Hungry Academy - get paid to learn Ruby

by jeremymcanally • 15 years ago

254 162 15 years ago

bdunn• 15 years ago

Awesome idea! I'm very interested to see how this plays out, as my shop (along with quite a few others that I'm aware of) are combating the shortage through apprenticeship programs. This looks like to be a super-structured version of just that.

Congrats to Chad Fowler, Jeff Casimir, and everyone else involved.

j334• 15 years ago

I'll do my best to answer questions as they pop-up here today, but please feel free to email me at (contact at jumpstartlab) dot com if you want to know more.

elomar2• 15 years ago

Sounds like a great opportunity. Is it open to non-US citizens? :)

j334• 15 years ago

Yes! We can work on the visas for exceptional candidates.

darushimo• 15 years ago

When does the five-month program start?

chadfowler2• 15 years ago

Early March

gexla• 15 years ago

Dang, you guys had to mention being hungry. I'm hungry, but that's because the GF hasn't come home with our food yet.

When is the deadline for the applications?

Edit: Downvoters, seriously? Isn't this a legit question? Just ignore the part about me being hungry. I'm just reading through hacker news while waiting for my GF to get back with my cheeseburger.

gyardley• 15 years ago

The deadline, January 9th, is in a rather large font on a big blue button in the middle of the linked page.

dzohrob• 15 years ago

Are you paying people regardless of whether they receive/accept a job offer from you?

j334• 15 years ago

I'm not privy to all the HR details, but you're paid during the program, expected to join the team afterwards, and to stay for 18 months.

I don't know what happens, exactly, if you finish the program then say "Seeya suckers!" But I'll probably cry, and that's mean :p

Inufu2• 15 years ago

You mentioned that people will be payed during the training - what range are we talking about?

About the mandatory 18 month work - how is pay worked out for that? Before training starts?

I'm currently considering to apply, as I'm completely bored here with my CS and Economics bachelor. (Europe) I'd love to finally have some challenge :)

j334• 15 years ago

I don't have permission to talk specific numbers in public and it's not really my part of the program -- but expect the during program salary to be a reasonable living wage in our expensive city and the full post-academy salary to be at or above other beginning developer positions.

exim• 15 years ago

Do you have an option for remote commitment? (outside USA and not willing to relocate during learning period)

Also, is it possible to learn only Ruby, without Rails? While I find Ruby a very interesting language, I'm not really interested in web development.

j334• 15 years ago

The program is onsite-only and the content is directed by what you need for the LivingSocial engineering team, which means Ruby, Rails, and many other related technologies. Sorry!

taytus• 15 years ago

Hi there, I love this initiative. I'll apply but my English is not perfect :S Should I be worried?

sdoering3• 15 years ago

Is it just me, or is it just the cultural difference (I am from germany, where we - god be blessed - have laws against these kind of hours)- but if I am expected to work 70h+/week in this thing, I belive, the same would be expected if anyone gets that job.

Well done. slavery seems back at last.

jeremymcanally• 15 years ago

They're being paid. I think the slavery charge is a bit much.

Plus, you don't know the program structure. That may include homework/group sort of stuff in addition to work and instruction. It'll be like 5 months of college with a job. It's no different if you actually calculate the time investment.

oinksoft2• 15 years ago

18-month commitment required

j334• 15 years ago

That's fair. We wanted to make sure people know this isn't just "show up at 9, leave at 5." There are significant outside of the workday tasks like hacking on projects, reading books, meeting with colleagues, and teaching Ruby to kids.

But I'm not chaining anyone to a desk for 70 hours because _I_ don't want to live that way, either.

sdoering3• 15 years ago

OK, than I am totally OK with this. Because, if I look at my "work"-week, i do have 70+ hours. 40 - 50 @work, 20 - 25 refurbishing our house, 5 - 10 reading/learning new things, mostly while commuting. and for good measure, I would throw in the occasional (3 times per week+) blogposting.

