Ask HN: What was life like before and after a baby

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32602181

by xupybd • 4 years ago

75 136 4 years ago

news.ycombinator.com

My first is due 3 days ago. I'm told that I'm going to have no time any more and good sleep is a thing of the past.

I'm worried, I don't work well when tired. I'm just starting to get in the habit of investing in myself as a developer and am reading a lot, practicing a lot. This has made me, in my estimation, a much better programmer. Does this end when you have kids?

What was it like for you out there that have gone through this change in life?

thematrixturtle4• 4 years ago

Yeah, sorry, free time is going to be a thing of the past for a while. On the upside, you'll eventually get used to being woken up multiple times per night, and you'll be so perma-tired that you'll fall asleep easily afterwards.

Pro-tip: co-sleeping. I know this is considered heretical in the US, but the rest of the world does it because it's so much easier, and unless you're morbidly obese/drunk/on drugs it's fine.

wjamesg2• 4 years ago

I do not recommend co-sleeping. But if it works for you, great

jgwil22• 4 years ago

Seconded. You need to set boundaries in order to keep a private, adult life for yourself and your partner, if you have one.

t0bia_s2• 4 years ago

It is not possible if you, well your wife, breastfeeding at night. Small babies usually don't sleep whole night without eating. I know a lot mothers that said they will never keep baby in their bed. Week after born, most of them find out, that it is much more comfortable to keep baby at bed and stay there for whole night.

A lot of people there say that sleeping is ruined. Maybe just a small change in habits helps.

xyzzy_plugh3• 4 years ago

it's fine.

It's not, children under 2 are not fully equipped to free themselves if they get stuck or covered by something or someone. I'm not here to give parenting advice so, you do you, but it's irresponsible to suggest there is no risk when there very much is increased risk of death. The risk goes down as the child matures of course, but some parents sleep lighter than others, some move in their sleep, some sleep in soft beds with lots of bedding or pillows, or high up.

thematrixturtle4• 4 years ago

Everything has risks, including stumbling around in the dark trying to put a baby back in its crib. My wife and I used separate blankets, firm latex pillows, and one of those co-sleeping mats with hard raised edges, positioned so that the baby's head was flush with the top end of the bed, above our own heads. YMMV.

Daneel_2• 4 years ago

I also strongly recommend against co-sleeping, both from the perspective of potentially harming or smothering your baby, as well as the poor quality sleep that this generally results in.

I'm not based in the US (Australia) and it's quite frowned upon here.

tcbasche3• 4 years ago

I would say it's considered heretical elsewhere in the world too, because of the vastly increased risk of SIDS.

It seems selfish to me to put that kind of risk on your own kid.

thematrixturtle4• 4 years ago

My understanding is that essentially all of the risk of cosleeping comes from parents who are one or more of morbidly obese, alcoholic or drug abusers. Got sources that say otherwise?

Here's one (small) study that says cosleeping is safer that an separate room:

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1440-1754.2007...

ghusto3• 4 years ago

I don't know why it's such a big deal in the U.S., but as you say, it's standard practice in most of the world. I'll go further and say that it's for natural humans.

Can you imagine a scenario in pre-history (when we could first call ourselves homo-sapiens) when the parents would be like "okay, you can fuck off a sleep in the corner now"? There's a reason children scream like that when you try it. Listen to the difference between that crying, and crying when there's just generally something a bit wrong like they're hungry. You can rationalise it all you like, but you're traumatising the child.

Having said all that, I did _not_ find it easier, but incredibly difficult.

tcbasche3• 4 years ago

Infant mortality was also astronomical in pre-history.

roland35• 4 years ago

Please don't cosleep. It can kill your infant. It's "heretical" because it's been shown over time that it leads to higher rates of infant deaths.

If you want to sleep near your child, a bassinet near your bed is just as close but much safer.

xcom86• 4 years ago

First off, congratulations! I love hearing about new people coming into the world. I'm currently doing some debugging while one of my little ones is slowly falling asleep (mine are 2 1/2 and 4 1/2).

There's a PaulG tweet about this that I'll have to dig up sometime about how parenthood changes you and yes it will change you.

The first six-months to a year you won't have decent sleep. You'll learn how to function.

Really I think the difference is that you don't have much time anymore for distraction, you don't tolerate it. You can't tolerate it. Sure, you'll still be able to browse HackerNews and play games (sometimes). But those long periods of drifting off, spacing out, taking hours to finish something...you'll learn to stop that.

You'll become more efficient. You'll have to: the baby is hungry or needs to be picked up from daycare. Dishes need washing, diapers need changing. Some young dev is dawdling on about something in their day? No. Where's the MR, here's what you need to fix. Get it done. Push it out. We don't have time for this sh*t.

It gets real. In a good sense. In the best sense.

I think you'll wish you did this years ago.

lanstein• 4 years ago

The only things that helped our kids learn to sleep (which took us several years to figure out):

- hot shower (not bath) before bed

- immersion school in another language

- sleep training

HTH, congratulations, and good luck!

magigift• 4 years ago

Thanks, I’m going to need these:)

the_doctah• 4 years ago

That seems like a lot for something humans do naturally.

reitanqild• 4 years ago

First: congratulations!

Second, two tips more tips from a dad of 5 children:

1. From somewhere after around 1 year: Put effort into teaching sleep skills: I did it by leaving the room after singing and prayer and coming back every 1 + 2n minutes where n is days. (Of course, use your parental judgment.) This was surprisingly effective in teaching them that Dad leaving the room doesn't mean Dad had disappeared, only that Dad is elsewhere and will be back soon. Important: do come back. Use a timer and follow it exactly. Come back even if the kid doesn't cry. It is important that they realize they don't have to cry for us not to disappear.

2. Also, when teaching them to sleep, don't let the fall asleep with anything (persons, toys, food, music, tv, absolute silence) that won't keep all night. We all wake halfway up many times during the night to check if everything is OK. For a small child a missing milk bottle is enough to signal "not ok".

lostmsu• 4 years ago

Just feed the darn creature well before bedtime. If it isn't diaper, babies wake up or can't sleep due to hunger.

throwaway67342• 4 years ago

I think you'll wish you did this years ago.

We just had our first this past weekend and so far your post reads entirely true, especially this.

XorNot• 4 years ago

I'd also add that "you'll have no time" thing doesn't really feel like that. Unlike a job or some other big but necessary commitment, the feedback loop on where that time is going is pretty quick: it's going to your child.

You feed a baby they're happy, you change a baby, they're happy, you get them to sleep and they'll be happier. It's a very different experience IMO to anything else: it takes as long as it takes, and it's all necessary, but the feedback loop is close to instant.

Source: am the father of an almost 7 month old so far (and was extremely skeptical I'd enjoy it as much as I actually am).

kickout2• 4 years ago

Congrats! I 'remember' life before my 5 year old, but I can't relate/understand life before a child. Fundamentally changes everything imo. Not in a bad way though! Exciting

jokethrowaway• 4 years ago

I have three kids and I still go to the gym, work and start side hustles. My kids went to nursery at 3.

It doesn't have to be as bad as you describe it, you need to communicate with the mom and agree on responsibilities. If you're providing and need time to keep up to date (so that you can have a career progression and provide even more), make it clear.

If you're both working, I doubt it will work. You're either going to hate each other, cannibalise both careers or not dedicate enough time to the kids.

After 3 it's easier as nursery / school give you some extra alone time - at that point I'd consider switching back to two workers in the family.

xupybd5• 4 years ago

Good to hear that it's possible to keep going with kids. Thanks!

We're lucky that we're on the same page. I want to work, she wants to be a stay at home mum.

wjamesg2• 4 years ago

If you are in a position where somebody can stay at home full time you’ll be fine

hnrodey• 4 years ago

Before kids: lay on the couch, bored, what shall I do today?

After kids: jealous of others laying on their couch

All jokes aside, congrats. You’ll figure it out.

michaelwda• 4 years ago

All experiences vary, so take this with a grain of salt. I'm writing this from my personal experience of 2 kids.

It will be fine, especially if this is your first. The first 6 months to a year are the hardest. Once the baby is sleeping through the night, and especially once you start daycare, you will have a normalish schedule. You must conform to a very strict 9-5 style schedule for both work and professional development. This will force you to be productive during those hours and then hard-stop. Evenings will be a crapshoot. Sometimes you'll have the energy, mostly not.

chrisseaton• 4 years ago

We had our baby when I was months to go with my PhD deadline - was a nightmare.

igetspam8• 4 years ago

I'd like to join the "congratulations" crowd but I just can't. Having a kid has made many aspects of my life more difficult and ultimately worse. I've lost countless hours of sleep, my focus is worse, my personal relationships are failing... life is just not as good as it used to be. I have been remote for nearly a decade and I long for the days of working in an office again. I don't miss the people, I miss the peace of having everyone around me working with noise canceling headphones and only knowing people are there when they make it obvious they want to talk and only then because there's a problem to solve that is actually solvable.

