A new chapter – full-time working from a van in a forest

by ghuntley • 5 years ago

328 235 5 years ago

I did a similar thing (full time van living while doing full time software development, but in the US) for ~ 6 months until the pandemic cut the trip short. Depending on the build of your van, you will have differing levels of reliance on public resources. Unfortunately, our van was built around urban living - showering in gyms, working in coffee shops, etc.

In normal life, I think that's a much _simpler_ approach than being out in the forest. We were never far from a water source or a hardware store in case of emergency, which came in handy more than once.

I hope it continues to work out for them!

harlanji• 5 years ago

I’m on day 1,002 in my Civic, the last stop before a tent. With showers and the library and people not afraid of each other it was pretty good and I questioned why I paid $1,850/mo for 350sqft for so long. I camp 10 blocks from there. Hope it’s normal soon. Going on a year without a shower. Nobody I know will put me in a hotel and decreasing few will talk to me. I need to get my shit together, apparently. I was waking up at 3am to sponge bath myself when I worked retail—was not enough. “At least we’re not in Africa” -a diverse boss from my Engineering days.

forgotmypw176• 5 years ago

Hang in there. You're a good person, and you are enough just the way you are. You don't need anyone's approval to exist.

If you are in East Coast U.S., I may be able to find you a shower.

m_kos• 5 years ago

Do you know how much a monthly gym membership near you costs? If money is an issue, I could chip in via paypal or venmo. (Just a grad student with kids here, so don't expect too much, please.)

mym19903• 5 years ago

Second this and also willing to chip in. I'm not sure where you are but I know in the US it is fairly common for gas station truck stops to have shower facilities as well!

SommaRaikkonen• 5 years ago

Glad to hear it's working out for you on the work front Geoffrey. Do you have any concerns about long-term plans living in the van?

Also, any cool stories to tell about power maintenance? I see you have giant solar panels but wonder if they're enough for your daily workload - do you have enough power at night?

Sorry if you've answered these questions before, I'm new to your blog!

mkingston8• 5 years ago

Not OP. The van in the article appears to have ~800W of solar on the roof. Depending on preference, lighting requirements can be ~5-30W, laptop requirements ~20-150W. If heating and cooking needs are met with natural gas (the most common solution- and I can see a gas pizza oven in the article). Making some assumptions:

* the solar panels deliver average ~200W for 8hrs per day, 1.6kWh total

* OP has average 50W power draw while working, 8hrs per day, 0.4kWh total

* OP has lighting requirements of ~20W, 4hrs per day, ~0.1kWh

I guess he's probably fairly comfortably net positive for electrical power. In my experience the solar panel estimate is reasonably conservative, although I've experienced some extended periods of very bad weather where my panels produce less than 5% of their rated maximum (in the UK- not Aus!).

codesternews2• 5 years ago

Why do you love vanlife? Why you are living like this? Sorry just curious want to know your point of view

latchkey2• 5 years ago

My primary home is a campervan (Promaster 2500). I travel to places and then I rent a house or apartment for a few months to bring some stability to my life. Then I move onto the next place. It is lovely. I can't think of any other way to live.

mym19903• 5 years ago

How long have you been doing this?

latchkey2• 5 years ago

About 6 months now. I got stuck in the US, so I decided to do something different instead of just couch surfing at friends houses. Bought a campervan that was already mostly fitted out, did the rest myself.

Prior to that, I spent 2 years on a motorbike living out of hotels and rentals all over Vietnam, Cambodia and Laos.

I am lucky to have a job and a life that was already remote.

monkmartinez• 5 years ago

Great story! My wife and I recently sold our home and are now renting. My stress level has decreased 10 fold in the last 4 months since selling. There is always that little nag in the back of your mind regarding a house: "I would love to go on that trip and we have the money, but our <A/C || roof || plumbing || appliance> is going to need to be replaced in the next year or so."

I don't think I am cut out for a permanent #vanlife, but it sure sounds like a cool arrangement if you have the proclivity to handle all that it entails. My wife and I plan to do slow travel when our kids go to college. Move every year or so with a light load while learning different cultures.

Would love to hear more about the financial aspects of #vanlife... from my perspective, I reckon you save a bundle.... but I could be wrong.

EdwardDiego• 5 years ago

How is your security of tenure renting where you are?

Sadly in my country, our rental laws are still firmly stuck in the "quarter-acre" dream of the 1960s, where renting was only something you did at university before shortly buying your first house with a tiny deposit and a Government backed home loan.

These days as house prices rocket, only now are changes being made to tenancy laws to give tenants some more security. Back in my renting days, I had to move 4 times in 5 years because the landlord wanted to move in, or they sold it, or the farm my cottage was on had been sold and the new owner wanted it for workers, etc.

So here, at least, owning removed a significant amount of stress for me - I know I'll still be living here in 5 years, I haven't been able to say that until now.

tomerbd• 5 years ago

What about a nag in the head that something would happen to the bank account that has the money that you got from selling the house or by money deprecation with relation to housing prices (or stock market crash if in stocks)?

johanvts• 5 years ago

Buy some real estate that someone else lives in, maybe through a REIT.

jdthedisciple• 5 years ago

"...but our <A/C || roof || plumbing || appliance> is going to need to be replaced in the next year or so"

How does this prevent you from going on a trip? I don't understand. Mind to elaborate a bit?

speedgoose• 5 years ago

Many people don't have enough money to replace their roof and go on a trip in the same period.

danielheath• 5 years ago

If your plumbing or roof fails and you aren't there to deal with it immediately, the bill is pretty steep (once the weather / water gets inside the house).

mrweasel4• 5 years ago

Replacing our roof last year was 40.000USD, (250.000DKK). While we able to pay it off faster, it’s basically a 14 year bank loan. Not everyone, depending on country and salary, is able to get those loans at reasonable rate, but you’ll still need a new roof. That means saving like crazy and holidays get expensive pretty fast, and isn’t something you REALLY need, making it a place to save money.

