Some MacBook Pro users complain about throttling issues

https://techcrunch.com/2018/07/19/some-macbook-pro-users-complain-about-throttling-issues/

by AnatMl2 • 8 years ago

81 147 8 years ago

techcrunch.com

ancorevard• 8 years ago

Looking forward to the day when Apple will dump Intel and ship its own "A chip" in the MacBooks.

spamizbad• 8 years ago

The thermal overhead of x86 instruction decoding isn’t holding these machines back.

coldtea13• 8 years ago

No, but Intel's failed promise to keep total thermal output down in the last 3 generations did.

They failed their TDP and die shrink projections when those machines were designed.

So, Apple would have had to redesign the whole case to match the new reality (which they could, but for their kind of redesigns it takes more time and people were already complaining about the lack of a 32GB option).

kevin_b_er2• 8 years ago

All indicators point to that being the day you will be required to only run apps from the official Apple App Store, unless you pay for a developer cert like for iOS devices.

Endama• 8 years ago

I feel like Apple is making similar mistakes that Microsoft made a few decades back, its walled garden has become so ubiquitous that they assume that there isn't any trimming that needs to be done. Specifically,Macs are basically the only FreeBSD-based machine with a consumer-friendly interface (ironically this may no longer be true once Windows gets first-party linux support).

However, issues like these make me resentful that my day-to-day is dependent on OSX. I hope that some other competitor really steps into the currently (admittedly slim) hole in the market that is growing between professional users and the average Macbook user.

EDIT: corrected my mistake about linux!

foldr• 8 years ago

Macs are basically the only Linux-based machine [...]

Macs aren't Linux-based.

Rapzid• 8 years ago

Macs aren't Linux based, they are BSD based and that's not even being pedantic.

glup3• 8 years ago

OP probably meant POSIX-compliant

nothrabannosir• 8 years ago

Macs are basically the only Linux-based machine with a consumer-friendly interface …

Someone will point this out sooner or later, so I might as well do it ;)

Macs are neither Linux, nor the only. Mac OS X is based on FreeBSD. Linux machines usually come with GNU tools, and BSD have their own set, with subtle differences causing no end of confusion for the up and coming developers :) sed, grep, ls, etc. All slightly different interfaces (this is why brew offers a package to install the GNU version of all those tools, iirc “gnuutils” ?). The kernel itself is completely different, of course.

Android, however, would fit that description quite well.

jolux• 8 years ago

it's "brew install coreutils" these days :)

zeveb2• 8 years ago

You really ought to give real Linux (or a non-macOS BSD) a try: it's remarkably friendly, and customisable. We're professionals; we need to adapt our tools to ourselves, and Linux affords one some very tempting capabilities for just that.

As an example, I use a tiling window manager; I have the same theme used by my WM, my console & my editor; my entire computing interface is as minimal and distraction-free as possible. I simply couldn't get it this clean on anything other than Linux or BSD.

komali24• 8 years ago

Which window manager? Been thinking of leaving gnome+all the everything it comes with behind.

tomovo• 8 years ago

Almost feels like they are making things worse on purpose to make the ARM transition truly justified for everyone.

Ambroos2• 8 years ago

To be honest, Apple's MBP CPU upgrades have never been worth it. They are advertised with these big turbo frequency increases that are rarely ever achieved. Even the base frequency doesn't matter because they'll clock far lower if needed to save battery life.

For both the 13" and 15" MacBook Pro's, the performance differences between the base and upgraded CPUs are negligible (always less than 10% increase from the slowest to the fastest CPU for the same size, according to Geekbench). You'll get a higher frequency for a tiny amount of time before thermal throttling brings everything down to the same level anyway. They are not limited by Intel's software settings but purely by the cooling hardware.

For example, the cheapest 13" MBP from 2017 has a 2.3Ghz base / 3.6Ghz turbo and scores 9079. Most expensive one (3.5Ghz / 4.0Ghz) scores 9552. That is an increase under 6% for a price difference that is far, far larger. Madness.

If you buy a MacBook, please don't spend money on CPU upgrades. Thanks.

caycep• 8 years ago

by that measure, I have always never been enthusiastic about discrete GPU's and the extra heat/battery drain. I hope external GPU's become commonplace, inexpensive and reliable

lkramer• 8 years ago

I don't own a Mac, so I'm asking out of curiosity, but does this apply when it's plugged in as well?

dep_b• 8 years ago

Yes, it's mainly a heat issue.

