matter is not derived from zigbee, but Thread could be considered a derivative.

jeroenhd• 9 months ago

The new Dirigera hub supports both for now (https://www.ikea.com/gb/en/customer-service/knowledge/articl...) so they'll probably slowly transition.

It depends on your setup how easy it would be, but the Zigbee stick I use for controlling Ikea stuff also has firmware available for using it with Matter. There's a good chance whatever IoT solution you use can be hooked up to Matter.

bluGill• 9 months ago

Matter is now a standard not just a common spec. Everyone should demand all new smart home devices support matter. (it is okay if you use Zigbee or some other alternative to control it today but you should still demand matter for the day you switch - that day should come)

In particular note the bane of all smart homes: if you have to move the next owner won't have a clue what you did. In the worst case you have to hire an electrician (no DIY allowed since it isn't your house anymore) to rip that out so your house is livable. If you are using matter there is a chance they can start using your system in their own way. The more matter takes off the more likely this is. Also the more likely others will use it - perhaps you next house will have matter installed for you and so you can just automate it where you want to instead of rewiring the house first.

guerrilla2• 9 months ago

So, right now I use a Zigbee dongle on my a Raspberry Pi. Is that goimg to be possible with Matter?

vollbrecht• 9 months ago

A standard where you have to pay to play. Cheapest option is 3000$ per product and 500$ annual.

ocdtrekkie2• 9 months ago

Definitely will not be buying Matter stuff. Way too complicated, doesn't address the real problems in smarthome technology.

I usually take my smart devices with me when I move. It's a pretty expensive thing to leave behind for a new owner that probably won't use it anyways. If someone offered me extra to leave them I might and then I'd also leave a manual.

kyriakos• 9 months ago

you can get a Zigbee / Matter / Thread coordinator and continue using HA as before (google SMLIGHT)

nerdjon• 9 months ago

Is there an article that has the US pricing anywhere? It doesn't look like any of these are on the US site yet so I am curious what these will actually cost.

I keep hoping that Ikea would come up with something that can go over a switch to manually control it. Seems like it would be very much within Ikea's target market (renters). There are devices like this on Amazon but having used them in the past they are finicky at best.

conception• 9 months ago

When I rented I just replaced things and kept them in a box and put everything back when I left.

whitehexagon4• 9 months ago

The ZigBee range used to include a bulb and remote, so you just leave the mains switch on.

Otherwise, I used floor lights in the past with WiFi switchable sockets before I switched to ZigBee. The WiFi ones wanted to dial home.

Mistletoe3• 9 months ago

Tangential but I was wondering if anyone knows of a thermostat that can work with a security system for the most simple and accurate location sensing possible- when I press away on the alarm it turns the HVAC to eco type settings to save energy. I used to get this with Google Nest and location sensing from my phone but Google as always is killing my generation of Nest thermostat. I think I’d like to get away from location sensing entirely. Every time I leave the house I do the alarm, so that is all I need.

ramses0• 9 months ago

Certainly there's something with home assistant (or apple shortcuts) you can do? There's some nest firmware replacement that's a bit DIY, but HomeAssistant and friends will be the way to bridge between differing home automation bits/services.

j454• 9 months ago

Check out ecobee. It should set away mode how you need.

Mistletoe3• 9 months ago

Oh interesting didn’t know they made security systems too.

Loic2• 9 months ago

If you are retrofitting a complete house at the same time, look at KNX. If not, do not explore this rabbit hole.

kevstev• 9 months ago

Can be relatively simple inside of Home Assistant. I have my alarm attached to Konnected, and that has an HA integration. I can both arm and disarm my alarm through an HA dashboard, and also have it arm itself if both myself and the wife are out of the house. You may not even need the alarm integration part- you can just use the home/away functionality and set the thermostat. The thermostat integration part I am less sure about, just because I haven't used it, but it should be fairly easy to set the set temps based on your home/away status.

Of course you need Home Assistant set up for this, but if you are interested in these types of things, it will be very useful.

carderne2• 9 months ago

What “hub” thing do I need to use this? I use an iPhone but really just want to use some physical remote switches.

I currently use Home Assistant but want to shift to something more “mass market” as I’m bored of being family tech support.

k33l0r• 9 months ago

An Apple TV or HomePod mini, if you want to stay within the Apple ecosystem…

fundatus• 9 months ago

You could get an IKEA Dirigera, but one of the upsides of Matter is that you do not need the manufacturers hub anymore. So an Apple Homepod or a Home Assistant instance with a Thread stick will do as well! (Or any other Matter hub for that matter of course)

petepete• 9 months ago

I use an IKEA Dirigera, which speaks both Zigbee and Matter.

kps2• 9 months ago

For some degree of future-proofing you'll definitely want a device with a Thread radio.

(I've done paid work on Matter so I'll avoid giving possibly-tainted opinions on any particular vendor's products.)

thedougd3• 9 months ago

You're looking for a Thread border gateway. Lots of stuff already has it. Someone mentioned AppleTV and HomePod mini. Newer Google Nest speakers/displays have it as well.

But you can do it with just Home Assistant and a Thread radio: https://www.home-assistant.io/integrations/thread#turning-ho...

Personally, I pair my wifi and Thread matter devices to my Apple Home, as each Apple TV behaves as a redundant, ethernet connected gateway. I then do a secondary pairing to Home Assistant and Google Home. Local control and it works very well.

carderne2• 9 months ago

Is it absolutely necessary to have a base/gateway? This Verge article[0] seems to imply not, but it's not at all clear to me what I lose.

