GoPro shows its vulnerability after horrific Q3 earnings

https://techcrunch.com/2016/11/03/gopro-trading-halted-as-company-misses-revenue-expectations-by-23/

by tomjacu48 • 10 years ago

170 198 10 years ago

niftich• 10 years ago

They have a drone?

Oh, they do, but it doesn't ship until the end of November. The Engadget review (dated today) [1] presents a good look at the device and how it compares to the competition -- different trade-offs. Nicer if you're in the GoPro ecosystem, but the competition is a better flyer.

So perhaps the market for rugged cameras is fairly saturated by their own products, and the aerial market has partially sailed while they were working on theirs?

[1] https://www.engadget.com/2016/11/03/gopro-karma-review/

giarc2• 10 years ago

I think GoPro suffers from two problems.

1. Many people buy these camera's that never use them, or use them a few times but realize editing videos takes longer than they hoped it would. So after a while of non use, they sell the camera.

2. They built a good product, one that lasts and is therefore good for the used market. People are comfortable buying a used GoPro because they know it's rugged and well built.

So GoPro's have a good resale value and therefore many people that might normally buy a new one, instead turn to the used market which doesn't help GoPro at all.

lbotos• 10 years ago

Re: Video editing, whoever figures out how to make that _super easy_ is going to make a TON of money.

chmars• 10 years ago

I belong to group 1 – but because of the low battery endurance of the newer models. And the touch GUI and the apps aren't that great either. If I don't need a rugged camera, I can directly use my iPhone.

pravda• 10 years ago

I think people have just figured out that competitors offer much more value.

pja2• 10 years ago

Equally a strong resale market should encourage people to try them out because the risk factor is relatively low. Don’t get on with it / use it? Sell it on & only have to eat a relatively small proportion of the price you paid.

mkagenius• 10 years ago

They built a good product, one that lasts and is therefore good for the used market.

They should sell like apple - "we are launching best ever go pro, 67% brighter than any other go pro" lol

odbol_6• 10 years ago

If only they made crappier products that break more often, at least then their stock shareholders would think it's a good company. This exemplifies everything that's wrong with capitalism and planned obsolescence.

noarchy3• 10 years ago

People are comfortable buying a used GoPro because they know it's rugged and well built.

My GoPro 2 is still going quite strong, despite having hit the asphalt on at last two occasions at high speed (well, high for a bicycle) due to their plastic mounts breaking. I switched to a third-party, metal mount, and haven't looked back.

ghaff4• 10 years ago

I'm not convinced that GoPro is unusually affected by #2 but resale values seem relatively strong, so maybe to some degree.

There's also more competition.

I'm inclined to think point 1 is significant though. This seems like one of those products/product categories that was a hot ticket for a while. Then most people who bought them realized that they didn't actually jump off cliffs and, after the 10th time, the video of them going down an intermediate ski run was sorta boring and not really worth the trouble to make. So, like many fads, it didn't go away but it wasn't a must-have gadget for the would-be daredevil (or those who wanted to think of themselves in those terms).

gamble• 10 years ago

GoPro 2 was rock-solid, but 3 and 4 had huge quality problems. Terrible customer service as well. I used to like GoPro, but since the GoPro 2 they've completely soured me. I don't know if the GoPro 5 is any better, but the Amazon reviews are terrible.

mhb2• 10 years ago

So GoPro's have a good resale value and therefore many people that might normally buy a new one, instead turn to the used market which doesn't help GoPro at all.

That's not necessarily true. The counterargument is that having a good resale value allows you to charge more for your new sales because of the added value.

jayjay71• 10 years ago

Shred Video (http://shredvideo.com/) is trying to solve the editing problem.

Spooky23• 10 years ago

Plus, the whole filming yourself riding your bike or skiing thing is a fad that people grow tired of.

My Facebook page hit peak GoPro video 3 years ago.

kordless• 10 years ago

DJI now says early Mavic Pro orders should be processed in “seven to eight weeks”

I was going to talk smack about getting my Mavic before GoPro shipped theirs, but now I'm just sad.

bambax3• 10 years ago

The DJI Mavic is sooo much better -- although, apparently, DJI is also experiencing major shipping delays.

patorjk• 10 years ago

From what I can tell, I think you're right about them being too late into the drone market. I've been researching Karma and DJI Mavic Pro because I'm planning on buying a drone. Most reviews say Mavic is much better, and some reviews have been absolutely scathing towards Karma (ex: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xmqthgCvxk).

