We Make Mistakes

http://blog.ycombinator.com/we-make-mistakes

by katm • 12 years ago

310 194 12 years ago

blog.ycombinator.com

waterlesscloud• 12 years ago

"In this cycle we saw a +40% increase in the number of companies applying over the Summer 2014 batch."

Yikes! That's a major increase in applications. Has that number always grown that fast?

I wonder what the saturation point will be...

dvt• 12 years ago

I think 40% is atypically high. However, people have been wondering what the saturation point might be (with no sign of slowing down) for years ;)

the_cat_kittles• 12 years ago

"We Make Mistakes" is such a pretentious title because you think people hold ycombinator in such high esteem that you need to say that

sfeng• 12 years ago

They're trying to be kind to the people they just refused, I'm not sure why that's pretentious. If you applied, presumably you wanted to get in and reminding them that it's not necessarily them or their company which is wrong is a kind thing to do.

dropit_sphere• 12 years ago

Actually, I think this is the most important part of the process. When you're small you have the luxury of making mistakes and no one cares. When you wield some power/prestige and your actions affect other peoples' lives, people start coming to you with grievances. The worst part is that often those grievances are "deserved" --- I guarantee that some startup w/o an interview request will make it big, and one that gets accepted will slink off and die. That doesn't mean that YC is failing, just that the problem is really hard.

Rapzid• 12 years ago

Perhaps being "kind" was the motivation. Maybe it was business oriented though. They are in the business of getting all the choice investment opportunities coming to them. So, it's in their interest to have people not discouraged from reapplying, or to have them bad talking YC because they "Couldn't understand my awesome idea".

Udo2• 12 years ago

Damn, I was thinking about trying for a "late" application, but apply.ycombinator.com seems to be down.

Does anyone know if they still allow this, in principle? Or are batches now so saturated (with good ideas) that they dropped the option?

kevin4• 12 years ago

We do still allow late apps. We're working on the problem and hope to have it back up soon. Sorry guys!

Udo2• 12 years ago

No problem, thanks for the quick response!

esusinc2• 12 years ago

As a first time applicant, is there a declination notification or is lack of response the indicator of being passed over? Also, it seems there is an advantage in submitting late as you may avoid applicant fatigue. True?

BillionaireBear3• 12 years ago

What happens if a rejected company from this batch submits a late application. Does this paradox cause the universe to implode?

Haha - honestly though , is this acceptable?

jordanbrown• 12 years ago

How about a rejected application but one that now has traction? ie live in the App Store and growing.

vishnupr• 12 years ago

A relevant question I asked PG a year ago: [Do you review rejected YC apps to find startups who then made it big?] - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7122774

rdlecler17• 12 years ago

I've mentioned this in another post. I'm a CPSC University of Calgary alum. James Gosling (Founder of Java) is also an alum. A bunch of my profs went to school with him back in the 70s and the stories they told about him. Well he was a legend. One day he came to do a talk when I was in undergrad. He told us that he applied to every major CPSC school for his PhD and was rejected EVERYWHERE except for Carnegie Mellon. As he was about to walk across the stage to be awarded his degree there, they pulled him aside and told him that each year they randomly select one person that they initially rejected and accepted that person, and that he was the first one that ever graduated. Even James needed luck. I would love to see the same experiment done with YC. IT would be one hell of an experiment.

tsenkov• 12 years ago

This is a very interesting case, indeed.

I think YC used to accept awesome teams with (seemingly) bad ideas. Which is only partially like your example. But I don't believe they are doing it now with so many applications (40% more than S14).

Anyone has any examples pointing the other?

graphene2• 12 years ago

I can't find a source for LightSail having been rejected from YC, the linked reference is just a crunchbase entry that doesn't mention YC as investors.

I'd be super interested to know more about this, since LightSail seems like exactly the type of company (and founder) that YC says it wants to fund: Working in a RFS domain (energy), massive potential upside, and founder with considerable domain expertise.

ig13• 12 years ago

IIRC it was in 2008 when YC was in a very different position from what it is now.

pptr1• 12 years ago

"Don’t let funding take your eye off the goal: making something people want. Everything else, including going through Y Combinator, is there to support that goal but is not the goal itself." Exactly...

MCRed5• 12 years ago

This is particularly challenging, since, given the amount of effort it takes to make an application, if you apply to multiple accelerators during "application season" it's easy for it to be a full time job.

It's very easy to believe "if only we just got in... we'd have the money to do X".

monsterix• 12 years ago

This is the exact case of a crowded doorway [1] we discussed almost two years ago on HN: Higher the number of applications implies higher the perceivable quality of YC applications. Implies higher the probability of riskier bets to fall through.

What's potentially dangerous about this situation is that quite a few glossy low-risk companies will outdo the more riskier ones - even though YC staff is one of the best in the world and thoroughly equipped to do what it does - and thus lowering the chances of fishing real gems off the coast.

I do not have the numbers, but how have the batches of later years done as compared to the early ones which had Dropbox, Airbnb in them?

