Flat Pack Chainless Bicycle from IKEA

http://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/products/30326728/?ref=producthunt

by charlieirish • 10 years ago

198 289 10 years ago

ikea.com

rbinv• 10 years ago

How is that chainless?

nom• 10 years ago

It uses a belt :)

peterwwillis4• 10 years ago

Belt drive, no chains.

jamessb• 10 years ago

It has a belt drive [1], rather than a chain.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belt-driven_bicycle

Lockyy• 10 years ago

From the manual:

This bicycle is powered by a belt drive, which is a rustproof, durable and maintenance-free alternative to a regular chain.

Seems like it's a similar but different system to produce the same outcome. It also says to not oil it, just wash with water. The bike also has no gear cables so it looks like it's designed to minimise maintenance as much as possible and that's a part of it.

jgrahamc• 10 years ago

It doesn't have a chain. It uses a belt drive.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belt-driven_bicycle

peterwwillis4• 10 years ago

It's two gear, so it's not great for inclines, and the belt and frame are less durable. I'm not sure it's worth the money once you learn bicycle maintenance (but you could say that about a lot of IKEA furniture and woodworking/metalworking)

legodt6• 10 years ago

If the belt is like standard belt drives (I need to look further into this, not sure if Ikea cheaped out or not), it should actually stand up to time better than a chain would. Belts are simply carbon cord embedded in a molded casing of nylon and polyurethane, and, more importantly, do not have any moving parts or linkages. It's just a belt! So you don't have to worry about the metal pitting over time or road salt settling in and destroying your drivetrain like you would with a traditional metal chain. This is more important to the European market where bicycle riders my not have cars, but owning a bike that you aren't afraid of taking out in the rain is another benefit of the belt.

My biggest concern though is that like all parts, the belt will fail eventually. A quick look online shows that new belts cost around $250, over half of the retail price of this bike!

dsr_2• 10 years ago

...which is presumably why there's a 10 year warranty on the belt.

yupyupp7• 10 years ago

Someone mentioned it is a "conti-drive system". Which iirc is one of Continental's belts. Continental is well regarded in the cycling community for making high quality quality kevlar-core tires that withstand a lot of abuse (gator skins) so I'd imagine their belts are fairly good as well.

peterwwillis4• 10 years ago

For a city bike, you could get a chain drive fixie which barely wears at all and only requires some oil every few months, can be repaired easily and is very cheap. Belts last about as long or less as a fixie chain drive with regular oiling.

Belt with two internal gears lasts much longer than a mountain bike 18 speed chain drive, but then you're comparing apples and oranges.

This is a bike designed for the Apple user, basically, except that it seems inexpensive, which is nice. If you never want to think about how a bike works, this seems fine. But my original point was to learn how to maintain a bike.

bluedino3• 10 years ago

25 year warranty on the frame

yupyupp7• 10 years ago

What makes you say the frame is less durable?

It says that the frame is powder coated. Powder coating tends to last a lot longer and survive more abuse than paint does. Also its a aluminum frame so it is not going to be rusting either.

peterwwillis4• 10 years ago

Because aluminum is literally less durable than steel alloys, and steel chains are way more durable than belts, with a single speed bike.

If you leave your bike out in the elements and don't maintain it, any parts that do not survive prolonged exposure to heat cycle, water, oxidation, salt, etc will deteriorate. But that isn't even metal durability, that's just plain weather. Any bike will deteriorate outside.

Another downside is aluminum is stiffer than steel, making for a rougher ride unless you add suspension, get softer tires or significantly change geometry.

mtdewcmu2• 10 years ago

Can anyone figure out why it's so expensive? Here's a fancier-looking 26" bicycle on walmart.com for $79.97 - $249.00. [1]

[1] https://www.walmart.com/ip/26-Roadmaster-Granite-Peak-Men-s-...

dsr_2• 10 years ago

25 year frame warranty, 10 year belt warranty.

Basically, the cost of replacing it three times is built into the price.

antfarm• 10 years ago

The IKEA bike has a belt drive, disk brakes, aluminum frame, automatic 2-gear system, etc.

The one from walmart.com is just plain cheap and low quality, nothing fancy about it.

collyw5• 10 years ago

Belt drive - I can't see much advantage to that. Aluminium frame - probably the Wallmart ones are as well. Disk brakes - cheap V brakes would be fine for the sort of cycling you will do on that thing. (This seems to have the cheaper cable pull disk brakes, rather than more powerful hydraulic ones). 2 gear system - hardly worth having only two gears in my opinion.

Maybe it's just because I am a bit of a bike snob with a fairly decent mountain bike, but I thought this looked pretty expensive for the type of riding it would be used for.

woodruffw10• 10 years ago

Walmart and other big-box store bicycles are infamous in the cycling community for their poor quality and assembly, often to the point of being completely unsafe to ride at any speed (Nader reference intended).

They often use the cheapest high-tensile steel they can find, off-brand rims, mix-and-match groupsets, low-quality brakes, and so forth. The bike you linked exemplifies that - mixed Shimano/SRAM components and "alloy wheels" are in its description. Box-store bikes are also never put together correctly - flipped forks, pinched inner tubes, and sheared screws/bolts abound when they come in for repairs.

Comparing these two bicycles directly, the big things that stand out as pros are the Sladda's aluminum frame and disc brakes. An internal gear hub is also a nice low-maintenance touch. It remains to be be seen how well the Sladda holds up, but $400-500 isn't too unreasonable for a aluminum city-cruiser that's been ruggedized.

alistproducer2• 10 years ago

completely unsafe to ride at any speed

I can attest this is not the case. All I,and everyone who are not cyclists,have ever rode are cheap Wal-Mart bikes. Even when I used to do stupid stuff like jump them and fly down hills, I've never had a structural failure occur.

cbr2• 10 years ago

    mixed Shimano/SRAM components

Is this an actual problem, or just something someone only would do if they were heavily trying to minimize cost?

david-given3• 10 years ago

Disc brake --- the rear brake is a back-pedal job, unfortunately, which makes it a write-off from my perspective; years of cycling ordinary bicycles mean that I tend to automatically move the pedals backwards while coasting to a comfortable position, and doing this with a back-pedal brake leads to unhappy experiences.

