Car-sharing service HiGear shuts down due to theft of 4 cars worth $400,000

http://techcrunch.com/2012/01/01/luxury-car-sharing-service-higear-shuts-down-due-to-theft/

by tfe • 15 years ago

152 143 15 years ago

techcrunch.com

ryanmarsh• 15 years ago

Sadly not surprising.

DevX101• 15 years ago

I briefly thought about starting a business like this a couple years ago.

During this thought exercise I came to the conclusion that an embedded GPS would be essential to maintain security.

Another idea would be making your social network your security system, by only allowing rentals to people within two degrees of separation on a social networking site.

dmix• 15 years ago

> by only allowing rentals to people within two degrees of separation on a social networking site

Thereby increasing the chicken and egg problem ten fold

jerf• 15 years ago

Not only that; what value is the middle man bringing in that situation, vs. "Hey, Bob, can I borrow your car for a while? Here's some cash."? Non-zero? Sure, but probably not enough to capture and survive on.

slug2• 15 years ago

GPS would be useless for a determined thief, be it by simply jamming the GPS/cell signal or a RF sniffer to locate the (cellphone/whatnot) transmitter in the car and destroy it. From what I see, your social network sanction would be the only feasible option.

dennisgorelik18• 15 years ago

You probably meant "expert thief". Somebody who had 10000+ hours of expertise. Somebody who risked to get caught while gaining that expertise.

There are not so many real expert thieves. That's why extended security measures do work: less experienced majority of thieves is caught outright, and more experienced minority of thieves is eventually caught due to unforeseen circumstances (unexpected witness, unexpected new security measure, etc.).

For example, GPS transmitter can stay silent until it gets "You are stolen" signal.

There could be more than one transmitter in a car. It may get activated only when on the move (and not in a garage) etc.

asanwal• 15 years ago

I was surprised by the founder spending time in his letter to users talking positively about other players in the space (RelayRides, GetAround) and why their car sharing models should still work.

He didn't have to do this, but it struck me as a nice and unexpected gesture.

ww520• 15 years ago

It's nice of him.

The Valley or startup scene is a small world. If his company doesn't work out, he/they can always work for the others.

usaar3333• 15 years ago

I've been considering renting my car out on those services (absolutely love the idea) and I do wonder what impact this will have on those two. There are some high-end cars on GetAround (I've seen at least an M3) and I imagine that people kicked out of HiGear may move to them.. creating the exact same problem.

m0nastic5• 15 years ago

That's sad to hear, but I think he's right to realize that it's going to be really hard to deal with losses when the auto theft community gets wind of their business.

I am always amazed by the efficiency and technological prowess that the kids I grew up with who steal cars apply to their trade (even if I wish they were involved in a better trade).

One kid I grew up with now has a ring of six guys working for him, paying good benefits and matching retirement accounts, where all they do are steal Honda Civics. Just that model. I swear he's implemented Kaizen into his workflow.

smhinsey• 15 years ago

Are you joking about the matching contributions to a retirement account part? If not I would be really curious to see how that works in that context. Not that I'm expecting a textbook on the subject or anything.

m0nastic5• 15 years ago

No, I'm dead serious.

Colin (the aforementioned kid I grew up with) figured it was easier to attract good talent and keep them happy if he treated his operation like a professional job.

So, he employs his team through an auto-repair shop, where they're full-time employees with full benefits and he sets them up with a 401k (that he matches up to some percentage of, I don't know the number). That's pretty much unheard of among actual mechanics, never mind car thieves.

And he gets to cherry-pick his team, and they like the stability and "legitimate"-ness of the operation.

He's been doing it for a while, so his numbers must make it a good decision financially (he has elaborate spreadsheets of every facet of his business).

The most "boss" I ever got to look to impress a girl was in college when a friend of mine went out to Boston on a Friday and ended up at the end of the night having her car stolen. She calls me all upset, and I think, "Maybe I can see if Colin can get her car back."

So I call her an hour later and let her know that if she goes to a specific T-station parking lot, her car will be there. She calls me later and lets me know that, it is, indeed there, and there's a case of beer in the passenger seat with a note saying "Sorry".