Ambroos2• 8 years ago

Yes, the cause for throttling is only thermal as long as your battery is over ~5% charged.

In fact, while charging performance might even be a bit lower because charging the battery generates some heat as well, further lowering performance.

JohnTHaller• 8 years ago

With the new i9, it doesn't matter if it is plugged in. The cooling setup in the laptop is just inadequate to keep it running at speed for more than a couple minutes according to David Lee and other tech reviewers.

geoelectric2• 8 years ago

The trick with that is that stores carry two setups, generally: stripper base setup and omg everything setup. It's kind of like buying a new car that way. And, of course, the grand majority of it cannot be upgraded after the fact.

You can custom order, of course, but if your goal is to take it home today it's difficult to, say, get an upgraded graphics card or more (soldered) memory or larger (soldered or buried) onboard storage without also getting the CPU upgrade with it.

virtualritz• 8 years ago

I am just flabbergasted. Apple is ruining the MacBook brand with every update they release. My 2017 MBP keyboard is ready for the mandatory replacement. The power brick has no 'ears' and the cable no clip for safe transport any more. USB C only means I always have a bunch of adapters dangling from my laptop that make it look like a bad attempt at adding some 'cyberpunk' feel to it. And now they finally upgrade the MBP hardware and then this?!

coldtea13• 8 years ago

I am just flabbergasted. Apple is ruining the MacBook brand with every update they release.

Yeah, first by not releasing "MBPs with 32GB RAM" and then by releasing them.

They can never get a chance...

USB C only means I always have a bunch of adapters dangling from my laptop

Or, you know, just buy USB-C to whatever cables and be done with it. It's like a $50 investment for a $2000+ laptop, if having an adapter is so much of a problem.

I have USB-C to A, USB-C to that bizarro USB B BS 2.5 external hard disks have, USB-C to lighting, and USB-C to HDMI. End of story, no adapters to carry. YMMV.

komali24• 8 years ago

Do you mean USBC male to HDMI male? What about when you need to plug into the office HDMI projector?

anuragsoni2• 8 years ago

I don't think that buying adapters is the biggest issue here. Personally for me it starts to become a question about the compromise I'd need to make on a laptop that is really expensive. I don't see $50 adapter as an investment on a Macbook when there are really high quality alternatives that satisfy my use case just as well. But then again, all of this is really subjective and every body will have a different set of requirements that they value!

falcolas2• 8 years ago

An adapter by any other name is still an adapter. The chips are simply smaller than they were in the past.

Of course, if you look back in the past by only a few years, you would have been in a time where none of those adapters were even necessary with a MacBook Pro. And there are other models of computer (of comparable capabilities) where they're not even necessary today.

It's also probably good that you don't try and carry a USB-C to USB-C cable, since it would probably be out of spec for some use of USB-C.

function_seven3• 8 years ago

I have USB-C to A, USB-C to that bizarro USB B BS 2.5 external hard disks have, USB-C to lighting, and USB-C to HDMI. End of story, no adapters to carry. YMMV.

You listed the four adapters you have, then said "no adapters". :) Just because the adapter is more than 3" long doesn't make it something else. You still have to buy it separately and carry it with you. When a machine has more than just one kind of port, you're freed up to use whatever standard cable is already connected to the projector, or came with the hard disk, or was included with your phone.

whywhywhywhy2• 8 years ago

YMMV

My 2014 13" retina MBP can plug 2 USB devices 2 Thunderbolt devices a HDMI screen and power

If I go all USB-C my 2017 13" can plug screen and power anything more and I need to use dongles and from what I see looking around the offices I visit, most people end up using dongles.

MBPs have been USB-C only for years now and a dongle free future is still nowhere in sight, I'm starting to feel USB-C is going to be forever a dongle port.

cageface2• 8 years ago

My 2017 MBP keyboard is also starting to go, and I really can't be without a machine for a week while they fix it. I was going to bite the bullet and upgrade to the new model but with this throttling issue I don't see much point. At this point I'd happily trade this machine back for my MBP 2015.

