Stripe Terminal – Programmable point of sale

by anacleto • 8 years ago

539 217 8 years ago

uptown• 8 years ago

Seems like a no-brainer. I see Square terminals everywhere, so the market seems proven. Anyone know if their pricing is comparable?

adyus2• 8 years ago

I'm not sure what Square charges, but a regular POS from your business bank would be far, far less in percentage for in-person, card-present transactions. I've seen 1.5% figures here in Europe.

So far, Stripe seems to have lowered the fixed fee from 30¢ to 5¢ and dropped 0.2% off their payment gateway fees.

earlz• 8 years ago

I've heard Europe is more reasonable, but at least as of a few years back before Square got so popular, there was a ton of fees to having a bank-owned card reader. Typically required >$1000 deposit just to get the machine, and then a subscription in excess of $200/month, and if I remember correctly, card present transactions were around a 2.5% fee... oh, and that was typically just for Visa and Mastercard. The people I knew with these machines never sprung for the other networks because the price was so expensive. My parents run some small businesses, and credit card machine fees were one of the major line items in their monthly expenses before getting one of those cheap square phone devices back in 2012 or so. Maybe the banks have made things more competitive though now that Square has taken at least some of their business.

dementik• 8 years ago

In EU I work for company taking 0.3% on debit cards and 0.9% for CC. Additional 0.02€ per transaction.

m_coder• 8 years ago

I use Square all day every day here at my pet store. The killer feature for Square is the consistent pricing. There are no add on fees and no clowning around. You get the same 2.75 percent on (almost) every transaction and it builds a lot of trust. There are a few cards where it goes up a little but not enough to bother me.

TomMarius2• 8 years ago

Stripe is well known for the same

mootrichard• 8 years ago

Edit: (I work at Square)

2.5% +$.10 https://squareup.com/us/en/developers/reader-sdk

dopamean2• 8 years ago

I'm not sure what they mean by creating a "unified experience" and I'm not sure I understand what exactly can be customized.

cosn9• 8 years ago

(I work at Stripe)

The end consumer will have a seamless experience between paying online and offline -- think buy things online, return in-store (or vice-versa). Your customers can initiate a subscription in-store that continues online with Stripe Billing. You will have all your reporting -- for both online and in-person transactions -- within the Stripe Dashboard. In terms of customization, we think our new SDKs will make it really easy for you to build the right checkout experience for your business. Also, you’ll be able to customize some aspects of the reader display (e.g., logos, color theme, splash screen, etc.).

dopamean2• 8 years ago

This makes sense. Thanks for clarifying.

rubynerd2• 8 years ago

R.E. "unified experience", this slots so cleanly into Stripe's stable of products: all of your reporting would be available in Sigma, all of your fraud data available in Radar, and with a little magic in the SDK side, all of your customer data available (unified) in Stripe's database.

Imagine if you're running a web store, and you want to go to a conference or convention or something and start selling your stuff there. All of your tools still work, all of your reporting still works, and crucially your accounting flow remains identical.

The customisation options are probably up in the air right now - I imagine developers won't get the ability to customise the UI available on the PIN pad in the first release, but I imagine that's where they want to get to.

cosn9• 8 years ago

(I work at Stripe)

I imagine developers won't get the ability to customise the UI available on the PIN pad in the first release

Actually, you'll be able to configure the splash screen in the first release, and will open up more hooks over time

docker_up10• 8 years ago

A shot across the bow against Square. This will be very interesting. Payments has always been a race to the bottom, I wonder how quickly rates will drop for POS payment providers now that Stripe is going after that business and directly against Square.

tyingq4• 8 years ago

I'm surprised either Square or Stripe would do well in the "card present" space. 2.9% + 30 cents is pretty big markup if you're "card present".

Edit: See comment below, apparently the 30 cents is now 5 cents for card present. Helpful, though doesn't necessarily close the whole gap, depending on transaction mix.