NumberCruncher2• 10 years ago

Company misses revenue expectations or revenue expectation misses reality? Hmm...

jkestner2• 10 years ago

For better or worse, it's partially on the company to manage expectations. Amazon does a great job of this, which is why it can get away with minimal profit most quarters.

NumberCruncher2• 10 years ago

Have you ever googled "amazon offshore profits"? Maybe you should...

totalZero6• 10 years ago

Agreed. Managing expectations into earnings is a large part of a CFO, treasurer, or other investor relations officer's job.

I do admit that it's necessarily hard for GoPro to do this, because they're a high-tech, discretionary consumer product -- the competitor landscape is always shifting and advancing, and a ton of factors affect consumer spending choices. GoPro is not a networking company with ten big and slow-moving clients. Something as simple as gas price hikes (less discretionary budget), or a new wearable product released by a different company (drains from "cool new toy" budget), could affect their sales.

Stocks like GPRO, FIT, etc are really hard to analyze, for these reasons and others.

Then again, I guess you could say that makes the task of managing expectations all the more important.

r00fus• 10 years ago

Nice point. Companies don't miss Wall St. expectations. Expectations miss on companies' guidance. (now if they didn't hit their own numbers that'd be a fail).

GavinMcG• 10 years ago

Who halts the trading? Is it a normal circumstance before earnings reports are released, or does it have something to do with the magnitude of the miss?

topbanana2• 10 years ago

There are circuit breakers operated by the exchange in case of significant and sustained orderbook imbalance (ie a stock is being hammered)

These are today's on NASDAQ http://www.nasdaqtrader.com/trader.aspx?id=TradeHalts

conistonwater• 10 years ago

That page lists the reasons as T1 (halt pending release of material news), and T2 (halt while news is being disseminated). So then it's not a circuit breaker (T5?)?

I wonder how exactly that works. What kind of news does it apply to? Is it common? Can a company ask for a trading halt on its own before it releases bad results?

cmdrfred4• 10 years ago

I never knew this. Have you ever noticed when you look deeper at any system created and run by people who claim to love the free market, it is loaded with anti free market regulation? Who is the stock exchange to tell me I can't sell my asset?

topbanana2• 10 years ago

Perhaps the chinese clones are denting sales? I own two GoPros but I understand the clones are very nearly as good, for a much lower price.

Crosseye_Jack• 10 years ago

The latest model is a good improvement [1] but I've yet to try it out my self

[1] https://youtube.com/watch?v=VTx9lYpfWSg

tonyplee2• 10 years ago

Agree, one can easily study the clone's features, price and customer reviews here:

https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_c_1_12?url=search-alia...

They use the same SOC, camera sensors. There are tons of HD Videos comparison reviews on Youtube.

joshu• 10 years ago

I am told the GoPro is very similar to the ambarella reference board. Are you saying these are similar? Because that would be very useful.

uw_rob• 10 years ago

Man you aren't kidding about those being clones. The packaging even looks similar.

nullnilvoid• 10 years ago

Ironically, GoPro is trying to clone drones from a Chinese company called DJI which dominates commercial drone market.

djsumdog• 10 years ago

Why is not selling enough a bad thing? You make a good product, everyone loves it and don't need another one? This is why I haven't replaced my original Pebble either. I remember Intel hitting this same type of market/stockholder crunch.

Hello: not selling more stuff is A GOOD THING! It means your last generation was really good (well, if people are still using it and not buying another one). It means you can lower factory worker numbers and pay them more.

So a company that makes shitty products you have to refresh is going to do _better_. This cuts to the core of the entire economy of growth and economy of scale problems with our current economy. There needs to be a way to reward companies for making good products that last forever instead of them having to pump out crappy products every two years to stay afloat. (I'm looking at you Pebble Time Round!)

epistasis• 10 years ago

If you're going to ask that, you also need to ask why needing to halt trading is a bad thing. "Good" and "bad" are value judgements that change in different contexts.

A large component of stock price is the expectation of profits for share holders in the future. If those expectations change, and the stock price plummets, it's not necessarily good or bad in the sense of a product being good or bad, or a company being good or bad.

nzjrs2• 10 years ago

Well put. If someone can't find happiness in gopro being a successful 100mil company instead of a 1bil company, then we have become unmoored somewhere

totalZero6• 10 years ago

Needing to halt trading is not necessarily a bad thing. Sometimes you see trading halts that precede large upside moves, and sometimes the stock doesn't move at all when it reopens.

