NYC Man Earns $55,000 A Year Peddling Candy On Subway

http://jobs.aol.com/articles/2011/12/02/nyc-man-earns-55-000-a-year-peddling-candy-on-the-subway/

by lchengify • 15 years ago

140 181 15 years ago

jobs.aol.com

arkitaip• 15 years ago

"While it might frustrate some to learn that the man who hectors subway riders to buy a granola bar is making more money than many of those commuters, there is something impressive about Tracks' entrepreneurship."

Haters gonna hate. Love this guy and his positive attitude.

Retric• 15 years ago

The annoying thing is not how much money he makes but how much he annoys people. IMO, it's basically the same thing as short changing people and pocketing that money. A few cents or a few seconds of time is not going to make or break someone but it's still a net drain. Just because your not robbing houses or kidnapping people does not mean it's ok.

sofuture2• 15 years ago

I'm sorry, but what the everloving fuck?

I see these guys every day on the subway. They have absolutely no impact on my life whatsoever, except the one time I chose to buy a bag of M+M's. I'm not sure how you ended up talking about robbing houses and kidnapping people.

joelrunyon8• 15 years ago

"Just because your not robbing houses or kidnapping people does not mean it's ok."

Because selling M&Ms on the subway is akin to robbing houses.

burgerbrain7• 15 years ago

Why is it when the discussion is about somebody selling candy on the subway certain peoples minds seem to be turning to violent crime, but when you hear about people with unlicensed lemon-aid stands we don't seem to see this?

To put it bluntly, I suspect it has something to do with the demographic people associate both of these (rather identical) businesses.

sliverstorm4• 15 years ago

Annoying other people is not illegal. Reference the telemarketer I spoke with yesterday.

lusr2• 15 years ago

55K revenue? What were his actual profits? Does he pay taxes? Respect to the guy for making a living and taking care of his family, but the piece makes him out to be making a killing when I suspect the reality isn't that inspiring.

swalkergibson• 15 years ago

Pretty high. Just a quick back of the envelope reveals the following.

http://www.metrocandy.com/MM-PEANUT-FUN-SIZE-BAGS

23.6 pieces/pound * 6.3 pounds = 144.9 individual bags

55000/144.9 = 380 re-orders

380*25 = $9500 (cost of year supply of M&M's)

55000 - 9500 = $45,500 (total profit)

This obviously assumes 100% sell through and that he just stocks those lower margin items for people that will not buy the M&M's. You could probably knock a few grand off the 45K number and get pretty close. The trouble is, that is not that much money in NYC. Thus, he may still be living in the hood, but at least he is controlling his own destiny :)

dhbanes• 15 years ago

Tracks walks the D train in $300 kicks, and takes home around $55,000 a year, in cash.

Usually "takes home" indicates net income.

delwin2• 15 years ago

Reality isn't inspiring, stories are.

joelrunyon8• 15 years ago

55k is a lot better than nothing.

I don't think it makes any indication of whether he's making a "killing" or not. The only thing that can indicate that is the $300 kicks, which are more likely to be his personal indulgence than reflective of everything.

The amount of money he makes isn't what's inspiring. What's inspiring is the fact that he had two choices - wait for something good to happen to him and blame others or take responsibility for things and make them happen by himself. Thats what's inspiring.

miahi• 15 years ago

If you spend every day walking around, you want the most comfortable shoes your money can buy.

lusr2• 15 years ago

"While it might frustrate some to learn that the man who hectors subway riders to buy a granola bar is making more money than many of those commuters"

In my opinion, the article is implying this guy is making pretty good money but they've left out all the important details. As I said, I respect the guy for making a living and it's nice to put some numbers to what these guys earn (I've always wondered), I just take issue with what I see as a bit of embellishment and misrepresentation on this particular success story.

sjs• 15 years ago

He's doing better than your bank teller. Lots of jobs pay less than 55k, even in New York.

