I own a domain that a big corporation wants to sue me into acquiring. Help

http://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/kyde9/i_own_a_domain_that_a_big_corporation_wants_to/

by pagliara • 15 years ago

227 64 15 years ago

thinkcomp• 15 years ago

You can always file a USPTO TTAB opposition to any of that company's registered trademarks. Or several. It's when you do several that they tend to get our their checkbook--each opposition can cost mid-five-figures for a big firm to defend, or in some cases even six.

veyron2• 15 years ago

Every time I see a story like this, I think about http://nissan.com/

ricksta• 15 years ago

how did they have so much money to fight the cases against nissan? Their website seems like it was stuck in 1998. Why didn't they try to sell it to nissan motors for like a mill or something?

veyron2• 15 years ago

They've been taking donations http://www.digest.com/Donations.php

I would guess that nissan motors didnt actually want to shell out 1M to buy the name. They probably offered a paltry sum, which Uzi rejected, and then tried pulling a digital version of Eminent Domain. If everyone knew how long and how expensive the proposition would be, I'm sure Nissan Motors would have preferred to just have paid a million for the domain

beedogs• 15 years ago

What amuses me is that the prices are all current, so the site is clearly still being updated... maybe they're going for that "Classic Internet" look.

wildmXranat• 15 years ago

I hope he kicks their butt.

md1515• 15 years ago

Good luck to him!

DiabloD3• 15 years ago

The only mistake he made was asking Reddit instead of a lawyer who specializes in dealing with boneheaded corporate maneuvers.

Otherwise, I wish him luck.

joezydeco• 15 years ago

Why was asking Reddit a mistake?

Put yourself in the OP's shoes. You're a college student and you get a notice like this handed to you. It's not like you have an IP lawyer on retainer or cash to run out and hire one instantly.

In fact, one helpful redditor pointed out that his college might have a law school that would be willing to help with his case as a teaching exercise. I bet the OP knew nothing about that, and that's worth the price of visiting reddit alone.

maratd2• 15 years ago

Simple. It was a mistake because it looks like the kid would accept the offer if it was larger. Go to an IP lawyer and watch dollar signs pop out of their eyes. In a case like this, they'll assist with negotiating a fair price on contingency. If the kid really doesn't want to sell, he can go to EFF or get a lawyer to do this pro-bono. They love this sort of David vs Goliath stuff.

ig1• 15 years ago

I don't know about in the US, but a lot of UK universities will have a pro-bono law team that will help students with legal problems (run by professors but with law students in observance so they can get some "real" world experience).

staunch• 15 years ago

Even going so far as entertaining an offer could screw him in court. He needs an IP lawyer familiar with this ASAP.

tomcam• 15 years ago

This site may provide some help. They sold licensed fabric items on eBay that contained Disney characters. Repeat, licensed. Disney tried to take them down using DMCA and other strongarm tactics. They won against Disney using DIY techniques--no lawyers involved! I know it's not the same situation but you would be well advised to visit their site at http://www.tabberone.com/Trademarks/Articles/Tabberone/Fight...

pbreit• 15 years ago

Hire a lawyer on contingency and get the biggest payout you can, for goodness sake. Then set up a new domain for yourself and count your blessings...winning the lottery is very rare.

sudonim2• 15 years ago

On the converse of this, someone has been cybersquatting my last name for about 10 years. Any advice on how to get it?

Details: I own the .co.uk version, but not the .com. My dad has had a company registered (not in the US) with the name in it. The cybersquatter seems to have squatted a bunch of dutch last names and isn't associated with the name at all.

lemma2• 15 years ago

I'm on the same boat. In my case, I even attempted to contact using the "make an offer" form and never received a reply. Strange way to do business.

sudonim2• 15 years ago

There is no "make an offer" in my case. It just redirects to an electric bike website.

cookiecaper• 15 years ago

I would never do that. Domain squatters squat just waiting for someone to come around and ask for the domain, that's why they buy them in the first place, and then they try to sell at exorbitant rates ($15k-$20k in my experience). Doubtless some companies pay that, which makes squatting profitable.

If you express interest in a domain name, the squatter knows they should renew it forever because at some point when your company makes more money or whatever you'll buy them out for the asking price or something pretty close to it. If you don't express interest and no one else does either, and traffic is minimal, the squatter will drop the domain as unprofitable (no money from the ads on the parking page, no interested buyers = unprofitable domain).

flexd3• 15 years ago

I'm in a similar boat. A Norwegian name squatting company holds a bunch of last name domains not really using them for anything besides linking to their site "so everyone with that last name will be able to use it".

The problem is the they want like a dollar per month to give you one email address. I'm well aware that is not much but it's annoying that they claim to do this to "share the wealth" of that domain name with everyone with that name. The problem is they are taking money for email addresses and you can't use the domain name (or even a subdomain) for anything.

I'm more interested in having the domain for my family, I would have no problem giving subdomains and email addresses to anyone with my name contacting me.

