Engineer's Guide to US Visas

http://blog.sourcing.io/visa-guide?

by maccman • 12 years ago

237 198 12 years ago

blog.sourcing.io

jval• 12 years ago

Cool guide, but I think the E-3's dual intent rules are a bit weird:

http://www.uscis.gov/sites/default/files/USCIS/Laws/Memorand...

"An application for initial admission, change of status or extension of stay in E-3 classification, however, may not be denied solely on the basis of an approved request for permanent labor certification or a filed or approved immigrant visa preference petition."

It's not explicitly dual intent but the memo makes it clear that they won't kick you out for pursuing PR.

adaml_623• 12 years ago

Kicking someone out of a country for deciding that they like working there and would like to stay permanently should fit everyone's definition of weird.

(I am of course aware that it is standard practice in the immigrant fearing bureaucratic world we live in today.)

huntsman• 12 years ago

Yes, applying for permanent residence with an E-3 visa is possible and not prohibited by dual intent. I successfully did this and there were no problems.

thomseddon• 12 years ago

To anyone with experience with a H1-B: How closely related does your degree have to be?

I get the impression this is a relatively grey area - I have a BEng in Civil Engineering, in my opinion it's somewhat related, I just wondered if there is a clear guidance on this?

Stratego• 12 years ago

It has to be STEM degree: http://www.ice.gov/sevis/stemlist.htm

logicallee• 12 years ago

"Civil Engineering" is listed in your linked STEM-Designated Degree Program List.

NhanH• 12 years ago

Another question regard the H1-B: is it a bad idea trying to file H1-B without a lawyer? I'm working for a startup, and in the spirit of not-wasting-money, we're trying to file the H1B by ourselves, would that be too risky?

maguirre• 12 years ago

Don't try to file w/o a lawyer, you will come to regret it. It might be cheaper to do so ($$ wise) but in the end you will be treated with more respect if you have legal representation standing behind you.

source (anecdotal): I went through the process of obtaining visa(s) with and without legal representation

spiralpolitik4• 12 years ago

Do not do anything immigration related without a lawyer. Ever.

dhfromkorea• 12 years ago

This is a nice run-down for those looking to swerve into the U.S. for a valid reason (work/study)

If anyone seeks less-than-a-year-long work, J-1 Visas are arguably the easiest to get if one has some affiliation with a university. (i.e. students)

Proof of concept: I have co-run a non-profit program which connected people in Finland with startups in the Bay Area. I wish there would be more programs similar to http://startuplife.fi (sent close to 100 so far and more than a dozen YC companies have signed up for the program last batch.)

Another related blogpost for the J1 track: http://blog.sendtoinc.com/2013/12/11/silicon-valley-internsh...

hackerboos2• 12 years ago

"It's for this reason I suggest coming out to SF on your own accord, staying for a short while, and lining up a bunch of interviews with all the companies you're interested in."

I believe this is only for B1/B2 visa holders and those who are part of the Visa Waiver Program (UK/Aus etc.).

You're not supposed to look for work or attend interviews on a tourist visa.

ivanca3• 12 years ago

And you are not supposed to spy on the emails of all the other countries including their prime ministers and senators... but who are we to judge?

hackerboos2• 12 years ago

Hardly relevant.

milemi3• 12 years ago

Spying on communications of foreigners, especially highly placed officials, is actually the intelligence agencies' only reason for being.

acchow• 12 years ago

The key is "intent" - you cannot enter on a tourist visa if your intent is to work or look for work.

Keep in mind that your current actions can greatly influence how they perceive your "intent" in the future.

Patient0• 12 years ago

Yes I can't believe he stated this without at least warning to be careful about this.

If an immmigration officer asks you at entry point "So why are you coming to San Francisco?" and you answered "I was going to interview with a few companies"? then they could quite reasonably refuse entry based on the idea that you are trying to gain entry on the wrong visa.

tn13• 12 years ago

Please note that spouse can not do any consulting for home company. Spouse can do no productive work.

botolo• 12 years ago

You're right. I have been a spouse of an H1B holder and I could not do anything, not even volunteering or starting my own business. Before doing any of this, please get the assistance of an immigration lawyer. Doing something wrong under your current visa can jeopardize future visas you may receive one day.

daleharvey• 12 years ago

I am fairly interested in the rules around Visa Waivers.

I have been working for american companies remotely for a while, I do fairly regular visits to the american offices, generally 'Work Meeting' will get you straight passed, but I have a few times been questioned exactly what I do at these work meetings and once tiredly and mistakenly mentioning programming, was very close to being refused entry.

The other issue I couldnt find any documentation on how long a visa waiver is valid for, it is given for 3 months, but is that 3 months out of the year or just 3 months at a time? over a full year I occasionally get close to this and was mostly curious.

DrJokepu3• 12 years ago

If the customs officer admits you to the United States on visa waiver (WT/WB status) you need leave the United States within 90 days or less. In addition to that, you cannot change your visa waiver status to any other non-immigrant status without departing the United States (e.g. you cannot switch to H1B within America while on WT/WB).

nobodysfool• 12 years ago

You can change your visa waiver status to another status without departing the USA. My ex wife was from Italy, she came here on vwp and we got married. She stayed during the AOS process.

makmanalp2• 12 years ago

warning: I am not a lawyer and thus not qualified to give legal advice, etc.

I don't know specifically about your situation and the VWP but it's not allowed to do things in the country other than your stated purpose, and other than what your visa allows.