If I just want a smart switch that controls a smart light, can I do that without a hub? Can I use my phone to control that light/switch in a pinch? I'm not averse to spending $100 or whatever, but it's just more _stuff_ that I'd rather not think about.

[0] "Apple now lets you add Matter devices to Apple Home without a hub" https://www.theverge.com/2024/9/18/24246581/ios18-matter-sma...

insane_dreamer• 9 months ago

Can't Matter devices connect directly to Apple HomeKit? So if you have a HomePod (or even a MiniPod though I'm not sure) it should connect all these Ikea devices too.

AndrewDucker2• 9 months ago

Excellent.

I have some Thread/Matter smart bulbs, and they work well, but Ikea joining in shows that it's finally ready for the mass market.

LeafItAlone• 9 months ago

Their new smart plugs finally seem reasonably sized. I love IKEA’s smart home products, but their smart plugs (and many of their device power plugs) are comically sized in the US. Their original US version of the TRÅDFRI plugs wouldn’t even allow for two to be plugged into the same (standard size) dual wall outlet. Their more recent TRETAKT is much better, but still larger than competitors.

ifh-hn• 9 months ago

I've never really got the smart home thing, and the shit being pulled with the likes of "smart" TVs and cars has really put me off any sort of network connected device I can't control.

How would you use this and ensure privacy and security? Without investing time in becoming an amateur network engineer?

kristofferR5• 9 months ago

That's half the point, these are using local communication (Matter over Thread) and are not cloud based. Privacy by default

tokioyoyo2• 9 months ago

Easy — you’re not their target demographics. Almost all of my friends have some sort of “smart” devices, and I’ve helped personally to install them when things were a bit annoying (Spotify not syncing, dhcp not working properly and etc.). Absolutely not a single person cared about the “privacy and security” issue.

kristofferR5• 9 months ago

That's just untrue, these are the exact products a privacy conscious demographic would/should buy.

microtonal5• 9 months ago

You can have both, Zigbee/Z-Wave devices are really easy to set up and they are purely local.

Libidinalecon• 9 months ago

I know I am not. I am such a luddite that I just can't understand solving the triviality of flipping a light switch.

It seems like something for bored, married people.

delecti• 9 months ago

It's not that complicated to get, some of them have useful features.

It's just a personal tradeoff between features, downsides, and risks. Most people don't consider the risks at all (implicitly down-weighting that factor), and the value assigned to the features and downsides varies by person. I have some smart lights, because I like the convenience of those lights being on voice control. My TV is "smart" but doesn't get internet because I don't consider the risk of ads acceptable.

buckle8017• 9 months ago

ZigBee, Thread, and Matter are all locally controlled if you have a local controller that is controlled locally.

You'll still end up being an amateur network engineer though.

microtonal5• 9 months ago

I don't have much experience with Thread + Matter (except the only device I have, an upgraded Eve Energy being a PITA), but for Zigbee/Z-Wave you do not have to be an amateur network engineer. Pairing is really straightforward and devices will automatically mesh and get routed by most mains-powered Zigbee/Z-Wave devices. It's not like you have to set up DHCP, manage an IP address range or anything like it.

kobalsky• 9 months ago

running home assistant on a raspberry with a zigbee usb hub is a weekend project and it gives you full control of your devices, you don't need internet access or any cloud subscription to control them.

seanalltogether• 9 months ago

As someone who is a bit of a luddite when it comes to smart home features, there are 2 things that really stand out to me that i would like.

1. Open/Close sensors, I would like to put sensors on my shed door and side gates that can tell me if they are open or closed. I will occassionally leave these open, or the kids may leave them open and would prefer they be closed each night. It's impossible for me to tell if they are closed at the moment without stepping outside.

2. Smart plugs. Being able to remotely operate / schedule plugs to shut off or on seems pretty nice. Outdoor lights being one usecase. Kids media area is another.

thedougd3• 9 months ago

I use YoLink products for #1. LoRA radio based with 1/4 mile range and low power consumption. I have one on my shed door. Frequently on sale at Amazon.

magixx• 9 months ago

Open/Close sensors + lights (and optionally luminance sensor) is what I find to be useful. When I open my home door the light turns on automatically if it's dark enough.

teamonkey3• 9 months ago

It seems like you have a strong enough use case to justify it!

I started with similar needs and thought it would be frivolous, but now I find it genuinely useful and can’t believe I waited so long.

astronads• 9 months ago

The solution is home assistant [0] it lets you manage and control all kinds of smart devices with a lot of customizable, hackable things. And it runs locally, so if you buy the right types of devices that don’t phone home to the cloud (or you shitcan their internet access) you can fully manage your own system.

[0] https://www.home-assistant.io/

microtonal5• 9 months ago

Or if you want something more of an appliance, some other Hubs with Zigbee, Z-Wave, and Thread + Matter support are: Homey Pro, Homey Bridge, Aeotec SmartThings Hub, and Hubitat.

I only have experience with the first three (besides Home Assistant) and they work very well (though the SmartThings hub is somewhat limited when it comes to device support, graphing, etc.).

I should also mention that with Homey Bridge the dashboard is in their cloud, though the Zigbee/Z-Wave devices are fully local. Homey Pro is also local. (I think they have a Homey Pro Mini in the US now.)

rpcope1• 9 months ago

any sort of network connected device I can't control. How would you use this and ensure privacy and security?

