Primer (film)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Primer_(film)

by iamwil • 16 years ago

225 91 16 years ago

en.wikipedia.org

phoboslab• 16 years ago

Primer is one of my all time favorite movies. I had goose bumps watching it the first time.

The linked timeline from the article is actually pretty "easy" to read and really helped me understand what I've just seen. Just watch the movie beforehand :)

http://neuwanstein.fw.hu/primer_timeline.html

Edit: The entire movie is officially(?) available on Google Video, though the quality is not that good. You should find yourself a better copy...

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3909854615539675694#

ilkhd2• 16 years ago

Alas, most of people saw Avatar, and believe that it was the best movie in the history of genre..

kevinelliott• 16 years ago

I haven't seen Avatar yet. I'm likely one of the 7 who hasn't.

mattmanser• 16 years ago

It was totally worth seeing in 3D and on big screen just for the effects. Story's lame though.

iamwil• 16 years ago

I guess I'm two of 7.

X-Istence• 16 years ago

Please, don't read the Wikipedia article before you go out and rent or buy this movie. The movie is absolutely fantastic.

I have seen it 17 to 18 times, and even-though people have attempted to explain everything that is going on to me I still have a hard time wrapping my mind around it. Awesome for the hacker in you!

almost• 16 years ago

Seconded, watch the movie! Don't read too much about it first. Primer is totally awesome, seriously confusing though it is :)

camperman• 16 years ago

I'm on my tenth time and I'm just starting to figure out a few of the nuances in only some of the scenes. The timeline has helped but one day I will do an animation that shows it more intuitively it that's possible.

sandGorgon• 16 years ago

upvoted - especially the large image (one of the links on Wikipedia) that draws a graph of the "events".

dchs• 16 years ago

Damn! Too late!

acdha• 16 years ago

Just got around to watching it on Netflix a few weeks ago - the first movie in awhile which has kept us up talking about for nearly as long as it takes to watch. Highly recommended.

micheljansen2• 16 years ago

Exactly. I'm surprised this link got upvoted this much. Everyone should have already seen this movie ;)

ciaranbradley3• 16 years ago

I'm ashamed to say I haven't seen this movie yet, I must order the DVD this weekend, (now that I've been reminded for the umpteenth time).

On a side note, my biggest annoyance with Wikipedia is manifest in articles about movies. For some reason, they allow an editorial policy of essentially writing out a scene by scene account of a movie.

angstrom• 16 years ago

True, but it's informational not editorial. I think the best they could really do is have a spoiler/non-spoiler view.

jsm386• 16 years ago

It's on Netlfix Streaming if you have an account...Was recommended to me last week by the system - which I'm definitely glad for.

maushu• 16 years ago

Required link to related xkcd strip: http://xkcd.com/657/

matt12• 16 years ago

Shameless self-promotion: my timeline app, Preceden, which lets you make multi-layered timelines, would be perfect for representing timelines like this (and the one in Primer!).

Check it out: http://www.preceden.com

timelinex• 16 years ago

Wow, cool I am going to do a timeline app for london start weekend. Planning to start prototype this weekend.

Just some feedback lower the barrier to entry. From the initial look of it, it seems like it would have a steep learning curve.

Your stats look great though. Spend $60 and get $145 back, you are on to something.

mistermann• 16 years ago

lol, I was trying to find that, hilarious!

gorog• 16 years ago

If you like films like Primer you will like Triangle. I clearly want to watch it again to understand every time loop. Plus there's Melissa George in the lead role, which doesn't hurt.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1187064/

If you're broke, it's available on Bittorrent (I am broke). Otherwise you won't regret your purchase.

fierarul• 16 years ago

Triangle was ok, but it has another feel to the movie. It's a bit of a horror with some mystical explanation to it.

But Primer is pure mind-bending sci-fi. You could feel the atmosphere of the guys inventing something like few other movies.

Actually - this is how I think a startup should feel and look like: the way the movie portrays it at the beginning, while the guys are still figuring things out.

roc• 16 years ago

Agreed. TRIANGLE was a pleasant surprise --far better than the average for that genre-- but not 'hard' sci-fi.

Another surprisingly good lower-budget/-attention sci-fi film is PANDORUM.

bd• 16 years ago

If you liked Primer, check also Timecrimes:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0480669/

jganetsk• 16 years ago

I prefer Timecrimes to Primer... it doesn't try to confuse the viewer.

SPOILER ALERT.

Also, single timeline based time travel is just plain better than multiple timeline based time travel. There are just way too many problems that having multiple timelines introduces. I don't think you can ever tie up all lose ends with multiple timelines... someone can always just build a time machine later and fork the past. Maybe Primer addresses this with the limitations of their devices.

jamesbritt• 16 years ago

I tried watching Timecrimes, but just couldn't make it through. Found it to be horrible.