So I really hope, you can find the right, dedicated person. If it wasn't for the "refurbishing the house" part of my life, I would ask, to join, just for the sake of learning RoR.

thebrokencube• 15 years ago

Wait, you'd get to teach Ruby to kids? I'll be honest, all of the things for the program sound really awesome, but this is by far the most appealing point for me. I remember hearing a saying/quote which went along the lines of "if you can't explain something to someone else, then you don't really know the material", and I tend to agree with this sentiment for the most part.

I think this is a great opportunity you guys are providing for the community, and I look forward to applying to the program.

darklajid• 15 years ago

German counter point:

Give me something that is _fun_ and/or _interesting_ and I'm happily spending a big amount of time on it - and in fact, I did that in Germany as well, laws or not.

I'm not sure I'd sign something that says "You're required to put in these hours".

The compensation is completely open - I don't know if these people are payed as junior developers or trainees/interns etc.. - I guess that factors into the equation.

My gripe: I'd expect these 24 people to work on actual products (otherwise I'd question the teaching/mentoring method), so to me it seems the company is getting a temporary team, possibly for cheap.

If I'd be younger, w/o a significant other and - well - applicable (I assume this is for US residents only) I'd apply anyway, though...

sdoering3• 15 years ago

As said in another comment, I understood a little bit more after another explenation.

I did a lot more hours for projects, that were quite fun for me, while doing everything I could, to make sure our "customers" (as it was an paid event, but in a hobby-environment i wrote the "") had an exeptional time.

So yeah, I'm totally OK, with working long hours. But not, if a boss "just" demands it.

ColdAsIce• 15 years ago

To be fair, slave masters where required to feed and put a roof over their slaves. Modern slave masters don't even do that.

barry-cotter• 15 years ago

Is it just me, or is it just the cultural difference (I am from germany, where we - god be blessed - have laws against these kind of hours)

IANAGerman but I lived there for a bit under a year. Don't the Bundeswehr(Army) and some of the big German companies offer a salary during the B.Sc.+M.Sc.in exchange for going to work for them for 10 years? Because this offer seems superior to me.

Actually a better comparision would be an Ausbildung(Apprenticeship). The company would have to really be exploiting them for it not to be better than an Ausbildung.

And by comparision with the apprenticeship system/vocational education system anywhere else, the German system is awesome. I have successfully convinced myself that this is an awesome opportunity and would apply if I was in a situation visa wise to do so.

alexanderberman• 15 years ago

I absolutely love this idea - a very Silicon Valley way to deal with the shortage of quality developers!

enry_straker2• 15 years ago

I used a similar approach when i wanted Windows internals programmers in the early 90's. I just called it a internal training program, though.

Irrespective of the number of hours put up, i still think a person new to rails will get a chance to pick up a lot of knowledge and be mentored in the proces - and is a good deal for collage kids.

j334• 15 years ago

In a week, or so, you'll find out how this is very different from an internal training program. We're going to make this very external, a learning experience for whoever wants to be involved.

watmough• 15 years ago

This sounds really promising. Hopefully, and it would be silly not to, you'll have something in place to detect smart people following along outside.

enry_straker2• 15 years ago

Apologies if this came across negetively.

My goal, at the time i started my company, was to build a really hard-core team. I am sure that is one of your goals too, aside from providing a really intensive training program for your participants.

I would suggest focusing on good habits and good attitude to learning and problem-solving and having fun in the process. Don't allow them to burn out short-term.

twelvedigits• 15 years ago

Very exciting. Are you going to livestream everything?

jeffclark• 15 years ago

Is the job salary negotiated before the program? I feel like it must be hard to accurately judge someone's programming value before they learn how to program.

