Ted Kennedy has died

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/27/us/politics/27kennedy.html?hp

by dzlobin • 17 years ago

110 143 17 years ago

Mystalic• 17 years ago

This may not be tech, but the impact he's made is bigger than any one industry.

To comprehend the breadth of this man's persona, ask yourself "what do I do each day to help other people?" The man never stopped.

CamperBob• 17 years ago

I volunteer as a lifeguard.

fretlessjazz3• 17 years ago

At 10,000 swimming pools at once?

byrneseyeview• 17 years ago

I avoid driving them home while drunk and then abandoning them underwater. I also try not to pat myself on the back for using my family connections to get into a position where I can spend other people's money on my pet projects.

So far, the New York Times hasn't said anything nice about me. On the other hand, I can sleep at night.

mynameishere2• 17 years ago

His greatest influence on history, without comment,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_and_Nationality_Act...

anigbrowl• 17 years ago

(edit: I have nothing to say, and I'm saying it. You don't have to upvote it but it isn't meant as a comment to be downvoted either, just an acknowledgment).

sho4• 17 years ago

What? I was showing him how to do it!

Man people sure are happy on the down-arrow today.

jcl• 17 years ago

What value does an empty comment add to the conversation?

sev• 17 years ago

This man's presence was earth-shattering. His legend will be even more so. The world has a lot to learn from him. RIP

idlewords5• 17 years ago

What is Ted Kennedy's lesson for the world? From my perspective, the guy was a career politician and part of an unpleasant dynastic trend in American government. How would the world be different had Kennedy not lived?

spking5• 17 years ago

Exactly. I'm so sick of politician worshipping by the left and the right. Did Ted Kennedy ever have a real (i.e. private sector) job in his entire life? No. He was a drunken womanizer who spent other people's money. Good riddance. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ted_Kennedy

akd8• 17 years ago

For 50 years Ted Kennedy has been the US government's leading defender of the poor. If he hasn't impacted your life, you probably aren't poor.

TomOfTTB3• 17 years ago

Especially this one. I'm hesitant to comment on this because this article really doesn't belong here. But the fact remains Ted Kennedy left a woman for dead after driving his car into a body of water. He didn't contact the authorities when it happened, he instead went back to his hotel. When at his hotel (and I take this quote from the Wikipedia entry) he...

"According to his own testimony, Kennedy swam across the 500-foot channel, back to Edgartown and returned to his hotel room, where he removed his clothes and collapsed on his bed. Hearing noises, he later put on dry clothes and asked someone what the time was: it was something like 2:30 a.m., the senator recalled. He testified that, as the night went on, "I almost tossed and turned and walked around that room ... I had not given up hope all night long that, by some miracle, Mary Jo would have escaped from the car." Back at his hotel, Kennedy complained at 2:55 am to the hotel owner that he had been awoken by a noisy party"

So he's complaining about the noise keeping him up while this woman's still at the bottom of the sea. The next morning (again from Wikipedia)...

"By 7:30 am the next morning he was talking "casually" to the winner of the previous day's sailing race, with no indication that anything was amiss.[2] At 8 a.m., Gargan and Markham joined Kennedy at his hotel where they had a "heated conversation." According to Kennedy's testimony, the two men asked why he hadn't reported the accident. Kennedy responded by telling them "about my own thoughts and feelings as I swam across that channel ... that somehow when they arrived in the morning that they were going to say that Mary Jo was still alive"

And the final kicker, he didn't contact the authorities until the body was found and the woman probably survived the crash. One last quote...

"Earlier that morning, two amateur fishermen had seen the overturned car in the water and notified the inhabitants of the nearest cottage to the pond, who called the authorities at around 8:20 am.[14] A diver was sent down and discovered Kopechne's body at around 8:45 am.[15] The diver, John Farrar, later testified at the inquest that Kopechne's body was pressed up in the car in the spot where an air bubble would have formed. He interpreted this to mean that Kopechne had survived for a while after the initial accident in the air bubble, and concluded that

"Had I received a call within five to ten minutes of the accident occurring, and was able, as I was the following morning, to be at the victim's side within twenty-five minutes of receiving the call, in such event there is a strong possibility that she would have been alive on removal from the submerged car."

So had he contacted the authorities she could have lived. And for all that he got a suspended sentence because he's rich and has a powerful family. I won't demonize the dead but I'm not going to sit by and let people lionize him either.