At least according to Norwegian law (which is probably similar to International domain laws?) you do not really have a case unless you can prove you have the rights to own that domain. And since you do not really require anything but a name to own a .com you will probably have a hard time doing so :-/

bigiain• 15 years ago

"A Norwegian name squatting company holds a bunch of last name domains not really using them for anything besides linking to their site "so everyone with that last name will be able to use it".

The problem is the they want like a dollar per month to give you one email address. "

That's a perfectly reasonably business model. Renting email addresses is quite clearly "using" a domain. It might not be a hackernews/startup-web-business, but they've thought of a way to try and make a living and registered the domain first - what makes you think you have any sort of claim to "have rights to own taht domain" than they do?

geegee• 15 years ago

If this is the company I think it is, then they took my last name as well. They're legitimately using it, even if you may not like the use. I got around it by using the .me extension instead. You can always pick one of those others instead of .com.

ajkessler2• 15 years ago

Ugh, it hurts to read this kind of advice. Sue! Punitive damages! You can get costs! (btw, you probably can't get punitive damages, at least from the little info you've provided, and costs =/= attorney fees)

The best advice in that thread was to seek out on-campus legal aid. At the law school I went to, there were clinics that dealt specifically with entrepreneurship and IP. Look around, I'm sure other schools run similar clinics. You generally don't even need to attend these schools to utilize their services.

At the very least, if you can't find something like that, or the deal you're working on is a little above their pay grade, some professor on campus can point you to somebody that does good pro bono work or is willing to work on contingency.

If it just turns into a negotiation, you could do this yourself, but, honestly, you're probably going to get taken to the cleaners, both financially and emotionally, if you end up negotiating against professionals. Get a lawyer. There's no shame in it. http://www.ajkesslerblog.com/hired-guns/

Kudos2• 15 years ago

I think the best advice he got was to contact the EFF, who are getting together a list of lawyers who will help him pro bono.

ajkessler2• 15 years ago

Didn't see that advice, and don't know much about EFF, but yes, anything that puts him in touch with a lawyer who actually knows what he's doing is good advice.

I might also note that when hiring an attorney, you want to shop around, even if you're getting pro bono work. Check references and ask around (you can ask the lawyers you're interviewing about the other lawyers you've interviewed). Don't just settle on the first guy you come across that has a diploma hanging on his wall.

lacker• 15 years ago

Their initial offer was $150. I said no, that I had put way too much money into it for that low of a price. They came back with $250.

Anyone who's bickering about $150 vs $250 to acquire a domain is not a "big corporation". The OP is being bluffed.

techsupporter• 15 years ago

I looked around the WIPO site and found an arbitration case that meets the facts the reddit poster claimed. Either he found a WIPO case and decided to make it a huge "AskReddit," or, yes, the OP is going up against a quite large company.

(Not linking here in an attempt to preserve privacy.)

bambax2• 15 years ago

Indeed, there is a case that seems to match all elements (domain starting with a w).

If that case is indeed the right one, the complainants have had a trademark on their mark since 1953, and yet they let the domain be first registered in 2005, and then bought by the current owner in 2011.

So, they could either have created the domain before 2005 or buy it between 2005 and 2011, but they chose to go against the current owner in June of this year only.

There should be laws against such carelessness.

0x122• 15 years ago

How can you preserve privacy of something posted to reddit?

lsc• 15 years ago

this was my thought as well. but others seem to disagree; my reddit comment to that effect was voted down, and others here seem to have looked up the actual case and think it's legit.

Why would a serious law department make an offer that domain squatters regularly turn down when selling obscure domains to nobodies like me? I tried to buy prgmr.net and prgrmr.com (note the extra 'r') from the squatters that had them; I offered $300 a pop, but they wouldn't budge from three grand. (they can keep 'em if they think they can get three grand of value out of them. What do the economists say? the highest value use? They aren't worth two new servers to me, that's for sure.)

It sounded like a grand or two would have made the guy happy, and it sounds like the company in question has already sunk several times that into legal fees. Are serious companies really that irrational?

sneak• 15 years ago

That may constitute a bad faith attempt to profit from the domain from the trademark holder, and may cost him the domain.

tomp• 15 years ago

Why is that bad faith? He simply said that it's worth way more for him. Besides, if I were in his shoes, I would fight "bad faith" with "bad faith" - if a company would threaten to sue me, then I would certainly bump the price some 10x or so.

ohashi• 15 years ago

(1) the manner in which the domain name(s) is/are identical or confusingly similar to a trademark or service mark in which the Complainant has rights; and

(2) why the Respondent (domain-name holder) should be considered as having no rights or legitimate interests in respect of the domain name(s) that is/are the subject of the complaint; and

(3) why the domain name(s) should be considered as having been registered and being used in bad faith

------------------------------------------------

The issue is registered AND being used. It would be pretty hard to argue that it was registered in bad faith when it is his name. Of course, ask the Nissan guy about this, there are exceptions.

larrys2• 15 years ago

Actually it is common in domain name disputes like this for large corporations represented by even white show law firms to offer only trivial amounts of money for domain names. Amounts that fall far below the cost of pursuing a case legally.

UDRP specifically refers to "out of pocket costs" so offering a small amount of money allows the complainant to not exceed that without jeopardizing and potentially enhancing (by baiting the owner) any future legal actions.