I'm not saying his to rain on your parade. I'm saying this because not all people are created equal. You don't have to like parenthood. I love my kid but that doesn't mean that I love what I've become. If you find yourself there (or if anyone else is reading this and thinking they can't believe I'm saying it out loud), it's okay. You can still be a good parent, even if you don't love it and you're not a bad person, as long as you try.

kickout2• 4 years ago

Yea, I know this feeling. Not everything is sunshine and rainbows. Absolutely a ton of work and many sacrifices involved

igetspam8• 4 years ago

I would absolutely kill and die for my partner and my kid but I have the latter because I desperately wanted the former and it was part of the contract. It was the price I had to be willing to pay and I would choose it again.

KennyFromIT• 4 years ago

Hang in there buddy, it gets better.

igetspam8• 4 years ago

I come from a large family. My kid is five. I disagree. Some people like this life. I just don't see the draw. I find comments like this rather condescending. I don't have to enjoy it. It's okay. That was my point. I'm a good parent because I'm committed to it and that's enough.

ccleve2• 4 years ago

It sounds like your problem isn't having a kid, it's not having a separate, quiet space to work. You can't do work that requires concentration with a small child in the house, you just can't. If you have a spouse or a relative or a baby sitter who can do child care for a few hours a day, then please go elsewhere. It will make you feel so much better when you can actually get something done. It will do wonders for your mental health.

igetspam8• 4 years ago

That does sound like a good assumption but unfortunately it's inaccurate. I genuinely don't like parenthood. I don't like negotiating with a child. I don't the mess. I don't like noise. I don't like cutting my day short because it's dinner time. I generally don't like being a dependency and not having freedom of mobility.

Parenthood didn't solve anything for me except that I got the partner I wanted.

FWIW, my office is and always has been isolated from the main part of the house, if not entirely detached.

peter4222• 4 years ago

I both dislike being a parent, occasionally dislike my child, yet love my child and am happy to be a parent.

Though a lot of this is because I have a lot of friends with children around the same age and complaining brings me a lot of joy. So I'd strongly recommend finding some fellow parents to chat with as you go (and unfortunately you'll find people without children to be living in a different universe).

xupybd5• 4 years ago

I've been in that different universe for a while. I'm in my very late 30s so most of my friends have had kids for most of the last decade.

pdmccormick• 4 years ago

I’m sorry to hear this, and you’re not alone (I’ve been WFH with young kids for half a decade so far). I know that feeling of pulling your hair out because the house is so _alive_ and distracting. Would you have any opportunity to go to a quiet workspace, a public library, a coffee shop, or return to an office part time? Best of luck to you.

igetspam8• 4 years ago

I am separated from the house by many doors. Work life balance is only a small part of what I don't enjoy.

mrslave• 4 years ago

I don't know what life is like where you live but working at a library might solve your need for a group-quiet-focus space. You might also find networking with locals an improvement at the local church or school parent's committee?

Among my friends those who wanted to be parents are amazingly fulfilled, albeit sometimes tired and stressed. They are also focused and ruthlessly prioritizing, and still get a lot of the most significant things they want to done. Those who fell pregnant through questionable life decisions are mostly less fulfilled with a couple of happy accidents thrown in the mix. Most of them do not have children however. Civilization thanks you for your service (assuming you do it properly).

igetspam8• 4 years ago

I've had an entire building to myself. I guess I made too much of a comment about working from home.

We did not have a kid through any mistake. There was an understanding. Sometimes you do things you don't like to get what you want.

Civilization would be better off with fewer people, not more. That's a weird thing to say.

I thought my point was clear but I guess not.

Enjoying being a parent is not a requirement. Good on you, if you do. If all you do is try hard and don't F them up, that's good too. It's not said enough but not everyone likes kids or parenthood and you don't have to feel alone or bad. It's ok.

Daneel_2• 4 years ago

This summarises my own experience very well. I absolutely love my kids, but parenting has been extremely tough. I really don't enjoy it, and feel like it's ruined my life too. I'm less productive both at work and at home because I have no energy and no free time. I never get to refill my energy tank, so to speak.

While I know the fun things will come back as the kids get older and become more independent (or want to take part in my interests with me), I can tell that it's going to take a long time before things return to a degree of normalcy. An example of this is that I used to game with my wife most nights - now I couldn't name the last time this happened. We're both too exhausted by the time we finally get free time around 10-11pm. I also used to do dirt bike riding with my wife - it'll be several years before we can all go and do that. I miss being able to come home from work and relax too. Now it's just different work once I'm home.

It's relentless and exhausting, and while I love my kids I wouldn't choose to do it if I had my time over again.

Quick edit - I should add that I give 100% to parenting my kids. I chose to go down this path with my wife and I make sure that my kids don't suffer for my displeasure. They're awesome people and have a great life. I just sorely miss my free time and my ability to be productive at work.

theshadowmonkey• 4 years ago

Something I experienced with a relatively young kid(2 years) and staying home and watching her grow up was really nice. But, I rethink or feel regret when she is sick crying all night and my head is pounding. I realized this feeling quickly goes away and you'll only remember the good moments with your kids and learn to love them unconditionally.

am1747444• 4 years ago

People's experiences vary hugely because newborns vary a lot. Some sleep a lot and rarely cry. Some have colic and cry non-stop. It is impossible to predict what life will bring. Statistically speaking your next 2 years likely won't be the most productive from the work perspective.

blisterpeanuts• 4 years ago

We were lucky, perhaps. Our newborn slept through the night, 11pm to 6am, nearly every night. My wife has always been protective of her sleep and needs a lot of it. She found that breastfeeding helped both her and the baby sleep (breastfeeding releases oxytocin which is conducive to rest).

3-4 weeks after the baby was born, we were going out to eat, mainly family-friendly restaurants at first. We also traveled frequently both by car and plane.

I would say, having a baby didn’t take away too much of our sleep and we didn’t slow down much at all. It helped that we had a happy, relatively quiet child, though she could occasionally scream with the best of them. Overall, a child brought great joy to our lives, which vastly outweighed any negatives.

Congratulations and remember to enjoy every minute of the experience. Before you know it, they’ll be a teenager. Then the fun begins… ;)

WesleyLivesay• 4 years ago

Can be highly dependent on the kid but in my experience:

* Definitely lost a lot of sleep in the early months due simply to how often the baby needed food. This does start to taper off eventually, but whether or not they will sleep through the night is a coin flip for a long time.

* If this is your first, and your partner is in the picture, I actually think that free time can generally still exists. I think I read more books, played more games, and wrote more in Baby 1 Year 1 than I did the year before due to the fact that we were stuck at home a lot more. My advice to try and preserve that time is to establish early a policy of trading off "baby time". In the early months maybe it is sleeping shifts (Person A goes to sleep real early then wakes up at 1AM and is on "duty" while Person B is on "duty" until midnight and gets to sleep in). And then as they start sleeping longer swap off who puts the baby to sleep.

* I have found that the biggest change is in the period after work ends and until they go to sleep. As they get older it just turns into a massive list of "I have to do this" during those hours. Whereas before kids that was a very unstructured time

* For mine the free time crunch was actually the worst in the 2-4 timeframe because they are old enough to be bored, too young to always entertain themselves, and are in constant need of assistance with life things like eating, drinking, being read to, etc.

One of the biggest things that having kids did for me was cause a "hobby triage" where many of the things I was doing had to be re-evaluated to allow for time to do the things that gave me the most joy. I don't binge watch as much TV, watch as many movies, or play a 1/10th of the video games, but I can still focus on the things that bring me the most joy and satisfaction.

syntaxfree• 4 years ago

Loudon Wainwright put it best: “life was a quiz — now it’s a test”.

Karupan• 4 years ago

Congratulations. Don't ask this question on the internet, and if you already have, don't read the answers. Babies are unique - your experience may be wildly different. While it's true that they will be the biggest commitment in your life, it doesn't have to be for the worse. Maybe work won't be the first priority anymore, and that's Ok. If you go into this with certain expectations, you maybe quickly disappointed.

aklemm• 4 years ago

It's exactly the same as before except now your eyelids are taped open and someone knocks out of your hand whatever you're working on every seven minutes.

But it's lovely. Spend the time with your kids so that they end up becoming people you enjoy spending time with.

social_quotient• 4 years ago

Enjoy the silence…

The silence of your house. The silence of your mind. The sounds of just you and your spouse talking, eating, sleeping.

