Kindle is removing download and transfer option on Feb 26th

https://old.reddit.com/r/kindle/comments/1inr9uy/fyi_amazon_is_removing_download_transfer_option/

by andyjohnson0 • 1 year ago

374 216 1 year ago

old.reddit.com

i have owned kindles for the better part of a decade and purchased books from the store a total of 4 times - the library and friend’s epub collections were far more appealing

poisonborz3• 1 year ago

Bad, but anyone sideloading would skip Kindles anyway for a long time now for much better products.

locusofself3• 1 year ago

I think you can still sideload? Seems like this applies more to getting stuff off of the kindle to the P.C.

wkat42429• 1 year ago

No the books are downloaded from the Amazon site. This is what is being removed.

They are for the specific purpose of officially supported sideloading so that is also being removed. Sideloading books from other sources is still ok.

locusofself3• 1 year ago

Also, what better products are there? Kobo? I have a kindle oasis and it's a great device. Not that I love giving money to Amazon, I avoid that when I can with library or at least heavily discounted/public domain or side-loaded books whenever possible.

cyberpunk• 1 year ago

I kept my oasis chugging for as long as I could stand it but there was no replacement with physical buttons, so I switched to a kobo colour. It's pretty great, if you install koreader on it you can even get to an on-screen linux shell, if you just have to bang out some awk on the bus.. :}

wkat42429• 1 year ago

At least kobo still has physical buttons on most of their devices. The oasis has them yes but it hasn't been updated in many years. It lacks mod cons like light temperature and white on black mode.

The one thing that really bothers me about Kobo is that they no longer have a b/w reader in the Libra format. The Kobo colour has so much worse contrast. That degradation is not worth the slight benefit of mediocre colours for me. It really means always needing the blacklight.

marklar4232• 1 year ago

Kobo is definitely superior to Kindle in my book. The hardware is great and it's completely open to sideloading and even modding (it runs Linux under the hood).

I can't speak to their digital bookstore but they integrate with Overdrive for library borrowing.

8ytecoder• 1 year ago

Kobo Libra color. If I’m being very honest, the screen isn’t as good as the oasis but it’s a compromise I’ve accepted for vastly superior hackability. I telnet into my kobo and installed tailscale then pointed the api to my calibre web instance, I have a much better experience overall because the books are drm-free(d) and calibre web handles sync with kobo really well.

And it has physical buttons. I was clinging to my oasis for the buttons.

loeg2• 1 year ago

I use a Kindle and pretty much exclusively sideload. The display and form factor are fantastic. Battery life is very good. Last time I was in the market (late 2021), nothing else was as good.

permo-w5• 1 year ago

you're right. it's an e-reader that you can email any epub file to and it'll read it. if you don't want to pirate, there's a functional store. what more do people need?

theshackleford• 1 year ago

My kobo is easily as good as my kindle was. Only better, because it has zero ties to Amazon.

poisonborz3• 1 year ago

I think the value of Kindles lies in Amazon's ecosystem. Hardware-wise I think most competitors catched up. Kobos especially are great, and have a much more open software platform.

tormeh• 1 year ago

The Pocketbook Era Color is the best e-reader right now if you don't care about stores. Or at least it was the best device out there when I was in the market for a reader.

int_19h8• 1 year ago

I sideload with my Kindle all the time and I don't expect to switch away. It still lets me grab any random non-DRM ePub and upload it over USB, or, better yet, add it directly to my cloud library with Send to Email (and then I also get position & bookmark sync across all devices etc).

devilbunny• 1 year ago

I only use eInk to read at the beach or pool. I am still happily using a Kindle 3G. That’s an old, old model, but it still works and it has physical page turn buttons. Too old to work with the Kindle store even over WiFi. But sideloading works just fine, and I always have a laptop on vacation. As long as I have 3-4 books ready each day I’ll never be caught short. Download, strip DRM if desired, sideload.

Now I suppose it will just be Anna and me doing the sideload.

locusofself3• 1 year ago

It sounds like this applies to backing up to a hard drive etc, and for some people, then removing DRM from their kindle books.

I understand the worry, but for me I was more worried about losing the ability to side-load books, which I don't think is being removed.

gnabgib• 1 year ago

Discussions

(120 points, 3 days ago, 93 comments) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43041726

(50 points, 2 days ago, 23 comments) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43046995

(120 points, 1 day ago, 101 comments) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43058889

427728274• 1 year ago

There have been several threads about this on HN over the past few days and months. Just to avoid the confusion that seems to follow these, a few notes:

(1) This is the "Download and Transfer" option where Amazon allowed users to select books they had purchased a license to and download them from the Amazon website.

(2) The ability to transfer books from your computer to your Kindle using a USB cable is not affected.

(3) The ability to send non-Amazon-licensed ePubs using the Send to Kindle email feature is not affected.

spookybones• 1 year ago

I was reading a Reddit thread on this, and not a single person there understood this. It isn’t good news, but it’s being severely misinterpreted.

permo-w5• 1 year ago

I was reading a Reddit thread on this, and not a single person there understood this

were you surprised by this revelation?

wkat42429• 1 year ago

(2) The ability to transfer books from your computer to your Kindle using a USB cable is not affected.

Well, it kinda is. If you can no longer download the books you paid for, you can't upload them over USB. That's what that feature on their website was meant for, in fact.

Of course you can still upload non-Amazon content yes. Which is probably what I'll end up doing. I won't buy books on Amazon anymore if I can't remove the DRM.

