Research shows how MacBook Webcams can spy on their users without warning

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-switch/wp/2013/12/18/research-shows-how-macbook-webcams-can-spy-on-their-users-without-warning/

by clint • 13 years ago

301 234 13 years ago

washingtonpost.com

mathhead2• 13 years ago

Nice.

I own a Logitech C920 Pro and a software called webcam settings allows me to easily turn off the lights. If this software can do this, so can a malware.

Also, a malware can be designed to click quick snaps when there is no keyword or mouse activity for a specific period. This can help the malware go unnoticed without controlling the light. Want to take it to the next level? You can use the mic anytime to estimate the user's distance from the system and then enable webcam accordingly. I know this would not be very accurate, but possible.

toomuchtodo• 13 years ago

You could use the hard drive accelerometer to feel for vibrations to guess proximity. Just like a snake.

jrochkind13• 13 years ago

This story is not about a Logitech camera.

It is about the Macbook iSight. There is definitely no (official, known) software that allows you to turn off the privacy light. The Apple engineers intended it to be impossible to disable, and believed it was.

mathhead2• 13 years ago

Yes, I do understand the story is about Macbook iSight. Was just sharing what happens with another vendor as this is relevant and related.

vezzy-fnord• 13 years ago

I've always sealed the webcam opening with a strip of black tape on my laptop, personally.

justin• 13 years ago

I would be more concerned about the microphone. I can easily cover the camera with tape. Also, random pictures of me programming or reading HN are probably less damaging audio recordings of conversations I might be having.

hrktb2• 13 years ago

Same here. Even nude photos would be embarrassing, but audio recordings could have effects far worse than some prude shame.

Especially since there is no LED to signal the microphone is active, it doesn't need to point anywhere. If it could be activated while the laptop is closed (force wake up a part of the OS for just a few minutes here and there for instance) it would be a really tough problem.

dunham• 13 years ago

Maybe unload/delete the kernel module? (This is how I used to silence the pcspkr beep on Linux.)

greglindahl2• 13 years ago

I use a cut-out piece of postit note for the camera, and a small piece of etape for the microphones -- seems stable, and both are pretty easy to take off without leaving too much spooge behind.

superuser25• 13 years ago

Does tape actually provide enough impedance to prevent surveillance through your microphones? Seems like all an attacker would have to do is amplify (and possibly filter) the audio a bit.

cinquemb2• 13 years ago

What about internal microphones on MB's?

osascript -e 'set volume input volume 0' doesn't really produce the expected result…

WalterBright• 13 years ago

I put a piece of paper over the camera, then tape over that. That doesn't leave glue on the lens.

StringyBob2• 13 years ago

My current Thinkpad has a physical switch to disable radios. I'd like to have a physical 'privacy' switch that cut the power to internal microphones and cameras. To be security aware, this has to be an auditable hardware power switch, and not just an interrupt/driver/bios combination that could be bypassed. It's also prefereable for security to have a an off-by-default switch, than an activity light you might not notice...

smsm42• 13 years ago

Great idea. Must be a physical switch that just cuts all physical links between the camera/microphone and the rest of the system, so that no reprogramming is possible. Unfortunately, little chance to see it in Apple products, as such switch would probably not look "slick" and would probably be considered "confusing for the user" and as such not suitable for implementing.

fzltrp• 13 years ago

That's unfortunately the exception rather than the norm. I have seen laptops with switches for WiFi, and camera obturators, but manufacturers hardly think about these things. It's obviously not an Apple problem only, but it certainly hinders usability to have physical switches. Yet, I really wished they'd make that standard for all media peripheral (and not just on PC, but any device coming with these features). That would however be easily considered as an admission of failure to provide a secure software environment to their customers, and they might not like that aspect of it.

csmuk• 13 years ago

My current ThinkPad (T400) has the Mic, fingerprint scanner and webcam disabled physically. They're easy to get into and unplug.

Agree entirely though.

I'd rather like a physical off switch as well like the original IBM PC (the big red lever)

notinsudoers• 13 years ago

My Dell has a wireless switch also, but it doesn't work under Linux, only Windows. In Linux, the radio remains on no matter what the position of the switch is. Meaning its's really a software switch, and hence worthless for security.

userbinator8• 13 years ago

Sorry to burst your bubble but actually that "physical switch to disable radios" is, if I remember correctly, just another signal to the wireless card (which runs its own firmware as well). It's not a true power kill.

philip1209• 13 years ago

Some hardening guides suggest having the camera and microphone removed by an apple tech. I'm considering having this done on my next laptop - I just don't use them that often.

bigiain2• 13 years ago

That's one big advantage of my old FireWire iSight camera – if the FireWire cable isn't plugged in, you _know_ it's not taking pictures.