I'm impressed by the add-on bicycle trailer, obvious being sold as a first-class citizen. A lot of IKEA stuff is modular and eminently hackable --- like, literally today I have assembled 40kg of random furniture into a workbench/desk for my study by bolting together bits of office with bits of bedroom. I'm sure there's interesting things to do with it. It looks like you can restow the towbar to make a convenient handle for pulling it.

Oh, yeah, it's an automatic gearbox, too.

Here's a random review:

http://cyclingbikebible.com/real-user-reviews-ikea-flat-pack...

owenversteeg5• 10 years ago

Boy would you love the Netherlands. Here, almost everyone rides a used bike that's had many owners, each of which changed it in some "improper" way. Wheels the wrong size for the bike, duct tape holding the bike together, half of the spokes broken, etc., etc.

But you know what? That's what the whole country uses for transportation, every day, and it works fine. It turns out that, in your day-to-day usage of a bike (and this is for a country of people who ride their bikes as their main mode of transportation) it doesn't matter what ridiculous new type of Chinesium your wheels are made out of, as long as they stay vaguely circular. Brakes don't work? Here, put this duct tape on the brake pads, now they work. Chain keeps falling off? Oh, just don't put it into that gear then. And when it completely falls apart one day, or when it gets stolen, then another one costs $50.

When I'm in the US, I ride an $1100 bike. It's ridiculous, the thing is this gleaming sparkly shade of white, fancy carbon fiber parts that are 150% more aerodynamic than everyone else's carbon fiber parts, a frame that is so light you can carry it with one finger, etc., etc. It goes really fast, and is so smooth I forget I'm biking. But when I'm in the Netherlands? I ride a $20 bike that has spokes sticking out and broken, rust covering everything, and sometimes the front falls off. I'm serious, the front actually falls off. Yes, the handlebars and front fork and the whole shebang, in one go.

Somewhat uniquely, American bike enthusiasts are insane about safety. "You could DIE with an improperly maintained bike!", "Not wearing a helmet is like not wearing a seatbelt!" and "Walmart bikes are death traps" are things I've heard recently. But somehow, when the front of my $20 bike falls off (which has happened twice now) all I get is a minor scrape to my hands.

mdasen• 10 years ago

It still seems expensive compared to what I can get at a local bike shop. I got a Trek 7.2 from a bike shop for that price and it was assembled and came with some free tune-ups. Similarly, one can get a Fortified Bike 1-speed for $399. Both seem like better bicycles than the Sladda.

I agree that big-box stores often sell crappy bikes. But one can get a really nice bike from a bike shop for $400-500. If IKEA were selling this at $200 and it were a good bicycle, it might be notable. It just doesn't seem like a great bicycle for the price. It says nothing about puncture resistant tires. It's 33lbs which seems heavy (over 40% heavier than the Fortified). You have to assemble it at that price and there's no included adjustments and tune-ups vs. buying form a bike shop where you can you get something well-assembled and cared for.

IKEA is cheap for certain items and simply not a good deal for others. I'm not arguing that this is a downright crappy bike like many big-box bicycles. It just seems bad for the money given that I can get a significantly better bicycle for the same price and it would come pre-assembled better than I would assemble it with tune-ups and adjustments. What's the selling point of this bicycle? A $400-500 impulse buy when dropping a grand or two at IKEA? Are bicycles significantly more expensive in a lot of Europe and so it seems like a deal in a lot of IKEA markets?

It just seems like there's a wealth of bicycles at my local bike shop that they'll sell me for the same money that are better bikes.

Redoubts• 10 years ago

Relevant video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wkMnk_eCDQU

anonu• 10 years ago

I love the Walmart bikes as they are my designated beater bikes. I've purchased a handful of them over the years - since they are so cheap, when parts do get stolen you can simply just replace the entire bike and use the old one for parts. I live in NYC and my goal was to get around quickly (without bringing my bike in and out of my apartment everytime I wanted to ride). So, I've learnt to lockdown my bike, and generally make it look unappealing to thieves (gorilla glue on bolts and screws, duct tape,dremel "Property of..." into the paint job) - while greasing regularly and ensuring the brakes are tuned. Another trick is to always use 2 U-Locks, one for each tire. Granted, I agree that the materials and build-quality are terrible, but not to the point where I've felt unsafe riding around at a good pace.

yupyupp7• 10 years ago

Like others said, the frame material is a huge part of the cost/value difference. But I'll also point out the fact that the IKEA bike is powder coated, has a belt drive, a coaster break, a disk break, and an internal gear hub. That combination of components makes this bike basically maintenance free. If this bike was left on a bike rack outside a college dorm for a school year it would be perfectly fine; the same can't be said about the Walmart bike. Glace at any bike rack at a college campus and you'll know what I mean.

cbr2• 10 years ago

    If this bike was left on a bike
    rack outside a college dorm for
    a school year it would be
    perfectly fine

To be fair, it would probably be stolen.

Eridrus2• 10 years ago

I bought one of those cheap bikes for Burning Man with the expectation it would get trashed. The steering screws came apart every day and I had to carry a screw driver with me to routinely fix it. It was fine for burning man, but I would not have driven that thing on a road.

GFK_of_xmaspast• 10 years ago

I had a walmart bike once, the seat pipe broke as I was riding it.

jessaustin3• 10 years ago

Do you mean the post (easy to replace) or the tube (part of the frame, probably unfixable)?

bane3• 10 years ago

I grew up with a slew of craptastic second hand, thrift store and K-Mart level bikes since it was all we could afford (and as I grew, the bikes grew). We used to beat the living snot out of those bikes and I don't remember any of them costing more than $150 new and they either never broke or were easy to repair. I would expect to pay no more than around $300 for a similar quality of bike these days.