427728274• 1 year ago

You can still download books you paid a license to Amazon for, you just have to use a Wi-Fi or 4G LTE-enabled Kindle to do it.

jsbisviewtiful• 1 year ago

Thanks. I feel like the commentary and “news blogs” around this have been very confusing.

bo1024• 1 year ago

This is far worse for me than the other possible interpretation - that you could download books but not transfer them. I buy Amazon e-books to read them on other e-readers, but now it looks like I can't.

freeAgent2• 1 year ago

That’s the bottom line. Kindle books will now be fully locked into the Kindle ecosystem and if Amazon decides to take back something you’ve “purchased,” you’ll have no recourse. I’m done purchasing ebooks from Amazon because of this.

fooker2• 1 year ago

Well yes, Amazon wants you to buy kindles.

widowlark• 1 year ago

my solution is to buy a basic kindle with wifi and use that to download the books, then transfer them to calibre directly from the kindle

Yeul2• 1 year ago

I like my Kindle because it was cheap (nobody can beat that price) but I've never bought a book from Amazon nor do I plan to.

If they aren't interfering with (2) Amazon can do what it wants.

neilv2• 1 year ago

For people already locked into Kindle, I don't know what to tell you. (Unless you DRM-crack, and get into the gray areas of the piracy culture that's creating much of the DRM problems.)

But it would be healthy for everyone if people supported a DRM-free and non-surveillance ebook ecosystem.

One solution I found is to buy ebooks as DRM-free EPUBs and PDFs, and read them in open source desktop tools and on my relatively decent PocketBook InkPad Lite.

Some details at: https://www.neilvandyke.org/ebooks/

wkat42429• 1 year ago

(Unless you DRM-crack, and get into the gray areas of the piracy culture that's creating much of the DRM problems.)

Meh. Even if there was no piracy there'd be DRM. It's not only used to limit privacy but also how you can legitimately use stuff you bought. Like how many devices you can access it on. Or how many times you can view video content.

In fact I think the presence of piracy helps keep prices low. I'm sure Netflix would raise prices even more if they weren't losing customers to piracy every time they raise prices or add crap like ads.. And really, DRM does absolutely nothing to prevent this. It's not as if the latest shows aren't on the pirate bay hours after they appear on Netflix.

But it would be healthy for everyone if people supported a DRM-free and non-surveillance ebook ecosystem.

That would be very nice yes, if there were one. I don't think there's anything like GOG for books. But yes I do always buy my games on GOG if they are available there.

buu709• 1 year ago

ebooks.com does tell you if a title has DRM or not, which seems to be the best option currently. Outside of that I haven't found much.

neilv2• 1 year ago

The link lists a few places that have DRM-free ebooks, and some examples of good technical books I've bought that way.

sitkack2• 1 year ago

That is what DRM is for. Same as the region locking in DVDs. It is about segmenting markets, preventing competition and ensuring that the publishers can sell the same content over and over again.

loeg2• 1 year ago

You can always load 3rd-party DRM-free books and I don't see Amazon removing that. Their hardware and ecosystem aren't that much better than everyone else's.

daveoc646• 1 year ago

But it would be healthy for everyone if people supported a DRM-free and non-surveillance ebook ecosystem.

I dream of a day when that's possible, but all of the massive publishers with over 80% of book marketshare insist on DRM.

pmarreck5• 1 year ago

and get into the gray areas of the piracy culture that's creating much of the DRM problems

This is an interesting framing, mainly because it can be flipped 180 degrees around. "Shinier and more impregnable DRM just creates problems that lock you into certain devices and usage patterns, which simply create much of the gray area of piracy culture"

I mean, you're literally starting out by not trusting the person who fucking purchased your product and then furthermore also artificially limiting them in how they can use that content and on what devices!

Imagine if every marriage began with an un-shut-offable location tracker in your wedding band. You'd be complaining about the "cheating culture that has contributed to the need to install uncircumventable perma-trackers on the newly-married... and also, everyone who tries to disable them OBVIOUSLY just wants to cheat" /eye-roll

thayne• 1 year ago

One solution I found is to buy ebooks as DRM-free EPUBs and PDFs

Unfortunately, for many, many books, this isn't possible, at least legally.

mfashby• 1 year ago

But it would be healthy for everyone if people supported a DRM-free and non-surveillance ebook ecosystem.

I try nearly every time. The book I want (usually sci-fi recommended to me by friends) is never available from any DRM free shop I can find.

I end up buying from Amazon because their DRM is the most convenient to remive. And I go to the effort to remove it because I want to keep the content I buy, not have it disappear when the DRM key holder decides to take it away from me.

uni_baconcat• 1 year ago

In fact, I want to hear from authors, who write books and profits from their work, what’s their thoughts about this policy change.

Retr0id• 1 year ago

By the way, all kindle models are currently jailbreakable: https://kindlemodding.org/jailbreaking/WinterBreak/

rafram• 1 year ago

As far as I can tell, the main benefit of jailbreaking is to be able to install a reader that supports more ebook formats, since a stock Kindle can already browse the web and read ebooks from any source, but it only supports MOBI/AZW3, and the Send to Kindle EPUB converter is not very good. But it’s easy enough to use Calibre to do a lossless EPUB -> AZW3 conversion without the hassle of jailbreaking. Is there some other benefit that I’m missing?

jerjerjer• 1 year ago

Folders.

beshrkayali• 1 year ago

It’s a bit more than just supporting additional formats. KOReader for example is a highly customizable (and mature) reader that’s hard to beat. Plenty of plugins exist also. In particular, one nice thing about the Calibre plugin is wireless sending of books and progress sync across device(s) and desktop.

shasheene• 1 year ago

Oh finally! I have a Kindle Scribe, and it's really amazing hardware, but it's unusable for reading websites like Wikipedia and sending links to it using the Amazon bookmarklet is a pretty bad experience.