One reason is to send a message of fear to the registrant that the company that wants the name is unreasonable and crazy and will take all actions at any cost to get the name.

Same strategy in personal injury cases. Some companies will settle for any reasonable amount because the legal cost is high. Others would rather send a message by spending three times the money on legal costs.

jackvalentine• 15 years ago

This has just reminded me I need to put up a splash page with my contact information on my domain, which is myfirstmylast.com

Currently there is nothing there, but I use it for email every day - it'd be a shame to lose the domain because it looks like I'm not using it to outsiders.

mjs00• 15 years ago

There's no domain registration requirement for .com (that I'm aware of) for you to have a public web page on a domain.

RexRollman• 15 years ago

Exactly. A domain can be used for many things, not just HTTP.

rumcajz• 15 years ago

Sell the domain name to their largest and/or most aggressive competitor.

wdr1• 15 years ago

Nobody would bite, as they would likely quickly lose the domain via UDRP.

DaveChild4• 15 years ago

I have some experience of a similar situation, having at one point run a web dev blog at ilovejackdaniels.com, before the JD legal team contacted me ... and I'm on a new domain now.

The problem, as explained to me by a lawyer (I am not a lawyer, so don't go taking this as legal advice, as I'm paraphrasing what I was told), is that legal departments for really big corporations just care about winning. It doesn't really matter whether they are in the right or not. What's going to make it difficult for you is that they have a huge amount of resources that you don't.

It sounds in your case like they have no actual case for cybersquatting or similar. But that doesn't mean they won't sue you. And if you can't afford to be sued, then that's an automatic win for them.

You also need to evaluate what level of stress and trouble you're prepared to go to to protect the domain. It may suck, but there will be a point at which it would be better for your sanity and your health to let them have the domain and get as much as you can out of them for it.

If I were in your shoes (and I was) I would first visit a lawyer. Get some proper advice.

Shengster• 15 years ago

The fact that your domain doesn't exist anymore is somewhat troubling.

masklinn• 15 years ago

> I have some experience of a similar situation, having at one point run a web dev blog at ilovejackdaniels.com

it was awesome. Is that why the site died?

scq• 15 years ago

It's still around, just called Added Bytes (http://www.addedbytes.com/) now.

DaveChild4• 15 years ago

I moved it to a new domain, as scq was kind enough to also comment. It's at http://www.addedbytes.com now.

atirip• 15 years ago

I'm sorry of asking, but what's wrong in the US when you go to the court alone, without the lawyer? I'm asking because I live in Europe, I did that in civil case and I did won. Actually judge in the end of the first day advised me to hire a lawyer, I said I cannot afford that and then government pointed one to me. In this case there's obviously no cybersquatting, so what's the excuse not going alone?

DaveChild4• 15 years ago

The risk is that it's not just the domain name at stake. A lost court case can result in an order to pay the opposition's costs. For a large legal team, that can be expensive.

0x122• 15 years ago

The fact that they start with offering you money weakens their case considerably. That said, get yourself a really good lawyer if you want to hold on to it and you think you have a strong enough case, be prepared to pay them a lot of money.

cynest• 15 years ago

What constitutes cybersquatting or having the rights to a domain you purchased? When can someone who feels they could better use the domain sue?

tomelders• 15 years ago

sounds like a job for 4chan.

meiji• 15 years ago

There's some good advice on the reddit thread and some poor. Making a counter offer to the company could be construed as intent to make a buck on the sale and end up muddying the water and causing him problems. Best thing in these cases is to refuse offers.

epo• 15 years ago

If they are trying to muscle you out of something which is not rightfully theirs then level the playing field. Get as much publicity as you can from the media, shame them into backing off or making a decent offer if it is something they really want.

opendomain• 15 years ago

I have never sold a domain. I have given domains away for FREE to Open Source for 12 years, but I have been sued. It does not seem that the Big Corporation has any rights in your case, but they have Big Lawyers, who can sue you into the ground. Be VERY careful

rickdale• 15 years ago

I had a similar experience with Catepillar. They wanted to buy a domain I owned for over 10 years, but was just parked at the time. They offered me $1000 for the domain, I vehemently told them no. They threatened to sue me and we settled before they took action at $5,000. I always thought the domain was worth more, but at least its being used for something now.

larrys2• 15 years ago

He states "They've already tried going through WIPO and lost. Now they are telling me that if I don't accept a ridiculously undervalued offer they are going to file litigation against me. I am a college student and can't afford a lawyer. Can anyone give me advice? What should I do?"

Something is a little fishy about this. It doesn't make sense that he won the UDRP without an attorney but hasn't been able to figure out an attorney that can give him free legal advice on these issues. (Ref: reddit comments) (See http://www.esqwire.com who gives free advice and has probably won the most cases). In order to respond to the UDRP he would have had to do some research and would have turned up the obvious suspects in this industry (Berryhill, Goldberger etc.)

While people have won UDRP's without a response (I've seen it happen) it is pretty rare.

I own a domain that a big corporation wants to sue me into acquiring. Help

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