jrockway5• 15 years ago

Presumably the bank tellers are W-2 and their employer pays payroll taxes, while this guy is paying his own payroll taxes. If you've ever done 1099 work, you'll know that the government takes pretty much all of your 1099 money.

klbarry2• 15 years ago

I used to sing on the subway with a friend - we made about $200 between us for singing until our voices started to fail (6 hours). This lasted the summer between high school and college. We could have made 36,000 yearly without tax each if we were desperate.

jessedhillon2• 15 years ago

Watch out. Some HNer is right now investigating whether or not you're allowed to sing on the subway.

forensic2• 15 years ago

Anyone who rides the subway likely knows that it's against transit rules to make loud noise. You don't need to look it up. These rules are there for good reasons. Bold people can sometimes get away with making money by breaking law but we don't hav to support them just because they a successful.

thejteam• 15 years ago

Is this legal on the NYC subway? On the DC metro, eating is forbidden and enforced. I remember a story from years back about a little girl being led away in handcuffs for eating a few french fries. Hopefully this story won't get him into too much trouble.

And hopefully it won't spawn too many copycats either. The last thing this guy (not too mention the other riders) need is for the number of people peddling sugar to multiply.

dextorious• 15 years ago

""" On the DC metro, eating is forbidden and enforced. """

It cannot be both forbidden and enforced, can it?

OK, I'm being pedantic.

_delirium• 15 years ago

Eating isn't illegal on the NY subway, though unlicensed selling is (but that's enforced sporadically).

sofuture2• 15 years ago

Chances are that on any rush hour train there are at least one or two people busking, selling candy or begging. It's a near daily sight for me.

DanBC2• 15 years ago

Wow.

(http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=94999&page=1)

> *Seventh-grader Ansche Hedgepeth was handcuffed, booked and fingerprinted for eating French fries in a northwest Washington subway station.

12 years old?

Cushman• 15 years ago

They take it seriously. In fairness, it works-- the DC subway system is way cleaner than NYC. The good side of fascism, I guess.

delwin2• 15 years ago

I wonder if he A/B tests with pretzels on the weekends.

klbarry2• 15 years ago

No, but I am 100% sure he a/b tests trains, times, and pitches constantly.

angstrom2• 15 years ago

Funny, I know what A/B testing is, but I had to read this twice. I thought you were referring to the A & B trains which converge with the D train track between 59th and 145th.

jccodez• 15 years ago

I hope he is paying taxes on that money. He just made a public statement of earned income.

MengYuanLong• 15 years ago

Ooh, very true. Plus, this entire thread seems rather emotionally split between support and derision. I wonder if he claims benefits of low income while pocketing his earnings from the sales.

While this story could serve as advertising and up his revenue, it might also be a bit of a curse for him if the IRS wants to cause some extra hassle.

kingkawn6• 15 years ago

a family member of mine supports himself playing cello in the subway about 3 hours a day five days a week.

barredo• 15 years ago

For curiosity: Which city?

kingkawn6• 15 years ago

nyc, where you can play legally without a permit on the platform for money as long as you do not amplify your sound.

keithpeter2• 15 years ago

What does he play? If he supports himself playing classical repertoire then I am extremely impressed.

kingkawn6• 15 years ago

he plays in NYC, mostly improv, often incorporating Bach and other classical works, but always without sheet music. Lately his focus has shifted to more atonal music, which contrary to what I would've thought has dramatically increased the rate at which people give him money.

With the rest of his free time he plays in a million different bands (most of whom who he met when they approached him on the subway platform) and smokes himself into a happy stupor.

libria• 15 years ago

That's impressive. Violinist Joshua Bell could only garner up $32 during DC's rush hour: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=myq8upzJDJc&t=18s

kingkawn6• 15 years ago

My brother says that playing in a high traffic place like that is usually less successful than on the platforms, because nobody has to stop. He often plays on the platforms that have trains coming opposite directions on either side, giving him a captive audience for a few minutes at a time.

bcl• 15 years ago

Is $55k enough to actually live in NYC?

patio11• 15 years ago

Half of NYC housesholds have incomes below ~$38k per year.

angstrom2• 15 years ago

Yes, it all depends what part of the city you want to live in. There are many good areas in all the boroughs outside Manhattan. In Manhattan he could split a two bedroom for about $1500/mo each, though I doubt he would want to considering how much he could save by living further away from the yuppies.

