OP-Z Synthesizer

https://teenage.engineering/products/op-z

by vermilingua • 7 years ago

202 114 7 years ago

teenage.engineering

th0ma5• 7 years ago

That's a good price.

nkozyra• 7 years ago

I'm not convinced, particularly given Teenage Engineering's pricing history.

I root for them, absolutely. But their stuff carries a premium and is technically limited, generally fulfilling a novelty space.

The big win here is the visual stuff, but again I'm not sure that justifies the price.

lbotos• 7 years ago

I might change the word novelty with "boutique".

They are building "fun" interfaces but the korg montron's are more a "novelty".

tedkalaw• 7 years ago

I was thinking of getting one but considering the price point, there are far too many stories of broken devices and slow/non-existent support:

https://www.reddit.com/r/OP1users/comments/bpxuyl/second_op_... https://www.reddit.com/r/OP1users/comments/bokuo5/te/ https://www.reddit.com/r/OP1users/comments/bnkcro/keybed_rep...

If they treat people paying 1300 USD for a device like that, can’t imagine how they’ll handle OP-Z owners.

I love the all-in-one idea and getting away from the DAW but it feels too risky to me.

shams93• 7 years ago

Yeah that's why I would just build my own video synth its not that difficult to do and stick with pocket operators which are under $100. Especially since op-z can't record digital tracks or sample like the op-1.

nikofeyn5• 7 years ago

what is a competing device that says this price isn’t justified?

miloshadzic• 7 years ago

I would never call OP-1 limited. I haven't touched the OP-Z but I doubt I'd think it's "technically limited" as well.

I'd say that the OP-1 is probably one of the better designed musical instruments in the recent past.

unsatchmo• 7 years ago

The decision to depend on an external device is going to suck in 30 years. This is where the OP1 shines. Meanwhile I have synthesizers from the 70's and 80's that still work well and sound amazing.

sdenton4• 7 years ago

My sense is that it doesn't strictly rely on an external device - you can find your way to where you like without a screen... My long-term fear is what happens when the internal batteries get old.

(I love my OP-1 and pile of pocket operators; Teenage Engineering is doing amazing work.)

djs070• 7 years ago

The battery is replaceable, not sure that it's a big concern. I'd kill to see open documented bindings for wireless interaction, as well as the ability to write custom synth engines, but really doesn't appear to be the direction for them.

mastazi• 7 years ago

Maybe I misunderstood the OP-Z manual but I think that some of the functionality of the OP-Z is only accessible if you connect it to an iOS device, e.g. the two features called Photomatic and Videolab.

PS some recent promotional material by TE said that the OP-Z app is iOS only "for now", so at least there is hope that it will become available on more platform.

lalalandland• 7 years ago

I have a Yamaha Motif Rack synth, from around 2004. It has software to aid in the parameter settings if you want to make a new sound. It is a advanced synth and quite complicated. The tiny screen and knobs on the front panel is very fiddly to use so software on a computer is a better solution. But I fear that in just a few years the 2004 software will not run on any new computer and I will have to keep old computers around to program the synth.

rwmj4• 7 years ago

I wouldn't worry too much about not being able to run the software forever -- after all virtualization, DOSbox and whatever means we can run both recently old and ancient software. But I came to say has no one reverse engineered the protocol and implemented open source software for it?

whenchamenia• 7 years ago

I have that issue on some current gear, most notably the Yamaha MagicStomp. An amazing pedal, still prized by many looking for certain sounds. Handicapped by windows xp only software that just barely runs on a Win7. I keep an old laptop around for that and 2 other devices. Its not a sustainable situation, and many neat devices are becoming impractical if not imposible to use a decade on.

johnwheeler• 7 years ago

You do ‘t happen to have a spare CS-80 or Jupiter 8 lying around about to make its way to the trash heap do you? I could take either of your hands, free of charge ;-P

jacquesm• 7 years ago

I played with one of these a month or so ago and will definitely get one for my more musically oriented child to play around with. They're fun and a different way at making synthesized sounds, the UI is reminiscent of handheld game consoles. Beware though, these could very well be a gateway drug to a house full of gear ;)

bitL2• 7 years ago

You can't ever overcome synth GAS... I have a music studio full of latest greatest toys and it's never enough... Better excise it right in the beginning or you are lost forever ;-)

grenoire3• 7 years ago

Proprietary device with proprietary bindings. I like pocket operators a lot, but this seems like TE is going the opposite of where I wished they would...

nikofeyn5• 7 years ago

what a strange stance. what would you have them do?

and if you want an open source “portable keyboard thing”, then there’s already the organelle. it is no surprise it isn’t much cheaper and isn’t as well designed, for both hardware and software.

https://www.critterandguitari.com/organelle

grenoire3• 7 years ago

An HDMI/USB port, alongside access not simply for Unity but also for raw data for use with OpenGL and whatnot. It's not an unreasonable request.

wifijacob2• 7 years ago

it has midi over both usb and bluetooth (low energy), which both should be considered standards.

