Install Windows the Arch Linux Way

https://christitus.com/install-windows-the-arch-linux-way/

by judiisis • 3 years ago

329 135 3 years ago

It's basically headless Windows, isn't it?

jpgvm• 3 years ago

No. This will produce a fully fledged GUI Windows install. All this is doing is bypassing the GUI install in favor of manually partitioning + formatting the disks and applying the system image to the partition, then skipping the OOBE (Out of Box Experience) so it can be configured normally with just a standard local account.

philwelch• 3 years ago

There are easier ways of accomplishing this.

anaisbetts• 3 years ago

If you create a USB install disk with Rufus, it will automatically allow you to create a local account which is pretty useful

SuperNinKenDo• 3 years ago

Cool. Some useful take home tricks from reading this too.

joemelonyeah2• 3 years ago

Microsoft actually has a guide for manual partitioning, which this guide does not follow. [1] The Microsoft guide cleans the whole disk and ensures the 100MB EFI partition is before the 16MB MSR partition.

[1] https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/manufactu...

tommica• 3 years ago

Huh, for some reason I expected it to be more complex, but this looks quite smooth

z3t4• 3 years ago

I installed Windows recently and it didn't want to create a partition. Tried all kind of black magic (you can do a lot of stuff using the tools on the install media). Finally I copied the windows usb onto the hdd and booted from it, that did the trick.

yomlica8• 3 years ago

I found this worked on my newer PC but did not work on my older z77 chipset based one, even though it supports support UEFI.

jcrben• 3 years ago

It mentions hitting Shift+F10. Wish it mentioned how to that non-interactively.

fodkodrasz• 3 years ago

You probably don't want to go down that rabbit hole. (trust me, I've done it, it is littered with footguns and sometimes incorrect documentation, and outdated advice. Lots of things are legacy, the docs are extensive but still only scratch the surface)

Search for unattended install, autounattend.xml, Windows System Image Manager, Windows Imaging Toolkit. Don't try to install WSIM from windows store, as that version doesn't work. (this alone can save half a day of debugging phantom problems). There are extensive docs on the topic, but they are sometimes incorrect, contain incorrect code, etc.

You can start from here: https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/customize...

pxc• 3 years ago

Seconding that unattended Windows installs, or even just customized Windows install media, are a giant pain in the ass. It's kind of fun to explore once but the amount of effort required to get to something that works doesn't feel worth it by the time you get there.

jcotton422• 3 years ago

You can do this with an unattend file [0], you can use the Windows ADK [1] to build one, or 3rd-party tools like NTLite [2].

[0] https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/manufactu... [1] https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/get-start... [2] https://www.ntlite.com/

greatcircle• 3 years ago

I installed Windows 10 the other week - it kinda blew my mind how poor the install experience was.

The iso contained files greater than 4GB, which breaks fat32, which I'm sure many people are still using on flash drives. So I had to use an MS cmd-line tool to split the wim files manually and edit the install files. Why doesn't the installer just use smaller archive files?

jcotton422• 3 years ago

So, it does... but only if it's made using the media creation tool. ISOs or USBs made with MCT use the better compressed ESD format for the install archive. Only the direct ISO download uses the less-compressed WIM.

baz00• 3 years ago

You can make an NTFS USB stick as well then run bootsect on it and it’ll boot. That’ll take wim files of any size.

vetinari7• 3 years ago

Only if:

- you want to boot in legacy mode (and your machine supports CSM)

- your UEFI firmware supports NTFS (only mandatory filesystem is FAT32).

Otherwise, if you want generic, UEFI boot media, you would have to find out how to boot from FAT32 partition and once your system runs, how to run installer from another partition.

0xcoffee• 3 years ago

I believe Microsoft provides the Media Creation Tool for this purpose.

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/create-installat...

ThatMedicIsASpy2• 3 years ago

For Windows. I don't know if it changed but if your browsers user agent is not Windows you'll always get access to the .iso file as direct download.