(And now I half expect to read a new Snowden paper tomorrow detailing how the NSA coerced Apple into fitting batteries and flash storage into webcams so they could be instructed to covertly record video while not plugged in and upload it automatically later…)

11001• 13 years ago

Not to mention microphone can work as a key logger http://rakesh.agrawal-family.com/papers/ssp04kba.pdf

rcthompson2• 13 years ago

Also note that a speaker can be used as microphones as well. (In physics terms they are the same device, which can convert sound to electricity or vice versa.) With modern sound cards having reprogrammable inputs and outputs, I wouldn't be surprised if even a laptop with no microphone installed could record audio.

(My friend once had to record herself for a foreign language homework, but her microphone broke. I instructed her to plug her headphones into the microphone jack and ust them instead. It worked, but she had to talk loudly to make them work.)

XorNot• 13 years ago

The RSA acoustic key recovery hack is particularly terrifying in this instance. Turning on the microphone on the computer can furnish an attacker with everything they need to recover encryption keys stored on the computer.

auctiontheory2• 13 years ago

I always cover the camera with a Post It sticky. But the mic might be listening in on me.

Embrace Big Brother, folks, 'cos he's here.

samolang• 13 years ago

It would be nice if there was a physical switch to disable the webcam and microphone.

auctiontheory2• 13 years ago

One of my friends always keeps her MacBook open, and had Skype set up to auto-answer video calls. (Until I fixed that for her.) She's a very educated professional woman who teaches at a university you've heard of.

In other words, HN readers might come up with defensive hacks, but 99% of the population is completely vulnerable to all kinds of spying, whether government or stalker, and the situation can only get worse as wireless electronics pervade every part of our lives. Books? Internet-enabled. Fridge? Internet-enabled. Car? Internet-enabled. Our own bodies? Carry wireless-connected smartphone 24x7.

Zikes2• 13 years ago

One could argue that devising an effective privacy strategy to build into new device categories would be a waste of time until the devices are sufficiently popular enough to warrant the effort.

Now that we've reached that tipping point there should be sufficient interest from an adequate number of skilled and educated people to begin to work on solving this problem.

bithive123• 13 years ago

Display-mounted cameras should have a sliding lens cap built in which can close (but not open) itself after a configurable period of non-use.

x00542• 13 years ago

Honestly, I don’t understand why it’s so difficult to create a camera chip not susceptible to any software hack. The camera sensor needs electrical current to work. Simply place the LED inline or in parallel to the camera and you are done. Any time current is sent to the camera sensor, the LED cant help it but light up. My knowledge of electronics is limited, but I know for a fact that this can be achieved without the use of any reprogrammable microchips, with the use of a simple electrical circuit.

RBerenguel• 13 years ago

IIRC, in my old Macbook (early 2008) the led is actually inlined. Some machines had a weird hardware bug that shorted this area and sometimes the led would go on... and the camera would be useless until next reboot (mine was one of these, didn't realise until ~after 6 months of owning it

DanBC3• 13 years ago

Now all you have to do is warn users that the one LED is important and means something. Not like all the other LEDs that are on all the time and are mostly pointless.

http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2010/10/webcam-spy-settleme...

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2386599,00.asp

When the school district investigated the case, it found other incidents of webcam spying, and notified the students involved, including Levin. According to the lawsuit, filed in Eastern Pennsylvania District Court, Levin's younger brother commented on a light near the webcam that appeared to go on and off at odd times. His mother "dismissed the idea as absurd," but it appears he was right.

Crito4• 13 years ago

"Now all you have to do is warn users that the one LED is important and means something. Not like all the other LEDs that are on all the time and are mostly pointless."

No longer plastering devices with semi-pointless LEDs would help. Harddrive activity? Wifi? Bluetooth? I don't think all these lights are really necessary. Throw one on the power cable maybe, and a few to backlight the keyboard, but otherwise only use them as indicator lights for things that are actually important to the standard user.

arrrg2• 13 years ago

Well, on MacBooks it’s the only LED. Ok, that’s slightly misleading, there is another one on the charging cable (indicating whether the device is connected to power and whether or not it is charging).

This to me seems more like an application of Occam’s razor. Hardware or Software malfunctioning seems much more likely than someone spying on you.

schnevets• 13 years ago

Malware that spontaneously lights the LED without activating the camera so the user becomes accustomed to a false indicator. Or have the LED turn anytime the machine is left idle (but still on) in order to burn out the LED.