How is it that people can bash Michael Jackson after unproven accusations but let Kennedy off even though he admits to everything laid out above?

jsares2• 17 years ago

Surprisingly from Digg:

o The Civil Rights Act of 1964

o The Voting Rights Act of 1965

o The COBRA Act of 1985 (ever lost a job and still managed to keep your health insurance for 18 months?)

o The Americans with Disabilities Act in 1990

o The Family and Medical Leave Act in 1993

o Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act of 1996

nettdata• 17 years ago

Dennis Leary said it best: Great Senator, but a bad date.

larryfreeman• 17 years ago

He did the seeming impossible: he lived up to the reputation of his brothers as their equal. An amazing senator. A very great loss.

oldgregg2• 17 years ago

Indeed, nobody can question the reputation of this mans virility.

blasdel2• 17 years ago

While Ted was a pretty cool guy, eh garnered appropriations and doesn't afraid of anything, I don't think anyone could really live up to his brothers.

John was an order of magnitude greater, and Bobby was at least an order of magnitude greater than that!

Bobby was everything Obama aspires to be and more. His assassination was probably the worst event of '68 -- and a fuckton of awful shit happened that year: the crushing of Prague Spring, the events of May in Paris, MLK's assassination, the DNC in Chicago, the burning of DC, Nixon's election -- it was the last gasp of modernity. I can't think about it without crying.

jhancock• 17 years ago

I was just thinking of those events this past week as I see how the media is assisting corporate/industry status quo to fight health care reform. Regardless of what you think of the details of this current legislation (I'm not a fan of some details myself), a key thing, and HN appropriate, to understand is this is the battle ground for change of any sort, not just health care. Industry will fight these sweeping changes since if they win this battle, they feel the momentum for other change may be curtailed.

Media doesn't work for the viewer/reader, they work for the advertiser. This fundamental is mostly the same since 1968. A key difference between 1968 and 2009 is the level of refinement and completeness of this control.

Is this comment HN appropriate? Most startups talk about being disruptive. That's not so hard to do if your building a web-widget. But that's hardly being disruptive. You want to do something BIG? Be prepared for lots of opposition from industry status quo.

You want to be disruptive like John or Bobby Kennedy or MLK Jr.? You have to be prepared to die to be that kind of Hacker.

aquateen• 17 years ago

How are you quantifying greatness? Everyone on this site loves to say "order of magnitude."

mynameishere2• 17 years ago

and Bobby was at least an order of magnitude greater than that

How in hell did you arrive at that? What's next...Edsel Ford an order of magnitude greater than Henry? Is nepotism really that powerful?

cwan2• 17 years ago

An alternative viewpoint from Reason - Ted Kennedy and the Death (Hopefully) of an Era: The controversial senator belonged to a different age, one ill-suited to today's increasingly decentralized world (http://www.reason.com/news/show/135658.html)

Excerpt: "The legislation for which he will be remembered is precisely the sort of top-down, centralized legislation that needs to be jettisoned in the 21st century. [...] Bigger was better, and government at every level but especially at the highest level, had to lead the way. In an increasingly flat, dispersed, networked world in which power, information, knowledge, purchasing power, and more was rapidly decentralizing, Kennedy was all for sitting at the top of a pyramid and directing activity."

oldgregg2• 17 years ago

Sad to see him go-- on the upside, he can finally be reunited with his brothers and old family friends like Mary Jo Kopechne and Martha Moxley.

spking5• 17 years ago

Nice!

pwmanagerdied• 17 years ago

Except that he won't.

ivankirigin2• 17 years ago

I heard some young girl was drunk and got in a car accident, and left him for dead. (too soon?)

msie• 17 years ago

I heard that some guy joined Facebook and left TipJoy for dead. (too soon?) ;)

ivankirigin2• 17 years ago

lol.

On a serious note, I wrote the comment mainly because people ignore manslaughter, which is inexcusable. But also because a person that spends years in public office isn't there "for the public good". That's just rhetoric that gets people elected. I'm amazed people still buy into the idea that politicians are good people. Enterprising startup founders, or even miscellaneous hackers working on interesting projects, do far more for the public good.

gaius2• 17 years ago

Man, 77, dies.

fauigerzigerk4• 17 years ago

So you're posting this here just in case hackers don't read newspapers?

stevoski• 17 years ago

Right on. Those of us outside the states just don't care that one of your politicians died - unless he was a competent computer expert. I come here for "Hacker News", not political death notices.

Shall I post here when a long-serving New Zealand politician dies?

akd8• 17 years ago

Yes, you should. The voting buttons will determine the fate of the story.

plinkplonk2• 17 years ago

"Shall I post here when a long-serving New Zealand politician dies?"

Ahh but you aren't going to get the upvotes to get it onto the HN front page. HN membership is dominated by Americans. No harm in that really except for stuff like this.