I'm seriously considering buying a Windows laptop for the first time in almost a decade.

noir_lord5• 8 years ago

For what a reasonable spec Macbook Pro costs you can get a high spec T480 or T580 w/4k display.

They run Linux well if you want that *nix goodness.

gaius• 8 years ago

I'm seriously considering buying a Windows laptop for the first time in almost a decade

I can highly recommend Surface. W10 + WSL beats OSX + VirtualBox handily for dev work. Great keyboard, great screen too.

itsdrewmiller• 8 years ago

They all but encourage you to buy another macbook and then return it while they are doing repairs, fwiw.

ajross• 8 years ago

I'm torn. On the one hand, much of this complaining seems a bit much. These remain pretty solid devices, albeit maybe not as world-leading as they used to be, and at a price point that is hard to justify based on features.

On the other, it's absolutely hilarious given the history of this community. Those of us with Linux-running Thinkpads remain ready to receive you guys. Seriously: it's pretty nice over here.

peterangular• 8 years ago

Yep - 100% agree. Y'all should come to the dark side and get yourselves a refurb Thinkpad.

Personally I run a 2017 MBP for work and a heavily modified T430 running Debian at home. I often miss my personal hardware throughout the workday - having USB ports, ethernet, different display ports, and swappable batteries is invaluable. The OS differences are huge too - OSX is just not my cup-o-tea when it comes to package managers (brew sucks vs. aptitude), running a development environment, and even just running simple *nix binaries (there are significant differences with the OSX versions).

trash_panda• 8 years ago

Exactly! Those that were disenchanted by Linux in the past should really give it a try every now and then. If the current status doesn't fit your needs, fine! But keep believing in the project. It is constantly improving and what may be a hassle today tomorrow it could be as good as your Mac.

I know that some things may "just work" on the Apple ecosystem, but don't forget that you are paying a lot of money to get that ecosystem working and from all the complaining I'm reading It doesn't seem like a totally smooth experience at all.

edit: words, format.

IdontRememberIt• 8 years ago

Thinkpad (X1 carbon) with Windows 10 make also a fantastic couple. Honestly, Windows 10 Pro has so many shortcuts and tools that it makes it super powerful to use. And now that we can do a thresome with Ubuntu... It is really a dream comes true.

40acres• 8 years ago

I was in the market for a laptop last year. My choices dwindled to the 2017 MBP and Dell XPS 13, due the price increase and reviews of the touch bar I decided against the MBP. And due to quality issues I also decided against the XPS. I ended buying a 2015 (or whatever the previous model was) MBP and it's been working great. Seems in hindsight like a solid choice.

whywhywhywhy2• 8 years ago

I found the removal of the cable pegs and only including the long charging cable a particularly tacky way to reduce the BOM on their computer considering the USB-C model had a price increase over the previous model that included these features.

personlurking2• 8 years ago

My 2015 MB battery only lasts 45 min at best, and the percentage icon turns red sometimes at 50% remaining charge, and MB turns off at 20% often. I looked into replacing it but was told I'll have to shell out around $500 cause batteries alone can't be swapped out anymore.

Meanwhile my 2011 MBA (w/ a cheap replaceable battery) lasted 7 years before I sold it on to someone else, still in working order.

Between the two anecdotes above is a huge difference.

chendragon2• 8 years ago

Here in Canada Apple charges about $250 CAD to change the set of battery/topcase in a MBP Retina 13 from 2015. I think that's not a bad price considering you get a new keyboard, casing, and trackpad.

geoelectric2• 8 years ago

$200 in the US for a Pro, $130 for an Air. Their price list is online. You might check your country-specific site and see if the same is true.

https://support.apple.com/mac/repair/service

It's pricy, for sure, but I assume that also includes the cost of a new OEM battery which usually isn't especially cheap.

runesoerensen4• 8 years ago

When the first touch bar MBP was released I quickly got fed up by all the USB-C/Thunderbolt 3 hating. The whole point of getting it wasn't so I could use it with old, slow and inferior tech, but so I could to take advantage of the expansion options and use it with high-end, new tech. So I went ahead and bought it and haven't regretted that decision although:

1. I just mailed it in for the keyboard replacement yesterday.

2. I was slightly disappointed at the time that they didn't include a USB-C to Lightning cable for the iPhone 7, but it made sense as the iPhone 7 was released earlier. The fact that the iPhone X doesn't include that cable is inexcusable.