What happens if, at the end of the 5-month program, they offer you a desperately low-paying salary? Have you wasted 5 months and moved to DC for nothing?

john_p_wood2• 15 years ago

Something tells me that after making it though a program like this, you'll have plenty of job options, with the one from Living Social just being one.

thematt• 15 years ago

Those others don't matter though because by going through the class you've signed on for an 18 month stint with LivingSocial.

smountcastle3• 15 years ago

Yes, though if you make it through the program (and offered a job at LivingSocial), you're committed to 18 months at LivingSocial. They seem like a great company so I don't think this would happen, but it does give them leverage to offer a lower salary, reduced benefits, etc.

j334• 15 years ago

It's not negotiated before the program. In DC alone, we're seeing explosive growth in the Ruby community, so there are opportunities with the government, contractors, startups, you name it.

If you put your heart into the program there will be a job at LivingSocial for you. And the pay is very nice :)

yangtheman2• 15 years ago

What level of pay should accepted applicant expect... Market rate for junior level programmer in DC area? Is there anyway you can provide a ballpark figure (like $80K or something) for those who might think about changing his/her career?

gaustin• 15 years ago

I think it's even harder to manage the expectations of an already experienced developer coming into this program.

I did something similar with another company and ran into the issue that they were expecting to pay significantly less than I was expecting (realistically or not). In hindsight, it is obvious the program was designed for new programmers or recent grads.

It might not have been such an issue if we had talked about potential salary ranges up front. It was a big shock to learn of their expectations when the offer came across the table.

pitdesi• 15 years ago

This is pretty smart recruiting by livingsocial, certainly one way to bridge the talent shortfall, but i wonder what happens if someone wants to leave? Will be interesting to see how it all plays out

Another similar program but without the lock-in is Code Academy (http://codeacademy.org) in Chicago. It is different than hungry academy in that you pay up front ($6k) but my understanding is that most of their students are going to be offered a job with Groupon (where it is hosted) or another LightBank company, but under no obligation to do it. I think some of the current students might be starting their own companies instead.

Feefighters did a guest lecture, and i know theyve had a bunch of other a-list guest speakers, including dhh and harper (cto for obama). I met some of the students at an hn meetup, and they were pretty awesome, motivated and bright.

Pretty cool that both of these exist though, I think they'll continue to grow. There are a lot of people who didnt do comp sci in school and don't want to do it on their own

jvanderwal• 15 years ago

I just interviewed with them and they stressed very heavily that they do not guarantee any sort of job.

j334• 15 years ago

CodeAcademy is totally awesome. I'm the instructor for Hungry Academy and an advisor for Code Academy (http://codeacademy.org/staff).

CA is an awesome program where you can get a great start and be independent. HA is a larger scale (20 weeks), you're paid during the program, then expected to join the engineering team full time. You're not guaranteed a job, but if you aren't ready for the team then I haven't done my job.

I think the programs serve a slightly different audience and the community is better off having BOTH.

scarmig• 15 years ago

Is Hungry Academy effectively an internship program that offers a guarantee of some dedicated training time instead of the intern being thrown to the wolves?

doktrin6• 15 years ago

In addition to Code Academy, there's Dev Bootcamp in SV, whose first session is starting this spring. While it's not directly associated with a particular company, the organizers do promise recruiting opportunities upon completion.

Count me among those who are trying to break into the industry without the proper educational background. It's been a fun, yet often frustrating experience (full time job, lack of time, etc.).

I was actually just speaking to a family member and bemoaning the lack of such programs in the DC area. Very glad to see this opportunity arise, and I certainly have my fingers crossed.

gabaix• 15 years ago

Any link on Dev Bootcamp in SV?

yangtheman2• 15 years ago

I would strongly urge everyone to look at Dev Bootcamp very carefully. Someone from there posted on SF Ruby Meetup mailing list, asking for someone to help out with the training (for free) while the program charges pretty large amount of cash to students. The worse was how the person wrote the message - about how it would be giving back to community, etc. while they themselves would be making handsome money and/or profit.