The biggest issue is the web browser doesn't have pagination, ie a next page button. *It only supports smooth scrolling using the touch screen*. Which on an e-ink display is a completely awful, insanely frustrating experience that I can't believe they ship it (and the Scribe is an 11th generation product).

Using a web browser to read pure text is a blurred mess that's takes several painful seconds to slowly scroll to the next page.

Since I bought the Kindle Scribe (big mistake due to the above issue), I've wanted to jailbreak it to install a non-terrible Wikipedia browser.

Eg the one available in the KOReader project -- the open-source alternative eink-optimized ebook app that is widely-supported across the eink ecosystem (including older Kindles).

Thanks for heads up that a jailbreak is finally available!

mattl5• 1 year ago

The Scribe should be so much better but all the issues you mentioned put me off buying one.

ChrisArchitect2• 1 year ago

[dupe] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43046995

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43039924

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43041726

hoppyhoppy2• 1 year ago

This comment is itself a dupe of https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43070314

ChrisArchitect2• 1 year ago

Except it flags it properly as dupe and doesn't include more dupes.

rcMgD2BwE72F• 1 year ago

Kobo has a sideloading mode that disables all connected-services by default (no need for an account, no online store necessary). Highly recommended alternative.

https://blog.the-ebook-reader.com/2022/01/21/kobo-software-u...

wiether• 1 year ago

I hear the complaints about Kindle but...

How are we supposed to do?

In three "taps" I buy a book and 10s later I start reading it. Legally. The device just works.

The alternatives? Libraries here (France) have a very limited offer of ebooks. Even for ebooks in English. I owned a Kobo circa 2013 and it was awful. I tried friend's devices more recently, and it's not the UX I expect from a "book".

A simple comparison; "Parable of the Sower", bought it for 3.49€ on amazon.fr, it's at 5.26€ on ebooks.com and it still got DRMs.

Even pirating is less convenient: some files are buggy, some files are weird OCR of physical books, you have to deal with the download and transfer...

And I just can't read physical books. I hate that.

So usually, if I really enjoy an ebook, I buy a physical copy in a local bookstore and give it to a friend/whoever I think is going to like it.

I would love an open ecosystem where I could rent ebooks from a library, and buy books that can be read wherever I want. But that's not going to happen because the big guns of the industry think they know better.

So that's where I'm at: buying & reading books in Amazon's walled garden, or doing neither at all.

yreg2• 1 year ago

Even pirating is less convenient

I stopped reading ebooks and actually moved to physical books, but from what I remember pirated books were super convenient. I had this giant library of tons and tons of scifi/fantasy books I once randomly copied from someone and it didn't even take that much storage space. It lasted me my childhood and I've only managed to read a small fraction of it.

aradox664• 1 year ago

Sci Fi more than a decade old is the golden zone for piracy. Everything else is harder. Contemporary books, very hard.

goosedragons10• 1 year ago

What exactly is the UX you want from an eReader? I find Kindles and Kobos are pretty similar. So I'm curious what exactly was better about Amazon. I personally find Amazon has worse text options, font sizing, line spacing etc.

I have purchased eBooks that were just bad OCRs, some publishers just don't care.

Kobo will also price match with Amazon, you get credit back and an extra 10% too.

Uvix3• 1 year ago

I'm intrigued that you think Kindle has worse text options than Kobo; in my experience it's the other way around. My Kobo doesn't have the ability to justify just body text while leaving headings alone; my Kindles have handled that just fine for over a decade.

What options does Kobo have for text that you think Kindle is missing?

I use my Kobo for comics and buy those through them (specifically got one with a large screen since Amazon didn't have a similar device), but I don't know if I'd switch to Kobo for novels. I'd rather buy from Kobo and sideload to my Kindle.

debo_• 1 year ago

In Canada, I use my (now 8-year old Kobo) plus a public library app to borrow ebooks from our library system for free. Everything just works. It's terrific. I'm sorry to hear the same doesn't work where you are.

sandos2• 1 year ago

Here in Sweden there used to be like 3 libraries that used OverDrive and worked with Kobo, now its down to like 1 library! :(

chipotle_coyote2• 1 year ago

I can't speak to the experience in France, but my experience with Kobo in the US has been that it's just as good as a Kindle in most respects, and better in some others, such as integration with Overdrive and Pocket. (My understanding is that Kindles have gotten better at Overdrive since I left that ecosystem.)

I mean, I can buy a book on a Kobo and read it legally in just as few taps, and I can also borrow a book on Kobo and read it legally.

Also, Kobo plays more nicely with Calibre, including a much nicer DRM-stripping management plugin, which seems relevant to the overall topic of this thread -- all the Kindle DRM removal plugin how-tos out there stopped working reliably for me years ago.

syntaxing3• 1 year ago

Uhh what? There’s like four tabs for the Kobo interface, one specifically for books. You literally just click the book you want to read…Not sure what more you want from an ereader or how much easier it can get.

palata4• 1 year ago

I owned a Kobo circa 2013 and it was awful.

I got my Kindle around that time, even though I had actively looked for alternatives. Nothing seemed to compare then.