_eLRIC• 7 years ago

Promising similar open source project : https://github.com/topisani/OTTO

The progress made by the guys these last months is impressive, and both the UI and hardware aestetics really shines (while they are inspired by the OP1, they now have their own personality)

tinco• 7 years ago

Awesome! How did you find out about this project? I've been looking to work on a project like this and didn't find them.

pcerdam• 7 years ago

At least in my case, I remember seeing them somewhere here on HN before. It's amazing project, for sure!

monkeynotes3• 7 years ago

I have also seen this project while looking for an open source VST in a pi-box thing. Looks really neat.

jypepin• 7 years ago

Whatever Teenage Engineering makes, it looks awesome and seems to be of great quality.

I randomly found out about them and started looking at a bunch of youtube videos, it made me really want to check those things out.

I ended up buying a PO-33 KO, it's super fun. Turns out I can't make music (and don't really care for it) but the quality of the product is awesome and I'd recommend to anyone interested in music.

jnskw• 7 years ago

I'm in the same boat. I really like the product but have a really hard time creating anything enjoyable.

Cthulhu_3• 7 years ago

Same, I'm drawn to the buttons and knobs and flashing lights and cables though.

Is there any good tutorial or course out there on how to evolve from making a thing create random noises to actual music?

I mean this device is a big initial investment. The Pocket Operators less so though.

A colleague also showed me the Korg Monologue, which has a lot of things going for it (synthesizer + sampler built in one, only thing lacking maybe is drums / beats but you could hook it up to idk, GarageBand maybe and stream it through or add it later?)

brunoc2• 7 years ago

A good way to start is taking a piece of music you like and trying to reproduce a reasonable facsimile. Going top down like this gives you some insight into the structure of music without having to start from “first principles”.

dmix• 7 years ago

Audio production has lots of well designed products these days.

Also plenty of bad ones but still it's interesting if you're into electronics/technology.

fit2rule3• 7 years ago

I'm of the opposite side of the fence - I get lured in by TE's design ethos, but find myself immediately un-inspired by the results. I've had two OP-1's, and an opportunity to play with their new modular synth, and .. it looks great. But it just sounds meh.

That said, I have refined my personal tastes for synth aesthetics over decades of investment. I just can't find the OP-1 worth the money, nor even effort to play - when there are so many other great devices out there for less hype.

Believe me, I try to love the OP-1 and OP-Z when I've had it in my hands. But I'd seriously just rather have a proper synth. The OP-1 feels like a piss-take.

rcarmo2• 7 years ago

The OP-Z is cute, but I’ve been looking for an iOS synth app that comes close to the OP-1 experience for a long while - in my view, it is a much nicer synth.

kennywinker3• 7 years ago

If you find it, let me know!

I have tried:

GarageBand - powerful, but hard to get into full flow. Frustrating lack of deep dive - you can tweak presets but not build patches from scratch.

Korg Gadget - full control over the synths. Pretty good piano-roll style editing, but hard to record live. Also, I think it’s something in the default reverb that gives everything a very contemporary sound... not great if you’re not a fan of that sound.

julian552• 7 years ago

I have Korg Gadget and I also like Groovebox. It's more limited than Gadget but I think that makes it easier to get started.

fab1an• 7 years ago

Do take a look at Korg Gadget - it is a tremendous piece of software. VERY easy to pick up and just jam even with the vanilla synths (Chiang Mai is one big sweet spot), but really also deep enough to produce pro level tracks. The additional KORG synths (especially the wave station and ODYSSEi) are high end emulations and basically indistinguishable from the original hardware.

hellofunk2• 7 years ago

I would say indistinguishable is an overstatement.

jweather2• 7 years ago

One of my favorite OP-1/OP-Z artists just did a video with a whole bunch of iOS apps -- doesn't make it any more affordable when you price them all, but at least you can mix and match the parts you want: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d12SNIcO32Q

rcarmo2• 7 years ago

Oh yes, Red Means Recording. Long time fan. :)

bicepjai• 7 years ago

On similar note: I am so addicted to the programmable synthesizer http://foxdot.org/

bambax• 7 years ago

This looks amazing! How steep would you say is the learning curve? Is it worth it?

julian552• 7 years ago

Foxdot is based on Python so if you know Python you can get going making beats pretty quickly. It's great fun to play with but I think it takes time to get used to thinking of melodies in terms of numbers rather than frets or keys. I'm now spending some time learning Supercollider which Foxdot uses to make sounds.

jweather2• 7 years ago

Or if Ruby is your jam, here's a Ruby+Supercollider mashup: https://sonic-pi.net/

RickS• 7 years ago

https://twitter.com/nobodycarestrue/status/11307640497868718...

spopejoy2• 7 years ago

Every programmer/musician (or music-curious) owes themselves a look at Supercollider https://supercollider.github.io/.

