Many of the clothes we donate to charity end up dumped in landfill

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-08-12/fast-fashion-turning-parts-ghana-into-toxic-landfill/100358702

243 217 5 years ago

abc.net.au

ovi256• 5 years ago

The number of garments produced annually has doubled since 2000 and exceeded 100 billion for the first time in 2014: nearly 14 items of clothing for every person on earth

That may not be as outrageous as it seems. The world population may not have doubled since 2000, but the number of people out of deep poverty may have, so of course they'll buy clothing.

That still doesn't excuse fast fashion, which is so wasteful.

bserge• 5 years ago

That's not outrageous. The only part that might be is that some people have 1-2 sets of clothes for years while others have 50+ every few months.

But tbf at least they're donated en masse.

robjan• 5 years ago

The article pretty much demonstrates that donation doesn't solve the wate problem.

fh973• 5 years ago

Here's an interesting breakdown: https://sharecloth.com/blog/reports/apparel-overproduction

Seems like 30% of production doesn't find a buyer. Still staggering numbers for how many items the average consumer buys.

octopaulus• 5 years ago

Nice drone footage

Causality12• 5 years ago

We’re buying 60 per cent more clothes now than we did 15 years ago.

This is something I find baffling. I have a clothes closet and a chest of drawers. They comfortably hold more than enough for me to go a week or two without doing laundry. When I've worn too many holes in something for me to patch and use as outdoor work wear it goes in the garbage.

That people have such an addiction to buying new clothes they have to throw away or donate intact clothes is utterly perverse.

apercu2• 5 years ago

Retail therapy. More people than ever are disconnected and deeply unhappy and advertising increases the social pressure by telling people they will be happier if they buy "this" or "that".

vidarh3• 5 years ago

In high school at one point when discussing the amount of agricultural space goes to cotton, the teacher asked how many pairs of trousers we each had. I had two. I hated going shopping, and two was enough for me to wear one pair while the others were in the wash.

A bit on the low end, maybe. I have a few more now, but still mostly cycle 2-3.

Several of my class mates claimed to have 40+. I couldn't even imagine that. More than a dozen was the norm.

Totally baffling to me as well. It just feels like added stress.

II2II• 5 years ago

This is true of young children as well. They will notice if someone (another child or adult) cycles through a small set of clothes and comment on it, which can easily be construed as peer pressure.

ghaff• 5 years ago

If you count all the specialized trousers (a lot of which aren't cotton) for various types of activities, the number in my house definitely gets up there even if I discount things like sweatpants and old trousers I use as work pants.

Most of my unnecessary bulk though is logoware from tradeshows and the like which I don't go out of my way to accumulate but still adds up over time as I (normally) do a lot of that type of thing.

nsxwolf• 5 years ago

I don't own very many clothes at all. I don't understand fashion and I find it frustrating to find things that fit and are comfortable, so I keep the rare things I find acceptable around for a long time.

But let's get something straight: I rarely look good.

Causality12• 5 years ago

I just settled on a uniform I was happy with: jeans and a plaid button-down every day. No mismatching and no decisions.

kipchak• 5 years ago

From the article, "A major survey in the UK six years ago found one in three young women considered garments “old” if they had been worn just twice."

I'm like you, but I think there's a pretty big disconnect between us and the average person into fashion.

VLM3• 5 years ago

You can manipulate surveys to generate any requested outrage. Generally you can assume any mention of a survey is propaganda and can be ignored.

Its pretty trivial to imagine how this desired result was produced:

"Would you be angry if you paid a falsely advertised full 'new' price for a garment actually worn by others at least three or more times?"

I know I'd be pretty annoyed if I paid full "new" price for shoes and they arrived and someone else has been wearing the tread off of them for the last six months, LOL.

wodenokoto• 5 years ago

My local charity/recycling bin for clothes/garment explicitly asks for permanently stained or ripped clothes as these can be used as cloth in factories.

I’d be pretty pissed if they just ship it out to the third world and rip off some local business man.

I could have thrown it out locally. No need to ship trash to Africa.

skinkestek• 5 years ago

10 years ago or so I saw plastic wapped bundles of shredded cottonwear in the shelves at a mechanic shop I frequented at the time so some of it clearly has taken that path.

_trampeltier• 5 years ago

We have 25kg boxes of old bathtowls in our factory for cleaning in our factory (heavy industry).

https://www.texaid.ch/en/products-and-services/sorting.html

rascul• 5 years ago

I've found that old clothes can often make excellent rags for when I'm working on vehicles or staining a wood project.

MisterTea• 5 years ago

Rags were and still are a useful item in industrial shops as they are stronger than paper towels, don't fall apart, and handle sharp metal edges and rough surfaces.

In the old days a "ragman" would come by your shop and buy/sell scrap fabric for rag use. When I was a kid in the 80's I distinctly remember a man pulling up in an old truck and my father buying a few boxes of rags for his machine shop, rummaging through a few boxes looking for the ones with the larger sheets and heavier material.