But I'm ready to believe that now in 2025, Kobo caught up? I read many comments here praising Kobo.

bambax2• 1 year ago

some files are weird OCR of physical books

Kindle store has those too.

pmarreck5• 1 year ago

I own Kindles and I have bought a lot of ebook content from the Amazon store over the years but they don't seem to realize that the more restrictions they put in place, the more they are incentivizing just someone going to the effort to decrypt/de-DRM everything to epub and shoving it into a Kobo (or apple's Books.app, or comic book reader, or anything else that reads the ebook or comic book formats)

...Which is exactly what I ended up doing. Decrypting 100% of my Kindle purchases so I can use them how I please, and using z-library when I was too lazy to even do so.

Apple understood this when the first iPod came out. Offer a better service, not shinier handcuffs.

runjake• 1 year ago

What do you use to decrypt your Kindle purchases? I haven't yet found anything that works with modern purchases.

pmarreck5• 1 year ago

Most forums frown on sharing such information, but seek and ye shall find. Also, it's good to leave speed bumps in place due to the ethical concerns.

The last time I did it I had to basically procure an old Kindle app and get the content via that, because it used a weaker version of DRM. That loophole may have been closed in the meantime, though.

daveoc646• 1 year ago

Apple understood this when the first iPod came out. Offer a better service, not shinier handcuffs.

It's a shame they haven't tried to pressure the publishers into dropping DRM for books.

The DRM used by Apple's bookstore is entirely limited to Apple's own apps on its own devices. You can't even read the books in a web browser.

pmarreck5• 1 year ago

Which is why I try to decrypt everything I purchase, or obtain a decrypted version after purchase. (The only grey-area exception is if I own the physical copy of the book, I consider it ethical to download the ebook, but this is of course debatable to a degree)

I'm not trying to screw over authors and publishers, I just want to use my purchased content how I please.

They could easily do what Apple did and leave things un-DRM'd but digitally-signed as having been purchased by someone.

t-writescode2• 1 year ago

The first iPod and iTunes stores were very full of DRM.

freeAgent2• 1 year ago

Yup, and thankfully piracy outcompeted them so Apple gave it up.

pmarreck5• 1 year ago

And Jobs, to his credit, convinced them to let go of the idea.

int_19h8• 1 year ago

The vast majority of Kindle users do not possess the technical expertise or inclination to decrypt/de-DRM their purchases. But, also, I doubt that the kind of workflow that is affected by this change is something that would even register for most.

blackeyeblitzar• 1 year ago

How do I jailbreak Kindle books so they aren’t later removed or restricted in weird ways?

compootr• 1 year ago

something something library genesis

amluto• 1 year ago

This is especially obnoxious for books that are already DRM-free. For example, one can presently buy a Tor (the publisher, not the onion router) book from the Kindle store, download the azw3 file, use a tool like KindleUnpacker [0] to more or less losslessly convert it to ePub, and read it anywhere. There's no DRM to break!

[0] KindleUnpacker follows in the IMO utterly bizarre tradition in the epub tool writing scene of making it obvious how to run a really bad Tk UI wrapper and hiding the actual command-line tool in lib/. And of wanting an output directory instead of a filename. And of leaving a whole pile of unnecessary temporary files around. And of forcing you to look through the temporary crap to even find the output. Oh well; the actual output is excellent.

m463• 1 year ago

I think if decent companies like Tor ("this book is sold without drm") could unlock "download this book" in your kindle library, it would be a great thing.

also, in california with AB2426, I wonder if this would qualify as a purchase not a license.

https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billNavClient.xhtml...

yohbho• 1 year ago

Stallman calls it Swindle, for a reason. Actually, many reasons.

addicted• 1 year ago

I’m not sure why anyone buys Kindles when there are so many better options available.

I bought a Kobo Clara years ago, and it supports regular MOBI and ePub files.

My book purchases are no longer liked with the reader and I’ve never had a problem in all these years. And this wasn’t even the best or best value for money device I could have bought.

Today there are so many other better alternatives in all price points and form factors.

EA-3167• 1 year ago

I couldn't agree more. I use a Boox e-reader, and I had no interest in using the Kindle app, so stripping the DRM (on books I'd purchased, for my own use only) was a selling point. Without that I'm just moving my business over to Kobo, Calibre + a plugin and there's no DRM issue.

I won't pretend to know if there are enough people like us to impact Amazon's calculus, but I hope there are.

daveoc646• 1 year ago

I’m not sure why anyone buys Kindles when there are so many better options available.

For me, the Kobo lacks something like the Send to Kindle feature.

I can send books I've obtained from outside the Kindle Store (DRM free sellers, Humble Bundle, public domain etc.) and then store them in my Kindle library.

These are then synchronised across all of my Kindle devices and apps - completely for free

Kobo does have integration with cloud storage, but it's not the same feature.

Plus it has the Kindle Store, which has the biggest selection of books for sale.

palata4• 1 year ago

Plus it has the Kindle Store, which has the biggest selection of books for sale.

Because Amazon abuses its position to get there, right? I see how it makes it more convenient, but I also see how that is a reason for not buying a Kindle.

mitthrowaway2• 1 year ago

Isn't that what Calibre is for?

Saigonautica• 1 year ago

A working solution for me was to deploy a little website to organize both my physical and ebooks in the same place. For physical books, it tells me where they should be. For ebooks, I can download the file, the website is light enough that it works fine with my ebook reader.

