Kinect by Microsoft Keeps You Entertained Hands Free

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/04/arts/television/04kinect.html?_r=2&hpw

by carterac • 16 years ago

71 46 16 years ago

nytimes.com

tta• 16 years ago

I almost thought this was going to be about Office 2011.

bayareaguy• 16 years ago

I was hoping it was about http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1871608

autarch2• 16 years ago

Kinect sounds like some impressive tech, but it doesn't really sound fun to me. Obviously I'm not the target audience, but I wonder how many people out there want to play games in this manner. It might be a cool novelty, but is it a lasting interaction paradigm?

twidlit• 16 years ago

Im sure it will be. the most important ingredient there is the developer/publisher commitment (its strong)

noisebleed• 16 years ago

The dance game is a pretty ridiculous amount of fun, assuming you like these sorts of things at all. The casual gamer appeal that made the Wii a success is pretty immediately obvious when you see it in action, and they definitely nailed the technology.

That said, the $150 price tag seems a bit steep ($400 with a console). Early sales do look pretty strong, but I'm not entirely convinced this will get more people to buy a 360, especially if they already have a Wii gathering dust.

Personally I'm most interested in the hacks people will inevitably come up with that take advantage of the technology in different contexts.

AndrewS• 16 years ago

I think plenty of people said the same thing about the Wii. It is fun so long as games use the interaction as a constructive part of the game. There are plenty of fun multiplayer games on the Wii that just wouldn't work with traditional controllers.

autarch2• 16 years ago

I had a Wii for a while, and the motion control thing was fun at first, but it wore itself out pretty quickly. I think the thing I appreciated most was the ease of aiming when playing Metroid.

jsz0• 16 years ago

Every major advancement in gaming is bound to leave some people behind. The good thing is at least Microsoft is recognizing there are different types of gamers out there and trying to offering it all on one platform.

chopsueyar2• 16 years ago

I will probably purchase one simply for the navigation capabilities within the XBox's menu system.

I occasionally play games with the 360, but it is mostly used to play media and stream Netflix in HD. (It is connected to an HD projector - 12' diagonal view). Unfortunately, waiving hands in the air while jumping around will block a portion of the projector's path. Sitting on the couch is fine, though.

Can anybody confirm this works with Netflix?

JesseAldridge• 16 years ago

My roommate bought it and invited a bunch of people over. It's actually a lot of fun. More than I thought it would be. Most people seemed hesitant to play... probably because the majority of the games involve waving your arms around like an idiot. It's not quite as bad as that infamous video suggests, but it's still pretty bad.

The motion detection technology is really good. You walk around the room and your avatar moves along with you. You scratch your cheek with your right hand and the character on the screen makes the same general motion.

Voice recognition was mediocre. Had to repeat ourselves a few times, and background noises seemed to screw it up.

Thumbs up, overall.

jonhendry3• 16 years ago

"Voice recognition was mediocre. Had to repeat ourselves a few times, and background noises seemed to screw it up"

Since you're supposed to recalibrate the microphones if you move the furniture in the room, I wouldn't be surprised if a bunch of people moving around the room could cause problems.

tobtoh• 16 years ago

So I guess if you combine Kinect with iOS touch/swipe gestures, you can get the Minority Report interface (without the gloves)!

Not to mention that if Kinect can recognize your face well enough to log you into Xbox Live, then those customized interactive wall adverts from Minority Report can't be too far away either.

tassl• 16 years ago

Even though the global idea sounds great, according to the sensors that they have I don't think that such precision is possible. I am based only in guesses, but with a normal camera, and CMOS sensor (for depth sense using a infrared projector) that have not been calibrated, the software can be able to determine different shapes (bodies) that are moving (background subtraction to detect the velocity, for example) but is not able to have enough precision to even distinguish the different fingers of a hand.