Windows iso these days can just be unpacked to a NTFS thumb drive.

pbhjpbhj• 3 years ago

But then you'd use the same method as installing other OS and people would realise installing a Linux distro is easy. Of course MS already made it much harder with secureboot and "accidentally" wiping Linux installs when you install it second.

Given the massive updates you immediately have to download, and the heavy push for only installing with an online account, there seems little reason to have anything beyond a minimal net installer on the USB stick.

Microsoft taught me to be this cynical about their motives over a few decades.

vladvasiliu2• 3 years ago

Meh, I don't have any love for windows, but IME newish versions seem quite well-behaved regarding Linux. Sure, they'll rewrite the UEFI boot order, but once you set it back to what you want, it leaves it alone.

The one thing I absolutely hate, is the recovery partition at the end of the main C: drive. So that if you want to grow the C drive, you have to jump through some ridiculous hoops to move the recovery partition. Had they put it the other way around, it wouldn't have been 0 pain. Even with a healthy dose of cynicism, I really don't know what purpose this could serve.

immanentize• 3 years ago

The title says arch and I remember trying to install it once and it's just like 'connect to wifi' and dumps me at the command line.

I managed to figure it out by digging through documentation but the installation experience was extremely rough compared to every Windows version I can remember.

dist-epoch• 3 years ago

You think Linux usage is not more widespread because people don't know that it's easy to install?

dataflow• 3 years ago

breaks fat32, which I'm sure many people are still using on flash drives

They're probably expecting exFAT instead?

RedShift1• 3 years ago

Use NTFS instead of FAT32?

boomboomsubban2• 3 years ago

Basically nothing compares to the portability of FAT based.

executesorder662• 3 years ago

No, use exFAT.

j-a-a-p• 3 years ago

There was a time when Linux distros tried to concur the desktop. For that they needed the normal user to re-install the OS. Windows never really had this challenge as Windows was and still is pre-installed.

To ease the self installation quite a few nice innovations were made. One is a easy and beautiful install process. Also remember the LiveCD and not sure if related but the UnionFS was also a smart idea to support LiveCD deployments.

gdprrrr• 3 years ago

The image contains the various editions (Home, Pro, etc) but only one language. Doesn't make sense to me as a company will like use one edition but possibly various languages.

gumballindie• 3 years ago

I tried installing it too, but oddly enough, it lacked drivers. Linux on the same machine runs flawlessly. I needed it for testing a new piece of software i am working on. I managed to install it after downloading a bunch of extras. Once installed it started downloading updates..and it went on and on and on. It’s such a low quality os it’s hilarious.

eru• 3 years ago

It's not a low quality OS in general; they just haven't really optimized the use case of people installing their OS from scratch.

Every organisation, commercial or otherwise, has finite resources. And the vast majority of their users would probably prefer they spend those limited resources on fixing things with a higher impact on them.

mananaysiempre• 3 years ago

oddly enough, [Windows] lacked drivers.

This is the situation with the upcoming 13-inch AMD Framework, by the way: apparently the official Windows 11 installation image doesn’t include drivers for the AMD/Mediatek RZ616 Wi-Fi card (2021), so they’re going to have to tell people to use Rufus to inject one. Fedora reportedly works out of the box.

gerdesj• 3 years ago

https://github.com/WoeUSB/WoeUSB - you give it an MS iso and where to put it on a USB stick and it will do the job using NTFS, which doesn't have snags with >4GB files.

vetinari7• 3 years ago

You can just copy the files, there is no need for tools to prepare boot media. UEFI will look for efi/boot/bootx64.efi file (on x64 arch) on your removable drive and boot that. There are no magic boot sectors anymore.

The issue is with filesystems recognized by UEFI firmwares. The only mandatory filesystem is FAT32. Some implementations (e.g. Intel systems) can read NTFS, but unless you are targeting such a system specifically, you get to use FAT32, period.