Nerdy, adolescent me felt like a puffer fish that had puffed itself up.

dennisgorelik18• 15 years ago

The problem with running criminal business is that as soon as he tries to scale, he would inevitably and very seriously piss off lots of people.

That would put extra pressure on law enforcement to catch the thieves and they would eventually be caught.

Next step is several years in jail and close monitoring of the future crime activities.

End result - the only expertise that he would gain over the years (in stealing) would be not marketable.

m0nastic5• 15 years ago

So, there are artificial constraints to the scalability of an operation like his.

For starters, all territory is split up among the different crews who run them. That they do this democratically and unanimously without anyone muscling in on surrounding territory is something I've never quite figured out; but it's been working for forty years.

That limitation on potential territory makes you maximize your resources in the geographic areas you control. You get to the point where you know the best neighborhoods for your guys to work based on time-of-day, holidays, local sports schedules, which neighborhoods are composed of people who primarily have others over for the holidays, vs. which neighborhoods primarily go somewhere else to celebrate, etc.

So there is a pretty small limit to how large an operation like that gets, but he's able to pay for his house, send his kids all to private school, and ensure they all can go to any college they want.

It's a decent "lifestyle business", minus the fact that it's a terrible thing to do to people, and unbelievably dangerous.

sathishmanohar5• 15 years ago

>> The problem with running criminal business is that as soon as he tries to scale, he would inevitably and very seriously piss off lots of people.

Why would he want to scale? To launch an IPO? Come on Bro.

CamperBob• 15 years ago

Next step is several years in jail and close monitoring of the future crime activities.

The real problem is the ridiculously lax penalties for car theft in many jurisdictions. In the Seattle, WA area, you basically don't even see the inside of a cell until your third or fourth conviction. (One news article I found at http://community.seattletimes.nwsource.com/archive/?date=200... contains a quote to the effect that a thief would have to be caught stealing up to seven cars before being punished with prison time.)

Given the lack of interest in auto theft on the part of the legislature, it's not surprising that such crimes don't arouse much interest on the part of law enforcement. As a result there are plenty of large metro areas where an organized auto theft ring could be quite profitable.

kinkora2• 15 years ago

I apologise for being a lil off topic but I do have a question for you. Before I ask that question, let me tell you a story.

When I was growing up, I knew this girl who works part time at a cinema. Her job is basically to clean up the place after everyone has left once the movie has ended. While cleaning up the place, 7 out of 10 times, she will find something someone has left behind and out of that 7 times, probably 2 items will be valuable (wallet, mobile phones, jewellery, etc). Instead of returning it to their respective owners, she ALWAYS pocket anything that is valuable with the excuse of finders keepers.

When I found out about what she does, I had a moral dilemma. I knew she probably did it because she (to make a long story short), had a very unfortunate and underprivileged life so she just found a quick and easy (albeit illegal) way to supplement her pay. Yet at the same time, I knew what she was doing was wrong and I contemplated telling the authorities about her but couldn't bring myself to do it because she trusted me enough (i've always helped her in dire times) to tell me about it.

Now, here is my question. Do you ever feel that you should report your friend knowing he is breaking the law? Do you find yourself in a moral dilemma knowing that you know a person committing a crime but you have not (i assumed) turn him in?

m0nastic5• 15 years ago

So, where I grew up, everybody was a criminal. I don't mean that hyperbolically either. Everyone in my family (mostly bottom-of-the-barrel criminals, but a few actual bad-ass criminals), every other kid who lived in my neighborhood. All criminals.

My older brother ran away from home when he was 15, partially to get away from all of that. I stayed until I was 17, but left for much the same reason.

If I felt obliged to report everyone in my history who has broken the law (or made it a habit of breaking the law), I would have quite possibly spent thousands of dollars on phone calls to the police.

I removed myself from the moral dilemma by going far away from all of that and not going back. I've been a boring nerd for the past twelve years.

nostromo• 15 years ago

Not to be overly prudish, but as someone that has had a car stolen -- not recently, but when I was right out of high school, completely broke and using it to get to work (where there wasn't any public transportation option) -- I'd really encourage you to turn in your friend. You may think it's not your problem, but you're complicit in those crimes and acting very unethically.

chrischen2• 15 years ago

I can see how it can be a difficult situation for him to turn in his friend, but it's only because he's detached from the situation.

m0nastic: Just think of the people who have their cars stolen, and tell yourself that every time they steal a car and you don't turn him in then you've essentially helped screw that person over. That person could be someone just like nostromo.