Zombieball• 8 years ago

Could you clarify? Is this markup only on card present transactions?

mikesickler• 8 years ago

For low value, high volume merchants, Square's rate is extremely competitive.

jacobn• 8 years ago

From the landing page: "In-person payment processing: 2.7% + 5¢"

(may be getting A/B tested if you're seeing something different?)

pbreit7• 8 years ago

Square is 2.75% with no fixed fee. This is by far the best rate you can get for low amount charges and why Square enabled an entire new category of credit card merchants like fast food.

password037• 8 years ago

card present fees are vastly different (lower) than not present, and there is usually no fixed fee.

edwinwee2• 8 years ago

I work at Stripe. This isn't really competitive with Square—very different customers.

docker_up10• 8 years ago

I worked in payments. Respectfully, you really shouldn't be talking on behalf of Stripe.

It's clear that a card present product, which I believe is new for Stripe, is in direct competition with Square. Even if right now it's not being marketed towards the same customer base as Square, it's clear that with a few tweaks of the app plus a change in the manufacturing process, you could easily create Square-like POS systems. Why would Stripe leave out such a huge, proven market when it's clear this product is a stepping stone towards full POS systems?

csytan2• 8 years ago

Could you clarify? I'm guessing you mean..

Square: Small/individual merchants, Etsy style physical shops, trade shows, etc.

Stripe: large retailers, grocery stores, stores with many locations etc.

spamizbad• 8 years ago

I work in payments... I regret to inform you/proudly announce that you now compete with Square, just one-step removed.

anontechworker• 8 years ago

I work at Square for what it’s worth..I disagree. Stripe set out to create the perfect payments service. Square set out to create the perfect physical POS. The next logical step for both companies is to spread out in the market more. We’re going to bump heads sooner or later being in the same industry.

danielx• 8 years ago

And PayPal with their announced purchase of iZettle

dawhizkid• 8 years ago

I also thought it was a race to the bottom, but the rising valuations of payments companies is telling me otherwise.

docker_up10• 8 years ago

All tech companies are rising. It's similar to the dotcom boom in my opinion where all tech stocks went up and everyone thought they were stock picking geniuses. Don't attribute it to anything more than this.

All it takes is for a single payment provider to start dropping rates and it will follow. Right now there hasn't been one yet, because they're know it's mutually-assured destruction. But if someone can get a handle on fraud rates, they can cut the rates down to very thin margins and work off a volume.

password037• 8 years ago

It is a race to the bottom.

Payment processing has become so commoditised that you need huge scale.. see the Worldpay/Vantiv merger.

What Square and Stripe are doing is adding value and simplifying the complexities around payments. They will only be able to rinse small merchants with the high fees who need the equipment also (can't afford bespoke systems).

The larger tier one retailers get payments for near zero fees as they are literally just consuming the processing and they bring their own system/hardware/management.

osrec3• 8 years ago

I really hope they have a web based API, not requiring a native app. If they do, we would love to use them for our PWA (https://usebx.com) as a bunch of customers ask for this regularly.

adyus2• 8 years ago

It appears there's a Javascript SDK listed as available.

osrec3• 8 years ago

I think that really separates them from the rest. With everyone else, you need a native app to integrate with their terminal. Stripe offering this is really very cool!

rebelidealist• 8 years ago

Their js api only works for the bulkier Verizon Reader.

blattus• 8 years ago

(I work at Stripe)

Yes -- we have both native APIs (iOS and soon Android), and a web based API (JavaScript). Our JavaScript SDK is designed for you to easily extend an existing web-based application to enable in-person payments.

osrec3• 8 years ago

Great! Any idea when you're launching in the UK?

foobaw2• 8 years ago

Competition is good I guess...

omarforgotpwd• 8 years ago

Using Verifone hardware? I'd rather just use Square. Nothing wrong with using both Square and Stripe for credit card processing.

cosn9• 8 years ago

(I work at Stripe)

We currently support two devices and will add support for more in the months to come. Please request an invite and let us know if there are particular hardware devices you are interested in us supporting.

ambicapter• 8 years ago

How does the hardware work with the web SDK? I didn't think it was possible to interface with hardware from a browser.

nickjj• 8 years ago

Pretty interesting. I wonder if this is going to eventually turn into something comparable to Shopify's hardware POS offerings[0].

[0] https://www.shopify.com/pos/features#hardware

csytan2• 8 years ago

It's interesting to see:

- Square become Stripe, while Stripe becomes Square

- Stripe owning the whole user experience in purchasing

- If they own the physical end points, will they eventually cut out credit card companies? You can already see that they are pushing for collecting emails with checkout.js. The first step is to have direct contact with the end user.