Try saving to much on home maintenance and you risk damaging your property, lowering it’s value in the future. Owning a home is expensive, it’s still a sound finacial choice, depending on country and so on, but it has a running cost.

deanclatworthy3• 5 years ago

You have similar anxieties with renting. "When will my landlord give me my 6 month notice?" Depending on your location and who you are finding an apartment for rent can't be easier. e.g. in Finland most landlords won't pick foreign names.

pjc502• 5 years ago

Six month notice? Try one month notice.

have_faith• 5 years ago

6 month notice

What alternative timeline is this?

WildGreenLeave3• 5 years ago

I am buying a place in the capital city of my country for this exact same reason. I want to travel and be free to do what I want, yet I also need a place to live in for the months that I'm not away traveling. I could rent something but that would be the same price as my mortgage and it will be lost money anyway. Instead I picked buying so only a small part (interest) is lost, but everything else goes back into my own pocket. So even if I'm only spending 50% in my own place it is still cheaper then renting.

However, you are talking about things that I don't really have to worry about since it is an apartment. So maybe there is a slight difference here.

ant6n2• 5 years ago

What about using it as a vacation rebtal while away. There are probably companies that take care of the details. Personal stuff could be locked away somewhere.

heipei• 5 years ago

It's important to realise that you can't compare your rent with your mortgage payments without factoring in a lot of things. The rent you pay includes things like taxes, insurances, upkeep, depreciation, risk and opportunity costs that your landlord has to pay while still coming out ahead. And he has to deal with all the administrative things too. So if you're a homeowner yourself, ask whether you're still coming out ahead carrying those costs yourself, plus the risk that something around your house breaks, plus the risk that your home might lose value for another reason, plus the opportunity cost of your down-payment not being invested otherwise (e.g. stocks). At the end of the day, it depends on the location and how far apart the purchase prices have diverged from rents. With the current economic situation and low interest rates, house prices where I live have mostly broken away from rents so significantly that it doesn't make any sense to buy from a financial standpoint.

gambiting4• 5 years ago

>There is always that little nag in the back of your mind regarding a house

Do you not have any nagging thoughts about renting though? Because I went the exact opposite way. I was always super stressed when renting, because I knew that at the end of our contract the landlord could tell us to leave. Especially when we were on a monthly rolling contract, my stress about this was probably 10/10.

Now that we bought a house I sleep well - if anything goes wrong I can probably repair it myself, in case of appliances I can buy second hand ones cheap or again, try the repair myself ...and for things I can't repair myself(ie - boiler) I have insurance for. It's about 10x less stressful than renting to me.

mattr47• 5 years ago

You have insurance for major appliances ? Or do you mean a warranty?

Daho0n3• 5 years ago

because I knew that at the end of our contract the landlord could tell us to leave.

Luckily this can't happen in most of the EU. Even if the contract say X years you can't throw people out after the contract runs out unless you are moving in yourself.

loloquwowndueo2• 5 years ago

The landlord has to make the same repairs you would, and still turn a profit, at a margin likely higher than a mortgage’s interest rate. So that nice saved-up vacation money would still go away eventually.

For me the nag was about all the thing we wanted to do to the house but couldn’t because it was a rental.

To each their own I guess - there are fair points for both approaches. Do what makes sense financially and keeps you happy / less worried :)

Supermancho• 5 years ago

The landlord has to make the same repairs you would, and still turn a profit, at a margin likely higher than a mortgage’s interest rate

That's unlikely, if the rented space is part of a complex. The complex repairs are amortized across all the units. The issue is about cost per square footage. Given you don't have to pay for the same square footage (not the full lot, only the space your unit and parking occupies) it's almost always lower.

pacman23• 5 years ago

Yes, but the landlord does this repairs pre-tax and all the repairs are deductible.

rcpt• 5 years ago

They don't have to turn a profit from the rent. Many operate at a loss in a bet to build wealth from equity gains.

Daho0n3• 5 years ago

The landlord has to make the same repairs you would, and still turn a profit, at a margin likely higher than a mortgage’s interest rate.

Many (most?) rentals in my area (in Scandinavia) is not for-profit and get cheap loans to build. Just like the utility company (electricity, heat, water, fiber). You can get permission to improve and if it is good for the environment you get some of the money back if you move out.

atleta4• 5 years ago

But you get to keep the money you'd spend on buying the house/apartment which you can then invest into other assets. Also, who repairs what is down to agreement. I've always been renting (it's not that uncommon here, in Europe, though it is less common here, in Hungary) and the agreement was always that all repairs that are due to proper usage is to be paid for by the landlord but any damage is to be paid for by the renter (me).

