Your iPhone and iPad Are Limited. T-Mobile is the Exception

http://www.itweakios.com/apps/blog/entries/show/27518711-the-ugly-truth-your-iphone-and-ipad-are-limited-t-mobile-the-exception-

by scholia • 13 years ago

155 120 13 years ago

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kgermino• 13 years ago

Another win for T-Mobile. I have to say, for all the negative things I've heard about them in past years, the more I hear about the company the harder I think about switching from Verizon.

No contracts for service, they separated phone subsidies from phone service, and reasonably priced data plans. Does anyone use T-Mobile? How is their network?

anonymoushn4• 13 years ago

In the peninsula where many Hacker News readers probably reside, their network is pretty great. In Austin, using T-Mobile is a lot like not having a data plan and having a phone with only moderately high probability. People who call you will sometimes get some message saying that your number doesn't exist.

The opt-out process for T-Mobile's DNS hijacking is not satisfactory:

> Note: In order for opt-out to work properly, you need to accept a "cookie" indicating that you have opted out of this service. If you use a program that removes cookies, you will have to repeat this opt-out process when the cookie is deleted. The cookie placed on your computer will contain the site name: "http://tmob.search-help.net.

sdkmvx• 13 years ago

> > Note: In order for opt-out to work properly, you need to accept a "cookie" indicating that you have opted out of this service. If you use a program that removes cookies, you will have to repeat this opt-out process when the cookie is deleted. The cookie placed on your computer will contain the site name: "http://tmob.search-help.net.

Do you have more information about how this works? I cannot imagine how a cookie would affect whether the DNS server returns NXDOMAIN. The site could possibly do it by IP but then the cookie wouldn't need to exist. If opting out just changes the ads to a 404 that is still DNS hijacking.

The DNS server needs to return NXDOMAIN if a domain does not exist. Nothing else.

bbwharris• 13 years ago

I had tmobile in Austin for years and its was always superb. I only switched for an incentive I definitely regret.

TylerE• 13 years ago

To play devil's advocate, how exactly do you propose they store such a user preference? And keep in mind cellphones don't have stable IPs.

LandoCalrissian• 13 years ago

I have had T-mobile for almost a decade and never had any problem with them. They are a GSM network so you can just swap out your sim card if you want a new phone, without having to jump through any hoops. They even went so far to correct problems that users were having with jailbroken iPhone on their network when they were still relatively new, which is pretty incredible.

I have never had any problem with coverage in major cities, if you get out of populated areas you will see that you are typically bouncing off partner towers, so you may lose data service, but will almost certainly have cell service. Basically as long as you live in a large city you will be fine. I never have had any problems (at least noticeable enough for me to remember) with dropped calls, or flaky service where I live.

I assume other peoples experiences may vary, but I think they are hands down the best cell provider.

lallysingh• 13 years ago

I've been with them for 3-4 years in NYC/NJ. I've been nothing but happy, and in Jersey City, they've got better coverage than AT&T and Verizon (anecdotal, but repeatable, data).

Their phone support has always been fantastic for me.

Right before they switched to no-contract mode, I called in to cancel a USB data card I wasn't using much anymore. I have a phone (no contract, unlocked nexus 4) as well as that card, that had finished its contract some time ago. They gave me ~40% off of my entire bill if I agreed to a 2 yr contract.

Then again, when I go out into some parts of the country, I get almost no signal. There was an HN post some time ago with a map of comparative cell-coverage.

danielweber• 13 years ago

I switched from AT&T to T-Mobile because AT&T just pissed me off with mandatory data plans.

T-Mobile's network is nowhere near as good for me as AT&T's was. I hope that it improves. The biggest problem is looking at my phone and seeing "0 bars."

Also, the data plan doesn't work with one of my phones. Ironically, the same phone AT&T forced me to have a data plan for. Maybe it would have never worked.

joelrunyon• 13 years ago

I did the same thing.

No issues as far as service goes unless I go someone in the middle of nowhere Indiana.

TMobile isn't perfect, but they don't have me swearing at them every month like AT&T did. The fact that I can bounce anytime is a huge bonus in my opinion.