As I said I haven't played or used Kinetic, nor I know the software that is running, but it seems to me that they are parameterizing estimated movements and mapping them into the space of allowed movements of your "avatar".

jonhendry3• 16 years ago

I've seen a claim of 2 cm resolution.

markbao• 16 years ago

I want to see this hacked and be able to connected to my laptop so I can write programs using the Kinect sensor as an input. Think about how wild it would be to write software using a Kinect input as a sensor. For example, you could sit there and wave your hand to move through your email or music or something.

I'm not the only one; Adafruit Industries has a $2,000 bounty for the first Github repo submission that can grab input from the Kinect device and output depth. http://www.adafruit.com/blog/2010/11/04/the-open-kinect-proj...

andrewacove2• 16 years ago

I suspect that Microsoft would love to leverage the Kinect platform as a way to reclaim relevance in mainstream computing. I'm sure that, with enough success, they'll productize it beyond XBox.

I've thought for a long time that a successful Kinect would likely lead to a Kinect-optimized version of Windows.

mahmud2• 16 years ago

reclaim relevance in mainstream computing.

For a certain definition of "mainstream computing".

Since when is MS' platform a niche and its tools marginal? We just had two front-page stories about google suing the U.S. government for its explicit demand for MS technologies.

This is like saying "Toyota better work hard on autonomous vehicles to reclaim relevance in mainstream auto-mobile industry."

rudyfink• 16 years ago

Microsoft did just buy Canesta (http://venturebeat.com/2010/10/29/microsoft-rumored-to-be-bu... ).

jonhendry3• 16 years ago

If modified for close-range operation, it could probably be hooked up to a motorized monitor arm, so that the monitor stays perfectly oriented relative to your face regardless of how you adjust your sitting position or posture.

makmanalp• 16 years ago

I've actually had the chance to play with one of these firsthand, and I must say, I'm quite impressed. The only basis for comparison I have is the wii.

Initially, there is some confusion as to what it is you're supposed to do but after a minute of awkward movement you get the hang of it. This feels much more natural than the wii, and the lack of controller is freeing. The full body movement detection is fun and really encourages you to move around. On the other hand, the sensitivity is not that high. It's okay with the casual games it comes with, but I'd like to see some more examples of, say, shooters.

epochwolf• 16 years ago

You could always give the player a plastic gun with tracking dots and a trigger. :)

dave1619• 16 years ago

My wife and I got this today and it's lots of fun. The motion sensing is really incredible technology, and there could be lots of uses in the future.

grigy• 16 years ago

Turns out the technology is not developed at Microsoft. They are using the PrimeSense chip, which gives the 3D sense to Xbox. Details here: http://eceplayground.com/2010/09/18/how-xbox-kinetic-works

varjag2• 16 years ago

The chip is just a sensor to get the earliest stage of scene decomposition quick. There's tremendous algorithmic work to be done beyond that.

cyanbane• 16 years ago

I have been playing with one for the past 2-3 hours and one thing I am REALLY impressed with is the level at which they have the voice recog. It may just be lots of data they have analyzed from their car kits, but the voice recognition is amazing (no training, multiple people, etc) and much better than I have been witness to inside other auto systems and with Goog411.. As for the visual component, the sensor is already able to pick up minor movements of the hands, if they can get down to finger movements etc I could see this being a huge helper in their auto realm (small distinct finger movement on the steering wheel for channel changing/navigation, etc) . It is an amazing piece of hardware.

mjfern2• 16 years ago

I am hopeful that Kinect is a successful product for Microsoft, but I have some questions.

The Nintendo Wii found success in the market, not solely because of its simple, easy to use controls. In addition to the innovative Wii UI, Nintendo launched a variety of family oriented games that took advantage of the Wii controllers, it had a brand and bevy of characters that it could leverage that resonated with families and kids (e.g., Mario), the Wii console was small and quiet, and the Wii was priced well below the competition.