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5648760

flipside11• 12 years ago

7th rejection, doesn't even phase me anymore. :P

For those with less experience, the disappointment will pass. Take a day if you need to reflect on what you're doing, why you're doing it and how you could do it better.

Rejection is fuel for the fire, use it to burn brighter going forward.

Next time, be so good they can't ignore you, simple as that.

tpae• 12 years ago

4th one for me. Thanks for the words of encouragement!

paul2• 12 years ago

"Next time, be so good they can't ignore you, simple as that."

Exactly right!

DevX101• 12 years ago

Persistence isn't always a virtue. If you've been rejected 7 times, please stop expending your time and emotional energy on YC.

Redirect that energy to building your business. Build your product and get customers/users, which is the real endgame, not getting into YC or getting a check from a fancy Sandhill VC.

BinaryIdiot• 12 years ago

If you've been rejected 7 times, please stop expending your time and emotional energy on YC.

I'm not OP but your comment makes it sound like he or she is spending significant time on applications and neglecting business. Granted the application isn't a really quick thing to fill out but it's also not something that takes so long that it can impact your business negatively.

flipside11• 12 years ago

Applying to YC is a straightforward decision every time:

1. YC would definitely be helpful and worth the equity.

2. The application process is a helpful reality check for the status of my startup regardless of outcome.

3. I still believe we have crazy amounts of untapped potential.

I focus just fine on my startup the rest of the time.

aliakhtar12• 12 years ago

7 times is a lot. Has it always been with the same product, or different ideas?

flipside11• 12 years ago

Team has changed, name has changed, product has changed, vision has been refined.

10/30 marks my 4 year anniversary for coming up with the core ideas behind Tinj. We're building dramatically better ways for people to share information starting with video ratings.

More than anything, I've grown enormously as an entrepreneur, as a developer and as a person.

stevephillips2• 12 years ago

You should blog about what you learnt at each iteration

flipside11• 12 years ago

I absolutely should, but I haven't figured out a system for blogging that doesn't take too much time.

jacquesm2• 12 years ago

You'll get there, with or without them. That kind of persistence will eventually pay off because you're not letting outside factors determine your success as much as you can. Kudos!

bosie• 12 years ago

Your website doesn't work on osx with chrome 38.0.2125.104.

clicking on 'contact' scrolls down and when it reaches the bottom it just snaps back to the top.

jaksmit• 12 years ago

"In this cycle we saw a +40% increase in the number of companies applying" — roughly how many applications were there? 1000? 10,000?

Also, how many teams make it to the interview stage?

drawkbox• 12 years ago

Seconded, some metrics on this yearly would be great if at all possible. To give the applicants some sort of perspective.

In terms of the companies that make it, previous years the amount that make it in range up to 80 but they reduced it to 50 last year. 500 or so total YC companies since inception (2005).

viksit2• 12 years ago

Does this include late apps? Curious about the decisions on apps that came in hours or days after the 8p deadline.

kevin4• 12 years ago

You can pretty much late apply all the way until the next batch starts. There's not really a formal process with late applications, though. We do read through them all eventually and we'll respond to all of you. Right now, the rough deadline for us is by the end of the year.

viksit2• 12 years ago

Ah got it. So this means late apps still haven't been reviewed?

graycat3• 12 years ago

The start-ups that are of the most interest are necessarily exceptional and significantly different from start-ups in the past, successful or not. Thus, evaluating start-ups when looking for the ones of most interest is challenging, and evaluations via simple, empirical patterns from the past promise to select a lot of straw and miss some golden needles.

Really the challenge here is common, nearly standard, and a very old story that goes back to nothing less than the Mother Goose children's story "The Little Red Hen": What the hen was doing was unusual and, therefore, not in the experience of others. Thus, no one would help her. But when she had hot, fragrant loaves of bread freshly out of her oven and eager, hungry, paying customers lined up to buy, lots of people were ready to help. But in the interim she had to work alone with just her own evaluation, creativity, and determination. No doubt that story is in Mother Goose because the situation was both common and ancient.

What is needed are better means of evaluating projects. For a special, relatively small, collection of projects, there are such means, highly polished, e.g., for grant applications to NSF, NIH, and DARPA, similarly for Ph.D. dissertation proposals, and also for a huge range of US DoD projects, e.g., the SR-71, the F-117, GPS. Generally these projects and their evaluations have much better batting average than Silicon Valley equity funded information technology start-up projects.

Maybe what Silicon Valley is doing is making money, and the YC $30+ billion is astoundingly impressive, but one major success can be worth $300 billion, 10 times as much, so that we have to suspect that better evaluations could lead to better returns.

damurdock• 12 years ago

I'm reminded a bit of http://www.bvp.com/portfolio/antiportfolio, a collection of companies that applied to Bessemer Venture Partners for VC funds, were denied, and went on to make it big.

graycat3• 12 years ago

Sure, easily can conclude that BVP and other VC firms believe that they have a particular way to evaluate applications and make money. This does not mean that they have the ability or obligation, or even make an effort, accurately to evaluate every application that comes through their door.