Now the little repairs that were due during these years (in 3 different downtown apartments) always went like this: I tell the landlord that something needs to be fixed, they tell me to call someone (or sometimes they send someone they know) and I pay for it, get the invoice which we then deduct from the rent next month. No extra profit made on the repairs. You can say that it is priced in the rent, but then that's the rent (which will be subject to competition). Yes, obviously they are looking to make some meaningful return on their investment. Whether that's higher than the mortgage's interest rate depends a lot on when they actually bought the property. But in an equilibrium the two should be pretty close because if they start to diverge too much people will either stop renting or they will stop buying apartments (and do the other).

astrostl2• 5 years ago

Landlord here. This implies perfect pricing, but it's still moist robots like me making very imperfect decisions.

brailsafe• 5 years ago

I've come to believe that really what should determine your choice to buy a house or condo comes down just to circumstance or the leaning of your preference. If your tendency is to want a comfortable space that you can make your own, then make that your goal. Likewise if you have innumerable familial or professional long term constraints. If however most of your interests have nothing to do with being stationary and modifying or maintaining your home, then that pretty well points you in a different direction. Likewise again if you have no hard long-term constraints. You can look to other things like financial capability or potential investment returns, but I think the other considerations are more critical.

tkiolp42• 5 years ago

Out of curiosity: would you be still renting when you are over 70? In my mind the kind of people who never mind owning a house is the kind of people who know they will inherit their parents’ house.

astrostl2• 5 years ago

I currently own and 100% expect to rent something like a low-maintenance condo in a community when older.

tarsinge• 5 years ago

I have quite the opposite experience: my stress level decreased since I own. I guess it depends on your financial comfort. Doing the vanlife is great but what happens if you lose your job and your van needs maintenance? Maybe add a downturn on the stock market. Suddenly you have nothing. It’s a very personal choice, for me traveling freely while being assured I have a place back home (albeit very minimalist) was needed.

cko2• 5 years ago

I've been a landlord for ten years and I've always been a renter.

For people like me with no desire to have kids and minimal ownership of furniture and toys, renting is nice.

I've always wanted to be a renter for life, but recently I also have been thinking about buying some land in upstate New York or in the outskirts of some European city and building a livable structure like an A frame or a geodesic dome.

I do think urban housing prices are insane. My rental units were in the suburbs, and now I have vacation rentals in Southern Utah instead. So the rent price ratios made sense. In denser cities, the landlord would have to out like 50% down just to break even on the mortgage. Yes, they may be cash flowing, but just barely, and the nuance is they put a massive down payment. It just depends on location.

For those who need a general rule of thumb comparing rent vs mortgage, there's the 5% rule: https://www.pwlcapital.com/rent-or-own-your-home-5-rule/

hmhhcycbtsc557• 5 years ago

I'd love to know what these nomadic folks do for friends and socialisation. I think I'd find it exceedingly lonely to uproot myself from urban civilisation (that includes the case of living in a new city every few month).

JKCalhoun2• 5 years ago

There are certainly areas you can go where lots of other nomads go (and then hang out with them). Quartzite, Arizona in the U.S. is the obvious example. I understand that, from there, you can caravan off with a group of like-minded nomads to the next destination.

unnouinceput• 5 years ago

Second picture from his camping trip should fully answer "what these nomadic folks do".

johndoe42377• 5 years ago

Why do difficult? $500/mo buys you a room, wi-fi and home made food almost everywhere in developing countries.

Working from home is a long sought boost for everyone. Places like Sikkim, or Ladakh, unspoiled parts of Nepal and Sri Lanka are ideal for remote work.

The problem is that there is no demand.

geocrasher• 5 years ago

Demand isn't the main problem- it's that if you live in such a place, most employers will want to pay you according to local wages. The idea of taking a job in the US overseas and the exploiting the economic difference sounds good on paper, but I've seen companies attempt to adjust income accordingly.

BEEdwards• 5 years ago

Just lie.

Use a friends address...

robjan• 5 years ago

Most companies don't allow fully remote or remote in different time zones. If they did, they could just outsource all the work to nationals of lower cost of living countries.

akudha3• 5 years ago

One thing westerners don't realize when they move to places like SriLanka is that they end up increasing the local prices. This happens in the US too, when Californians move to Texas and start paying more for properties (or rent). It is hard enough for people in developing countries to compete without foreigners moving in - with them, it becomes impossible.

aww_dang• 5 years ago

There's also employment generated from the services consumed. USD shortages and other problems are similarly ignored.

This is a zero-sum view. I've recently observed it becoming more popular online. True to form, the simple take misses all of the nuance.

On one hand there are people decrying the horrible conditions for housekeepers sending remittance from the Gulf. On the other there are economically troublesome analyses like the above.

paganel• 5 years ago

This already happens in a way in my country, you’ve got all these people who have emigrated for better wages and who are using the money they earned in those other countries to buy real estate at home. This is kind of shitty for the people that did not choose to emigrate, because on top of the shitty local wages they have to contend with rising real estate prices, too.

adav• 5 years ago

The author wanted to be nearby his children in Sydney, one of the most expensive cities in the world.

scrappyjoe• 5 years ago

One thing I’ve struggled to get right is building the right workspace inside a van.

At the moment I just sit on the bench seat with my laptop on my lap, but it’s slowly taking its toll on my posture.

Any advice?