And here comes the issue with the Microsoft's ISO files: the install.wim file is larger than 4 GB. It is possible to split it into multiple wim files, or recompress into esd archive (which is what the Microsoft's tool does), thus fitting into FAT32 limit.

kwanbix2• 3 years ago

I imagine that very few people who use Windows have USBs on fat32. In fact, Windows format by defaults on NTFS with the option format on exFAT. There is no option fo format on FAT32, you need to use a specific tool. More so, most people just burn the iso to the usb, deleting everyhing on it.

vetinari7• 3 years ago

Windows ISO files are iso9660, so you cannot "burn them" into the usb; only to optical drive.

For USB, Microsoft provides media creation tool, which will format the usb to FAT32, and then copy the files there. As said elsewhere in this thread, it will use esd instead of wim container, which has better compression, so it will fit.

The install USB can be neither NTFS nor exFAT, because neither of these filesystems are recognized by UEFI (as mandatory filesystem, by UEFI spec; yes, some implementations can recognize NTFS, but as a system vendor, you cannot rely on that). So if you want to boot it on a all systems, FAT32 is it.

voltagex_2• 3 years ago

The installer is built for the Media Creation Tool, which handles this.

Other option: https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/manufactu...

Other other option: https://rufus.ie/en/

antihero• 3 years ago

fat32, which I'm sure many people are still using on flash drives

Why on earth would you do that? People have been using exFAT for many years now.

taway1237• 3 years ago

Isn't it still a default somewhere? I recently formatted a pendrive on Windows and somehow mindlessly selected FAT (and ofc had troubles down the road). I probably picked a default somewhere. And to respond your question:

Why on earth would you do that? People have been using exFAT for many years now.

Most people have no idea what FAT is. If presented a choicee between FAT, exFAT, NTFS and ext4 I'm certain they don't care, don't understand the implication, and would just click a random option. Which is OK, not everyone should be a IT expert, it's MS job to make the experience smooth.

edit: and a technical reason: i think FAT32 is the only guaranteed fs supported by UEFI

RGamma• 3 years ago

The Win10/11 setup uses 640x480 resolution or such nonsense on my system with 4k monitor, RX6*** card, so I have a teeny-tiny view of the interactive elements. Gave me a good laugh each time.

thfuran2• 3 years ago

which I'm sure many people are still using on flash drives

It's nearing twenty years since I stopped using fat32. I rather doubt that's a good assumption in the modern era.

bionade242• 3 years ago

At least in Germany all cheap USB sticks sold to average consumers in stores are still FAT32. I highly doubt they format different fs for different countries, the printing on the packaging indicates they're all sold EU-wide.

FAT32 is still very dominant & I wonder why Microsoft & Apple don't push the vendors to use exFAT. Users unaware of filesystems won't need their stick being recognized by the UEFI, but they will have files > 4GB.

NikolaNovak• 3 years ago

That is strange - I thought windows Media creator utility automatically formats usb to exactly what it needs. Even if i put I. fat32 or ext4 stick it'll create a working install.

runjake2• 3 years ago

Because you're supported to use NTFS, not FAT32. NTFS is the native format.

But you don't have to do all that. Use the Media Creation Tool:

https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/software-download/windows11/

Edit: Or even better, as degenerate comments below, use Rufus, which is what I use.

degenerate• 3 years ago

Or for more options use Rufus: https://rufus.ie/en/

zamadatix• 3 years ago

If you were supposed to use NTFS that's what the Media Creation tool would do. Instead it uses FAT32 and an image with superior compression (ESD). This is because FAT32 is the only required format for UEFI implementations to boot from.

Some advanced tools, and I'd recommend looking at Ventoy over Rufus, use an intermediate loader to mitigate that. Others just let you assume the board supports NTFS boot.

IE6• 3 years ago

anecdotally - I feel windows has gone the opposite direction and switched places with linux in terms of ease of installation. I've been using Linux for decades now but had to install Windows 11 for a gaming machine I built:

* I couldn't install windows 11 because it was "missing drivers" (this took me back to 95) * Tried installing Windows 10 instead thinking to eventually upgrade to 11 * Got stuck in an update loop where it tried to install update named like 2H02 ~20 times (I wasn't paying attention to what it was actually updating and just kinda kept trying to update it until it was finished) * Tried to troubleshoot the issue, tried a few things * Gave up, installed ubuntu, checked how well the game works on Steam and it ran OK

eloisant• 3 years ago

It's been that way for a long time now.

