Yogaglo Patent Issued

https://yogainternational.com/article/view/yogaglo-patent-issued

by Jgrubb • 13 years ago

199 103 13 years ago

binarymax• 13 years ago

YogaGlo's own website predates its original filing on Aug. 27, 2010

I was filmed in a Yoga class in 2007 using this technique. I don't have access to the video and am no longer in contact with the instructor, but I remember it happening and then saw the footage with my own eyes. I hope she reads this article and sends in the video as prior art!

eaxbin• 13 years ago

There's an overwhelming chance that she won't, I think you should try to contact her!

mark-r• 13 years ago

It's too late for that, unless there's a lawsuit.

bryans• 13 years ago

Unless the judges presiding over the inevitable lawsuits are complete fools, I don't see this patent ever holding up. The position of a camera inside a room is neither an invention nor patentable, and attaching a new word to an old (and pervasive) methodology does not magically constitute novelty -- in this case, appending "yoga" to "streaming video and audio over the internet."

moocowduckquack3• 13 years ago

The position of a camera inside a room is neither an invention nor patentable

Well it is de-facto patentable, in that this patent was granted.

krstck• 13 years ago

Unless the judges presiding over the inevitable lawsuits are complete fools, I don't see this patent ever holding up.

Maybe not, but are the organizations that Yogaglo will file suit against able to afford a defense? That's why this strikes me as particularly slimy.

toddwolf793• 13 years ago

That's the problem, who has the money to argue this in court. You're looking at 6 figures.

coldpie• 13 years ago

And so a whole bunch of money will be sent to lawyers without anything of value being created in return. I'm becoming increasingly convinced that the patent system creates more harm than it does good.

kitsune_• 13 years ago

From YogaGlo's blog [1]:

"Our patent application clearly outlines that the “look and feel” of a YogaGlo online streaming class is comprised of the following elements that all must be present in conjunction with one another: position of camera, position of the teacher, position of the mats relative to the camera and the teacher, an open corridor down the middle, the teacher must be facing the camera, the students must be facing the teacher, etc. We are not seeking to patent a camera angle. We are not seeking to patent the placement of a teacher in a room (online, offline, in your private studio, in your public studio). We are seeking to patent this one very particular combination of elements for a single online class."

This is so ridiculous.

[1] http://www.yogaglo.com/blog/2013/09/yogaglo-response-to-toda...

swatkat• 13 years ago

They could learn a thing or two from Karma Yoga[1] and Ashtanga Yoga[2].

[1]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karma_Yoga

[2]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aparigraha

rhizome3• 13 years ago

That would seem to enable the patenting of making a peace sign with your hand and fingers.

a3n2• 13 years ago

"an open corridor down the middle"

So the next innovation will be an open corridor on an oblique line from a back corner to the instructor. And then another with an open corridor from the back middle to the instructor at a front corner.

Oh, the innovations to come! I feel like I'm living in the future!

moocowduckquack3• 13 years ago

Is it possible to sue the patent office itself for crass incompetence?

Here's the claims, and they are mental:

1. A system for automatically producing a video representation of a yoga class configured so a remote viewer enjoys the experience of being in a real yoga class, the system comprising: a studio having a front area and a rear area; an instructor position located in the front area and facing the rear area; a line of sight corridor disposed between the rear area and the instructor; a plurality of students at student positions, facing the instructor position, distributed across the studio between the instructor position and the image capturing device wherein the student positions do not impinge upon the corridor; an image capturing device for capturing video located in the rear area disposed to provide a participatory view from a height of about three feet by capturing through the line of sight corridor, an unobstructed video of the instructor in the instructor position including images of the students disposed along the sides of the line of sight corridor; and sound capture equipment to capture at least audio of the instructions given by the instructor disposed in the instructor position to the students disposed in the student positions.

2. The system according to claim 1, further comprising remote control systems whereby the image capture device pans and zooms.

3. The system according to claim 1, further comprising means for recording the video.

4. The system according to claim 1, further comprising means for streaming the video via the Internet.

5. The system according to claim 1, further comprising means for adding music to the audio.

6. The system according to claim 1, wherein the instructor position includes an instructor's mat and each student position includes a student mat with each student mat disposed normal to the instructor's mat.