See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B_visa#Uses_of_a_B1.2FB2_visa

Looks like most normal work is not allowed, except for the last provision there. If you follow to the source, it says "These would-be entrants are not allowed to receive remuneration from a US source (other than an expense allowance or reimbursement) and must be customarily employed by a non-US firm that will continue to pay their salary during the temporary assignment in the US.". So there you have it.

devnonymous• 12 years ago

FTA:"However, in my experience, it's absolutely worth it. Moving here was the best thing I ever did. It's an incredible country, and the opportunities here in tech are second to none."

I wonder if given the current political, social and economical situation in the US, whether this (still ?) is the prevalent view within the tech community ? Having been to the US multiple times between 2005-2012, I was completely turned off the country. While I agree some of the best companies are based there, I wouldn't like living there.

jpatokal• 12 years ago

"The US" is big and non-homogeneous. Even SF and LA are surprisingly different, much less NY, DC, Austin, Orlando, Honolulu, Nashville, Fargo...

Dewie2• 12 years ago

That person is from England/has lived in England. I'd say that the only thing one could say is that tech worker from England thought the US was better.

mehrdada2• 12 years ago

If you lose in the lottery, they'll refund the fees. One caveat to bear in mind is that applying for this visa shows intent, which may disqualify you for visas in the future which aren't dual intent, such as the B-1 & B-2 visitor visas.

(IANAL, but:) This is very wrong on at least two counts: there is no fee for enrolling in the lottery and if anyone charges for it, they are a scammer and you should enroll directly on dvlottery.state.gov site (as explicitly stated in its FAQ). Also, simply signing up for lottery is generally not sufficient ground for immigration intent (though being conservative doesn't hurt).

hartator• 12 years ago

I think he was confused with the situation when you actually win it. If you start the process of getting it, it will show immigration intents and you have fees to pay.

mehrdada2• 12 years ago

That's certainly true: it shows immigration intent at that point, like any application for permanent residence, but no fees will be refunded if for some reason your application gets denied.

makmanalp2• 12 years ago

warning: I am not a lawyer and thus not qualified to give legal advice, etc.

I've been heard similarly about the DV lottery and immigrant intent before. That said, if you're from one of the lower immigration countries, apparently the success rate is reasonably high for multiple retries.

Page 12 here has more info on the issue: http://www.wolfsdorf.com/articles/DV_Article_2004-05.pdf

Timothee• 12 years ago

I'll add that the initial registration is extremely easy and certainly does not require the help from an outside company. When I signed up in the past, if I remember correctly, it was very basic information about my identity, a picture and how to contact me. That was done in just a few minutes.

Once you win the lottery, it might or might not be wise to get help, but I don't really know since I didn't win.

daGrevis• 12 years ago

Thanks for this a lot! I'm planning to move to USA when I can and this helps to see the whole picture.

My best bet would be a company that really wants me to work for them and arranges all of this.

gdiocarez• 12 years ago

Title is deceiving....

blackjable• 12 years ago

As a UK citizen I am making a living as a software engineer (contractor). Would I be able to get live and do the same work in America?

buro92• 12 years ago

There are two things that give me serious pause about living and working in the USA, and that have made me not pursue or accept opportunities that I've been offered in Seattle and San Francisco.

1) Visas & immigration

2) Health

seanmcdirmid2• 12 years ago

After spending more than 6 years in china, I can see the USA is not really that bad on those two points.

blacktulip• 12 years ago

What is wrong with China's health service? It is far more affordable than US

davidw4• 12 years ago

I agree those things are less than optimal in the US, but at a personal level:

1) The visa stuff is a PITA, but if you are in a situation where you can tell some company to deal with it, it shouldn't be too bad.

2) You get pretty good health care working for most companies in the US as a programmer. If you lose your job, you can presumably relocate to where you were before that has a different health care system.

bertil4• 12 years ago

Most European countries have a health-care system that depends on you being part of the system: children of someone insured, student, employee, spouse, unemployed who was employed before and often manager of a company. Having worked abroad and recently coming into the country after non paying taxes (with presumably your life in disarray because the company you dedicated yourself too fired you, closed or proved to be a sham) sets you clearly out of that system.

a-priori• 12 years ago

Speaking as a Canadian on #2, I have a couple problems there that prevent me even considering moving to the States:

1) My wife has a chronic health problem. What guarantee do I have that if she needed treatment, for that or something else, that insurance wouldn't find a way to weasel out of covering it? Also, eventually I would lose coverage under OHIP, the Ontario Health Insurance Plan, after an extended absence (1-2 years? not sure exactly), so going back to Canada for treatment would not be an option forever.

2) My health insurance would be covered and sponsored by my employer. I'm already dependent on my employer for my income. In my mind, also depending on them for health care coverage is putting too many eggs in one basket.

wil4213• 12 years ago

2. Health

Dont believe the hype if you work for a company that is going to sponsor your visa, chances are they will provide health insurance. I pay $25 a month for myself and $175 if I had a family of 4.

My girlfriend uses Obama Care and pays $21 for basic insurance. Unless you are self employed then chances are you wont be paying much and now with the new health plans even these plans are affordable.

joncrocks• 12 years ago

Even with healthcare coverage however, it's just a lot more complicated.

I'm from the UK, and if something is wrong, your biggest challenge is making appointments with the right people.

Some of my colleagues from the UK who have had to go and see someone in the US report that it's a minefield of: a) Checking which doctors take your kind of coverage b) Co-pays c) Ensuring you know what you are/aren't covered for d) Random bills that may appear after you visit someone, depending on whether their interaction with the insurance company

auctiontheory• 12 years ago

My girlfriend uses Obama Care and pays $21 for basic insurance.