At home I have a bag in my basement full of old clothing I use for whatever. I even wash them if they're not covered in something which could foul the washing machine (e.g. automotive grease/oil/fuel).

paulie4542• 5 years ago

Does social media have a part in this? People have to keep up with “influencer” trends?

Bostonian• 5 years ago

It's not just whites that buy and discard clothes in the western world. Why does the title racialize the problem? A better title would have been "Charity clothes from the West fuel ..."

bejd• 5 years ago

It's the local people's term for the clothing, which is explained in the article:

They call them “obroni wawu” — dead white man’s clothes.

jaclaz• 5 years ago

It is not the title issue, the title comes from the local language expression:

They call them "obroni wawu" — dead white man's clothes.

throw_m2393393• 5 years ago

An editor still chose a controversial title, to "maximize engagement". Whatever these people call it doesn't justify the title of that feature piece.

I think this constant race baiting and divisiveness western media chose to engage into will help no one on the long run, only further resentment and race strife.

apercu2• 5 years ago

Because controversial headlines generate clicks which allow for ads to be served to monetize the traffic. It's just a loop of bullshit. lol.

obtino• 5 years ago

It was chosen because of the name given to the clothes by the locals.

cyberpsybin• 5 years ago

western countries that dump their trash in poor nations are primarily white.

throw_m2393393• 5 years ago

Not all western countries define their societies along racial lines. It's mainly US society who engages in that behavior.

tetromino_• 5 years ago

The article claims to translate the Akan term for these clothes:

In Ghana, they call them “obroni wawu” — dead white man’s clothes.

However, a language blogger [1] suggests that "obroni" can refer to any foreigner from "beyond the horizon" - so presumably the term encompasses dead East Asian man's clothes too.

[1] http://languagehat.com/spruik-kayayei-obroni-wawu/

spodek• 5 years ago

When buying clothes, never consider Goodwill or thrift shops as an outlet when you're done with them. Only consider wearing them, repairing them as necessary, as our ancestors did for the rest of your life.

Buy only clothes that will last forever. Thrift shops receive so much more "donations" (read: garbage while the person throwing their stuff away feels good about dropping their garbage on the less fortunate).

There are needy people who can use help clothing themselves. It does not help them to flood Africa with our waste, which buying cheap clothes contributes to.

Also, watch the documentary The True Cost, available free online: https://thoughtmaybe.com/the-true-cost

aaron695• 5 years ago

This racist stuff has been done before by the Australian's in Korle Lagoon, last time e-waste -

https://africasacountry.com/2019/03/six-myths-about-electron...

Leave the basement for a while and talk to garment factory workers in a developing country, then go down the road and talk to the hookers.

You'll see no difference. The hookers are very practised at seeming happy to keep clients happy.

But perhaps after going home you can think logically and see how teens doing fast fashion are better human beings than hippies eating local foods.

Sure, recycling clothing, which is the case in this story makes my point worse. But that's how it all is. Complex.

Rough guide, if people are doing it, it's the best they have on offer.

wirthjason• 5 years ago

Interesting article.

On discussing buying clothes sight unseen the article mentioned:

    It’s only once a bale has been opened that the quality of the clothing is discovered. If it’s in good condition, profits can tally quickly to as much as $14,000. But if the clothes are torn or stained, or long out of fashion, their importer may as well have put a torch to their money.

I find it interesting that the clothes they want and will pay money for fits the description of what clothes people in developed nations want too. Human nature is quite the same no matter where you go.

Id be curious to know what other factors impact price/demand. Eg. Brands, materials, styles/designs, etc.

thaumasiotes• 5 years ago

I find the general concept of a business model where you buy unknown items and hope they end up covering your costs pretty interesting. I think jade works in a very similar way - the mine produces boulders of unknown quality, and middlemen buy them on the theory that there's probably good jade in some of them.

xadhominemx• 5 years ago

general concept of a business model where you buy unknown items and hope they end up covering your costs

Seed stage VC?

greedo• 5 years ago

It's like the shows where people bid on abandoned storage units.

toast0• 5 years ago

It's delegation or specialization, more or less.

The people in the mine don't have time or space or desire to process the boulders, but they can source them. Etc.

Vertical integration would increase the amount of total margin accruing to any one business, but at the cost of turning a focused business into a sprawling one, and increasing the time and risk between aquiring the materials and selling them.

danparsonson• 5 years ago

Human nature is quite the same no matter where you go.

This shouldn't come as a surprise though - people in developing countries are still people, and although they may have a lower standard of living by some index, that doesn't mean they're desperate or don't care about their appearance.

atlasunshrugged• 5 years ago

Really interesting having just come back from a project in Kenya (and a vacation in Uganda) and one of the really striking things was how many older American/EU clothes were on the street (e.g. sweaters from smaller colleges, shirts referencing mid-sized sporting events for american football). I asked a few of the people I was working with about it and they were quite negative, along with cheap Chinese imports, it has really hurt the domestic textile market to the point where it's basically been wiped out of existence because they can't compete with these imports.

https://www.businessoffashion.com/articles/global-markets/af...