Just be careful before you sign up.

replicatorblog3• 15 years ago

re: deciding not to stay, I would imagine it would be structured like employer funded MBA programs where you can leave at any time, but then have to pay back a pro-rated portion of your tuition and expenses.

rpwilcox• 15 years ago

Excellent! I'm glad a big presence in the startup community is willing to train people, instead of demanding: "OMG I CAN'T FIND ROCK STARS I R D00MM333ED!!!!!!" like I see so many other companies do :)

sequoia4• 15 years ago

I want to second this. Given the shortage of qualified developers, I actually find it baffling that more companies aren't taking this step. Kudos to Living Social to being proactive rather than whining about lack of talent!

araneae• 15 years ago

Damn, that's really awesome. It seems like a cool way to get into web programming from other fields since they don't require RoR or even a programming background. I might have considered it if my due date wasn't in May...

mattetti• 15 years ago

I'm almost sure we will run more sessions in the future.

maccylo• 15 years ago

:( Darn. Too bad I'm not american. Nevertheless, good effort! Let us know how it works out.

javadi82• 15 years ago

Looks like the applicants can be non-american. http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3377589

nassosdim5• 15 years ago

Unfortunately, they can't http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3378760

richardburton• 15 years ago

Well that is one way to solve the shortage of programmers. Find hungry people and teach them to code in return for food!*

*Obviously I am kidding. This is definitely cool recruiting experiment.

idiot900• 15 years ago

"Not a programmer? Apply."

How do you expect to turn someone into a decent programmer in five months when they are starting from scratch?

agentultra• 15 years ago

I suspect by specializing them in developing with a specific language (Ruby) on a specific framework (Rails).

I doubt candidates will come out knowing how to approach computing models, implement algorithms, explain sequent calculus type systems, and write compilers.

j334• 15 years ago

I've been teaching programming for eight years now, and I'd say "What we do isn't that hard." If we were writing 3D game engines, yes we'd need insane levels of math, theory, etc.

But writing web applications is mostly about following smart patterns, getting something done, done quickly, then improving the hotspots that need it. I can teach you to do that in five months, no problem.

Then it just takes a lifetime of practice to be, truly, good.

pixeloution• 15 years ago

j3 is right -- developing web apps, 95% of the time, is a trade and not something that requires a four year CS degree. I've taken several people from scratch and taught them enough to be useful to me over a 4-5 month period; years later some of them are holding down very highly paid web development jobs.

danberger• 15 years ago

This is the kind of site that people want to share and can go viral quite quickly. You should add the usual suspects of share buttons: Twitter, Fb and LinkedIn.

JonnieCache• 15 years ago

I've always disliked the term "hungry," usually it seems to be meant literally, ie. "we know you currently can't afford to eat, and we're going to exploit your weak position mercilessly."

Not to say this is necessarily what's going to happen here of course, but be careful boys and girls.

j334• 15 years ago

LivingSocial started with the name "HungryMachine" and one of the company's core values is "Live Hungry" -- that's the inspiration.

We don't want to exploit anyone, hah. In fact, it's quite the opposite -- we want to bring more people into this ridiculously bountiful world of software development.

vaksel3• 15 years ago

that application is terrible

I can see it being fine as a step 2...but it's way too big as a first step. And you want someone for a job as a programmer...and yet your "filter" for this is essays and videos?