The silence you never hear after you have kids. Parenting is full of noise. From the second they wake up, to the moment they close their eyes at night. There's always something making a sound.

It's the sound of laughter, and sometimes tears. The sound of little feet running, and big feet stomping. The sound of dishes clattering, and laughter echoing.

It's the sound of life, and it's beautiful. So cherish the silence while you can, Because soon enough it will be gone.

hunter-gatherer• 4 years ago

A couple things:

1. If you have hobbies, put them on hold indefinitely. Your about to get new ones. This is ok, though. I've found I have time for one only. The rest of my time has been re-discovering the world with my young daughters. Cherish it, and have fun with it. Enjoy refamiliarizing yourself with simple things, like watching a sugar ant walk across the floor.

2. Ive learned to make it a point to immediately put my phone or laptop away as soon as my kids are in the room. I don't have peer reviewed to evidence to back up my claim thatit has done wonders for the self esteem and confidence (compared to waht I often see) but it seems like it has. Always be attentive to them, first and foremost. HN can wait... it is probably just another post about a note-taking app anyways.

3. You can absolutely still learn and progress amd a fast pace in your career. You'll have to learn to study hard in short blocks of time, but if you make it a priority it will happen.

4. Kids have a weird way of getting between you and your partner. Don't forget to make intimate moments with them.

5. Some days and weeks are just going to suck. Just remember, it will be alright

6. If you have close friends or relationships you care about, I'd put some monthly reminders in your calendar for the next couple years to just gently remind yourself to call/text/email/whatever. It is hard to keep friends when you have young kids.

Disclaimer: I have a almost 4 and an almost 2 year olds -- these are just the things I've learned. More wiser (more kids, older kids) fathers probably have better wisdom to impart.

Edit: format

lostsock• 4 years ago

Excellent list and resonates strongly with me as the father of a 6 year old girl.

I especially love the "re-discovering the world" part. Watching my kid learn concepts, coming from a totally different starting point and putting her own spin on it has been wonderful.

That said, it is HARD to be a good parent. It's super rewarding but it's not easy.

mrcartmeneses3• 4 years ago

This is so true. But as long as you’re always aware of your failings (and accepting that it’s OK not to get it right all the time) then it’s possible to ‘step up’ to parenthood like so many of us do.

personalidea• 4 years ago

Relevant Lunar Baboon http://www.lunarbaboon.com/comics/finish-1.html

mrcartmeneses3• 4 years ago

As an older dad (not necessarily wiser) This is very good advice. I’d add it’s super important to make as many friends with as many other parents as possible. My wife achieved this by just turning up to the local children’s center pretty much every day when our daughter was a baby. Living in such a diverse and open area of the world (Hackney, London) certainly helped as there were plenty of likeminded parents to choose from and non of the catty suburban bullshit we’ve had to deal with later in life. Best way I’ve found to bring up a kid is with lots of friends for everyone

Waterluvian• 4 years ago

3 and 5. I’m on a phone so I won’t say much even though I have so much to say.

Having kids is the hardest thing I’ve ever done. And it’s the most fulfilling thing I’ve ever done. It’s exhausting and expensive and terrifying and messy and exhausting, but I wouldn’t ever give it up.

Whatever I thought “joy” felt like before kids… wasn’t it.

Buttons840• 4 years ago

Life is better after my daughter.

As for sleep, you might be only a few months away from consistent sleep. Whatever the case, rather than waiting for the early months to pass, try to enjoy them because they are the shortest time. The "chapters" of life get longer, there was little difference between 1st and 3rd grade, years of the same (still plenty to enjoy though). Yet those first hours, those first days and week are each their own chapter; the first 6-months it's own chapter. They go by fast, things change fast in the beginning. Just be aware.

Andaith• 4 years ago

I have no free time to code or game any more, and when i'm playing with the little psychos I don't miss it at all.

Spend more time on my phone though, due to the opportunity cost of doing anything except reading books(now web serials) in short bursts.

Harder to be spontaneous about weekends now, have to plan things out more because of all the work in taking small children out for the day.

My wife and I have strong opinions on different kids shows.

Two pieces of advice: Once they're on solids, brush their teeth twice a day. If they haven't spoken more than 5 words in their first 18mo, ignore everyone saying "they're just slow talkers, it's fine" and take them to a speech therapist. If you don't need it, awesome. If you do, early intervention has more impact.

rdtwo2• 4 years ago

It’s rough. Let her take as much time as she needs or wants 6 months - 2 years whatever if you can afford it AU pair is great. Also hire some cleaners if you can. Time is going to be super precious. It gets better after 6 months but just grind it out for now

xupybd5• 4 years ago

She's planning on being off for the next 20 something years. She wants to homeschool and this probably won't be our last child.

At least we have that one sorted.

rdtwo2• 4 years ago

Well if your wife is doing all the childcare then is not so bad (for you) assuming she can handle it. I have a lot of coworkers that somehow manage to have a life and do business trips with 2-3 kids if their wife is doing all the childcare.

wsc981• 4 years ago

Before the baby life was very easy. Just do as I (and my girlfriend) wanted, when we wanted. No real concerns. A lot of freedom with regards to how to spend time.

After our baby was born, initially my girlfriend spend most time with our daughter. I did carry our baby around a bit, but did not really do any of the other things like feeding, cleaning diapers and such. My girlfriend seemed to really want to do these tasks, so I let her be.

When our daughter got a bit older, initially my girlfriend was annoyed that I didn't play much with our daughter. But I guess when the baby is still very small, it just something that is hard to do for me, perhaps because I am male. Children don't get that interesting for most men until you can more properly interact with them, from what I understand, so I shouldn't be an outlier here.

Once our baby could walk a bit and talk I would spend much more time playing with our daughter. And our daughter now much prefers to play with me compared with my girlfriend.

Nowadays (daughter 5.5 years old) I feel as my girlfriend still mostly takes care of the feeding and showering as well (though I am happy to shower our daughter if she asks for it, as she did like up until half a year ago). I spend a lot of time playing with our daughter each day. We both help her a bit with homework.

Now our daughter does tend to get sick a couple of times a year, so that can be a bit of a hassle. We both get a bit more easily sick now as well. I guess it got something to do with our daughter going to school now and getting germs and spreading those in our home.

Since I work at home, it can be a hassle to work at times, especially if our daughter has a day off from school. She wants to spend all day playing with me, while I try to focus on doing work.

saisundar• 4 years ago

a) I really like how Paul G had phrased this - http://www.paulgraham.com/kids.html

"I had plenty of happy times before I had kids. But if I count up happy moments, not just potential happiness but actual happy moments, there are more after kids than before. Now I practically have it on tap, almost any bedtime."

This to me sums it up very well. Yes,parts of me miss the things I could do earlier. But as with all things in life, is this change a net positive in terms of happiness? "It very likely will be" - has been my experience thus far. My child, still a toddler, continues to be a suprisingly reliable source of happiness and laughs, well into their 6th year. [touches wood].

b) I had a fairly strong attachment to my wife/best friend as I do today too. However, pregnancy, and having a kid reduces your partner's influence on your happiness funnel. They are , for very good reason, less available during the first year of the child's growth.

I would thus highly emphasize on diversiyfing your sources of happiness ( with hobbies, men's night out etc) - otherwise, like I saw, there will be a quick fall in happiness levels in the initial few months.

sys_64738• 4 years ago

The child becomes the most important thing in your life. When the kid sneezes then you panic if it's your first. Everything else is really secondary and irrelevant until you find your feet. You get zero free time initially and any ideas you have about continuing hobbies in the coming months are not gonna happen.

The only thing more stressful than your first is twins as your first.

mrcartmeneses3• 4 years ago

The best advice I can give new parents regarding sleep is

1: get a baby bay. I cannot over emphasise how good this is. You can sleep next to baby without worrying that you are going to crush it so you get much better sleep. And once it’s feeding time, boobs out feed, sleep, easy. I’m on my third kid and the baby bay was the game changer.

2. Don’t feel bad about the whole “sleeping though the night” thing. The study that said kids do this had a VERY narrow definition of sleeping through the night (midnight to 4am) and most of the kids then didn’t continue to “sleep through the night”.

3. Once it is appropriate to stop feeding at night (I forget is it 1 year?? 9 months???) then do that but still give baby water. They will start to sleep through completely once they don’t need to feed.

4. Don’t believe any of that Victorian BS about baby needing to “self sooth”. Kids thrive when they feel loved and protected. Let them sleep in your bed for as long as they want like they do in east Asia. Being safe and secure at night helps them feel confident in the daytime

liveoneggs• 4 years ago

It's exactly like having a second job after your day job. Leave day job at 5 (wife has been calling since 2:30 demanding that you come home), start night job at 6 (why are you so late?), try to figure out some sleeping-on-the-job, back to day job by 9 (must be nice).