In the end he hustles, probably pays no taxes and is earning the equivalent of a single person making $85K/yr.

ImprovedSilence3• 15 years ago

When you think about it, $55k in cash is comparable to a $70k taxable income.

cdh• 15 years ago

Except that the $55k in cash is also taxable income, especially now that he's told the entire world about it.

alapshah• 15 years ago

Hate to say it but it sort of aggravated me that at the end of the video he says "This what y'all buyin me, $300 sneakers. I stay fly from head to toe."

When I think about it, it shouldn't, he's just a businessman making money and spending it as he wants, but for some reason it was irksome... maybe because some people buy over pity and it isn't quite legal what he's doing

jcc806• 15 years ago

Maybe you don't value $300 sneakers and see it as wasteful? I do. But, I'm sure this guy would shake his head at someone buying a $2,000 laptop (or something like that) when there is one for $1,000 that is "just as good."

clarkevans• 15 years ago

I don't know. Those shoes look awfully comfortable and make him look clean. Perhaps they are a very valid business expense and well worth the money: Perhaps he did A/B tests with different shoe styles and manufactures? Perhaps the shoes are a topic of conversation during the sale that he can switch to and then back to close a deal? Perhaps if his feet don't hurt after 11h and he's able to hustle that one more hour, the shoes pay for themselves.

gerggerg15• 15 years ago

Selling shit on the subway is illegal. The reason this man is capable of making a profit is because he has almost no competition. It has nothing to do with entrepreneurship, being a good salesman, having a good idea, or really anything positive other than the giving spirit of some New Yorkers. He's milking a system in which he exists illegally and if it were actually legal to sell shit on the subway, the subway would be significantly less tolerable and he wouldn't be able to come close to making a good living.

darien• 15 years ago

On the contrary, the nyc subways are filled with these dudes "Selling candy for a basketball team" or "Trying to make some money to stay out of trouble." (Actual quotes) The competition may be slim, but there are at least a hundred people selling candy on the subway everyday.

gerggerg15• 15 years ago

And if it were actually legal, there would be more; many more. If it gets past a certain tolerance you can bet Bloomberg will fire up the ticket machine.

joelrunyon8• 15 years ago

Why is it okay to break the rules in the tech world but if you do it in the NYC subway, it's cheating.

Entrepreneurship is all about breaking the rules, making your own way and making things happen.

The guy probably didn't have a lot set up for him in life, so instead of feeling sorry for himself, he put on his shoes, grabbed his box of candy and made it happen.

Just because he's exercising his entrepreneurial spirit by doing something that's not as sexy as programming the next facebook/twitter/social "disruption" doesn't mean his attitude shouldn't be applauded.

Give the guy some credit.

ImprovedSilence3• 15 years ago

Agreed, it's better than pushin crack.

comicjk• 15 years ago

He isn't breaking convention, he's just breaking the law. That law exists for a good reason - because being stuck in a confined space with a bunch of salesmen is intolerable.

Does your tech startup break the law? If so, please call your local precinct and wait for the police to arrive.

jorgecastillo• 15 years ago

>Entrepreneurship is all about breaking the rules, making your own way and making things happen.