ScottWhigham3• 13 years ago

As someone on AT&T now but whose contract has expired, I read stuff like this with great interest. I tested my friend's iphone 5 last week here and he was getting 22mb d/l and 10mb u/l. I could swear at AT&T a whole lot but still enjoy those speeds.

untog2• 13 years ago

Also, the data plan doesn't work with one of my phones.

If its an AT&T phone, it's likely because AT&T uses different frequencies to T-Mobile. This is likely also the reason for your 0 bars- many AT&T phones will only ever get EDGE at best.

andre• 13 years ago

TMobile in Portland OR, Seattle WA, SF/Bay Area I tested around 16-20MG/s, in other areas (Reno NV, Boise ID) of western US, "4G" runs between 4-8MG/s.

OpenSignal and SpeedTest are the apps that I used.

jff• 13 years ago

What is an "MG"?

abrowne• 13 years ago

Never had a dropped call in Minneapolis. My girlfriend is getting lots of LTE on an unlocked iPhone even though Minneapolis isn't one of the officially announced markets yet. (Our apt is still EDGE, but that's what wifi is for, right?)

nostrademons• 13 years ago

I've used T-Mobile for the last 4 years. Generally pretty happy with them - their customer service is unobtrusive and generally pretty good, website is solid, plans are reasonable. I think I did accept a 1-year contract when I upgraded to unlimited voice + data + texting, but the initial plan wasn't contract-based.

Coverage in the Bay Area is great. Out east it tends to be a bit spottier than most of the other networks - in rural areas or inside certain malls my relatives on AT&T or Verizon might get service but I won't. They're generally fine in major urban areas and around major highways, but somewhat sparser on the long tail.

nivla4• 13 years ago

I have had great experience being on T-mobile for about 5 years. Their customer service is exceptional and they also allow you to unlock your phone after 3 months.

However there are a couple of things that do irritate me:

[1] They sniff the header of every web-request looking for desktop browser string. If found they sent you a warning text threatening to cut off your service. It sucks especially when you move to a new home with no immediate internet service and want to tether for a few days.

[2] Non-existent domains redirect to a page with ads (Similar to OpenDNS). Sucks on a mobile since you have to wait for it to load to find out while adding to your data usage.

fencepost2• 13 years ago

Is the browser sniffing still an issue? What sort of plan are you on? T-Mobile changed some things last month (http://www.tmonews.com/2013/04/t-mobile-will-begin-bundling-...). You may be able to shift to a plan that includes (limited) tethering at no real cost.

The default includes only 500MB of "high speed" tethered data, but you can add higher amounts.

0x0• 13 years ago

Wow, that's pretty evil. I wonder what would happen if a reasonably popular ios app started using a desktop-like User-Agent in communications to its server!

paragonred• 13 years ago

I've been using T-mobile for about 5 years as well and have been tethering for about 3 years with no issue. I just have a regular data plan. No hotspot option or anything.

I wonder why this isn't happening to everyone?

dowskitest• 13 years ago

I'm on one of their pre-paid plans with a Nexus 4. I don't see any DNS hijacking and tether occasionally without issue.

I'm in the Midwest and the coverage is good in urban areas (HSPA+ and good voice). Voice at best in rural areas though.

sethco• 13 years ago

I have a Galaxy Nexus on T-Mobile which I occasionally use to tether my laptop and I have never gotten a warning like that. I have the unlimited voice/data/text plan but don't pay for tethering (which stock Android supports natively of course).

baggachipz• 13 years ago

I tether all the time and have never gotten any flak (monthly4g plan). Also, have never seen an ad on a 404. Odd.

pkulak• 13 years ago

I'm on T-Mobile, but I'm not going to lie: Verizon has a superior network. All that 700mhz LTE is amazing. However, T-Mobile's network is fine for me (their DC HSPA network really does approach LTE speeds at times), and they more than make up for it with things that I also care about that you mentioned.

rjv• 13 years ago

DC you say? I'm in Arlington/Alexandria, any info about their coverage there? I'm definitely interested in switching from Verizon soon.

DanBC2• 13 years ago

Eh, in the UK they have / had a package of "unlimited" 3g, £30 for 90 days.

Unlimited means they do weird stuff to prevent some content from working after one gigabyte per month - flash videos don't work, for example.

They throw up interstitial warning pages which break forms and the back button, which can be annoying.