Easy. :)

The first two years are different for everyone and change every few months so just try to accept and experience it.

Here's the same comment I made to another guy five years ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15800558

rswerve• 4 years ago

Just a bit of advice based on my own experience (and mistakes). If you go into having kids thinking "how can I experience as little disruption as possible?" you're going to find yourself angry and frustrated a lot of the time.

Appreciate this little person. You are their whole world for the next several years, and it was your choice to bring them into the world, not theirs. Absolutely try to carve time and space for yourself so that you don't feel like you've lost a part of yourself that's important to you. But remember that the demands, and racket, and interruptions can be precious if you make space in your head to appreciate them.

On a more practical note, the first six months you'll be close to useless as a programmer, but those are also some of the most magical moments of your life. Enjoy them. People at work know what it's like to have a newborn.

ghusto3• 4 years ago

If you go into having kids thinking "how can I experience as little disruption as possible?" you're going to find yourself angry and frustrated a lot of the time.

Every parent needs to hear this. I can't believe the number of people who think it's okay to get angry with their children for getting in the way of their lives.

viraptor• 4 years ago

Your experience will be your experience. Some have it easy, some rough. If it works for you both and you have space you can move to a separate room to sleep for a couple of first months (don't ever mention to your wife how good your sleep was though :-) ) and you can take over for an early morning walk and let your wife sleep an extra hour or two.

For me the first few months were easy and the hell started a year in when one of you is sick almost every week and you have to deal with a kid in lots of pain who won't settle and can barely swallow food. I like to say I've got a many 5min intervals available now as before the baby - they just don't come in long blocks anymore. But - I'd recommend assuming that the next couple of months you'll not achieve anything and you'll be busy and tired the whole time. (If you're not, that's a great bonus)

senectus1• 4 years ago

before: selfish and self centered.

after: not entirely my own anymore. others hold a substantial chunk of it as a priority.

really thats what it renders down to.

evo_9• 4 years ago

Congrats man, it's exciting times!

I have a 20 month old boy, and just found out we're having a second (boy) next February. Plus, to make things interesting, I'm 55, but very fit.

I think the first few months are the hardest, esp. given what you're saying. The reason I think that is because you do have to make a big adjustment on all your time, not just sleep. Meaning, for the most part, you will have very little 'me time' now, and it's important to establish some free time of your own. I remember being in a bit of a daze as I worked though, and I did fall into the mental track of 'well my life is over now, better not even think about working on that novel again for 18 years'. The good news is that you will get through this and realize that it's all about time management and how / when you can do your own things.

For me that's an hour workout in the day when I can work it in, usually lunch (I work remote). Or I get up a little early and take care of whatever person project I'm working on, code, writing, music, etc.

It doesn't so much matter what you do, as long as you set some time aside to do something for you.

I'd also try to establish one night out with the boys, but this can be tricky. For me I've always played hockey and run the team I'm on so that's my 'night out with the boys'.

rr8082• 4 years ago

We had a lot of overnight batch jobs causing problems at work. I fed the baby at 12 and 3am every night and at the same time checked the batch, fixed things and made big changes to make it reliable. I got a lot of thanks for doing that, as well as time off during the day. :) Win win.

bachmeier• 4 years ago

Everyone's experience is different. I cut out working at home in the evening. I cut out a lot of inefficiency in my work - I spent a lot less time visiting random sites. It wasn't as hard for me as many claim.

Sleep was impacted for sure, but I worked together with my wife to reduce the impact. I've heard of couples that, for instance, both wake up for feedings at night. They deserve the pain it causes. Don't do stuff like that. Be practical. Naps and time away from the child for both parents is critical.

The things I gave up (internet, movies, reading, learning, working fewer hours) were not as valuable as what I gained.

codenesium• 4 years ago

You're going to think you have it figured out and then they and you are going to get sick. I'm 3 months in and the lack of sleep is tough. Hobbies are on hold. Just try not to think about it too much and focus on taking care of your kiddo, your SO and your job. There might be enough energy to do most of that.

keithnz• 4 years ago

I think the most striking for me with my first is that I felt a lot of things were suddenly out of my control, while there's always things to worry about, I never really worried that much, but the significance of having to look after another human life suddenly hit me and I realized there are a lot of things that can go wrong that, even if you take precautions, there's no guarantees. Which is generally true, but when it's about someones life other than your own, it feels a whole lot more significant. However, after that, as a Dad, for the first 6-9months, you are pretty insignificant other than as a helper, but as your kids become more interactive, being a dad starts becoming fun. Then there is a super sweet spot from 4->14 (ish, different with different kids) that you have to take EVERY opportunity to enjoy and engage with as much as possible. All during this time I also was improving myself as a developer also.

jcpst2• 4 years ago

Congrats! The first thing I usually tell friends is YOB.

Year Of Baby.

Don’t worry about what else is going on. Accept that you have different priorities right now. After the first year, you’ll be in the swing of it and parenting will be easier to integrate into your life.

I was a recording engineer for years before I had kids. I had no plans for kids, I was living lean while building up my career.

I got a new acquaintance pregnant. We became a family, I lined up a 3-year recording contract with a celebrity. Of course that was too good to be true and fell apart after 3 months.

I found myself working 3 jobs. Full time clerk by day, janitor by night, and a bootstrapped recording studio on weekends.

Of course, working 3 jobs and being a Father sucks. So I started learning software development.

My first programming/office job I drove 75 minutes each way, for less than a third of my current salary.

Let me get to the point though. After kids, I had an incredible awareness of how precious time is. It’s unbelievable how much I can get done now compared to before. And it’s because you start to see all this little slivers of opportunity. A minute here, 10 minutes there.

I definitely find time to keep my professional skills sharp. And because I’m all about balance, I’m finally in a low-stress job with a manager that stays out of the way, with hours that I choose.

I have health care because of my kids. I have paid time off because of my kids. I own a house in a nice neighborhood because of my kids. I am a more patient, empathetic person because of my kids.

Does it get frustrating? Of course it does. But we grow together. Sometimes I feel like having the family that I never planned saved me.

It will be exhausting at first. But you will adapt.

sylens• 4 years ago

I just had my first last year. Prepare to write off the first two months. It’s going to be rough and stressful and there will be times where you’ll wonder when you will ever have free time and a normal life again.

The good news is that it tends to improve in increments of about two weeks for those first two months. Then their eyes can start tracking things, including you, and you’ll get acknowledgement and a smile and it becomes so much more rewarding.

In terms of free time, communicating with your partner is going to become critical. Stuff like, “Hey I could use a few hours on Saturday to just write some code/play a video game/go to the gym” will probably require you to allow your partner to have a similar block of free time on another time, but it becomes something you just schedule and execute on like many other things in your life.

dzink• 4 years ago

You can do it and you will be better for it. A few tips:

1. Take shifts with your spouse and make sure the person resting you a sleeping in another room away from the noise. At least one of you should be rested at all times via naps or night sleep. When both are tired you will fight just because you’re tired. Expect fights if one is tired and the other one is on HN/Social Media/Games so don’t do it unless both of you have slept, eaten and done basic self-care.

2. Find out how to do sleep training first and work on it between 4 months and 12 months. If you don’t figure it out by 12 do cry it out if you have to.

3. Physical and mental work can work together. If you’ve slept, give yourself a problem in your head while you are watching the little one. Talk to them about it like a teammate - they are excellent listeners, will babble back, learn language from you, and keep your head not just in the game but actually coming up with solutions. Record said conversations too because your brain won’t remember much without sleep.

4. Get a great phone with a great camera and capture every moment that matters with audio, video, photos. They change so much in the first few months you will miss them for the rest of your life and you’ll want to hang out with their smily, cute baby videos when their older version talks back at you one day.

See it as an enrichment opportunity - when you’re tired you don’t remmener much so days fly by anyway, especially after the first month, when the baby starts smiling and responding to you.

If you’ve had even a little burnout coding, dealing with a baby will wipe that out and make you want to code again, just don’t try it while underslept - you’ll make more bugs than you fix.

thex10• 4 years ago

I don’t work well when tired

Well I don’t think anyone does… but yeah it’s exhausting. I hope you get lucky. I am only just recently starting to not get woken several times a night every night… for more than two years. It’s a couple months now: I still don’t feel _rested_ but I’m not as deprived as before. Other than sleep he is 100% great kid.

But I've lost so much executive functioning.

I read a lot of parenting-related subreddits now, likely because I'm not close friends with anyone else with kids.

ccleve2• 4 years ago

Strongly recommend that you and your spouse (hope you have one, this is hard to do alone) do night duty on alternate days. You'll get a full night's sleep every other day. It's essential.