I used Obamacare for the month of January. My plan cost $507, I received the card on the 30th of the month (so the plan was unusable before then), and they (Blue Shield) were impossible to reach. They have a very understaffed phone line for Obamacare users, separate from their "regular" service for group plans.

untog2• 12 years ago

Honestly, the visa and immigration stuff is more of a problem for the company hiring you than for you yourself. As someone originally from the UK, I'll agree with the health stuff, though. The system here is an utter mess.

cbaleanu2• 12 years ago

Should also add that if you are married, your wife / husband cannot work if you are on H1B.

I found this deeply disturbing, as my wife is a skilled professional in another field and if I were to accept an H1B offer, she would had to become a house wife more or less.

hpagey• 12 years ago

A minor correction, if you are married, your spouse cannot work if they hold a H-4 visa. They are allowed to work if someone is willing to sponsor their H1B, L1. They are also allowed to work on F1-Visa, using OPT/CPT.

eloisant2• 12 years ago

When I was in us, my wife has a non working visa. It didn't prevent her to find a job at a company who sponsored her to get her own work visa, about a year after we arrived.

ldite• 12 years ago

I found this diagram informative (although not comprehensive, and probably a bit politicised): http://reason.com/assets/db/07cf533ddb1d06350cf1ddb5942ef5ad...

(via http://reason.com/blog/2008/09/24/new-at-reason-mike-flynn-s... )

knuxus• 12 years ago

Anyone know about something similar but applied to Canada?

deskamess• 12 years ago

NAFTA treaties have options for US and Mexico citizens.

For the rest there is the temporary foreign worker program. Your Canadian company has to do labor market opinions and all that stuff - could be time consuming. It is valid for 4 years. After 1 (one) year of starting your job, you can apply for permanent residency under the Canadian Experience Class [CEC] and it is self directed (no employer help needed at that point). Current processing times if you have applied within Canada is 13 months.

If you have not got your permanent residency by 4 years, but you have applied for and have a reference number, you can get a renewable 1 year open work permit that lets you work for anybody.

Computer jobs are covered by CEC, but not all jobs are.

You are eligible for health care after 3 months of being on the job. Until then you can get private coverage.

courtson5• 12 years ago

If you are are fortunate enough to have the liquidity needed (E.g.: you've already participated in a successful exit in a startup in your home country), there is always the EB-5 investor visa. (invest a half a million to a million dollars and create 10 jobs)

Obviously not an option for everyone, but if it is available to you, it may be one of the easiest ways, as you can get a green card relatively quickly via that route.

kartikkumar5• 12 years ago

This is the main reason I've given up. It's not an effective use of anyone's time to wade through the US immigration mess. My J-1 visa expired last October. I was in SF for my PhD research on a J-1 and had to suddenly return to Europe last April due to unforeseen family circumstances. I was in the process of filing for a waiver when I was in SF and had a long call with someone at Google about a position I'd applied for. I discovered that I had just missed the H1B deadline, so there was pretty much no way for me to get a job in 2013.

Now that I'm back in Europe, I've been looking into applying for a J-1 waiver and it's just form after form after form. Additionally, you have to pay something in the region of $2000 according to an immigration lawyer I sought out and with that I'd only be throwing my name in the ring, with the possibility that the State Department would reject my waiver application apparently.

I absolutely fell in love with SF whilst I was living there and would love to make it back now that I'm wrapping up my PhD, but I think it's neigh on impossible given the current bureaucracy involved.

Guess I'm just gonna wait it out and hope for immigration reform to kick in.

maccman• 12 years ago

It sounds like you may be eligible for the O1 visa.

kartikkumar5• 12 years ago

I thought of exploring that, but TBH, my understanding is that you have to be a "publishing machine" to even stand the chance of being considered and unfortunately I haven't been as productive as I had wished during my PhD in terms of number of papers. Maybe I should investigate this further, but the original article also seems to indicate that an O1 is a long shot.

ankzap2• 12 years ago

J1 waiver isn't too bad. Yes, it involves some paper-work, but nothing that would need an immigration lawyer. You can do everything yourself, and costs about $200 last I checked.

Also look into the O1 visa that doesn't require a waiver, and has no quotas.

kartikkumar5• 12 years ago

Ok, that's good to know. That's an order-of-magnitude less than I was told. I guess I should look into it in more detail. In the meantime I have accepted a postdoc position in Europe, so I'm in no immediate rush to get the visa situation sorted out. Would just be nice to be able to sort things out so that once my postdoc is done I've got a better chance of returning to the Bay Area.

With regards to the O1 visa, I've heard that you have to really stand out in your field of research, as the original article states, and unfortunately, during my PhD I haven't really achieved that level of success.

Thanks in any case for the info!

j1throwaway• 12 years ago

I applied for J-1 waiver last summer. It's a painful bureaucratic process but it's not too hard to follow. You have to fill up DS-3035 [1] and get a no objection certificate from your embassy or government. Most embassies in US have some standard procedure for sending no objection certificate directly. After that, they'll take about a couple of months to approve your waiver.

You can do it all by yourself and in total you won't have to pay more than $500 ($215 for DS-3035 + fee for no objection letter.) Go for it!

[1] http://travel.state.gov/content/visas/english/study-exchange...

lucasnemeth• 12 years ago

Nice summary. I think it missed one important detail, only US-masters can apply to the extended H1-B quota, if you got a master degree outside the US you are not eligible to that quota and falls under the normal cap.