Anyone who'd bother to waste a day writing all those essays and making the videos, can learn RoR on their own...especially if they are already a programmer since RoR is not that different from the other languages

cjoh• 15 years ago

I don't work for Living Social, but I think it's a huge risk that they're taking. The form is burdensome because it needs to be. The only people that they should get are people that really want to learn and that's exactly what they'll get here. Remember, the entrepreneurish techie on HackerNews is likely not their audience. The 19 year old fixing Mom's computer who just failed organic chemistry and might not want to go through with their Marine Biology degree is.

vaksel3• 15 years ago

the 19 year old wouldn't hear about the opportunity in the first place

safetyscissors• 15 years ago

I'm gonna give this a shot. I've been worried for a while about my skills as a developer and felt that I wasn't up to the same standard as other people (Just like everyone I guess). I think this is a perfect avenue for anyone who wants to get some more experience. Good luck to those entering :)

rookah• 15 years ago

Why not film all the lessons? It would make the perfect X-Factor for nerds!

smountcastle3• 15 years ago

New revenue stream for LivingSocial!

switz• 15 years ago

I'm curious how you are contractually obligated to join the team for 18 months. What about salary, benefits, etc. While this could be a great opportunity, I would feel uncomfortable not knowing what package I would be getting after the 5 months. For all I know, they could pay us 10K for 18 months of work with no benefits.

j334• 15 years ago

I wish I could say more about the salary.

Let's say that I taught middle school and high school for five years, and both the training period and job afterwards pay WAY more than I ever got.

edw5192• 15 years ago

How much do you get paid to fill out the application?

I love the idea that you're "edgy" and thinking outside the box, but honestly, have you really thought your application process through?

As an ugly introverted nerd who still has trouble getting a date, but builds killer software apps and loves doing it, the last thing I ever want to do is spend multiple days in order to enter your beauty contest.

So you'll end up choosing the prettiest people who present the best and write the prettiest code regardless of how important or influential it is.

You'd just be better off bringing everyone in for the first week of the class. By the end of that week, you'd have a much better idea of who would succeed in your program than your seemingly random method of choice.

I've written lots of cool stuff and would love to learn Ruby in what appears to be a great program like yours, but I'm just not hungry enough to subject myself to more superficial rejection. There are already plenty of women around for that.

j334• 15 years ago

We're engineers -- not pretty people. We don't care what your face looks like, but watching you explain who you are and what you're good at can give great insight into your personality.

The application is more about whether you feel like a good fit for the team than it is your programming skills. It doesn't mean "do you look good", it doesn't mean "is your English great," and it doesn't mean "Does this look like I 'expect' a programmer to look?"

We're trying to find out "is this a person I want to spend every day of my career with?"

We'd LOVE to bring everyone out for one of our in-person sessions, but are expecting a thousand applications for our 24 spots. Getting all those people in one place would be a massive undertaking and a huge waste of time for the 976 who aren't selected.

vaksel3• 15 years ago

No it doesn't...you honestly think anyone would record a video off the top of their head?

Those answers will be calculated to sound the way you want to hear. "Of course I enjoy working, if I can't get 90 hours of work in, I feel depressed that I'm not living up to my potential...taking days off is also completely unacceptable, since I don't want to let my coworkers down."

And getting a feel for a person from a video is not too smart either. In one case, you are friends with the person just talking. In another they are trying to essentially beg for a job talking into a camera, alone in a room.

And if you are getting 1000 applications, it's completely dishonest to require all those people to spend days creating their applications. You are not going to watch 8000 hours worth of video and read all those essays...so why do you require people to do busy work?

And if you are going get 1000 applications, you won't be picking non-programmers either(well maybe one). So why get all those people's hopes up and waste their time? There is no way I'd believe you'd pick someone with a biology degree over someone who already has the basic programming knowledge, where you don't have to explain what an IF statement is or how to create a variable.

edw5192• 15 years ago

Thanks for the quick response, j3. I sure didn't mean to be snarky and it looks like you didn't take it that way. I believe you just added more data to my argument. Let me explain...

If there's only a 3% chance of getting accepted into something so important and life-changing (for both of us), then as an applicant, I want to make damn sure I put my best foot forward into a process that gives me the best possible chance. This just isn't it...

I already know that there's no way anything I put onto video or any underwear (my term for source code) can put me in as favorable competitive light than what I can do for you. I'd just lose out to those who can present better than me.

