Psychedelic mushrooms put your brain in a “waking dream,” study finds

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/to-your-health/wp/2014/07/03/psychedelic-drugs-put-your-brain-in-a-waking-dream-study-finds/?tid=sm_fb

by bjchrist • 12 years ago

173 83 12 years ago

washingtonpost.com

the_cat_kittles• 12 years ago

what if some of the lasting effects are really just the powerful insight gained from the temporary perspective shift?

kristofferR7• 12 years ago

Hasn't that always been "known" to be the case among the sane rational users?

lipoicacid• 12 years ago

That was my interpretation, and the article talks about ego death. When one removes ego, it mimics "zen mind, beginner's mind" where you are more open to more ideas. In theory.

shawnz3• 12 years ago

Sure, "known" in the sense of "highly suspected", but of course that doesn't absolve the need for real science on the issue.

kazinator• 12 years ago

I don't know why, but I suddenly feel like watching Altered States. (1980 flick starring William Hurt).

MichaelAO• 12 years ago

Almost positive that movie is based on John C. Lilly (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_C._Lilly) If you're remotely interested, I highly recommend reading his books. 'Programming the Human Biocomputer' and 'The Scientist' were great.

NAFV_P• 12 years ago

How about: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naked_Lunch

anigbrowl• 12 years ago

If you like that you'll appreciate this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HYga-lJOMbE ;)

iammyIP2• 12 years ago

I am looking forward to a time where the existance of these psychoactive drugs becomes more widely accepted for scientific studies and medical treatment without any of the current demonisation. There seems to be too much to learn about the function of the self that it almost seems irresponsible to wash this aside and criminalise it with a last centuries mindset.

kristofferR7• 12 years ago

True, but not just medical/scientific use, responsible personal usage should also be accepted.

test_account_12• 12 years ago

I very much agree with this point.

maroonblazer• 12 years ago

Sam Harris, whose PhD is in neuroscience, wrote a piece on drugs that elegantly lays out the potential benefits and pitfalls that come with the use of hallucinogens, and how there may be other routes, e.g. meditation, to similar experiences. http://www.samharris.org/blog/item/drugs-and-the-meaning-of-...

iammyIP2• 12 years ago

Yes, i think the scientific and medical investigations of these substances could take part in a sociostructural change that may allow these drugs to be accessible for responsible personal usage. That also could imply a paradigmshift towards a better general education and further cultural development which may help to elevate us beyond the puerile behaviour of yesterdays.

Retric3• 12 years ago

There is a ton of psychoactive drugs proscribed every year, so I am not really sure what your suggesting?

People also use alcohol, caffeine, and nicotine vary frequently.

If you mean Hallucinogens, they have been studied extensively and don't seem to be that medically useful. There where a few appetite suppressants which where discontinued and Nitrous oxide still sees some use but it's risky.

kristofferR7• 12 years ago

If you mean Hallucinogens, they have been studied extensively and don't seem to be medically useful.

That's not true at all. "Hallucinogens" is a group of drugs so wide that it already includes many drugs already used in conventional medicine. Just go through the many drugs on this list[1] of hallucinogens, you'll quickly find references to potential medical benefits.

Just "potential benefits" though, since there hasn't been nearly enough research done on most of them yet. A lot of them haven't been scientifically studied at all, the basic work Shulgin did is the only things we know about them.

The most common hallucinogens (mushrooms, LSD, MDMA) were considered as very promising by many in the field until research of the potential benefits of them essentially was banned for decades due to the drug war, but that has begun to change now. [2][3][4]

Recent research indicate that certain hallucinogens may be very useful in treating a variety of medical issues - like depression, anxiety, alcoholism, cluster headaches, PTSD, etc etc. [5][6]

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Hallucinogens

[2] https://www.apa.org/monitor/2010/11/psychedelics.aspx

[3] http://www.psychiatrictimes.com/articles/research-psychedeli...

[4] http://www.theglobeandmail.com/technology/science/brain/high...