They have fierce image compression proxies, but the Windows client (if you chose to use it, you don't have to) allows you to turn it off.

I carefully checked that it was unlimited, and I gave them fair warning that I consider myself a heavy internet user, and I made sure they knew before they took me on that I'd be hammering the bandwidth. And I do.

ig1• 13 years ago

You can negotiate with them to get proper unlimited.

Moto7451• 13 years ago

Indeed, T-Mobile seems to be turning things around a bit between the new pricing the the LTE Network rollout. I'm considering switching from their other half (MetroPCS) after I ran a DSLReports speed test on my buddy's iPhone 5 and saw 22Mbps. I was floored.

brackin• 13 years ago

I just moved to the valley and I love that they offer $10/m unlimited international calls and texts. They also offer free tethering up to 2.5GB's and unlimited data (w/o tethering). They claim not to slow you down at a certain point with unlimited data.

dwc• 13 years ago

I signed up with Voicestream, later bought by T-Mobile. I've been with them more than a decade. A couple of times they've called to inform me I need to switch plans because they're phasing out the one I was on. It's been a total win, no extra money, more stuff every time. I'm in Arizona, and coverage is fine here. Traveling in the US sometimes I get T-Mobile and sometimes I roam. A visit to Europe a few years ago I saw solid coverage, mostly T-Mobile. Yeah, it was $1/minute to call home. So I called every night for only 5 minutes to talk to my wife and daughter. Compared to hotel and restaurant expenses? Whatever.

I never think T-Mobile is especially good until I hear others bitching about their carriers.

PeterBB• 13 years ago

T-Mobile is great in Chicago. The network goes to shit as soon as you try to go downstate, though.

MarcParadise• 13 years ago

It's adequate in their mapped service coverage areas - but if you go into any kind of sizable building, expect reception to go way down.

There are plenty of businesses nearby where I'll have a full signal outside, but once I'm indoors it drops off to Edge network.

There are also blank spots of little to no data coverage that have no reasonable explanation.

That said, I'm aware of this and think it's worth the trade-off. I'm not going to another network anytime soon.

nsxwolf• 13 years ago

Using an unlocked AT&T iPhone 4 in the Chicago area. Many places have not completed the "refarming" effort of switching the 1700 MHz towers to 1900 MHz, so most of the time I am on Edge (2.5G).

When I happen to be in an iPhone 4 compatible cell, the 3G is pretty solid, often 6mbit down, 2mbit up.

Waiting for the 5S to upgrade - hoping the LTE and HSPA+ is good.

untog2• 13 years ago

I use them in NYC, and I'm never looking back. I pay $30 a month for unlimited data, unlimited texts and 100 minutes of calls. I bought my phone (Nexus 4) outright for $350. I even tried out hacking LTE to work with it, and I get T-Mobile LTE in Brooklyn (though not in Manhattan).

In summary; it's awesome. However, when I leave the city, coverage is definitely limited. I do so very infrequently, so it's fine for me.

skittles• 13 years ago

Be careful with T-Mobile. I live in a fairly small town (about 12,000 people) that is practically a suburb of a bigger town (over 200,000). I have 18 MBps Internet from AT&T Uverse, and the local cable company just started offering a much faster connection. T-Mobile? I can't even get a signal at my home. No signal.

Spooky23• 13 years ago

TMobile is great until it isn't. I had them for years with a $19.99/4ever plan grandfathered from Omnipoint many years ago.

Unfortunately for you, that means that you can't make a phone call 30 miles from your city center (or in remote locations like Brooklyn, NY or the state of Maine) , or in the back of your home, or 1000 ft from the interstate, etc.

idont• 13 years ago

I was in nyc manathan. Data Network was often unavailable. I had the 4g unlimited dataplan but only using 3g (iphone 4).

gz5• 13 years ago

Nice article.

No transparency, as usual, from those carriers.

I wonder though if overall user performance would be worse if they didn't throttle - carriers may think (correctly or incorrectly) it is their best option for the capacity/throughput issues they have?