JKCalhoun2• 5 years ago

Are you able to stand in the van? If not, that's going to be problematic, I think.

fy20• 5 years ago

Getting a monitor would probably help, at least you won't be bending your neck down all the time to see the screen. I've seen some vans that have swivel mounts, but you could also hook it up when in use, and take it down afterwards.

mkingston8• 5 years ago

Others have mentioned an external screen. I have two ThinkVision M14 monitors (selected for USB C power + data on a single cable, and high brightness) and some tablet holders that mount on a range of different 1/4in tripod mounting hardware. Look for tripod clamp stands, gooseneck arms, swivel heads. There's a lot out there, you'll figure out something that works for you. If you want a larger monitor, a VESA mount is what you want. There's various mounting hardware available for this also.

In the interim, try to put a pillow on your lap, and your laptop on the pillow. Try to tense your core a little in general, and especially if you feel discomfort in your back. You'll probably need to maintain the tension for a little while. I find this avoids or alleviates my discomfort- but is probably not a _good_ solution.

meowster• 5 years ago

laptop on the pillow

This is terrible for the thermals. You should never put a laptop on a surface that restricts airflow between the surface and the laptop.

Jon_Lowtek2• 5 years ago

https://oshwiki.eu/wiki/Ergonomics_in_Office_Work#Ergonomics...

dredmorbius7• 5 years ago

There are a bunch of van-office layouts on YouTube, Pinterest, etc. See those for inspiration. My view is that you'd likely need to design the interior around the office setup if this is a primary goal. Vans / trailers are often used as mobile offices (construction, oil/gas, video production), for more ideas, though generally these exclude or minimise living/food-prep space.

Basically, there's where you, your butt, monitor, keyboard, mouse, peripherals (printer/scanner, camera/audio gear), power, net, hardware, and any materials (books, suplies, etc.) go. Thermal management. Security.

Laptop or desktop system?

A swivel front seat (driver, passenger, or both), may be the best chair option. It's already there, adjusts to height/tilt, and is comfortable for long periods. Alternately a fold-down / jump seat.

Alternative bed / garage configurations may free up interior space, at a convenience cost. A Murphy, folding, or convertible bed especially.

Fold-out work-surface / stowable monitor next. Support for keyboard, mouse, tablet. A swing-arm monitor doubling as a video display, cabinet or roof mounted.

Easy access to anynecessary materials. Ability to get in or out.

Other seating or lounge space (bench, bed, stool, outside chairs) can be used with laptop, tablet, or possibly a wireless keyboard & mouse with monitor swung out, as an alternate workspace for variety.

CPU, storage, and networking kit can be built-in or mounted to cabinet or rack space, but will likely require airflow / cooling. Utilising or protecting from outdoor ambient conditions may assist.

Then there's sorting out where other amenities / services / systems / storage go (food prep, cooking, cleaning, bathing, toilet, sleeping, cloths, gear, electric, fuel, fresh & waste water, etc.)

bigmattystyles• 5 years ago

Glad the person landed on their feet. Can’t help but think this could have been titled ‘from a van down by the river’

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Xv2VIEY9-A8

tonyedgecombe• 5 years ago

Glad the person landed on their feet.

I'm not sure they did, their situation looks precarious to me.

xXReadmeXx• 5 years ago

Right? That blog took a really weird turn- and so do these comments.

forgotmypw176• 5 years ago

I can guess which video it is, and perhaps there is some truth to it, but it's quite one-dimensional, and taking it at face value is like buying into the stereotypes overweight nerd with Cheetos stains image of sysadmin or inept socially challenged software developer.

This lifestyle is incredible and life-changing, and shouldn't be discounted by anyone who's looking for a change.

gexla• 5 years ago

Right, why can't I just delete my comment then?

[ETA: Removed content of unpopular comment]

bpodgursky• 5 years ago

Then you should post those articles, and comment on them, instead of complaining about this one.

seibelj• 5 years ago

This thought experiment is turtles all the way down. When you read about someone running a marathon, do you not think from the perspective of a paraplegic? How dare someone writes about something as trivial as running super long distances, when we could be reading about people who struggle to walk one step?

Yes, the world is full of problems, but we don't need to stop living our best lives and writing about them just because someone, somewhere is living worse.

toomuchtodo• 5 years ago

Once replied to, a comment can’t be deleted, but still edited for two hours from creation.

b0tzzzzzzman3• 5 years ago

Glad I can comment.. But today I tried to make an Ask HN postbecause I wanted to talk to tbis community ... and I guess I have too little 'karma' or idk.. Can't post on most sub/R. Without using my main long standing account..Twitter deletes any account I make just to follow people, FB.. Well just no. Disenfranchisement is real on HN. Wish I had the old account I made on my Last Android..

wombatmobile3• 5 years ago

I've been thinking about working from a van. The main thing I'm undecided about is whether satellite internet would work out?

I've read mixed reviews on whirlpool and other forums.

I understand minimum latency is 650ms. What's that like for videoconferencing?

Presumably I'd need an articulated dish so I can recalibrate every time I stop. Anyone had any experience with those? They cost about $2000. Can they be secured, or are they likely to be ripped off from time to time?

yurishimo• 5 years ago

You might look into the new Space X satellite internet. Right now they’re geo fenced to an area but if you move once every few months, it might be feasible to change your service address.

zlsa• 5 years ago

Starlink[0] is made for you. It's a constellation in low-earth orbit, so latency is far lower than 650ms (current users are getting around of 30-60ms.) The current iteration must stay within the "cell" it's assigned to, which is only a few miles wide. But in the future, there will be a version available that'll work almost anywhere in the world.

[0] https://www.starlink.com/

brudgers• 5 years ago

Try tethering a cell phone first. It’s the simplest thing that might work. You will always be solving problems as they come up. And they won’t be what you thought was critical before you left.