Lagged2Death2• 13 years ago

Now all you have to do is warn users that the one LED is important and means something.

There is already a common pop-culture shorthand for "now recording," the blinking red light. That's cheap and simple, and everyone already knows what it means, particularly when it's on a camera.

The real question, in my mind, is how the world-renowned user-experience and user-interface experts at Apple decided to use anything else.

wmeredith• 13 years ago

It's such an obvious solution that I really thought that WAS the case until just now. Why in the world would you tackle this problem any other way?

FireBeyond• 13 years ago

Well, Apple and supporters (obligatory disclaimer: I own, and love, my rMBP, iPhone 5, and have two iPads in my house) have claimed that it was the case, and that it was physically impossible not to.

Then again, Apple’s marketing for the iPhone 5s made many claims of “subdermal fields”, “RF micro fields produced by the human body”, and how, as a result, it couldn’t be faked.

Except it could. Fairly easily. And without any remote pretense around the ‘emulate a live finger’. Just the fingerprint.

Much as I like Apple, these are pretty bold-faced deceptions.

cseelus• 13 years ago

Exactly my thoughts. Hope anyone with more clue can explain this.

Guvante• 13 years ago

They basically did, the light can only be turned off when the USB signals "standby".

The hack is to override the camera to ignore that signal. It is a rather unique idea and probably not something anyone even considered at Apple.

milhous• 13 years ago

I thought the same as well. An LED in series with the circuit powering the CMOS sensor is all that would be needed. No amount of reprogramming is going to bypass a physical circuit.

This is disappointing, and I expect Apple will redesign the cameras because of it.

StringyBob2• 13 years ago

The LED is wired up directly to light up in the opposite state of the standby signal (i.e. off control) to the camera module. However, the camera module has a programmable setting to ignore its standby pin, and the microcontroller can be programmed to do whatever it wants with the (now ignored) standby pin.

The fact the camera controller could be reprogrammed from user space and then used to emulate a keyboard or mouse and bypass security / a virtual machine particularly devious, and shows how hard it is to trust even known hardware.

sudomal• 13 years ago

This is disappointing, and I expect Apple will redesign the cameras because of it.

The article mentions that authorities have tools to bypass the LED. I would guess that the complexity is on purpose and wasn't supposed to be used by the general public. I bet the same is true for sound.

proee• 13 years ago

One of the best ways is to have a dedicated "Chip Enable" pin on the camera module. You then connect an LED to the state of this pin and when the Chip Enable pin is "Hight" the LED is turned on. However, there needs to be additional circuitry (an extra pin) and some work to ensure proper voltage levels are met for both the pin and the LED (extra cost).

Another option is to enable the LED when power is turned onto the module.

esmi2• 13 years ago

Look at figure 2 in the attached research paper. You'll find this is exactly how this model of iSight camera works.

This interlock failed because the Micron sensor Apple used had software straps that could be reconfigured to have the sensor ignore its enable pin.

Theodores• 13 years ago

Having an inline LED is still a bit over-engineered in my opinion.

The earliest standalone webcams, for instance Logitech models and the IndyCam that came with the Silicon Graphics 'Indy' workstation, had a 'door' that you could slide over the lens when not in use. Lenovo had this on their all in one PC's a few years ago but I don't think they kept that feature.

What was wrong with the slide-across lens cover?

You would think it would be an essential feature for some.

coldtea• 13 years ago

What was wrong with the slide-across lens cover?

The fact that you can forget it open, duh!

taf2• 13 years ago

more parts, more cost, more to break, more dissatisfied customers, more customer service calls, more returns...

justin663• 13 years ago

Having an inline LED is still a bit over-engineered in my opinion.

Overengineering usually refers to something that's not simple or elegant or a solution which represents more effort than the problem calls for. None of those factors seem to apply here.

oneeyedpigeon4• 13 years ago

Macbooks already have this: it's called the keyboard and it "slides over the lens" when you close the laptop when it's not in use. Much easier to do automatically than remember to slide a 'door' across. Or do people really leave their laptops open when not in use?

winstonx5• 13 years ago

I bought this exact webcam cover; it works great. http://www.amazon.com/C-Slide-1-0-Webcam-Cover/dp/B00AZ639VG

vacri• 13 years ago

A sliding lens cover is an exposed moving part, more prone to breakage and filling up with gunk, and also makes it more likely to smear the webcam with finger oils.

NickSharp2• 13 years ago

Two words: Masking tape.

collyw3• 13 years ago

It would be too complicated for some users.

qbrass• 13 years ago

OLPC XO-1's were designed that way.