Maybe there were some interesting ideas, but it just felt so clunky and amateurish.

surki• 16 years ago

On a tangential note, Timecrimes (Spanish) is another good movie I enjoyed watching - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Los_Cronocr%C3%ADmenes

joshsharp• 16 years ago

Agree, Timecrimes is very similar and good value.

foxtrot• 16 years ago

Its a tough watch the first time, I was left scratching my head!

retube• 16 years ago

Yeah a great flick. Only cost $7k dollars to make or something. Needs to be watched MANY times to figure it out, but the great thing is it seems to all hold together.

dzuc• 16 years ago

The DVD commentary is incredibly interesting because of this - mostly explaining how they kept the cost so low

rbanffy4• 16 years ago

It's rather simple. They traveled back in time with the complete movie. $7K was what the cost to build the time machine they used.

seiha• 16 years ago

It's available for instant playback on Netflix if anyone was wondering.

timmaah• 16 years ago

But only through the end of the month (Monday)

happyrichpinoy• 16 years ago

this will help make it easier to understand the movie -> http://www.nobleworld.biz/images/Gendler.pdf

reduxredacted• 16 years ago

Set time aside to watch it twice. It's only 77 minutes long, and I believe that's a plus. I saw this for the first time with a few friends and when it was over, nobody protested when I started it over immediately.

I've watched this movie several times and I pick up on new things almost every time.

agentultra• 16 years ago

It's a great film and the way it was made is very inspiring. Makes me think about picking up that dusty hd cam sometimes. Either way, a must see.

micheljansen2• 16 years ago

The funniest thing is that people have actually tried to graph all the different timelines. Some examples:

  * http://i.imgur.com/kqja1.jpg
  * http://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/PrimerTimeline.gif

olliesaunders• 16 years ago

Why is that funny?

aarongough• 16 years ago

I watched this movie several years ago, and thinking about it still messes with my brain. Even though I wouldn't watch it again, I still recommend you go and see it if you haven't already!

rick_2047• 16 years ago

I like to maintain my take on time travel as described by Sheldon in Big Bang theory

"Sheldon: It occurs to me that if I ever did invent a time machine, I will just go into the past and give it to myself. Thus eliminating the need to invent it in first place. That really takes the pressure off".

I would like to hear what you guys think of time travel, after all it has be one of the favourite subject of speculative science fiction.

rbanffy4• 16 years ago

The whole universe only needs one well maintained time machine.

I like the clause in their roommate agreement - if any of them ever invents a time machine, the first stop will be their meeting on the roommate agreement when they are discussing it.

jokermatt9992• 16 years ago

Some spoilers, beware.

Honestly, I'm rarely a fan of time travel stories. They tend to be full of plot holes and half-baked logic. Since everything is theoretical, it seems like many writers just pull whatever rules they feel like out of a hat, and use it as a sort of deus ex machina. Very rarely is it used well in my opinion. Primer is one of the rare exceptions because it's well structured and thought out (maddeningly so), but overall I tend to skip such things.

Also, it could be noted that Primer being about time travel could be considered a spoiler. I didn't know what it was about until it was actually revealed in the movie, and I was kind of happy having it that way.

nuncanada• 16 years ago

Just not possible... That's not fun.

Let me just clarify a little bit. Traveling to the past is not possible. "Traveling" to the future is already known how to.

At least some fiction make a coherent history for how time travel works, like Primer or Asimov's book 'The End of Eternity'... Unlike for example Donnie Darko, a movie that i love, but the ending....

eru• 16 years ago

Wasn't Primer available free to view on Google Video?

pkrumins• 16 years ago

It is! http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3909854615539675694

glaze2• 16 years ago

You can also watch it on voddler for free.

dublinclontarf• 16 years ago

I like how this movie has cost $7000 and brought in nearly $500,000.

Alexo• 16 years ago

I just wanted to clarify that it's very misleading to say that this film cost $7000. It cost $7000 and several years of Shane's life, as well as a torrent of favours from his friends, family and others.

Why is this an important distinction? Because you can't calculate or quote business investment and return while discarding the cost of people working for several years on a project for free.

Saying that Primer cost Shane Carruth $7000 to make is like saying that The Harry Potter Book Series cost J K Rowling 19 ink cartridges.

It's important to appreciate what Shane achieved with such few resources though, and it's interesting to note also that he was a software engineer before making his way into filmmaking.

hugothefrog2• 16 years ago

Another movie similar to this (I think, having not seen the movie, but from reading the discussions) is Momento: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memento_%28film%29

IMO it stays with you a long time after you've watched it..

artlogic• 16 years ago

I have to say I felt that Memento was only good for a single watching. This may be an oversimplification, but if you reorganized the movie with all the scenes in reverse it would just be a mediocre movie about a guy who can't remember anything and the people he interacts with. I guess I just felt it was gimmicky.

Primer, on the other hand doesn't use a single editing gimmick or plot twist, but rather does a deep drive in the mind bending situations that can occur when time travel becomes possible.

hugothefrog2• 16 years ago

Thanks for the comparison :)

I can't say I've watched Momento more than once. I guess that says something in itself.

I'll definitely be getting a copy of Primer now!

bendauphinee• 16 years ago

Primer was a fantastic movie. Total mindf*, but then that is what made the rewatch worth it.

thegyppo• 16 years ago

A friend was telling me about this last night too, strange coincidence!

forinti• 16 years ago

Not really, he read about it today and told you about it last night.

petewarden• 16 years ago

I discovered this through a fantastic list of 'mindfuck movies':

http://www.themorningnews.org/archives/reviews/mindfuck_movi...

