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HN user
dave1619
iOS and web app development
Handling below average on a Model 3? Really?
I wish Elon would read this article and get some sleep.
Are you doing LCHF (low carb high fat) as well or just IF (intermittent fasting)?
What are the Vista Best Practices? Also what are the “critical factors for success”?
I've owned a Model 3 for over 5 months now with almost 6k miles on it. All I can attest to is my personal experience and the experience of some friends who also own a Model 3. Performance and handling on this car is truly amazing. Autopilot (at least in my personal experience) has been excellent. That said I understand the limitations of Autopilot and keep cautious oversight when it's on. I've head a few minor issues with the car but they are very minor compares to how great the car has been. For example, my trunk is difficult to close. One of the panel pieces was bulging out but service ranger fixed that. And sometimes the car doesn't recognize my phone to start the car, so I need to start it from the app or use the key card. Hopefully Tesla will be able to iron out these issues, and other issues that early owners have had. But I went into it knowing that I'm an early owner and will face some issues on first gen, first year car. All first gen, first year cars have their share of problems.
But overall, I suggest those who seriously want to know what kind of car the Model 3 is, is to test drive the car. And to ask Model 3 owners about the car. The vast, vast majority of Model 3 owners I've talked with tell me the car is truly amazing.
Do you use any phone?
(in no order and i might have left out some)
1. Traveling and living overseas for over half of my twenties. Gave me a world and multi-cultural perspective.
2. Getting emotional healing from an abusive childhood. Gave me confidence to pursue life from a place of healing and peace.
3. Getting married to my wife who I share everything with, including being work partners.
4. Having children which has opened up a whole new aspect of wonder, curiosity and adventure.
You might be waiting 10 years?
http://corporatenews.pressroom.toyota.com/releases/world+mos...
Corolla sales are above 1.2M per year.
The 900k number is Model 3 and Model Y.
I've been invested in TSLA since 2012. And there's always been people saying it's "over-valued", especially the media or folks who don't believe in Tesla's mission or potential. The best thing I've found is to work the numbers a few years out and see what you come up with. Sure, each person's forecasts will be different, but I base my numbers off of company forecasts and also Tesla's track record.
2020 deliveries: 1M vehicles (according to company guidance) Average sale price per vehicle: 900k Model 3 and Model Y x ASP $42k = $37.8B. Plus 110k Model S/X x ASP $90k = $10B. Total revenue $47.8B
Gross margin = 25% (company guidance is 30%+ for Model S/X and "mid-20s" for Model 3/Y).
Gross profit = $12B
Operating expenses = $6B (note: It's difficult to predict operating expenses 3 years out, but Tesla will likely experience a lot of operating leverage as their sales will grow much faster than R&D and sales.)
EBITDA: $6B
P/E multiple: 30 (note: If targets are achieved in 2020, Tesla likely to be growing 50% year in revenue and would likely fetch a 30-40 P/E multiple.)
Market cap: $180B
# shares outstanding: 185M shares (currently 164M outstanding)
2020 stock price = $972
A few comments:
1. The above are my forecasts based on my beliefs that Tesla can reach their own forecasts of # vehicles delivered in 2020 and gross margins.
2. Each person has their own beliefs/ideas of Tesla. So, I'm not trying to convince anyone.
3. This model can be tweaked based on changes in # vehicles delivered, gross margin, or operating expenses... to name a few factors. So, it's not perfect but it gives the basics.
4. If you find someone bearish on TSLA and who thinks it's "overvalued", ask them to give you numbers like I have. Chances are they won't be able to.
5. The Model 3 will be the iPhone moment for autos. A sexy car that redefines transport and brings in high margins. This is why Tesla has potential to be the most valuable company in the world by 2025.
6. Tesla's moat grows as they execute faster than any other auto company. It's not appropriate to value TSLA based on other auto makers. It's like valuing AAPL in 2007 based off of Nokia and Blackberry.
So do you even take a stroller to the zoo?
I think it's probably more just taste. There are plenty of folks who prefer the Tesla interior to BMW/Mercedes/Audi, including myself.
Regarding the Fortune article, I'm not sure if that's an accounting "trick" as it's more of a risk factor. Tesla gave a resale value guarantee on loans starting over 3 years ago which had a clause that the buyer could sell back their cars to Tesla at end of 3 years for a certain guaranteed price. A very small % of people have redeemed this guarantee, showing that Tesla vehicles are holding their resale value very well. This shows there's low risk for a massive financial loss in their resale guarantees to leasing partners. Sure, there's always risk but the risk of Tesla vehicles suddenly losing a ton of value (much more than expected) seems quite slim.
Regarding Solarcity, yes I've seen reports saying they become subsidiary. But Elon has mentioned a few times that Tesla will assume all of Solarcity's debt.
"Gross margin is ~20% excluding ZEV"... where are you getting your data? Have you checked their latest Q3 earnings report?
Here's a quote from their Q3 shareholder letter: "Q3 GAAP Total automotive gross margin was 29.4%, while non-GAAP Automotive gross margin was 25.0% excluding SBC and $139 million of ZEV credit revenue."
source: http://files.shareholder.com/downloads/ABEA-4CW8X0/212351657...