Compare your application to those of the many incubators and accelerators like yc or techstars. For overachieving builders (the exact people you want to attract), it's the exact opposite experience. Filling out those applications is an enriching experience that gets the juices flowing and generates the excitement that you can compete.

Making videos to be judged by strangers on your "team worthiness", on the other hand, is very hand wavy and a total turn off to precisely the people you're trying to attract.

I believe that "fitting in" is overrated and "being excellent" is underrated and that your process is optimized for the wrong metric.

But then again, what do I know? I'm sure you'll try to prove me wrong (and probably will).

rauljara• 15 years ago

I think you are making a lot of assumptions about what they are going to be using the info for, particularly the video section. They pretty explicitly state they want to hear your communication skills (those matter) / passion (most people would argue that matters too). You go from them telling you that to "So you'll end up choosing the prettiest people..."

You also have the "... who present the best and write the prettiest code regardless of how important or influential it is." Which is less crazy, because they do say that they want people who write clean code (who doesn't?). But they are also asking for your resume, so I don't think that saying "regardless of how important or influential it is" is fair, either.

It sounds like you've been through a lot of rejection in your life, and I really do sympathize, and understand what that can do to you. But you've gotten to the point where you're lashing out at these guys as though they've already rejected you, way before it's gotten to the stage where they could have even thought about rejecting you. It's not fair to them, and it's not fair to yourself. It comes off as incredibly aggressive, and it creates a really huge barrier before the conversation has even started.

drunkenmasta• 15 years ago

I would argue that the brain processes verbal communication skills and written communication skills in different locations and so, while I may be able to write well, I may come across as Timmy from South Park in front of a camera. In addition, while they are thinking outside the box, maybe they should consider other ways of selection other than the same old stuff like resume. My first impression when looking at the site was that they were more interested in my email account so they could email me for years to come, just like when I entered in a contest to take care of an Island in Australia. Emails still come in even though I block the darn thing. But I also agree that it is not fair to assume that the future will be like the past. That would stop me from even trying.

wallawe• 15 years ago

Did you watch the video? I highly doubt this is a "superficial beauty contest."

sequoia4• 15 years ago

For a job application I can see how the essays, videos, etc. could be considered onerous, but from the looks of it this is more like a _scholarship_ application than a job application, and five months of paid training in a work environment is a pretty significant scholarship. In that light, it doesn't seem excessive at all: of course you have to write essays, of course you have to make a short presentation; these are run-of-the-mill requirements for many (not to mention much smaller) scholarship grants.

sequoia4• 15 years ago

Maybe you should start a competing venture called "Ugly Academy." JUST KIDDING!! :)

yayadarsh• 15 years ago

Ah, if only this was more realistic to us full-time students out there.

Nonetheless, the concept sounds very fresh and exciting, and I hope this spawns a Summer variant for people my age!

SilasX2• 15 years ago

This is similar to another Ruby development training opportunity posted last month, Dev Bootcamp

http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3267133 http://devbootcamp.com

Summary of differences I see so far are that Hungry Academy:

- has a different tuition sign (they pay you rather than you pay them).

- is for one employer rather than whoever they can connect you with.

- is in DC rather than the Bay Area.

- is 5 months rather than 2.

Both promote themselves as being compatible with those who have no programming experience, and have an ambitious learning schedule.

(Sidenote: I was accepted for the Feb-March cohort to devbootcamp.)

otrofimo• 15 years ago

SilasX, it would be great to hear your comments of this bootcamp.

These programs are awesome. I got accepted to devbootcamp but because I just moved out to SF(OCT) I don't have enough funds to do it in Feb-Mar(hopefully this summer). The Hungry Academy is an awesome idea which I would totally do if it wasn't in DC. Why are more companies not doing something similar?

SilasX2• 15 years ago

Sad to hear it was money that kept you out. You couldn't even have paid on the 5-year schedule? I would have lent you the money to cover the first few months (albeit at interest) once I confirmed you were accepted.