This was exactly the nice thing about Zigbee (and Z-Wave). They're not IP networks, they basically just work with any hub, and have no way of phoning home at all. You can use them with Home Assistant or other open source tools or write your own stack if you wanted. The thing that really blows about the switch to matter, is that it is IP based, and it looks like vendors will have another opportunity to tie specific functionality to their own hubs (and probably find a way to exfiltrate telemetry). There really wasn't anything wrong with Zigbee or Z-wave that couldn't be fixed in incremental protocol revisions (IMHO), but they don't generate money the way WiFi devices collecting telemetry or hardware churn for the sake of hardware churn does.

jabroni_salad• 9 months ago

Before buying any IOT devices, see if you can download the firmware from the manufacturer's website. If you can't, do not buy that product.

I like Shelly's doodads. They are easy to work with, you can flash their firmware with an alternative if you want (Tasamota is popular). They have a decent onboard scheduler and the only app you need is a web browser pointed at its IP address. They don't need internet access.

whitehexagon4• 9 months ago

Although I have been trying to only buy 'needs' not 'wants' recently, I did stockpile a few IKEA ZigBee gadgets before they retired them. One of the few product lines their MBA's hadn't destroyed.

I was working on some Golang code, talking to them via the very open ConBee II ZigBee gateway. Great fun, and very fast once I got subscribe vs polling working. So now I get an SMS for door access, but kinda hopefully never for a water leak.

No interest in yet another 'standard', especially since Matter seems to mandate PKI device attestation. ZigBee just feels more open to me, and I have enough eWaste devices with expired certificates.

mongol• 9 months ago

Will zigbee2mqtt be able to talk to these? Or are they in a fully different type of network? If not, any other software that can do MQTT bridging with these?

kiney• 9 months ago

sadly not, and afaik they don't plan on adding matter support. Thats a big reason I'll stick with zigbee for now.

martin_a• 9 months ago

I find pairing my IKEA bulbs and switches and whatnot to my Conbee 2 stick sometimes hard to do.

I'm thinking about buying a Dirigera hub instead, using that for the IKEA devices and using the Conbee stick only for non-IKEA products.

Does that work flawlessly when being controlled via HA or are there other issues to be expected?

edit: Maybe even ditch the Conbee stick after all, build some ESPHome devices as replacements (temperature/humidty - or wait for the IKEA version of that).

whitehexagon4• 9 months ago

Agreed. I had no problem with the conBee II itself, but it did take me a while to figure out different IKEA ZigBee devices required different 'secret handshakes' to tigger pairing. eg number of button presses within a second, I think one was 5x, another 4x, and lights were different again. Still, I prefered that hasle than having a hub dialling home.

But it was pretty stable once it was setup. Just occasional reboot on the rPI but I think that was my flakey SMS gateway code.

loufe• 9 months ago

I just bought an AirGradient sensor and set up home assistant. What an absolute joy, both experiences (though I had issues building AirGradient's firmware due to some issues on their end, to their credit their dev team told me they're going to adopt my recommendations) are streamlined and professional and super easy to set up for a techie. I've already got in the habit of opening the window to the office as the sensor detects elevated CO2 (happens faster and more often than expected, very glad I invested).

However, I also bought a 3 SCD41 sensors and ESP32 C3 Superminis from the most reputable sellers on AliExpress, that's been an abject failure. I wanted additional sensors in other rooms less at risk, and wanted to try using ESPHome and putting together my own soldered little devices. Got counterfeit sensors (no laser engraving on the side as Sensiron indicates is without reception the case in genuine parts) and either counterfeit or defective microcontrollers (cannot connect to wifi, even 2.4GHz WPA2, a common enough problem from my research with ). The spread from reputable sellers in NA was absolutely ridiculous and worse then buying premade pieces by a large margin.

All to say, as fun as DIY is, I'm grateful to have trustworthy products available affordably. I'll still block internet access and leave them on a dedicated IoT VLAN, but I can at least not worry it's going to incorrectly label the air quality for a child's bedroom. I'll probably pick up 3 of the CO2 sensors from IKEA, if reviews look good.

bjoli2• 9 months ago

I really hope that is CO2 and not eCO2.

scosman2• 9 months ago

I suggest the SenseAir sensors. They don't seem as susceptible to fakes, and auto calibrate when exposed to fresh air. Supported by ESP home so build is simple.

Any evidence the Ikea sensor are actual CO2 censors and not just cheap "eCO2" sensors? Lots of the "CO2" censors our there are just cheap VOC censors with an calculation to estimate CO2.

exabrial• 9 months ago

I'm not investing in any smart home products unless:

* I can fully control them without the cloud on a non-internet connected network

* I can either pay for updates, or they have free updates for at least 12 years, ideally 15

If a hurricane or tornado strikes, or some dictator tries to tell me what I can and can't do, my devices need to remain under my command.

nixgeek2• 9 months ago

These are all Matter-over-Thread and meet your requirements, yay!

davidmurdoch• 9 months ago

Elegrp switches can be used offline. They need to be provisioned online first though, unless you flash with esphome (which can't currently be done wirelessly), but then you'll have to write a custom integration config.