Linux distribution try to make installation as easy as possible because most people need to install it themselves.

Microsoft not caring about installation because most people buy it preinstalled on their PC.

SanjayMehta• 3 years ago

I’ve learnt the hard way that it’s best to let Windows do whatever it wants on the entire drive or virtual machine. Anything out of the ordinary gets broken in the next update.

Hardware is much cheaper than time.

vladvasiliu2• 3 years ago

It's not always a question of cost. I can't stand windows for my day-to-day job, but I do need it from time to time. Yet, my work provided laptop can only take one internal drive, and there's no way I'll lug around USB drives.

IME windows has worked well enough in a single-drive dual-boot config, even by evicting the original SecureBoot keys from the PC and replacing them with my own, with which I've also signed Windows' bootloader.

BxGyw2• 3 years ago

Just the other night I was looking at the way a Windows 10 install wrote the EFI partition to some random disk it was not installed on at all, and wishing for this, the GUI installer just does ridiculous shit and is really not up to par with even some no name Linux distro's Calamares. I have no idea why people buy this shit, it's Microsoft's luck that it comes preinstalled and most users never touch it

nottheengineer• 3 years ago

I found out that it did the same to me when I installed arch. Windows on one drive, EFI partition on a completely different one that has no reason to ever have an EFI partition.

klauserc• 3 years ago

Yeah, learnt that the hard way as well. "I'll install Windows on the new drive, copy over data from the old drive, then throw away the old drive - computer doesn't boot anymore because EFI boot partition randomly ended up on the old drive"

Since then, I always make sure to disconnect all drives except for the intended system drive when installing Windows.

jwells89• 3 years ago

I’ve had the Windows installer clobber the EFI partitions of Linux and macOS (hackintosh) installs on separate drives in the past, which is ridiculous. I now know to disconnect unrelated drives when installing Windows.

DistractionRect• 3 years ago

It cuts both ways. Most *nix installers will happily use the windows Efi partition and the only way to get it to use its own is to either deflag existing efi partitions or disconnect the drives

Zetobal2• 3 years ago

I don't even want to install Arch the Arch way.

tucosan• 3 years ago

I don't even want to install Arch the Arch way.

Then don't. You're simply not part of the target audience.

smabie• 3 years ago

I don't wanna install Arch the Arch way either, and I've been running Arch for over 10yrs

The Installation just sucks for no purpose. Actually it's worse than that they used to have a TUI installer but then removed it

gameoverhumans2• 3 years ago

It sounds like you're the kind of person who wants a computer that "just works" with user-friendly point/click software out of the box.

You're absolutely not the target audience of Arch Linux, nor this "Arch-like" Windows install guide.

Personally, I learned more about modern Linux userspace by following the Arch install process (and subsequently maintaining an Arch install for daily-driver use) than I ever did from 5+ years of using Ubuntu desktop.

Arisaka1• 3 years ago

I guess I'm not the target audience either because all I did was use the archinstall script that comes with the ISO and had an arch installation on btrfs with KDE up and running in about 5 minutes tops.

Zetobal2• 3 years ago

And I did it 2005 with gentoo and scratch... it's unnecessary and you could have learned the same using ubuntu or whatever distro without debugging your system. But you are right as a noob it probably helps to do everything by hand at least once. The most annoying part about Arch is that if you look in forums, reddit or mailinglits a lot of users don't really learn to debug. They fuck up their system and install from scratch... so in the end a lot of them are really good at installing Arch but nothing else.

leonheld• 3 years ago

I've used Linux for more than 15 years now and my salary depends on how good I am with Linux.