- If they cut out credit card companies, what's to stop them from moving into personal payments (e.g. Square Cash, Venmo) and then banking?

n3d1m• 8 years ago

Nothing stopping them. And I wish they would. The MC/Visa duopoly needs to be disrupted.

Silhouette• 8 years ago

The MC/Visa duopoly needs to be disrupted.

Yes, but not by anything even vaguely resembling credit cards as we know them today. The whole system is insecure, inefficient and unreliable by design, and the credit aspect introduces an extra level of legal and financial mess, particularly for those people who just want a convenient payment method but don't actually need to defer settlement. Card payments may be the perfect example of the dangers of monopolies and oligopolies.

Sir_Cmpwn• 8 years ago

What, and replaced with another monopoly?

jjeaff14• 8 years ago

nothing is stopping them.

I'm guessing their Network agreements with Visa and MasterCard would stop them. You could issue a stripe card that only works with stripe merchants. But I can't imagine visa allowing their imprint on a card that can both process anywhere AND be used to slowly cut visa out of the picture.

dna_polymerase2• 8 years ago

Maybe you should take a look at the hard numbers before you talk about cutting out the CC companies.

Paypal is leading the game and they are not able to cut out CC companies.

jrockway• 8 years ago

I don't see much Paypal deployment in the physical world. The only place I've ever seen the option to pay with Paypal is at Home Depot. (I didn't try it because it sounded like you had to log in with your password and second factor... which did not sound like a good use of time in the checkout line.)

dannyw• 8 years ago

I’m confused. I pay with PayPal balance all the time.

docker_up10• 8 years ago

You can't cut out the cc companies. Both Stripe and Square are riding on their rails. The best they can do is try to negotiate the rates down and either keep a higher percentage for themselves or pass on the savings to their customers.

wbronitsky4• 8 years ago

I think the interesting idea is what happens when you use a Stripe issued card[0] on a Stripe API powered terminal. The system, somewhere, will know it is a Stripe card based off the number, but I'm willing to bet the CC networks are protected from being cut out. At least for now.

Great job team! Looking forward to more of this in the future \o/

[0] https://stripe.com/issuing

BillinghamJ4• 8 years ago

Yeah, you can. I'd expect PSD2 legislation will all-but destroy CC companies across the EU within 3 years (just for online use initially).

Strong Customer Authentication (SCA) requirements coming into force in Sept 2019 are making card payments increasingly unattractive.

Payment Initiation (via PISPs, which Stripe undoubtedly will become) will offer free, instant, seamless push-based payments where fraud is essentially impossible (and the merchant isn't liable anyway).

Imagine having Cuvva's payment button pop you out to the Monzo app, hit accept, then immediately pop back and have paid. No card networks or fees involved. Just a simple Faster Payment directly from the customer's bank account to ours.

For in-person payments, I'd imagine a similar arrangement could be facilitated via Apple Pay.

May take non-EU countries a while to follow, but they surely will eventually. The days of CC companies are numbered.

lefrancaiz• 8 years ago

They're still one step away from Square. This is Stripe Terminal and not Stripe POS. This competes more with Square Reader SDK. If I remember correctly Square Reader SDK only launched fairly recently.

Your point is still valid, but I just wanted to point out that building a POS like Square is a different beast.

rossdavidh9• 8 years ago

I'm sure they've thought about it. However, as others have found, getting through the amount of fraud out there with a margin less than the ~3% that credit card companies charge, is really hard. I mean if you were perfect that would be 3% profit. If your uncaught fraud rate is even a few percent higher than that of companies who have been doing this for a long time, you will be bleeding money.

Again, I'm sure they've thought of it, but the credit card companies are actually pretty good at a very hard task, which is enabling super-easy and quick payment verification without getting eaten alive by fraud.

jimnotgym3• 8 years ago

without getting eaten alive by fraud.

Because fraudulent use of cards is charged back to the merchant, the card companies are less exposed to it than you might imagine.

Where they are exposed is if a merchant goes bankrupt without delivering, and the purchase was on credit card. The merchant account holder would then be liable

kondro• 8 years ago

The average card present transaction charge in Australia for scheme cards is less than 1.5%, even for small turnover merchants. With higher turnover businesses getting to about 1%.