For Kinect to succeed in the market, Microsoft must introduce a variety of complementary (and compelling) games, it needs to develop a collection of characters and stories that resonate with target customers of the Kinect, and it needs to carefully consider pricing, given that the price of the Xbox 360 plus Kinect (+ additional accessories) could overshoot the comfort level of a majority of consumers, especially in view of the economic recession.

Ultimately, the success of Kinect hinges not only on the Kinect hardware but also on Microsoft's ability to develop a coherent "Kinect strategy" that includes games, characters/stories, branding and marketing, pricing, and so forth. And a key issue is developing a "Kinect strategy" that does not alienate Xbox 360's most important customers, which at present are hardcore gamers. These are the gamers paying for Live and providing the Xbox 360 with the highest (game) attach rate among 7th generation consoles.

fmota• 16 years ago

> ... but I have some questions.

There isn't a single question mark in your comment. There's a difference between questions and remarks.

mjfern2• 16 years ago

Questions as in doubt, hesitation, concern: http://thesaurus.com/browse/questions

Encosia• 16 years ago

> For Kinect to succeed in the market, Microsoft must introduce a variety of complementary (and compelling) games, it needs to develop a collection of characters and stories that resonate with target customers of the Kinect, and it needs to carefully consider pricing, given that the price of the Xbox 360 plus Kinect (+ additional accessories) could overshoot the comfort level of a majority of consumers, especially in view of the economic recession.

Considering how much people continue to spend on the Rock Band accessories - for one game - I don't know that the Kinect's price tag is that significant.

chopsueyar2• 16 years ago

I purchased a Rockband set for 360 from Wal-Mart last Thanksgiving/Christmas sale, brand new, with game, corded drum and mic, and corded guitar for $59.

YMMV.

necubi• 16 years ago

For dissenting opinions, check out Ars Technica's [1] and Engadget's [2] reviews. Both are less enthusiastic, with Ars complaining that the lack of buttons (compared to the Wiimote or Sony's Move) greatly limits gameplay potential.

[1] http://arstechnica.com/gaming/reviews/2010/11/buy-a-house-cl...

[2] http://www.engadget.com/2010/11/04/kinect-for-xbox-360-revie...

henrikschroder2• 16 years ago

More dissent also at Eurogamer:

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2010-11-04-kinect-reviewed...

They bring up the point that you need quite a lot of room for the device to work, you need 2,5m of clear space between the TV and the sofa for two players. And if you don't have that much, don't buy the thing because it won't work well for you.

sriramk• 16 years ago

I'm a MSFT employee but you guys have to take my word that this is a purely unbiased review. :)

I just played the Kinect all evening for the first time. And I'm still in shock - that thing is magical, like the first time I played with the Wii, flicked on an iPhone or got search results instantly from Google.

Few things blew me away

- How intuitive the controls (or lack of thereof) are. You just 'do'. The Wii was like this too but this felt more natural

- Being able to talk to my Xbox. I've never felt voice recognition was ready for mainstream. I was wrong - talking to my TV felt a bit like Star Trek modulo the computer voice.

- How much fun it was. My wife and I had as fun much goofing off by dancing around and playing around as much as competing.

I can't wait to see more games for it.

henrikschroder2• 16 years ago

"How well doeth Xthboxth Kinect'th voith control handle thpeech impedimenth?"

lini• 16 years ago

There will be a special "Igor" version for that. But yeah, I have bluetooth voice integration in my car and I have a tough time trying to make the voice commands work ("call", "setup", etc.), because I am not a native English speaker and have an accent.

pyre• 16 years ago

Apparently if you try to create an open-source driver for this, Microsoft thinks that it's a safety hazard....

  > But Microsoft isn't taking kindly to the bounty offer. "Microsoft does not
  > condone the modification of its products," a company spokesperson told
  > CNET. "With Kinect, Microsoft built in numerous hardware and software
  > safeguards designed to reduce the chances of product tampering. Microsoft
  > will continue to make advances in these types of safeguards and work
  > closely with law enforcement and product safety groups to keep Kinect
  > tamper-resistant."

'product safety groups?'