  // two band limited square waves thru a resonant low pass filter
  { RLPF.ar(Pulse.ar([100,250],0.5,0.1), XLine.kr(8000,400,5), 0.05) }.play;

It's really an incredibly interesting multi-paradigm language with elements of Smalltalk and J. The above code sounds great btw and is right out of the docs for `Pulse`.

kennywinker3• 7 years ago

Some alternatives if the op-z isn’t quite hitting the spot for you:

Elektron Digitakt - powerful sampler / sequencer. No synth engine but you can make many synth sounds using single-cycle samples.

Elektron Digitone - same form-factor as above but with an fm synthesis engine (think yamaha dx7) instead of a sampler.

Novation Circuit - wayyy cheaper. Can play samples but not sample live. Powerful synth engine, not fully editable without a computer. Good for live improve with pre-composed patterns.

emzperx3• 7 years ago

I know one better, Deluge Synthstrom. It's more expensive, but all of the above and ++

SeanLuke• 7 years ago

(think yamaha dx7)

More properly, think Yamaha TX81Z + filter.

monkeynotes3• 7 years ago

Synthstrom Deluge (Synth, drums, amazing sequencer, sampler and soon to be live looper in v3) was the choice for me when considering TE products. I almost bought a bunch of Pocket Operators, then I looked at the cost and decided to just pull the trigger on what I really wanted and got a Deluge. I love it, so much.

rwmj4• 7 years ago

The USP of the Deluge seems to be the isomorphic(?) chord keyboard. How did you find that to be? Was it easy to learn?

I admit I would love one but the price puts me off.

jgalentine007• 7 years ago

Octatrack and mpc live/x if you got the cash is also awesome.

spopejoy2• 7 years ago

Korg Electribe

fit2rule3• 7 years ago

For me, the 1010Music Blackbox is a drum-machine/sequencing/sampling workstation to watch out for when it starts shipping, hopefully soon:

https://1010music.com/product/blackbox

Review here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fcADNN9_Sok

woofwoofwoof• 7 years ago

Wow, it’s quite expensive, especially in comparison with recent gen of affordable synths.

Tepix• 7 years ago

Can you point to some affordable recommendable synths?

Cthulhu_3• 7 years ago

I've recently played with the Korg Monologue, it's a solid machine, analog synthesizer and step sequencer, enough standard ports to extend it eventually - a criticism to the device mentioned in the OP is that it's pretty nonstandard in a bigger workflow. It's < $300, still not cheap but a pretty good package overall.

A lower price is the Korg Volca, at $100 - $150 per unit. They're less versatile though and you'll probably end up having to buy / link up multiple.

Even lower and you're looking at stuff like the Teenage Engineering Pocket Operator series, single card devices in the $70 range. There's a wide range of variations, each of which (correct me if I'm wrong) has 16 instruments and a programmable step sequencer, 16 patterns preloaded. The preloaded patterns have only 16 steps, but you can program it to have more than that and switch between patterns every 16 beats. You can link up multiple together as well, they can synchronize with one another (iirc you have to hook up your phone as the first step which generates a synchronization signal).

rwmj4• 7 years ago

Korg KO2S. It's a synthesizer, but in a rather unusual package (so if you're looking for something with a piano keyboard, look elsewhere). It's a huge amount of fun and you can at least to some extent write proper music on it. It's also for what it is capable of very inexpensive.

brunoc2• 7 years ago

Same as sibling comments, and I would add that if you’re interested in modular fun, there is now a Volca Modular and in a slightly more expensive bracket, the Behringer Neutron has a ton of features for the money.

huslage• 7 years ago

The Arturia MicroFreak is a great little synth.

kennywinker3• 7 years ago

Arturia microbrute is a great first analog monosynth.

The Arturia microfreak is an interesting new digital synth in a similar form factor.

The Yamaha Reface CS is an 8-voice virtual analog synth with a very understandable layout. Basically a juno 106 in an apartment-sized form factor.