Banks don’t need to charge 3% to deal with fraud. Merchant agreements effectively make it their responsibility to bear the brunt of any chargebacks anyway.

segmondy4• 8 years ago

The card brands are nothing more but a network. That's it. They have no skin in the game. All fraudulent charges move like this

card issuer(bank) ---> processor (square) ------> merchant

mmckelvy• 8 years ago

I've always thought fraud would be much more preventable if credit card companies would simply send you a text or verification code each time your card was charged, or require a PIN.

It seems this is difficult for the big credit card companies and banks (which is why it hasn't happened), but I wonder if it might be easier for Stripe to incorporate something like this into their Issuing product.

jacurtis• 8 years ago

I am continuously shocked by the amount of defense that people have towards Stripe. I remember mentioning Stripe's 3% fee being too high for me the other day at a community event and I was attacked by people defending Stripe and their fee. These are people that don't work there, and have no true involvement with them (other than using their APIs).

Sorry everyone, but you really don't understand that Stripe's position is literally the middleman of everything. Their "product" is the API. Simplifying and unifying what the various processors have done and marketing the hell out of it.

That 3% fee that everyone defends is truly almost pure profit for them. I currently work with another payment processor (one of the top three largest in the world) and our credit card fees are measured in basis points. For those that don't know... a basis point is one-hundredth of a percent. The fees we are charged by our processor isn't even whole percentage points, it is measured in basis points. Granted it is more complicated because there are different fees for AMEX, Mastercard, Visa, etc. But it is still all totaled out to fractions of a percent.

Keep in mind that my credit processor is still making money while charging me in basis points (and they have way more employees than Stripe does). Stripe is a competitor to this processor. So if this processor makes money charging fees in basis points, than Stripe could make money charging in basis points too.

And before people think that I work for Walmart. I'll just say we charge about 2M a month in credit cards which is relatively small.

I promise that Stripe is doing very well off their 3% charge. I am not saying that they aren't allowed to make good money, but I really hate when people defend them like they are barely scraping by. Stripe is laughing their way to the bank with your 3% processing fee. They laugh even harder when they read you defending their outrageous fees.

plumeria2• 8 years ago

We are in a country where Stripe isn't available and pay 5.5% to our local processor here (and no fixed fee). So yes 3% is pretty good. They also offer custom pricing depending on your business model (e.g. micropayments).

GordonS• 8 years ago

If they own the physical end points, will they eventually cut out credit card companies?

I seem to recall a story on HN around 6 months ago about Mastercard (might have been Visa) becoming an investor in Stripe, so I they'll do whatever they need to to keep Stripe in check.

eastbayjake• 8 years ago

It was Visa: http://fortune.com/2015/07/28/stripe-visa/

pbreit7• 8 years ago

I can't help but think Square ceded the online space to Stripe despite that probably 50% or more of Square's merchants process online with another vendor.

oneplusone• 8 years ago

I believe Stripe's original plan when they applied to YC was to start a bank.

andromedavision• 8 years ago

Absolutely great. This industry(card processing - esp. in person) is mired by a ton of ambiguity and it would take a company like Stripe to open it up to innovation. Cannot wait to see what comes out of this from the ecosystem.

password037• 8 years ago

I couldn't agree more.

Up to now it has been near impossible for third party solutions to end up on terminals. I've seen these new Verifone terminals and they are awesome. I can't wait to see what comes of these.

pg_bot• 8 years ago

Looks awesome, already requested an invite and can't wait to put it in practice.

The next thing that I really want from Stripe is an API for the analytics they generate. I would love to be able to display the data that they are already showing in their web application via something like their elements library. I want my customers to have a better sense of how their business is doing, without having to duplicate the work that Stripe is already doing.

dbbk• 8 years ago

I think this must exist? I know you can push the Stripe analytics data to Databox.

philip1209• 8 years ago

Starting a subscription in-person seems like a game-changer.

Also, attribution of in-store purchases to marketing efforts is so hard. I bet Stripe could help with this, e.g. starting with email address, or tying an online account to an in-person transaction.

sbashyal• 8 years ago

We have developed a POS for salons and spa and have been working with various in-store payment solutions - including Square. None of the existing solutions meet our needs.