MomoXenosaga• 5 years ago

That is true of the European textile industry as well, although Italy still makes clothes. Made by Chinese that moved there.

foobarian• 5 years ago

I'm disappointed by the shuttering of textile industries in east Europe. It's not just the manufacturing of finished garments; the raw fabrics that used to come out of there were above and beyond what I can find today even in fancy stores. It's like fabric manufacture centralized behind the scenes until everyone has access to the same thin, cost-optimized material and just puts their brand name on it.

Zababa• 5 years ago

Not sure about that. I knew a few people working in textile, and most of if was made in Eastern Europe because the delays were shorter. They were high-end brands though.

dhosek2• 5 years ago

I couldn't help thinking of this:

https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2013/12/11/250200378/we-f...

erfgh3• 5 years ago

Do you mean that if people there only had access to more expensive clothing they would be better off?

cryptonym3• 5 years ago

Fair price locally can generate more work for local people, wealth and redistribution. Overall, more expensive clothing could also help reducing waste. Cheap fast-fashion fails to significantly improve my life (and, from post, negatively impacts lives).

jeromegv3• 5 years ago

Many African countries actually prevent import of second hand clothing. They can produce clothing locally for quite cheap with local labor (that is cheap), but having literally FREE clothing showing up actually decimates your local industry.

That's why you have anti-dumping laws in the western world.

syshum2• 5 years ago

Give a man a fish you feed him for a day, Teach a man to fish you feed him for a lifetime...

What is more humane. Having them depend on the charity and free goods of others, or building their economy to be self sustaining

AngryData2• 5 years ago

Yes, because it builds local industry, and textiles is often a key industry in industrialization. It is "easy" automation, builds local tooling and machining demands, and still requires significant further labor to finish which is cheap in that area.

It certainly isn't the only way, but textile production often one of the first industries to get build in industrialization.

megablast• 5 years ago

I mean, it’s a pretty common media story that these cheap imports are hated by the local textile shops. Weird you claim It like it’s your discovery.

throwaway4220• 5 years ago

Maybe we can look into burning them as fuel as a European country was doing (Sweden?)

beckman466• 5 years ago

Denmark I think (and the company was H&M?)

francisofascii• 5 years ago

Any tips on extending the life of our clothes? I love new t-shirts, but they seem to wear down quickly. Maybe there is a way to wash them and get the sweat smell out without wearing down the shirt. I always use cold water, and only wash/dry when necessary. I heard washer agitation is a problem.

JohnJamesRambo• 5 years ago

Have you tried washing on cold and using cold water detergent?

https://www.maids.com/blog/pros-and-cons-of-washing-your-clo...

mindB• 5 years ago

A few simple things:

- Air-dry clothes when possible instead of the dryer. - Only wash clothes when they're actually dirty. - Using cold water in the washing machine may help as well.

retSava2• 5 years ago

Washing clothes do wear them a lot, so if you can avoid washing clothes too often that'll help. Socks, undergarments, and (most often) t-shirts I don't do this with, but everything else like shirts or pants, do hang them nicely across the back of a chair so that they can air properly. Avoid wrinkles when hanging them.

I'm about to buy new bed sheets etc, and the advice I've read is as follows:

* satin is nice and soft, but wears faster than plain weave (aka percale when above 200 thread count), so don't use satin for bed sheet, but for the duvet cover and potentially the pillowcase. Percale may have a more hotel'y feeling of "crispyness".

* use percale/plain for the bed sheet since that'll wear evenly

* look for extra long cotton fibers since that'll last longer. It's classified in ranges, such as "long staple" or "extra long staple", but often not typed out. Instead some opt for saying "combed cotton" meaning they removed shorter fibers through "combing"

* "egyptian cotton" says nothing, it'll include all cotton made in egypt, which is not by default good. "Supima" cotton is actually a trademarked name for Pima cotton fibers upholding some level of quality that's supposedly good.

Four types of cotton: Gossypium [Hirsutum, Barbadense, Arboreum, Herbaceum]. Most grown is Hirsutum. Barbadense == Pima, and certified Pima at some minimum fiber length etc == Supima trademark.

Many hotels don't own their sheets, they rent as a service including washing. I've read many use a small amount of synthetic fibers in the mix.

Ideal thread count range is about 300-600, lower doesn't necessarily give the percale feel, and higher is just marketing blaha which doesn't really notice either.

He. Turned out to be quite the post. Let's stop there. Guess you can tell I'm nerding down on the topic.

Scoundreller5• 5 years ago

Unless my clothes as super dirty, I’ll wash in cold water with a fraction of the recommended amount of detergent.