Braking the rules is ok, braking the laws is not. So if I understand, you would consider the people, that are in the drug business, as entrepreneurs? Illegal activities are highly profitable, precisely because most people, will not participate in them, and this distorts the market.

gerggerg15• 15 years ago

I don't think it's bad to break the rules in either case. He's just not an entrepreneur, and this article proposes nothing truly interesting. He's selling shit on the subway. He didn't come up with a new and interesting way to sell shit. He's just selling shit. Panhandling. The only reason he can make a profit is because it's illegal and people are nice. He's taking advantage of both. Is it better than selling crack? Without the slightest doubt. But thats a terrible metric with which to judge your surroundings.

arnoldwh4• 15 years ago

Don't knock the hustle. I remember hearing about how GrubWithUs started by inserting flyers inside the free morning daily newsletters in subways (illegally) - people applauded at how "scrappy" this great startup was. Setting up lemonade stands is also illegal unless you have a permit, but nobody complains. I guess sometimes the law just isn't in your favor, and you have to actually think for yourself whether something is right or wrong.

gerggerg15• 15 years ago

I can't seem to find any information on the GrubWithUs flyers. Could you post a link? Lemonade stands don't stand to gain immense competition because of relaxing regulation.

DanBC2• 15 years ago

people do complain about lemonade stands, and they get shut down (by police) regularly.

(http://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2011/08/03/the-inexplic...)

(http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3171665)

Deepta• 15 years ago

I'm agree with you 100% but I would like him to sell candy rather than selling drug on the street.

jeffem• 15 years ago

You're scratching the surface of a much deeper issue. Yes, a lot of people would be annoyed if they were bombarded with train salesmen. On the other hand, the fact that this man and others like him are able to bring in this kind of money shows that there's demand for their products. So if the laws were actually being effectively enforced, the market would go underserved.

It seems that we're only having this discussion becuase the transit system is government-owned. Private trains, airlines, etc. have all tried to serve this market in an unobtrusive way.

Dylan16807• 15 years ago

People buying from an insistent salesmen they can't walk away from is not necessarily a sign of demand. I'm sure there is some demand, but I strongly doubt it accounts for 100% of his business.

jaydz• 15 years ago

Also, he's not paying any taxes and is likely stealing revenue from the legal tax paying subway newsstands. The MTA needs to step up and end this.

jcc806• 15 years ago

"The reason this man is capable of making a profit is because he has almost no competition. It has nothing to do with entrepreneurship, being a good salesman, having a good idea, or really anything positive other than the giving spirit of some New Yorkers."

So he's found a niche market and exploiting it. Good for him. And it's not a good idea because it was just so obvious right? Or, because some guy in a suit says it's wrong? If someone cracks down on him fine. Till then he isn't hurting anyone. You should be rooting for this guy instead of against him. That even if he gets shut down at least he had the guts to put himself out there like that and hope he finds something else if this drys up.

igravious• 15 years ago

Napster

wyclif• 15 years ago

I don't eat candy, because I plan on keeping my teeth as long as possible. I admire this guy's entrepreneurship and hustle, though.

10dpd• 15 years ago

I really hope this article doesn't create a gold rush where the subway will become inundated with people trying to make a quick buck...almost like Silicon Valley :)

lclaude01• 15 years ago

A business is a business ...a product or a service(candy), a distribution channel (subway), customers (subway riders) and profit margin... that is it!

How many of you (on HN) have done that? the answer can be surprising.

Before thinking about making millions $$$ on a startup maybe try to run a lemonade stand this weekend.

Non-Technical co-founder is a big +

rokhayakebe3• 15 years ago

Thank you. I can guarantee you that most people's startup do not make $55k/year.

joelrunyon8• 15 years ago

I think this is the epitome of entrepreneurship --> "I've been doing this since I was 11. Not because I had to do it, but because I chose to do it...because there's nothing better than your own money."

Well said.

mapster2• 15 years ago

In any major city, one is bombarded with intrusive marketing (commercials, neon signs, think of Times Square). On the NYC subways there are plenty of obnoxious people, many asking for outright handouts. Tracks is a small time entrepreneur - he embodies the successful aspects of a start-up: great elevator pitch, asks for your money, and shows up to do it again the next day. I wish him much success.

AJ007• 15 years ago

Is it just me or does it seem a little strange that this story is on the top of hacker news?

erhanerdogan• 15 years ago

He needs to be Square'd!

keiferski2• 15 years ago

Somehow, I feel like those being critical are posting from a SF coffeeshop, sipping a $5 latte, planning the next social-deals-crowd-sourced "startup".