Although I agree you learn a lot with these distros, nowadays I just want something that works out of the box. If you spend years professionally bringing up Linux boxes, you don't want to it in your free time...

flanked-evergl2• 3 years ago

I don't even want to install Windows at all, yet M$ has made almost every business it's subordinate, where the businesses uncritically do what M$ demands of them while they pay M$ ungodly sums of money.

hospitalJail• 3 years ago

My workplace uses it, but I've been able to run a few small companies from Linux only. (One is very profitable, but its a medical company, its hard not to be profitable in Medical in the US. Two are barely profitable, the others are non-profits or havent launched yet.)

LibreOffice sucks, but it still does the job. I often use google docs/drive instead.

Everything else runs on Linux, my CAD, 3D printer, my video editing, AI Art. My workflow is easier/faster without dealing with forced Windows updates and having to sort my autosaves.

I think we are at the point, Linux can be a daily driver. I'm amazed to say this, for the last 15 years, I've been critical about how hard it is to maintain a linux distro. Today, I think its harder to manage a windows install, too many forced updates and malware/bloatware that are impossible to uninstall.

shortrounddev2• 3 years ago

You're living in 1999 dude. Amazon owns all the business infrastructure these days

itomato• 3 years ago

Isn’t this technically more like the VMS or CP/M way?

pyr0hu3• 3 years ago

Thanks for the article, just what I needed. I ran into a dreaded "Setup was unable to create a system partition" and couldn't find any solution, but with these steps, it worked!

mjevans• 3 years ago

The very best was for last... After all the files are in place but before the reboot (or even during setup if using offline media) remain offline until you've signed in.

In fact, don't even set a _password_ initially. Change that AFTER the first boot so the installer doesn't interrogate for recovery information / etc.

""" Bypass OOBE

The Out of Box Experience is changing all the time. The requirement to be online or only use a Microsoft account. Bypass it with this command and using Shift+F10 to bring up the command prompt. NOTE: DISCONNECT FROM INTERNET before booting!

oobe\BypassNRO

System will restart after executing the command. Select Continue with limited Setup and name the device and create a local account. """

deafpolygon• 3 years ago

I find it funny that the title is "the Arch Linux Way". I remember a time, as young man (in my 20s) when you couldn't reasonably expect a GUI installer for Linux. When Anaconda came out, that blew everybody's mind (at the time). It really depended on which distro-sphere you frequented as I know there were newer graphical installers that came before Anaconda, but were not as widely distributed.

nullindividual• 3 years ago

Tip: diskpart.exe only needs the first three letters of a command:

ass letter=c

Certain subcommands also support three letters, such as create partition primary:

cre par pri

runjake2• 3 years ago

This method is obviously exploratory and tongue-in-cheek but Titus has a great, more serious Windows 11 installation and configuration post and YouTube video here:

https://christitus.com/windows-11-perfect-install/

lakomen• 3 years ago

Why would I want that when I have a GUI?

timetraveller26• 3 years ago

Look what they need to mimic a fraction of our power

pyrophane• 3 years ago

It is nice to know that there is still a simple-ish way to bypass linking your account to a Microsoft Account at install time.

A couple of days ago I was reinstalling Windows on a machine that was new enough that the wireless drivers weren't available on install, and was surprised that the installer just would not let me proceed with the install like used to.

Of course, even if you manage to install Windows with a local-only account, that doesn't mean that it is going to be easy to keep it that way. At least you'll get to have your choice of username, though!

consoomer• 3 years ago

The thing is, no one says, "I use Windows, btw."

yonatan8070• 3 years ago

If you install Windows a lot, get yourself an answer file for unattended installs (you can generate one oneline). It turns all the clicking and typing into booting the ISO (potentially through Ventoy, which would allow you to pick between answer files), and waiting for the desktop to show up

jakogut• 3 years ago

This reminds me of a tool I built a number of years ago to do unattended installs of Windows over PXE, for an IT services company I worked for at the time. It completed much faster than using DVDs or thumb drives, and could serve many machines at once.

https://github.com/jakogut/kiwi

Install Windows the Arch Linux Way

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