And ++ to air drying. Hot temperatures + tumbling creates a ton of wear.

mbernstein• 5 years ago

While the price my be a bit high (watch for their sales for styles being discontinued, especially around Black Friday) - but I got really tired of replacing sheets that fell apart and just bought Frette ones as as splurge and got a second set awhile ago. I've gotten really tired of buying cheap throwaway things and have instead invested in some of the nicer, higher quality brands and so far I haven't been disappointed.

lazerpants• 5 years ago

Look for Oeko-Tex certifications too. My wife is in textiles and is impressed with their processes. A lot of "organic" sheets are not carefully sourced and are not actually organic.

int_19h4• 5 years ago

While we're at it, linen is more sturdy than cotton, and may actually be more comfortable in hot climates.

NikolaNovak• 5 years ago

How quickly do they seem to wear down?

I'm wearing a 15yo t-shirt as I speak and it's in great shape. I have several in closet that are 20yo. I don't take any particular care other than always washing on cold and using low temperature drier.

My polo shirts depending on material do seem to wear down, on the collar in particular. They seem to be from different material than most t shirts.

Foobar8568• 5 years ago

All my uniqlo t-shirts are falling aparts within 3 years. Other brands aren't much better..

sumtechguy2• 5 years ago

That could be a bit of survivorship bias too. I too have cloths that are 20+ years old. But other stuff from the same era is long gone too.

For me it is one of two things the stitching just comes undone and ends up tearing the fabric. Or the fabric is just threadbare.

I do have to agree though with the quality. It has really dipped in the past 10 or so years I would say. Especially in things I used to consider durable, like jeans. I recently bought a shirt about 3 years ago, elbows blown out stitching coming undone. Not low end cost stuff either...

mschuster913• 5 years ago

Any tips on extending the life of our clothes? I love new t-shirts, but they seem to wear down quickly.

Buy better quality. I know it's hard since most clothing is "fast fashion" crap that is designed to be worn three, four, five times tops. Thin material, thin yarn, it simply breaks down physically.

woodwireandfood• 5 years ago

Silly one that I discovered: my t-shirts all developed a hole in the center of the stomach area first, before any other damage. It appears to be from rubbing between the seat belt of the car and the zipper/button area of my pants. So I've started pulling the shirt out of that spot after I put the seat belt on. Too early to tell how much of a difference it's made.

kaybe2• 5 years ago

I have the same issue and I only ride cars very very rarely. I'm still wondering about the reason.

credit_guy• 5 years ago

A comparison with the CO2 emissions, to get a sense of the scale of the problem.

  >> Globally, that’s the equivalent of one garbage truck of textiles being burned or going into landfill every second.

Globally we put a bit more than 1000 tons of CO2 in the air every second.

An average garbage truck has a volume of about 20 cubic meters. Textiles are pretty fluffy, their density is about one tenth the density of water [1], so we have about 2 tons of textiles in a garbage truck. If all gets burned, you end up with about 6 tons of CO2 in the atmosphere.

[1] https://www.epa.gov/sites/default/files/2016-03/documents/co...

dpeck2• 5 years ago

Sample size of just me, but I’ve done some volunteering before and the amount of clothes that people donate is huge. But the chance of people in need actually wearing what was donated was small.

The guidance that my group was given was essentially, if it couldn’t be worn to a job interview or a religious service (think men’s chinos and a button up shirt, women nicer pants/skirt and good quality blouse), then throw it away. So I am not surprised.

valarauko• 5 years ago

I think the disconnect here is between the expectations of the donors of who the end users are, and their needs. I would have expected that donated clothes would end up with the homeless, who at least here (NYC) have a need for layers. I would not have expected donated clothes to have resale value, and to merely be functional. The idea that donated clothes should be job interview quality is new to me, and I guess probably none of my current wardrobe would qualify.

el-salvador• 5 years ago

In Central America there's quite an industry here that resells donated clothes, used clothes and lightly used return products from stores from the U.S.

Clothes are sorted by brand/quality/size and some of them are job interview or even tv interview quality (after some minor size adjustments).

Earlier this year a group of our senators made a photo op while buying and wearing clothes from those stores. This was obviously a PR move, but quite popular with some voters.

dpeck2• 5 years ago

Right.

I think you’re correct in very different market expectations. People effected by homelessness would be more interested in layers for protection from weather and I guess wouldn’t care much for how something looks so long as it’s clean/functional.

But the vast majority of people shopping at thrift stores or accepting donations and similar aren’t homeless, they’re just people without much money. They probably have plenty of old tshirts and jeans but might not easily have the money for a pair of khakis and an oxford shirt to wear to an interview for a new job as a retail clerk or cashier, or maybe receptionist at a business.

I would assume that the latter are, thankfully, more common than the former. In most cities.

leroman• 5 years ago

Planned Obsolescence & Perceived Obsolescence

I can't escape the conclusion that we are the paperclip maximizers, where paperclips = $, all else is expendable..

thrower123• 5 years ago

When I worked in a mill, we bought pallet-sized bundles of cotton rags. Most of them appeared to be ripped up flannel shirts.

jnwatson2• 5 years ago

It is articles like this that remind me that we so desperately need a carbon tax.