3. It's weird that there's an audio jack but my iPhone comes with lightning headphones. Not much of an issue in practice though as never really use either for audio, and AirPods work well on both devices.

So my issues with the MBP are mostly related to how it ties in to the broader Apple line-up, and the lack of out-of-the-box compatibility/connectivity between devices.

USB-C, and particularly Thunderbolt 3, is awesome though:

* Sure, the power brick doesn't have ears, but you can just remove the cable from the adapter. Seems like a better solution to me. The ears are no longer necessary because the cable isn't attached to it.

* The power brick can be used to quickly charge your iPhone or other USB-C PD devices. For instance, I also use it to charge a USB-C PD battery pack, which I can then use to charge my MBP at 30W on the go.

* I never have adapters dangling from my laptop. I've bought a few new cables, a USB-C display that charges my laptop over a single cable, and a USB-C SSD that's more compatible (e.g. not Thunderbolt 2) and faster than I could previously achieve.

* I'm contemplating getting a Thunderbolt 3 NVMe SSD and an eGPU soon. Both will provide near-desktop performance extremely conveniently albeit at the expense of backward compatibility.

* Touch ID makes it much easier for me to keep my computer safe. I can conveniently separate more activities with user accounts and use longer passwords, and I don't have to worry if someone or a camera is peeking while doing so.

* The few times I've had to use HDMI I've plugged in the HDMI cable, which now has a USB-C adapter permanently attached. Problem solved.

samcat1163• 8 years ago

This. I don't think people realize that to make USB-C work, you basically have to replace every cable you have. It kinda sucks from a money perspective, but thats what it takes. But that means I can plug in my MacBook Pro and Thinkpad into the same desk setup with one cable.

tlb3• 8 years ago

It's underappreciated how much thermal capacity varies from machine to machine, and over time. It makes benchmarking hard.

Clock speeds, because they're crystal-controlled, don't vary by more than several PPM between machines. Thermal capacity varies by ±10% easily.

The thermal resistance depends on a bunch of mechanical factors that are hard to control in manufacturing, like how well the thermal grease fills the tiny pores in the metal of the heat sinks, and how well the air flows through the ventilation ducts. And these usually get worse over time as bubbles form in the grease and dust sticks to the fan blades. And of course it depends on room temperature and pressure.

It means that benchmarks will have to be done under more tightly controlled conditions. The automotive world has standards for this, where horsepower measurements are adjusted by a correction factor that depends on temperature and pressure.

yoz-y• 8 years ago

Benchmarks such as geek bench are an aggregate of benchmarks done in many different conditions.

glup3• 8 years ago

I understand this variability in thermal efficiency in who-knows-who-made-this-but-it-sure-was-cheap OEM ecosystems, but shouldn't Apple of all companies have the engineering/sourcing/testing resources to get this down to +-1%?

noir_lord5• 8 years ago

I mentioned the other day on here that my T470P doesn't throttle under load and someone who didn't own one told me it did based on an online review.

I mean I only own one and have watched it's clock speed while under load from a chess engine..what do I know.

microdrum• 8 years ago

Thermal capacity varies by 10% between different examples of the same Apple product?

jagger27• 8 years ago

That's the first I've heard of such a claim. What's the difference? Thermal paste?

falcolas2• 8 years ago

Crystal controlled clock speeds are thermally dependent too (upwards of 40ppm) - they're just compensated for via dedicated circuits to bring that down to the 2-3ppm range.

Which raises the question - are there 'el-cheepo' motherboards out there which don't use thermally compensated oscillators?

jdietrich• 8 years ago

Those are all reasons why you should engineer in a thermal margin. If some proportion of machines are throttling out of the box, then most machines will start throttling as the thermal management system degrades. You're supposed to account for the ageing of the thermal material and clogging of the airflow path and degradation of the fan bearings. You're supposed to leave in some headroom for warm rooms, high altitude and partially blocked vents.

