Tmux has left SourceForge

https://github.com/tmux/tmux/commit/d2b35e19cdd61d163d26c4babccc1550e72a9623

by anishathalye • 11 years ago

504 180 11 years ago

github.com

reustle• 11 years ago

This is probably the commit you're looking for

https://github.com/tmux/tmux/commit/d2b35e19cdd61d163d26c4ba...

dang• 11 years ago

Thanks, we changed to that from https://github.com/tmux/tmux.

smaili• 11 years ago

Are there any big projects still using SourceForge? I know "big" is a little subjective here, but it seems like most active projects have already migrated.

krasin• 11 years ago

Despite having a mirror on github, OpenCV docs refer to SourceForge as the primary location: http://docs.opencv.org/doc/tutorials/introduction/linux_inst...

"Getting the Latest Stable OpenCV Version

Go to our page on Sourceforge;"

driverdan• 11 years ago

That's not surprising. OpenCV docs are woefully out of date.

SwellJoe• 11 years ago

Our Webmin website, mailing lists, downloads, and a few other things are still running on SourceForge, for the time being. (I guess it counts as "big", with 3+ million downloads a year, it has always been a top-ten project in its category at SF.net.)

We moved revision control to github several years ago.

We just haven't had time lately to figure out what to do about the SF.net malware situation, but I can't imagine we'll stay there for too much longer, given the circumstances. We don't provide a Windows installer, so we're probably not at any immediate risk from SourceForge practices, but it doesn't seem like a smart place to be, given their behavior.

edge172• 11 years ago

I got malware in the installer for Filezilla on my Mac. They shove malware in all sorts of non-windows stuff these days...

chanux• 11 years ago

lame (lib-lame :) )

I maintain a ffmpeg build and two of codec code destinations are SF. lame and opencore-amr.

lozf• 11 years ago

That reminds me - SoX is still there.

scrollaway6• 11 years ago

We're in the process of fully removing ourselves from Sourceforge (LXDE).

At work (Pootle), we're also moving our mailing lists away from Sourceforge. They were the last bit of SF we still used.

david-given4• 11 years ago

Where to, if I may ask? I have some small projects I'm trying to get away from SF, and the mailing lists are the hardest bit --- finding mailing list providers which support bulk import isn't easy.

chime• 11 years ago

I was surprised to find Keepass on it today.

japhyr2• 11 years ago

I think NumPy still uses SourceForge.

celias• 11 years ago

and github - https://github.com/numpy/numpy

est• 11 years ago

homebrew?

Tehnix• 11 years ago

Aren't they on github? https://github.com/Homebrew/homebrew

wyclif• 11 years ago

For some odd reason, when I try to do 'brew upgrade tmux' I get the error 'tmux 1.9a already installed.' I want to upgrade to tmux2.

PuercoPop• 11 years ago

SBCL (one of the more popular CL implementations) is on sourceforge

gnurag• 11 years ago

I think FUSE is still on SourceForge.

axcocq• 11 years ago

MinGW-w64

I tried to find a mirror but couldn't. They link to Sourceforge from their official site.

lloeki• 11 years ago

ScummVM, Inkscape and wkhtmltopdf seem to be hosted there.

boundlessdreamz2• 11 years ago

Not wkhtmltopdf - It is on github and has been for some time. https://github.com/wkhtmltopdf/wkhtmltopdf

It was never on sourceforge as far as I know. It was in Google Code and then later github

TomFrost• 11 years ago

ScummVM has been maintained on GitHub for a few years now: https://github.com/scummvm/scummvm

The downloads are still on SF, though. That's unfortunate.

S4M• 11 years ago

Maxima (computer algebra system) is still using SourceForge: http://maxima.sourceforge.net/

It is one of the oldest software in the world.

Arkanosis• 11 years ago

7-Zip is still partially relying on SF, though the downloads seem to been moved elsewhere.

rbanffy• 11 years ago

Not everyone is into retrocomputing, but CDE is huge, if not very active.

nes350• 11 years ago

zsh: http://www.zsh.org/

hugh4life• 11 years ago

The Lazarus IDE(Delphi Clone... 1,500 downloads a day) uses it for at least their downloads.