Making a t-shirt in China, shipping to the US, wearing it for a few times, and then shipping it to Africa should not be economically viable.

snarf21• 5 years ago

I agree that we need a carbon tax. However, mega ships are super carbon efficient. You driving to the store to buy the shirt burned added more carbon than the amount of carbon to ship it from Asia. Our personal vehicles are not efficient. Large, relatively slow moving transport (train, container ship) is. We are a major contributor to all the consumption driven pollution in Asia.

mc322• 5 years ago

On the other hand commercial shipping produces more hydrocarbon pollution than personal transport. Apparently the pollution from one large container ship produces as much pollution as 50MM cars!

nitrogen• 5 years ago

[commerce] should not be economically viable.

Declaring that the cornerstones of modern, industrialized life should not be economically viable is basically calling "game over" and giving up. We can do much better. Climate defeatism should be replaced by climate entrepreneurism. If you don't like something, make something better!

jakeinspace• 5 years ago

It's only possible to compete as a "climate entrepreneur" if negative externality costs are imposed on existing business (carbon tax or cap & trade).

jnwatson2• 5 years ago

It isn't that all convenience should be banned. All these items should include the actual environmental cost to produce the product.

We've been selling timber from somebody else's forest for too long. It is time to charge for the trees.

whywhywhywhy2• 5 years ago

Or you know, just don't make it in the first place.

If all low quality fast fashion were $20 instead of $7 across the board people would still gorge themselves on it.

They're not buying stuff for the need to have clothes, they're buying things for the experiences of buying it and the novelty of something new.

TremendousJudge• 5 years ago

Supply and demand: if it was more expensive, less people would buy it. The reason fast fashion is popular is because it's cheap as hell, which can give a lot of people "buying things for the experiences of buying it and the novelty of something new". If clothing was as expensive as some decades ago, this experience would only be affordable to rich people as was in the past

themaninthedark• 5 years ago

And who is going to police this? All the trinkets and gadgets that we produce all fall in the same category.

Nest, Echo, Homepod...

Just get up and turn off the damn lights yourself.

Drones

How many people bought one or two, flew it around for a while and crashed it. Very few are making videos or doing something interesting with them.

Starbucks

Do we really need separate stores, trucks shipping product all over for someone to have the convenience of a cup of coffee?

TV/Netflix

If we want to talk about the utility of something, this one is amazing. How much money, time and energy has been spent so that someone can watch a 30 minute show on demand. And we have to keep spending money and energy because the novelty of the old stuff has worn off.

fighterpilot• 5 years ago

Fast fashion is probably one of the most price elastic goods in existence. And your suggestion to "just don't make it" is patently silly. Are you advocating for a ban on clothes or are you advocating for all manufacturers to willingly stop production and avoid profits? Either of these is detached from reality. A carbon tax is what's needed.

ctdonath5• 5 years ago

Yet here we are, having achieved what so many claim to want yet fret when achieved: capitalism has increased productivity so high, and costs so low, that we can literally "clothe Africa for free". Why the imperative to take from the productive, when they will freely give generously from their surplus?

pdm55• 5 years ago

I can longer fit into my old clothes - the problem of the expanding waistline - which is why I take them to the charity store. We Aussies truly are a consuming society: too much food, too many clothes, too many electronic gadgets, too easy a lifestyle.

gambiting2• 5 years ago

We run a processing company for second hand clothing in Poland(as well as our own shops), and while I can't comment on exports to Africa or elsewhere, that's definitely not the case for us. Primarly because we try to make use of absolutely everything we import, but also because few years back certain legislations were introduced that basically prevent companies like ours from producing large amounts of waste, with draconian fines if we do.

So basically we buy clothes from say.....charities in UK or elsewhere, import them to Poland, sort them in our own warehouse, price everything individually, sell in our own shops. Then goods which are damaged/stained/faulty are cut into pieces and sold as cleaning rags(also done in house). Then things which literally cannot be cut into rags are sold further to a company that shreds them for textile filling for car seats etc. And finally, if you have something so utterly destroyed that it's literally useless - say a pair of shoes that have been through mud and disentegrated(why would anyone "donate" these is a different matter), those have to go to the landfill. But I'd estimate that's less than 1% of our entire output.

dylan6044• 5 years ago

why would anyone "donate" these is a different matter

This is a very big question though. WTF are people thinking? There's a difference between no longer wearing something because it no longer fits but is otherwise in good condition to not being used because it's completely ruined. What mental block exists in the original owner from just throwing away the ruined items vs just holding onto them to donate so someone else can throw it away? Do they actually feel like some good is coming from donating worthless items? I honestly just do understand this.

gambiting2• 5 years ago

>Do they actually feel like some good is coming from donating worthless items?