As someone else mentioned, the volcas are a great starting point, and the korg monologue has an oscilloscope built in that makes learning sound design surprisingly understandable.

Just my opinion, but I think you should stay away from the Roland Boutique synths. I found them very unpleasant to use and not inspiring at all. I have not used the 808/909 drum machine boutiques - they may be better.

You can always go vintage. E.g. Some of the 2000s grooveboxes (electribes, various roland mc-xxx things) can be had for $100-200 on craigslist, and will be a ton of fun.

bborud2• 7 years ago

Teenage Engineering make astonishing products you just want to own even though you have no use for them. There is something deeply aesthetically pleasing about their devices.

If the price hadn't been so steep for their OP-1 I would have bought one on impulse years ago.

Cthulhu_3• 7 years ago

One of those moments where you wish you had fuck-you money.

Of course when you dive into electronic music you suddenly find out there's a lot of really sweet stuff you can spend a huge amount of money on. I've been fortunate that I've been able to play around with some stuff from e.g. Moog; it's really gratifying to play around with the knobs and such. I mean it's expensive, but it's also really high quality, doesn't depreciate much (vintage stuff even appreciates, especially if it's failed products that have been rediscovered for other music styles than originally intended / existed), etc.

wazoox• 7 years ago

I did, and unfortunately I use very rarely, because I simply don't have enough time to learn how to work efficiently with it.

siralonso2• 7 years ago

I've been traveling full-time for a year and living out of basically one big rolling-suitcase. Every time I'm back in the states, I convince myself to put the OP-1 in storage - it's just taking up weight, I could just as well use Ableton, etc...

...but I can never bring myself to leave it. I don't use it a ton, but when I do I get sucked into it for 4+ hours. I especially love to use it on long international flights (I read someplace this was one of the design goals), and my tape tracks are crammed with loops from the last 5 years - it's unexpectedly nostalgic to listen back.

I originally bought it because of that strange impulse you mentioned, at a time when I really shouldn't have been buying expensive synth-toys - but I'm so, so glad that I did. Totally encourage you to pick one up if you ever get the opportunity!

jskopek• 7 years ago

I’m in a very similar situation with the OP-Z! No musical background, bought it because I was curious about the UI. I find myself getting sucked into it for hours at a time, even though I haven’t yet made a beat I’d be comfortable sharing.

My original plan was to sell the OP-Z after a few months, but now I think I will hold onto this thing until it dies.

Razengan• 7 years ago

Teenage Engineering make astonishing products you just want to own even though you have no use for them. There is something deeply aesthetically pleasing about their devices.

Which reminds me of Apple.

bborud2• 7 years ago

I can't say the same for Apple anymore. When I see Apple products I have a feeling that is equal parts regret and sadness. I've come to associate Apple products with functionally flawed products.

elsherbini2• 7 years ago

I have an OP-1 and an OP-Z. More and more I use the OP-Z, the sequencing workflow is just incredible. I don't have an ios device and after climbing the learning curve it's totally functional without a screen.

Also, the OP-Z can be used to sequence several pieces of external hardware at once [0]. Definitely not a toy. It has it's quirks (e.g. adding your own samples requires chopping them to exactly 6 seconds or all hell breaks loose, and no ability to "zoom in" on your sequence if you have multiple trigs per step) but it's a trade-off for all the power in the form factor.

[0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XHfCl6-xamM

panpanna• 7 years ago

It is amazing what this tiny company has achieved with minimal resources.

Sometimes I feel someone should buy these guys and put their designers in charge of much bigger things.

(or maybe that's exactly how you kill talent)

emzperx3• 7 years ago

Zoomings been in beta for ages. In the latest fw samples on synth tracks can be <=6 seconds and wav also.

elsherbini2• 7 years ago

Oh great, I need to update then! Is the beta available to test somewhere?

jordache2• 7 years ago

teenage engineering industrial design > Apple industrial design.

reitoei3• 7 years ago

Great... now Apple will buy them, steal their designers and engineers, and run the place into the ground

jordache2• 7 years ago

garage band ver. x with digital version of OP1

Please no!

bitL2• 7 years ago

How does it compare to Novation Circuit (my favorite travel toy) or Deluge?

skybrian• 7 years ago

I guess I'm not in the target market, but how do you play this musical instrument? It looks like it doesn't have much in the way of a keyboard?

brokenmachine• 7 years ago

Looks like a cool product. Couldn't see how much it costs.

Pity it only works with ios. I have one and like a lot of things about Android, but they really dropped the ball with no low-latency audio support.

OP-Z Synthesizer

Related Stories