The last time I walked into a bike shop I turned right around and walked out. Since when did bikes get so unbelievably expensive? I just wanted one for tooting around the neighborhood and maybe popping a curb or two, and the cheapest I could find was around $500. Most were easily in the $1000-$3000 range.

I think younger people have been trained that bikes need to be expensive but unless you're doing some very very intensive mountain biking or road racing you probably will never encounter a problem with a Walmart-class bike.

Every year Costco sells some bikes for around $300-$400 and they're in the class that I care about. Probably "better" than Walmart, but not these outrageous prices in bike stores.

IKEA quality is also often very questionable, the "Family" price seems closer to reasonable. $400 otherwise? No way.

I really just want a Hyundai Elantra bike, not a BMW M3 or a Ferrari.

geon• 10 years ago

It feels quite obvious that a specialized bike store would focus on the more hard core end of the spectrum, since otherwise they would need to compete with wallmart and costco.

mwill• 10 years ago

Me and my friends used to buy the cheapest bikes we could out in rural Australia, as low as $50 AUD. We would flog them in the ground for a month or so, when they finally gave out left them right where they broke, and went bought another one.

No one wanted a good bike because a good bike was too good not to fix, and no one had the money to fix a good bike.

It was also the kind of town where if you had a good bike, it would get stolen for sure.

slewis• 10 years ago

There were expensive bikes back then too. There are cheap bikes now. It depends where you look.

xapata6• 10 years ago

I ran a volunteer bike repair shop for a while. The big box store bikes, like Walmart, Target, etc. have terrible parts. Brakes that fail. Wheels that bend. A girl at my school was killed because she rode in front of a garbage truck. Bystanders said it looked like she was trying to break and couldn't. Sometimes this is because the big box store employees put the brakes on backwards, with the pads facing away from the wheel. I've seen it.

If you want a cheap bike, buy a good one used. Craigslist is an excellent resource. A quality frame lasts forever (unless misused or left in the rain) and decent replacement parts aren't crazy expensive.

dntrkv• 10 years ago

"Since when did bikes get so unbelievably expensive?"

Quality bikes have always been expensive. You can still go buy a cheap bike at Walmart as the parent post points out.

"unless you're doing some very very intensive mountain biking or road racing you probably will never encounter a problem with a Walmart-class bike."

Nonsense, riding a quality bike is a much better experience in every single aspect. They're lighter, they have better brakes, shifting is smoother and more consistent, they're more comfortable. You can get the exact size you need instead of a one size fits all approach. Also, one of the most important factors in a bike's reliability is how well it's assembled, and you can be sure that places like Walmart will do a terrible job.

Spooky23• 10 years ago

In 1997, I would agree with you 100%. Times have changed, and things get cheaper and more terrible.

I bought a cheapo WalMart bike on vacation when mine was damaged in transit in a minor car accident. I was riding on a bike path, swerved to avoid something and went off a high curb. The impact cracked a frame weld.

It's a weird market. There's a market for cheap stuff that doesn't get used, and outrageous stuff for fanatics. No ,idle ground.

tehwalrus2• 10 years ago

I used to work in Halfords in the UK and they sold adult bikes in the apollo range for £75. They do still have one for £80 on their website.

The apollo outrider (as it was then called) was always pretty shoddy, but mostly just for the look and feel of the components, a bit heavy etc. We didn't get that many of them back in for repair.

dashundchen2• 10 years ago

I find that most US bike shops fall into two categories - either a general bike shop with a lot of models, or the racing/road oriented that focus on carbon fiber, racing etc.

If you want a general around town bike, I usually recommend the Trek FX series or Giant Escape hybrids. They're a light aluminium, but sturdy, use standard, durable, entry level components, have wider 700c tires good for handling potholes and curbs, mounts for racks - and worlds better ride quality then your run of the mill department store bike.

They're also common enough that you can find them used for under $300, or new starting around $380 or so. Models climb in price as they start adding higher level components but the entry level is usually good enough.

bane3• 10 years ago

Can't edit my original post, but here's a decent review of a crappy Walmart bike by a dedicated rider.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m3vI2bYhCrk

For the record, I'm probably a slow beginner leisure rider on beginner trails, I probably wouldn't be doing even half of the things in the video so I wouldn't be very alarmed.

He has some other tests of the bikes and what kind of realistic destruction these kinds of bikes can endure.

thekevan• 10 years ago

I am actually a fan of sub $100 bikes but I can also mess and tinker with them. I think here's a big part of the difference:

"It’s a belt driven automatic 2 speed integrated into the rear hub. The belt drive eliminates need for chain maintenance meaning it’s open to people who know little about bikes or people who do not have the time to do so. Amazingly the belt itself is guaranteed for 10 years which is exceptional length of time to offer in our opinion! Along with a 25 year guarantee on the frame itself it speaks volumes about how this bike was built to last!"

collyw5• 10 years ago

I have been riding bikes since I was a kid and still do. Seen one case of frame failure (or a fairly expensive enduro mountain bike that was used for downhill).

tritosomal2• 10 years ago

I bought a bike from Target over the summer for $100.

It has:

  broken one chain

  suffered multiple rear brake failures 

  unfastened the handle bars so they dangle from the fork

All of these things happened while miles from home, and required tools for repair.

When one thing was fixed, another thing broke. The brakes failed repeatedly, and warranted full replacement.

The handle bars are especially treacherous, because putting weight on them risks failure, and then steering becomes impossible.

Accessories and repairs now outweigh the original cost of the bike, meaning I'm looking at over $300 all-in. Meanwhile, this thing feels like it will eventually cost me some teeth.

xapata6• 10 years ago

Go get something cheap (but a real brand) off Craigslist. Watch some YouTube videos on how to tune it up. Buy some lube for the chain ($4).