Unfortunately, I believe people are encouraged to donate everything no matter the state, because importers like us pay per kg, so a charity that we buy from will get money for those dirty destroyed shoes, even though they do actually go to landfill on the other end. In a way charities don't really care what's in the bags, the heavier the better. That's why recently it's actually a bit more popular to import from Cash4Clothes charities, as they at the very least have a cursory glance through the goods, so you rarely get actual pure rubbish in there. It has other downsides though.

topkai22• 5 years ago

I’m sure I’m guilty of doing this, but it’s mostly mental laziness. When I’m sorting stuff for donation I’m mostly thinking “keep” versus “donate.” The third category of “throw away” is there and their is a pile, but it’s not one of the two defaults, so unless I notice the article is quite bad I don’t toss it there.

This has also meant I’ve kept clothes that really should have been tossed as well…

treeman79• 5 years ago

Clean the garage. Trash bin is full. The bias toward good will or trash bin can be come compromised.

KillahBhyte2• 5 years ago

If something ever seems like a popular but illogical set of actions by people, the best way to understand it is to look at the incentives that drive it (thanks Freakonomics).

In this case I'd wager two things. As a kid I had family who worked a receiving center for Goodwill. Fairly affluent part of our town near the beach. I remember two distinct things being odd to me then. The items people would bring would sometimes be questionable as to how they'd be useful to the needy, either from wear or function. The other part was most people wanted and received a receipt for their donation. Cue Mitch Hedburg receipt for a donut routine. I was told then when I asked this was an approximate value of their donation and it was used for tax purposes. So one is probably tax write offs.

Throwing things away costs money. When my wife and I moved recently we cleaned house. A second trash can was around 150 a year with limited volume. Trips to the landfill are charged by weight differential. Charity donation is free with the added bonus of someone coming to pick it up if the donation is big enough. We both commented at the time that if we were a little less moral we could easily pack the rubbish in with the donations and save a ton of money. So second is probably convenience with some working the system added in.

whimsicalism• 5 years ago

I mean, it seems like you're directing a lot of ire at what the above commentator says is an extremely small (less than 1%) share of donated items.

Clearly having this sort of "mental block" is not an extremely common thing.

mumblemumble4• 5 years ago

To add to what others have said, I think that a lot of people have this idea that "trash = bad" so deeply internalized that they're heavily biased toward only putting things in the bin when there can be no doubt whatsoever that it is garbage.

You also see this when people put greasy paper take-out food containers in the recycling. No, it's not recyclable, and worse, it might further contaminate other things and render them non-recyclable as well. But, when I ask houseguests not to put them in our recycle bin, they seem to be honestly startled by the request. Oftentimes they assume it's because I'm a lax recycler and would rather throw things away than sully my pristine recycle bin with uneaten curry.

Swizec• 5 years ago

I often donate my running shoes to the street.

After 700km they're no longer good for running. But they're perfectly fine for walking around and as general footwear. Better shape than a lot of what I've seen folks living in the streets wear.

Someone always takes them within 3 hours of putting them out.

JamesSwift3• 5 years ago

For myself, I tend to be in the "let the professionals decide what to scrap" camp.

If the alternative is that I throw it in the garbage, what is the net loss by letting the workers who do this all day long decide what should be thrown in the garbage? As the OP says, they have various uses for items, so it makes sense to let them handle the sorting through of junk to decide what is ultimately landfill material. Sure, I could educate myself better about the details on what happens once I hand it over, so that time isn't being wasted, but I am, of course, lazy.

pfranz• 5 years ago

I've seen videos about recycling where they call it "wishcycling" and point to things like lamps and umbrellas tossed in their city's curbside recycling bin. I think the wish is that someone will find a use for it and it will avoid a landfill. In actuality, it can be a waste of someone else's time and money.

netrus• 5 years ago

Clothes only get worse while being used (or cleaned). Thus, all clothes I donate are basically in a condition that I considered "fit-to-wear" just one usage ago. Is it a stretch that someone would be happy to get for free what worked for me just until now?

That being said, after reading articles like this some years ago, I started to throw everything that is actually damaged to the trash (even if it is only a small hole). Maybe I am overdoing it - but I totally understand the mindset of "worst case they will have to trash it in my place".

mywittyname• 5 years ago

This is a very big question though. WTF are people thinking?

From what I've seen, there's a segment of people who feel the urge to donate, but have this elitist attitude towards less fortunate people who need assistance that can be summed up as, "they should take what they are given with a smile." Like, they have this notion that accepting any charity should involve some degree of humiliation. Almost like they feel like a person must not really be in need if they aren't willing to, for example, accept expired food.

It's a really fucking toxic attitude and I suspect being on the receiving end of such behavior can be a cause for a lot of people who need assistance to not seek it out.