I think we'll see more of this general kind of thing in the future, where organizations "cut the fat" out of getting people into software development.

cvander• 15 years ago

I loved the program and the proposal.

As for the form, how about asking for HN users or githut accounts. They say more than a cover letter.

And was I the only one that didn't really got excited with the video? I rather get more leadership from the mentors when selling the idea.

j334• 15 years ago

Check out the instructions for the application and you'll see that, if you're a developer, we specifically ask for a project posted on Github.

Sorry you didn't dig the video. I'm happy to have one where I don't say "Damn, I look stupid/fat/messy/blah" :)

yawn• 15 years ago

This sounds like a great opportunity--for those of us without mortgages, families and golden handcuff salaries. If I were younger or debt-free, you could see what someone who's hungry can accomplish.

j334• 15 years ago

As a mortgage man and father of two, I totally agree. If you have ideas on how we can make this work for people in your position, please let me know.

I thought about it being similar to one spouse working crazy hard while the second goes to law school for the eventual payoff future. Five months is a lot easier than three years, especially thinking about the $150K you'd owe.

So it's not easy, but I think it will be possible. I really hope that some join us, because there's no one hungrier than a person working to provide for the ones they love. Families teach you so much about work/life balance, how to do things efficiently, and how to smile -- things I'm looking for in our applicants.

phaus• 15 years ago

I'm in a similar situation, but I live in the D.C. area. Even though things would probably be tough, I plan to apply as soon as I get back home to my computer.

hexis• 15 years ago

Assuming one made it through the 5 month training in DC and was offered a job, would that job be based in DC or would it be remote-compatible?

j334• 15 years ago

This detail is still under discussion, but I anticipate people will fan out to some of the other LivingSocial offices like Seattle, Boulder, or other up-and-coming spots.

It's unlikely that you could remote from home / some other place because we want to keep the in-person mentorships alive.

replicatorblog3• 15 years ago

j3, This is a bit of an aside, but who produced your video? It is very well shot, In-house or a production agency?

j334• 15 years ago

The LivingSocial in house team knocked it out in a couple hours -- they're crazy good. I couldn't believe we used "found light" in a hallway and had respectable results.

replicatorblog3• 15 years ago

Yeah, the lighting was what struck me. My kudos to your video team!

dragthor• 15 years ago

Who do these people think they are?!?!

hkarthik• 15 years ago

Ask around your work place and find some of the grey beards that got their start as programmers in the early 90s.

You'll find quite a few that didn't study programming or CS in school, but got their start via company training programs in COBOL, RPG, or Visual Basic in the late 80s and early 90s. This was back when most universities didn't have a CS Program and programming was just a skill in high demand (much like today).

Some of these folks went on to management, system admin work, or kept pursuing the craft and still work side by side with us today.

So what Hungry Academy is doing isn't completely new, but it's a new idea with a fresh face.

C_• 15 years ago

Just wondering, are opportunities like this for college grads fairly common? Either way, I love the idea.

j334• 15 years ago

I don't think they're common, at least not in the dev world. One of my training clients runs a six month "get familiar with the company" program where new hires do different jobs -- it's the same spirit but totally different intensity. Theirs is like "hey, it's better than an intership" and ours is like "this is more valuable than college. Work hard, learn hard."

idleworx• 15 years ago

Great idea. It seems that the program is more targeted to people with little programming experience/fresh grads/etc? (but I may be wrong since I skimmed through the initial post).

I was wondering if you have or are planning similar programs/incentives for developers with significant prior experience (eg 5+ years of development) but not in the ruby/rails world who are interested in moving towards ruby/rails development?

j334• 15 years ago

I expect there will be many "technology switcher" applicants and am working to have diverse skill sets represented -- including those of us who've been developing for awhile.

doktrin6• 15 years ago

Do developers with 5+ years of professional experience really need a program like this to become proficient with RoR?