If projects need to host binaries what are the best alternative to sourceforge?

nitrogen• 11 years ago

GitHub should work these days.

brianzelip• 11 years ago

git's OSX build is on sourceforge.

kbrosnan• 11 years ago

Keepass uses them for downloads, forums and issue tracking. It is often in the sf.net top 10 projects. http://keepass.info

dewyatt• 11 years ago

GeoServer uses it to host their Windows installer and other binaries, etc

ghshephard• 11 years ago

As a daily user of Tmux, I can't tell you how happy I am that they've bailed out of there. It was always really odd to me that they weren't either on a self-hosted CVS server somewhere or on GitHub - how all is well in the world.

easytiger• 11 years ago

Mailing lists on google groups, which is fine by me, but annoys a lot of people.

lcswi2• 11 years ago

Especially because you cannot even read them without JavaScript or signing up.

teacup50• 11 years ago

Is there a better alternative out there that isn't a web forum?

My projects have been stuck on Google Groups for a long time, and I want to escape.

kolev• 11 years ago

Finally!

caf2• 11 years ago

I notice they're using Google Groups for mailing lists - how have people found Google Groups as a technical mailing list provider?

scrollaway6• 11 years ago

It's not bad, to be honest, just a bit awkward to use if you don't have a google account (it's sometimes fairly hard to subscribe without one).

I wouldn't recommend it for FOSS projects. Unfortunately, there's not much alternative out there. I'm currently looking at Discourse, which has a mailing list mode. We might move to that.

justincormack2• 11 years ago

freelists.org is what I have been using for mailing lists.

inglor2• 11 years ago

I participate in several Google Groups for large projects. I hate it - I find navigation not obvious, discussions aggregated poorly, formatting inconsistent and content not prioritised.

I much prefer discourse or even GitHub issues.

thomasahle• 11 years ago

Surely those issues are not related to using Google Groups as an email list?

fletchowns• 11 years ago

They tried to move the Chef mailing list to Google but it didn't work out. Not sure what they had issues with.

https://www.chef.io/blog/2015/02/04/14389/

tenfingers2• 11 years ago

Horrid. Besides poor threading (I'm speaking about the UI itself), it's unbelievable how HEAVY google groups feels when loading and using their web interface. It's so sad to think that google groups was the best interface ever to nntp in the past when it took over dejanews.

But it doesn't stop there. I had endless problems with regular subscribers ending up as junk. Likewise, as a subscriber, I had several issues in the past with subscription, where I had to contact the owner of the list and "debug" the issue (like there's anything to debug really: it just goes to junk and there's nothing you can do).

It doesn't help that google groups doesn't show prominently the fact that it's a regular list you can subscribe to without creating any account.

Fortunately, google groups generally plays well with gmane.org, so as long as they don't screw that up, I couldn't care less.

DanBC2• 11 years ago

It's so sad to think that google groups was the best interface ever to nntp in the past when it took over dejanews.

The best WWW interface!

slrn or pan or almost any other newsreader were great.

bostonvaulter2• 11 years ago

Do you prefer gmane's interface over google groups?

tacone• 11 years ago

No clue, but I hate it so much that I routinely abstain to partecipate to the discussions of the projects who happen to choose it for their mailing lists. I just can't help it.

ta09673• 11 years ago

they lose emails. subscriber sends an email to the list, it's accepted, and then it only appears in the web interface, nobody receives an email. or, the mailing list does distribute the email but it never appears in the web interface.

raverbashing• 11 years ago

With so many alternatives (even besides GitHub) I wonder why some took so much time to change.

There was Google Code, Landscape, or even self-hosted Git amongst others.

erikb• 11 years ago

Most projects have quite a lot on the table without worrying about hosting all the time. There are bugs you have a hard time fixing or even finding, there are many opinions on how the project should develop (including some real paying customers if you are a successful project), there are people problems in the team. And hosting is something that probably hasn't been touched for years. Maybe the guys who configured it the first time around aren't even on the team any more.

Without big news something so basic is probably not even on the table.

nacs• 11 years ago

Don't think Google Code would have been much of an improvement. I'm pretty sure Google has abandoned further development on it and have so for a while now.

david-given4• 11 years ago

Google Code's being shut down in January 2016: http://google-opensource.blogspot.ch/2015/03/farewell-to-goo...

There's an automated Google Code to github migration tool.

doiwin2• 11 years ago

SourceForge was founded 1999. Now, 16 years later they start to abuse their power. GitHub was launched 2008. Does this mean we can expect GitHub to start abusing our data by 2024?