Not all trading halts involve limit-down circuit breakers or short-sale restrictions.

tyingq• 10 years ago

It's a bad thing for a publicly traded company that doesn't offer a dividend. Basically, investors want your company to either grow (so share prices grow), or offer a dividend. If you can't offer either, then an investor might as well invest in something less risky.

A privately held company that has relatively flat YoY sales, but is at least able to raise prices to match cost of living increases would be "good" in many cases (depends on the investor expectations, again).

sschueller• 10 years ago

Go pro is very good at marketing them selves however the cameras are not much better if not worse than many way cheaper competitors.

The drone would be a big hit if Dji didn't just blow the roof of with their incredible mavic pro that came on the market this week. It is by far the best consumer drone available and smaller than the go pro.

bendauphinee• 10 years ago

I've seen both the Mavic and the Karma, and I have to say they hit different use cases.

The GoPro is for when you want a drone that can carry your camera that you can also detach and use with their stabilized handle, which you can then take the GoPro out of completely and use on it's own.

The Mavic is for people who want a smaller drone.

Both are good tech, and I plan on getting both of them within the next year, but the GoPro one is going to be my first of the two.

VilleSalonen• 10 years ago

The concept of GoPro Karma is intriguing but based on some early reviews it is a horrible drone. For example see this review by iPhonedo: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xmqthgCvxk

Based on this video the price, stability, amount of features and just about everything is worse than my old DJI Phantom 3 Standard.

I wished GoPro Karma would be good but based on reviews I'm not impressed and probably end up going with Mavic Pro even though I just bought GoPro Hero 5.

pja2• 10 years ago

Tom Scott was very positive about the new GoPro Hero5 fwiw: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VTx9lYpfWSg

vacri2• 10 years ago

Tom Scott's "Things You Might Not Know" series is extraordinary. In a sea of internet tidbits and factbites that you've seen umpteen times before, his videos are almost always new things I've never heard about before; certainly less than 10% would be my guesstimate of things I knew of beforehand. Definitely worth checking out.

neves4• 10 years ago

Great review. For the first time I want to upgrade my GoPro. If it now has good low light video capture, it would be the perfect camera.

adamnemecek• 10 years ago

They went from 86.97 on Oct 4, 2014 to 11.94 now. Isn't looking too good.

mikestew7• 10 years ago

I remember having an alert set for if GPRO ever bounced up from (let's say) $45. It hit that number and never bounced, it just kept on going down. I consider my GoPro to be my worst tech purchase in the last ten years, but as a mostly technical trader I'll occasionally (though rarely) buy a stock despite my feelings about their offerings. But GPRO demonstrates that, once again, I should stick to companies that sell things I like.

acchow• 10 years ago

If only I bought shares of tech purchases I've made. I buy very few tech gadgets, but the few I buy always seem to have a great share price trajectory...

jkestner2• 10 years ago

Yeah, I bought some as well. Can't win them all. I believed their vision of being a lifestyle company that could weather the whims of the tech market. That may be so, but looks like they never expanded their market, and their user experience didn't evolve to suit consumers.

OTOH, if I bought what I really liked, I would've bought HTC and stagnated. The Re action camera is an excellent value and gets the experience right.

totalZero6• 10 years ago

Have you read One Up on Wall Street, by Peter Lynch? He talks about using your feelings about a company's products as a component of investment decision-making. You may find it interesting.

https://www.amazon.com/One-Up-Wall-Street-Already/dp/0743200...

neves4• 10 years ago

Their new product looks great. Time to buy (stocks:-).

mikestew7• 10 years ago

I try not to generalize personal experience to a company's stock price. But in GoPro's case I'm picturing a bunch of folks like me who bought one, and then swore to never again buy anything with GoPro's name on it. And those people tell their friends who are considering an "action camera". So you end up with a segment of customers from whom you'll never extract another dime, plus all of the people who might have bought one had they not spoken with current customers. (I'd recommend the Garmin offerings if you're in the market.)

I won't reiterate my complaints with my GoPro camera because I've bitched enough already on HN. The summary is that it is probably one of the most disappointing, and frankly, aggravating pieces of tech I've purchased in the last decade. It's not a matter of "cheap Chinese knock-offs" being almost good enough. It's that what the Chinese are copying wasn't all that good to begin with, so it's not terribly hard to match on quality and then undercut massively on price.

mtw4• 10 years ago

I haven't read your account. What's bad about GoPro?