Tiktaalik• 10 years ago

Anything from Walmart/Target or anything that is not a real bike shop is going to be incredibly low quality.

Best off going on Craigslist and buying something (probably japanese) from the mid to late 1980s that was at one point a good quality bike. Get something with chromoly steel. It will be a lot more reliable and bike mechanics and you will be better able to fix it. It'll have all ISO standard parts.

JoeAltmaier2• 10 years ago

Target and WalMart know that the average American rides a bike no more than 10 miles a year. Their bikes can do just about that.

If you plan on more than going around the block, the lesson is buy a real bike, from a bike shop.

alkonaut• 10 years ago

Fancy looking? The IKEA one has an Al frame with 25y warranty. A belt drive (more expensive than chain), front disk brake and internal rear gear hub (more expensive than cheap external derailleur).

If you look closer the IKEA bike looks much fancier. It's not hard to make a bike at $250, it's hard to make a good bike at $400.

wishinghand• 10 years ago

So expensive? I'm trying to figure out why you think you can get what this bike offers for less than $500 elsewhere.

Eric_WVGG4• 10 years ago

"Fancier-looking" in the same way that a dell laptop covered in blue leds looks fancier than a MacBook...

Taste aside, those walmart bikes are the biking equivalent of a Ford Pinto. Plenty of folks bought them and did just fine, plenty of others had engine fires.

The Sladda is a little expensive, but there is real value to the convenience of just walking in and buying "bicycle" without having to deal with the salespeople and misanthropes who staff most bike shops.

Or computer stores, to circle back... between the pared down selection, and paying a bit of a premium for a great warranty and a familiar name, and quibbles from industry types about superior specs from companies civvies have never heard of with, this feels very Apple Store. Not for me, but I'd suggest one to my parents with no hesitation.

Illotus4• 10 years ago

It is incredibly cheap for a belt drive. I've no idea if things have changed in the last couple of years, but I think cheapest I found in 2014 was around 1000€ in Europe.

analog316• 10 years ago

To me, it seems like a marketing and branding exercise.

Mainstream bikes are generic. You send a list of frame dimensions, colors, and components, to a factory in China, and they make some bikes for you. It's like getting circuit boards made.

It may seem expensive unless the value of the Ikea brand is considered. In fact, this would be just another of many "city" bikes to emerge on the market, and is only newsworthy because it's Ikea. They may be able to tap into a market for people who wouldn't go into a bike shop, but who would look through the Ikea catalog. I remember LL Bean selling bikes many years ago.

riffic• 10 years ago

500 dollars is not expensive for a quality bicycle.

tyingq2• 10 years ago

Zooming in, the belt says "Conti Drive System" on it. More info on that here: http://www.conti-drive-system.com/

They seem to be competing with the "Gates Carbon Drive", here: http://www.gatescarbondrive.com/

I know nothing of bicycles, but I do recall when automakers started replacing timing chains with timing belts. The results weren't always great, especially with interference engines where misaligned timing means bent valves.

doikor• 10 years ago

This is more like the belt drives we have had available in motorcycles for a long time just a smaller/lightweight version of it (due to much less power involved)

yupyupp7• 10 years ago

Belt driven bikes have actually been around for quite a while. They aren't nearly as common as chained bikes but are generally less greasy/dirty. They are also usually good for people who don't do a ton of bike maintenance because (unlike a chain) a belt will never rust.

BoorishBears• 10 years ago

I remember us using the hardware for a belt driven bike in a solar car race, I recall it offered higher efficiency than chain drives that were available.

Edit: Actually I think the main draw was the continuous gear ratios you got, somewhat comparable to a CVT

SixSigma2• 10 years ago

My bicycle has a stainless steel self lubricating chain but I know where you're coming from. lots of people are put off by the idea of maintenance of their not very often ridden bicycle.

They will still be disappointed when they get this one out of the garage next summer to find the tyres are flat and splitting.

userbinator• 10 years ago

More interesting is the fact that it's a 2-speed automatic. I've seen previous attempts at adding automatic transmissions to bikes but much of the reviews out there seem to mostly complain about the shift points and inability to control them. E.g. they shift at a fixed speed and there's no way to "kickdown" unlike an automotive automatic, which also takes into account engine speed and throttle position. I suppose the analogous indication for a bike would be the force being applied to the pedals.

fulafel2• 10 years ago

The 2-speed internal gear hub seems to be the same SRAM Automatix that you have probably heard of, it's been around for a while (since 2011?) and used in quite a few bikes on the market.

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/automatix.html

crispyambulance• 10 years ago

I believe it is this one (or an OEM variant): https://www.sram.com/sram/urban/products/automatix

I think its gimmicky.

If you're going to bother with internal hub gearing, you might as well make it manual-- its even easier than shifting a derailleur and you don't need to be moving. Its not like automatic 2-speed shifting is solving a real problem.

Illotus4• 10 years ago

It's an old Fichtel & Sachs design, from 70s or earlier. I think it came back to production few years back, now by Sram that bought Sachs while back.

I think there also is an old Shimano design, but that was 3 or 4 speed.

halostatue• 10 years ago

I’ve got a Norco (CityGlide) with the SRAM 2-sped automatic on it. It’s pretty good. The shift is more based on the torque applied than the speed you’re going at; coasting and then using light torque will shift back to first gear pretty quickly.

Aside from the belt drive, this looks pretty close to the CityGlide that I have, and at a similar price (on sale). (The CityGlide lists around CA$799, and I got mine at a bike show for CA$450; I’ve spent more since then, including getting fenders.) If I didn’t already have a two-speed automatic, I’d probably look at this seriously.