TaylorAlexander2• 5 years ago

Certainly the thing to use in the near future would be starlink. 50-150 mbps and <100ms ping. Right now they're only advertising their service for fixed locations, but if you park the van in one place for a while it might work out just fine.

We use Viasat at our farm and it's acceptable but kind of slow and has a long ping. I'm really itching to get starlink which they've projected will be available at our place later this year.

wombatmobile3• 5 years ago

So it’s possible to videoconference with viasat’s long ping? Unpleasant, or unusable?

mkingston8• 5 years ago

Depends how remote you want to be. Your username suggests you're not living in Western Europe. But a (directional, especially) 4g antenna outside your vehicle can still go quite a long way, compared to cell phone tethering. You'll probably have to buy a 4g router also. I guess the lot would set you back less than AUD200.

jbarches• 5 years ago

A router may be ~200, but I imagine monthly plans for unlimited are over 100/month from a traditional cell provider.

This seems very expensive. How do you set up the monthly plan more efficiently?

forgotmypw176• 5 years ago

Accessibility link for noJSers who still want to see the images: https://archive.is/Xx1WB

I lived out of a minivan and then a larger fan for 2.5 years while writing software and loved it.

It was one of the most freeing and enriching experiences of my life, and was so much better than living in a stationary building.

I traveled all around the country and was still able to remain productive. In fact, I was more productive and motivated, because my life was actually interesting and different day-to-day.

It was sometimes uncomfortable, especially in the beginning when I learned the ropes, but nothing too bad. (This is in the U.S., where it's safe to do in majority of places.)

In my gradual cutting of monthly upkeep expenditures I had to give it up in favor of more detached living, but it was great, and I would do it again if I didn't have to do paid work to accomplish it.

SamuelAdams• 5 years ago

So, something that always seems to be missing from these blog posts: what do you do about showering / bathroom? What happens when it gets into cold wintery weather?

forgotmypw176• 5 years ago

for bathrooms, i can usually find one. for showering, i used to find them too... but more recently showers are just something i gave up. i live indoors atm and i have access to a shower pretty much 24/7, and i,m just not interested.

i don,t think it is missing, it is one of the most frequently asked questions, and also one of the most frequently answered.

ghuntley2• 5 years ago

I'll blog about this next. Add yourself to the newsletter at https://ghuntley.com/signup to get it in your inbox.

dredmorbius7• 5 years ago

A video linked to the post answers both questions, in a pretty elegant setup, for an 6m single-occupant van:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l-DgMYB6L0c

Bathing:

- Sponge bath, external shower hookup, or an internal shower, are common. Using gym / campground / community centre facilities is also frequent, loss of these a major fallout of Covid. Taking a "navy shower" minimises water use. There are recirculating showers (with filters) used by some, and instant-on-demand hot water heaters (used by most). The video shows a bathroom built into cabinets which opens for use, shower curtail is pulled up. Fixed-wall stalls exist but really chew into space, often double as closet space.

- Cassette or composting toilets latter w/ urine diverter, are common. Again, using available facilities is often preferred.

- Winter is easy: a small heater and insulation. Condensation is a bigger worry than cold, especially against the front windshield. Summer heat is generally worse --- keeping a metal box under full sun cool is a challenge. Especially where solar exposure is needed.

Frypa• 5 years ago

Could you please share your monthly expenses. I found this fascinating.

forgotmypw176• 5 years ago

I try to avoid them.

ChuckMcM2• 5 years ago

I have been prototyping a portable working setup so that I can write code while camping. Rather than a van I've got a smallish travel trailer (24') in part because I like having the tow vehicle available when I don't want to batten down the hatches to go into town, but we are set up for 100% off road dry camping which gives us access to a LOT of BLM land. Now if I could get mobile Starlink service ... that would be stellar. But not happening any time soon AFAICT.

whymauri• 5 years ago

How are you dealing with internet connectivity? Also car/van dwelling here (dipping my toes in for a few weeks) while taking a break from employment. I'm starting to get attached to the nomadic life style, lol.

ChuckMcM2• 5 years ago

Generally cellular signals. For actual development I don't need connectivity (embedded/fpga stuff) so it isn't a large handicap.

scsilver• 5 years ago

Cell coverage is pretty grest on flat areas all around the western us, the mountains are a bit harder.

chrisrickard• 5 years ago

I envy you Geoff (as you know!), and my plan is to do the same later this year.

I'm not sure how my wife and I will go long term, but living in campervan has always been a dream - so only one way to find out! :)

BruceBlacklaws3• 5 years ago

What happens if you have an accident?

I can imagine this going really wrong

TheSmiddy• 5 years ago

What happens if a nearby tree falls on your stationary house?

villasv2• 5 years ago

Local firefighters and an ambulance will come and arrive quickly? I think that’s exactly the point of the question.

BruceBlacklaws3• 5 years ago

Really?

simonbarker872• 5 years ago

I lived in a van for a winter a couple of years back outside the company I then owned while weekly-ish commuting to my new home a couple of hundred miles away. While I didn’t have the isolation that OP can have (we ran a small factory and staff) it was freeing to be unshackled from a stationary home and to move about freely, looking back I’m bit sure I took full advantage of that period but I did enjoy it.