So, likely, net, if they are making money, then they are happy about the money they are making, smile all the way to the bank, and just f'get about the rest.

7Figures2Commas2• 12 years ago

If they are making money? Venture funds are generally structured using the 2 and 20 model. The first 2 refers to an annual fee of 2% of committed capital for the life of the fund. Venture funds typically have a life of 10 years.

I believe Bessemer's last fund was $1.6 billion, so assuming a typical 2 and 20 structure, that would be $32 million/year, or $320 million over a 10 year fund's life, guaranteed.

7Figures2Commas2• 12 years ago

Don’t let funding take your eye off the goal: making something people want. Everything else, including going through Y Combinator, is there to support that goal but is not the goal itself.

It would be interesting to see a chart plotting over time the number of applicants in each batch who have applied to YC multiple times. Based on the number of folks here on HN who have apparently applied multiple times, and for different concepts no less, it seems plausible that a not insignificant percentage of the applicant pool now consists of folks who, contrary to YC's own advice, are more focused on getting accepted into YC than building a real business.

paul2• 12 years ago

The best way to get into YC is to build a great business :)

qazawy10013• 12 years ago

honest question because I hear this line from YC partners, then at that point why as founders would we need YC at all?

danieltillett2• 12 years ago

I don't doubt this is true, but this shouldn't be what an incubator is about. It should be about taking a great idea and a talented team and helping them buid a great business when the founders are inexperienced in running a business.

brentxphillips• 12 years ago

So how would YC classify passing over interviewing former United Nations staff working on reducing the turnaround time and effort it takes aid groups to raise funds to develop, launch and sustain operations responding to the worst humanitarian crises the world has seen in an era? Does this fit in the mistake category or the we’re just naively stupid and don’t have the time to bother spending 5 minutes hearing about your project category?

Aid groups are choking on sheltering and feeding millions of refugees streaming out of Syria and Iraq but who gives a fuck?

MCRed5• 12 years ago

That's the problem you're trying to solve. There are many possibilities for why that didn't result in a successful application. For instance:

1) your solution might not seem viable

2) your solution might seem viable but you don't seem like you can pull it off

3) your solution might be great and you might have a great team, but there were stronger teams in the round

ericd• 12 years ago

They've got much more interest than they can deal with, such that even very good teams can be passed over. Just try again next time, and try not to take it personally. And in the meantime, keep on working on it.

esusinc2• 12 years ago

As an East Coast located start up there is the feel of being on the outside looking in. There seems to be obstacles to overcome...be it culturally and geographically. As a startup in an growth industry (UAV/UAS)that happens to focus more on the service delivery and hardware side, how do you overcome the software centric focus of YC?

bm1362• 12 years ago

YCombinator isn't the only way to start a business. Don't let bitterness cloud your goal.

rpedela• 12 years ago

As always with things like YC, it isn't black and white. Sometimes the rejection is not because they didn't like you or think the idea isn't important, but rather someone else was better in their opinion. And as the title of the post says, they understand their opinion can be wrong.

ilaksh• 12 years ago

There are other accelerators and investors. Y Combinator can pick and choose anything. Your startup sounds very important but also incredibly challenging for any investor to get involved with. People in Silicon Valley may be pretty afraid of that kind of goal.

I would also be angry if they wouldn't give me five minutes, but that's not how their process works (imagine how hard that would be to personally say no to hundreds or thousands of people).

I hope you will continue to pursue other avenues for funding.

wasd• 12 years ago

I think your overreaction of being denied reflects precisely why you were denied.

ams6110• 12 years ago

Your space is in international humanitarian aid. Politics drives what can and can't happen much more than any technological barriers. They might have thought that though your objectives are worthy, the solution is not to be found in software.

MCRed5• 12 years ago

One of the things that I've found so challenging about applying for accelerators is that it's difficult to find examples of companies that got in or that didn't get in, and what they did for their applications. Every time I have come across one, I've learned a bit - like "that didn't work" or "that was a great idea" - around how they apply, pitch themselves or their product, etc.

Anyone who was rejected want to share any of their application info, like team or product demo videos, or their website and a one line pitch? I know you might not want to for competitive reasons, and I understand.

But there's always things we can learn from each other, so if you want to share I'm sure I'm not the only one who would appreciate seeing what didn't work. :-)

kiba• 12 years ago

So, people optimize the application process to get in. That decrease the SNR for Y Combinator, which mean they have to work hard to separate the posers from the real thing.

MCRed5• 12 years ago

I wasn't thinking about gaming the system so much as... well... how to best bring clarity to the subject.

It's not just the quality of the idea, team and product, but the quality of the presentation -- and that's always a challenge when you're in the early stages and not necessarily fully certain about, say, the product's nature.

And by presentation I don't mean how slick it is, but how effective it is at conveying what you're trying to convey (which can be undermined by slickness.)