The man is more of an entrepreneur than most of the people on this site, myself included. What makes it even more inspiring is that he didn't have a 150k offer from Google to fall back on.

gerggerg15• 15 years ago

Ironically, if google rescinds that offer, you'll always have selling candy in the subway to fall back on.

keiferski2• 15 years ago

Well, no. If you can get hired by Google, you get get hired by any other company in the valley.

A person from the hood# who sells candy bars to survive is not in that category.

#mentioned in the article.

jcc806• 15 years ago

Some of the comments here are really disappointing. Can't believe some people here are focusing on the fact that it's illegal to sell candy on the subway instead of this guys' hustle and trying to drag him down. Good to see the worlds current/future patent trolls and paper pushers have found HN in time to rip on someone making his own way.

JMStewy• 15 years ago

That last line seems a bit uncalled for.

I commend the entrepreneurial traits this man showed, but I don't see how you can simply dismiss the fact that he's profiting from a tragedy-of-the-commons situation. Just because there are some good things about his attitude doesn't mean he can't be criticized.

This story isn't really about the wealth-producing sort of entrepreneurialism that I come to HN for, so I'm not surprised there are negative comments on this post.

PissedOffHNer2• 15 years ago

You'd think hacker news members, wantreprenuers from all over the world, would applaud his effort... I was so upset over the many comments below. I typed up a rant. But went back and re-read everything just to try to see it from everyone's point of view.

I have some questions for you guys:

- If it were 2 little white girls selling cookies to save up to go to college I personally believe the comments below would have a completely different tone. But because it's a black guy named "Tracks" wearing $300 shoes selling candy the community looks down on it... Yes, I pulled the race card, it's the perfect time for it, and I'm a pasty ass white kid. I laugh at "nigga" jokes like everyone else but this is just the perfect example of subtle racism, something it took my black friends a long time to explain to me.

Just a few weeks ago, didn't hacker news have a link on the front page about how kids (white county kids) across the US are being handed hundred dollar fines for operating Lemonade stands without $400 food permits. Lemonade stands are also "illegal".

THIS is the problem with America, it's turning into Anti-Business Europe. Selling anything requires 12 pounds of permits and licenses. THIS is what is slowly killing the US, THIS is what Steve Jobs was talking about when he complained to the President that building factories in the USA is so much harder than in China.

"Selling on the subway is annoying."

- Excuse me but, what the fuck are you doing on the subway that is so god damn important that you can't be snapped out of your "state of zen" and hear someone ask "anyone want candy, candy for $2" for 5-10 seconds max. The loud ass subway, underground, with no view, screeching and bumping and vibrating along. And the black guy selling candy is what's bothering you?! Again... If it were 2 little white girls selling cookies you'd smile and wish there were more little entrepreneurs like them in the world.

If it were "annoying" people wouldn't be giving him 50 thousand dollars a year. They wouldn't be buying his candy.

"It's illegal:"

- Says who? Law and ethics are 2 different things. In the US it's illegal to download media for personal use, in Switzerland it's not. In the US the drinking age is 21, in other countries it's 16. Who is "right"? Who is "correct"? So many laws are made by rich men to benefit rich men that over the decades our middle class has shrunki, the richest country in the world is in debt, and our jobs are being lost overseas. The Rich are getting richer, the poor getting poorer. This is what happens when well established rich men use the "Law" to keep everyone else down while making themselves untouchable. Making everything "illegal". Selling candy on the subway is not allowed, selling lemonade in front of your house is not allowed. Where the fuck can I go to make a living? The jobs are all gone too.

HOLD ON, is the Subway not public grounds? Do we not pay taxes for public transportation, pay again to use it, and we still can't sell shit there?! So I can't sell lemonade in my own fucking front yard, I can't sell candy on my own fucking public land. Do you see where I'm going with this...