It's yet another symptom of Apple's preoccupation with thickness. The 2015 MacBook Pro was 18mm thick. The new MacBook Pro is 15mm thick. After all the furore over USB-C and unreliable keyboards and the loss of MagSafe, was that 3mm of z-height a worthwhile tradeoff?

tlb3• 8 years ago

I don't think there's room for margin any more. Margin means fixing a power limit slightly lower than what the worst machine can sustain. That probably means leaving 10-20% performance on the table for average machines.

redial• 8 years ago

All those problems exist in smartphones and maybe manifest even more as you literally hold the heat dissipator in your hands while using it, yet Apple manages just fine.

Thermal engineering is hard, but doable, most of all to the richest technology company in the world.

Const-me2• 8 years ago

That i9 CPU dissipates 45 watts of heat, on average: https://ark.intel.com/products/134903/Intel-Core-i9-8950HK-P...

I don’t think it’s possible to design an ultrathin laptop around that CPU. That’s just too much heat. Many desktop CPUs are close to that, e.g. AMD’s Ryzen 5 2400G can be configured to be 45W too.

EpicEng5• 8 years ago

I don’t think it’s possible to design an ultrathin laptop around that CPU.

Maybe not, but I don't care about "ultra thin" for a professional machine. I want performance. Apple keeps making sacrifices in the name of dimensions and weight.

They seem to be fine selling "pro" machines to people who use it as little more than a web browser. They make a ton of money and I'm sure they know what they're doing, but they lost me as a customer.

laythea• 8 years ago

This kind of trick reminds me of broadband internet where you buy X MB connection but actually get X/Y MB. Should be laws against this behavior.

rayiner• 8 years ago

Those laws would be a great example of legislators being technologically ignorant. Optimizing for bursty behavior is not only acceptable, but is what you typically want. Even if you're a developer, your compile-edit cycle typically will be on the order of a couple of minutes of load, or less. Being able to ramp up to 4 GHz during that time and then rushing to idle is what maximizes performance within a given thermal constraint.

As to advertising, advertising the burst speed, with the appropriate caveat, is usually the correct decision too. Under full load, almost any modern laptop will get under 2 hours of battery life. Should they be advertised as such? No, that's a completely un-helpful metric. Under typical use, where the machine is idle most of the time, you will in fact get 8 hours or whatever of use.

Apple actually advertises these machines as 2.2 or 2.6 GHz machines, with "up to 4.3 GHz Turbo Boost" in smaller font below. This is actually probably deceptive (though in a way that is not favorable to Apple). In typical use, the machine will feel more like a 4.3 GHz machine than a 2.6 GHz one. (E.g. comparing it to your 2.6 GHz Haswell-era Mac.)

Karunamon2• 8 years ago

Where we can bring this analogy back to relevance is when you deal with ISPs that offer "up to X", but in reality, they're so (oversold/badly managed/other excuse) that you will never reach that quoted speed in daily usage.

Apple, here, has sold a machine that thermally throttles at idle, basically guaranteeing that its quoted clock speed will never be used, even under load.

j-c-hewitt4• 8 years ago

Isn't this not so much an issue with the Macbook itself but with this generation of processors? Yeah, when it gets hot (and it runs hotter) it will throttle. The Apple reality distortion field only works on people -- it doesn't do much against thermodynamics.

It seems a little misplaced to rail against Apple as if this is a design flaw. That's how this CPU will perform even in a completely different form factor without sufficient cooling. Want to prevent throttling? Here's a big heatsink with a couple fans attached to it. Want even more cooling? Here's a tank of water and a giant radiator.

Want a slim form factor and an i9? It's going to throttle because it will get hot when you actually use it for something that makes use of that processor. Unless you live where I live and want to use the computer outside in the winter when it's -20F.

pasbesoin• 8 years ago

If the i9 profile doesn't fit what is approaching an ultrabook, then don't try to put it into that ultrabook.

If your customers want an i9, be more honest with them. Don't just sell them what ends up being a crippled i9.

If Intel could make an i9 that burned less, I'm sure they'd be happy to. (Well, at least now, given their increased need to compete.)

I guess in that regard, you could "blame" Intel. If AMD really has pulled ahead in the race to 7 and 5 nm, interconnect data throughput, and whatever else.

rhizome• 8 years ago

If your customers want an i9, be more honest with them.