I also have a Dahon (Speed P8) that I use in the winter, although I might be using the Norco a bit this winter. When I replace the Dahon, I’m strongly considering a Montague full-sized folding bike.

emptybits• 10 years ago

I have a pair of friends that are serious tandem riders and they now run their premium touring tandem with Gates Carbon Drive. They switched from chain because, if you didn't know, tandem bikes with strong riders have a reputation for eating chains. (Premature stretch, leading to cog/ring wear, and eventually breakage because of the torque involved.) Belts are stronger than chains in some regards and I think high-torque applications is one of them. Witness Harley-Davidson switching to belts decades ago, away from chains. Also, on a bicycle, a belt system can shed almost a pound versus an equivalent chain-cog-ring-derailleurs setup. While being very quiet and very clean.

Downsides ... unlike an easy chain repair, you can't repair a belt in the very rare case it breaks. So you carry a spare on a tour. There are suggestions that frictional losses are higher with belt versus chain, though. And belts are apparently weaker when twisted or laterally flexed than chains, so storage and initial setup is more critical.

hwillis• 10 years ago

Good belts are less elastic than chain. Really good belts are less elastic than gears.

TheCondor• 10 years ago

Gates belts are dramatically stronger than chains. The bigger downside is the frame needs to built to accommodate the belt. The chain/belt passes through the rear triangle and you have to have a way to open it for a belt.

The transmission efficiency is probably nothing compared to the IGH and it's weight.

xapata6• 10 years ago

Belts on cars have gone through rounds of engineering improvement and are now better than chains. Perhaps the same has happened to bicycles.

ams61103• 10 years ago

By "chainless" I was first thinking something like this:

http://glendalecycles.com/bike-technology/chainless-shaft-dr...

mixmastamyk• 10 years ago

Neat, can you change gears?

sandworm101• 10 years ago

I was a little upset when honda dropped timing gears from the vfr engine. Chains are less reliable ... belts even less so. But issues of stretch and timing are irrelevant on a bicycle drive.

Fyi, the accepted horsepower-to-belt ratio for motorcycles is around 100hp for every inch of belt width. Beyond that, stretch and slipping become an issue no matter the material. Thats why sportbikes have stuck with chains.

catpolice• 10 years ago

43 lbs, ouch.

woodruffw10• 10 years ago

33, although that's still quite hefty by modern standards ;)

mrfusion2• 10 years ago

I have a 30yeae old bike and I've never done anything special with the chain. Should I be worried?

legodt6• 10 years ago

Take it in to your local bike shop if you are really worried. The biggest factor in your chain's health (assuming you have kept it in a nice dry place over the years) is how much you ride it. It's a mechanical part, so it shouldn't simply go bad in an inert state. If you are riding it regularly though take it to your local shop and have it looked over. A new chain w/ installation should only run you about 20 or so bucks for a low end chain.

yupyupp7• 10 years ago

Simply spraying some lubricant (like Teflon spray for example) onto the chain, running through all the gear combinations, and wiping the excess lubricant off the chain every couple months goes a long way. It helps your bike make less noise, extends the life of your chain, and helps keep your chain from turning totally black with grease. (Which means you're less likely to get grease stains on your pants when you ride.)

bluedino3• 10 years ago

You must not ride it much. Chains and gears are wear items on bicycles. They should be cleaned and lubricated regularly.

collyw5• 10 years ago

The gears and chain generally wear at the same rate. If you put a new chain on a worn out old set of gears they will likely slip.

lojack• 10 years ago

The chains stretch over time, and teeth of the cassette get worn. The more you ride the quicker this happens. If you take it to a shop, they can quickly measure the chain to make sure you're good. Chains are pretty common to replace and shouldn't be too expensive. Cassettes as well, they're often changed at the same time as the chain. Otherwise, regular cleaning and lubing will help extend the life.

claudius• 10 years ago

As a rule of thumb, one should replace the chain every 1000 to 5000 km, depending on the force you exert when cycling. Since the chain otherwise tends to stretch, it will eventually be misaligned with the chain wheels and start to wear those down. As the latter are more expensive to replace, it’s a good idea to replace the chain first.

stusmall2• 10 years ago

Not really. All the parts that would be damaged by that are designed to be replaced. My girlfriend did the same to her bike not too long ago. I spent about $80 and an afternoon to get it back in shape.

I've never tried to find parts for a bike that old before, so that might be the challenge. I did have a late 70's Schwinn that I converted to a fixie and had no issues there, but that was a much more invasive job. At the end of the day, I'd replaced almost everything on that frame, so I had less compatibility concerns.

mrfusion2• 10 years ago

What means flat pack?

mtdewcmu2• 10 years ago

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ready-to-assemble_furniture

legodt6• 10 years ago

Ikea's primary brand tenant is their ability to ship and store all of their goods very efficiently because they break down to pack into very flat boxes with little wasted space. For example, a big bookshelf is sold in only flat pieces so the package you leave the store with is the size of a box of cereal. This is how Ikea makes money over their competitors and is able to warehouse huge inventory at their retail locations. Customers also love it because it means you can buy a couch and load it into the back of your small car since it isn't assembled.

In this case I assume it means the bike is disassembled in key places to maintain an extremely low profile and densely packed box.

xgbi• 10 years ago

It is me or there's no rear brake? Without suspension at the front, this asks for front flips whenever I touch the brakes too hard..

tyingq2• 10 years ago

The product description says front disc brake plus rear coaster brake.

brndnmtthws• 10 years ago

90% of your braking 'power' comes from the front brake. Under hard braking in ideal conditions, this is closer to 100%. You can safely remove the rear brake from most bikes. This is a common misconception [1]. The same is true for motorcycles.

[1] http://www.sheldonbrown.com/brakturn.html

crazygringo3• 10 years ago

That is not a misconception at all, at least not for bicycles, and it's highly dangerous to suggest so.

Have you ever tried braking while going down a steep hill? (e.g. San Fran hills?) You know, to stay at a safe speed? Front brake will flip you over in an instant, I know because I've done it, even at slow speeds, when my rear brake cable snapped. After a couple tries I walked home, since bicycling without a rear brake was clearly suicidal.