Enjoy these first few weeks and months. Take all the parental leave you can. Maximize the amount of time you spend holding, playing with, and talking to the child.

Do it for you, because you will always remember these days.

Do it for the child, because their brain is developing very, very rapidly at this time, even if you don't see much evidence of it. The time you spend with your child now will have benefits for the rest of his or her life. (You won't have time to read books, but if you do have a look at "What's Going on in There? How the Brain and Mind Develop in the First Five Years of Life".)

A few days from now, programming will seem a lot less important.

katzgrau• 4 years ago

Parent of two.

In 50 years you won't care what kind of programmer you were as long as you were competent enough to provide. You will care about your kids and give anything to go back in time and spend just another few hours with them when they were little.

Don't worry about the bullshit that doesn't matter. Appreciate what matters while you have it.

Congratulations

cutthegrass2• 4 years ago

very much this. Excellent comment.

mithr• 4 years ago

I'm not at all a "kid person", and it's kind of amazing how little I knew about babies before having one. I'd say that despite this, overall everything's felt pretty ok most of the time, and I quite like the kid and really enjoy spending time together. If you can, try not to worry too much and roll with the punches.

The first 3-4 months involved the least amount of sleep, especially for my partner, who was breastfeeding. Babies that young need to eat every ~3h, but what they don't tell you is that they can take 30-45m to eat, so really it's ~2h at a time that you get between feedings, and in that you need to try to do basic taking-care-of-yourself stuff plus sleep. Getting some help, if you can manage that (whether family or paid) can be really helpful, especially once you can do a feeding or two with saved milk or formula, letting the other person/both of you sleep for longer stretches. We moved our kid to the room next to ours about a month in, though with the doors open, and that made it a bit easier to sleep too (for the first few months they always cry when they wake up, so you instantly know when something's up, but you don't need to lie awake listening to every weird noise, and they make plenty of those). Hopefully your workplace gives you most of this time off -- there's a reason 12 weeks should be the absolute minimum parental leave.

After ~4 months, well, I'm a very strong believer in sleep training as soon as you think the kid can handle it. Ours cried on an off for a couple of hours the first night (but not in distress, just complaining; by that point you learn to recognize the difference), ~10m the second, and has been sleeping ~12 hours a night (7-7) since then (been waking up every 3 hours to eat beforehand). Every kid's different, but based on my friend circle, while the exact sleep schedule differs, this does not seem particularly rare. We also hired a nanny because both of us had to go back to work, and that's further freed up our time -- now the kid wakes up with us at 7, the nanny comes at 8-9, stays until 5-6 (depending on our schedules), and then it's just the family until bedtime.

Once the kid starts sleeping through the night, you start catching up on sleep too, and any time they're asleep is your own. Maybe you have to do a bit more cooking or washing up, and certainly there's more on your mind, but mine's almost 2 and at least up to this point, I don't feel that I've had to "give up" hobbies, nor that I'm not as good a developer. And I get plenty of sleep.

Hayvok• 4 years ago

Congrats! I’ve had four, and just brace yourself: the first year is hard. No matter how “good” the baby, no matter how well they sleep, it’s just hard work.

Ten years in and I’m seeing some of the hobbies come back, some of the personal goals. But I have a different perspective on them now. They are complements to who I am, not what define me, and I’m always ready to put them back on the shelf.

Maybe you won’t reach the programming heights you dreamed for yourself, but fatherhood and family are infinitely more rewarding.

As I pause to write this, my three oldest are reading books on the floor and teasing each other good-naturedly. My wife is playing peekaboo with our one year-old, who’s giggling non-stop and staring at her mother with adoring eyes. We haven’t bothered to clean up dinner yet. I have a baseball game on in the background, and I was supposedly reading when I slipped over to HN and saw this post. Going back to the family now - my book and HN can wait a little longer - cheers and God bless you and your family as you embark on this journey. All will be well.

insickness• 4 years ago

Ten years in and I’m seeing some of the hobbies come back, some of the personal goals. But I have a different perspective on them now. They are complements to who I am, not what define me, and I’m always ready to put them back on the shelf.

I have no children and have developed a similar perspective as I've gotten older. When I was younger, I wanted my extra-curricular endeavors to lead into a full-time career, money and notoriety. While I did make money and achieve some notoriety, those activities now inhabit--what I consider to be--a healthier space in my mind. I am content enjoying them while I do them and also content with putting them aside for stretches of time. For good or for bad, I no longer feel like I need to prove something to the world.

holografix• 4 years ago

I don’t know who you are so I can only speak from my experience and who I am and advise you on what worked for me.

“ I'm worried, I don't work well when tired. I'm just starting to get in the habit of investing in myself as a developer and am reading a lot, practicing a lot. This has made me, in my estimation, a much better programmer. Does this end when you have kids.”

Yes. It largely ends _as you know it_.

The worst aspect of parenting for me so far (my kid is 15 months) is the loss of free and spontaneous time.

The way to counter this is to ensure you use your limited free time *really* well and to agree with your partner a structured “me time” window where you can go do what you used to “slip in” whenever you had an open window. Things like going for a run or gaming session with friends. Set a day a week and a time and that’s untouchable. Of course your partner gets the same.

Also as your kid is a small baby with very little interaction for the first 6 months make use of audio: get podcasts, audiobooks etc. making sure that nappy changes, rocking for them to sleep, etc etc etc are done while you are still enjoying that time by listening to something interesting.

I used to get the baby into a carrier (sort of baby backpack) for them to have a nap while I walked around a nearby park for 1 hour. That was very enjoyable and I always had a good podcast on.

Take naps, if your kid is a bad sleeper make sure you get some sleep when they do. Also make sure that both parents are not up through the night and “be rude” with your relationship. Your partner should prioritise their sleep when it’s “your night”. If they need to sleep on the ouch or another room, so be it.

kleer001• 4 years ago

I don't work well when tired.

Then you'll probably need to take off at least 4 months until their sleep cycles stabilize, if you're lucky and are good with sleep discipline. OR if you have someone else that can take care of that. You didn't mention your full situation.

For me my work def suffered in terms of time spent on deliverables. That said I didn't miss any deadlines.

sircastor• 4 years ago

Congratulations. Kids are wonderful.

I have one. I don’t know how people have more than one. The first several months are hard, especially is your wife is up every four hours for feeding and pumping milk. It gets better when the baby can eat other foods and sleep through the night.

You do not appreciate how much time and freedom you used to have. You will find yourself far less mobile and flexible.

Okay. Now that I’ve said that stuff: There is a tremendous joy that comes from seeing your kid do new things that everyone does. I was just commenting to my wife that it makes me super happy when my child successfully poops in the toilet. That sounds ridiculous, until you live for years without it.

Kids can bring you a lot of joy. I encourage you to enjoy it, and hope it is fulfilling for you.

cowvin• 4 years ago

It's really tough.

"I'm told that I'm going to have no time any more and good sleep is a thing of the past."

This is accurate, but you won't really get it until you're in the midst of it and you realize there is no way out. Your life will be very different from now on.

The most important advice I have for you right now is make sure you and your partner know you are a team. You will both be going through a difficult transition. Forgive them for everything you can and hopefully they can forgive you for everything they can.

RationPhantoms• 4 years ago

I'll start with the congratulations. So congrats first off.

Second off, parenting is hard. Very hard. Might be the hardest thing I've done personally. My first kid came into my life in the middle of me changing jobs, moving and then, within the first 6 months, purchasing a home. I turned the "adult" knob of my life up to 11. Don't be like me. Press pause on other big swings in your life. Yes, programming will take a back seat. The world will continue to turn.

You will absolutely curse your former self with how loose you were with your free time. You'll probably have a bit of resentment towards your spouse and the kid itself for changing that. That's okay but don't let it manifest. Every day from their birth will get better or you will adjust. Your free time won't be taken for granted anymore.

Thirdly, every kid is different. Find their formula and help them thrive. Some kids, like mine, come out hard charging & stubborn but never pausing. Others will have a different wavelength. Don't try to overcomplicate their time either. Sometimes just hanging with mom and dad, or dad and dad, or mom and mom is enough for them. Other times, a spatula can be an absolute wonder.

Lastly, you cannot do it alone. Lean on your parents, your spouse's parents, your daycare (if you can afford it), the local playground. Use all the tools at your disposal to get by and out. That means in the moment too. Take a mental breath, step outside and catch some fresh air. That doesn't mean leave your kid alone for 20 minutes. That just means making sure you take care of yourself so you can take care of them.