Anyway I was asking for the ones that failed, not the ones that were successful (as I assume they would want to keep things under wraps until demo day.)

aliakhtar12• 12 years ago

I'll share a bit. I'm a solo, international founder. I applied with a barely usable, very limited prototype, of a technically challenging project (involving A.I and machine learning). My video was viewed twice, and my demo was viewed, but no other action was taken within it. I was rejected.

I expected that, given that my prototype was pretty bad, and I have a lot going against me. It definitely lit a fire under me just to apply though - and the questions that the application asks, are things you really need to think about. I definitely don't regret applying. And the fact that my demo & video were viewed - makes me think that perhaps my idea is somewhat promising.

I plan on improving my product a lot and re-applying next batch. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=12DAjoONx9E&t=35s

lnanek2• 12 years ago

I don't think you stand much chance as a solo founder either. It's very rare.

MCRed5• 12 years ago

I was a "solo founder" type for awhile. If you're an engineer I think you can have your pick of co-founders.

My suggestion, after working on and for startups for a couple decades is that you should be the CEO, find business people to be co-founders, and hire a VP of engineering, or CTO.

It's almost a cliche that there are business guys "starting companies" who "just need an engineer"... but I think the best chances for success - on a high tech startup - are for the engineer to be the CEO, and eventually bring on a CTO.

One advantage of this- the CEO is focused on product while the business guys (COO, CMO, whatever) are out doing the legwork for raising money. I've seen too many companies flounder because the CEO was focused on raising money.

You can learn business, they can't learn engineering. (well, they can, but not to your level in the time available.)

sparkzilla• 12 years ago

Newslines - The Wikipedia of News (a mix of Wikipedia, daily news and YouTube). Very experienced entrepreneurial team. Only direct competitor to Wikipedia. Applied as a project that allows greater diversity for content creators (unlike Wikipedia 80% of our contributors are women and minorities) Full product online and getting good traction. http://newslines.org/ Check our Paul Graham newsline: http://newslines.org/paul-graham/ Will try again next time. It's fun to make the application, really helps you think how to describe your business simply.

panther2k2• 12 years ago

Here you go: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1s8udpwEe7TPz1xJLA3E1N9qb...

We are building a decentralized bank/crowdlending network on the blockchain.

clairity• 12 years ago

neat idea. did you consider applying to PnP bitcoin accelerator? http://plugandplayaccelerator.com/programs/Bitcoin

bozoUser• 12 years ago

do the co-founders also get the email? I dont see one in my inbox yet..

thatmatt• 12 years ago

I think just the main submitter.

tomasien4• 12 years ago

I never got into Y Combinator (I think I applied 4 times but I'm not sure) but I'm now the CEO of a rapidly growing, well funded startup that actually SERVES an increasing number of YC companies. The way I always thought about YC was that it is ALWAYS worth applying because the exercise is good and the upside is high (and the downside minimal) but getting into YC should never be "part of your plan" - there are too many other great applicants, plain and simple.

It's the same as how no student should ever PLAN to get into Harvard, and Harvard even has SATs and GPAs to rely on (fairly objective stats around which you can make a guess about your odds) while YC has only heuristics based on experience and founder reputation. Never judge yourself based on something that has an open application process - it doesn't define you, it defines them. No reason not to apply, but take it as a bonus if you get in, don't take it personally if you get rejected.

downandout• 12 years ago

I never got into Y Combinator but I'm now the CEO of a rapidly growing, well funded startup that actually SERVES an increasing number of YC companies

This this kind of thing always feels like a bit of a victory. I never came close to being admitted to Stanford, but years ago found myself on the campus, hiring a professor as a consultant to a startup I co-founded. As we walked around the campus and then sat in his office, this far-off universe of people that the Stanford admissions committee had long-ago decided were smarter and more capable than I was suddenly seemed far less so. I was already doing what many of the students, and even many professors, aspired to do.

A rejection from YC, Stanford, or any other exclusive club with limited space isn't necessarily an indictment of your abilities. In the case of a startup, launch your product and let the market tell you how valuable you are. Remarkable products will quickly spread, and investors will line up to write you checks. You can have VC partners worth hundreds of millions of dollars literally walking the streets [1] to find you, too.

[1] http://youtu.be/8-pJa11YvCs?t=13m

vacri• 12 years ago

I once tried to become a paramedic. I was working in a sort-of outpatient clinic at the time, talked a couple of times with an paramedic instructor, along with some regular officers. I never got in - the HR recruiters didn't like me for some reason. This made no sense to the instructor, who thought I was a prime candidate, nor to my medical colleagues, and I also later successfully coached two friends through the process. I often wonder how life would have turned out differently had I been accepted. Sometimes people on both sides of the wall think you'd be the best for the job, but if the gatekeepers don't think so... :)

robomartin• 12 years ago

it doesn't define you, it defines them.

Brilliant observation.