TeMPOraL2• 11 years ago

Quite possibly. As the market matures and gets more competitive, people are being forced to sacrifice every value, one by one, to boost short-term profits. It seems to be a common dynamic in just about every industry.

pbhjpbhj5• 11 years ago

Are the people making those decisions on the poverty line or are they making them to make themselves even richer?

[Yes it's literally a false dichotomy, I think my meaning is clear though.]

josephg• 11 years ago

Github has a stable business model which depends on their reputation as a host. As I understand it, that isn't something that could ever be said of SourceForge.

I'm not saying github will be around forever, but I highly doubt they'll make the same mistake sourceforge is making now.

madaxe_again• 11 years ago

SF was highly reputable back in the day - why else do you think so many projects which have roots back in the 90's are hosted there?

Never say never. 15 years ago nobody would've dreamt SF would have gone this way.

netdog• 11 years ago

I'm not saying github will be around forever, but I highly doubt they'll make the same mistake sourceforge is making now.

Github could be sold, just like Sourceforge was sold, and the new owners could behave very differently from the current owners.

mapt• 11 years ago

Build a user base with a great free product, abuse that user base for money until it leaves you for some competitor. Build social capital, spend it. The market, on average, doesn't just want profits from a tech company, it wants significant short-term growth in either revenues or userbase, and if the latter reaches saturation the former will occur.

perlgeek• 11 years ago

The market, on average, doesn't just want profits from a tech company, it wants significant short-term growth in either revenues or userbase, and if the latter reaches saturation the former will occur.

Small correction: it's not the "The market" that wants that, its the owner/investors/stock holders that want it.

Which is why I have an easier time trusting a small company owned by its founders, than a big, publicly traded company.

(Iirc github is still privately owned, but they have taken significant investments, so it's somewhere in between).

Grue33• 11 years ago

They already censor anything the Russian government doesn't like. [1]

[1] https://gigaom.com/2014/12/05/github-gives-in-to-russian-cen...

doiwin2• 11 years ago

As I understand it, they only block russian IPs from accessing it. That seems ok to me. Every country has it's own laws. There is now completely free speach anywhere around the world.

jedisct1• 11 years ago

I really wish MSys2 also left SourceForge, especially since it comes with a Windows installer.

RayDonnelly• 11 years ago

We hear you, so long as our project isn't hijacked we'll never agree to malware (or any other) bundling.

Hopefully SF will not deem us to have abandoned the project either!

GutenYe• 11 years ago

Great news :)

joosters• 11 years ago

Now just wait for the 'tmux.mirror' project to appear on Sourceforge, 'maintained' by the SF admins...

codychan• 11 years ago

Finally.

I remember that the fist problem occurred to me that wasn't not solved by Google was solved by asking in the mailing list of tmux, and now it it moved to Github, I can finally ask question at the issue page.

jnbiche• 11 years ago

Please don't do that. The issues page is for issues, not support. Even if TMUX is one of the few projects where the maintainers don't mind answering support questions on the issues page (not likely), it's a bad habit to get into.

Please ask support questions on StackOverflow, or the mailing list, or IRC. Not the issues page. It makes life much harder for the maintainer.

(God, I'm such a greybeard now)

alptony• 11 years ago

From the "tmux-users" mailing list:

Will pull requests on GitHub now be allowed as a means of contributing patches?
No, patches still need to come by email to me [Nicholas Marriott] or the ML.

I wonder, what's the main reason behind it? What's wrong with Github PRs?

rplnt• 11 years ago

The comments section.

astrodust• 11 years ago

I prefer GitHub comments over inane mailing lists where you either get everything, or nothing. GitHub's issue notifications are opt-in per issue, and still come by email if you want.

People who only take patches by email are being jerks.

dagw• 11 years ago

I don't know what issues tmux has, but these are the reasons Linus also refuses to use Github PRs: https://github.com/torvalds/linux/pull/17

mrweasel• 11 years ago

I believe, and I might be very wrong, that tmux is developed in the OpenBSD CVS tree, and patches are then merged from there to Github. The patches would need to be applied to the code in CVS, so a Github pull-request would be useless.

justincormack2• 11 years ago

FreeBSD has worked out a combined svn and github pull request workflow, although mayb esvn is easier to do this with than cvs.

pm215• 11 years ago

Even if there are no problems with github PRs in themselves, the tmux developers will certainly have an established workflow for reviewing patches and applying them. The last thing they want to do while they're migrating from one hosting site to another is to upend their entirely functional code review workflow when that's not the thing that's broken and forcing the migration...

caf2• 11 years ago

I don't know about tmux, but personally I find that it's pretty rare that you want to apply a submitted patch verbatim.