TravisLS• 12 years ago

What's the perceived benefit of not allowing the spouse to work? Is this a "they took our jobs" situation, or is there something substantive behind that policy?

yardie• 12 years ago

I'm assuming it's 2 things:

1. These visas are for specializations. This implies that the job is unique and pays well above average salaries so a spouse shouldn't need to work.

2. They want to be attractive yet not too attractive. I'm sure in the subcommittee negotiations on quota it came down to spouses or quotas, (we can let 35,000 families or 70,000 workers). If you watch the government channel they negotiate endlessly over petty things like this.

drpgq• 12 years ago

"When the H-1B cap is reached, large companies like Google often look to L-1s instead, moving new employees to their Canadian offices for a year to make them eligible."

Huh. I knew Microsoft did this in Vancouver but hadn't heard about Google also using it although it makes sense. As a Canadian I'm not sure if the country really benefits from it, although I guess it boosts the Canadian offices.

gclaramunt• 12 years ago

I can imagine social security and taxes collected can benefit

ryanweal• 12 years ago

I think the Google location is Windsor, but I know they have an office in Montréal and probably Toronto as well.

theycallmemorty• 12 years ago

I haven't heard about a Google office in Windsor but I know there is one in Waterloo.

jbarham4• 12 years ago

I'm Canadian and worked for over four years a software engineer in SoCal on work visas (TN then H1B).

My wife, an Aussie and high school teacher with several years of teaching experience in top international schools in Asia, couldn't legally work in the US. So she volunteered teaching ESL at a local adult school. Ironically many of her students were Hispanics who had originally entered the US illegally. Doubly ironically she got a special commendation award for her volunteering signed by George W. Bush's signing machine.

Eventually I got fed up with the bureaucratic farce whereby US visa regulations provide compliant, indentured foreign programmers to US businesses at below market salaries in exchange for the remote possibility that they'll eventually get a green card.

So I left and now live in Australia, where I am self-employed, can take time off to work on my own side-projects, and pay less than $300/month for private medical insurance for my family of four. American exceptionalism? Sure--if you're a sucker.

616c• 12 years ago

I am an American working and living abroad. I am very interested in your comment about being self-employed in Australia. Can write up about how to start a business there and the pros/cons?

I would love to read something like that.

jbarham4• 12 years ago

Keep in mind that thanks to my Aussie wife I have permanent residency.

In terms of "starting a business" I just had to register for an ABN ("Australian Business Number"). That may not even be a legal requirement but IIRC it had tax advantages. It's a couple years since I did it but as I recall I did it all online in a couple of hours and it didn't cost much. I then just include that number on my invoice. Very civilized.

At some point I need to register to charge GST but I'm sure I can do that online too. At no point have I had to visit a government office or get a bureaucrat to sign anything to start a business in Australia.

nodemaker3• 12 years ago

Similar story here. Indian citizen with a US masters degree. Left after working in the US for a year, travelled around SE Asia ,and then moved to Amsterdam! Can choose to work four days a week, have side projects and take 26 days of vacation a year.

H1B is totally a sucker's game.

kartikkumar5• 12 years ago

That's cool! I was born in India but was brought up near The Hague. Any chance you might be able to share where you're working at the moment? Interested in know what opportunities there are in and around Amsterdam and Rotterdam. If you'd rather not post publicly, feel free to shoot me an email: me@kartikkumar.com. Thanks!

ashray• 12 years ago

How did you move to Amsterdam ? Is it like fulltime work or did you sponsor yourself with an EU Blue Card ? I'm always interested in learning about the various possibilities engineers have around the world! :)

MRSallee• 12 years ago

You both mentioned being able to do side projects. Do US visas prohibit that?

ma2rten3• 12 years ago

I did the opposite: Studied for Masters degree in Amsterdam. Worked for Dutch company. Left. Travelled around SE Asia. Moved to Los Angeles to work for start up.

I think if I wanted to I could easily work for 4 days; much easier than in Holland, but that was bigger company. Also, there is no limit on the vacation I can take.

cbaleanu2• 12 years ago

Also, virtually anyone in Amsterdam or the rest of The Netherlands for that matter speaks English. Weather sucks though :)

potbelly83• 12 years ago

Your wife didn't do much research. As an Australian she would have been eligible for an E-3 Visa.

http://www.us-immigration.com/us-immigration-news/us-visas/u...

jbarham4• 12 years ago

I had the job in the US, my wife didn't. Even if she did have her own E-3 visa that could have been jeopardized by my including her on my green card application on my H1B visa.

EDIT: The principal at the school where my wife was volunteering actually wanted to hire her as she was better qualified than some of the paid instructors she was helping. But at some level higher up the chain they had a policy of not sponsoring work visas, so that went nowhere.

huherto3• 12 years ago

Your situation is special because you were married to an Australian. How would it be if she was a US citizen? It would probably be easier for you to legally work in the US than in Australia.

syntern• 12 years ago

Married to a US citizen seems to be more an exception than the rule, as most H1B folks I know (incl. myself) move with their wife.

cjf4• 12 years ago

Nothing you mentioned had any relevance to the idea of "American Exceptionalism."

tarunkotia3• 12 years ago

This is my 10th year anniversary in this country and you guessed it right, I am still on H-1B visa. Although my employer has filed for the green card, it is still a couple years away. I can decide to wait for my Green Card or I can start today. I decided the latter.

Having said that, I've started on this path just recently and believe me I am facing difficulties at every step, even the the ones I thought would be the most obvious. But again who said life was easy.