Note : I have an action camera, but it's from Garmin

noarchy3• 10 years ago

Note : I have an action camera, but it's from Garmin

Fwiw, I own a GoPro, but use Garmin's video editing software. Not only do I find it easier to whip up quick edits, but I can also overlay my Garmin Edge cycling data.

mikestew7• 10 years ago

My main complaint is that it's difficult to determine camera state. My main use case is having it mounted to a motorcycle where I can reach the buttons but can't safely or easily see the indicator LEDs. Is it on? Is it recording? I have some awesome videos of me sitting on a curb in front of a gas station drinking a Gatorade because I thought it was recording the whole time, and it turns out that when I pulled up and stopped the recording I was actually turning it on. That can and should be fixed by making a button that isn't so mushy. Even with bare fingers I can't tell you if I really turned it on without looking at the lights. With motorcycle gloves, it's a complete (and as noted above, often wrong) guess.

Okay, I'll strap my Pebble to the handlebars as there's a GoPro app for the Pebble. But the Pebble needs to go to the iPhone, which then talks to the GoPro iOS app, which then talks to the camera. Yeah, you can see where this is going: I spent more time trying to get all those devices to stay connected than I did riding.

Fine, I didn't want to do it, but I'll buy your $80 remote with status LCD. That piece of shit didn't work any better. I spent most of the time looking at an animated WiFi icon because it couldn't find the camera literally 50% of the time. If it did find it, it often wouldn't stay found. A single company made the hardware and firmware on both ends, and they still can't get them to stay connected.

Additionally, the thing eats batteries. I wouldn't mind so much if there was a way to power the thing while its in the case. There is a way, but it'll cost $65 for a waterproof case with USB port from a third-party vendor. I bought one. And about half the time when the bike fires up and pumps power to that connection, the GoPro's little pea brain gets confused and needs a reboot.

This is the kind of stuff I expect when I bought the cheap Chinese knock-off instead of the name brand. But I did buy the name brand, and specifically for this reason. And I end up still having the cheap Chinese knock-off experience, only at name-brand prices.

bnchrch• 10 years ago

I would like to echo your sentiment with my own story.

I've owned a GoPro since Christmas of 2014. After less than a year of use the camera would start washing out videos while recording with flares of green and pink then freezing typically after 11 seconds of filming.

When I looked on support forums I found that this was a known issue with my GoPro version. However GoPro would not admit the defect and after talking with support they could do nothing for me.

I decided to keep using the camera as I use it for primarily 1 second videos. 2 months later I take it diving, the housing fails at 30 feet (its rated to 120 feet). I call support again:

I'm offered 10% off my next GoPro.

In my opinion GoPro is a dishonest company who does nothing to stand behind its products of which their price does not match their dismal quality.

ProTip: Ebay sells action cameras with all the same features, better build quality for a third of the price

gbog• 10 years ago

I have a Ricoh wg-m1 which is not too bad.

kevin_thibedeau• 10 years ago

I won't reiterate my complaints with my GoPro camera because I've bitched enough already on HN.

Yeah. Too much of that and they might issue another fraudulent DMCA takedown.

bobjordan• 10 years ago

In this case, the Chinese originally were not copying anything, GoPro just sourced the cameras from a CM here in Shenzhen, putting the GoPro name on it. I suspect the relationship stayed much the same through Hero 2 & 3, with the CM driving the design improvements in the camera.

mikestew7• 10 years ago

You know, I was tempted in one of my several comments in this thread to make some snarky comment about how GoPro is a "cheap Chinese knockoff" that they just silkscreened "GoPro" onto. But that seemed unnecessarily mean and petty, and I only half-suspected it.

But I'll be damned, according to you I was right.

fezz• 10 years ago

Skylight Digital was the ODM, AFAIK

This was from a shipping manifest search a few years ago.

barrkel3• 10 years ago

GoPro is a poor shape to use with motorbikes; helmet mounts in particular are ludicrous. Any particular reason you didn't consider Drift? Fairly happy with mine, using it as a helmet-cam.

totalZero6• 10 years ago

which drift do you have? i'm in the market for a helmet cam and was strongly considering a hero 5...until i saw this thread.

mikestew7• 10 years ago

Any particular reason you didn't consider Drift?