Generally there's a need to clean it up a bit and bang on it with some testing. I suppose that bigger projects can just bounce that back to the submitter to fix up and resubmit, but if a smaller project wants to encourage contributions the maintainers really need to do that.

There's also the point that projects with established mailing lists where patches are discussed probably don't want to move to github's web UI for those discussions.

jordigh• 11 years ago

There are lots of big projects that use an email-based code review workflow: the gcc family (gdb, libstdc++, and gcc itself), git, Linux, Mercurial... You submit the patch to the mailing list and people comment on your patch inline. You submit updated patches as necessary until everything looks good and approved.

It's pretty low-tech, but like plain text itself, it's also very easy to participate. There's no setup involved other than an email client. And rewrites don't require you to add more commits, thus cluttering history; or to `git push --force`, thus destroying the previous version of the patch that people had commented on. It's also trivial to cherry-pick and rebase: just apply the patch. You can do this even with a VCS that doesn't have rebase or cherry-pick commands.

There are definite advantages to the email-based system.

mataug• 11 years ago

Finally !

jbnicolai• 11 years ago

Glad to hear!

Small plug, but I suppose the only people reading these comments are interested in tmux: https://github.com/tmux-plugins

MichaelCrawford• 11 years ago

http://www.slashdotmedia.com/

We are not the customers, we are the product.

fithisux• 11 years ago

Do you know why souceforge.jp has become osdn.jp?

I usually download new tera term releases from there. (and of course ffftp)

notfoss• 11 years ago

For the last few days, I was getting 404s on a lot of tmux links on sourceforge. Guess this explains that ;)

jhallenworld• 11 years ago

Ugh, what a PITA this is going to be (my project JOE is on sourceforge and people are starting to complain). All links point to sourceforge, so how long will they take to update? When I search for "TMUX source download" I get sourceforge. If sourceforge takes over your abandoned project, I imagine that they will remove forwarding links to the replacement.

artursapek• 11 years ago

I see SourceForge as being to code hosting platforms as GoDaddy is to domain registrars. They both started in the late 90s, exploded, and suffered from their success. They became infested with bad management, became bloated and difficult to use, and employed skeezy money-making tactics. GoDaddy doesn't seem to be in trouble the way SourceForge is, though.

thefreeman2• 11 years ago

Honestly, I don't see how they aren't in trouble yet. With how long GoDaddy has been around, and how dominant they are in terms of "casual" domain owners, it blew me away when I saw that they have yet to be profitable a single year.

briandear• 11 years ago

However Amazon isn't profitable either -- never has been.

wtbob• 11 years ago

As a customer of both GoDaddy and Namecheap, I have to say that GoDaddy offers a much better, more full-featured DNS control panel. Frankly, I can't see staying with Namecheap.

I really don't get the hate for GoDaddy. SourceForge, OTOH, are reprehensible.

Osiris3• 11 years ago

You can use the GoDaddy dns manager (dns.godaddy.com) without having your domain registered there. I use it because it's a much more robust DNS manager. You can manage your external domains with it.

_JamesA_• 11 years ago

A free CloudFlare account allows unlimited domain DNS services and their 'control panel' is clean and straight forward.

Unlike GoDaddy their only upsell is for their paid CDN services.

coldpie• 11 years ago

I really don't get the hate for GoDaddy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GoDaddy#Controversies

graffitici2• 11 years ago

What are the specific concerns with GoDaddy? I've been using them only as a domain registrar, and, well, they do register my domains.. I didn't know there were issues of the same magnitude as with SourceForge. What registrar do you use?

Osiris3• 11 years ago

I used to work there. People complain that they use deceptive practices, like a low intro rate and then very high cost automatic renewals. About 3-4 years ago they were bought by some private equity firms and they have been in the process of basically rewriting all their products. I was involved in a one year full rewrite which was later scrapped in favor of reselling Office 365 instead.

brg• 11 years ago

For some background on why a team may wish to leave SourceForge, I found this earlier hn article to be enlightening:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2739995

seba_dos1• 11 years ago

Everybody should, and that shouldn't be newsworthy.

Tmux has left SourceForge

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