[5] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psilocybin#Medical_research

[6] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lsd#Therapies

thatswrong0• 12 years ago

If you mean Hallucinogens, they have been studied extensively and don't seem to be medically useful.

Eh? Studied extensively? Last time I checked they're all schedule I and haven't really been studied since the 70s. On top of that, in the few recent studies that have focused on them, hallucinogens do seem to be medically useful. MDMA for PTSD, psilocybin for terminally ill patients, etc.

clusterfoo• 12 years ago

If you mean Hallucinogens, they have been studied extensively and don't seem to be that medically useful.

LSD and Mushrooms can be an effective treatment for cluster headaches (a debilitating disease which is said to be "The most painful medical condition known to science").

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cluster_headache

Interestingly, the effect lasts for weeks after the dose is taken (and the hallucinatory effects have worn off).

sixQuarks• 12 years ago

You are so ill-informed. Read the book "DMT", from one if the top psychedelic researchers, who states that not only are psychedelics understudied, that much of the research that's been done in the past is not easily accessible. He calls it one of the biggest losses of psychotherapy research

ryanmk• 12 years ago

See this study from Johns Hopkins:

http://www.heffter.org/research-jhus.htm

takeaway: Psilocybin may have a long-term anxiolytic effect.

namlem3• 12 years ago

Psilocybin is the most effective treatment for cluster headaches, and is known to be effective at treating depression as well. LSD has been shown to have significant potential for curing alcoholism.

catshirt2• 12 years ago

"It’s still not clear why such effects can have more profound long-term effects on the brain than our nightly dreams."

maybe because it's not really like dreaming at all?

calling a psychedelic trip a "waking dream" really undermines the way your consciousness is altered during a trip. as a matter of fact, your consciousness is one of the few things that seems consistent through the real world and dream world.

calling it a "waking dream" also kind of undermines how insane dreaming actually is and how little we know about it.

electromagnetic• 12 years ago

Agreed. I've yet to have ego death, or the overwhelming feeling of solipsism when sleeping. The only time I've had even a remotely similar experience when sleeping was the time I had a fever that caused me to hallucinate. That's once in my life, you know of entering a dream state every day of my existence.

I've also yet to have a dream that can overwhelmingly shift my perspective and motivation. An LSD trip made me "take the risk" and move continent with no support to be with my girlfriend. I say "take the risk", because I can just walk into any police station and get my ass deported and land right back at my parents house. Everyone thought I was crazy, but LSD made me see the real probability of risk in that it was negligible.

Mushrooms made me motivated to lose weight. I remember standing in my bathroom naked looking at myself and I came to the conclusion I wanted to be in shape for my son.

Another mushroom trip made me reevaluate risk and see that I have to start my own business. In fact, I just registered a business name and got insurance so I can get licensed.

Funny that dreaming did none of this for me.

max-a• 12 years ago

In debates about what is considered soft drugs I often see opinions of people claiming

lucastx• 12 years ago

I like the way calling it a "waking dream" hints that, during a trip, the subconscious (whatever it is concretely) expands its connection with the conscious mind.

The fact that lucid dreaming is a way to explore your mind ("psychonaut" is a name that both psychedelic users and lucid dreamers use) is more evidence of that, for me.

catshirt2• 12 years ago

good point. i'm just hesitant to throw lucid dreaming, meditation, and LSD into the same bucket. it's like comparing a hammer to a paintbrush to a belt sander.

i mean, they may very well all belong in exactly the same bucket. i am just hesitant to jump to that conclusion.

h1karu2• 12 years ago

on what basis do you base the assumption that the subconscious mind is something "concretely" ? Isn't it's non-concreteness kind of the point of calling it the subconscious ?

cnp3• 12 years ago

"Calling it a "waking dream" also kind of undermines how insane dreaming actually is and how little we know about it."