(1) Tesla is aiming for 1 million cars in 2020. At an average price of $45,000/car ($42k for Model 3/Y but higher for Model S/X) that would be $45 billion a year in revenue. And they would still likely be growing fast at that point, with expansion in Europe and Asia.
(2) Current gross margin is 25%, but is trending up as they scale Model X. Model S/X gross margin is likely going to be 30% within a year. Tesla is targeting a gross margin of 25% on Model 3. This gross margin is excluding ZEV credits.
Tesla will soon use up the federal tax incentive ($7500 going to buyer) as they pass their 200,000th car sold in the U.S. But they still will have state and ZEV incentives that aren't depending on the federal government. There is risk with the new administration possibly delaying Tesla's autonomous driving plans.
(4) For cash flow analysis, look at Tesla's most recent Q3 financials. It was a breakthrough quarter, as they are selling 25k cars/quarter (100k cars/year run rate). Financials show that S/X gross profit now covers all operating expenses. And when you deduct depreciation expenses and stock-based compensation, Tesla is actually cash flow positive by a large amount (over $400M just last quarter). They used some of that cash for capex, but still have over $100M left over. Tesla's finances have turned a corner, and they look very positive. For Solarcity, they had good Q3 earnings as well. Looks like Solarcity will not impact cash flow for Tesla in Q4 as Solarcity look to be cash flow positive in Q4. Next year, Solarcity's cash flow is projected to be neutral.
Can you share link to their revenues?
How involved are you and Elon in OpenAI? What are your roles specifically, both for you and Elon?
Awesome, thanks! Just added the URL to my iPhone podcast app.
Most Tesla cars are connected to wifi when parked at home, so that's when data can be uploaded to Tesla's servers.
So, how do you decide where to go next?
By "location-independent" I mean a person doesn't have to be in a certain location to run their business. Meaning, they can run their business from anywhere.
With smartphones, Apple had Blackberry as their competition. But with cars, Apple has Tesla. Completely different.
Agree. The first plan laid out the chronological steps to reach the goal. This second plan is more scattered.
Your point #3 sounds a like lot homeowners, before AirBnb figured out a way to address most of their concerns.
Is this speculation? Or is it grounded in some facts?
Agreed. Apple/Google have a ton of engineers and they must make major improvements to their OS each and every year. The easiest fruit is just to copy what's been successful and incorporate it into the OS itself. The solution is to be better than Apple/Google with your app/business or to be in a niche that Apple/Google doesn't want to get into because it's too small.
I'm not sure if I would call it a mobile "downturn" since mobile is here to stay and may already be more important than desktop. I only see mobile growing, especially with huge numbers of people still to get online via smartphones in India and China. So mobile for sure has a great future ahead. However, there definitely seems to be a maturation of mobile. It's no longer the great "gold rush" that it was back in 2008-2010. It's much more difficult to get traction on native apps if you're starting out, and even if you have a successful app there isn't as much growth in new users as there was prior.
I think one sign of mobile's maturation is that people now see mobile as part of a bigger integrated picture of distribution. For example, it's essential (more than ever) to have a strong strategy to be on mobile, on desktop, and in social channels. I think this makes it more challenging for small startups since they typically don't have the manpower to do everything well. So you've got to prioritize and go with what gives you the most bang for your buck. Sometimes it's mobile; sometimes it's desktop; sometimes it's social.
Looks like we've got some interesting thoughts from Marco.
Seems like he regrets keeping Instapaper a paid app and not making it free to go after marketshare and take on Pocket. He seems to conclude he "lost" against Pocket, and now doesn't want to make the same mistake with Overcast.
I personally don't think the patronage model will go very far. I think he's doing more to make the full app free and gain marketshare, and any money made by "donations" is just bonus. If he can grow his marketshare and get a lot of users, then it looks like he's going to try to raise funds. So, this business model makes sense for now... at least until he's able to raise outside funds.
Overall, Marco seems to be insinuating that the podcast market is bigger than people think, and VC money is going to enter the space; thus, he wants to prepare for that and maximize the potential for his app and the possibility to raise funds and go really big.
It does seem that when VC funds enter a market it presents a challenge to existing indie developers who are making a living with a paid app. The VC-funded company will provide a great app (usually) for free, since they don't need a monetization stream right away. They usually are aiming to build a big audience and then monetize later.
Indie developers are then faced with a decision. How do they compete with VC funded companies? They likely are going to have to either make their app free and go head-to-head with these VC funded companies (and maybe raise money themselves to do so). Or they can narrow their scope and become more niche apps appealing to a more limited audience with high-end (hard-to-copy) features that might not appeal to the masses but to the minority who might pay.
But overall, Marco's blog post does bring up the challenges indie developers face when VC funded companies enter their space.
Would love to hear more thoughts on this.
Can you expand on your tweet that said you don't think selling software is a good business? Why isn't it a good business? What makes it so tough?