Pros: very inexpensive, and they look great. Cons: WiFi/ble only, they feel cheap, dimmers don't support a "transition" comment, so you cant dim over time easily.

culebron21• 9 months ago

I have accumulated so much smart-stuff fatigue, I can't stand anything branded as "smart". This means, as you point out, 1) any outage in the chain between me and the vendor's app shuts everything down for me, 2) stuff behaves inconsistently all the time. (e.g. Bluetooth speakers with a smartphone/tablet player app -- every other time something goes wrong: the app frozen completely because search autocomplete lost packets; you can't find the damn playlist buried in a sea of features; another your device wakes up and steals the bluetooth speakers.)

Regarding the electric switches, I was fond of bypass switches (where you can turn on/off by flipping any of the switches connected to a lamp) and made a lot of them in my apartments. Turned out not all of them were needed. I didn't need much control at home, e.g. I don't need to control the lighting above the kitchen desk when I'm not in front of it.

Wifi switches allow a lot of freedom in positioning and re-positioning them, but they escalate everything to the unreliable realm of IP/internet devices. I'd probably vote for a controller on a lamp, and switches not actually inerrupting 230V~, but be connected with a thin and flat 12V= bus, and just signalling, and hence be easy to put under wallpapers. (5V= would be hard to send further than 3 metres.)

torginus9• 9 months ago

Modern smart switches are pretty small (most of them are designed to fit into wall sockets behind plugs/light switches).

I personally think relays are a much more reliable than solid state switches and are very unlikely to fail in a dangerous way, and fully interupt the circuit, but they do have a 'click' some people dislike, and have a lifetime of 100k-ish switches, so for an application where you keep switching rapidly (e.g. not light switches), this might be a problem.

Ikea used Thread and Zigbee which are not Wifi, they use a mesh network and don't suffer from saturation the way Wifi does, in fact adding more devices tends to make the network more reliable since devices can route around failing or congested nodes.

I've had good experience with them in practice, but do be mindful that they share the 2.4GHz band with Wifi so in an apt building, you might run into radio channel congestion.

Personally I use smart home stuff for controlling heating devices and a few other key items, I don't think it makes sense to make every light switch smart, but technically people have done so and it tends to work all right.

Loic2• 9 months ago

Currently renovating our house, everything will be KNX based. Offline, no servers needed (even within the house) but nice for visualization, standard, 500+ vendors of compatible hardware. Highly recommended.

kleiba• 9 months ago

Also currently renovating our house, will not put any smart home stuff in it at all.

torginus9• 9 months ago

All previous Zigbee and current Thread devices are physically incapable of connecting to the internet - the hub they talk to might, but since these are standardized (Matter and/or Zigbee define standard protocols for devices like this), you wont have problems picking another hub.

As for software updates, they can be updated, but these devices are so simple they can be reasonably bug free after a while - and security's not a concern (that much) since they don't really have internet access.

Some devices were known to have vulnearbilities where the attacker was physically present to get in radio contact with the device, but those are pretty rare and impossible to exploit en masse.

Ajedi324• 9 months ago

I realize Thread devices need a border router, but once they're connected to that router don't they get an IPv6 address with internet access? Or am I just misunderstanding the protocol?

close044• 9 months ago

the hub they talk to might, but since these are standardized (Matter and/or Zigbee define standard protocols for devices like this), you wont have problems picking another hub.

For Matter (regardless of network connectivity - WiFi, Ethernet, or Thread) this is part of the certification, the devices must be controllable locally and without internet connectivity at least for basic or core functions.

For Zigbee there's no such thing. Zigbee is the network protocol and the manufacturers usually implemented whatever communication protocol they wanted on top. This is why my Tado thermostats that communicate with the hub over Zigbee aren't compatible with any other hub and need the cloud connectivity even when integrated with HA [0][1].

[0] https://www.home-assistant.io/integrations/tado/

[1] https://www.home-assistant.io/blog/2016/02/12/classifying-th...

gerdesj• 9 months ago

That is my approach. It requires quite a few components to work:

* Multiple VLANs - segregate devices - I usually have two for IoT devices: "THINGS" and "SEWER" * Router/firewall segregation * Home Assistant * etc

So my doorbell has a camera and I run the likes of Frigate or Zoneminder. It is PoE and also has a chime relay. It will still ring if the network goes down.

I am gradually migrating my home light switches to zwave ones. They will still work, regardless of HA being up.

My car (EV) and utility provider (Octopus) and so on are getting complicated and have multiple apps. I have a single Home Assistant box that manages all of that lot.

All of that is quite complicated. I'm an IT consultant with 30 years experience but a novice can go quite far already and it will get better.

thedougd3• 9 months ago

I really wish wall switches and dimmers were included in the first drop. I've long been in the market for affordable Matter over Thread switches with a matte white finish from a reliable vendor.

They need to cover all the categories too (single, multi-pole, dimmer, and maybe fan speed) so I know I won't end up with a hodge podge of brands and looks.

I'll keep holding out.

nixgeek2• 9 months ago

Is anyone aware of or working on an equivalent to zigbee2mqtt but for both Matter-over-WiFi and Matter-over-Thread devices?

It’s so darn convenient to have MQTT in the picture for home automation and my #1 challenge in imagining a future world past my 400+ ZigBee devices is what replaces zigbee2mqtt and has a similar “owner experience”.