Imagine young nostromo, coming to you for help. What would you do? Who would you side with? Every time they steal a car it's the same situation, except the victim may not personally know you so they won't come asking you for help.

vaksel2• 15 years ago

I had one of my old cars semi-stolen. Luckily I took a few precautions and had a hidden fuel pump kill switch wired up(since the Integra was a very high target for thieves).

So they only got 20 feet away before the car died on them.

Wiring one up is real easy, takes like 20 minutes, all you have to do is pull the rear seats out, cut the wire and extend the wire to the switch.

sathishmanohar5• 15 years ago

Its ok... Thats why god gave us car insurance..

alanfalcon2• 15 years ago

The 1995 Honda Civic is the most stolen car in America. At least, it topped the list when I last looked into it as a result of my brother in law having his 1995 Honda Civic stolen from the third floor of a casino parking garage in Las Vegas. This was on Christmas, and his car was full of the presents that he and his family had received that year. They were covered with a blanket and it's unlikely that the thieves knew what they were getting, but they got quite the "bonus" from that job. We watched the security camera footage as the thieves walked up to the car and got into it and drove off within 60 seconds. The thieves were not caught and the shell of the car was found a week later abandoned on the side of a road. There was a lesson for my brother in law to not load his presents into his car until he's actually going out the door to begin his eight hour drive back to Reno, but it was a very expensive and very heartbreaking lesson to learn.

Please, if anyone knows someone who is willing to do this to another human being, make it stop. You have the power to prevent a loved one's Christmas from becoming a nightmare, use it. Please?

gonzo• 15 years ago

It doesn't take 8 hours to drive from Vegas to Reno.

I had my brother's Tahoe stolen out of a hotel parking lot in Vegas. (I bought him a new truck.)

sliverstorm3• 15 years ago

Do you actually need tech? I have locked myself out of several cars. It rarely takes me more than a few minutes to get back in, even if the best tool I've got is a tree branch.

po• 15 years ago

How can Techcrunch say "the group stole four cars totaling $400,000" and then immediately print a letter from the company saying "The total value of these cars was around $300,000"? Even though in this case it's ok if you read the letter, it is the kind of thing that makes me feel like I shouldn't rely on Techcrunch's reporting. It's really not a big deal but how did that happen? Why are the numbers different?

zacharytamas2• 15 years ago

I've noticed this too. There have been several cases in the past few months where when reading TechCrunch I was like "Wait, what?".

protomyth2• 15 years ago

The Red vs Arri lawsuit story they ran felt that way. It looked like it was cribbed off the Reuters report. It struck me like the author didn't actually read the papers filed in the lawsuit. The biggest issue was the lack of reporting on the accusation that Arri sabotaged a Red One on the set of a movie. The original report was written before court papers were available (I think), but the TechCrunch story was posted well after court papers were available. It just seems like they are getting sloppy nd not checking things.

lukejduncan• 15 years ago

Tech reporting itself is pretty bad. TechCrunch, Business Insider, etc are essentially tabloids.

jerrya2• 15 years ago

It's drug money like reporting.

In this case, three old Datsuns were stolen, reported to the police as four recent Jaguars, who wrote down five Porsches, and finally reported as 1 Veyron.

veyron• 15 years ago

Let me assure you, I'm still here :P

Most likely they reported based on original MSRP (likely around 400K) rather than current value (300K)

rbanffy• 15 years ago

Much like what we did to airlines, the web does not optimize for good reporting.

I'm not sure how to solve it.

jackowayed2• 15 years ago

I felt worse for these guys until I read to the end of the letter and found out about the "HiGear girls". It's not quite as bad as I thought because they don't seem to "rent out" these models like they do cars; I guess it was just a publicity thing. But still, having revealing pictures and even stats (measurements) of the women is pretty much the definition of objectification.

FOLLOWUP (responding to comments): I'm not concerned about the women in the pictures. They freely chose it, and made enough money to make it worth it to them.