This is a genuine question and not a snide remark.

rdouble• 15 years ago

When I worked at ArsDigita in 1999 we did something like this but it was only 3 weeks.

NHQ• 15 years ago

I already got companies trying to pay me to learn Ruby. I say no thanks!

venturebros2• 15 years ago

Hmm I have just started working with RoR. Would jump at this but the DC part is turning me away.

I know you guys said you had an office in Seattle any chance of a similar program there?

Edit: And I also would like to add that I wish there were more programs like this. So many companies want to hire elite,rockstar,jedi,ninja,etc programmers and not willing to give people like me with no CS background a chance. I can't even get an entry-level/junior position since they all require a strong skills these days.

overgryphon• 15 years ago

No offense intended, but why should entry level software development jobs be available to people without a CS skill set? Many people spend four years studying CS specifically to earn an entry level job in software development. Shouldn't those without a CS background spend time developing a comparable amount of skills before expecting a software development job? Why should candidates without a CS degree be held to a lower standard? Why would such a candidate deserve the same opportunities as someone who did devote a significant time to learning CS?

venturebros2• 15 years ago

Never said I was looking to be a software developer. I'm a Front-end web developer. It's tough to get my foot into the door outside of the interactive agency realm because most companies require 2+ years experience and some form of testing just for a junior position.

mkramlich• 15 years ago

anytime you make it easier to do a thing, or lower the bar a person must meet, there are consequences, not all of them good.

doktrin6• 15 years ago

On a purely humorous note, did anyone else watching the video hear Chad say that LS scales to "bazillions" or "zillions" of transactions?

edit : downvoted, really? I thought it was a funny slip

omouse• 15 years ago

You have to go "onsite"? Which century are we living in? -_-'

sabj• 15 years ago

Certainly a very interesting program - many props to the Living Social team for setting this up. I'm curious about the logistics involved - both the questions about the commitment / expectation piece, and the actual program itself. Would be good to have some contact information on the page, or some FAQs. But, great idea, hope it works out well and others follow!

j334• 15 years ago

Send more details questions to hungryacademy at livingsocial dot com.

trifu• 15 years ago

I know someone earlier said this program isn't available to non americans, but is there some special policy set up for Canadians (since we're so close....and have been bffs for so long! :D) Myself (web applications developer) and my gf (band teacher) were thinking of throwing in an application, but if Canadians also don't qualify then there's really no point?

FlyingTryangle• 15 years ago

This is my fucking dream. I don't mean to sound unprofessional since I will apply for this but in this case it is necessary to use the strongest word available. This is what I want so badly it almost brings tears to my eye.

j334• 15 years ago

Awesome!

ratzzak• 15 years ago

Is there any such programs available online instead of attending inplace?

daimyoyo• 15 years ago

There's a problem in the application process that I am not sure I can overcome. I can upload a youtube video fine, but the only camera I own takes 240p. Which I really doubt will do anything besides convince the people running this program I'm not a good candidate. I might as well snail mail a VHS. So, if I can get around this step, I'd love to apply(and if I'm accepted I'd move heaven and Earth to make sure I completed the course) but the fact is it doesn't matter how "hungry" you are if the first impression you make tells people you don't have two nickels to rub together.

j334• 15 years ago

Maybe a library with a webcam-equipped computer? Friend with a camera phone? Volunteer somewhere for a few hours in exchange for using their equipment?

will_lam• 15 years ago

From a high level view, I'm totally for this idea. However, I'm skeptical of the viability of this sort of pilot program. Having more info about the "fine print" would be a good start.

It would be interesting to see if other companies start similar programs to meet the short-fall of engineering talent as well.

somecallmediego• 15 years ago

I'm more of a fiddler than a developer. Should I submit some basic code sample, or would I be better off applying as a non-developer ?

j334• 15 years ago

Go the non-developer route.

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