Perhaps I will try it again in a few years with my wife this time.

codesternews2• 5 years ago

How did you take bath and clean your self. Where did you go for piss etc?

simonbarker872• 5 years ago

Gym membership at a hotel gym round the corner, showered after my evening gym session, camping loo in the van if no alternative

knocte2• 5 years ago

Van-life with no bed in the van? or it's not clear from the pics...

b0tzzzzzzman3• 5 years ago

Often statment, articles, glanced over reads are dismissed. I have seen several similar things today which are heavily commented on and shills repeate the mantra .. Poor millennial forced to live in van, or tiny house. This was a nice change from that.

akudha3• 5 years ago

I expect more and more people are going to live in vans, buy tiny houses etc. Housing prices across the world are insane, rental prices are even worse (though Covid has put a temporary brake on rents/prices, it will go back up soon enough). And wages aren't rising, and rental companies buying up properties every chance they get.

Something needs to change. Why screw oneself with a 30 year mortgage, plus property taxes, plus constant maintenance headaches? And deal with shitty HOA too, in some places. Maybe this is a good way to silently protest and force progressive housing policy changes.

mym19903• 5 years ago

While I see some of your point, it goes without saying that vanlife or smaller dwellings will still have maintenance and overhead. You can trade the HOA for gas costs and campground fees(across the US at least unless you're on public land). The vehicle will breakdown, the vehicle will get broken into, etc, etc...

With a more remote workforce now on the long term horizon, why not just move to a cheaper city rather completely jumping off the proverbial cliff?

(This comment is coming from someone who is considering van life and I have also spent some extended periods of time working and living out of my vehicle).

akudha3• 5 years ago

Yeah, true. But there is a big difference between maintaining a three bedroom house (or apartment) and a tiny house. Van life is probably much harder (just guessing, I haven't done it), so it will probably not be as widespread as tiny houses.

Remote work might not be possible for everyone.

Personally, moving to a cheaper city would be my first choice, followed by tiny house.

All of these have pros and cons. But for many people in their 20s/30s, buying a house might never be an option at all, simply because they can't afford it.

Unless progressive policies are implemented, we can expect major housing crisis soon. People want their home's value to continuously increase, they see their home as an investment first - instead of seeing it as a place to live, first.

I dunno what the solution is, but I don't think this situation can continue.

dredmorbius7• 5 years ago

A cheap home base + a van seems like a flexible option. You've got low overhead but the option to hit the road for on-location gigs or when the wanderlust kicks in. A co-housing arrangement might make the base more tractable.

Erlich_Bachman2• 5 years ago

Housing prices across the world are insane,

They only are insane if you insist on living centrally in large cities. Which you can't do anyway if you live in a van. So it's hard to give a lot of weight to this prediction.

randomsearch2• 5 years ago

I think they’re just insane generally. Almost everywhere in the U.K., housing is much more expensive than the cost of building it.

This is really beginning to concern me. I think we’ve created a fake plastic economy built on face plastic house prices. By stoking the bubble, the purchase and renovation of housing keeps pushing money through the economy.

By constantly remortgaging, new value is “created” which allows people to have a new kitchen, go on holiday, buy a car, extend their house. But it feels like a trick to me. I’m not an economist, but where’s the wealth creation here?

As a result of the forever rising prices, foreign investors buy properties, often leaving them empty. They see the game the government is playing and exploit it.

Feels like the U.K. government doesn’t have a Plan B. They don’t know how to create a strong economy so they turn to retail and the housing market. Surely the wheels have to fall off at some point?

dredmorbius7• 5 years ago

If you look at the net of local affordability, access, and availability, the problem is widespread.

Housing has become a principle (and one of the largest) asset classes. The things that make it suitable for investing are precisely the same attributes that make it inaccessible, especially to the young, poor, old, and otherwise disadvantaged.

Flyover-state housing may be affordable by SF / New York / LA / Chicago standards. It's often not affordable to locals themselves.

And services (data, power, food, support, healthcare, education) are often far below standards typical on the coasts / near major metros.

tkiolp42• 5 years ago

Large cities is where jobs are. 90% of the jobs out there are non remote.

legulere• 5 years ago

The problem is not the cost of houses, but the cost of land in desirable locations. Van living and tiny houses don’t solve those problems and most people are still bound to their city jobs.

shrubble• 5 years ago

Starlink internet may be the catalyst for an exodus from the cities(even though many smaller cities and towns do have good enough internet). Or at least a re-examination , given that so many are working from home.

dis-sys• 5 years ago

Thanks to the pandemic and the hot money dumped into the market under the name of helping the economy, Sydney property prices is going up again. For me, it is simply criminal to drive the property prices further up after 8 years nonstop growth.

jspash• 5 years ago

If this sort of thing interests you, watch Nomadland https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nomadland_(film)

It's about people in American with similar situations who decide to go off grid. And like the OP are a bit older, not necessarily the hippie type.

The movie is quite stark and realistic. A mix of documentary and drama. And it starts Frances McDormand from Three Billboards, who is excellent in it.

That said, this lifestyle has absolutely no appeal to me. What do you do when you get older? I mean much older? Is a 70 year going to be lugging propane tanks around and doing odd jobs for food? There needs to be some sort of plan, doesn't there?

wombatmobile3• 5 years ago

Is a 70 year going to be lugging propane tanks around and doing odd jobs for food?

Good question. That’s a thing. People have this grey nomad ideal and when they reach that age they sell up everything and buy a big rig, only to find that at age 70, it’s difficult to drive such a thing. Particularly if they’ve never reversed a trailer before.