1: http://www.boingboing.net/2010/11/04/2k-bounty-for-freeop.ht...

2: http://www.adafruit.com/blog/2010/11/04/the-open-kinect-proj...

3: http://news.cnet.com/8301-13772_3-20021836-52.html

electromagnetic• 16 years ago

I think it's a little BS, but a sensor that can track and calculate a persons movements does have some concerning applications if used in the wrong hands. Namely hook a gun into being able to target via the Kinects output and it'll be able to headshot every time.

Considering that 'duck and weave' has greater survival odds than kevlar, a computer that can accurately track it in 3D space is exceptionally creepy for potential autonomous military actions.

Most human marksman have difficulty with this, and via armed drones they're likely less accurate. This could offer a 'push-to-kill' system for military drones.

However, we all know it's because microsoft wants to make money off of all applications for it.

ghurlman• 16 years ago

Lawyers. Sooner or later, someone will plug it in while it's open.

InclinedPlane• 16 years ago

Kinect is definitely disruptive. Which is all the more impressive considering the Wii has been on the market for some time, yet Kinect is not just a Wii motion control imitation (as the Playstation Move is), it's something similar but very different.

It's probably too soon to tell how significant Kinect will end up being, it'll probably be follow-on generations of Kinect games which will prove whether it'll be a game changer or a dud.

mhb• 16 years ago

Specs of interest from http://www.primesense.com/?p=514

Field of View (Horizontal, Vertical, Diagonal): 58° H, 45° V, 70° D

Depth image size: VGA (640x480)

Spatial x/y resolution (@ 2m distance from sensor): 3mm

Depth z resolution (@ 2m distance from sensor): 1cm

Maximum image throughput (frame rate): 60fps

Operation range: 0.8m - 3.5m

Color image size: UXGA (1600x1200)

Data interface: USB 2.0

Power supply: USB 2.0

Power consumption: 2.25W

Dimensions (Width x Height x Depth): 14cm x 3.5cm x 5cm

tocomment• 16 years ago

Will they be relaesing 3rd person shooter/rpg games where your character makes whatever movements you do? You could even walk in place to make him move. Actually pick things up etc.

I think that would be amazing.

icegreentea• 16 years ago

Unfortunately, kinect isn't sensitive enough to detect grasping. You'll notice that kinect navigation, hitting a button relies of hovering your arm in place as a bar fills (there are variations), but there's no 'poke' or 'detect fist' there.

You can dream though.

nlawalker• 16 years ago

Kinect suffers from the same problem that all motion controls do: the technology isn't there to make it really precise and low latency, and that's a big problem for people who have been playing games for a long time and who have come to expect that precision, even for casual games.

It doesn't matter if the games are casual or not - the games aren't fun to me if I feel like I have to devote even a modicum of thought to compensating for the control scheme, or if I feel like there's even a little bit of "luck" involved. It's like how people complain that Mario Party isn't fun because you don't really feel like your skill has much of a bearing on what's going on - I doubt that most people care about being masters of Mario Party, but with even a little bit of luck, it invalidates the experience. It's not about being competitive, it's about the satisfaction of improving and applying a skill. Sure, if I'm drunk and just waving my arms around and my avatar is doing the same, of course it's fun, but without that precision, it's not a "game," it's a "toy." Toys are fine, but I prefer games.

It's crazy to think that we've got these awesome ideas for motion controls and some fairly impressive implementations that were unimaginable even a few years ago, but no way to make them even as close as precise as the control pads, buttons and joysticks that we've had for decades simply by virtue of the fact that they rely on simple digital technology.

EDIT/ADD: What I'm excited for is when the year-long honeymoon period is over and developers start moving beyond the obvious applications. I want to see stuff like two player games where one player has a controller and the other is using their arms to tilt the playfield or control something else, or a game where you have to stand in front of the camera with a controller in your left and and use your body and the stick at the same time.

Kinect by Microsoft Keeps You Entertained Hands Free

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