Can't wait to a future of non-monopoly/duopoly wireless last mile...

drivebyacct2• 13 years ago

To be fair, the carriers aren't the only ones being misleading or opaque. Apple quite happily chips in (with a good second-long shot of their logo, no less) for the already blatantly false ads declaring "iPhone on the fastest network [AT&T]".

ampsonic• 13 years ago

Can you override (with or without a jail break?)

backwardm• 13 years ago

T-Mobile includes the personal hotspot at no extra charge. I just switched from AT&T too and have been really happy so far. My phone only gets Edge speeds right now, only because they haven't "reframed" their cell towers yet. (not exactly sure what that entails, but I understood it to mean that after reframing my phone would be on 4G, have better reception, etc.)

fencepost2• 13 years ago

This TmoNews post should give you a bit more information on what the "refarming" means: http://www.tmonews.com/2013/05/why-now-is-a-great-time-to-be...

Basically they currently have GSM on the 1900MHz band and HSPA+ on the AWS bands (1700/2100). They're in the process of reducing the capacity allocated to GSM, splitting HSPA+ onto all the frequency ranges, and adding limited LTE on the AWS bands. Later on they're going to reduce the GSM capacity a bit further while expanding the LTE capacity on the AWS bands. There's a nice little chart that shows this much better than I described it, while continuing to gloss over any technical details.

breck• 13 years ago

I just unlocked my phone and switched from AT&T to T-Mobile and couldn't be happier.

Decent service, and the $50/month prepaid plan including mobile hotspot is a great deal.

mtgx• 13 years ago

This is why it's bad that virtually no net neutrality rules were implemented for the wireless market when the net neutrality law passed.

ngoldbaum• 13 years ago

I don't think this has anything to do with net neutrality. For example, it's perfectly legal for Comcast to throttle your home cable connection.

runjake• 13 years ago

You can apply the IPCC file without jailbreaking, although I believe it still requires erasing all your settings and contents.

The IPCC file is a ZIP file with a bunch of images and XML files with interesting settings within.

There's a lot of superfluous FUD ("iOS uses more data than other smartphones, even when idle", which is not true) regarding iOS in the article.

rafeed• 13 years ago

It doesn't require you to erase your settings and contents [1]. You only have to do that if you want to revert or something goes wrong. It's actually very easy to install without a jailbreak.

[1] http://www.itweakios.com/apps/blog/show/26861181-updated-at-...

FireBeyond• 13 years ago

The superfluous FUD that you quoted was actually the article quoting the carrier, and their excuses for doing such a thing.

alecdibble• 13 years ago

He was quoting the carriers, though I could see how the statement could get misconstrued:

    However, from previous statements released by AT&T and many tech orginizations, iPhones are very complex devices with a very complex OS. The OS eats much more data, even when in idle mode, than most phones on the market. So by carrier request, Apple limits devices to "even out" the network, even if it means Galaxy users out perform Apple devices by such large scales.

rayiner4• 13 years ago

Newsflash: many of your cars are governor limited to 120 or 130 miles per hour, even though the car could go faster. The vast conspiracy!

liquidise• 13 years ago

Indeed. And much like high-speed highway driving, if my iphone 4s were to use its full internet bandwidth, i would be a mortal danger to my fellow man. Oh wait.

rayiner4• 13 years ago

No, but you might negatively impact the user experience of someone else in your cell sector. It's about system design. Your phone is just a way to access AT&T's wireless network. As the designer of that system, AT&T is entitled to control how your devices access it to optimize overall performance.

coldtea3• 13 years ago

>Indeed. And much like high-speed highway driving, if my iphone 4s were to use its full internet bandwidth, i would be a mortal danger to my fellow man. Oh wait.

It would be a total annoyance of your fellow subscribers to the same network. Maybe not a car accident, but a lot like traffic congestion.

I mean, since capacity does not grow on trees, and it is not that easy or cheap to expand it.

samolang• 13 years ago

I imagine cars are tested for max speeds much like ropes and carabiners are given weight ratings. The governor probably enforces these ratings because although your car could go faster, things might start breaking. Faster internet speeds aren't going to melt your CPU.

coldtea3• 13 years ago

>Faster internet speeds aren't going to melt your CPU.

Not, but they are going to melt the network.

Isn't it obvious, especially to a technical crowd like HN? And yet, you didn't mention this issue. Why?

xutopia2• 13 years ago

Will the telephone spontaneously combust if it downloads too fast?

dylangs10302• 13 years ago

I agree with you in principle, but to be honest, I think this analogy gives people the wrong idea. They're attacking it based on phones being non-lethal, which is probably unproductive to your point.