Arelius2• 13 years ago

It's not difficult, but it makes the system unflexible, The vendors, not worried about the privacy implications, choose what makes the system more flexible.

I've heard that this was a serious flaw in Google's opinion, and they went through great efforts to ensure that the LED for the chromebook pixel was actually hard-wired into the camera's electronics. Which if true, shows that it's indeed possible.

Lagged2Death2• 13 years ago

It's not difficult, but it makes the system unflexible...

Um. That would be exactly the point of doing it, in this case. The camera indicator (and the microphone indicator that every laptop should but currently does not have) should be completely inflexible.

What "flexibility" is added by having an indicator that only sort-of indicates, anyway?

jrochkind13• 13 years ago

I am not an electrical engineer, I can't really judge the appropriateness or feasibility of various solutions.

But in the research paper cited by the Wash Post[1], there's a whole section where the authors discuss their recommendations, see under "VIII. SECURE CAMERA DESIGNS". Including some specific suggestions of how you would implement this design in hardware.

[1] https://jscholarship.library.jhu.edu/bitstream/handle/1774.2...

sneak3• 13 years ago

Simply place the LED inline or in parallel to the camera and you are done. Any time current is sent to the camera sensor, the LED cant help it but light up.

So, upon (my incorrectly) presuming this was how it's already done in hardware and reading the headline of the article before I got to the text, I assumed they were turning it on and taking a single frame and turning it off fast enough that the LED was only on for a short enough time for the user not to be able to see it (or not notice).

Turns out the article claims they just reprogrammed the microcontroller to not turn it on in the first place. Of course that's a bad design, but you do need some more logic in there - the light needs to stay on for a minimum time when the camera is functioning so that the user can notice it.

This, too, is simple enough that it can be achieved without a microcontroller, but please don't presume that it's a simple fix. It's not just "put it in parallel".

hnriot• 13 years ago

it is just as simple as put the LED in parallel, if you want it to stay on for a "little while" put a capacitor in circuit too. Extremely basic EE.

elwell• 13 years ago

A hammer used to smash the camera component has been effective with this issue.

NickSharp2• 13 years ago

No need for a hammer, I use tape.

borplk• 13 years ago

Story time .... a while ago I had a similar discussion with someone because I said I have a thick black tape on my Macbook's webcam and I rest easy knowing I cannot be spied on using that camera unless the laws of physics change.

Of course many people made fun of it and mentioned "blah blah you are paranoid the LED cannot be manipulated and will always turn on ...".

Well ... here you go. Where are you now?

I wouldn't be surprised if someone-cough-you-know-who-cough had influenced the design for this to become a possibility. We know they are actively looking for opportunities like this. Go ahead, call me a paranoid again ... and next month when the story about how they did just that hits hacker news, I'll have an even better story to tell.

jrochkind13• 13 years ago

So their proof of concept malware... actually changes the firmware in the camera micro-controller? Do I have that right?

Here's the research paper linked to in the story, if anyone wants to see what the researchers have to say. I haven't taken a look yet myself: https://jscholarship.library.jhu.edu/handle/1774.2/36569

Ah, there it is right in the abstract, yep:

The same technique that allows us to disable the LED, namely reprogramming the ﬁrmware that runs on the iSight, enables a virtual machine escape whereby malware running inside a virtual machine reprograms the camera to act as a USB Human Interface Device (HID) keyboard which executes code in the host operating system.

Ooh, neat.

Zikes2• 13 years ago

Seems that way. It wasn't too long ago there was a post about new breeds of malware that target various microcontrollers throughout a PC, able even to "hide out" in something like an optical drive to avoid detection or removal.

wil4214• 13 years ago

I really would hate to taint my MBP with ugly duct tap on the camera, but I may have to in the future.

Months ago I read about a company that rented laptops for people to make payments on and eventually own. They installed spy software so they could locate the laptops had the user not made a monthly payment. Employees were spying on users while they were having sex and other things. This wasnt on MBPs but they still managed to not notify the user.

http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2012/09/laptop-rental-spywa...

daeken• 13 years ago

I really would hate to taint my MBP with ugly duct tap on the camera, but I may have to in the future.

A tiny piece of black electrical tape blends in nicely and won't leave gunk on your bezel.

wil4214• 13 years ago

I will try that. If anything fishy happens the camera is getting an ice pick. Problem solved I have barely used it.

Don_• 13 years ago

All these tape/paper/etc advices to cover the webcam

Jesus Christ, guys. Do you use Linux?