And your linked article just talks about the rider flying over the handlebars because the rider isn't "bracing themselves against deceleration" -- whatever that means. I'm talking about the bike itself flipping.

fulafel2• 10 years ago

You want to cover the non-ideal circumstances too. Wet leaves, gravel, snow/ice will make the front wheel slip out from under you if you only have a front brake.

(This bike does have a rear brake too, so it's fine)

Edit: About winter biking, cables tend to freeze in the winter if you're not meticulous about maintenance. So automatic gears and coaster rear brake are good for this reason too.

kyberias• 10 years ago

That link doesn't provide any explanation why front wheel breaking is superior. Only states that it is superior. Why is it?

yupyupp7• 10 years ago

It has a coaster break (ie pedal-back break) on the rear.

woodruffw10• 10 years ago

I've been keeping an eye on this bike's development for a while, and I'm not disappointed with the outcome. It's still more expensive than a box-store bike, but I hope that availability at IKEA will make it more appealing to college students. Internal gears and a belt drive will make for more interesting maintenance, but anything beats the hi-ten 18-speed monstrosities that currently dominate college campuses.

lolptdr• 10 years ago

What's wrong with the hi-ten 18-speed bikes? Less elegant design?

Eric_WVGG4• 10 years ago

Selling the wrong bike to the wrong person. A casual cyclist should have something that is simple, comfortable and reliable.

High-tensile steal will equate a rough ride. 18 gears and a transmission has a hugely larger number of points of failure, that's just math. And requires regular maintenance, which casual cyclists don't/won't do.

IMO most riders would be best served by Dutch style built-like-a-tank cruisers (which the IKEA is) or lightweight, ultra minimal single speed "hipster" street bikes. But the typical new rider gets a mountain bike for the road, or something designed to look like a racing bike that will be rattling and rusty after one winter.

woodruffw10• 10 years ago

I was referring to the fact that most box-store bicycles are made out of cheap hi-ten steel and have 18-21 speeds.

There's nothing particularly wrong with either, they're just indicators that the bike is overall of low quality.

Terretta• 10 years ago

My favorite bike for daily short commute -- jump on, jump off, no special gears, no maintenance, dirt cheap:

http://www.bikesdirect.com/products/gravity/g29ss.htm

The wheel size and choice of fixed gearing largely just works, like a BMX was all you needed as a kid.

BozeWolf• 10 years ago

Looks fragile to me. Cheap disk brakes. Hand brakes. Gears? Expensive tires (why mountainbike style tires on a normal road?) I bet my €50 franken bike lasts longer. Its an (i guess) ~20 year old ugly bike with rear brake. But most important: it is a sort of decent brand (batavus). Most of the stuff fell off, lights broke etc. Front fender is partially broken but rear fender still ok. Except for some oil on the rusty chain and a few flat tires no maintainance at all. Its outside 24/7 for the last four years now. Will serve me fine for another few years but i need tires. Also the frontfender should be fixed. I might buy me a "new" one somewhere in 2017...

It is very comfortable to ride! I use it to cycle to my parents which live 12km away from where i live! faster than public transport :)

Bought it here and it is a bike like those ones on the photo. https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/--CYh7a1OuUk/VDVXgX2RiaI/A...

oppositelock• 10 years ago

I got one of these at a local bike shop for $450, which I think is a lot more bike for the money than the IKEA bike. Sure, no belt drive, but the internal 8-speed hub is really nice. I've been riding it for 3 years, rain and shine every day, and it's holding up great. http://www.breezerbikes.com/bikes/details/downtown-8

ashark• 10 years ago

Like all their other stuff, this is useless to me unless the local store happens to choose to stock it. Ikea's distribution/delivery system is super annoying.

cwiggs• 10 years ago

Does anyone know if the trailer can be used with other bikes? I don't see anywhere on the site where it explains how it attaches to the bike.

edit: nevermind, i missed the manual. It looks like it will attach to just about any bike as it just attaches to the bicycle's rear wheel.

kpozin• 10 years ago

IKEA's disclaimers are more apt than ever.

WARNING - Serious or fatal crashing injuries can occur from furniture tip-over. To prevent this furniture must be permanently fixed to the wall.

SixSigma2• 10 years ago

That was required from the exact tip-over happening too often

seattle_spring• 10 years ago

On a bike?

johnny996• 10 years ago

I used to be a bike mechanic, and have gotten to work 90% by bicycle for the past two decades, so I'll take a stab at some of the questions:

- Belt drives are great. They're sturdier than chains, cleaner, and something I love, quieter. The angle of the belt doesn't change, the way a chain does, which means you can add a chain guard, as this bike does. Which keeps it yet cleaner. You can ride to work without worrying about grease on your pants.

- Whatever people ride in the Netherlands, a half-decent bike is a lot more pleasant than something slapped together. The gears don't grind, the brakes work, they weigh less--which hardly affects speed, but makes them easier to lug around, take up stairs, etc. Fancy carbon is unnecessary for commuting or about-town, but $500 for a quality bike that will be easy to maintain is reasonable. I speak as someone who has three frankenbikes in the garage--slapping something together is fun, but it's like getting an $800 car. Likely to be a headache.

- That said, bike shops tend to be snobby, and try to get you to buy more than you need. Regular people don't need carbon, or 30 gears, or to spend >$1k.

- It's nice that this is an integrated system. Fenders are great (again, keep you clean), and are often a pain to get on without them rubbing or making noise. Having them built in is a big plus, and makes the price more reasonable. Likewise, the trailer, racks, and bags that are made for this are all reasonably priced, and presumably work together well.

- If there are hills near you, 2 speeds suck--I live in SF and I'd be pushing this thing up hills all day. I'm also not a fan of coaster brakes. But this is a geo/personal thing, ymmv.