But things that reinforce the societal ideal that women's value comes from being conventionally attractive is much more deeply damaging than most people realize. It leads to the body image issues that the majority of young women grapple with. Anything that makes it seem like numbers define how attractive you are is especially bad, because it makes it harder for people to accept their own non-ideal bodies as beautiful. It encourages young women to spend vast amounts of their free time learning about and working on being attractive rather than, say, tinkering with computers. To some extent, it leads to income inequality between men and women (Girls grow up with the message that pleasing men, by being attractive among other ways, is good, so they tend to up more passive in many situations. This makes them less willing to negotiate for salary, less willing to go out of their way to take credit for their work, etc. It also leads to other bad things like being less willing to say no to sex.)

I like seeing racy pictures of girls as much as the next guy, but displays of women like this, especially right next to and in the same format as rental listings, encourages societal ideals that are at the root of most of the gender-related problems in our society.

schwit• 15 years ago

"having revealing pictures and even stats (measurements) of the women is pretty much the definition of objectification."

So what? I don't recall reading anything that indicates these women were forced to do anything against their will.

mattdeboard2• 15 years ago

Sexy cars and pin-up girls have gone hand-in-hand for generations, and probably always will. Are you really outraged at the notion of dudes wanting to look at hot girls?

notJim2• 15 years ago

I believe your parent finds the notion of using objectification of women to rent cars distasteful. I know I do. Just as many find the Godaddy girls distasteful.

rmc6• 15 years ago

Just because something has happened for ages doesn't make it right. Societies change (e.g. we let women and the common man vote now).

(Also, not all men want gto look at hot girls)

packetslave• 15 years ago

"having revealing pictures and even stats (measurements) of the women is pretty much the definition of objectification."

I imagine if the women in question didn't want to be objectified, they were free to not accept the money.

yanowitz2• 15 years ago

(Three replies essentially all said the same thing. I'll respond to this one.)

Enslavement should not be the standard by which we assess the effect of such actions. Under capitalism, we should expect to see people trading their labor (or image) for money.

The more interesting questions include: why is this marketing pursued? How does it fit into a tapestry of cultural "norms" that objectify and demean women? What effect does it have on all the people (men and women, boys and girls) who "consume" it?

The origins and continued existence of "car chicks", "beer girls", and "booth babes" has nothing to do with empowering women by creating new labor niches. It is a reflection and extension of a sexist society and culture.

yanowitz2• 15 years ago

I came here to post this too. I felt bad for them until I got to the "girls" part, at which point I didn't feel bad.

Although they didn't go out of business because of their sexist business practices, I don't shed a tear for them.

Yes, this is a marketing stunt, but I hope the day comes when the cost of this marketing outweighs the benefit (i.e., more people find the objectification of women offensive to the point of changing their purchasing decision than people who find it appealing).

This is related to a common theme on HN: discussions of why there are not more women in tech and tech leadership positions.

mattdeboard2• 15 years ago

No, it's completely unrelated. The only topic this is related to is, "Why do people care so much what women do, of their own free will, with their bodies?"

burgerbrain6• 15 years ago

I wonder what your opinion is on baseball cards.

rmc6• 15 years ago

There isn't a history of baseball players being systematically repressed.

Also all baseball players chose to be baseball players, and can easily choose to leave and not be in the group of 'baseball players'. Not so with women.

rokhayakebe2• 15 years ago

"having revealing pictures and even stats (measurements) of the women is pretty much the definition of objectification."

Interesting. What do you think about the info on Eharmony, Match and other dating sites: age, height, athletic, curvy, this, that? Objectification?

beedogs• 15 years ago

So you've decided to pick the most incongruous example possible (dating websites) to undermine his point that a car-sharing site was objectifying women?

lionhearted• 15 years ago

Well, c'mon, can we be real here? If a guy is paying $600 to $900 to rent a car for a few hours, he's probably trying to get girls or close a business deal. People don't do that just to hang out with their buddy, unless they've got silly-money, in which case they just own their own cars.