Good luck, have fun and don't be too hard on yourself.

snapplebobapple• 4 years ago

The first one was a bit jarring but also awesome. No one told me the kid comes out looking grey like the borg before quickly turning red and no one also told me babies are basically lizard people for the first three months but after that they come alive with human emotion. Don't be discouraged by the eating, crapping, crying thing that doesn't recognize your face, seem to get much out of cuddling, or show affection, it gets so much better, as does the sleep schedule and it takes about 2-4 months for that to happen (sleep schedule will improve incrementally as the kid gets bigger and can eat more at once).

My wife can go to sleep early but I am a bit of a night owl, so what worked for us really well for our second kid in the first 3 months was she would feed him and put him down in the slumberpod and I would watch the kid and work. When the kid woke up after 2-3 hours I would take him upstairs to feed and go to bed and the wife would take over. She got a solid 2-3 hours to begin the night so was much better rested vs the first kid and I was only getting mildly disturbed when she fed the kid in bed vs being woke up like I was for the first kid so the six solid hours I need weren't as disturbed as with our first kid. by month 4 the kid would only need 1 or sometimes 2 feedings so we switched to her taking him up feeding him and they both sleep and I would just sneak in around 10:30. kid would often sleep till 2-3 am before waking.

xyzzy_plugh3• 4 years ago

First off, congratulations. You're about to embark on a wild journey that will hopefully enrich your life.

Second, a lot of the comments here are giving parenting advice which you didn't ask for. Freely ignore all of it! Figure out what works for you and your partner. Every baby is different, and the most important thing is that you and your partner are on the same page and in agreement and are parenting together. For some parents, this means taking a back seat to what their partner wants to do, which is fine -- do what you have to do.

Third, prioritize sleep. You mention being worried about working when you're tired. You will be tired by default. You must rest. Don't fight it! Folks say "sleep when baby sleeps" but that's only half the story. Some other comments here mention that at least one parent should be fully rested as much as possible, and that is great advice. There's no point suffering together. Focus on resting, napping, whatever you need. If you don't get sufficient rest you're no good to anyone. Good sleep is certainly achievable. Good sleep for everybody all the time is unrealistic.

Fourth, there's mental exhaustion and physical exhaustion, and they are different. You will feel them differently. You have a wonderful hobby already and it will help you. Focus on physical rest first, and then the reading and practicing will help you unwind.

Software development is one of those professions where you're never really off the clock, as thoughts creep in constantly. This is a superpower if you wield it correctly.

Be selective about what you sacrifice, but health (physical and mental) are the foundation for everything else, so do whatever you can to keep (or improve) those. If there's steps you or your partner can take right now in those areas, do so.

runjake• 4 years ago

I had 3 kids at the same time. They are now 12.

The old me died when they were born. I grew to accept that pretty quickly.

It's not easy, but it's not bad. The first year was really hard and sleepless, though. It's probably a lot easier with just one baby.

I wouldn't go back for nothing. I've never wanted to.

I wish I had cherished my time with them even more, especially the younger they were.

After many years, the old me has started to return and I have a little time for hobbies again.

Now I can share my hobbies with the kids.

CrHn3• 4 years ago

I have a newborn and toddler. For the first, things were chaotic with the learning curve. The most mundane things, like getting the baby in the carseat to run an errand, felt overwhelming. Before the baby, I worked, ate and slept when I felt like it. My parenting style is pretty laid back and stayed that was until my toddler needed more routine. When they were a baby, I followed an attachment style and fed them when they seemed hungry and let them sleep when they wanted to sleep. I've gotten better as a programmer since having a child, but do not have time for personal projects or learning for pleasure.

Contact napping and baby wearing can be helpful to keep your baby happy and sleeping well. Skin to skin contact has benefits for months. I do not do well on little sleep. For the first, I avoided cosleeping until around 4 months because I was worried about SIDS. Co-sleeping following the University of Notre Dame's Mother Baby Sleep Lab recommendations helped me stay rested through night feedings and sleep regressions [1].

Probiotics can help mitigate colic, which is associated with sleep problems, which are a risk factor for developmental and behavioral problems later on [2]. b. infantis is missing in the microbiome of 90% of infants [3]. It's needed to digest the oligosaccharides in breast milk. Feeding b, infantis EVC001 to breastfed infants has been shown to reduce markers of chronic intestinal inflammation by 98% during the first two months of life. The microbiomes of babies are colonized with bifidobacteria in the first days and weeks after birth [4]. Evivo is a company that sells this strain. L reuteri has been shown to help with colic [5].

Taking advice from those emphasizing parenting where both parents share equally in all duties led me to feel like I was doing something wrong as the person who did most feeding and night waking. This works better for us. EEG monitoring has shown that women respond differently than men to infants crying. My husband does not wake in response to the baby crying and has trouble staying up when woken. Do what works for your family.

There is value in all caregivers being able to soothe and feed a baby. It's important to understand what your partner is doing because you both will probably feel like you're doing 60% of the parenting. Relationships can be challenging with a new baby. John Gottman's Bringing Baby Home was a helpful resource for me.

1. https://cosleeping.nd.edu/

2. https://bmcpediatr.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12887...

3. https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-020-80583-9

4. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7352178/

5. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3183958/

UtopiaPunk• 4 years ago

Having a kid is cool. It definitely makes some things more difficult, but then they giggle and you share your world with them and it works out. The first few months can be pretty rough as the new kiddo really interferes with your sleep schedule. They'll need constant attention, too, from an adult. It's temporary, though. This is why parental leave is so crucial and it is outrageous it is not legally mandated by U.S. law. The United States policy decisions are absolutely hostile to raising kids unfortunately (terrible health insurance system, very expensive child daycare, underfunded public schools, etc).

Do you live close to other family? That extra support has helped me a lot. We moved to be closer to family some time ago in anticipation of having a baby.

Once the kiddo starts getting into a predictable sleep routine, things start feeling better.

I personally really like working from home with a new baby. The child care burden is always on another adult besides me during the workday (which is important), but I can step in on my breaks or be an extra set of hands for five minutes when the other person needs to go to the bathroom or whatever. I think I personally would be upset if I had to go into the office and couldn't be nearby. But that's subjective. And I'm blessed with a good support network with several close family members who love this baby, too, and are eager to help. Having that extra support has made it enjoyable, whereas I can imagine things playing out differently and me being much more upset and stressed.

Fire-Dragon-DoL• 4 years ago

Congrats!

I can tell you my experience.

The first 1 or 2 months are hell. If possible, take off the entire first month. "sleep deprivation" doesn't describe enough how things work. The first week we slept 2 hours IN TOTAL. Of course our first kid was particularly bad, the second one we were trained, so we actually started sleeping 8 hours starting from second day (baby slept in bed with us, so "waking up" for feeding, is not very impactful).

After the second month, depending how organized you are, it feels quite relaxing! Baby sleeps most of the time (she slept between my legs while I played videogames), of course every child is different, but you have free time.

After that, your free time will slowly drop to very little, until you get it back when they go to school.

I want to underline the point that aside from the first 2 months, which are extraordinarily, nature gives you time to adjust to a gradual reduction of your free time, so it won't feel that bad.

For learning, I used to be like you, now I still read about coding, but a lot less. It might be because of my work though, I'm learning a lot there, I don't feel the need as much as before. Either way if I have free time, I try to use it for myself. I need to cultivate my hobbies a bit and I really miss those if I don't find an hour or two throughout the week.

That's it. Sounds painful, but as I said, nature gives you gradual adjustment.

You learn a lot of skills useful when managing other people, by being a parent!

binbashthefash• 4 years ago

You have a whole little human who will need your help to understand what the world is and how to survive it. You'll get to see them grow, learn, fuck up, laugh and become their own fully realized person. Love them, teach them, give them the agency and respect you would want them to give others. Congratulations, you're gonna do great

Balgair• 4 years ago

After the first few days you won't care that you don't have any sleep. Like, yes, you're tired as hell. But somehow, you just don't ... care (?). You'd take sleep, of course, but you don't seem to be all the put out about the loss of sleep when it comes to your child.

I noticed at first with my arms. My kids would cause them to go numb, cramp up, etc when they would fall asleep in them. It was painful, obviously, but I just didn't care that it was like I would have before being a parent. Before, oh this would have been a big deal. Somewhat normally I think, once I became a parent, my worries and pain levels just dropped away without me noticing. Like, I'd do anything for my kids, but it's not really all that voluntary anymore. I just will, end of story, my higher order functions aren't all that involved, it's more primal and deeper in my brain and psyche that this self-sacrifice comes from. And as such, I just don't care that I get no sleep.