My mother works at a women's shelter and this comes up when it comes to donations around Christmas time. People claim they want to donate, but when it comes to donating things women actually need, they will sometimes get all huffy. The women who come to the shelter came there with basically nothing and potential donators sometimes raise a stink about giving women nice toiletry baskets, as though they are entitled to no "luxuries" by virtue of being poor, homeless, and without a support system.

ryanmcbride• 5 years ago

I assume a fair amount of donations haven't been sorted through at all by the donators. They likely just already have large bags of clothes that no one wears anymore for any given reason and don't take the time to determine what is and isn't donatable. I know that's what's been done by my family when a family member dies. There's maybe a couple separate pieces that get saved for sentimental reasons (I have my grandpa's wedding tuxedo jacket for example) but everything else pretty much gets dumped into bags and sent off.

elric2• 5 years ago

This is highly location-dependent, but in some areas, charities will come to collect used items (say a big bag of clothes) free of charge, whereas throwing that same bag out in the trash is costly. So sneaking in a couple of shitty items basically saves money.

Trash collection is -- no pun intended -- a mess.

tablespoon3• 5 years ago

This is a very big question though. WTF are people thinking? There's a difference between no longer wearing something because it no longer fits but is otherwise in good condition to not being used because it's completely ruined. What mental block exists in the original owner from just throwing away the ruined items vs just holding onto them to donate so someone else can throw it away? Do they actually feel like some good is coming from donating worthless items? I honestly just do understand this.

It's still "good," just not good enough for them, and they don't want the item "to go to waste." Basically, they can imagine someone using it, but it's an unrealistic fantasy.

I think that also applies to freebie crap no one wants.

scruple• 5 years ago

This is a very big question though. WTF are people thinking?

I obviously can't speak for elsewhere but donated goods are a tax deduction in the USA. Now, I do not donate junk but I also do 1-2 donation runs a year. The person who accepts my donations always asks, "Do you want a donation form?" without ever inspecting any of the items I am handing them for viability. Certain items are rejected because they simply cannot accept them but I have never once in my decades of donating seen someone inspect the items to ensure they are in "good" quality. I've always assumed that people are gaming their tax write-offs by donating their junk.

kube-system2• 5 years ago

It's cognitive bias. It might be junk, but it's their junk.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mere_ownership_effect

mulmen3• 5 years ago

WTF are people thinking?

I can understand people just dumping everything in the bin because sorting it properly is an overwhelming task.

I recently signed up for Ridwell [1] and pay them to properly dispose of (sort and redistribute) all kinds of waste I could get rid of for “free”. The problem is figuring out where to take everything and then actually getting there in my car. As far as I can tell there isn’t one single drop off point in my area for plastic film, food containers, clothing, electronics, and styrofoam. At some point just putting everything in a bin for $10.00/mo makes a lot more sense.

Muddy boots are an extreme but I have things like ripped shirts that might be repairable or useful as rags or some thing I just can’t think of.

[1] https://www.ridwell.com/

VLM3• 5 years ago

I suspect on a large scale over time, post death donations exceed annual donations by quite a bit.

So, old uncle X dies, state fund stops paying his nursing home room in 3 days, after everything of value or mentioned in the will is picked over or set aside, its all gotta go somewhere and somewhere is three relatives with trailers driving to goodwill.

There's simply not the time to determine his 1970s suit is currently resellable as retro kool, his 1970s neckties are 50:50 resellable, and his 1970s fancy dress shoes are simply trash. You've got less than two seconds per item, times up, now help load up the bookcase its all gotta go and the sooner we're done the quicker this depressing job is over. Toward the end, people are like "box of old plates? I don't have time for this toss it on the Goodwill trailer".

Think of his neckties from the 70s, someone doing a 70s school play or costume party or maybe some kind of art exhibit might pay good money for perfect condition, and badly stained goes in the trash, now what about the one in between that's not perfect but better than most people's daily wear? People LARP on the internet about being experts on everything especially apparently clothing resales but we're kinda in a hurry here and my MiL is not an expert on that topic so she's seemingly randomly tossing stuff on piles for trash or recycle or goodwill, I mean she's trying but we as a culture do not license "cleaning up the estate of deceased relatives" so she's just gonna toss stuff semi-randomly.

WRT to hoarding, consider that red necktie thats a little worn and has a tiny stain on it. He wouldn't throw that tie out, because he was married to my long deceased aunt while wearing it 60 years ago, it meant a lot to him ... but not to anyone else and now he's gone. Or that hideous endtable, I mean, sure a 1960s collector might want it if its in perfect condition, but he never threw it out because it worked perfectly well even if nobody post 1980 would consider buying such a thing.

Oddly enough things are simpler with terminal patients. He handed his bible to his sister when he said goodbye so when its time for estate cleanup nobody has to wonder where the family bible is, its been at his sisters house a month ago. I suppose a surprise death might be more work. But, the cancer finally got him so just ship everything in the room that isn't food, to goodwill.

tcfunk• 5 years ago

I'd be curious to know if it is helpful or hurtful for me (as someone who can afford to buy "new" cloths) to shop at secondhand clothing stores.

Am I preventing clothes from getting shipped out to Africa, or preventing someone of less means from finding something to wear? Or a bit of both?