It's definitely the most complex of the bunch, but most of them were great finds. Cube was another low-budget gem, and on the other end of the spectrum there's The Game with Michael Douglas.

Jun8• 16 years ago

Thanks for this awesome list, unfortunately it seems I've watched most of them. I especially recommend La Jetee (the Hollywood remake, Twelve Monkeys is also good) and Solaris.

I started watching Primer but gave up after 10 minutes or so, maybe the effects of watching it late after you put your child to sleep.

trafficlight2• 16 years ago

Give it another shot. It's not an action flick, you need to give it more than 10 minutes.

bemmu• 16 years ago

Thanks for sharing that movie list, we just had a wonderful time watching Mulholland Dr. and it has been the topic of conversation whole day.

sandaru1• 16 years ago

speaking of (relatively) low budget films, "The Man from Earth" is awesome (it's low budget relative to Hollywood, not relative to Primer; $200,000)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Man_from_Earth

oz• 16 years ago

I watched it earlier this year. Awesome.

th• 16 years ago

A word of warning: this movie is entirely dialogue. That being said, it's a great movie.

83457• 16 years ago

Two more movies for the instance queue. Thanks

pingou• 16 years ago

I loved Primer.

But The man from Earth was just boring, I don't get why so many people liked it.

Bad actors, the hero claims are either dull or ridiculous (I laughed a lot when he pretended to be J.), and most important of all, not surprising. I knew what the movie was about before I saw it, and if it can't show me more than I can imagine myself, it just sucks.

I'll be happy to get some downvotes so that some of you could save 2 hours by not viewing this movie.

isleyaardvark• 16 years ago

The actors themselves have done good work, but they did the best they could with the writing. I was annoyed by the historical inaccuracies, but mainly it came off as though it was written by a college freshman.

staunch• 16 years ago

If you liked Star Trek: TOS, or perhaps any Star Trek, you should not listen to this man. Watch the movie at least once. Although heavily flawed and not particularly novel (just like Star Trek) it will strike a chord with some people. It did with me.

trafficlight2• 16 years ago

The best thing about Primer is that it felt completely real. I felt like I could go out to my garage and build something amazing.

ivankirigin• 16 years ago

Do NOT read this if you haven't seen the movie. Don't learn anything about it. Just watch it.

I guarantee you'll have a better time.

pavel_lishin• 16 years ago

And then watch it again. And again.

mattheww2• 16 years ago

Bad news guys. Carroll, Farhi, and Guth along with 't Hooft already looked into this in the 1990s. The only way time travel is possible is if there is already a time machine in the universe. If there isn't one already, it's impossible to create one in an open universe, and in a closed universe, it's not possible to create one and then use it before the universe ends.

The proofs are in 2+1 dimensions, but they're generally believed to hold in 3+1.

http://preposterousuniverse.com/research/#ctcs for a brief summary with references by Carroll.

Panoramix2• 16 years ago

As I understood it, this pertains to a specific implementation of a time machine i.e., the Gott time machine.

The jury is still out on other implementations, though of course everything seems to point towards them being impossible.

mattheww2• 16 years ago

You're right, but what other implementations have proven they can actually produce a closed time-like curve?

ibejoeb• 16 years ago

I can't say it's my favorite, but I like it and respect it. I think I like it more knowing how it was done. It's hard to characterize it without sounding negative, but these guys were practically neophytes. The budget was tiny, and the actors are not conservatory trained or anything. It's shot very nicely, and it mostly feels quite natural. It was bootstrapped to success. In that way, it's a good spiritual match for the HN community.

Criticisms: it's twisted beyond comprehension, and it's jargony almost to a fault. I find it tough to get some people to sit through it.

cj• 16 years ago

FYI - you can stream this movie from netflix on demand.

(though the movie has only 1.5/5 stars, interestingly enough.

bitwize• 16 years ago

"What's that?"

"It's a time machine."

"Does it work?"

"Heck, yeah, it does. You don't even know."

brandonkm• 16 years ago

>After principal photography, Carruth took two years to fully post-produce Primer. He has since said that this experience was so arduous that he almost abandoned the film on several occasions.

Wow. This particular fact really stood out to me. I'm glad he chose to be resilient and finish the project. Theres a lot of parallels founders can draw upon from the making of this film (budget, style, technique, etc.).

MisterWebz• 16 years ago

The Machinist is worth watching too.

mcantor• 16 years ago

I was completely taken off-guard by the time travel humor:

"Are you hungry? I haven't eaten since later this afternoon."

glaze2• 16 years ago

I'm surprised that nobody has mentioned Pi in this thread yet: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pi_(film)

It's a low-budget philosophical/mathematical/surrealistic geek film.

Indyan• 16 years ago

Just watched the movie for the first time and understood pretty much nothing. Went through the Wikipedia summary and still I don't understand a lot of things. Will take another crack at it tommorow morning.

Primer (film)

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