Maxious• 9 months ago

https://github.com/matter-js/matter.js has a MQTT example for familiarity but the intention is that devices just communicate over UDP

gniv• 9 months ago

Do any of these devices alert when the electricity is cut? I never hear talk about this but I had this happen -- power went out while I was on vacation and I didn't figure it out until much later when I tried to cook some of the food from the freezer.

macNchz• 9 months ago

There are many options for simple digital refrigerator/freezer thermometers that will show you a historical maximum, for that particular issue, some of which have smart integrations. There are also "maximum-registering" analog thermometers with a little indicator that gets pushed along as the needle goes up, then stays in place when it drops again.

jjkaczor• 9 months ago

Still looking for a good "smart stove" for the mother-in-law who is showing early stages of Alzheimer's/dementia, but in complete denial and will not seek medical advice. So, I need something to be able to monitor it, turn it off, etc. LG or Samsung seem to be the only games in-town - I have also looked at a smart-plug capable of 220v, but - that "all-or-nothing" may be overkill.

rkomorn2• 9 months ago

An induction stove doesn't answer your monitoring needs, but it's probably the safest thing to cook with. Only heats up when there's a pan, not prone to fires, ours even complains loudly if something unexpected is happening (eg lots of spilled liquid).

jonplackett• 9 months ago

Every induction stove I’ve ever used though, was designed by someone who either has never heard of human interface design, or has done and entirely hates the concept of it.

Eg, buttons so close to the heating element that they hurt to press

Buttons to turn it off that only work when dry, places near where a spill would go.

Buttons you have to press up to 10 times just to get it to a reasonable heat.

Why does induction also have to equal no buttons, and no dials?

kristofferR5• 9 months ago

Isn't a stove/cooker guard actually what you're looking for?

They're legally mandated in Norway, there's already a big section of them, some have Zigbee, like this one:

https://www.firefence.org/ https://www.bekkelund.net/2024/02/19/firefence-komfyrvakt/

I'm sure there are products in other markets too.

poisonborz2• 9 months ago

For the power user, I don't see much that Matter/Thread offers over Zigbee. The "unified command protocol" is not much of a problem with attentive device selection (and for chinese products there is Tuya) and as for Thread, it's not dramatically better. There were debates around this 4+ years ago, and will be 4+ years from now. The standard is out forever, search any marketplace, you will find that Zigbee/Wifi outnumber Matter devices 10:1.

notatoad3• 9 months ago

For the power user

i don't think it does, or that it's even trying to. the problem it's trying to solve isn't the power user who's already got a home assistant server running. matter/thread is for the person who buys cheap smart home products off amazon and ends up with a half-dozen poorly-translated proprietary apps on their phone to manage it all.

poisonborz2• 9 months ago

Another take: what does it offer companies? They don't really want interoperability. Google, Apple, Alexa are the gravitational forces, and most mainstream devices already support them. Matter makes device maker's platform/own device portfolio aspirations weaker.

embedding-shape2• 9 months ago

There were debates around this 4+ years ago, and will be 4+ years from now. The standard is out forever, search any marketplace

The submission you're commenting on seems to indicate some movement at least, from a very large company that seems to be moderately popular already because of built-in Zigbee support. So if anything, the tides are somewhat turning, but as always with standards, it takes a long time for end-user products to actually appear on the market.

Eduard• 9 months ago

that same vendor IKEA has also abandoned Zigbee after their support of a few years.

AdmiralAsshat2• 9 months ago

So what's the skinny with Matter devices? I was potentially looking into one so that I could plug my Moccamaster into a smart timer (wonderful coffee maker, but the lack of programmable functionality has my wife constantly wanting to pull out our old Ninja), and I liked what I read about Matter. But it would be my first Matter device and I started to get discouraged when the documentation said I would need to purchase a Matter "hub" or something to act as the controller, so I held off.

notatoad3• 9 months ago

the skinny with all smart home tech is that if you try to get by without a hub of some sort, you're signing up for endless frustration.

can you use a dumb timer instead of a smart one? if you just want to set a schedule, there's no need for an internet connection there.

AdmiralAsshat2• 9 months ago

I probably could. The challenge came from wanting it to turn on at different times on different days (basically whether my wife is going into the office or working remotely on a given day), so once we started getting into wanting different schedules for M/F, T/W/Th, and S/S, the programmable one just seemed like the way to go, particularly if I wanted to easily turn off a day on-demand.

tzs2• 9 months ago

You may already have a Matter controller. For WiFi Matter devices you may be able to use your smartphone.

For iPhones (and iPads) just make sure you have OS version 18. They actually added Matter controller functionality in 16.1 but many people found it very flakey. Before 18 when I tried it I got my smart plug (Tapo TP15) connected and it worked fine for something like a day and then disappeared, and then I was never able to get it connected again. Even after telling the phone to forget the device and doing a factory reset on the plug I could not get the phone to see it. 18 on other hand has been fine.

For Android phones you need at least Android 8.1 and Google Play services 22.48.14 or later and Bluetooth Low Energy (BLE) 4.2 or later. That's what the net tells me--I do not have any direct experience with Android. The net is also telling me that you really want Android 12 because Matter support was not as stable in earlier versions.

From the name Matter controller and the diagrams in many explanations of how Matter works people tend to get the impression that a Matter controller is kind of like the WiFi router on your WiFi network: some dedicated device which you generally only have one of.

To see why that is not the case it is helpful to look at what a Matter controller actually does. (The general idea is right in what follows, but I'm sure I've botched some details that don't affect the overall points).

When you start out with a brand new Matter device and power it up the device will come up ready to be paired with its first controller. The controller and the device communicate using BLE, but the device will only talk to a controller that has a code that is hardwired into the device. That's what is in the QR code that is usually printed on the device or its packaging or a slip of paper in the package.