7. The system according to claim 1, wherein the corridor becomes wider near the image capture device.

8. A method for automatically producing a video representation of a yoga class configured so a remote viewer enjoys the experience of being in a real yoga class, comprising the steps of: providing a studio having a front area and a rear area; placing an instructor position at the front area of the studio, the instructor position disposed to face the rear area; locating an image capturing device for capturing video in the rear area at a height of about three feet to allow for a participatory view disposed to provide a participatory view from a height of about three feet by capturing an image of the instructor in the instructor position; laying out a line of sight corridor between the image capturing device and the instructor; distributing a plurality of student positions, facing the instructor position, across the studio between the instructor position and the image capturing device wherein the student positions are distributed so as not to impinge upon the corridor; capturing at least audio of the instructions given by the instructor disposed in the instructor position; and capturing a video of the instructor through the line of sight corridor, which video includes images of the students disposed along the sides of the line of sight corridor.

9. The method according to claim 8, further comprising a step of remotely controlling the image capture device.

10. The method according to claim 8, further comprising the step of recording the video.

11. The method according to claim 8, further comprising the step of streaming the video via the Internet.

12. The method according to claim 8, further comprising the step of adding music to the audio.

13. The method according to claim 8, further comprising a step of placing an instructor's mat in the instructor position and a student mat in each student position with each student mat disposed normal to the instructor's mat.

14. The method according to claim 8, further comprising a step of increasing the width of the corridor near the image capture device.

link to patent - http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=H...

brohee• 13 years ago

The patent examiner looks like he specializes in highly technical video compression, image stabilizing and the like.

This particular patent looks completely out of his usual field of expertise.

See for yourself http://patents.justia.com/examiner/nhon-diep

a3n2• 13 years ago

He probably had to go to lunch, and it was faster to stamp "Approved" than to justify disapproval.

josaka2• 13 years ago

The claim says images must be captured "from a height of about three feet." Put your cameras at five feet or two feet and feel bad for these folks paying tens of thousands of dollars to own "about three feet."

analog313• 13 years ago

This would be a situation where you have to look at the body text, not just the claims, because they could under certain circumstances file an amended claim set, so long as the new claims are anticipated by the body text.

Note: I'm not a patent lawyer, but have a handful of patents and have helped my employer with addressing patent related issues.

Coincoin• 13 years ago

"I put my camera about 5 feet high, not 3" is something that will need to be argued in court, which means you already lost.

nimble• 13 years ago

Not to distract too much from how terrible the subject matter of the patent is, but can someone explain why they decided to put the "system for" claims separate from the "method for" claims? There is some small fee associated to each claim, so why aren't each of these claims written as "a system or method for ..."

pbhjpbhj4• 13 years ago

Subjunctives are considered to be unclear in patent claims. Both claims can be lost by finding a citation that only has the system, or only the method.

The system here is basically a normal video presence system. But the claims specify the camera is at ~3 feet (whilst a normal video presence system will have the camera at average eye-level). That's the only part that might be hard to find a good citation against [in the allowed time] IMO.

The yoga parts are all non-technical elements so they add nothing.

Given the system is all well-known tech the method is all you've got.

That said the claims have a ring about them of not having been done by a highly skilled patent attorney.

analog313• 13 years ago

There's only a fee once the number of claims exceeds a certain number. Having duplicate "means" and "method" patents is pretty common. A general benefit of having multiple related claims is that some can stand even if others are knocked down.

jayrox• 13 years ago

wtf?

avisk• 13 years ago

This clearly shows Yogaglo and the people there did not gain anything by practicing the Yoga they are preaching. They don't have any idea of what Yoga stands for. If Patanjali had patented his Yoga sutras , we may not even be aware about this great practice.

Jgrubb• 13 years ago

I think that is what has my righteous indignation stoked much higher than the average absurd patent trolling news. I just can't fathom how someone who is supposedly "business minded" in this field could think it was a good idea to patent this, much less to start sending C&Ds to non-profits.

loceng3• 13 years ago

It just shows us that it's business-minded people in control, who are running, YogaGlo.

meddlepal• 13 years ago

I will bite, what's so bad about business-minded people running a business?

mikeryan• 13 years ago

I know Derik the founder of Yogaglo. He's both passionate about the practice and ideals behind Yoga and a savvy business person. I don't think the two are mutually exclusive.