Exactly. We accepted (or endured, but it wasn't a mystery) the DDR3 limit of 16GB in laptops for years after the desire for more arose.

dguaraglia• 8 years ago

This is the part I don't understand. Apple has been pushing for thinner and thinner laptops on the Pro line, when all I want is a laptop that can run a workload without throttling immediately, a good keyboard and a reasonable battery (that's the one thing they still do well, considering the legal cap on battery sizes).

This is totally my personal opinion, but the MacBook Pro 2015 was the perfect laptop. I still use one as my main driver, and I'm agonizing on what my next (long overdue!) move will be.

larrik• 8 years ago

The heat may be Intel, but the ventilation and cooling is all Apple. Maybe they shouldn't sacrifice performance for aesthetics and then advertise impossible performance.

kevin_b_er2• 8 years ago

The term I use for this is Form Over Function and is a very Apple thing to do.

ISL• 8 years ago

The issue is with a potential mismatch of expectation and reality.

When a customer sees "i9" they expect to be able to get the performance of which the i9 is capable.

If I were to purchase a laptop with an i9, I'd expect to be able to run full-throttle numerical simulations and data analysis on it. If I didn't plan to do that, I wouldn't have purchased a fast chip.

save_ferris• 8 years ago

How is this not on Apple? Surely a company with the resources that Apple does could and should have done more than just throw a new processor in the chassis and ship it. Instead, they went with the laziest approach and advertise the new specs knowing that they can't reasonably be achieved consistently.

Frankly, this feels like false advertising to me. If I'm going to drop $3k on a MacBook with a Core-i9 chip that flies, I better get what I paid for. And clearly people aren't.

They should've redesigned the chassis to address this, but instead they got caught shipping a subpar product. So "brave"...

j-c-hewitt4• 8 years ago

I guess that's really the issue then. If you're familiar with the properties of these processors then you will not be surprised about the thermal complaints. If you aren't then you will be surprised. No it's not worth $3000 but it's also not possible to get the most out of that chip in any environment without a physically large cooling system. I think people who buy it because they want to be the kind of person who buys a $3000 laptop will be happy with it. The kind of person who wants $3000 performance would be better off buying something that isn't a laptop.

walrus01• 8 years ago

Isn't this not so much an issue with the Macbook itself but with this generation of processors? Yeah, when it gets hot (and it runs hotter) it will throttle

CPUs have very specific TDP figures in their manufacturer datasheets, the problem is with laptop makers trying to cram too much wattage into a package that is too thin and light.

oh_sigh2• 8 years ago

misplaced to rail against Apple as if this is a design flaw. That's how this CPU will perform even in a completely different form factor without sufficient cooling

Isn't sufficient cooling a design decision by apple?

j-c-hewitt4• 8 years ago

No one is going to buy a fat Macbook with giant fans. They will buy a $3000 laptop with a CPU that can't run at full speed that looks cool. There is no magical cooling system that takes up no space that would allow that processor in an MBP form factor to run at full turbo all the time.

spronkey• 8 years ago

Yes let's all blame Intel for producing the fastest and most powerful 45W TDP processor ever, that has literally no rivals.

How dare they.

bhouston• 8 years ago

My dell xps 15 9570 with an Intel core i7 8750h throttles to 2 GHz after sustained load as well. I think it is a general cpu issue with this series of 8th generation core i7/i9 chips rather than apple specific.

I get throttled after about sustained usage of a couple minutes.

glup3• 8 years ago

I think there's a confound there that these are both very thin machines, limiting the size of fans (=CFM per an acceptable noise level) and heatsinks. Not sure how others feel but I wouldn't mind a slightly larger form factor if it improved thermals.

jasonlotito4• 8 years ago

The throttling isn't the issue. The issue is that the 2017 MBP i7 is faster than the 2018 MBP i9 in tests. That throttling is making this happen is immaterial. That the 8th gen chips are problematic aren't the issue. The issue is that the newer higher end MBP is slower than the older MBP.

rhacker• 8 years ago

This is why my wife wants a beefy, heavy laptop that has cooling systems that wrap around the moon once. We haven't chosen one yet, but we it will probably be one of those inch+ thick ones, not the razor thin laptops. She's going to run circles and then some around my MBP 2014. and I'm really really jealous and ready to go back to the PC now.

noir_lord5• 8 years ago

The new 4C/8T T480's are incredible, they get about the same work rate as the 7700HQ in my T470P with about half the TDP.