3pt14159• 12 years ago

I wanted to see what your company did so I checked your profile. I'm getting an error on your website:

Error 521 Ray ID: 180f9c9b35c10ec7

Let me know when this is fixed and I'll delete this comment.

tomasien4• 12 years ago

Thanks for letting me know that is super weird - I don't see that error and I don't recognize it. Are you browsing in some non-standard way I need to account for (weird browser or something?)

paul92904• 12 years ago

I'm curious to how many founders in this batch are...

- Over 35

- Female

- African American

Edit: My post here is to gauge if the needle of progress in our industry is moving forward in the terms of race, age and sex.

austenallred• 12 years ago

I don't recall YC asking for race or gender on the application, so I doubt that's possible unless self-reported.

paul92904• 12 years ago

You have to submit a team video.

curiousDog• 12 years ago

Why? Do you think any of those were grounds for rejection?

paul92904• 12 years ago

Sexism and racism is currently a hot topic and it looks like YC has made effort to change this.

Not sure about ageism .. if your over 40 should you even bother?

wpietri• 12 years ago

Those are all things demonstrated to bias hiring, so it's a reasonable question.

Note also that hiring biases don't require anything so unsubtle as making something like that grounds for rejection.

rdlecler17• 12 years ago

We were accepted for an interview (Not accepted to the class yet). I'm 41 and my co-founder (who doesn't looks quite as young as I am) is 47. To be honest, I fully expected a rejection for this very reason so I'm pleasantly surprised which is actually pretty consistent with the YC brand.

To make a fair assessment you also need to look at the distribution of applicants. If 15% of applicants are female, then your null hypothesis is that 15% of founders will be female.

aliakhtar12• 12 years ago

Congrats. What's your start up about?

paul92904• 12 years ago

Congratulations!

I do wonder if you...

- Are already generating revenue

- Have lots of traction/traffic

- Sold previous start-ups and or companies before

- Worked at and or working at Apple, Facebook, Google or similar companies

- Ran a successful KickStarter

- Went to an ivy league school

As for us.. I am 39 and this is my second start-up. My co-founder is 21. Our first start-up idea (was a novel idea at the time) has since gone onto being worked on/copied by dozens, including one now with millions of users. We were not technical when we started our first start-up, but did receive a fair amount of attention for the concept.

Overall, I don't think that matters due to the competition you face in applying for YC. I would assume many who are interviewed & accepted can check off a few of those questions I asked above. Though maybe not?

Not sure we will apply again since we applied in April of 2013. Though when we applied in 2013 & got rejected we soon were invited to demo our technology to an entity in the valley. That is an interesting story in itself. Maybe that will happen again :-)

Well we were not lucky this time, I wish you better luck!

syedkarim• 12 years ago

I am 37. Solo founder. No revenue, but working product. Invited for interview.

taytus• 12 years ago

First rejection but I have a smile in my face. I did it, I had the courage to apply. So... yeah I'm happy.

rdlecler17• 12 years ago

Good work. We were invited for an interview, but I can tell you that I've failed to get an opportunity so many times in my life that I've lost count. I've had a handful of wins, but have thrown the dice tens of thousands of times. Opportunity is a fickle beast. There have been dark dark days (and months). My ego and pride is covered with calluses. It's depressing and it makes your humble, but it's not a sign of defeat. Push through if only because the alternative is to concede defeat.

A couple of my biggest regrets are not applying to Google in 2000 when I was graduating from CPSC: "Search engine? Well that sounds boring. And they don't even have a business model!".. Opps....

The other was not applying to YC in November 2009. "Oh the next class is too far away." I had a killer prototype, and since then the whatifs always haunted me.

Better to try, and be overlooked, than to never try at all.

sf_angular_dude• 12 years ago

may i ask why not applying to yc in 2009 was such a big regret? was it because it was less competitive back then, and you think things might have turned out differently? just curious. TIA!

Stoo• 12 years ago

Same. And I can think of a couple of reasons why I might have been rejected, which means I now have an area to focus on to develop the company (and the idea) further.

MarkyPc3• 12 years ago

Last I applied as a single founder I got an interview. Now I have a cofounder and made significant progress but our application didn't earn us an interview (the second time applying with this idea.) Perhaps I took something for granted when i applied this time so the app turned out weaker or disappointing but I realize how lucky I was to get feedback last time as opposed to none at all now.

untilHellbanned• 12 years ago

This seems strange. Any areas your application changed? What did you think you did better this time?

monksy• 12 years ago

Why not do the 1871 startup incubator in Chicago?

qopp• 12 years ago

The whole process makes seems to make some people feel like it's asking someone out or trying out for a play (i.e. the video interview, etc) so I can see why people can take it so harshly.

Your application/video/product could be flawless and literally solve world hunger but the process isn't objective as all that. In the end they just pick a handful of people out of all the applications that they want to invest in.

I'm sure that most applications there was no reason at all that they chose not to accept them. They just didn't.