-- Absolutely true.

thret• 12 years ago

Sleep itself is insane. At least in dreams you're concious more or less, but losing conciousness every night? We'd increase the human lifespan by 50% if we could only eliminate this helpless dependency we have.

http://xkcd.com/203/

tptacek• 12 years ago

Pretty sure those are morels, not psilocybin. Delicious, but not psychoactive.

oneeyedpigeon• 12 years ago

I was thinking the same, but maybe it's because they're dried?

jessaustin2• 12 years ago

Yeah the caption is "a man displays dried mushrooms", as if that had anything to do with anything. Their file-photo folks really mailed it in on this one.

blendergasket• 12 years ago

I find the use of this picture quite immorel.

TallboyOne• 12 years ago

"Psychedelic mushrooms put your brain in a “waking dream,” study finds"

This sounds like an Onion headline, heh. They needed a study to figure that out? Just take 1/4 oz and call me in the morning.

boyaka• 12 years ago

That's basically what Vice did:

http://www.vice.com/hamiltons-pharmacopeia/hamilton-and-the-...

model5002• 12 years ago

I've taken them a few times, and all have been positive experiences that let you explore existence. I remember at the time I was reading Flow the psychology of experience. And while I was under the influence at work, I started thinking about how that book applied to what I was doing, and was seeing it happen all around me ( auto assembly), no loss in motor skills because my skill level of that job was higher than the amount of thought actually needed, so my unused thought energy seperated from my actions, I started looking at things differently, mainly myself and that point of response to stimuli for action or whatever. The point where if you notice it can lead you towards or away certain goals with some sort of common thread.

words cant explain, because it will help each individual upgrade their mental operating system differently.

there was a two week span where I took a small dosage each day, and i felt better than any anti anxiety or anti depressant I've taken previously. Have never taken another "mental" rx medication since, that as about 4 years ago. marijuana excluded ca-legal

shawnz3• 12 years ago

That is incredibly dangerous. It is very likely that you were underestimating how impaired you were.

goldenkey• 12 years ago

It's far more likely than you are unaware of how much our daily tasks are unconsciously automatic and how little credit you give the brain.

balbaugh• 12 years ago

Here is a link to the actual research article, "Enhanced repertoire of brain dynamical states during the psychedelic experience."

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/enhanced/doi/10.1002/hbm.2256...

Alex3917• 12 years ago

For what it's worth, this article was written by a mycologist, not a drug expert. That's why some of the explanations sound a little off. I also don't know anyone who would describe psilocybin as being like a waking dream.

crimsonalucard• 12 years ago

I often hear that these types of drugs can change the way you see the world. As someone who has never taken a psychedelic I wonder if my highly scientific/atheist view of the world will shift after taking a shroom? Can anyone relate?

Lost_BiomedE• 12 years ago

I agree with Carl Sagan on this one. It is more likely that you will attribute any awe or grandeur to something else than a religious construct. This is also why when surveyed a 'religious or spiritual event' is used rather loosely.

nirmel• 12 years ago

I have a scientific + atheistic view of the world, and when I took psilocybes, those views grew stronger and more complex. I do not believe you will have a revelation that makes you believe in God. To the contrary, you'll explore things you think about deeper.

Xcelerate• 12 years ago

I wonder if my highly scientific/atheist view of the world

As someone with a highly scientific/religious view of the world, I too wonder how I would be affected. Curiosity isn't enough to make me try them though.

brudgers• 12 years ago

If you are interested in the subject I'd reccommend reading some Carlos Castaneda. It takes an anthropological view of the issues and conveys his psychedelic experiences in reasonable detail. If you find it to be a bunch of bullshit, then you'll be ahead in the game. If it confirms your warm feelings then at least you will engage the risks better informed.