Surely there are bugs, but here it is, if you'd like to give it a spin: https://github.com/seanboyce/ubiblio

Interestingly enough, I had tried to find a way to add an 'email to my device' option, but it was too fiddly. I got it working with OAUTH + gmail, but setting it up was not exactly user-friendly. The simple download option worked much better.

Anyway just a weekend project I extended a little. Don't expect much polish :D

tfsh3• 1 year ago

Massive +1 to this, I'd recommend using Calibre to manage your library and any Kobo reader as the companion, I manage a massive 2000+ book library like like this, and never encountered issues with syncing, corrupt file systems, etc, which I did regularly with Kindle.

maccard2• 1 year ago

I’ve managed the kindle library for my wife and I on two devices for close to 10 years and I’ve never dealt with syncing or file systems full stop. I hit “buy” on amazon and about 15 seconds later the book is on the kindle and ready to read. There _is_ no management to do.

Arainach• 1 year ago

People don't buy Kindles for the hardware. They buy Kindles because they work with a store that has the books they want to buy (and the hardware is good enough and cheap enough).

Without data I believe that more than 99% of ereader users have no idea what a MOBI or ePub file is and have never attempted to manually move a file onto their device. Instead, they go to a digital book store, click "buy", and content appears on their device.

Amazon does that as well as (better than?) any competitor, and crucially their store has the books people want.

I don't want a subscription store filled exclusively with LLM-generated trash. I don't really want to have to find which of a thousand websites will sell a DRM-free copy of something so I can buy it, download it, transcode it in Calibre into a format my device reads, and transfer it to my device. I'd much rather pay a few dollars, click a button that sends some money to the author and sends a book to my device.

This whole comments section reeks of "I don't understand why anyone uses Windows when Linux is so easy to get to", managing to simultaneously assume every user has a degree in computer science and overlooking all the rough edges.

OvbiousError• 1 year ago

The alternative I see mentioned here is kobo. I haven't used/owned a kindle so I don't know what amazon do better than the kobo store. I can say that I've bought over 50 books on the kobo store, can't recall a single instance of it not having a book I wanted.

bambax2• 1 year ago

It is (was) very convenient to buy ebooks on Amazon, download them to Calibre, and strip them of DRM so that you ended up owning them for real.

If that's no longer possible then there's no point in using Amazon for this, yes.

int_19h8• 1 year ago

Three reasons for me.

First, Kindle Oasis has a great form factor. I want a reader that is shaped conveniently to hold with one hand and flip pages without having to lift my thumb. Oasis does exactly that.

Second, I find that Amazon is the most likely to have books that I care about. Other catalogs aren't as extensive, and depending on your preferences, this can get really noticeable.

Lastly, I already have a very large Kindle library from way back, and switching to a different incompatible device means abandoning all of that.

rochav• 1 year ago

Well, Amazon does have a global presence, for worse rather than better in my opinion, but I live in Brazil and, as far as I am aware, there isn't really any other decent e-reader brand selling its devices here officially and conversion rates plus taxes would make it really expensive to import anything else, so that could be a reason.

I have an 2016 basic kindle that I use often, it is sideloaded with KOreader (official software didn't support epubs when I bought it) and I mainly use it for non-amazon books through Calibre or cable transfer.

snackernews• 1 year ago

For me it’s purely the multi-device experience across e-reader and iphone app.

Access to my purchased books from either device anywhere, and flawless progress syncing.

I don’t take my kindle everywhere, sometimes I just have my phone but still want to read.

I don’t believe this is as easy with Kobo as with Kindle (or even possible). If it is I’ll switch.

Yeul2• 1 year ago

Kobo ereader is way more expensive. You can get the basic Kindle for 80 eurodollars (because Amazon expects to make it back).

phil21• 1 year ago

I still have found nothing really comparable to the Kindle Oasis on any other platform. At least not with good enough user reviews to consider trying.

I actually picked up a refurb unit to have as a spare since Amazon discontinued it.

I would love a modern USB-C or wireless charging version of it. Roughly same size and form factor, physical buttons, backlit, and completely waterproof.

That said since they discontinued that model line I would have no real reason to stick with kindle when my two on-on hand finally kick the bucket aside from convenience.

The Kobo Libre Colour seems to be the current closest option, so we shall see how it stands the test of time for when I finally leave my last Oasis on a plane or whatnot.

xtracto• 1 year ago

I've got an onyx boox and it has been amazing. No way on earth I'd buy a locked brick like the Kindle after my experience with the Boox.

fractallyte3• 1 year ago

I spent yesterday morning downloading ALL my (~2400) Kindle books using the command line utility from https://github.com/yihong0618/Kindle_download_helper

In case anyone else needs to do something similar: Log in to your Amazon account > Manage Your Content and Devices

Copy the cookie and save it to a file ('cookie.txt'): https://github.com/yihong0618/Kindle_download_helper?tab=rea...

Execute the Python utility (this example accesses amazon.co.uk):

  python kindle.py --cookie-file cookie.txt --uk -o DOWNLOADS --device_sn [Your Kindle serial no.] --mode all

You can also download a JSON list containing details of all your Kindle books:

  python kindle.py --cookie-file cookie.txt --uk --list --device_sn [Your Kindle serial no.]

There are other methods outlined in the README, but this worked best for me.