Also, some of the shots were rather tasteful (others, not so much, but this one for instance) -

http://www.higear.com/images/our_community/shar_large/shar_0...

zerostar072• 15 years ago

That's just perpetuating stereotypes that (i 'd like to think) we are now over with: Fancy cars make men rich, Girls drool over money, Cars are penis extensions. This was a service for douchebags, I 'm glad there weren't enough of them to keep it running.

joshu• 15 years ago

I rent higher end stuff than higear offered. Way cheaper than owning. I just drive them around.

Anyone that has financial sense and/or understands the hedonic treadmill will understand why.

Fwiw the place I use doesn't have pictures of women with cars anywhere....

scrrr• 15 years ago

Parent and some others in this thread: What is wrong with you?? (Sorry, just typing out my initial thought when I read this page verbatim.) It's just marketing involving some attractive girls standing next to cars..

I don't understand why such comments get so many upvotes, really. And where such sentiment comes from. I really wonder if my parent comment's poster should claim to understand the problems of the majority of young women and the society impact of such pictures.

Shenglong• 15 years ago

it makes it harder for people to accept their own non-ideal bodies as beautiful

That's because usually (if not always) non-ideal bodies are not beautiful. I feel like there's a giant disconnect between people like you (sweeping generalization, no offense intended) and people around me. You see a girl with some extra weight and you may think she should ignore it, and hop on a computer. Here, most (yes, most) of the girls go to the gym and exercise.

Also, often the girls aren't even trying to please men. One friend of mine spends a lot of her time making Youtube videos on nail decoration. Do her thousands of followers think men will be irresistibly attracted to the detailed glitter polish on their nails? No.

I understand your desire to make the genders equal, but I think you're being blinded because of it.

usaar3333• 15 years ago

(note: This is incredibly OT. I think it is perfectly reasonable for HiGear to have models on hand to use in the photo shoots with the cars. This just addresses social points of general objectification)

| You see a girl with some extra weight and you may think she should ignore it, and hop on a computer. Here, most (yes, most) of the girls go to the gym and exercise.

And few would argue that isn't a healthy behavior. I'm guessing GP is more concerned when women use potential harmful means to make themselves better looking (eating disorders, plastic surgery, etc.). That said even in most cases that is more just a manifestation of low self-esteem/confidence - which said women would show in other ways if society cared less about appearance.

rmc6• 15 years ago

That's because usually (if not always) non-ideal bodies are not beautiful

people have different tastes. just look at gay men and straight men. they find different things attractive. there is no perfectly sexy/beautiful type. it's all subjective. for every person, there's someone who thinks they are beautiful.

jackowayed2• 15 years ago

This isn't just a matter of girls who actually are kind of ugly having body image problems. That's still bad (they should value it less highly, they often underestimate how attractive they are, etc.)

But a lot of women, especially those around high school age, are just completely irrational in this realm. I know lots of women who are very attractive in conventional ways but aren't happy with their bodies. They think they're too fat because their stomach isn't totally flat, even though they look just as good as if they were that skinny, and they're only 5 or 10 pounds off. They think their breasts are too small. They fixate on small imperfections like a little bit of acne.

This all happens because society puts forward an airbrushed ideal of perfection that they're told to strive for even though it's totally unattainable. They see all of the small ways they could be better without taking a step back and realizing how attractive they really are. The fact that lots of men are interested in them doesn't convince them otherwise. They'll claim those men just like them because they're nice, or that the men are just interested in anyone who they think will put out, or some other mediocre excuse.

rimantas2• 15 years ago

Please, stop this crap. Or ban pictures of man and woman: god forbid someone will find them attractive! Attractive people are attractive, deal with it. Your last two paragraphs are just speculation.

  > Girls grow up with the message that pleasing men,
  > by being attractive among other ways, is good

Cannot tell, if this is more naive or stupid. Girls grow up knowing that by being attractive they will be able manipulate men, not to please them :)

goblin89• 15 years ago

> Things that reinforce the societal ideal that women's value comes from being conventionally attractive is much more deeply damaging than most people realize.

AFAIK being conventionally attractive comes from being a healthy individual. For a long time we were selecting our mate by (in large part) how healthy he/she is, and getting rid of that habit wouldn't to any good to humans long term, I guess.