Not only that but city planning, government policies, and the fact that only 50 years ago blacks weren't allows to shit and piss in the same bathrooms as whites. All these policies together have created unequal societies, segregated cities, ghettos, and deprived groups of people of all color from a future. This is the equivalent of complaining about Native Americans setting up TeePees in Public Parks because it's illegal. There's a time to fuck the law and a time to follow it.

Time after time I see posts on hacker news about white men doing semi-illegal things and making big bucks out of it. This time a black dude did it and we all piss on him. Glad to see racism is alive and well, even in entrepreneurs. I hope you all come back in your next lives as Gay Black Jews living in a parallel universe where it's the 1800s.

pavel_lishin• 15 years ago

> Can't believe some people here are focusing on the fact that it's illegal to sell candy on the subway

It matters. Like someone else pointed out, the fact that it's illegal minimizes his competition.

You could make a business making and selling child pornography, and for awhile, you'd be making a lot of money, too. ("But child pornography actually hurts people," you cry, "so it's a terrible analogy!" Shut up. The analogy isn't about the crime, it's about the lack of competition.)

joe_the_user2• 15 years ago

I suggest that you consider how you'd feel if you were sitting in an SF coffee shop and this guy walked up and tried to sell candies to each customer there-in including you...

Sure, that's just "entrepreneurial spirit" - violating public or private space laws shouldn't matter at all...

oblique63• 15 years ago

I personally do encounter a lot of this kind of thing in SF, except usually just in latin shops/restaurants. And instead of candy, it's some nick-nacks (usually along the lines of childrens clothing, rosary beads, virgin mary pendants, etc), being sold by an elderly person.

I never really buy anything from them (though my mom sometimes does), and even though I do prefer my meals to be uninterrupted, I would never say they annoy me, or that they shouldn't be doing it. Life can be hard, and you can tell these people are genuinely trying to make the best of it, so I truly respect them for it. If anything, accusing them of 'violating' anything when they're working so hard, doing something so simple and innocent, would just make me feel like less of a human being.

rorrr• 15 years ago

He is engaged in an illegal activity. By your "logic", selling cocaine is a brilliant startup.

zecho• 15 years ago

Why sell candy on the subway, when you can literally pan for gold in NYC? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hxG8HBy3hpk

dhyasama• 15 years ago

This guy is a jerk. Last week he called my wife a white bitch because she didn't buy any candy. I respect the hustle but not the man.

marquis• 15 years ago

This may be the most relevant post in this entire thread.

mattblalock• 15 years ago

The comments on this thread make me want to never come here again...

BrandonM• 15 years ago

To be fair, it's only 3 or 4 people in the thread who appear to be of the authoritarian "do what the government says and get off my lawn" mindset. It just shows how easy it is for a vocal minority to dominate a discussion.

gerggerg15• 15 years ago

I can probably be considered part of that vocal minority. Could you comment on what about this thread is so depressing to you?

peterhajas• 15 years ago

I'll join a new Hacker News with less SF startup coffee "10 things VCs say that you HAVE to listen to" articles if someone starts it.

pud• 15 years ago

I think the writer heard the subject's rap lyrics wrong. I believe he's saying:

"I do what I gotta do, just to stay on my feet. I'm flipping them sweets, I sell cavities, the s* will leave a hole in your teeth."

That makes more sense than the article's last line, "and s* believer, hole in your teeth."

13rules• 15 years ago

Came here to post the same thing ... he definitely said "this st will leave a hole in your teeth"

portentint• 15 years ago

This guy is selling through pure hustle. I find it hard to criticize him when he's working his ass off, every day, to earn a buck for his family. He's not mugging anyone. He's not stealing. He's not, in fact, doing any harm at all.

I bet most of the people bitching on here would complain even more if this were a story about how he's collecting welfare.

gerggerg15• 15 years ago

Why is it considered a thoughtful argument that he is at least not committing worse criminal acts?

nandemo2• 15 years ago

I suppose it's because the guy is black.

inspiredworlds• 15 years ago

I love this guy's hustle. He knows his products inside out, his margins and his markets.

NYC Man Earns $55,000 A Year Peddling Candy On Subway

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