- If you're going to order a bike online and want something cheaper, two people in my office bought a Schwinn Discover on Amazon for about $270, and they're great bikes. They came in good shape, partially assembled, but benefitted from my doing a quick tune-up. Even if you paid a shop to do that for $50, still a lot cheaper than the Ikea bike, which itself could probably use some fine-tuning.

tzakrajs• 10 years ago

My belt driven Scott Sub 10 slips teeth under really high torque. I dont know if this is typical of all belt driven, but they seem less robust under torque genrally.

xorcist• 10 years ago

I got one of those! I've done most of my commuting on it during the past year. Mine doesn't slip under load. Perhaps check with your bike shop that it is tensioned enough?

mmariani• 10 years ago

You should check the tension of your carbon belt. Gates has an app to help you do that. Usually is just a matter of loosening the back weel bolts, adjusting the screws that push on the axel and retightenig the weel. If your frame doesn't have the adjustment screws you should check your bike manual.

aluhut6• 10 years ago

I have question for you.

Before my actual bike, I had a mountain bike for something around 15years. I never changed or did anything to the chain. It was perfect.

Now I bought a new one. After 2 years I went to the shop to have it checked. They had to change the chain. When I told them my story with the old bike they told me: "that's how it is today. Chains are not what they were". I'm still in disbelieve. Can you confirm this?

factorialboy• 10 years ago

Here in Amsterdam, you can either buy a cheap Chinese made bike which breaks down often or an expensive but reliable Dutch bike.

Needless to say, both are likely to get stolen within the first six months. ;-)

hvdm• 10 years ago

For mountain bikes and race bikes, this might actually be true. I used to have an MTB with stainless steel sprockets. Never needed to change them. Nowadays, they are mostly aluminium, I think. Furthermore newer bikes have more gears typically. The rear cassette used to be 7 speed, now 10 or 11 is not uncommon. This means narrower chains. Also chain may be lighter now, especially the high-end ones.

Lighter bikes are definitely more fun to ride, but probably at some cost....

bichiliad• 10 years ago

TL;DR: Keeping an unworn chain on your bike is important.

I can't speak much to bike chain quality, but 15 years with one chain seems kinda exceptional. I am also relative child still, so I may just not have been alive to experience chains that last that long. Chains are tested by measuring the distance between links with a tool[0], or by checking to see how much wiggle room your chain has between links when it's on the largest cog[1]. If the distance is too great, that means the chain has "stretched" (which is a bad word for it - the pins that hold the links of your chain together wear, and the distance between each link grows, so nothing has actually stretched). Worn chains usually also start to cause wear to your cassette and cog, so getting them replaced can be important. Make sure to maintain your chain by keeping it clean, adding lubricant once in a while, etc.

[0] http://pardo.net/bike/pic/fail-004/18164_061544.jpg [1]:https://cyclingtips.com/2016/09/how-to-check-for-chain-wear-...

johnny996• 10 years ago

Depends on the bike, but can be true. Fifteen years ago you might have had 7 cogs in the back, and today you can have 10 or even 11. Which means chains are a little thinner, to accommodate the extra gears.

Also, depends on mileage not years--an old, unridden bike will be fine. You can usually get ~3k miles from a chain without having to change the cassette (the cluster of gears in the back). If you let the chain go too far, it stretches, which wears the cassette out more quickly, then you need to change both. You can judge chain wear objectively by measuring the distance between chain links.

My daily bike doesn't have have indexed gears (it doesn't click when you shift), which will last longer. I use fairly cheap chains/cassettes, and just replace both every 10k miles or so. Simpler.

exDM692• 10 years ago

Chains might not be what they used to be but the multi-geared sprockets with tight tolerances definitely aren't. It's cheaper to change the chains sooner than to wait until they wear out your sprockets badly enough that you can't fit a new chain on it and need to change both.

2 years of life out of chains sounds reasonable to me if you drive a lot. Exposure to dirt, salt (from de-icing), moisture, etc can shorten the life of your chains. Keeping them clean and well oiled will make them last longer. And using quality chains in the first place, your bike might have come with cheapo chains.

pja2• 10 years ago

Modern bikes have a greater number of gears on the cassette on the back wheel, which in turn requires a thinner chain. Thinner chains wear quicker.

It’s one of the reasons hub gears (or, for the true hipsters as the stereotype goes, a fixie) can be so completely bombproof - the lack of dérailleur gears means the chain can be made much heavier duty & lasts much, much longer.

That said, your mountain bike probably did have quite a bit of chain wear, it just hadn’t reached the point that the chain had started to skip. How many gears did it have on the cassette?

dogismycopilot• 10 years ago

If the machine doesn't have very many miles on it, it doesn't need a new chain unless it's terribly corroded or somehow damaged. If you get a new chain on a low-mileage bike, you will not need to replace the cassette/freewheel as well. If it's something with some miles on it, best bet is just to go for the whole drivetrain at once (chain rings, cassette, chain). I also used to be a bike mechanic. It's crazy to see the electronic shifting on high-end road rigs. Impressive, but crazy.

fian• 10 years ago

The chain and gear sprockets are progressively getting thinner in pursuit of lower overall bike weight. This is driven by the racing side of cycling, similar to automotive tech coming through R&D in Formula 1 racing.

A lighter bike is nicer to ride. It is less effort to accelerate from a stop and a 1kg difference will be noticeable when riding up hill.

The trade-off of the thinner drive train components is that they will wear and stretch faster. Continuing to use a stretched chain will cause accelerated wear on the sprockets. When the sprockets get too worn the teeth become very pointy and chain will start to skip on the rear cassette or drop off the chain rings.

Track bikes (fixed gear, single speeds) are the exception, as the chains are still very thick as they are designed to take more force from acceleration from the track sprinters.

sliken2• 10 years ago

15 years ago it was likely a 7 speed. In that same space todays bikes have 11-12 gears.

Additionally chains and gear teeth can wear together way past the designed for tolerances. So over 15 years things might work, but then you have to replace the chain, cassette, and chainrings. Replacing any piece alone would likely make things MUCH worse.