In case you are interested there are ways you can do business in the US on H-1B visa. Is it easy? Hell no! But in case you are still interested keep reading, feel free to reach out to me as I am going through this process right now.

Articles about Entrepreneur H1B:

- http://www.murthy.com/2012/12/17/entrepreneur-h1b-petitions-...

- http://www.uscis.gov/news/public-releases-topic/business-imm...

-http://blog.uscis.gov/2011/08/encouraging-entrepreneurs-and-...

- http://www.uscis.gov/eir/visa-guide/entrepreneur-visa-guide

Further reading:

- http://blog.fosterquan.com/2012/12/09/the-sweet-smell-of-suc...

Success story of Vishal Shah from Traffio:

- http://www.nextbigwhat.com/how-to-startup-in-silicon-valley-...

Business Entity:

- http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x12qxuo_how-to-open-a-busin...

eshvk2• 12 years ago

A point to note is that only those who were born in India/China have to deal with this long lead time. If you weren't born in any of these countries that have high immigration rates into America, you should have < 3-4 years path to a Green Card.

tinbad• 12 years ago

Can't relate to your story. Moved my startup in early 2012 to the US on an L1 visa. Applied for Green card mid-2012 and got accepted in early 2013. From nothing to Green card in a year. Yes, you have to deal with some bureaucracy and get a good lawyer, but if you're intentions are good it's very possible.

From your sarcasm I read that you never really wanted to build a life in the US? That's fine, but don't start calling names just because you couldn't pull it off.

rglullis2• 12 years ago

H1B and L1 are very different stories. If you manage to get a L1, things are much much easier. Not easy, though. Consider yourself privileged.

rglullis2• 12 years ago

Since we're sharing stories: come from Brazil to the US, it took me 2 months in 2008 (the height of the crisis) to get an interview in a place where they could actually sponsor H1B visas. Got job offer. The whole process to be able to start working took another 3 months. So I had to sit on my ass for 5 months doing nothing but wait for the USCIS.

I was working at a research lab that was part of Harvard Medical, therefore they could hire outside of the quota. But the "let's work on a/my startup" bug would bite my again, so I quit my job, moved to NYC and started checking with companies there. Uh oh, can't transfer my visa. Also, forget about unemployment checks, even though I paid for Social Security like everyone else.

Move to Berlin. Job offer in 2 weeks, paperwork finalized in 3 weeks. EU card valid for 5 years. If for some reason I leave this job for another one, all I need to do is notify the Ausländeramt. And anyone is eligible for unemployment insurance after 12 months of work/tax collection.

why-el• 12 years ago

Similar story with Germany. I got the offer, applied for a visa in my home country on Friday, they called me with good news on Monday, and collected it on Thursday since Tuesday and Wednesday were off for new year's.

By the way I worked in Brazil for 7 months and the visa was just as quick. Lovely country. ;)

cbr• 12 years ago

    I quit my job ... forget about unemployment checks, even
    though I paid for Social Security like everyone else

If you quit a job in the US you're not generally eligible for unemployment.

https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/unemployment-benefit...

dragonwriter• 12 years ago

so I quit my job [...] Also, forget about unemployment checks, even though I paid for Social Security like everyone else.

Social Security is a completely separate system from unemployment; the only conceptual area of overlap relates to disability.

Unemployment is a different system of social insurance which you probably also paid into -- but its insurance against involuntary, no fault unemployment. Both voluntary termination (quitting) and termination for cause generally are outside of the coverage of unemployment insurance.

Dobbs• 12 years ago

As an Australian she should have been eligible for an E-3 visa. Basically we gave Australia easy visas in exchange for a trade agreement.

jacalata2• 12 years ago

Not sure if she'd get that as a teacher? Its the same work requirements as a H1b, just for Australians.

bduerst2• 12 years ago

Mind if I ask how you were getting paid a below market salary?

Part of the H1B approval process is that you get paid more than the average salary for the same job in your area. If your salary is below the regional average for your job, then immigration doesn't approve the visa.

eshvk2• 12 years ago

Yeah, I too would like to know the answer to this question. I know quite a few people who are on the H1B in the Bay Area, there is nothing to suggest that those people get paid less than their counterparts on Green Cards/Citizens. I was briefly on the H1B for less than six months; the only thing I can imagine depresses wages is the fact that it is not easy to jump jobs. However, I can't imagine that creates that much of a wage differential.

fitzpasd• 12 years ago

Great guide, I'd love a similar one for Green Cards.

For instance, does a Masters in CS qualify you for an EB-2 filing? A search shows that the employer would have to give evidence of the advanced degree being necessary for the job. Usually you wouldn't need a Masters degree for a programmer role but I'm wondering how strict this is in practice.

Concretely, if you were to enter the US on a H1-B for a SDE role with BigCorpA and had a Masters degree in CS, could you immediately file for a Green Card under EB-2 category?

spiralpolitik4• 12 years ago

Assuming that everybody else performing that role at the company has a Master's degree (or equivalent) there is nothing stopping filing the labor certification on day one.

As with anything immigration related. Consult a lawyer, not the internet.

raverbashing3• 12 years ago

It's not worth it

You can get a "similar to H1B" visa in Ireland in 2 months time and a lot less paperwork. Germany (and other countries I believe) has a similar schema.

With some requirements slightly higher than an H1-B you can be a permanent resident of Canada (maybe Australia and England as well, though I'm not sure how the conditions are on the latter today)

So, why bother?

untog2• 12 years ago

So, why bother?