Also, congratz! When it comes to the impending labor of your partner, just remember to be there and hold her hand and tell her she's amazing. Nature is going to take it's course, it's really something to witness. Your partner will do things that you didn't think were possible. Also, you're not going to get any sleep in the hospital either, especially after birth. There are SO MANY tests they run. Make sure to take notes on swaddling too.

theshrike79• 4 years ago

I changed to a more "boring" role on purpose for the first two-three years of my kid's life.

It was a role I could half-ass on my part and still look like I was full-assing it to the customer :) Did wonders for my mental health, I could come to work after 3 hours of sleep and still look like I was productive, even though I dozed off/zoned out multiple times during the day.

Other random advice:

- Take turns with the kid, one takes the evening/night shift other takes the morning shift. Of course there are things only the mother can provide, but you do the rest.

- Like someone else said, you don't have hobbies any more, maybe gym/walk/run for your mental health.

- Online multiplayer games are out, just play stuff you can pause at any time.

- If you live in a civilised country that allows for parental leave, use ALL of it. If you can work remotely, do it.

- The best time is when the kid can't move on their own, they just look cute and the amount of worries in the world is hungry-hot/cold-tired. The worst time is when they start moving around, an inquisitive kid will find the weirdest places and will pull at stuff at FULL POWER before you can intervene. =)

rich_sasha• 4 years ago

There is an interesting dichotomy, IME your available time definitely goes down drastically. That said, I find I actually get more stuff done (stuff that matters anyway), because you get brutal about cutting off distractions.

For example, I'm now training for a half marathon and learning a new programming language while parenting two small children. I never achieved such things while childless.

Similar with work, I used to be a long hours worker, I now get, hmm, 90% of the work done in 75% of the time.

So, yes you'll have less time, it will be tough in many ways, but that doesn't necessarily mean it will suck left right and centre. It will be different.

rvieira• 4 years ago

I can't tell you how it will be, of course, but I can share my experience.

It's going to be tough (in a way), but skip to the end for the good news.

Small children are completely dependent on adults. Most of their needs can't be skipped or postponed according to your schedule, so there's that. Children are hungry or need a nappy change, it can't wait. So most things will revolve around that.

Children get sick (and that's natural). Their immune system is learning, so they catch many things and need trips to the doctor, night nursing, lots of crying, etc. Fortunately, with modern medicine most things aren't dangerous, but it will tire you physically and mentally.

Children need stimulation. Believe me, playing games, teaching them, tickling their intellect will pay off hugely. I alway resisted the temptation of just giving them a tablet with flashy images or turning on the TV. This will probably remove any "spare time" you have, but make them curious and stimulate the imagination, you will definitely see incredible results in a couple of years.

Now the good news, for the people that have a healthy relationship, atter as little as 3 or 4 years, you will get your best little buddy. When you start sharing inside jokes, when you can discuss the plot of your favourite cartoon, when they say "I love you", it will bring tears to your eyes. It's an incredible feeling.

ghusto3• 4 years ago

"I'm worried, I don't work well when tired"

Don't worry. You'll learn that your current definition of the word "tired" is wrong. Your current "tired" will become your new "okay", and I'm no I'm not joking.

However! You'll also learn that this attitude of "I need sleep to perform" is in your head, and be amazed at what you'll be able to do when you have to. You'll find that not having a choice in what you _have_ to do, works wonders for your definitions of "can" and "can not", because the next day you'll still be at work, and you'll still get things done. I also don't do well with little sleep, but here I am (still getting promoted).

To answer the title question more generally; it's night and day. I now understand how self-centred and egotistical I used to be. Of course the degree won't be the same for everyone, but I think there's still a certain level of egocentricity that anyone without a child can't escape.

Best advice I can give you is not to stress about a single thing. Statistically, it's much, much, more likely that it'll all work out. Worrying about the very small possibilities is too much when you're already over-tired, and it wouldn't do any good in any case.

giomasce• 4 years ago

Father of two daughters of 0.5 and 2.5 years here. It's true that your life will be disrupted, don't try to work around that. Personally I am happy it happened to my life, even though it's hard and at times it has been very hard.

Lots of good advice in the thread, so allow me to write the only thing I haven't seen yet: remember that your wife/girlfriend (assuming you are the male of a MF couple) is having it harder than you. You don't have to breastfeed, your genitals or belly are not wounded and scarred, you don't have hormones ups and downs. Please have patience with her.

28304283409234• 4 years ago

Father of two teenaged daughters. And still married (against the odds).

Your partner and you are about to morph as significantly as a caterpillar.

Be aware of the fact that you learned how to be a parent in a com-plete-ly different way than she. Different rules, assumptions, roles, implicit and explicit.

This, I think, is part of why many marriages fail after having kids. Both parents feel the absolute burden of being a Good Parent, but both have completely different interpretations of what that means.

Get counseling early. Talk, talk, talk. Check assumptions. Be loving and kind to yourself and her when you are too exhausted to talk. Yes, go to bed angry. Knowing that in the morning you will be rested and able to discuss whatever angred you with a clearer head.

Be aware of the fact that you are becoming butterflies.

Oh, and yes. My brain did turn to mush for the first three years or so. I was a zombie at work.

t0bia_s2• 4 years ago

Father of three small kids here. One thing... It's hard, but my life and basically everything that I can do now have sense. There is no time for b*s.

incomingpain• 4 years ago

My first is due 3 days ago.

Congrats!

I'm told that I'm going to have no time any more and good sleep is a thing of the past.

My daughter is awesome and is rarely a problem. She was a great sleeper. Yet this is true. Currently going on like day 8 of fevers and multiple doctors saying nothing.

I'm worried, I don't work well when tired.

Me neither, I find meditation helps a ton.

I'm just starting to get in the habit of investing in myself as a developer and am reading a lot, practicing a lot. This has made me, in my estimation, a much better programmer. Does this end when you have kids?

For 3 years so far yes.

What was it like for you out there that have gone through this change in life?

When I was researching how to dad. 5-6 years is what they say, then school, friends, etc will be what saves you. You then get to do adult things.

Here's the thing, all this is not a big worry at all. Its other things you dont expect to happen that will get you.

Your spouse will suddenly not want sex anymore. I thought it was a trope/cliche but it's true. I dont know about you but in a monogamous romantic relationship, sex is the first and most prominent indicator for health of relationship. No sex means something is very wrong.

The one that really gets me. We were at my sister's for a party and I was inebriated for sure. I went to play with the kids instead of sitting around with adults, I dont know, talking bullshit. I had like 6 kids playing with me in the sand. My spouse comes up to me and says she cant trust me to be alone with our daughter. I still cant figure out why. Yet here I am alone with her every day for hours and nothing ever goes bad.

kashunstva• 4 years ago

Partly it depends on your partner's situation - parental leave etc. But, in whatever case, yes, almost everything changes.

Your free time will be minimal and your sleep will be disrupted. The sleep issues largely resolve after the first 6-12 months. But the need to structure your life around the needs of your child will remain to a greater or lesser extent forever. But your life will change in ways that you can't possibly anticipate and if you're open to whatever happens, the surprises can be a source of great joy.

Not long after my daughter was born, 14 years ago, I completely left my career. We had saved a lot and didn't need two incomes. I stayed home with my daughter. Because she showed a lot of musical talent early on, I became a homeschool teacher and full-time caregiver so she could practice. Next week she is heading off to a full-time arts boarding school as a violin major.

I (mostly) enjoyed what I did for a living, and I enjoyed my extra-curriculars. But pivoting to looking after her needs has been infinitely more gratifying. So I guess I'd say, be open to a path that looks completely different that what you can see down the road right now.

aaaaaaaaata• 4 years ago

How different are the future earnings probabilities of "pro" musicians at the University level compared with "pro" athletes?

Curious if this is reviewed as carefully as it is in other groups I've come across.

giantg2• 4 years ago

"Does this end when you have kids?"

Yep, my career has taken a nose dive since having a kid. I've gone from a high performer to a low performer. I have given up some hobbies and have limited time for others.

AbrahamParangi• 4 years ago

Make time for your relationship with your partner. Between work and your new baby it will be challenging in new ways that you don’t yet appreciate and this will put stress on your relationship.

You will have to prioritize your efforts and date night might be on the chopping block early.

Make time to invest in that relationship too, because you need each other and because both of you deserve it.

swah• 4 years ago

Sleep suffers, but your max happiness goes way up.

To be honest I didn't feel as deep of a connection for the first months, when the baby is very much into the mommy.

Hearing "daddy" for the first time, though...

freedom20992• 4 years ago

In my case my son (a month old) seems to be more attached to me (the father). Yes… the mother provides the food but it is way calmer in my arms then hers!

hnthrowaway0328• 4 years ago

My experience (2 years old):

- Each baby is unique so whatever others said might not make sense to your case

- Sleep: Yes good sleep is a thing of the past, you would be lucky if you can grab a full 6 hours. The problem is that even when babies can sleep tight for 10 hours, they start their sleep too early so the best you can get is around 6 hours of full sleep. The first year is the worst so eventually you will get accustomed to it.