tluyben2• 12 years ago

The first time I took mushrooms (over 20 years ago) I was walking home when they kicked in at 2 am on a winter night. Looking around me, I saw the snow, trees, grass, buildings very differently than normal; they were all exactly alike. When looking at grass, it looked, literally, like the same texture pasted all over the field. Same for snow, trees, houses. So I sat down with my friend and started talking how the world must be built up of a much lower resolution substance than we think and our minds add randomness to make it seem as if it's more diverse. Shrooms are great in that you remember everything of the trip and it is like you are awake and dreaming; I apparently am more susceptible to it than others; I actually see things which are not there which is more common with LSD. My friends usually saw only some vibrations on the wall and felt funny (and after that paranoid) while I was seeing the armada falling from the sky while hearing orchestra's play. I would recommend anyone at least trying a few times; it changes things long term, but like others said, I don't think you'll move to religious or something like that; if you're scientific, it is more likely to explain things to totally eradicate that last sliver of paranormal stuff in the world. As in; then you actually know what they ate before they saw the holy spirit descend.

ScottBurson• 12 years ago

Not necessarily, but it could if you are open to it.

You won't lose the ability to apply the scientific frame of mind when it's appropriate, but you may have a better understanding of its limitations.

xj9• 12 years ago

I can't speak for mushrooms, but from my experiences with LSD I'd say, "it's complicated." Psychedelics don't turn you into a different person, however they do remove the filters and barriers we've built up in our heads (to what extent depends on the dosage). If, on some level, you aren't sure about your world view it will probably be reassessed.

I, for example, was raised Mormon, but it was never all that convincing to me. By the time I decided that I wanted to start experimenting with psychedelics I had already stopped participating in the religion, though I had my doubts that this was the correct course of action. Taking LSD, and other psychedelics, helped me resolve those conflicts.

The idea that psychedelics tend to put into your head is that everything is connected, everything is one. That concept broke down my loosely held notion that God was some kind of supreme alien who liked telling us what to do, and led me to take on a rather Eastern world view that the universe is at once one thing, nothing, and infinite.

namlem3• 12 years ago

I've definitely shifted a little towards pantheism since the first time I took LSD. The thing is though, my views didn't really change much, it's more that I gained a greater sense of respect for the universe.

stephenitis• 12 years ago

“Except for some naïve users who go looking for a good time…which, by the way, is not how it plays out,”

Shrooms and LSD is not a party drug. I repeat. not a party drug.

swayvil2• 12 years ago

Depends on much. I have had an excellent time partying on LSD.

Shrooms, however, no. Some of my friends, but not me. Too intense. Maybe a matter of dosage.

llllllllllll2• 12 years ago

Really depends.

Absolutely not for a first time, you're right. For me though, as I became more comfortable with the altered psychedelic state of mind, being around people became much easier. I wouldn't want to be trapped at a party, but I've stopped in at them for 30-40 minutes, had fun, and then left to move onto the next thing.

The important part for me is to have options, whether that's a ride back home, a nearby park, someone to take a walk, an Ipod and some headphones, etc.

namlem3• 12 years ago

LSD can work for certain types of parties. I can't really see shrooms being fun at any kind of party though.

swayvil2• 12 years ago

now we just have to figure out what a dream is

pessimizer2• 12 years ago

I don't even think that there is such a thing. A dream is what you think just happened when you wake up with your brain in an inconsistent state, and it rationalizes how it arrived there. People's subjective experience of their own dreams changes based on cultural expectations:

Why Did We Think We Dreamed in Black and White?

http://www.faculty.ucr.edu/~eschwitz/SchwitzAbs/DreamB&W.htm

edit: "In the 1950s, dream researchers commonly thought that dreams were predominantly a black and white phenomenon, although both earlier and later treatments of dreaming assume or assert that dreams have color. The first half of the twentieth century saw the rise of black and white film media, and it is likely that the emergence of the view that dreams are black and white was connected to this change in film technology. If our opinions about basic features of our dreams can change with changes in technology, it seems to follow that our knowledge of the experience of dreaming is much less secure than we might at first have thought it to be."

pessimizer2• 12 years ago

I've never been downvoted for my lack of belief in dreams before. It's a strange experience:)

dutchbrit• 12 years ago

I like how this guy explains it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrYl9krZksk

Psychedelic mushrooms put your brain in a “waking dream,” study finds

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