Just blacklist the webcam module to preventing it from loading whenever the system boots. Want to use the webcam? Load the module manually.

# modprobe uvcvideo

Want to unload the camera again? Easy.

# modprobe -r uvcvideo

Generally, it's the uvcvideo module, but it might change from system to system.

A malicious code would need root access to your system to load/unload the webcam module. If someone has root access to your computer/to execute code in your computer, you're in MUCH, much deeper shit than if you let someone film you. Seriously. Specially if you use your computer for money transactions or talk about important stuff to people.

computer• 13 years ago

Here's a suitable webcam cover kit from the EFF: https://supporters.eff.org/shop/laptop-camera-cover-set

nodata• 13 years ago

On early Macbook webcams it was electrically impossible to turn on the webcam without activating the light next to it. I'll see if I can find a source.

Edit: the story refers to precisely these early Macbooks. Yikes.

lucaspiller• 13 years ago

Any ideas why they changed it? Surely the circuit would be simpler like this rather than having the LED hooked up to the microchip and software controlling it.

kyzyl2• 13 years ago

If you have the LED hooked up in parallel with the chip, then you can't really do any fancy indication things like blink the LED, change colour (voltage level) etc. It's possible that the engineers wanted to maintain that flexibility.

Second, if the LED fails to a short your camera won't get any power. That means an expensive component appears to be broken when it's only a very cheap component, and you have no way to knowing that w/o opening up and inspecting or replacing parts. In contrast, if an isolated LED fails, one can still verify that the camera works via software, and choose not to send it in for repair.

Also, LEDs have a very small leakage current even in their off state. If somebody is hyperoptimizing power consumption they might choose to put the LED on a high impedence controller output rather than feeding off a power rail or similar.

Finally, the desired led might work off a configurable controller output, but that might not be the same as the output driving the chip enable pin. So you could require extra circuitry to convert to a compatible voltage/current level.

That's my guess.

eurleif3• 13 years ago

And I thought I was clever for turning the light on for only a tiny split-second to take a picture... (I wasn't writing malware. I put the program on my own laptop before I sent it in to be serviced. http://ecritters.biz/applecarefacility/)

praptak• 13 years ago

It actually is clever. I like this "go around instead of breaking" approach very much. Two similar cases:

A car magazine claimed they discovered a serious weakness in a particular brand of a steering wheel lock. The company made a series of improvements to the lock and challenged the magazine to demo their hack. The magazine guy approached the new lock, gave it a good hard yank and it came off the steering wheel.

Another one was the Flash fullscreen mode. Flash used to (probably still does) display a hard-coded warning after the app went full screen - obviously to prevent Flash apps from impersonating browsers, OSes and so on. I've seen a demo that took advantage of the fact that the text was an overlay over what the app displayed.

The demo app just went full screen and printed lots of messages in the same font as the Flash warning, all over the screen. The overlay was still visible (Flash made it impossible to hide or cover) but it was basically impossible to read. The demo then pretended it did a Windows restart - it was pretty scary :-)

dec0dedab0de• 13 years ago

Do you have sources? They seem like interesting stories.

rcthompson2• 13 years ago

serious weakness in a particular brand of a steering wheel lock ... gave it a good hard yank and it came off the steering wheel

Serious weakness indeed. Not what people (especially HN readers) usually mean by that phrase!

bentcorner• 13 years ago

I do something similar, whenever my laptop is opened it takes a few pictures. The light is on only for a split second.

It's actually kind of amusing to see pictures of you and notice your hair growing over several weeks :)

Bakkot• 13 years ago

Split second as in actually significantly under a second? I've never been able to get mine to take a picture without lighting up for very nearly a full second.

DenisM• 13 years ago

Consider that the optical nerve is shut off when eyes move from one target to another. What human "sees" during that time is a retained image, so he is effectively blind. If you make something appear on screen away from his focal point it might distract user enough to be blinded while his focus moves across the screen, so the green dot won't be seen.

eurleif3• 13 years ago

It really was significantly under a second. This was a much older model of MBP, though. A comment elsewhere in this thread suggests that maybe Apple switched from simply wiring the LED in with the camera to using a microcontroller for this very reason -- so the light would stay on for a minimum amount of time.

boon• 13 years ago

Does anyone know of how to secure against this type of thing (other than tape)?

nexttimer3• 13 years ago

Buy hardware and software you, as the paying customer, remain allowed to control.

tedunangst• 13 years ago

? Are you suggesting the problem here is people aren't allowed to control 2008 era macbooks?

superuser25• 13 years ago

I'm assuming this is a dig at Apple. Care to show that any other laptop manufacturer's webcams are impervious to having their firmware overwritten?