This is why you can buy second hand rigs that are 12 months old that are hardly used, cheap.

cma• 5 years ago

There are systems in trucks now that can basically reverse a trailer for you.

zemvpferreira2• 5 years ago

While I don't think you're wrong on average about the physical abilities of senior people these days, consider that anyone who is forced to do a reasonable amount of manual labor as they age will age a lot a slower than if they were sedentary.

My dad has been 100% sedentary since his 60s. He's now 71 with the mobility of a 90 year old. His father was a military man who kept a strict exercise routine till his 80s. He looked (and performed like) 55 at 75. Designing a lifestyle that forces you to move and lift heavy things is a really good idea.

Veen• 5 years ago

There is definitely a benefit to keeping up an exercise regime, but people who work manual labor jobs throughout their career frequently suffer from severe joint pain, back pain, and other other unpleasant consequences as they age. Many of my father's friends were physically destroyed and living with chronic pain by the time they reached their early-50s.

CodeGlitch2• 5 years ago

I've never understood using vans over caravans. With a van if it breaks down you are pretty stuffed as all of your kit is in it. Plus if you have to make trips into a city/town you are wasting fuel carting all that stuff around, and the risk of theft would make me nervous.

Caravans don't have any of those downsides, but I guess people make it work?

sammyq• 5 years ago

Where do you leave your caravan when traveling into town, wouldn’t leaving it make it more susceptible to theft?

knocte2• 5 years ago

Exactly. On top of that, you have to find specific places where it's allowed to park them. However, you can park a van anywhere.

CodeGlitch2• 5 years ago

I would say the risk of theft is far lower out in the country side.

betwixthewires• 5 years ago

As someone who lives how you say OP should, caravans do have downsides. They're not usually made very well and if you're traveling a lot they're not well suited to it. If you're moving to a new place every few months or something they're alright. If you're moving every 2 weeks or few days, a van is where it's at. There are different ways to live a nomadic type of life and vans are more suited to a more extreme nomadic life than caravans.

riekus• 5 years ago

I have lived in Sydney (manly) in 2020, it is a beautiful city, but indeed crazy expensive. I have left to the outback to save money and kickstart the nomadic life. I really hope I will be able to return to australia when I am older to do exactly this. There is a big community of (mostly older and retired) people roaming australia with camper/caravan. To me, it would be the ultimate life.

To the OP, please come and visit Hopetoun VIC, free camping at the lake, you would love it here

villasv2• 5 years ago

Completely off-topic, but I find it weird when someone is making a comment on the warmth of a community says things like “Love was free and it was custom to hug everyone”. So it was normal, then?

It probably has something to do with being born in Brazil/RJ, where hugging everyone is the norm.

_v7gu• 5 years ago

I think frowning upon physical contact is a British custom that spread far because of all the imperialism. It's really weird how people avoid close contact, something a human body needs.

Wildgoose• 5 years ago

We traditionally shake hands when we greet - that's physical contact. Whereas East Asians typically bow and make no physical contact at all. So your comment simply isn't true and doesn't really make much sense. (I haven't downvoted you by the way).

varispeed• 5 years ago

The problem is that big corporations are raking in the billions whilst at the same time paying unrealistic salaries. Plus, in many western countries employees pay enormous taxes on top of that. The system is rigged towards the rich - their companies don't pay the same taxes an average Joe company pays and they can afford creative accounting to keep much more of what they make than me and you. This has to change! I am sick and tired when next politician claims they'll rise the tax for the rich, and then it turns out me and you have to pay even more whereas your CEO laughs and buys another Bentley.

fakedang• 5 years ago

I always roll my eyes whenever another hard-left politician such as AOC or Corbyn comes over and does the whole big talk about how corporations ought to be taxed fairly and all. And later, when they are in power, they call for actions such as (favorable) censorship and what not, while doing zero about big corporations because it's easier to control (and pander to) one big entity than multiple single entities. As long as corporate entities are allowed to donate to political parties, and as long as fundraising remains some kind of race in the eyes of the media, expect this nonsense to continue.

Politicians don't care about taxing corporations that they like. You'll see them do the whole dance against Big Oil or Walmart or whatever, but when it comes to Big Tech, boy do they love their Apple toys and Google Internet.

postit• 5 years ago

I don't understand the reason why but it seems a constant that the majority of tech workers are the sole income for the house. Maybe I'm more exposed to H1B workers in US, but that holds even in other places.

michaelt3• 5 years ago

It's common enough in other professions that make six figure salaries.

And if you're in tech, you probably know more people in tech than you know accountants/doctors/lawyers/chemical engineers/business owners.

blunte• 5 years ago

There’s so much value in this post that it’s worth reading a few times.

lioeters• 5 years ago

I agree, that was quite an article: heartfelt and thought-provoking.

Thank you, Geoff, for writing about your experience. It made me happy to see how you pulled through the difficult times, and living better than ever.

ghuntley2• 5 years ago

♥

max_• 5 years ago

Could someone explain to me why/how divorce ends up delivering such fate?

Do these citizens in these countries think these laws around divorce are fair?

nvahalik• 5 years ago

This is a complicated topic. Marriages dissolve for many reasons. In general, though, western society has embraced a view of marriage that combining view with a coupling view. No longer are married people “as one” but rather a couple mutually supporting each other.