I also extracted a list of cover URLs from the JSON file using a basic Python script (with output redirected to a file 'covers.txt'):

  import json
  with open('book-list.json') as f:
    json_data = json.load(f)

  for i in range(len(json_data)):
    print(json_data[i]['productImage'])

And then I used wget to download them all too:

  wget --wait=3 --random-wait --input-file=covers.txt

Of course, the books are still DRM'd, but it's trivial to DeDRM them later. The crucial thing was to get the files before it's too late!

int_19h8• 1 year ago

Last time I tried to DeDRM my Kindle book collection, there were many books with "newer" DRM that wasn't possible to strip. Did that improve recently?

fractallyte3• 1 year ago

My collection is mainly .azw3 and .azw, with a handful of .tpz and azw4.

The former were trivial to strip; the latter, I'm not so sure yet. However, I have no .kfx books, so perhaps I haven't been exposed to the newer DRM?

myko• 1 year ago

If you download them using the serial # of an older kindle it should get the older file type and work

bitdivision• 1 year ago

Thank you! This was a great help in getting everything saved.

BjZnxPwb• 1 year ago

All I get is:

``` Exception: Can't get the csrf token, please refresh the page at https://www.amazon.co.uk/hz/mycd/myx#/home/content/booksAll and retry ```

Can someone give explicit instructions about the content of the cookie.txt?

The README instructions are unclear.

fractallyte3• 1 year ago

Firefox Web Developer Tools:

- Go to the 'Network' tab, refresh the page, and select a POST request.

- In the 'Headers' tab, scroll down and look for 'Cookie'. Right-click on this, and 'Copy Value'.

- Paste the value into a new text file, called 'cookie.txt'.

For reference, here's an example value of my cookie:

  session-id=152-5779672-8150522; session-id-time=2072187201l; i18n-prefs=USD; ubid-acbuk=259-0623959-6435953; lc-acbuk=en_US; x-acbuk="@fcSz1?ZoidPtV8iWFAT7S17q2buySBbi4OwMLzIatTX959dMWVcBs49BIYMKXwJ"; at-acbuk=Atza|IwEBILEDqYWReiVGyOpmljozmQfD84EYR493RQmb81gnR8CQajM2fpFmD7Ctc_db6aZ4e_ERI-VUHdji6-7tbYD6CGd10XzLG0hkvc2o5fl_OoT-SeDq_RvSygSUBzSd490Rg9gcUgDnEdUail7DvN0azO8a-aCtP1OZLk3YybpWL8rvCmlUGZeOWdF38FqGK61ne-HIUbXyU2Iy76995hLRebGrWRC3itESiiqYK0_fROUAUQ; sess-at-acbuk="6TNr+KYPYOzhQzHqyVoy91Xuq46dx4JxZmhWLgMTazs="; sst-acbuk=Sst1|PQGAuJ4uN8jtkdj4izQcBXmJCedA0A6Ct4AQkODweU5nYxW7f4kcYZAcoMF4TdDLcPeJc8OG1G1Q8dfCXZS8vjdWJmKElymBmqbaLKs1QVUbPFZheZefgl2REzTcqQIhaZX9aVy8kDwmWnkroAWDGv49gWadknkKUbHFq_gxyM8TKVEy8PGF2gmkDXkg2pvl598uZUXDL5svz9XDdQ90RRZVadMT8wlp2j5gO5Plftf5Zvzg-j4sT_3XIyuxKh8jwmeICxoaXvvkLO274UMcLCNZXEkrPQ-CmjUkACQ5M5rOcAI; session-token="CXpMUQVXX+bcPXMLqA7T9caleUA9JO5VWkX834DDQPUumoVZWL4vyjpKFMyjQVoVOlyAYTG0hT3E9QmhWG18kPxfPQq3vquApm1HzDUTuOwb8XSdG0Avkrp2I+lwgpjYMdOX1xiMMtgFLcxxKsIA9cPDPEinm1p4SVTHYdQ6S83TzcuK5Jr+C5oE4ZNoDeuY7p7aTitCEHxuHwMRqHzwEtKj7TB8N6S1x1KLjnd8X8u5ToZGudN5UYmKtp7tuIObvC4Z064GtK1I9OZvTF32KLW5XkY0v9FWUuZqEze5xkoukN+7o3KSnCYMfFteNPY1Nk+IislDOVbGwRuEaYbxPHYCuVj1RyamIA2LbLx1dRqe3ODi8B/b9oCP1VHuDFdqmqMYbxNy66Q="; sp-cdn="L5Z9:DE"

Saidolim• 1 year ago

I have error in each book. Asin: B0CNNDLFC5 download failed. I follow the steps you mentioned. I have json file and I downloaded the image files. But I have an issue with the books themselves. each download line gives error "Asin: .... download failed"

offbyone• 1 year ago

Well, this is delightful; the links that this tool finds now 403, and looking at the network inspector, it seems that the URLs are now signed in some way.

linotype2• 1 year ago

I just ordered a Kobo. Done with Amazon.

rocky1138• 1 year ago

Someone above mentioned all models are jailbreak-able.

linotype2• 1 year ago

I’d prefer to just be completely away from it. This will force me to build a totally separate library without DRM, etc.

syntaxing3• 1 year ago

I don’t really get the Kindle hype. Kobo is a vastly better experience and the unlimited plans are more affordable. Kobo is $8 a month, $10 for books and audiobooks. Kindle is $12 flat. Kobo has g drive and Dropbox integration. Also the e-readers use the same screens (minus the “colorsoft” which is still a e-ink product).

t-writescode2• 1 year ago

Marketing, first mover advantage, brand recognition, entrenched userbase, ubiquitous company name.

People use Kindles because they’re the easiest to find, most well known, integrated with one of the most popular online shps on the planet that also encourages easy publishing, were one of the first, used to “just work”, don’t need to be changed, already have their books on there, and so on.

josteink• 1 year ago

Uh. My Kindle cost me $100 like 8-10 years ago and has literally zero running costs.

What are these figures you are mentioning?

If a Kobo means a monthly fee, I swear I’ll never even consider getting one.

vohk• 1 year ago

They're referring to the subscription plans that give you unlimited access to their catalogue (or at least most of it), like Spotify versus buying an album. Both Kobo and Kindle offer individual purchases as well.

tfsh3• 1 year ago

Kobos doesn't require a subscription. I switched from a Kindle to a Kobo Clara Colour recently and it's honestly one of the best tech choices I've ever made. Kobos are hackable by default, so you can literally plug them into Chrome and flash new software onto them via WebUSB (or just via the file system). The real kicker for me though is the support with Calibre, I have a massive collection of maybe 2000 books, and this perfectly syncs with my Kobo supporting filtering, collections, etc. attempting this with even 10 books with my Kindle would routinely break down, books not appearing even after waiting hours for it to index, corrupt file systems, etc, the entire device is designed to push you towards Amazon store, including the scammy "pay £20 more to remove adverts" and them disguising the actual price as "reduced".