Rylinks• 13 years ago

This doesn't help here. The computer's control of the light is the problem--it's what lets the malware turn it off.

superuser25• 13 years ago

NSA information assurance guidelines specify that one should cut the cables to all unnecessary IO devices before deploying hardware in a sensitive environment.

Not sure where that one is, but there is a wealth of data here: http://www.nsa.gov/ia/mitigation_guidance/index.shtml

It's safe to assume they left a few things out, but part of NSA's mission is to protect the communications of US interests (government and enterprise) so it actually is part of their mandate to give advice like this.

shabble2• 13 years ago

The obvious solution is of course a bit of tape, but that's less convenient when you do actually want to use the camera.

I notice that the EFF have some nifty little 'ultra-removable adhesive' stickers[1] that might do better, but what would be better is some sort of low-profile adhesive backed sliding cover.

...

It appears I spoke too soon, there are already plenty out there, with mixed reviews. The 'iPatch'[2] looks interesting.

[1] https://supporters.eff.org/shop/laptop-camera-cover-set

[2] http://www.virtualspaceindustries.com/theipatch/

a3n• 13 years ago

Why don't they just build a damned slider right into the laptop?

seiji• 13 years ago

Notes from the article: they demonstrate it on a black macbook from 2008. They don't have a "modern" version of their disable-webcam-LED exploit.

The victim they talked to mentioned "she never saw the light on her laptop go on" — that doesn't mean it didn't, it just means she could have just not been looking for it.

Ideally, your webcam LED will be wired with your webcam itself. For your webcam sensor to be powered up, the LED will be powered up as a physical requirement of sending power to the webcam sensor. Many lesser-engineered webcams have software controlled LEDs (kinect bar, generic egg-shaped webcams) that don't even take "hacks" or "malware" to disable LEDs—you just run "turn led off."

Ben-G• 13 years ago

Interesting to note: iPhone and iPad and a lot of Android devices don't have a camera indicator LED. While it is difficult to distribute iOS Apps outside the AppStore (where Apple would hopefully reject an App accessing camera information without informing the user) this totally could happen with Android Apps distributed outside of App Stores.

A while ago I wrote a component for the iPad that emulates the proximity sensor of the iPhone by measuring the brightness of images the the front camera captured. There was no way for the user to detect that I was actually capturing images.

SiVal2• 13 years ago

I want hardware on/off switches for camera, microphone, wifi, bluetooth, and maybe even external speakers. These should be power switches, not switches that make a polite request to firmware for the firmware to act as if the devices are off.

pasbesoin2• 13 years ago

Although I haven't looked into it in detail, yet, the T430 I have at the moment has a physical switch for WiFi and Bluetooth functionality.

I want the same for the built-in camera and mic. A little physical "red switch" that no amount of coding can defeat.

I agree with others, here. I'm worried at least as much about the microphone as I am about the camera. I can always physically block the camera -- and control what it is pointed at.

Further, I'm not comfortable with plugging in a microphone to "override" the built-in microphone. Physical design alone leaves me certain (although without proof) that this "override" is controlled by code. And a bit of experience with software that overrides such defaults to allow simultaneous input over multiple, "normally" orthogonal channels leaves me convinced that such can likely be done with the internal microphone of most devices.

falcolas2• 13 years ago

I've found a few laptops with physical shutters for cameras; I like those. However, nothing similar for a mic yet.

pavel_lishin3• 13 years ago

I'd pay someone $10 if I could figure out a way to make sure that my macbook never plays the "I AM NOW TURNING ON" sound.

switz• 13 years ago

    sudo nvram SystemAudioVolume=0

If this works for you, please donate the $10 to Archive.org.

cooper12• 13 years ago

When turning on the macbook, hold the mute button. While this will last through reboots, I can't guarantee it since the setting seems to reset when I boot into windows or a liveCD.

r00fus• 13 years ago

I never get it - probably because my default volume is 0 (which is overridden nicely when I choose an alternate output source - like BT headphones or the headphone jack).

jahewson• 13 years ago

If your MacBook is muted when you shut it down hen it will not play the startup sound.

SiVal2• 13 years ago

In fact, I'd like these switches to be above the F-keys and to have tiny LEDs that glowed when the switch (not the device, just the power switch) was allowing power to reach the device. I still want indicators showing when the devices themselves are operating, but for security purposes, I would treat the power switch LED as a warning that the devices have power and, therefore, could be on whether they claimed to be or not.

tehwalrus• 13 years ago

There was an article about this before - with a case where a hacker in California tried to blackmail students who he'd spied on having webcam-sex during a long term relationship.