Despite all this Yogaglo is a fantastic case of a highly successful, primarily bootstrapped business.

varelse• 13 years ago

As someone who spent many years doing yoga to attempt to improve my 2 sigma godfawful flexibility (not very successfully alas), I saw all sorts of misbehavior going on. Some examples:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/08/05/bikram-yoga-lawsuit...

http://www.gtweekly.com/index.php/santa-cruz-news/santa-cruz...

And this not the first time IP Law has come into play here:

http://abcnews.go.com/International/story?id=3200043

dcaunt• 13 years ago

There are videos on YouTube converted from 90s DVDs which show classes filmed from the back of the room. This one from a rather famous yoga teacher, Pattabi Jois https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aUgtMaAZzW0

aluhut• 13 years ago

I hope karma hits them back for this.

desireco42• 13 years ago

If this is not clear example why patents in current form are not working, I don't know what it is. This isn't about how dumb this patent is, it is about how broken the whole sistem is designed.

hrjet• 13 years ago

This patent is ridiculous for sure.

But let's not bash Yogaglo; it could be a defensive patent for all we know. In a land where ridiculous patent grants are the norm, businesses have an incentive to file patents to protect themselves from patent trolls.

What deserves our ire is the patent system.

Edit: Thanks for the correction pizza234. The article was not accessible (server HNed I guess). And I assumed that the patent was granted recently enough that benefit of doubt can be given to Yogaglo.

pizza234• 13 years ago

Unfortunately not:

On September 23rd, Yoga International broke the news that they (among others) had received a cease-and-desist letter from another website which also offers yoga videos for streaming (soon revealed to be YogaGlo)

so, feel free to bash it.

pbhjpbhj4• 13 years ago

You don't need a patent to be defensive. You only need publication. You can get that publication with an A document (published but not examined/granted) if you wish, there are cheaper ways; write it down and have it notarised.

nitrogen• 13 years ago

Is my understanding mistaken that the new patent laws in the US don't treat unpublished findings as prior art, as part of first to file, so a notarized undisclosed design doesn't count as a public application or publication of the invention?

kd5bjo• 13 years ago

Seems like they pursued the wrong kind of IP protection; the patent office should have denied the application and referred them to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trade_dress .

rhizome3• 13 years ago

Trade dress is more expensive to litigate.

joe_the_user• 13 years ago

Plus trade dress is a sane, established system that isn't supposed to be used harass and extort businesses who aren't trying impersonate your business.

toomuchtodo3• 13 years ago

What's the process to ask the patent office to reexam this patent?

t0dd3• 13 years ago

http://www.uspto.gov/patents/stats/Reexamination_Information...

"Filing Compliant Reexamination Requests"

http://www.uspto.gov/patents/Best_Practices_and_FAQs_for_fil...

cmm3242• 13 years ago

I think everyone here should post a comment on their announcement telling them how absurd this is. What it means for our nation as a whole, not just yoga videos. Keep the comments clean though, no reason to go all road rage on them.

http://www.yogaglo.com/blog/2013/09/yogaglo-response-to-toda...

cmm3242• 13 years ago

I posted this comment, it will never make it through moderation, but someone will have to read it.

This patent is absurd and has disastrous potential for our already broken patent system for all industries, not just instructional fitness. This just goes to show you how delicate your company is that you feel you need to patent the camera angle that you use when filming a live event. How about stop wasting money and time on frivolous patents and start working on making your product the best in the industry. You will make more money and ultimately have a happier customer base than going around bullying your competitors. GG.

cloverich2• 13 years ago

FWIW, when I go to their facebook page, the most upvoted (top) comment is lambasting them for this.