Generally if you ride daily it's worth replacing a chain annually, or at least checking for "stretch", which is actually wear. Chains are MUCH cheaper to replace than chainrings and cassettes.

agumonkey3• 10 years ago

Good point on the belt. I wonder if people paired that to a NuVinci CVT system: https://youtu.be/GHYGOIttuVM

  - no noise
  - no grease
  - no shift shock
  - no fixed gear

I'd love to try a bike like this. ...

asgeirn• 10 years ago

Grace makes an e-bike with this combination:

http://www.grace-bikes.com/en/bikes/mx2urban/

jolux• 10 years ago

They exist. I saw one in an issue of Popular Mechanics a few years ago. Forget the name though unfortunately. It was an e-bike with a NuVinci CVT and had these crazy wheels that had nothing but three massive spokes.

kojeovo• 10 years ago

Check out Vanhawks

EvanClarke• 10 years ago

They exist - I have one; and very nice. Mine is made by Lekker.

skrause• 10 years ago

The angle of the belt doesn't change, the way a chain does, which means you can add a chain guard, as this bike does.

That has nothing do to with belt vs. chain, you can easily combine a chain with a gear hub and add a chain guard.

protomyth2• 10 years ago

I just have a tough time believing a belt is better than a chain, when I've had two cars with timing belts break before the suggested replacement mileage, but never had the problem with a timing chain. It seems like the same would be true of a bicycle.

nrjdhsbsid2• 10 years ago

Chains are great if you drive a car to 125k miles and junk it, but I've recently started preferring belts since I try to make mine last 200.

Eventually the chain tensioners wear out and changing a chain is enough work that I usually scrap the car at that point. Belts are much easier to change, and perhaps more importantly, inspect.

scoofy• 10 years ago

Chains on bicycles do break occasionally, and there are practical reasons why a belt is better, which is they don't need to be covered in black stain-your-pants-if-you-ever-touch-it grease.

n_e• 10 years ago

A timing chain is wider, runs straight and most importantly is properly lubricated.

Also a timing belt lasts 100,000 miles and runs a lot faster than a bicyle belt.

analog316• 10 years ago

Just to be the contrarian, the timing chain failed on my Saturn at 70k miles, and the engine was destroyed.

If a bike chain breaks, the bike isn't destroyed, though it could be hazardous if you're honking up a hill when it happens. But for the most part, chains wear out and you replace them.

In my view, the benefit of the belt is not lifetime, but the lack of oil, making it cleaner. With that said, I don't have a belt drive bike, but would consider it if I ever get a new bike.

awqrre2• 10 years ago

Usually belts don't require grease... and to tell you the truth I don't see why they put that white belt guard on top...

analog316• 10 years ago

In addition to keeping your pants clean, the chainguard also helps keep your pant cuff from getting caught in the chain.

david-given3• 10 years ago

My elder brother used to build bicycles out of bits he pulled out of a river. Like, literally.

He once built a bicycle that was so awful that it lasted him a complete undergraduate session at university, then a complete postgraduate session at a different university, and then I got it and it lasted me a complete (four-year) undergraduate session at a third university, and didn't get stolen once.

I only managed to get rid of it by leaving it, unlocked, in the hall of residence bike sheds, over the summer vacation. Even then it was possible the bin men just threw it away. But I like to think that it got thrown back into a river, and is waiting to rise again in future generations and make some other poor student's life a misery...

castratikron• 10 years ago

Back in college I got rid of my old bike by just leaving it unlocked outside. It was gone in a few days.

_Wintermute• 10 years ago

A negative for belt drives, especially on a bike this price, is the cost of replacement parts. I think a shimano nexus 3sp would be a much more sensible option, though obviously it's not as striking and wouldn't get to the HN front page.

trgn• 10 years ago

Good list. I'd add two other pros: - unisex frame - upright riding position

colanderman• 10 years ago

The angle of the belt doesn't change, the way a chain does, which means you can add a chain guard, as this bike does.

To be fair, the angle of a chain doesn't change either, if you have an internally geared hub, as one must with belts.

mianos• 10 years ago

I saw this in the store on the weekend. The bike is very very heavy. All well and good if you live in Holland but if you don't, this is an expensive sea anchor. (I commute every day on a bike worth less than fifty bucks and ride 5k a year on my road bike).

zobzu• 10 years ago

- 15kg is not light even for a tank build.

- 2 speeds 26in wheels addes to that weight ensure that you can only ride flat terrain, specially if you aren't a fit experienced cyclist...

- disc brakes are great when good quality but also require regular maintenance and truing unlike traditional brakes

- bikes twice the price don't have 25 limited frame warranty. they have life warranty.

so basically whats good about this bike?

well, the belt drive. thats it. at this price, i dont know if I'd recommend it given the issues and that nobody has really tested the bike yet

antisthenes• 10 years ago

Yeah, as a person who grew up riding fixies, because nothing else was available and then having finally tried riding a proper multi-geared 24 speed bike, I'm never going back to anything less than 8 speeds.

The flexibility it gives is amazing. You can basically ride on 30%+ inclines by shifting speeds (albeit slowly). I don't see myself being able to do that on a heavy 15kg 2 speeder, and if I have to get off a bike, then by definition it failed its purpose.

gonzo• 10 years ago

Still riding my 1992 Gary Fisher "Super Caliber".

milkey_mouse• 10 years ago

WARNING - Serious or fatal crashing injuries can occur from furniture tip-over. To prevent this furniture must be permanently fixed to the wall.

Somehow I doubt permanently fixing one's bicycle to the wall will help.

peterburkimsher• 10 years ago

Belts and chains both break.

Ordering a replacement belt will take several days, if not weeks.

Removing the broken link from a chain takes a few minutes with a portable tool that I carry with me. I can still get to the office on time.

Failure-mode operation is more important to me than keeping my hands clean. Sure, my bike's noisy and dirty, but it's a whole lot faster than walking.

Flat Pack Chainless Bicycle from IKEA

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