AustinPythonFTW6• 12 years ago

I'm definitely speaking at least a little bit out of bitterness (our team just got rejected), so with that caveat it feels like YC is becoming more like traditional VC (venture capital): - extremely low probability of success just due to volume of applications - no feedback (again, due to volume of applications, and they posted a nice blog post about this, but just stating a fact) - it seems (I don't have any factual evidence to back this up, would love to be proven wrong through factual evidence) that you need to know someone - tendency to fund those who need it the least (already-proven user traction or revenue)

YC is a for-profit, private enterprise that can do whatever it wants, and it is in the business of maximizing income, so it would be foolish for the organization not to act in a self-interested way, but just calling it like I see it (and again, it'd be great if there were any stats the organization could release to disprove any of the points above, but I understand that it has no obligation to do so).

birken2• 12 years ago

Lots of people will give you money if they think you will turn it into more money. VCs, YC, techstars, rich people, angel investors, your parents, your dentist, etc. Having dealt with many varieties of these before, they all generally share those principles:

- You get a lot more 'no's than 'yes'es

- They don't give you a lot of feedback when they pass

- Having a previous relationship with them is helpful

- The more successful you are, the more they want to give you money

Unless you are starting a non-profit, this is just how it works. These people are investing, not donating to charity or your team's self-development. Get some traction and/or revenue and the game will flip around very quickly.

AustinPythonFTW6• 12 years ago

I think we're making the same point here, but with a nuance.

I think we both agree that: YC is becoming more like everyone else in the investing game. they want to make a lot of money.

Just to clarify, it felt like YC used to be more different from others in the investing game, like they cared more, or they were willing to invest in earlier-stage startups, or they had a higher purpose, or followed the hacker ethos. but now it just feels like they're more like every other investor out there -- please note the use of the word "more". they still do great things (watsi case in point), and all of their blog posts are very respectful towards applicants. to reiterate, it just feels like they're becoming "more" like traditional VC and less like what I thought YC was or used to stand for.

ig13• 12 years ago

It's far from black and white when it comes to feedback, once you're at the point where an investor is spending real time with you they're much more likely to give you feedback if they think you're able to react to that feedback effectively.

For example if they think you need to prove out certain assumptions then they'll tell you those assumptions, because it's in their interest. If they think you personally as a founder are uninvestable then they're unlikely to tell you that because there's no advantage in that for anyone.

jl• 12 years ago

We've been doing pretty much the same things since we started in 2005: we've never given specific feedback about rejections at the application stage (it wasn't going to scale even when we only got a few hundred applications). We funded 8 startups in our first batch, which was roughly 2-3% of the total applications.

We definitely fund people who have no connection to folks we already know, or Silicon Valley for that matter. And we also fund startups who are at the idea stage and have no traction (though traction does help).

I'm very sorry we rejected you, but we are honestly often wrong.

AustinPythonFTW6• 12 years ago

thanks for the comment. YC is definitely great about being very respectful to applicants in its process and blog posts, so don't get me wrong.

I'm just wondering if there's a way for people to understand what their chances are. For example, if 0.01% of people that have lower than a 650 GMAT get into Stanford, then that would be useful information to know (for hopeful applicants).

Similarly, if the "has revenue" cohort has a 15% interview rate, and the "pre-revenue" cohort has a 0.5% interview rate, that would also be really great to know. (same thing for solo vs. multiple founders, recommended vs. non-recommended, etc).

I understand that YC has no obligation to provide this information, and perhaps there are very good reasons why it wouldn't provide it even if it was available. It would just be useful to know if possible.

BillionaireBear3• 12 years ago

Are you expecting another +40% increase for the next batch? I have the impression that companies that would've been (just about) invited for interview last batch , may not have made the cut had they applied this batch (with there being a few actual data points to support this). Would you agree with this assessment? Do you expect the difficulty to get into YC to only increase going forward?

Fando4• 12 years ago

I agree, I think YCombinator is great and they need to find a way to "foster" the growing community of mini start-ups who are perhaps, not yet ready for incubation, or don't need it, but are still capable of realizing their potential. This community should be free for all, in order to meet, network, collaborate, learn and keep passions burning. Focus on investment potential could be secondary to focus on start-up community growth, involvement, and learning.

AustinPythonFTW6• 12 years ago

Absolutely agree with your thoughts here.

csa• 12 years ago

it seems that you need to know someone

Assuming this is true, this must be one of the easiest things in the world to hack. I would be very worried about any aspiring tech entrepreneur who couldn't manage to connect with a group of people who are as open and as generous with their time as many of the YC alums are.

tendency to fund those who need it the least

First, I wonder if this is really true. It may look that way, but I imagine that many of the companies are in the product/market fit stage. Some may find themselves actually in the problem/solution fit stage. I imagine few are in the straight-up scaling stage.

Second, from YC's perspective, I think that they should definitely have some companies in each class for which they will simply act as a multiplier -- that is, get the company to where it is going, just faster and (maybe) better.

Lastly, if traction and/or revenue really are the key to acceptance, aspiring YC companies could simply use this as a parameter to consider when developing their company. IMHO, this is a case of the tail wagging the dog, but it's something to consider.

michaelchisari2• 12 years ago

First application, got rejected. Honestly happy it happened now instead of after the interview. It gives me more time to think about what's next.