I have applied for an invite - can't wait to get access.

cosn9• 8 years ago

(I work at Stripe)

Excited to review your application! We have a lot of users building point of sale applications for booking and scheduling -- including AtVenu, Mindbody, Universe, Zenoti.

dnlsandiego• 8 years ago

How likely are startups who are still building out a platform get approved for beta access? And should startups add that info in the beta request form?

jf• 8 years ago

"People who are really serious about software should make their own hardware." - Alan Kay

coreyrab• 8 years ago

Wondering if this could enable use-cases for in-person subscription selling. I.e. selling SaaS/subscription content at conferences and tradeshows.

nateb415• 8 years ago

(I work at Stripe)

Yes this is one of the use cases we are excited for users to bring to market utilizing Stripe Terminal. If you also use Stripe Billing, you can help your customers initiate a subscription in-person.

taherchhabra2• 8 years ago

Is it possible to build this use case: identifing the user using face recognition during checkout and processing payments based on his card stored in the system. Also is it possible to export the purchase data to other systems via API. So as to enable e-commerce style data analytics/customer engagement for brick and mortar retailers

wastedhours• 8 years ago

This will be interesting as well in the consumer space.

Subscribe to lunch from your local deli for example, walk in, call your order, tap the card to verify you're the subscriber, walk out.

Or pay on demand gyms. Tap in on the card reader to either pay for a single session, or validate you're the subscriber, no extra gym card required.

jarboot• 8 years ago

I wonder if Stripe or Venmo will be the first to get QR payments going in the US.

tomjakubowski• 8 years ago

CurrentC was created a merchant consortium to push barcode payments (as seen at CVS, I think?) and didn't get anywhere. It's not clear to me why you'd want to use a barcode rather than NFC a la Apple Pay.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merchant_Customer_Exchange

neivin• 8 years ago

The likelihood of QR payments taking off in North America is slim. People love credit cards. They offer way too much.

This model worked in China because people went from using cash to mobile.

We've been using credit cards forever and there's literally no incentive for me to use an app like Venmo/Square Cash over my Chase credit card which gives me points/miles

password037• 8 years ago

It is simple as this and I have seen the research.

The west loves tapping and the east loves scanning (AliPay / WePay)

joshuakelly• 8 years ago

We've been participating in this trial. Happy to answer questions about it.

jimmy1• 8 years ago

Can you give out any more details? Can this replace a restaurant POS system like Micros, Aloha, Digital Dining, et all? My brother is a restaurant owner and is struggling with one of those scummy legacy POS systems and I am trying to help him out of it -- even to the point of rolling an open source POS system out for him

matdehaast• 8 years ago

I am naive in this space, could some explain what is keeping the duopoly of Visa/MasterCard going?

chipotle_coyote• 8 years ago

While I haven't done a lot of research in this area, I would suspect launching a new credit card company is just a massive amount of work, very different from launching a new web app. You're obviously going to be subject to a lot of banking and capital regulations; you're either going to have to be starting an actual bank or you're going to have to partner with (at least) one, for instance. Then you have to figure out how to get businesses to start accepting you. "This card works everywhere that happens to have a Square-based point of sale system" is not going to get you to be the next Visa. It's not even going to get you to be the next Discover.

While Simple was trying to launch a new bank, not a CC processor, their experience is probably informative here -- they're successful by some measures, but they failed at disrupting the industry the way they wanted to. (I'm a Simple customer and have been on the edge of switching back to a conventional bank for over a year; it's mostly just inertia that keeps me there.)

jerrysievert• 8 years ago

While I haven't done a lot of research in this area, I would suspect launching a new credit card company is just a massive amount of work

there's a Futurama episode that has a snarky commentary on this - s01e06:

fry: "Do you take Visa?" clerk: "Visa hasn't existed for five hundred years." fry: "American Express?" clerk: "Six hundred years." fry: "Discover Card?" clerk: "Hmm...sorry, we don't take Discover."

iwaffles2• 8 years ago

We spent a lot of time building a terminal at Sidestep on top of Stripe (and a few other processors). Everything on the in-person payment level was done through an iOS or Android device. The hardest part wasn't managing devices (they could log in on almost any device), but the hardware integration for accepting credit cards. It exists in various places, but none of it could do exactly what we wanted to do. CardFlight was the closest to being a stripe friendly api for swiping cards. Usually the devices for swiping cards were too expensive and the failure rate was high. I don't think swiping hardware has gone down, unless you're using Square.