Since I read that, I've been keeping a piece of post-it note on my Macbook Air camera, although it does fall off occasionally (and I need to remove it, very rarely, to actually use the camera.)

I've just upgraded it to a proper piece of card with real tape. ugly, but effective.

kayoone• 13 years ago

That the victim in this case didn't see the light, doesn't mean that it wasn't on. She might just not have noticed it. If the older models required so much effort to hack, i doubt it got easier with the newer models, especially since we are talking about Apple here.

Obv. its still a problem, even if the light turns on. Taking a quick picture doesnt requite the light to be on for long, so it could go by unnoticed.

troubledwine• 13 years ago

There's quite a bit of alarm here and in the wording of the article. But no mention of HOW this exploit is applied. I mean surely they're not saying you send someone an e-mail and if they open it their webcam firmware is changed? Or visit a web page or have a flash banner ad run?

You'd have to get the user to download and run a package installer that prompts for an admin password RIGHT?

In other words; this isn't just something that can happen without end user interaction.

evan_• 13 years ago

You'd have to get the user to download and run a package installer that prompts for an admin password RIGHT?

In theory; but a motivated party with sufficient resources could simply ("simply") author a fake OS update and deliver it to you over a compromised ISP and you'd never know the difference.

joshfraser3• 13 years ago

You would just chain multiple exploits. For the right price you can buy a zero-day exploit for anything you want -- for the browser, OS & root access. If you have the money, installing the camera exploit in place is trivial.

joshfraser3• 13 years ago

No, it can run in user space by an unprivileged (non-root) application:

https://jscholarship.library.jhu.edu/handle/1774.2/36569

enneff• 13 years ago

To do this you need code execution privileges on the target machine, but there are many ways to do this (social engineering, browser exploit, etc). The research is specifically about disabling the camera light.

asciimo• 13 years ago

I agree, and I remain skeptical that this is a trivial or common hack:

But researchers figured out how to reprogram the chip inside the camera, known as a micro-controller, to defeat this security feature.

Aren't Mac firmware updates always a big deal with special boot modes and audio tones?

jdiez174• 13 years ago

Nope. The paper explicitly states their assumptions. Asking for admin password (root) is not one of them. If you can get them to run a game (for example), you can pwn them.

nexttimer3• 13 years ago

As usual - what's possible to exploit will be exploited.

There's really only 1 solid solution to this:

Open software and open hardware.

millerm• 13 years ago

I'm just playing devil's advocate here... Your argument for "open software/hardware" doesn't apply here. There was an exploit found in almost 6+ year old hardware/software. Has nothing to do with the fact if it is open or not. "Open" != "non-exploitable" || "flawless".

Edited for bad boolean.

jdiez174• 13 years ago

Open doesn't mean it's flawless. Open means you get more eyeballs on your designs, increasing the chance of catching a mistake.

midas0072• 13 years ago

Hear, hear.

Also applies to crypto-accelerated CPU instructions.

With OSS and OSH, at least there's a chance of auditing what one has is what was released, and a chance to audit that there's no funny business going on.

downer88• 13 years ago

Welcome to 1984.

WEAKNESS IS STRENGTH

headgasket2• 13 years ago

... The voice came from an oblong metal plaque like a dulled mirror ... The instrument (the telescreen, it was called) could be dimmed, but there was no way of shutting it off completely. (1.1.3) Oceanians live in a constant state of being monitored by the Party, through the use of advanced, invasive technology. It was terribly dangerous to let your thoughts wander when you were in any public place or within range of a telescreen. The smallest thing could give you away. A nervous tic, an unconscious look of anxiety, a habit of muttering to yourself – anything that carried with it the suggestion of abnormality, of having something to hide. In any case, to wear an improper expression on your face (to look incredulous when a victory was announced, for example) was itself a punishable offense. There was even a word for it in Newspeak: facecrime, it was called. (1.5.65)

What's aggregated about you? Are you against this monitoring that protects us from fear and terrorism? Did you state that in some online devious hacker forum?

INFORM and VOTE

datums• 13 years ago

I'm not crazy, yes. When I first purchased a laptop with a camera (MBP 2008) I put tape on it. I did some research and found that the NSA had published a report that stated they could not confidently secure the iSight camera from external access. trying to find it now.

bananacurve• 13 years ago

While this is theoretically possible with some firmware hack on 2008 machines you are far more likely to be compromised on any Android device that has side loaded apps.

collyw3• 13 years ago

It isn't going to be possible on mine, as it doesn't have a front facing camera.

unspecified2• 13 years ago

There is a freely-available kernel extension[1] to make this firmware hack accessible to root only. The exploit depends on modding the camera firmware from userspace.