Because, as I've outlined elsewhere in this thread, I'm an idiot who thought the name brand was a safe bet and didn't do enough research.

That said, most of the time it's mounted to the front crash bar or a saddlebag. Not a big fan of protrusions on my helmet.

kbart2• 10 years ago

Thanks for recommendation! I was recently looking for a helm mount camera for my rides, but all I could find were these ridiculous looking GoPro-like mounts.

usrusr3• 10 years ago

You have no idea how disappointed I am of the absence of said helmet mounts in a stereo setup. Is it really that difficult to merge the streams of two imperfectly aligned cameras with large parallax? We are missing out on the best Disney trademark infringement lawsuit ever.

bartread• 10 years ago

This. I first heard of GoPro back in 2010. Scroll forward a few months and I'm on sabbatical doing a couple of months snowboarding and a few guys I meet along the way have them. Needless to say I am entirely unimpressed:

- The rectangular box shape of them is bulky and awkward, particularly when you add the protective case on top, and seems particularly ridiculous compared with other sleeker helmet cam designs,

- The mountings seem prone to work loose. One guy spent most of the time with his helmet mounted GoPro filming the ground in front of him and he had to keep fettling the thing to get it back into place.

- Turns out GoPros had the time had terrible dynamic range so everything that was covered in snow looked the same uniform white, particularly on brighter days. Picture quality sucked. This has improved somewhat in subsequent updates but I would have been fuming if I'd dropped the £300 (plus the cost of accessories on one).

- When I did look at buying one knowing exactly which accessories I'd need was confusing.

- Just way too fiddly to use when wearing any kind of gloves, which is hopeless for what's supposed to be an action cam,

- In general seemed to lead to an awful lot of faffing around by owners; to me it just looked like one more piece of gear to worry about that was mostly going to serve as an annoying time-vampire.

Apart from the picture quality issues, none of the above has changed as far as I know, only now there are so many extant models it's even more confusing trying to figure out which to buy.

Part of me dies inside every time somebody gets out a GoPro (or one of its many clones) on a ski/snowboard trip because you just know it's going to lead to an inordinate amount of buggering around.

I fully admit, #firstworldproblems, but as far as I'm concerned GoPro suck: they're an expensive waste of time and money.

In the end, for various reasons (mostly because I wanted a camera for my motorcycle), I caved and bought a Garmin VIRB. This has the following advantages:

- Doesn't need (quite) so much supporting paraphernalia, primarily because unless you plan on going diving it's waterproof enough without requiring an additional case,

- Overall it's very robust,

- Easy to switch on and off with gloves on (there's a big slider switch on the side of the camera),

- Picture quality and dynamic range are good, even in very bright conditions,

- Generally sleeker design.

I've used it for motorcycling, skiing, and as a dashcam.

All of that said it some bad points:

- Still a certain amount of confusion over which you actually need for your chosen activity,

- Mounting brackets are somewhat fiddly and can work loose,

- Battery life isn't great,

- Batteries take hours to charge,

- Apart from record on/off, the interface is kind of clunky,

And there's one ugly point:

- The software it runs is really unstable, and regularly crashes; this can be extremely annoying when it misses the crucial piece of action because of it.

So, overall, I still wouldn't buy again.

deelowe• 10 years ago

Same for me and my brother. Stupid proprietary application for file transfer and editing. Extremely confusing model line. Crazy expensive assessories. Never again.

sjg007• 10 years ago

The ui sucks..

mangeletti• 10 years ago

This coming Monday's low, in my humble opinion, not investment advice, is the best time to buy GPRO.

mtw4• 10 years ago

Dnd future doesn't look good. Their star product is not as advanced as the new DJI mavic pro. The new gopro 5 don't have new amazing features (5k, raw recording, much better dynamic range etc.), it's mostly a small bump from the 4 series.

Unless you are a total GoPro fan, there's no reason you would buy the newly released products.

odbol_6• 10 years ago

Does the Mavic pro have a detachable camera stabilizer? That's the reason I would buy GoPro's drone.

mtw4• 10 years ago

The Mavic Pro doesn't have one.

You are right, a gimbal is a very smart addition. Put it on the backpack for skiiing or on a bike to record smooth rides.