The fee GP pointed to is a monthly subscription similar to Amazon's Kindle book club offering.

syntaxing3• 1 year ago

I meant the book and audiobook subscription. It’s equivalent to Kindle Unlimited.

p1necone• 1 year ago

Idk about Kobo plus, the content available on it all seems to basically be the written equivalent of shovelware (unknown authors, questionable quality). I've almost never searched for a modern book I want to read and found it available on the subscription service.

Agree everything else is better though, and Amazon's equivalent subscription library could be just as bad for all I know.

will_beasley• 1 year ago

I suppose it depends on what you're into but kindle unlimited is the reason I prefer the kindle to kobo. Kobo seems to just be garbage but around 1 of every 3-4 books on my TBR written at least 6 months ago is on unlimited. Almost everything else I can find at the library. The few remaining outliers I wait until a sale (physical or digital).

Hackbraten2• 1 year ago

I bought a Tolino vision color (a rebranded Kobo Libra Color with shittier software) a few months ago. If Amazon no longer allows me to download purchased books, I can no longer de-DRM them and read them offline on my phone, on my Tolino or on my computer. It seems that most stores outside Amazon have even shittier DRM than Amazon has. How am I going to be able to buy books in the future so I can actually read them?

I’m absolutely willing to pay for ebooks. I always did. For me, removal of the download feature will absolutely be a bookalypse.

barbazoo2• 1 year ago

Kobo, I never had problems downloading the books and getting rid of the DRM.

kqr2• 1 year ago

Is there a script to download all your Kindle books?

abawany2• 1 year ago

perhaps this will help you as well: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43071284 .

Dxtros• 1 year ago

does anyone know if this affects the older versions of kindle for pc? You’re able to download your books from there still currently.

bloomingkales• 1 year ago

Libby is the way to go. It's going to suck when they defund the library.

bitsoda• 1 year ago

I love Libby. It's introduced me to so many titles by browsing what's currently available that I otherwise would've skipped over. The 21 day loan period gives me just enough of a gentle push to read that I wouldn't have if I owned the book outright.

nindalf• 1 year ago

I have a medium sized collection of Kindle books. I stay in the ecosystem because I enjoy the convenience of being able to read on my phone and tablet, and I enjoy being able to write and sync notes and highlights.

I would have liked to have all the books on my hard drive, fully searchable. But it seems like it won’t be possible now? I guess I’ll have to make do with my notes.

exe34• 1 year ago

Thank goodness I made a habit of downloading and unlocking the books that I bought on Amazon. I would hate to rush and download >100 books one by one now.

npteljes• 1 year ago

Good reminder to all of us to check the dependencies from time to time. Services don't last forever, which is not a problem at all, if people enter into contract consciously. What's painful is overly relying on a service, and then having the rug pulled from underneath the feet.

I don't think that this instance is particularly painful, but the lesson is still the same. If it's important, it's worth to back up at least the metadata.

NunoSempere• 1 year ago

I bought a Pocketbook after Amazon started nagging too much about connecting to the wifi. Would recommend.

abawany2• 1 year ago

Pocketbook is a solid choice. I've been very happy with my Pocketbok Inkpad Color 3 - their free cloud offering is great for transferring my ebooks around and their send-to feature is also great. I've never trusted the Kindle jail but in my various trials with eink devices, I've come to appreciate the clean experience that Pocketbook currently offers.

samjohnson• 1 year ago

I’ve tried leaving kindle but keep coming back because of how well it syncs side-loaded (via email) epub reading progress between the physical reader and the kindle app on my iPhone.

I recently got a Boox Palma, which I love, but the Android Kindle app can’t display time remaining in a chapter for emailed epubs. I find this very surprising, considering both the kindle hardware readers and iPhone kindle app have no problem doing this. Sharing this story in case someone else has run into this and identified a solution.

genericuser256• 1 year ago

I recently got a Palma as well, but just had the display randomly break in my soft coat pocket (note screen and touch are totally fine, just the eink). I would recommend other people avoid them due to this random breakage.

rand172• 1 year ago

As of this writing I can still connect my kindle and then read the kfx file with Calibre and then convert it to azw3 or epub (with the dedrm plugin).

Should I loose every way to backup my books, then probably I'd use tesseract, puppeteer and their cloud reader to re-ocr the books (it's better than nothing). Also note that the country I live in, libraries have no ebooks. Kobo drm is another nuisance.

gjm112• 1 year ago

When I try to do this, it flatly doesn't work -- I get a popup message saying "This book has DRM". I have what I believe to be the latest version of the DeDRM plugin installed in Calibre.

(I am currently attempting to follow a recipe off the internet that begins with "install an old version of the PC Kindle app, disconnect from the internet before running it so you can tell it not to auto-update itself, ...". Perhaps that will work.)

[EDITED to add:] Yup, looks like that has worked, though most of the titles and authors will need to be entered manually.

rand172• 1 year ago