The controller and the device use that code to establish a secure communications channel over BLE. The controller gives the device WiFi connection information and gives it a certificate that can be used to verify that future communication over WiFi is with that controller. The device can actually remember several of these controller certificates, allow the device to work with several controllers.

Later, when things want to communicate with the device over WiFi it will only talk to things that can prove they have the private keys for a controller certificate the device has.

There is nothing that requires those private keys to only be in one place. If you set up a new Matter device using your iPad, for example, it will store the keys in Keychain and they will be shared with your other Apple devices, such as your iPhone and your Mac. Your iPhone and Mac can then authenticate to the device and it will accept commands from them. As far as the device is concerned they are all the controller that set it up.

There are some advantages of getting a controller that is not your phone/tablet/computer, such as a HomePod or Apple TV. Those support remote control through the cloud. If you just use your phone/tablet/computer you can only control the device locally.

Suppose that you set up the device first using an iPhone as the controller. Later you want to also be able to control it from an Android phone. What you do is go to Apple Home, find the device and open its settings, and somewhere in there there will be an option to put the device in pairing mode.

Select that and Home will generate a one-time pairing code, give that to the device, and put the device in pairing mode. It will also tell you that code.

You then go to your Android phone and go through its process for setting up a Matter device, except you use the code you got from Apple Home instead of the code that came with the device. The code that comes with the device is only used to set it up with the first controller (initially or after a factory reset).

That gets the certificate for your Android phone onto the device. It doesn't disturb the certificate from the iPhone so now the device will recognize both your Apple stuff and your Android phone as legit controllers.

Now suppose later you get an Amazon Echo and want to add the device. Echos can act as Matter controllers for the Alexa ecosystem. You can use any one of the existing controllers that are paired with the device (iPhone or Android phone, or anything those have shared their private key with like iPad or Mac) and have that put the device in pairing mode again and generate a one-time code, and then use the Alexa app on one of your phones to go through Amazon's Matter controller setup.

In summary:

1. Each ecosystem (Apple Home, Google Home, Amazon Alexa, Home Assistant, Samsung SmartThings, etc) that you want to use a Matter device with needs a Matter controller.

2. A Matter controller is not necessarily a separate piece of hardware. If you just want to control a Matter device from your phone you've probably already got everything you need.

For Matter devices that use Thread for wireless communication instead of WiFi, you are more likely to need hardware other than just phones and tablets. I think some newer iPhones do support Thread directly, but mine doesn't and I don't own any Thread devices so have not looked deeper.

vardump• 9 months ago

I hope these new IKEA light bulbs finally reproduce deep greens. Some cyan shades were also nearly white. Blue and red shades were fine. (Not so coincidentally green shades are always missing from IKEA's product photos.)

cameldrv3• 9 months ago

I really like the idea of an open, local standard for this stuff. I have been a little annoyed at the matter standards immaturity still. Two things I’ve noticed is that there’s not good support for very low power devices that use WiFi. What you’d like to do, for example for a battery powered sensor, is to go into deep sleep and disconnect from the WiFi and then wake up periodically and report the sensor reading. Unfortunately as far as I can tell, you can’t really tell a matter hub that you’re going to disconnect from wifi and when you expect to reconnect and not have matter mark the device as missing. There are some things you can do with certain WiFi routers, but they’re not universally supported and they have time limits.

The device type catalog is also somewhat limited, for example there’s no garage door device type.

kps2• 9 months ago

there’s not good support for very low power devices that use WiFi

That's what Thread is for.

niceguy1827• 9 months ago

I've seen somebody on Reddit using LoRa stuff for the home.

The problem with these wifi based sensors is that you eventually run out of IP addresses (yes you could get fancy with subnet setup but still). Another problem is that at some point you might want to swap routers -- I had to swap out a faulty Netgear router, and the re-set was a major PITA. For these reasons I've been moving to Zigbee.

gregmac2• 9 months ago

It's good to move to Zigbee/thread/z-wave anyway because they're all better protocols for smarthome stuff. Plus wifi means you might be buying stuff that relies on cloud, which is a non-starter for anyone that doesn't like buying future paperweights.

But your criticisms are strange. You have more than 254 devices connecting (which implies a complex setup) but can't increase the subnet size? Or does your router just have an absurdly small default DHCP range?

I also don't understand the swap your router problem, unless you're also using default SSIDs and not changing it. Configure the SSID and PSK to be the same as before and everything will just work.

StopDisinfo910• 9 months ago

10.0.0.0/8 is entirely reserved for private use. I don’t see any home users needing more ip than that and even then you could just switch to v6 and be done with the worry.

Bandwidth and interference will likely be an issue far before ip scarcity.

ArchOversight2• 9 months ago

That's why Matter and Thread are IPv6. You don't need IPv4 at all... and if you run out of IPv6 address space, I'd love to see just how many devices/sensors you have in your home.

ssl-34• 9 months ago

Approximately every home wifi router I've ever used has a class C subnet configured by default, out of the box.

That's enough for over 250 networked widgets to be concurrently connected with IPV4. That's a lot of widgets for one home.

If a person is getting into the realm of having a home with more than 250 networked widgets and addressing is becoming problematic in ways that are beyond their understanding and/or ability, then:

I might suggest that this is roughly equivalent to any other household thing that a homeowner doesn't fully understand (or that they don't want to understand), and that it would be completely fair to remind them that it is perfectly normal and acceptable to hire a qualified person or company to -- you know -- look into that for them.