Outside of that you are into the P range which are deathstars (Xeon's in a laptop...).

jtbayly3• 8 years ago

Perhaps insulating the new keyboard with a thin layer of rubber wasn't such a good idea after all.

mort962• 8 years ago

In case you haven't seen the pictures: https://betanews.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/macbook-pro-...

It's mostly a big hole with some silicone on the sides. That's not to say that it doesn't affect cooling at all; saying the keyboard is insulated is probably exaggeration though.

jtbayly3• 8 years ago

Meant to be a joke, mostly, but still, I would expect most of the heat escapes out the sides, not through the key. The sides are what are covered.

jtbayly3• 8 years ago

The cooling problem is Apple's but the heating problem is Intel's. In my mind this is more evidence of the need for Apple to simply produce their own chips.

dawnerd2• 8 years ago

Have any of these reviewers checked if the fans were running at max? I know Apple tends to prefer lower fan speeds.

thinkythought• 8 years ago

you shouldn't have to use a utility to force the fans to max. if it's not running them as hard as it could, then it's badly designed. that's a choice on their part.

dawnerd2• 8 years ago

Totally agree. I hate having to force the fans higher when in clamshell mode. Ideally they could have a settings page to choose between quiet or cool.

geden• 8 years ago

The big issue for me with the new MacBook Pro is that USB C ports and connectors are not fit for professional use.

They are too small and delicate and don’t connected solidly and ‘grasp’ firmly enough. Over the last year they have also worn to a shocking degree on a top spec 2017 15” model. There wasn’t enough friction in the first place and now there’s none.

I work with a professional touring musician and we’ve reverted to his 2015 model for stage use because wobbly poor connectors that have to be gaffer taped to the chassis are not fun.

That said, I have seen a badly tuned Funktion One PA vibrate out a USB A connector from a MBP port in just a few seconds...

cageface2• 8 years ago

I’m seeing this in my 2017 model too. I have to reseat the power cable half a dozen times a day. My 2015 MBP was the best computer I’ve ever owned. This 2017 model is shaping up to be one of the worst.

chendragon2• 8 years ago

I have the 2016 version of the machine, base model, and it throttles. Not nearly as badly as anything else in it's thinness class, but the CPU can only run at 37w as measured by Power Gadget under p95 with fans forced to 6500rpm. PC manufacturers often throttle the CPU with the BIOS on purpose or set PL1/2 which Apple doesn't do.

Similar PC notebooks tend to keep the CPU at 85C and run them at 15-20W. Apple runs the CPU at 102C before throttling them, and there aren't apparent power limits.

They're trying pretty hard to solve this problem and to be honest there's not very much more they could be doing short of putting last-mm^3 heatsinks everywhere or making the fans even louder. I'm personally okay with the form factor they've chosen and they've done their best with that.

azdacha• 8 years ago

I'm getting tired of putting my hand on a 40 degrees hoven all day.

My hands hurts, it's painful, tiring, enough for me to buy a new keyboard without much tough, and certainly enough to make me think twice about buying a Mac again.

Get your shit together.

antoinevg• 8 years ago

Strike two.

cheshire137• 8 years ago

Hmm I thought the throttling stuff was just affecting the 15" with an i9, but this article mentioned the i7 had problems, too. Is the i7 in a 13" affected?

amanzi• 8 years ago

CPU throttling appears to be a common problem with these new powerful CPUs and the thin, light chassis that most manufacturers believe we want. So while this doesn't affect just Apple, I think Apple needs specific calling out since they price and market their laptops as the most premium of all brands.

dharma1• 8 years ago

I've got my i9 mbpro on order. I've got a couple of ideas for cooling for getting around thermal throttling when doing something super intensive (like compiling or exporting RAW video).

1) Freeze board under the bottom https://www.amazon.co.uk/Thermos-Reuseable-Freeze-Board-800

2) Running this in reverse to help with airflow https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B07C7X25NR

Will measure temps and blog on it

Some MacBook Pro users complain about throttling issues

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