My startup is movie industry related, so maybe Los Angeles would be a better place to be. I'll post the startup site here when we launch.

wj2• 12 years ago

Looking forward to seeing it. Lots of room for innovation in the entertainment industry.

I have a small web app for low budget filmmakers that a hesitate to call a startup (I think rocket growth might be particularly hard to achieve in the production side of the industry). More of a business in its infancy.

Best of luck to you.

sdernley• 12 years ago

Also looking forward to seeing it. Interesting and great area to be trying to break in to. Good luck!

Fando4• 12 years ago

There are more applicants than YCombinator could accept (or anyone could accept if you look at it in scale). Someone should create a social-media type website for YCombinator applicants (or anyone) to share their stories, meet, interact, network, learn, and collaborate on new and existing ideas. Imagine how many start-ups would be "born" like this. Think of how many great ideas don't get in or simply don't apply, think of how BIG this community could grow to be in a short time - it would grow by itself. Look at what Kickstarter is doing. Think of how many new comers this type of stepping stone would benefit and help achieve their ideas. Starting this community is possible by creating a great website that creatively engages members to collaborate. Let YCombinator (and anyone else) endorse it - first to members of the y-community then others. In fact "y-community" should be the name of it. We all know that out kind already burn with passion, desire and creativity. With minimal guidance from YCombinator it could succeed faster - passionate desires of those not-accepted will continue to burn and be fostered. Eventually, and this is speculating perhaps, if YCombinator becomes somewhat involved, with so many start-up communities popping-up in every city and country, this website, could grow to become the "Facebook" of start-ups. (only it would also be productive :) But seriously.

hillis• 12 years ago

The website you're describing already exists. In fact, you just posted on it.

Fando4• 12 years ago

You're obviously right to think that hillis. What are your thoughts on the potential that could be achieved if YCombinator would build on the idea?

dools• 12 years ago

Check out #startups on freenode

Fando4• 12 years ago

I will, thank you dools!

chacham15• 12 years ago

Is it just me or does the application to YC feel like a pitch to an investor? I understand that for very specific cases they might be different in that they can see some early potential. However, if you're not one of those lucky few, then it feels like if you're at the point where you can convince YC to invest, you're already not too far from being able to convince an investor to invest. E.g. I've gotten the advice from multiple people at or affiliated with YC: "get users and show growth". But, for me specifically, if I had users and growth already, there is little more that the money that YC would help me raise can do. If I got into YC earlier, I would have hired people to help build the product which people want. Yes, there is a lot of work to grow post product, but in my case, money wouldnt really help that much (my case is desktop software, so I dont really need more server capacity or have scaling issues like other companies do).

BillionaireBear3• 12 years ago

Dissapointed, got very positive feedback from an alum prior to applying. But alas, that was not enough. :) I do find that international founders are at a distinct disadvantage due to lack of networking opportunities (which definitely plays a big part when each application probably receives 5 minutes per reviewer). That said - you could argue that any great entrepreneur would not allow that to be a barrier hehe!

Best of luck to everyone who has an interview and those who don't.

pulkitpulkit• 12 years ago

I get YC makes mistakes (as does everyone else) but I expected / wished / hoped that the response would be figuring out how to make fewer mistakes; maybe an improved process to reduce the risk of mistakes and not just a blog post throwing their hands in the air and wishing everyone that fell on the wrong side good luck. I think they owe that to their stakeholders, if not all the aspiring entrepreneurs out there. This makes it seem like they don't really care...

aloma85• 12 years ago

If you are not a White or Asian male, don't even bother. Someone needs to start a fund for African Americans.

jacquesm2• 12 years ago

That's nonsense. If you're black, female or eskimo, any combination of those and whatever else you could come up with that would put you into a minority group PLEASE do apply with your start-up, that's the only way the numbers will start to reflect society as a whole.

fsoroush• 12 years ago

We haven't received any response yet... Anybody else NOT received a response ?

iamjoday• 12 years ago

Hi Friends,

I've just received rejection email from Ycombinator... :( Though I realize, how competitive it gets to get in, its not the start one expect for their product or idea...

while, I am working on to make my product, I would appreciate if fellow community members can help point out ares of improvement in my product,

http://joday.com

Thanks for your time! I really appreciate it!

Nish Founder, Joday.com

lubos• 12 years ago

If you want to get into YC, it's quite simple.

You have to optimize for what they want and considering how transparent the application process is, it's actually quite easy. PG's essays are step-by-step guides on how to "tick" all the right boxes. They even give you the list of ideas they wish to fund. How nice of them... No wonder YC has announced that quality of applications is increasing. It's not increasing because startups are getting better. It's increasing because more startups are optimizing.

Remember Nikki Durkin from 99dresses? She didn't just apply. She spent huge amount of time researching partners, their history, what they liked, what they wanted to hear... and she has delivered just that like a rockstar. How many promising founders are rejected because they just didn't bother to optimize like Durkin?