(It's ok to hire a plumber, or a roofer, or a painter, or a cleaner, or any number of other professionals to help with making stuff work. It's also OK to hire someone to work on the network.)

gregmac2• 9 months ago

there’s not good support for very low power devices that use WiFi

That's why we have Thread. Wifi just isn't a very efficient protocol for using with deep sleep. The radio takes more power to run, the overhead of connecting is higher, and the device needs a full IP stack. Even with power save mode (if supported by client and AP), the radio is on for hundreds of milliseconds to send a message.

Thread has "sleepy end device" profile built-in where the hub will queue messages and expects the device to be in deep sleep most of the time. And since it doesn't have so much overhead, the radio only has to be on for tens of milliseconds.

cameldrv3• 9 months ago

Thread is fine, but also wifi is fine. Sleepy end device doesn't work very well with wifi, as I understand it, (from trying to implement it using the ESP32 SDK), because Matter generally wants all devices to check in several times an hour at least.

Take a smart scale for example. Mine uses wifi and is in deep sleep almost all of the time. When you step on it, it weighs you, connects to wifi, and sends the measurement. This does fine on battery because it only gets used a few times a day max, and I think it may power up the radios to look for a software update once a day or something. If it had to power up the radios every 5 minutes though it wouldn't last a year on a charge.

Another example would be a water/flood sensor. The overwhelming majority of the time, it has nothing to report. Maybe once a day or so it should report the battery level and that it's still there. You can still get great battery life as long as you don't have to turn on the radio all the time, but Matter doesn't really let you do this, in my understanding, at least as of the current revision.

skopje• 9 months ago

Matter is nice because of its mesh and low power wakeup. but esh networks are hard to get right. Matter is better than BLE mesh but still not perfect. If you like to build yourself better to use MQTT (deal with a little latency when you turn on your light) on esp32 (nice and low power modes) and Wi-Fi repeaters around the house.

B1FF_PSUVM• 9 months ago

These guys have prices: https://9to5google.com/2025/11/06/ikeas-new-lights-sensors-a...

Was looking for this one: ALPSTUGA air quality sensor: £25 (~$33 USD)

lynndotpy3• 9 months ago

Coming as a very disgruntled and burned Philips Hue owner. Only four bulbs, but Philips is a name which leaves behind bile when spoken.

Ikea's Tradfri line was very refreshing for being entirely configurable with the wireless remote it comes with. You can connect multiple bulbs to one remote, without ever tinkering with an app or a hub or Home Assistant, etc.

Crucially, old TRADFRI communicated from the remote control to the bulb directly, so Ikea couldn't burn me the way Philips did. I'm hoping the new KAJPLATS end up working the same way.

russdill• 9 months ago

It's because tradfri is zigbee. matter is in some ways an independent successor to zigbee.

uplifter2• 9 months ago

I'm curious why you are disgruntled with Philips Hue. They were quite honestly one of my happiest purchases, though I bought them when they were the only programmable color lights available to buy and I would probably get another model today.

Was it the dropping of support?

lynndotpy3• 9 months ago

They started requiring an account to use the lights, and support started stating stating that the bulbs will not be usable without an account or the app, with the CTO stating intention to deprecate the local APIs entirely. This flies in the face of why I bought Hue. These are woes I thought I'd be "safe" from when I bought from Philips. I never wanted to create an account or use an app.

After spending time setting up Home Assistant, figuring out what I'd need to do to prevent a firmware update from hitting the bulbs, etc. I decided just to chalk the bulbs up to trash and sell them.

imp0cat• 9 months ago

It is a shame really, because the Philips Hue hardware and software was superior to the Ikea ones (logarithmic vs linear dimming curves).

kevinsundar• 9 months ago

Matter does have the concept of Binding which is exactly this. Not sure if ikea implemented it, but the spec supports it!

oritron2• 9 months ago

Most of my current-gen IKEA switches will pop out from their steel cradles with normal button presses, because of the curved back of the switch and the curved cradle it connects to magnetically. They've thrown in die-cut double sided adhesive tissue in what I assume was an afterthought, which doesn't peel from one backer sheet in any of the packages I've opened... Maybe it's humidity or temperature sensitive? After a couple of drops on the ground, some internal plastic cracks and tactile response is lost. I ended up using my own double sided tape but it's not a good user experience. I would bet the new switches don't have a curved back, certainly they've had a number of returns because of this aesthetic choice.

I don't care at all about Thread vs Zigbee (this press release doesn't actually say Thread), beyond the very basics in smart home things you want a computer involved and at that point the way it communicates stops being a big concern. I strongly recommend Home Assistant on a low spec mini pc, beats a Raspberry Pi in ~every metric for this use case.

I've been burned by trusting Matter to mean broad compatability; my Aqara lock doesn't indicate how the door was unlocked over Matter despite showing up in their app, and this is after having to buy their Zigbee bridge because it won't connect to Zigbee devices from other brands. Even with Matter, home automation still needs a geek.

054• 9 months ago

I've been burned by trusting Matter to mean broad compatability; my Aqara lock doesn't indicate how the door was unlocked over Matter despite showing up in their app, and this is after having to buy their Zigbee bridge because it won't connect to Zigbee devices from other brands.

Matter was made by the same guys that created Zigbee, proprietary vendor extensions are their bread and butter. Anything trickier than a contact sensor or motion detector, you should definitely research compatibility and definitely not update firmware once it works.