Better pay and opportunities, it's as simple as that. Having lived in the UK and Canada, I can say that the tech (and particularly startup) industry in the US is simply much bigger and more advanced than other places I've been.

raverbashing3• 12 years ago

Yes I suppose one can make 100k in the valley. And pay how much again for rent?

The pay and the opportunities are better, but they may not be significantly better to justify it.

In the valley it looks like everything will get an angel round if it stands still long enough or go to enough CV meetings but it is not all there is to life or a career.

rjzzleep2• 12 years ago

i'm surprised no one is mentioning the eb-2 visa. if you have a masters or higher in cs and are not born in the india or china the wait times seem to be reasonable. [1]

the h1b is a dangerous game. it's essentially a do whatever i say, and i "may" sponsor your green card "eventually", with an emphasize on the may. not everyone uses it that way, and i would would be leaning out of the window saying most do, but it's definitely enough to be a common issue.

i was brought into a university with an h1b under the premise that i could work on my own startup. what didn't tell me was that that what they meant was that i should work for them for 5 years before they would consider sponsoring a green card application, and that they expected me to work unpaid overtime whenever they asked me to.

i've heard from a friend running a consulting company in the area, that a lot of companies bring in workers with h1b's and then don't even have the decency to sponsor a green card after keeping them for 6 years.

to my remembrance there was a house voting sometime last september about an immigration reform. one side of the table was asking for better accessibility to visa's for specialized workers(including cali afair), and the other was asking for more audits.

sadly i can't tell you how much good came out of it, maybe someone else can elaborate on that.

edit: there is a reference at the end of the ops post, but it's not really prominent. eb-3 wait times can be years, which is why it's not really a reasonable choice, but eb-2 is different

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EB-2_visa

huherto3• 12 years ago

I have a MS from a good US university. I am one of the principal software engineers at my company, and I lead the technical development on some of the most critical systems. It is medium size company.

But, I don't do any state of the art research, or highly specialized academic work, or anything worth publishing on academic journals.

How hard is to do the Labor Certification for the EB-2 green card?

Edit:grammar

rjzzleep2• 12 years ago

IANAL, but I think in theory you already qualify. The effort is a little on the employers side. They have to post the job offer publicly in a news paper in the area, and then they have to have a good reason for hiring you. In theory I would say it's just a question of having a good lawyer. But then again those things have to be done ANYWAY if you want a green card.

spiralpolitik4• 12 years ago

It depends. Do other people doing a similar role in the company also have similar qualifications to meet the EB2 criteria?

Generally doing the labor certification isn't hard, just time consuming and a lot of paperwork. 1-2 years is not uncommon even with the new PERM system. After that it depends what country you come from.

The main gotcha is you cannot use your experience of doing the position on your H-1B towards your labor certification application if you are currently employed in the position so you'll have go on your previous experience.

As ever consult a lawyer. This goes double for immigration related stuff.

mahyarm3• 12 years ago

As part of the employment contract, can't you stipulate that they must immediately start the green card application process for you?

justadude• 12 years ago

With reference to the Green Card Lottery [1] "if you lose in the lottery, they'll refund the fees", there are no fees to enter the lottery, however if you win the lottery there are fees to start the interview and visa process.

[1] https://www.dvlottery.state.gov/

k3oni2• 12 years ago

Indeed it's free to enter, just make sure you qualify in the case you win. The required qualifications are minimal but worth reading into it so you don't pay any money and not get the visas.

We went through it and it took about half a year for everything to be ready.

Lucky wife :)

jongold• 12 years ago

Excellent guide; shame the situation sucks.

The H-4 & O-3 mean that I have these options: - Work at a US startup, marry my girlfriend, she has to be a non-working housewife - Work at a US startup, live the rest of our lives in a long distance relationship - Move to work at a big company like Google (not my scene at all) where I could get an L-1 (which has a good spouse visa) - Go for an O-1 or H-1B & hope that my girlfriend can get one in the same batch. - Just give up on the idea of living in the US

I love California; wish it wasn't so hard for me to live there :(

jplmelanson• 12 years ago

  The important difference is that the TN isn't dual intent, and you therefore can't apply for a green card while on it

Is there a path to permanent residency for this specific visa or you're better off finding H1B sponsorship?

cdhdc• 12 years ago

The information given regarding TN status isn't entirely accurate. I transitioned from a TN to a Greencard directly. There were several conditions that my immigration lawyer prepared me for so I wasn't violating dual-intent and there was a period of several months when I was unable to leave the US while I waited for my "Advance parole" travel documentation.

speeq2• 12 years ago

"L-1 visa for inter-company transfers

If you've worked for the company in a foreign subsidiary for at least one year in the preceding three years, you may be eligible for a L-1 visa. When the H-1B cap is reached, large companies like Google often look to L-1s instead, moving new employees to their Canadian offices for a year to make them eligible.

The foreign subsidiary must be related to its US counterpart in one of four ways: parent and subsidiary, branch and headquarters, sister companies owned by a mutual parent, or 'affiliates'.

It's a fairly straightforward visa to get if you qualify, and has the added bonus of being dual intent."

Would it be possible to open a US business remotely, then a foreign subsidiary in your country of residence - work for a year there and then be eligible for an inter-company L-1 transfer?

anextio• 12 years ago

USCIS is generally very wary about L-1 abuse. The US company would need a full staff and board of directors.

i.e. Both sides of the equation have to be real companies doing real things who have a legitimate need to occasionally bring employees across. Neither of the companies can exist solely to funnel workers into the US.

speeq2• 12 years ago

Well, let's say I own a successful business in the UK, want to expand to the US and expect significant growth within the first year - does a L-1 visa allow me to open a new office in the US, if I hire someone competent to take over UK operations?

k3oni2• 12 years ago

Here's another one which might help some that want to move to US - Diversity Visa Program(DV Lottery).