Not a heavy facebook user myself - its mostly my older, non-technical friends - but that makes it the perfect place to post information about how detrimental this type of business practice is.

alaithea• 13 years ago

If you're a subscriber, as I was, you can go into your account settings and "Suspend Indefinitely" your account from being charged. There is also a comments section. I'm betting they'll pay a lot more attention to those comments than to ones on a blog post or Facebook, so suspend your accounts if you have them, everybody!

dl_terp2• 13 years ago

I'm no patent expert, so why did we go from a "first to use" system to a "first to file" system? It seems that if we were still the former, this wouldn't be an issue, correct? There were obviously people before YogaGlo using this camera angle, otherwise they wouldn't have gotten the cease and desist. Now businesses (focusing on legal instead of product, which is one of many big misses with our current patent system) can and often must file patents to ensure someone doesn't come in after them and patent something they've been using for years.

salient• 13 years ago

I guess it was chosen to "streamline" the process of assigning a patent to someone (first come, first served). Unfortunately that doesn't necessarily mean it's a better process, because now, as expected, the trolls (or corporations with a lot of money for filing dumb patents) will be the ones to take advantage the most from it.

pbhjpbhj4• 13 years ago

If there were "obviously people before YogaGlo" doing the same thing then any citation that can be date verified of that will invalidate the patent.

This has nothing to do with first to file. You still need to meet obviousness and novelty requirements.

The move actually is to reduce the legal wranglings and to come in line with the rest of the world.

analog313• 13 years ago

We went to "first to file" in order to make our system more similar to the rest of the world. As I understand it, there were already very few cases where priority was decided based on inventorship.

felipeko• 13 years ago

Anything public can be used to invalidate a patent.

The first to file only refers to two inventors patenting the same non public (or public in the span of a year) invention. Anything public for more than a year cannot be patented because there's prior art (obviously).

So if you want to ensure someone don't sue you for a patent, you just have to publish everything you've been using.

Of course this is a lie, because there's always a patent that you can be sued, because even if you can invalidate said patent (even with another patent), you will still have to pay a lot of money.

WildUtah3• 13 years ago

"First to file" refers to a different technical timing issue.

It has always been the case that public use or description of an idea was supposed to make it impossible to get a patent.

That's a dead letter today. The patent office will eventually approve just about anything if you're persistent enough and use a thesaurus to make your claims seem a little different.

For instance, an East Texas jury just awarded a $2 million dollar verdict against NewEgg for using public key encryption in SSL. The patent was applied for in 1989. Whit Diffie, of course, invented and published public key encryption in 1976 and testified at the trial. The judge told the jury that the Patent Office was entitled to the presumption of validity over Mr. Diffie.

sonoffett• 13 years ago

As an interesting aside, it appears GCHQ had public key encryption almost a decade earlier (although not published until recently, of course).

Fuxy• 13 years ago

I'll wait until breathing gets patented.

IanDrake• 13 years ago

Why not, it's already taxed and considered pollution.

paulgb• 13 years ago

I'm glad to see this. It's hard to explain to non-techies just how pathetic the patent system has become with regards to Apple v. Samsung and WiFi patent trolls, but everyone can see how absurd this patent is.

dl_terp2• 13 years ago

If anyone actually has to pay out to YogaGlo, they could just follow the example of a certain tech company and pay in nickels...

asiekierka• 13 years ago

I thought it was said a number of times that this was a fake rumor.

SilkRoadie• 13 years ago

If this is in reference to Samsung... Most "Internet Facts" are not facts. Apple didn't get paid in nickels.

smalldaddy• 13 years ago

Hopefully they go after the porn industry for infringing this patent. The porn industry has the muscle to move (and change) the patent system.

angersock• 13 years ago

11. The method according to claim 8, further comprising the step of making loud and guttural moans for no apparent reason.

12. The method according to claim 8, further comprising the step of having the camera positioned looking down the actor's abdomen during penetration.

wavesounds• 13 years ago

I was joking with a friend I should patent "uploading yoga to YouTube" just a few days ago!

This patent is literally a joke.

Buttons840• 13 years ago

Maybe get a few 5 years old together, give them about 60 seconds of instruction and watch the infringement begin.

codeulike• 13 years ago

-find-replace-paste-

how many more cases like this will we see before the authorities realise that Big Yoga is abusing the patent system and stifling innovation that will seriously damage the whole yoga industry

matthuggins• 13 years ago

the camera used to record online yoga classes must "provide a participatory view [which means ‘a view observed by a participant in the rear of the class,’ according to YogaGlo] from a height of about three feet."