My biggest problem however is the lack of "intelligent" flying with GoPro's drone. Most people overestimate their flying skills. It's very easy to have a collision, loose your done. It's also difficult to do subject tracking. Many find themselves with a broken drone after just a week of use. On the other hand, the Mavic Pro has their most advanced visualisation technology + sensors to make your job easy.

If you are confident with the GoPro drone, I would recommend purchasing it from a store with a liberal return/exchange policy. Try it for one week and record a few videos. And then compare with the mavic pro

agumonkey• 10 years ago

I don't know what market they want, but I never heard mavic outside of a few web pages. On the other hand gopro is becoming synonymous with small and sturdy camera. Maybe mavic will end up buying the brand.

mtw4• 10 years ago

mavic is the product. DJI is the company with $1B revenue in 2015. It's the world leader in drones (consumer or industrial)

jpeg_hero• 10 years ago

commodity hardware -> build a brand...

find out maybe works with soda water (red bull) but ppl don't take the $100 overprice hit on commodity camera just for brand feeling...

how many wingsuit enthusiast are there anyways ?!?

ryhamz• 10 years ago

Speaking of Red Bull, how has someone not come out with a cheaper alternative in the US.

Not talking about other energy drinks. Korea has Hot 6ix, which is way cheaper and goes for the Red Bull taste.

amyjess• 10 years ago

Huh, the title in the URL is less sensationalized than the actual headline: "gopro-trading-halted-as-company-misses-revenue-expectations-by-23"

jotjotzzz8• 10 years ago

They have one niche product that is very expensive. It does not offer anything new or extraordinary to the experience other than what it should do: take video. Customers can get a product that is similar for 70% less price (from China cough). It's no surprise.

pedalpete• 10 years ago

Is there a valid reason to describe "from China cough"?

I believe GoPro cameras are manufactured in China.

colmvp• 10 years ago

Yeah I don't get the derision. On my desk are multiple electronic items (laptop, speakers, mobile phone, mouse, keyboard, external hard drive) that are all either made in or assembled in China.

xor1• 10 years ago

Can anyone recommend a good GoPro model (or similar product) to pick up for use on a helmet? Specifically while cycling. I once had a Contour, but lost it, and never replaced it.

shash7• 10 years ago

The new gopro session is looking good. For a higher quality one, get the hero silver.

If you're looking for mounts, stick the standard mount on your helmet or use a 'wraparound' mount on the handlebars. (Get one of these)[https://www.amazon.com/Black-Common-Outdoor-Sports-Session/d...] You get a ton of accessories for cheap.

EA• 10 years ago

I second the Session recommendation. There's one button to press and it "just works". The session is lightweight too, so it will create less torque on your head/neck than other cameras.

sorenjan• 10 years ago

I haven't used on myself, but the Garmin Virb cameras [0] seems to be popular with cyclists. I'm guessing partly because Garmin was already a popular brand because of their bicycle computers, and partly because the cameras have built in GPS and what Garmin calls "G-Metrix" which enables some fancy statistics on your video [1].

[0] https://virb.garmin.com/en-US

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BI0ltAj3hzM

deepnotderp• 10 years ago

Problem is that the people who want gopros already have them and their drone got destroyed by the dji mavic.

proee2• 10 years ago

The New Iphone 7 with iP67 water-resistance rating will negatively affect GoPro sales. People will likely bring their iPhone to the beach/lake if they trust it doesn't get damaged by an accidental water splash.

brandon272• 10 years ago

Water resistance seems like only one of many advantages a GoPro has. I would never consider doing with what my phone what I've seen many people do when they are tossing around a GoPro.

proee2• 10 years ago

This it true for extreme situations, but I do believe with the new iPhone, people we be less likely to use a GoPro, if even just 10-20% less it does affect the bottom line.

foolfoolz• 10 years ago

the GoPro camera is the best camera I own. I don't need a DSLR, I'm not a serious photographer, I'll use my phone for regular pictures. but I really enjoy having a high quality camera for surfing, snowboarding, scuba diving, and slow mo

but it's so well made, and it's always in the case (so I can put it on a mount) that ot still Looks feels brand new. I bet it will last me 5 more years

neves4• 10 years ago

I agree. It just fail at low light. But now I travel just with the GoPro and my phone. Nothing heavy anymore.

Fr0styMatt88• 10 years ago

So, I'm starting a VR project that's going to need 180-degree (or thereabouts) stereoscopic video. Ready to spend money on cameras and actually get started.