But hardware costs aside, the ability to fully integrate with the API on a terminal level is the most powerful thing here. It allows for so many cool POS integrations like the one we building at Sidestep.

To me, the coolest thing about this is that it supports Stripe Connect so you can create a POS that's used by others without having to deal with any money transfer yourself. Customer swipes card -> your software -> client's bank account.

foobaw2• 8 years ago

how much fee is collected like this? Stripe Connect takes a fee, Stripe Terminal takes a fee, etc.

iwaffles2• 8 years ago

I don't think the fees stack like that. The terminal page says 2.7% + $0.05 per transaction. I believe that Stripe Connect doesn't take an extra fee, at least not in my experience.

browsercoin• 8 years ago

wha are some "cool POS integrations" ? what use cases do you for see making a big splash with this?

cosn9• 8 years ago

(I work at Stripe)

We are excited about the use cases of Connect platforms integrating Stripe Terminal! We have seen a lot of platforms like AtVenue and Mindbody building an end-to-end solution for their users -- completely on Stripe.

thedangler• 8 years ago

Of course Canada left out again. lol

NeighboringOwl• 8 years ago

Hiya, I work at Stripe. We want to make sure that Stripe Terminal supports the major in-person payment methods in market. As you know, Interac is really important in Canada, and we're working on adding support for that. Stay tuned!

mrwnmonm• 8 years ago

Does stripe has the world best designers? Just wow.

orliesaurus2• 8 years ago

I am working with a company that has small physical stores processing hundreds of payments every day... and having to rely on all the existing crappy hardware for taking payments is a pain in the a$$.. this looks like it could change the game - I'm applying for invite and see what happens next

taurath• 8 years ago

Which is strange, because it seems to me a consumer that there's been an explosion in POS systems that offer any featureset under the sun. Are the backend systems just all wonky?

orliesaurus2• 8 years ago

Some folks have really old hardware/software systems because the people that set them up initially (think 5-10 years ago) didnt probably feel confident with the newer vendors or maybe were incentivized to use the more older crappy systems that are more reliable but less customizable/hookable

objclxt• 8 years ago

having to rely on all the existing crappy hardware for taking payments is a pain in the a$$

This is the same crappy hardware. Look at the page - it's Verifone terminals. It's an app based POS that communicates to standard POS card readers, so the same hardware. This is unlike Square, who built their own hardware.

dandigangi• 8 years ago

Side note on the design - Absolutely love how well they do with keeping depth on flat design elements. Stripe design team always does such good work.

DenisM2• 8 years ago

So, no need to worry about PCI compliance, right?

aembleton• 8 years ago

Well you're not holding credit card details, so no there should be no need to worry about PCI.

DenisM2• 8 years ago

I was hoping to hear that from Stripe. The word PCI is nowhere on the headline page.

jwiley• 8 years ago

Can someone clarify what the use-case is for this new functionality? I've regularly used POS stripe devices based on iPads, is the idea this allows Stripe to be used on proprietary POS devices?

cosn9• 8 years ago

(I work at Stripe)

Stripe Terminal gives developers the flexibility to build custom point of sale applications that use the Stripe payments platform, with EMV-ready hardware. The product will be work across the entire suite of Stripe products (Billing, Radar, Sigma etc.), and we’ll provide native SDKs across several languages.

herova• 8 years ago

Living in Russia i every time wondering why Stripe or square companies exist. We have batch of banks which doing this card acquiring, mobile phone operators who made pos terminals with internet connection and online tax services. And now i see stripe pos like back in years ago. Wtf.

treelovinhippie• 8 years ago

Some ideas:

1) Flash up a QR code (and/or NFC) on the device to allow for crypto payments/buy/sell.

2) Flash up a QR code (and/or NFC) to sell custom store tokens or loyalty points.

densone2• 8 years ago

anyone know if it will support pre-auth .. I own a nightclub and this would be clutch. I saw they have a preauth endpoint. But, can I preauth for $1 and capture $100

IloveHN84• 8 years ago

Can it be also hacked?

Stripe Terminal – Programmable point of sale

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