Fwirt• 9 months ago

I have been spending hours the past couple weeks "ensmartening" my home with IoT switches and power outlets. Home Assistant is gorgeous and is an absolute feat of engineering and a testament to the power of open source, but messing with it you can tell that it's very much "by nerds, for nerds". I don't expect my wife to learn to edit YAML files so she can customize a dashboard. The drag and drop editor mostly works but it's missing a lot of functionality. And if your network topology is anything but flat (i.e. everything connected to one consumer router, which probably does cover 95% of people) then good luck with any of the discovery technology like mDNS or broadcast domains. I have dnsmasq allocate hostnames and static IPs for all my stuff and manually punch in the hostname for 99% of things in HA.

The ecosystem I've had the best luck with is, sadly, Tuya, aka Smart Life, aka giant Chinese conglomerate. Pretty much any small brand (or even some bigger brands) use Tuya to build because they have easy off-the-shelf solutions, and I have some confidence that they're large and entrenched enough that they won't randomly shut off their cloud services. But even if they do, enough reverse-engineering work has been put in that you can run most of your devices locally without a cloud connection. The cloud connection is pretty seamless and is the easiest thing I've had to configure in HA. Once you add a device in the Smart Life app you just reload the HA integration and there it is, ready to go. I actually get less latency toggling lights through HA than through the Smart Life app. I don't really worry about them knowing when my front door is shut or my living room lights are off, and I keep all that stuff on its own VLAN with no outgoing access to the rest of my network.

As I start dabbling with Zigbee and Thread and Matter and stuff, it seems like all of these other "open" "ecosystems" are really complicated and require buying a bunch of hardware I don't want and coordinating another network on another protocol, whereas the Wi-Fi stuff just usually works. It makes (some) sense for extremely low power devices that need to run for years on a battery, but lights and outlets don't really need to be Zigbee devices. BLE devices over an ESPHome Bluetooth proxy work surprisingly well too, and BLE is a less crummy technology than Bluetooth proper and seems to be low power enough for a lot of battery operated devices. I wish everything would just support MQTT because that seems like the most "universal" IoT protocol there is.

oritron2• 9 months ago

There are also Tuya zigbee devices and people have hacked local control of Tuya wifi bulbs to varying degrees. My best stuff is IKEA: their battery powered devices use AAA so I can throw in rechargeable cells and there isn't a ton of waste in CR2032s, and they make the only inexpensive Zigbee buttons I've seen that don't include a double-click (Rodret, not the very similar Somrig). The benefit there is commands are nearly instantaneous, rather than waiting for the maximum double click time before deciding it's a single click. The RGB bulbs don't have a lot of brightness to them in color modes, I wonder if that will change with the new products.

I've got a few locally-controlled wifi bulbs that I bought before seriously getting into home automation. They are Tuya white-label, I'm using the tuya-local integration. Since I can't do something like a zigbee `bind` they are fully network dependent, when they go I'll replace them with IKEA bulbs.

I agree Home Assistant still needs a nerd for setup and tinkering but the default dashboard is impressive and all of the functionality is outstanding.

kalaksi• 9 months ago

Years ago, I specifically went with zigbee because it's low-power and a simpler protocol stack (and open). No need to even think if the device will run offline or what kind of API it will use. I'm running HA and all the hardware I needed was a USB zigbee dongle and that's it. You pair your sensors, outlets etc. to it using a GUI and by pressing a physical button. No need to coordinate anything yourself, the mesh network can take care of itself.

maxglute• 9 months ago

Still waiting on an IKEA bidet.

idbehold3• 9 months ago

The term "range" (in the context of a "home") typically describes a multi-function cooking appliance that features a rangetop for heating pots and an oven directly beneath it. Why is this page about lightbulbs? The subtitle even has the word they should've used instead of "range": "products".

aquova• 9 months ago

"Range" here refers to a range of products, in this case a collection of Matter supported devices

idbehold3• 9 months ago

"Products" would have had no such ambiguity.

AndrewDucker2• 9 months ago

Range (noun): a set of similar things https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/range

idbehold3• 9 months ago

Range (noun): a large box-shaped device that is used to cook and heat food, either by putting the food inside or by putting it on the top https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/range#ca...

pinkmuffinere• 9 months ago

To be fair, I think most usage is of the form "range of ____". Even the definitions provided illustrate this with "range of options", "range of opinions", "range of model railway accessories". The exception is "This jacket is part of our autumn/spring range", which is a formulation that I've personally never heard; I would generally expect "autumn/spring line".

SebastianKra• 9 months ago

IKEA's previous line didn't have a great lifespan:

I had two Tradfri Smart Plugs - both broke down in the same way after the same time.

I had to swap 3 out of 9 GU10 lights due to flickering.

I'm also unhappy with how long their motion sensor takes to register, but that seems to be a problem with motions sensors in general.

aljgz• 9 months ago

I bought many ikea products when I moved to a new place, only to be disappointed by all. The light bulbs create a hissing noise, so much to be unusable for bedroom and living room. I put then in the bathroom and storage. The app is much worse than the previous generation. Their sofa bed was so much worse than the much cheaper one I had earlier, I dubned it my worst purchase in the last 5 years, outcompeting the Samsung TV. Lesson learned: just because my favorite brand has good products a couple years back, does not mean I should walk in and buy things from them again.

IKEA launches new smart home range with 21 Matter-compatible products

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