While this doesn’t seem like a difference, it has major implications in pretty much all aspects of life.

kleinsch• 5 years ago

From the article: "the cost of housing in Sydney, Australia and sole-income was a leading factor in the dissolution of the relationship"

Whatever opinions you have about divorce law aside, it's a simple fact that if housing was already a difficult expense, it gets much harder when one family becomes two.

agumonkey3• 5 years ago

Same as people owning a property .. messy split up, probably selling the previous 'house' and having to find a safe spot somewhere. The van part doesn't seem the main factor.

lucaspanjaard• 5 years ago

Can you tell us more about the combination of van life and raising children?

moocowtruck• 5 years ago

Thank you for writing this I really enjoyed it, read the whole damn thing! I am happy for you and it helps put things in perspective for me. I look forward to reading more in the future from you

saint_angels• 5 years ago

seems people upgrade their vans significantly(additional batteries, solar panels etc) before living and remotely working from it. Is it because there is no good ready-made options, or vans like that are too expensive?

michaelt3• 5 years ago

I think the DIY aspect is the brand differentiation between "vanlife" and living in an RV in the wal-mart parking lot.

There's plenty of ready-made options, they're just not using the "vanlife" brand on their blog posts.

jstanley• 5 years ago

every two years that goes by at a company you don't like (or unemployed) is wasting 2% of your working life.

Can someone explain this? Is OP suggesting that the typical working life is 100 years?

knuthsat• 5 years ago

Depends on how much time (in hours) you spend working. 2 years is maybe 1 year of working time.

godDLL• 5 years ago

1/50 is 2% math

atleta4• 5 years ago

Not too many people work for 50 years. Also, the post said every two years: "every two years that goes by at a company you don't like".

atleta4• 5 years ago

It was ambiguous, but he compared the wasted time (time wasted at work while working for a bad company) to the total time you have in your working life. He says you spend 21%-35% of your time at work, so during that 2 years you'd spend .42-0.7 years working. And if you calculate with 40 years of work life, then it comes to about 2% of that time.

rdiddly2• 5 years ago

That might be what happened. The reason it's unsound is, the numerator is in actual time spent at work and the denominator is in total elapsed time including non-work.

rdiddly2• 5 years ago

Yeah, it's wrong. 2 years out of let's say 40 would be 5%. 2/50 is 4%.

Also 8 hrs is closer to half one's waking hours so that's either another math error, or a mistaken inclusion of the word "waking" (actually he used "awake"), or he works part-time.

SeeManDo2• 5 years ago

It all comes down to having a decent place to eat, use the restroom and sleep. After that the only necessity is electricity and internet.

SeeManDo2• 5 years ago

Everything else (marriage, kids) are luxury items.

idlewords• 5 years ago

Matt Foley was a prophet.

agumonkey3• 5 years ago

I see a lot of people, a lot, spending time in their cars. Adults between duties sit in theirs on parking spots. Teens spending nights watching movies.

With wireless coms, weird real estate fluctuations.. new vehicle designs too it might become a new form of nomadism.. are we becoming snails ?

Xophmeister• 5 years ago

The idea of living in a converted van has certainly appealed to me many times. However, vehicles need maintenance and consumables, to the point that their natural life is quite short compared to a building (which also needs maintenance and consumables). Is the “freedom” that the mobility buys you worth it over, say, 10 years; at which point, your van is nearing the end of its life? A middle ground might be a boat, but I am aware of the adage: “The two happiest days of a boat owner’s life are the day he buys a boat and the day he sells it!”

thaeli• 5 years ago

10 years is far from end of life for a vanlife conversion. Many conversions start with something older than that. Boats are in water, so they have a lot more wear and tear. If you stay out of the road salt states, it's normal to see 40 year old camper vans still in daily use.

The real limiting factor is when the furnishings, flooring, cabinets, appliances, all that stuff wears out. Manufactured housing in general has this 20 to 40 year depreciation, because we don't pretend as a society that they're an appreciating asset. Its ridiculous that we treat stick built houses (as opposed to the land they are built on) that way; houses have major maintenance costs over time as well. It's just easier with manufactured housing of any type to, instead of: new roof, new HVAC, a kitchen renovation, new flooring, etc etc, just.. defer maintenance on those items as practical and then replace the whole thing or do a major midlife overhaul. (The latter does require a "home base", so doing vanlife long term does require finding places to settle down occasionally - this lifestyle is much easier for people who have families and/or friends with single family detached homes in suburban or rural areas they can crash with sometimes.)

holografix• 5 years ago

Something needs to be done about housing affordability in Australia’s capital cities.

It’s ABSURD how much money you need to pay for a 2 bedroom apartment.

Anywhere 1.5 hour drive north or south of Sydney and still within 20 minute drive from the ocean is minimum $AUD800K.

If you want to buy in Sydney proper it’s $AUD1M minimum unless looking at something in need of serious renovations.

The government does nothing to stop the bubble. Rivers of dubious Chinese money flooding in and lax lending practices combined with reduction after reduction in the interest rates.

The current government in Australia is hijacking the next gen’s future with bad environmental policy, foreign dependency of the education sector and a housing bubble that never ends.

Yaggo• 5 years ago

I often work in my Tesla Model 3, e.g. when travelling or waiting for kids from their hobbies. You can't compare it to a van of course, but I'm able to find relatively comfortable seating position for few hours with laptop on my lap (!). You'll get air conditioning and nice audio. No need to run the engine, of course. I know that many people even sleep in their Teslas occasionally, replacing a tent.

A new chapter – full-time working from a van in a forest

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