- Time: Well it depends. If you are the primary caretaker (basically means you sleep with baby) then yes, you will have very little time to yourself. My wife sleeps with baby so she has very little time and I don't think it's going to change in the near future. Basically, my recommendation is to mentally accept that you are going to have ZERO HOUR for hobbies and such for the first few years, and then you will feel a lot better when you actually do have a couple every day. Lowering the expectation is the key to a happier life. Also, sometimes you do have time, but you have NO energy.

- Depression: It's a real thing. I'm sure I'm depressed because I'm way more easy to get irritated after than before. Not sure if it's going to be your case though, again every family is unique.

- Efficiency: As others said, you will become more efficient, because you have to. A lot of things have to give way and the best way is to do them efficiently.

- Health: It's probably too late now, but I'd advise you to exercise as much as you can before the due date. Losing sleep + everything else create a lot of issues with my health. I was never allergic to anything but this year I was suddenly hit with a half-year long allergic session. Some days feel so bad that I have to take a sick day. My back is also suffering from holding the baby for too long. Basically, expect that you are going to suffer some weird illness in the first few years if you do not have excellent health.

- Relationship: If you are the husband, expect your wife to be further away from you from now on for an indefinite period of time, maybe until the kid leaves for college. I think it's just hormone. The moment my wife gave birth to the baby, I realized that she changed significantly. She now has a new purpose that is going to override everything including her own life. So expect relationship to slowly go away (and I have a hunch that it has a lot to do with men's mid-life crisis).

- Overall I'd say it's not a good experience for me. Yeah for sure the baby is cute, but cuteness does not override everything I lost. Hell no. And there is going to be more trouble (or learning experience as others say).

helionsantos• 4 years ago

First of all, congrats!

I can't answer properly given that I have never worked professionally as a software developer (yet), but I have learned to code while (and partially motivated due to) my second son being born, while holding a full-time job as a construction worker.

Time and sleep you will have available for yourself is quite relative and depends on your child. There are babies that sleep less and babies that sleep more, but in general, a well fed baby who feels comfortable in his environment will sleep most of the time and thus not demand that much attention, specially during the first months. What happens a lot is that they sleep for 30~40 minutes and then demand attention, and go back to sleep again. It is something you can manage, specially if you are used to work for short bursts of time and rest (e.g. Pomodoro technique).

You can also learn tricks on how to make the baby sleep and sleep better, and with time you will learn things that work with your baby. You can also negotiate with your partner if you feel that you studying is important, specially if you are the bread winner.

rrival• 4 years ago

Things that made year 1 tolerable:

- Understanding your time horizon just went from weeks/months to "today" for all definitions of "today" for awhile

- Boot Camp for New Dads (https://www.bootcampfornewdads.org/)

- Night nannies (~10 weeks)

- A Doona stroller

- Mom's On Call (book) - my daughter was sleeping 630pm-7am at 3.5mos

- Silver nipple cups (cracking/chafing = bad)

- Slumber Pod (for travel)

- Nest cameras (and a travel wifi hub like GL-MT1300 that acts as a wifi<>wifi bridge)

And at least in CO, daycare waitlists are a real thing. At 6 mos prego we were told we were late to register.

e-clinton• 4 years ago

You won’t get good sleep again until the baby is 6 months old and eating solid food.

When the baby is finally born, you (the dad?) be sure to sleep well those first 24 hours in the hospital. Once you are home, a lot of work will fall on you as you will caring for both the baby and the mom. Good luck.

misterioss• 4 years ago

I tried to find new hobbies that both of us can enjoy. Lego, drones, playing music instruments, learning new things in biology or physics. It works.

rr8082• 4 years ago

I forgot to recommend asking for help. Ideally parents close by, but friends, relatives ask for baby sitting and time out. If you dont have anyone like this dont do it yourself, get a nanny or similar.

pvorb2• 4 years ago

Is there even a single mother's view in this thread? I bet no. Mothers don't have time and power for the first few years.

So my advice is this: Don't be unfair to your wife and think about her career sooner than later. Having kids is the number one reason why women earn less and there's often no way to catch up until retirement. So the sooner she gets back into a full-time job the better.

It's not about the things this thread suggests. Having a good time with the kids is important, yes. But this is quality time, anyway. The mother will also enjoy it. It's about all the rest. Doing the laundry, going grocery shopping with the little ones, cooking, doing the dishes, etc.

Also give her time for herself. If you're in a job, you have a large part of your day talking to adults. Mothers of young kids don't have this opportunity, so give her some time without the kids where she can do whatever she wants.

tbihl2• 4 years ago

So the sooner she gets back into a full-time job the better.

OTOH, careful with this. Your wife has already endured her entire upbringing of people telling her that her worth is tied to her job, and you may be the only chance to encourage her to stay home with the kids, should she want this. If you fail to signal your assent to this arrangement, she is plenty likely to feel trapped needing to go back to work when she wants to be home with babies and young children.

pvorb2• 4 years ago

That's also true. It's very easy to build traps, so make sure to know what she wants.

But I'd say dependence on the father is the bigger trap. If you haven't worked for a few years, you are fully dependent on your partner. At least the other options aren't nice.

tbihl2• 4 years ago

Don't be a sleep martyr. Some people get the idea in their head that they'll stay up because the short sleep won't be worth the trouble, and I think a part of that is motivated by "I haven't slept in X hours/days" or "only X hours in Y days." Don't do that.

Communicate with your wife, don't waste time, and tag her out when feasible, or else this generates resentment.

zuzuleinen2• 4 years ago

A bit off-topic, but regarding

"I'm just starting to get in the habit of investing in myself as a developer and am reading a lot, practicing a lot. This has made me, in my estimation, a much better programmer."

What are the practices that gave you the biggest benefits?

xupybd5• 4 years ago

Lots or reading / listening.

I normally listen to an audiobook on the way to work. Most of these are now software development books. The more I listen to the more ideas I'm exposed to. There are so many great books out there. I was once told a story about a guy my old boss fired because he tried to implement something he read about in a book. It gave me the idea that I shouldn't trust books for programming learning. That was stupid of me. I don't think that was the point of the story.

Then there is the idea that you don't skip over anything. If you want to use a library and you find your self getting stuck, then go to the docs and learn everything you can about that library. Get a good deep understanding. I've found that while this costs time up front it saves lots of time in the long run. Not only does it save time but prevents interruptions. Once you understand something you don't have to stop and think as often. This makes development much faster.

The other thing I've found that helps is practicing focus time. Setting aside time where all your distractions are blocked. I use blocking tools to give me blocks of time that I can't even open my email.

Every book I've read has given me something to think about at least.

Recent books:

Domain Modeling Made Functional: Tackle Software Complexity with Domain-Driven Design and F# By: Scott Wlaschin

Get Programming with F# A guide for .NET developers By: Isaac Abraham

Learning How to Learn By: Tesia Marshik , The Great Courses

Fundamentals of Software Architecture: An Engineering Approach By: Mark Richards , Neal Ford

Stolen Focus: Why You Can't Pay Attention By: Johann Hari

Stein on Writing: A Master Editor Shares His Craft, Techniques, and Strategies By: Sol Stein

The Phoenix Project: A Novel about IT, DevOps, and Helping Your Business Win 5th Anniversary Edition By: Gene Kim , Kevin Behr , George Spafford

Understanding Software: Max Kanat-Alexander on Simplicity, Coding, and How to Suck Less as a Programmer By: Max Kanat-Alexander

The Field Guide to Understanding 'Human Error' By: Sidney Dekker

Ultralearning: Accelerate Your Career, Master Hard Skills and Outsmart the Competition By: Scott H. Young

Designing Data-Intensive Applications: The Big Ideas Behind Reliable, Scalable, and Maintainable Systems By: Martin Kleppmann

Clean Architecture: A Craftsman's Guide to Software Structure and Design By: Robert C. Martin

The Goal: A Process of Ongoing Improvement - 30th Anniversary Edition By: Eliyahu M. Goldratt , Jeff Cox

Thinking, Fast and Slow By: Daniel Kahneman

The Complete Software Developer's Career Guide: How to Learn Programming Languages Quickly, Ace Your Programming Interview, and Land Your Software Developer Dream Job By: John Sonmez

The Pragmatic Programmer: 20th Anniversary Edition, 2nd Edition: Your Journey to Mastery By: David Thomas , Andrew Hunt

zuzuleinen2• 4 years ago

Thanks for your detailed answer!

Ask HN: What was life like before and after a baby

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