I keep a file with details for myself that change every year, thanks to Amazon being a dick and I a moron for giving them money. I still use an older calibre version and a dedrm plugin fork, not the original.

hnpolicestate• 1 year ago

That quote really is true about present and future power moving society towards owning nothing.

Sounds awful and is awful for the user in practice.

nhod• 1 year ago

There was a post on HN a couple days ago about the launch of bookshop.org, which lets you buy e-books from your local bookseller. Good timing!

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43056526

daveoc646• 1 year ago

That's arguably got even more restrictive DRM than the Kindle Store.

And it's only available in the US.

zxcb1• 1 year ago

Solution: Buy physical books, then clone at home.

waonderer2• 1 year ago

How does one close a physical book into an ebook? Is it simple scanning? That won't allow selection, copying, or highlighting as easily.

metalman• 1 year ago

this feels like living in an alternate universe where instead of the guide changing it's moto from "dont panic" to "panic" we get a change of user agreement notification on e reader screens

gjm112• 1 year ago

For me, although this option is still there on Amazon's webpages, it doesn't actually work. I get a popup saying "You do not have any compatible devices registered for this content. Buy a Kindle or get the free Kindle reading app." (I already have the Kindle app on my phone.)

The files containing the book content appear to be on the phone (an Android device) and I can transfer them off it. Perhaps these are the same things that I would get on my computer if I were able to do "download and transfer"? So far as I can tell, however, there is no way to do anything with them. At least, if Calibre + the DeDRM plugin + the KFX input plugin are able to interpret them, then I have failed to find how to do so using Calibre's famously clear and intuitive user interface.

(This sort of thing is why I only "buy"[1] Kindle books when they are much, much cheaper than actual physical books.)

[1] To buy something is to give money to its owner, after which you become its owner. Whatever it is you do when you get access to a Kindle e-book, it isn't buying it; you own nothing more after handing over the money than you did before.

stevewodil• 1 year ago

To use download and transfer you are required to have a kindle device that supports it registered on your account (11th gen or older), so that's why the option doesn't show up for you.

If the files are .azw3 then it's the same

shirro• 1 year ago

I have a heap of graphic novels I bought for my kids that are basically unusable because Amazon moved everything into Kindle and I couldn't have them in a separate comixology app for my kids anymore and Kindle doesn't allow me to curate family books for kids as I wish. Lesson learned. No more Kindle/comixology/audible purchases in this household. I considered breaking the DRM but we never bought into their readers.

I think hard copies (not from Amazon) are the only reasonable non-infringing option for book lovers. Returning to real libraries to supplement individual purchases lets you access more content for your money and buying a physical copy that might be read once or twice is unsustainable.

If you have to do digital I think piracy is becoming the only reasonable answer. I always thought it was immoral to deprive authors of income if you could afford to do the right thing but with AI companies like Meta downloading terabytes of copyright content for their own commercial gain why should the rest of us feel guilty downloading for personal use?

Hackbraten2• 1 year ago

If you have to do digital I think piracy is becoming the only reasonable answer.

What I do is purchase the ebook and remove the DRM, so I can read it on whatever device I want. It may be illegal but would you really consider that piracy?

mcgrath_sh• 1 year ago

My library has an incredible selection of ebooks I can send straight to my Kindle. The process is less hassle than pirating, too. I get 90% or more of what I read on my Kindle from my library. The only books I buy are from a couple series I adore and always go back to and reference books. Those are few and far between.

diana-404• 1 year ago

I'm surprised no one here has mentioned about how Winterbreak can now jailbreak any kindle regardless of its firmware, this is the way to go if you wanna get out of Amazon's ecosystem

homarp• 1 year ago

see also All Kindles can now be jailbroken - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43073969

dwedge• 1 year ago

I didn't know that feature existed until I saw this. Downloaded all my books last night and now I'm able to switch ecosystem - an option I didn't think I had and probably never would have tried if they hadn't removed it.

swayvil• 1 year ago

Coincidentally, Libgen has been down for 4 days. Never saw that before.

Maybe the dark publishing forces are trying to corral their herd.

TruePath• 1 year ago

This is a problem that can only be fixed by legislation. Other things being equal DRM that's convenient for the vast majority increases book sales and consumers aren't willing to pay enough more for DRM free books to cover the difference -- much less understand the difference between 'owning' books and 'if we feel like it' licenses. And even if a general (i.e. not O'REILLY) ebook/ereader vender just wanted to do the right thing it's far from clear you could write a license that is flexible enough to allow pivoting with changing market conditions, get good deals with publishers but not so flexible as to be meaningless. And it's hard to sell a more expensive DRM free option alongside since, as the DRM free price goes up each sale is more likely to be sold to a 'pirate'.

Kindle is removing download and transfer option on Feb 26th

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