(In fact, it would arguably do more good if such ‘objectification’ was common for men.)

paganel• 15 years ago

> I like seeing racy pictures of girls as much as the next guy, but displays of women like this, especially right next to and in the same format as rental listings, encourages societal ideals that are at the root of most of the gender-related problems in our society

Well, it can very easily go both ways. Just in the last week I was asked by 2 different women (rather smart, otherwise) about "how much I earn". I honestly didn't know how to explain to them that at this early point in getting to know someone how much the person in front of you earns has no significance whatsoever.

nandemo• 15 years ago

On the contrary, it does have significance. Middle-class women don't usually date lower class men. If you live in a country or area where the class divide is significant this will obvious.

The problem is not that they care about how much money you make, but that they were too clumsy on their "investigation".

jerrya2• 15 years ago

I like seeing racy pictures of girls as much as the next guy

Think globally, act locally, I say, and those look like women to me, and adults, not girls.

I think you have some work to do on your own before judging HiGear.

SkyMarshal• 15 years ago

And there's a flip side to female objectification - male zombification. As a modern male, I'm pretty damn sick of 'sex sells', especially when the thing being sold has nothing whatsoever to do with sex.

Want to use racy ads and associations to try to get me to buy lingerie for my gf, or condoms from your website? Ok fine. But, ahem, Godaddy, are you seriously trying to persuade me to buy internet domains from you using a sex sells strategy? Godaddy girls? Really? I couldn't think of anything less relevant.

But that's the problem - when men are bombarded with messages and images that link things that have no connection whatsoever, over time it actually does create a connection by weakening the critical faculties necessary to reject the association in the first place, and makes men more vulnerable to manipulation, power of suggestion, etc.. Moreso in some men than others.

Sex is one of the most powerful concepts to link to totally irrelevant products or services since it triggers our ape subroutines. See the same associations enough, and when it actually comes time to evaluate a purchase or other decision, those ape subroutines have more influence and control vs. your reasoning and critical faculties than they should. This effect is pervasive and pernicious.

So, the flip side of female objectification is male zombification, or a weakening of critical and reasoning faculties. It's not just females that suffer from female objectification in the media.

ChrisNorstrom3• 15 years ago

Fixed that for you:

But things that reinforce the societal ideal that men's value comes from being conventionally big and strong is much more deeply damaging than most people realize. It leads to the body image issues that the majority of young men grapple with. Anything that makes it seem like numbers define how tall and strong you are is especially bad, because it makes it harder for men to accept their own non-ideal bodies as strong. It encourages young men to spend vast amounts of their free time learning about and working on being strong and muscular rather than, say, being productive, peaceful, starting a family. To some extent, it leads to happiness inequality between men and women (men grow up with the message that being emotionless is good, so they tend to keep emotions, feelings, pain hidden. This makes them less willing to seek help for depression, anger management problems, and more willing to be violent to get what they want. It also leads to other bad things like having no self discipline over their sex drive and thinking it's ok to fuck anything that moves, thus resulting in divorce, embarrassment, and losing millions of dollars and destroying their political careers or livelihood. ex: tiger woods and the countless other men like him who had it all and fucked it up.)

I like seeing racy pictures of shirtless guys as much as the next girl, but displays of men like this, especially wrestling action figures, or overly muscular super heroes, encourages societal ideals that are at the root of most of the gender-related problems in our society.

(not that you were wrong, just showing you the opposite)

bane2• 15 years ago

A surprisingly fragile business model. I've wondered how Zipcar et al. haven't been killed by this? Or have they just done a better job at figuring theft into their model as a cost?

rdouble• 15 years ago

Not many car thieves want to steal a Scion xB with a giant ZipCar logo on the side.

bane2• 15 years ago

My understanding is (and I could be completely wrong in this) is that most low end cars are stolen for the parts, not the car.

rm445• 15 years ago

A surprisingly fragile company. There are plenty of thriving car hire companies (and yes, you can hire high-end vehicles).

troll24601• 15 years ago

Because ZipCar owns the cars, they're able to take stronger precautions to track and to prevent theft. HiGear's model opened a wide range of attacks against the customer cars, some of them hard to tie to HiGear.