If you are lucky enough(like my wife was) you will have your green card and visa for the whole family.

Some more info: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diversity_Immigrant_Visa

donohoe• 12 years ago

Credit History

It would be worth adding a note about Credit history and some simple steps you can do to start establishing a good one. I recall getting a joint-loan with my wife (girlfriend at the time) to get things started. I'm sure there are many other ways.

ojbyrne2• 12 years ago

Secured (not pre-paid) credit cards worked for me.

foobarqux2• 12 years ago

Do you know of a no-fee secured credit card that is easy for a foreigners apply for online?

venomsnake• 12 years ago

What is the situation if you are cofounder of startup? So you own some part of US company.

TheCoelacanth• 12 years ago

With an investment of at least $100,000, you could get an E2 visa, but that doesn't come with the possibility of getting a green card. If you have $500,000 to $1 million to invest in a business that will create at least 10 jobs, you can get an EB-5 visa that would put you on track to get a green card.

jorde2• 12 years ago

Both H1b and O1 work in this case with the limitation that in H1b you can't own majority share of the company, i.e. someone needs to be able to kick you out. I'm not aware of all the details but you should consult an immigration lawyer about this.

mdda3• 12 years ago

I'm surprised no-one mentioned the E-2 (Treaty Investor) visa. It allows someone from a Treaty country (which includes a lot of developed countries) to start a business in the USA. It's not an intent visa, though (more on that later).

I'm from the UK, and did the E-2 application myself (having found that it took as much time to explain to a lawyer as to write the application). My initial investment was $100k (enough to start a software business, provably). I have been renewing that visa since 1999, while living in NYC.

Now, however (partly to do with having a 3-year-old), I've moved with my family to Singapore. Visa process took 3 days, and is valid for 12months (and a 12month extension will be very doable, apparently).

One aspect of the Green Card process (which is, I believe, somewhat achievable even starting on a E-2, is that you get caught in the US tax regime semi-permanently. Which is taxation on world-wide income. That would make moving to another country relatively painful (and that's partly why there are so few Americans in Singapore : there's no tax advantage to them).

Happy to answer any questions.

cookrn2• 12 years ago

I mentioned this treaty in another comment, but are the advantages of the E-2 similar in nature for non-Americans to the those afforded to Americans by the DAFT[1]? Is the E-2 only applicable for citizens of countries that have a specific treaty in place?

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DAFT_(treaty)

mdda3• 12 years ago

The Treaty country list for the USA : [1]

The US E-2 is similar to the (into Netherlands) DAFT, except for the fact that the US doesn't allow for the 'sole entrepreneur' option : You need to fund a business with the plan to employ Americans.

[1] http://travel.state.gov/content/visas/english/fees/treaty.ht...

thelonelygod• 12 years ago

My parents moved my entire family here on a h1 when I was younger. We obtained our Green Cards about 5 years ago.

I'm about to graduated college and go start working in NYC. My parents are currently starting the process to get citizenship and I'm choosing not to do it mainly because I'm not sure if I want to stay in the country for the rest of my life and didn't want to be stuck in the US tax abroad issue.

You mentioned that getting a green card does in fact put you into the US tax regime semi-permanently. Do you have any links or more information about that?

mahyarm3• 12 years ago

People with green cards or citizenship are subject to the same unique worldwide citizenship-based taxation scheme that the US has. You will have to revoke your green card anyway to escape it so I would just get the citizenship since you can renounce it later with a somewhat more involved process. You can be subject to an exit tax if your 'rich enough' when you revoke your green card or citizenship. Something like $150k annual income for 5+ years or $2+ million in assets. Research it yourself, etc.

ricardonunez2• 12 years ago

How the E-2 renewal process work? I have a friend considering E-2 with $50k to $100k, and his concern is how bad the renewal process is.

mdda3• 12 years ago

It's not worse than the initial application.

One crazy thing is : They force you to renew at the Embassy in your home country, in person. So, once your application is in, they give you a date to turn up. But they won't give you any time-line about when they'll send your passport back (with the visa). So you can't really book a cheap return flight. i.e. in order to be the person in charge of a new business in the States, they require you to periodically leave the States for an indeterminate time, and sit in your home country (which is potentially just dead time business-wise).

OTOH, I have found that (i) having prepared the paperwork myself, (ii) actually being an entrepreneur, and (iii) having actual real-life experience of running the business to relate : The embassy person is actually interested in hearing about how things are going, and willing to 'relax a little'. I'm guessing that many people turn up with lawyerly papers, which don't really match the lines they are taught to say, and have marginal-to-misleading reasons for wanting the visa. So an actual real deal entrepreneur is a breath of fresh air.

My initial visa was 2yrs, followed by a 2yr renewal, the 2x 5yrs. So it gets easier. But was always really tiresome.

tmich• 12 years ago

This thread seems like an excellent opportunity to ask for some advice.

I'm a British software engineer based in London, while my girlfriend of 3 and a half years is an American working for a publishing company in NYC. We've been trying to work out whether we think the relationship will work out in the long term, but the only time we've ever been in the same city for more than 3 weeks was the 6 month stint we were at university together. She's very reluctant to move to London - apparently publishing jobs are hard to come by, and she's loathe to leave the current one. As a result, I've been tasked with finding a way that I can spend some time in New York. It wouldn't have to be long - 6 months would be plenty - but I would have to be able to earn money since she currently doesn't really make enough to support herself, let alone me.