Well there ya go, just make a video from the second row instead of the back row!

oh_sigh• 13 years ago

They patented a camera angle? Can someone patent all the camera angles that Michael Bay uses in his movies?

theandrewbailey• 13 years ago

Good thinking, but too late.

scriptproof• 13 years ago

I recently discovered someone patented the android robot (granted in 2013) and other functions of robots such as walking. So I am not surprised. http://www.scriptol.com/robotics/patents.php

tobyjsullivan• 13 years ago

Isn't there technically a requirement that patentable ideas must be "non obvious" increments on prior art? This is a concept that is obviously subjective but seems to be completely ignored by the patent issuers.

t0dd3• 13 years ago

The position of a camera and people in a room is patentable now! What next. Where does this obscene urge come from to file absurd, obnoxious, predatory patents that do absolutely nothing except stifle innovation? Why can't businesses compete on their own merits and the value they provide the world? I wonder if they realize the harm they're causing--not to mention what they're doing completely violates yogic principles. They should retract the patent and issue an apology to the entire Yoga community. When will enough be enough and our patent system finally reformed to prevent this frivolous, grotesque, and utterly wasteful behavior?

SoftwareMaven• 13 years ago

It comes from the jackpots (or the continual revenue stream) that such predatory patents provide.

reustle• 13 years ago

Here [1] is an instance where Yogaglo has sent a Cease And Desist regarding camera placement.

[1] http://theyogablog.com/yogaglo-patent-bs/

WildUtah3• 13 years ago

I wrote a comment on the op site. [0] Apparently Disqus holds posts like this for moderation, though. Maybe because of the link.

It's good news, I guess. The more constituencies that are threatened by patent abuse, the more likely the system will be reformed. Since we as computer programmers are the top targets for this scam of a patent system, any allies we get should encourage us.

And yoga practitioners are more influential in Congress than computer programmers. Heck, illegal aliens and terrorists are more popular with Congress than we are.

[0] This one:

Good News, everyone.

First the bad news, though. Even if this patent is invalid, it will cost around a million dollars to fight a lawsuit against it. If YogaGlo sues you, your best bet is to pay whatever they ask, unless you have a million dollars laying around that you don't need. Validity or invalidity doesn't matter.

The good news is that there's a bill before Congress that can make things better. Today, unjustly accused patent infringers have no way to get their legal fees paid by their accusers even when they win. You just lose your million dollars in fees. If Congressman Goodlatte's "Innovation Act" (H.R. 3309) becomes law, the accusers will have to pay your fees if you win. That will put an end to most lawsuits based on invalid and frivolous patents.

The best thing of all is that you can do something about it! The Innovation Act has passed the House of Representatives and President Obama has been asking for reform legislation, but the fate of the bill in the Senate is in question. Senator Leahy, the Senate Judiciary Committee chairman, has introduced the Patent Transparency And Improvements Act (S. 1720) which has some provisions from the Innovations Act. Unfortunately, the Leahy bill does not include the loser-pays provision that would protect small business people and yoga teachers.

Call Senator Leahy's office and ask him to put a loser-pays provision in S. 1720 like the one in Congressman Goodatte's H.R. 3309. Then call your two home state senators and ask them to support a loser pays provision in S.1720. If you're a Vermonter, Leahy is your senator, so mention that you're calling from his home state. Constituent calls really matter. You will reach a smart, professional aide in your senator's office who will take down your message and your senator will hear about it. It only takes a couple minutes.

Contact information for your senator is here:

http://www.senate.gov/general/...

Senator Leahy's (D-VT) office number is (202) 224-4242.

jamesbritt• 13 years ago

Apparently Disqus holds posts like this for moderation, though. Maybe because of the link.

The site owner can set how comments are moderated, if at all.

They may have opted for some degree of spam-checking, or they may have decided that all posts need explicit approval.

Given the nature of your post I'm skeptical they will allow it, link or no link. :(

toddwolf793• 13 years ago

It got posted

toddwolf793• 13 years ago

FWIW: This YogaGlo company posted a NEW defense of itself today. Does it hold any water? http://www.yogaglo.com/blog/2013/12/yogaglo-update/

Yogaglo Patent Issued

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