"Cool! This should be straightforward, everyone uses GoPro cameras for that, so a I'll need to buy two GoPros!" was my immediate thought. All ready to give GoPro my money.

Oh, but they dropped stereo genlock after the 3+..... wait what?!?! VR filmmaking is one of those things that people are heavily experimenting with. Why would they purposely drop this segment when it's only just starting to pick up? This is a segment not filled by their ultra-expensive 360 rigs.

So off to eBay I go. Hmmmm.... do I need a 3, a 3+, a 3+ Black? A 2? Is there a 2 Pro or something? Do I need the 3D kit or the dual-Hero kit? Does it even still work with the latest firmware?

It's so confusing that even some people on eBay honestly weren't sure what they were selling.

There are a few things that could fill this niche, all right now frustratingly in 'pre-order' or 'might be out the end of this year' state. Yet GoPro had this and they just.... dropped it.

Too many different models in the past, just far too confusing.

For the record, I've gone with used GoPro Hero 2s from eBay. Just waiting on the sync cable now. Will see how that works out :)

carbocation• 10 years ago

I think the Kodak Pixpro is purpose built for what you're describing, for what it's worth: https://store.mypixpro.com/?route=product/product&path=70&pr...

thrownblown2• 10 years ago

off topic, but isn't 3DR done?

bronson• 10 years ago

You think selecting one is confusing? Wait until you try to use it!

ge962• 10 years ago

Not 180, but you could buy that $15,000.00 go pro camera set for 360 video haha

Although I think truly immersive 360 video would require not only stereoscopic eg. Dual cameras per fov, but also that new camera technology that captures at multiple depths of field. Litho or something don't know what it's called. Then you can focus on different focal points of the video like up close or super faraway

initram• 10 years ago

You're thinking of the Lytro light field cameras.

https://lytro.com/

mianos• 10 years ago

You want to look at the Xiaomi Yi 4k. They have an API for IOS and Android to do exactly this. https://www.facebook.com/groups/YIOpenAPI/ Just say yes to excess: http://panotek360rigs.com/product/hydra360-xiaomi-yi-2-4k/ Also, on the FB forum, there are a bunch of experimental rigs and some apps.

kitanata• 10 years ago

If you're doing any sort of software development requiring cameras GoPro is definitely NOT the way to go. We use Point Grey for our camera equipment. Not only are the cameras very high quality, but their API is a developer's dream.

Unlike GoPro's overreaching application process, $100, or $1k fee, and an extremely limited API/features, these guys practically shove as much documentation and libraries down your throat that they can. I fucking love Point Grey cameras.

https://www.ptgrey.com/blackfly-usb3-vision-cameras

jimcsharp• 10 years ago

Thank you for this. GoPros have been challenging and we're looking for alternatives for the next camera rig we build. One nice thing about GoPro cameras that I think I would miss with these is their built in WiFi. It's perfect for ad-hoc field laptop scenarios.

adilparvez• 10 years ago

Kind of related: 360 real time stitched video http://www.argondesign.com/products/argon360/

bitmapbrother• 10 years ago

It's gotta be tough going from ,,, to ,,

kylehotchkiss• 10 years ago

It's too bad they didn't capitalize on the opportunities to partner with Facebook for live video. And their API is a joke. If they would open it up, developers might make something that would drive sales.

1024core• 10 years ago

What else would you expect? The CEO took his money when the stock hit ~100 [1]. He didn't even wait for the lockup period to expire. The suckers left holding the stock have ridden it to the bottom, expecting it to takeoff any moment now... but if the CEO thought it would reach ~100, wouldn't he have waited?

[1] http://money.cnn.com/2014/10/02/investing/gopro-charity-shar...

dorianm• 10 years ago

Still have mine somewhere, just too annoying to charge and doesn't last long, then I need to use their app to get the files etc etc. Just too much hassle for a simple use case.

(Why didn't they use a standard charging cable...)

BinaryIdiot• 10 years ago

I interviewed there a few months back and I gotta say I'm not surprised. Granted all of the people I met were really smart and seemed to know what they were doing but at the same time the product direction was...confusing to say the least. They also want to get more services and software going to monetize but it wasn't clear how they were going to monetize any of it just that their software needs to improve and be usable by other cameras not just there's.

It sounded like a cool place to work but I was a bit worried about their next 2-3 years.

gk1• 10 years ago

I almost bought the new Session just a few weeks ago. After seeing these comments, I'm glad I didn't.