Does anyone have any suggestions as to how I could go about doing this?

janantala• 12 years ago

marry her

artmageddon2• 12 years ago

Can someone further explain the dual-intent portion of this? I'm a US citizen and my girlfriend, who is from Iran, is working toward her PhD in CS here in the States. Currently, she's on a F-1 visa(the site says it's not dual-intent), and would like to remain in the states after she completes her studies to work at a US company(most likely in the valley). This caught my eye as a point of concern, so if anyone can elaborate it'd be greatly appreciated:

"If you're not on a dual intent visa then you may be asked to prove that you have significant ties to your home country, and no intent to reside in the US permanently or apply for a green card."

It's worth mentioning we will probably marry before she completes her PhD.

milemi3• 12 years ago

Even if you don't marry, after graduation she can get one year of so called Optional Practical Training, during which she can apply for a dual-intent visa. This is the path I had personally taken. If you do get married, I am almost 100% sure her having been on an F1 visa is no obstacle for her green card application.

artmageddon2• 12 years ago

Ok - how difficult was it to get on the Optional Practical Training? She'll be interning at a major company in the valley this summer(assuming the export control process doesn't pose an issue), and will most likely be doing so next summer as well. Basically, finding work shouldn't be an issue for her after graduation.

klipt2• 12 years ago

Not a lawyer, but I had the same visa and this is my understanding:

Once she has "demonstrated immigrant intent" (i.e. applied for a green card) she can remain in the US with no problem, but if she leaves and tries to re-enter on her F1 visa she can be denied entry. Because it is a strictly non-immigrant visa, if they think you intend to immigrate you can be turned back at the border.

However if she gets Advance Parole (which is part of the green card process) before leaving the US she can use that to re-enter if necessary.

She should talk to her school's international office and if necessary a lawyer if she has any questions.

falsestprophet2• 12 years ago

This is a guide to US visa fraud.

Software developers are expressly excluded from the TN visa program. If you show up at the Canadian border as an American or the American border as a Canadian and announce you intend to work as a software developer, you will not be admitted. Of course many commit fraud and represent themselves as "Computer Systems Analysts" or "Management Consultants."

L1B visas are meant for those who possess special knowledge of "the petitioning organization’s product, service, research, equipment, techniques, management, or other interests and its application in international markets, or an advanced level of knowledge or expertise in the organization’s processes and procedures." If you announce you intend to work as a software developer you will not be admitted.

canistr2• 12 years ago

It's a game of semantics for border services. If you have an engineering degree, it doesn't matter. If you get your employer to change your title from "Developer" to "Engineer" it works out.

falsestprophet2• 12 years ago

It isn't a game of semantics.

“Engineers may not fill computer-related jobs under TN classification unless they have credentials as computer or software engineers from institutions that recognize computer or software engineering as bona fide engineering specialties offering full engineering credentials, such as professional engineering licenses.”

http://www.tnvisabulletin.com/nafta-tn-blog/2010/6/21/degree...

rabble2• 12 years ago

It's missing the H1B1 visa which is very easy to get but isn't dual intent. It's only available for citizens of Singapore and Chile. It requires little paperwork and takes about a week to get. If you're so lucky as having a Singaporean or Chilean passport i recommend you look in to it.

coin• 12 years ago

"Getting a bank account is fairly straightforward, and most don't require a SSN." I don't know about this. It's pretty much impossible to open a bank account without a SSN or TIN.

x5315• 12 years ago

I got my bank account with just my passport.

songgao• 12 years ago

I got my bank account before getting my SSN. They ask for passport and maybe some other documents (e.g. I-20 for F-1 Visas) but certainly getting a bank account without SSN is possible.

spiralpolitik4• 12 years ago

You can open the account without an SSN. However most banks will generally require you to provide a valid SSN or TN with a certain period of time otherwise they will close the account.

Generally if you are in the US legally you will have one of those numbers.

ma2rten3• 12 years ago

TN Visa
Processing time: Weeks

Actually for Canadians the visa is usually given at the border at time of entry. I applied at the US embassy in Bangkok and it didn't take more than a couple of days.

foobarqux2• 12 years ago

This article is geared mostly to employees. Since this is HN, what do foreigners launching startups do?

CodeMage• 12 years ago

The article missed pointing out a very important detail about H-1B1 visa (for Chile and Singapore): unlike the dual intent H-1B visa, the H-1B1 is a non-immigrant visa. This means that you must establish the non-immigrant intent to get it. It also means that, should you happen to change your mind after some time, you would have to switch to H-1B visa before trying for the green card.

Also, speaking from the personal experience, the fact that the H-4 visa doesn't allow your spouse to work deserves more emphasis. If there's anything that might drive me and my family back to Chile, it's the H-4 visa.

NVI• 12 years ago

L-1B (Intracompany Transferee Specialized Knowledge)

"Specialized knowledge means either special knowledge possessed by an individual of the petitioning organization’s product, service, research, equipment, techniques, management, or other interests and its application in international markets, or an advanced level of knowledge or expertise in the organization’s processes and procedures (See 8 CFR 214.2(l)(1)(ii)(D))."

http://www.uscis.gov/working-united-states/temporary-workers...

The definition of "Specialized knowledge" is very broad. Can somebody share their experience of getting L-1B visa?

curiousDog• 12 years ago

You should also mention EB-5. Pay $500k and get a green-card. No questions asked. Although, you may or may not get back that $500k (considered an at-risk investment) :).

Engineer's Guide to US Visas

Related Stories