The kext is created by the same authors of the paper[2] this article is talking about. Search the paper for "iSightDefender".

[1] https://github.com/stevecheckoway/iSightDefender

[2] https://jscholarship.library.jhu.edu/bitstream/handle/1774.2...

sehugg• 13 years ago

Once you're in userspace it's a short hop to root.

unspecified2• 13 years ago

But short of any hardware changes (including taping over the camera), this kext as far as you can go in software.

I'd MUCH rather see an admin password prompt come up, instead of nothing all.

nelmaven• 13 years ago

That's why I disable the webcam in the device manager

wowaname2• 13 years ago

Small chance that the driver can be installed remotely.

lawnchair_larry5• 13 years ago

Can you re-enable it?

Then so can malware.

joshfraser3• 13 years ago

Since this is HN, a link to some related code seems appropriate.

https://launchpad.net/isight-firmware-tools/+download

herbig• 13 years ago

No one has mentioned cellphone camera/microphone. I assume it's feasible to do the same remote operation with those?

lignuist• 13 years ago

They usually don't even have indicator leds and most smartphone have cameras on both sides. It is almost as if these devices are built to spy on their owners.

mixmastamyk• 13 years ago

How can software directly access microcontrollers in order to reprogram them? I thought the days of DOS/System7 were long behind us... or are we talking about kernel drivers that must be installed by root?

wowaname2• 13 years ago

conventional wisdom said there was at least no way to deactivate the warning light. New evidence indicates otherwise.

I thought this was old news.

TheLML• 13 years ago

Reminds me a lot of this: http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2013/03/rat-breeders-meet...

FollowSteph3• 13 years ago

I still don't understand why laptops don't have a physical slider for the webcam that goes overtop. Unless it's open no problem. Sure u still have to deal with audio but at least the video is taken care of...

sneak3• 13 years ago

What's said in my office is of a lot more value than how much my beard has grown.

There's no light that indicates an active audio input channel.

adamconroy• 13 years ago

The web cam on the inferior computer I use doesn't work if I don't plug it in.

uptown• 13 years ago

Interesting in light of this:

"NSA recommends physically removing iSight webcam from Apple laptops for security reasons"

http://endthelie.com/2013/08/20/nsa-recommends-physically-re...

slr555• 13 years ago

We had friends over the other night whose daughter goes to an elite private high school in nyc. She said one of her classmates had gotten bounced from school for executing the same hack described on fellow classmates. Kids these days.

dewyatt• 13 years ago

I don't understand why webcam indicator LEDs would ever need to be controlled by software.

I know of one Logitech USB webcam that has this issue. Turning the indicator off is as simple as:

  $ uvcdynctrl -s 'LED1 Mode' 0

lucb1e• 13 years ago

TL;DR firmware flash disables LED on some webcams, particularly Macbooks'.

We already knew this: http://security.stackexchange.com/q/6758/10863

belorn• 13 years ago

FBI had knowledge about this security vulnerability for years, yet they traded the security of innocent for an increased attack capability.

This is of course nothing new. They used Firefox zero day vulnerabilities before. It just highlights the priority that exist today. Their job is no longer to serve and protect, but to create news article where they can gain glory of taking down bad people.

andyjohnson0• 13 years ago

Ars Technica has a good explanation of the workaround [1], including a circuit diagram that I found helpful in understanding it.

[1] http://arstechnica.com/security/2013/12/perv-utopia-light-on...

wepple• 13 years ago

The flashing of the firmware to create a VM escape (Also in the research paper) is 100% cooler than being able to switch off the Webcam light

kro0ub3• 13 years ago

So, is this rooted in the firmware and hardware of the macbook itself, or does it only apply to those running OS X?

In other words, would this work while the machine is off or running Linux?

pepijndevos• 13 years ago

Where can I get the code? I want to try it on my 2007 Intel Mac and use it as a signal light, much like caps lock, but for Vim insert mode.

krosaen• 13 years ago

Don't existing theft recovery programs already do this?

I can't find the link right now but I remember a couple of triumphant "nerd recovers macbook pro" stories where they show photos taken of the thief using their macbook - presumably using this very trick to take a photo without turning on the indicator light.

zbthomas• 13 years ago

This is not news.

charris5• 13 years ago

...um, FYI, this hack has been avail for several years now... welcome to a Brave New World.

Research shows how MacBook Webcams can spy on their users without warning

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