The reason I didn't buy is I realized how much they are screwing people by charging crazy prices for essential add-ons. $xx for a basic mount (a piece of plastic), $xx for a bolt to connect to the mount, $xx for a case, $xx for a charging kit, and so on and so on. You thought you were buying a $400 gadget but suddenly your cart total is 2x that.

Florin_Andrei• 10 years ago

A Xiaomi Yi can do 1080p60 for $90 or less - and works fine. It's about the size of a GoPro. I use it as a helmet cam on my motorcycle.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UAYgVvbXkLU

I made my own helmet mount for the Yi:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k3w-twe4seQ

A Mobius ActionCam can do 1080p30 or 720p60 at $75 and it's even smaller - about the size of a matchbox, or keychain dongle. I use it on mini-quadcopters; my son put it on a model rocket. It still works. :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tbh2O4_UWT0

Nexxxeh• 10 years ago

Seconding a Yi. Especially with the newer firmwares. (It'll do 2k video capture that upscale reasonably to 4k supposedly, but I use 1080p).

The app is a bit clunky, but the camera is spectacular value compared to the GoPros near the price bracket.

spyspy• 10 years ago

I'm almost positive threads about GoPro are stalked by Xaomi employees. Almost every comment is a plug.

totalZero6• 10 years ago

Funny you should mention plugs for Xiaomi. I picked up the Mi Smart Socket Plug the other day...have to say, I love it. I can set timers and remotely control my appliances from the comfort of my phone. Best of all, I don't have to interfere with the appearance and design of my home's interior.

http://xiaomi-mi.com/mi-smart-home/xiaomi-mi-smart-socket-pl...

kogepathic• 10 years ago

Or Xiaomi products are simply better than GoPro's.

I was in the market for a 4K action camera and ended up buying the Yi 4K because the GoPro model only offered interpolated 4K, while the Yi offers full 30FPS 4K.

I won't say the Yi is perfect. The Xiaomi app stopped connecting to the camera after an update (and hasn't connected successfully since), and early firmwares had issues with 4K recording randomly stopping.

But they've since fixed nearly all the stability issues with subsequent firmware releases.

Overall the camera is loads better than anything that GoPro had on the market at the time, and the camera only cost me $250 with accessories (waterproof case, spare battery), plus $70 to DHL for customs and duties.

I'm not a Xiaomi shill, I'm just very pleased with the product I bought.

kbart2• 10 years ago

Or maybe Xaomi is really a cheaper and better alternative? No, I don't work at Xaomi (or even on that continent).

gigatexal2• 10 years ago

Meh, I am buying some shares of FitBit and GoPro tomorrow as either could get acquired or bust, but at > 25% discounts i'll take that risk as the potential upside is too good to miss. Purely speculation on my part

neves4• 10 years ago

And their new product looks great. For the first time I lust to upgrade my Hero 3+.

gigatexal2• 10 years ago

everyone has a hobby -- i trade stocks and have done pretty good for myself. They both picked up a few percentage points from their after-earnings lows. Either they get bought, go kaput, or soar again a-la AMD in their most recent restructuring (selling HQ and leasing it back, paying down debt,etc.); either way I win: I win because this is fun, and I win if the shares rise.

hasperdi• 10 years ago

Bear in mind that GoPro's is a company with the most shorted stocks in the market.

stouset2• 10 years ago

It's only at a discount if you have a naïve that there's a price it "should" be trading at "normally".

Trading individual stocks as a retail investor is a sucker's game.

cromulent• 10 years ago

Anyone have any experience with the Nikon KeyMission action cameras?

ktamiola• 10 years ago

Crama drone was a massive flop. DJI have simply smeared them. The latest camera releases are not innovative at up. They are desperately trying to catch up!

jliptzin• 10 years ago

I bought a GoPro a couple years ago because I was considering buying the stock as it was about to be listed. Took it on a ski trip. It was one of the worst pieces of consumer electronics I've ever used. Just atrocious. It seems they took every wrong turn possible whenever faced with any design decision. I avoided the stock but should have shorted it.

trungonnews• 10 years ago

GoPro needs additional applications to their camera besides being an action cam. How about adding home security, or baby monitor capability? Otherwise the GoPro camera will sit in the closet for 364 days of the year. What a waste.

GoPro shows its vulnerability after horrific Q3 earnings

Related Stories