Scoundreller5• 5 years ago

Usually the way those shops work around me is they’ll drop the prices every week until it’s sold. Somebody will buy it at some price.

jeromegv3• 5 years ago

Buy it, a lot of those stores receive more donation than they can sell. So by buying it, you help turnover the inventory and allow them to put more on the shelves. I doubt that results in higher prices, supply >>>>> demand

clomond• 5 years ago

Yes there is a waste prevention piece, but the key thing on a personal level is preventing the purchase of the new item of clothing for some purpose that you were looking for.

The moment the money exchanges hands for the new product, that is additonal commerce which functionally “locks in” the emissions and the associated incentive structure. It’s less about buying used, as it is about reducing the buying of new.

bdcravens• 5 years ago

In the US, a substantial number of clothing donation bins are actually owned by for-profit companies.

marpayne• 5 years ago

There's a lot of thrift markets selling these kinds of clothes for a very low price. These markets are scattered worldwide, mainly in third-world countries, making many people afford branded clothes.

joshuaheard• 5 years ago

I'm surprised they just dump them into a land fill. It seems to me they could be used in something else. The clothing could be shredded and used in blanket filling or house insulation.

diplodocusaur2• 5 years ago

especially since synthetic fibers will probably end as microplastics. I have no source for this, just my opinion.

diplodocusaur2• 5 years ago

It would be interesting to have a map of trash flow.

Out of sight, out of mind.

SevenSigs• 5 years ago

In a capitalist world, If I had a clothes store, I would do the same... to reduce the supply.

davidjytang• 5 years ago

Off topic. I thought it was a nice website with great mixing of video and text.

mistrial9• 5 years ago

As a small business, I personally partnered with a nomad trader and a local-to-me Catholic charity, to ship clothing from the US West Coast to a popular port city in Chile. The emphasis was on getting the clothing to real people who need it; jean clothing preferred. I got plenty of clothes (six tons over ten months perhaps) and did an OK job on the paperwork, saving money at all stages. The clothing was shipped succesfully.

The trader in Chile was hurt financially by black market operators who used similar clothing operations as a front to launder money, and those operations sank the prices of the actual clothing to near zero. The CEO of the Catholic charity was later removed and is now into really different subjects I won't mention now and I do not support. I put a lot of time into this effort for many solid reasons, not for profit, and made almost no money by US standards, and it ended. Meanwhile the housing costs in my area have increased dramatically, and I am impacted by that. YMMV

hellbannedguy• 5 years ago

Many of the charities that collect clothing are 501c3 scams.

I sometimes wonder what charities are not scams?

The clothes at Goodwill are not washed.

(I used to recommend donating to Goodwill, but their prices are getting to high. Goodwill provides 1 year of employment to felons, which is great. They pay a unlivable salary though. The only people making a living salary are managers, and regional managers, and of course key members of the nonprofit. My Goodwill, in Marin County, had three managers in a row quietly fired fired theft.)

jjk166• 5 years ago

And how many clothes that we don’t donate to charity avoid the landfill?

Unless you’re going out of your way to buy more clothes specifically so you can give more to charity, the giving to charity part is not the problem.

SeasonalEnnui• 5 years ago

After wearing my t-shirts to the point of being thread-bare or irrevocably stained (3-10 years), they become excellent lint-free rags for the electronics workbench & garage/workshop.

The front and back panels of the t-shirt can be easily segmented into the desired size of rag (credit card sized for electronics, hand sized for the garage).

Sammi• 5 years ago

They're also excellent for window cleaning. Just wash the window with a wet old clothing rag and dry it with a dry one afterwards. It works so well. Much faster than any cleaning products and it leaves no residue.

abstractbarista• 5 years ago

They are also perfect for gun cleaning! Cut small squares for cleaning barrels, and keep bigger pieces for wiping down parts. I do this with my old nasty shirts.

maire• 5 years ago

Check out "Secondhand: Travels in the New Global Garage Sale" by Adam Minter.

It turns out that what happens to your clothes depends on the condition when you donate and if they have synthetic fibers. There is still a large second hand market for natural fibers.

https://www.npr.org/2019/12/04/784702588/the-best-thing-you-...

axus• 5 years ago

Isn't putting petroleum-based products into a landfill a type of carbon capture?

deft• 5 years ago

These kinds of donation initiatives drive me mad. If they didn't exist, I'd throw these clothes my partner insists on donating in the trash. Why would I send garbage to someone else as a donation??! The fact the donation receivers just ship them to a foreign landill proves my point. I'll keep it local :).

pstuart• 5 years ago

There's an impressive system called Looop that takes old clothes and "decompiles" them to create new fabric: https://www2.hm.com/en_gb/life/culture/inside-h-m/meet-the-m...

ykevinator3• 5 years ago

And by commutative many of the clothes we by at target end up in a landfill

Many of the clothes we donate to charity end up dumped in landfill

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