As an Indian, I don't particularly care to have US politics / news of the demise of sundry USA politicians on the HN front page either, but the "intellectually interesting" filter is wide enough to allow this kind of thing to happen occasionally. I think of it as static on an otherwise clear channel, and wait for it to pass.

As long as there are enough people to upvote these stories, I don't think there is anything anyone can do about it. Just wait for it to drop off the front page.

But otoh, perhaps the non USA contingent on HN should vote up the news of the death of some non US politician and keep it on the front page? Maybe one of the communist bosses of China when he goes to the big Party Office in The Sky.

palish2• 17 years ago

So click the "flag" button on the article. If enough of us flag it, then the article gets killed.

JacobAldridge2• 17 years ago

As an Australian, I care.

The influence of America on the rest of the world, particularly insignificant antipodean islands like yours and mine, is massive and the death of Democratic Senator #60 (I'm counting the two independents where they caucus) has potentially large consequences for the power struggle in Washington.

That's it's Teddy Kennedy, long-time driver of Health Care reform at a time when that's either the #1 or 2 issue in the States, makes it even more so. You don't think efficiencies for Big Pharma in the US would affect our health care?

Admittedly, I'm a bit of an amerophile, particularly US politics. The US Electoral College? Possibly the greatest social hack of the 18th Century.

Oompa• 17 years ago

Ted Kennedy was a well known political hacker.

_pius2• 17 years ago

If you want. But the sad fact is, no one will care about that story.

And if people do care, the story will get a bunch of upvotes. Let the voting and flagging systems work their magic.

rms3• 17 years ago

Please don't post "not Hacker News" comments. It makes for extremely uninteresting reading. Now the first thing anyone sees when they click on the comments for this story is this boring thread.

http://ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

fauigerzigerk4• 17 years ago

In that case why don't you just flag (or rather [dead]) my post instead of commenting on it and hence contributing to this boring thread?

[edit] I don't like the flag feature because it prevents people from disagreeing with me, maybe explaining why they think the article is interesting.

JacobAldridge2• 17 years ago

Firstly, I think this has a place here, and I think the votes reflect that (I'd also be happy if it were submitted and received no votes - that's the purpose of the site).

I'd be interested in any discussion about the impact this may have on more relevant areas of ours lives - areas that unite us under the HN brand, that probably won't be discussed in newspapers.

How might this impact the Health Care debate, with the subsequent impact on start-ups hiring staff or freelancers / solo businesses for whom illness might sicken them but kill their business aspirations?

Kennedy's death also minimises the possibility of Cloture in the Senate, since short-term Democrat thinking in the Mass. congress means their Senate seats can only be filled by special election, not appointment. If the Washington Democrats were to push for legislation that would support tech development, broadband access, or small business, might it be blocked by filibuster techniques?

Perhaps even a broader debate on hacker perception of the role of politicians, using Kennedy's legacy as a focal point, or the role of power in an age of information far removed from when Jackie, Bobby and Teddy sought politics as the only way to influence national policy?

fauigerzigerk4• 17 years ago

I'm not saying politics has no place here. That's why I didn't want to flag the article. But the linked to article is plain headline news, not the kind of interesting debate you describe.

physcab• 17 years ago

Surprised to see that Michael Jackson's death received far more attention and positive remarks than what is being said here.

ecq• 17 years ago

he is a great man. rest in peace.

dangrover2• 17 years ago

I was in Mass General Hospital about a year ago on the exact day that Kennedy was. Strangely enough, I found out I had brain cancer too that night. Luckily, mine was not as serious as his. I feel fortunate.

edw519• 17 years ago

Get well, Dan.

dangrover2• 17 years ago

Oh, no, I'm perfectly fine now. I found out a month after they did the craniotomy that it wasn't a big deal.

muriithi• 17 years ago

What I can gather from his Wikipedia page is that Kennedy, like Clinton was a good politician but a consummate womaniser.

I have always wondered why citizens expect politicians to be 'moral' and whether 'immoral' politicians are necessarily bad leaders?

unalone13• 17 years ago

America's got a fucked-up sense of morality. Everybody's messed up in one way or another romantically. We have a distorted sense of expectation, mixed with a bunch of weird ideas about what's appropriate and what isn't.