I wouldn't be surprised if the total theft from HiGear is more than 4 cars, but that some of the other thefts either haven't happened yet, or weren't easily tied to the HiGear service.

signa11• 15 years ago

a silly question, but isn't there any insurance on the said cars ? if the cars are lost/stolen etc. and they do have insurance, let the insurance company deal with law-enforcement or other 'out-of-band' mechanisms (too many hollywood movies) to retrieve the stolen property...

sounds2• 15 years ago

The insurance premiums will go up.

The problem is that the cars are owned not by HiGear but by wealthy clients who want to rent out their car (instead of having it sit in a garage). The cars have sentimental value. They may be customized and difficult/impossible to replace.

I suppose there are already businesses that don't use a Peer-to-Peer model. If it's just a matter of arranging rentals in a more traditional model, and only for wealthy customers, I don't even have to google -- it's been done before.

kd1220• 15 years ago

It's been done before, but I think the result the same. I met with a guy who was a co-owner of a luxury car rental service in South Florida. He wanted help with implementing a tracking system, but I passed up the job. He started the company back in late 2008, and it had gone under some time early in 2011.

I saw him again recently and asked why the business went bust. To paraphrase him: "High overhead and picky customers." Turns out people who rent exotic cars want the newest and latest cars, not older models (unless it's vintage/classics they're looking for, but that's another beast). So you have to keep your stable fresh. Trying to offload exotics is a pain, because there's a specific type of person who will buy a used exotic: a nouveau rich man with more pride than financial management skills.

The kicker was when he told me that if he ever decides to launder money, he'll start another luxury rental place, because it would be perfect for that.

vaksel2• 15 years ago

the problem seems to be with verification not the business model itself.

so they should just tweak it to make it work...there are hundreds of supercar rental companies, so just copy them.

mrlinx• 15 years ago

The title had me thinking 400,000 per car. The article corrected me to 400,000 total. The founder email corrected me further to 300,000 total.

notatoad• 15 years ago

Why does a car sharing service that can't afford a $400k loss have 4 $100k cars.

nano81• 15 years ago

Misses the point. It's not the $400k loss that put them out of business, it's the realization that this will be an ongoing issue they will have to deal with as organized criminals target them, and they don't have a good solution. Their model is highly vulnerable, and they don't have an answer.

ljf• 15 years ago

They don't and didn't own the cars they rented.

xaxa2000• 15 years ago

another dumb vc sponsored idea fails, 290120 left...

shin_lao• 15 years ago

Why don't they require the peers to provide them with a bank account and then check up with the bank?

It would require setting up a false bank account with enough money. That's harder than false ID and stolen credit card.

If the above isn't enough, add an income statement.

Then you get billed for how much you use the car.

jermaink• 15 years ago

The services should act like Airbnb did when they experienced 'bad user behaviour'. Adding security/verification/security features (2nd degree FB connections, Twitter, camera shot, webcam shot...) and marketing them as a new core competency of the service. They did a bad press turnaround in less than 3 weeks.

sarbogast• 15 years ago

For me, their main problem is that they relied on traditional bank accounts and government-certified IDs to check identities. And we all know those ID's are easy to fake. Collaborative consumption needs a stronger identity, certification and reputation platform, one that does not isolate reputation profiles into silos and doesn't rely on unscalable certification authorities. And that's exactly what we are working on with peertru.st

So if you are interested in this, let us know. This is the first pillar after all: http://blog.kodesk.com/2011/11/01/the-three-pillars-of-colla...

16s• 15 years ago

They should remain in business, but add a fingerprint requirement. This would stop criminals from pretending to be law-abiding citizens. Documents and identities are easy to steal or forge, but in-person fingerprints that match those documents are much more difficult to forge.

Edit: This is why background checks without fingerprints are not very meaningful. The check may be on a clean identity, not the criminal.

shabble• 15 years ago

The costs of running a manned fingerprinting system would be pretty heavy and hard to scale, I imagine, not to mention inconvenient for users.

Without some skilled operator attending closely, there are all manner of ways to fake fingerprints on both electronic and traditional ink systems. If it's going to net you a $100k car, the incentive is probably sufficient that someone would do it.

Car-sharing service HiGear shuts down due to theft of 4 cars worth $400,000

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