To me, if you get rejected, it just means you didn't put enough time into the application. If your goal is to get into YC, then keep trying, you will figure it out.

But in the end, if you are real entrepreneur, figure out what you are doing with your business. Don't optimize for YC, just do what you've got to do and if YC wants to join you for a ride, then fine. If not, too bad for them.

001sky• 12 years ago

'it just means you didn't put enough time into the application'

isn't this logically absurd?

coffeemug• 12 years ago

Optimizing for what you think YC partners want is a sure way to not get into YC. You're not a mind reader; what you think they want is almost certainly different from what they actually want. More importantly, they read thousands of applications, and you're only working on one. They can smell people who are trying to game them from a thousand miles away.

Just doing what you do is the only thing that matters and will get you in, assuming you're doing the right thing. (Asking alums for feedback on the application is a very good way to make sure you're doing the right thing and your presentation doesn't suck)

gohrt• 12 years ago

Your theory seems to apply to SEO as well (just make the best content, and google will rank it highest for relevant terms), and yet the whole SEO industry exists, and most of journalism has changed the way it uses language so that it is more parsable by googlebot -- Google Standard English.

yunnnyunnn• 12 years ago

Thanks YC

zeeshanm• 12 years ago

Anyone feeling down should read Ev William's story from "Founders at Work" on how he had to create, recreate, and recreate his team at Blogger. There was an year when he was the only one running Blogger when the entire team left. It is truly inspiring!

Great things can happen when you're low on budget and there are numerous entrepreneurial stories about those early days. Sometimes it is much needed to go through the early struggles to come out even stronger in the end.

charendy• 12 years ago

I think is time you guys dig into Africa, the fast growing emerging market.

guelo• 12 years ago

Does YC get every single early startup applying now? Why would an early startup not apply? Seems like it's almost a requirement now.

pardeepg• 12 years ago

I have not received any response from YC yet. should we wait or contact YC for application status?

doddavenkatappa• 12 years ago

We too got the rejection letter. But it is perfectly understandable in our case as we are really in the early stages, without a prototype.

Any thoughts on how much a prototype and full-time commitment from all founders matter?

wellboy2• 12 years ago

If you haven't sold a previous company before, you need to have strong traction (at least 5,000 users or $5,000 revenue within the last 6 months), otherwise you don't have a chance really.

Also, you need to have a full-time commitment, otherwise they won't give you $120,000 if that makes sense.

stevephillips2• 12 years ago

This sounds pretty honest and heart felt.

KetciaThach• 12 years ago

Been rejected , but been viewed by 6 people (alumni/or YC) and it is a victory for us for a first time. In the end it is all about what resonate the most to them, YC has its agenda if you dont fit in it , doesnt mean you're bad or your idea is not smart enough. It means you don't fit . That's all. We will keep on working and apply in 6 months or just never apply again and make it work on our own. And I think the worst case would have been to be accepted by YC and fail once I got out of it ... which happens a lot !! :) Thanks for all YC

qazawy10013• 12 years ago

you make mistakes and we will remember.

btw, it just might be sour grapes, but i get the feeling yc app process is highly gamed right now and being rejected by it is not useful enough information to act on for the founders - which is the hallmark of a good investor.

aliakhtar12• 12 years ago

http://i.imgur.com/4zlJhGg.jpg

ninajlu• 12 years ago

Got in this batch on our second time applying. First time we applied with an idea: now we have a product and customers. In retrospect I think the initial rejection was reasonable.

rudeboy347• 12 years ago

Thank you YC. I hope to be in the batch one of these days.Congrats to the successful applicants. For those who were rejected, reflect, revaluate and reapply.

ececconi• 12 years ago

It's easier to imagine that YC can't take all of the good companies that apply if you imagine they could only pick one company out of 10,000 applying. The goal should be to build a great company using whatever resources and networks of people you have available. Not just gaining entry here.

onuryavuz• 12 years ago

This was our first time, and we are rejected. (http://cubic.fm)

During the application process I started to realize, YC asks all the right questions. Just trying to find proper answers is a huge step forward for the first timers, like us. We learned a lot.

I think, the only thing that missing is the feedback loop. I'm aware of the fact that there are more applicants than YC could accept, or provide a feedback. But after all, we still need a feedback.

After I saw the rejection email, first I planned to share our application in HN to get feedback from the community. But now I see this is a need for all the rejected applicants. I'm not sure what could be a better way for closing the feedback loop. Maybe, there's a start-up idea in here somewhere :)

resca79• 12 years ago

I appreciate the seriously of Y Combinator, but I dislike an article like that, first the title: 'We make mistakes'

While I found the rejection a good and sincere email, I'm trying to figure out the role of this article

userium• 12 years ago

As many here told, the process of applying is valuable in itself.

Our application was rejected, but you can sign up for a beta invite here: https://userium.com/ Soon 400 sign ups and counting. :)

We Make Mistakes

Related Stories