There've been many perfect gentlemen politicians that were terrible. I hope one day we start judging politicians the way we would businessmen, wherein personal life matters less than performance.

nandemo• 17 years ago

Just a minor quibble, not meant to detract your point: it's curious that even as you criticize America's sense of morality, you seem to use "gentlemen" as opposed to "womanizer".

roundsquare3• 17 years ago

> I have always wondered why citizens expect politicians to be 'moral' and whether 'immoral' politicians are necessarily bad leader

I think its the need to relate it to something easier to understand. Policy positions can be complex and subtle, but for a lot of people, "don't cheat on your wife/husband" is an absolute and a convenient/simple (albeit horribly inaccurate) metric.

hughprime3• 17 years ago

Politicians have a lot of power, and that power can easily be misused. All other things being equal, I'd much prefer to elect an honest politician with strong moral fibre to a dishonest one with few scruples.

If a guy can't resist the temptation to break a promise he made to his wife for the sake of a few cheap kicks, it's less likely that he can resist the temptation to, say, hand out political favours to his favourite campaign donors.

danielrhodes2• 17 years ago

For those of you who are questioning why this deserves to be here: obviously HN is predominantly tech/entrepreneur related, but don't be so fundamentalist about it. Ted Kennedy was a prolific senator who was one of the most influential members of the most powerful government in the world -- his death deserves discussion not just among those interested in politics but in other circles as well. HN has a great community where people value good analysis and feedback, why not occasionally apply those positive aspects to other topics as well?

unalone13• 17 years ago

There's a value in asking whether something's Hacker News or not. In the end, we are the users, and we decide what we want to see. When we don't like what we see, however, there's no harm in discussing it, in the hope that like-minded people see it and are inspired.

danielrhodes2• 17 years ago

That's what the voting buttons next to the story are for. If you discuss the article itself, then you should add value to the discussion. Complaining about the presence of the story itself when the community obviously voted it up to the top is not adding value, it's only adding negativity.

davidw2• 17 years ago

> why not occasionally apply those positive aspects to other topics as well

Because some of us believe strongly that "other topics" (well, specifically politics and lots of economics) don't mix well with the continued existence of the aforementioned positive aspects.

huherto• 17 years ago

It is interesting to me because it closes a chapter in American history as the last of the Kennedy brothers. Plus I have already learned a few things I didn't know.

flipper• 17 years ago

An oblique link to HN - Kennedy was a senator for Massachusetts, the original home of YC.

asciilifeform• 17 years ago

Why is this here? I'm a US citizen and I still don't think it ought to be.

TheElder2• 17 years ago

It shouldn't be, but politics is a religion for many who lean left. One of the biggest liberal names just passed away, so it's here. My comment is way out of line, but so is this submission, but that's what happens when politics is introduced.

biohacker425• 17 years ago

It shouldn't be, but politics is a religion for many who lean left

Aw crap, you and I are now gong to start a political argument on HN. Well it's a Ted Kennedy story so here we go.

A clear majority of hackers, including me, are libertarians, not liberals. And I guess (but actually mostly hope) most of the HN readership is libertarian.

And I definitely don't think this belongs on HN. But I also very much doubt "liberals" are voting it up.

bct• 17 years ago

Saying "politics is a religion for many who lean left" is deliberately inflammatory. You don't get to blame the topic of conversation for your own bad behaviour.

_pius2• 17 years ago

It shouldn't be, but politics is a religion for many who lean left.

Complete and utter flamebait. Worse, it's tripe ... the comment doesn't even make sense.

biohacker425• 17 years ago

Also, Michael Jackson - still dead!

dgabriel• 17 years ago

Ok, now I see why we should stay away from politics on HN. Too many people are downvoting/upvoting based on their political perceptions of TK. Do you really need to downvote someone into the negative for simply saying they liked the guy?

unalone13• 17 years ago

Jeez, they downvoted you for it, too.

Hacker News is very mature regarding certain things; regarding others, they act like kneejerk jackasses. Politics is one of the latter categories.

johnohara• 17 years ago

Like so many on both sides of the aisle, he was too long a 'public servant.' Rest and be at peace.

kingkawn3• 17 years ago

If still alive he'd be a major force for passing the kind of healthcare legislation that could have liberated Americans from employer-provided insurance as the only option. This would have freed a great deal of energy for risks like starting a business. That he became sick and died now is a a loss of leadership in the effort to make the dynamism of entrepreneurship, among other things, available to more people.

protomyth3• 17 years ago

The government is treaty-obligated to provide health care to a section of the population and are doing a offensive job. If they can't do it right for ~7 million Native Americans, what chance do they have to do it right for the rest of the USA?

kingkawn3• 17 years ago

They do it right for veterans, and they even do it fairly well for the elderly. Why not everyone else?

zeynel1• 17 years ago

Where is the flag button?

Ted Kennedy has died

Related Stories