Zak2• 13 years ago

Those cars do not advertise a top speed higher than the governor allows. They would likely be subject to liability for false advertising if they did.

rayiner4• 13 years ago

They don't advertise any speed. Nerds look at what the chipset supports and assume that's what they're buying.

adrr• 13 years ago

But not safely faster. Tires on most cars are not rated above those speeds.

jackalope• 13 years ago

I just added two iPhone 5s to my AT&T family plan, and I regret it. They use up their data allotment in about 4 days, even if they never leave the home wifi, so I insist that the cellular data is kept off and only enabled when needed. Meanwhile, the WP8 and Android devices on our plan use only a fraction of their data allotment each month. Is it possible that Apple is responsible for this problem, and should do something about their devices being such data hogs?

saidajigumi• 13 years ago

Having two AT&T iPhone 5's on our plan, I can in no way corroborate your experience. Looking at the history for one of these phones, it has entire plan months that remain below the lowest data plan threshold. Seriously, there's a problem that needs resolving. Search the web, hit up AT&T support and/or an Apple store, etc.

xutopia2• 13 years ago

As someone who checks his usage daily I can assure you that if you are on Wifi you should not see your data plan used at all.

coldtea3• 13 years ago

In Singapore, using LTE (Singtel), I could get 30Mbps up/down, and around 30-40 ms latency on my iPhone 5.

Beat that, US!

pavanky3• 13 years ago

In an Atlanta I get 15-25 Mbps regularly outdoors (very close to downtown). The speeds are higher where there isn't too much concrete and people. I have also seen 55Mbps in suburbs of Atlanta.

This is on At&t.

dylangs10302• 13 years ago

It really sucks that carriers do this, but I think it's important to realize that the issue is transparency, not that they do it.

Verizon and AT&T have a problem with scaling. They should be honest and upfront about what speeds you're realistically going to attain, but I don't think they have an obligation not to throttle people. It's honestly hard to exist without it. I don't know if Verizon and AT&T could operate such competitive networks without throttling.

Another thing to realize is that this also happens to internet download/upload speeds. How often do you realistically hit the maximum speeds you're advertised?

I think there should be accountability for lack of transparency, but I can't say I blame them for throttling. I don't have enough expertise on cell tower networking to know if they could stay profitable with competitively sized networks otherwise.

shurcooL• 13 years ago

Agree, the lack of transparency is something I have a problem with, but the speeds are _way_ more than I need. I'd rather get slower speeds and higher bandwidth caps for the same money (if I could choose).

Zak2• 13 years ago

It doesn't seem at all reasonable to throttle a particular device and not other comparable devices. It seems more reasonable to have the tower/router adjust the bandwidth made available to each device in real-time to ensure there's enough bandwidth for all users in the face of capacity issues.

I think it's fine to advertise peak speeds if those are regularly attainable even if sometimes they are not. It's not OK to advertise such speeds if the device is sold in a configuration that can't take advantage of them without a hack or update from the carrier or manufacturer.

sneak• 13 years ago

The blame here lies squarely with Apple for allowing the carriers to pull this sort of bullshit with their customers. They're the ones who implemented this whole carrier profile mess on their platform.

They could take a lesson from Tron.

rayiner4• 13 years ago

Do AT&T even advertise specific speeds? Their advertising is "4x faster than HSPA+."

andrewmunsell• 13 years ago

Sprint iPhone user here (4S, Jailbroken)-- is there a way to change the DATA_TRTL_ENABLED value and disable the throttle? I tried editing the carrier settings file with iFile, but now I am having issues getting data (it very well could be the building I'm in right now, though, so I'll have to test again when I leave).

EDIT:

Yeah, it's the building-- the connection is actually fine, so it's not like Sprint is blocking me after changing the setting. I'll have to test speeds with and without the toggle enabled to see if it works (after I get out of this dead zone of a building)

reillyse• 13 years ago

I live in Los Angeles and I've just switched from T-Mobile to Verizon. An S2 to IPhone 5. My service has got so so so much better. The T-Mobile network is so bad that I never used up my 100MB/month allowance at 3G speeds in spite of the fact that I tried to use data on my phone all the time. Ridiculous in such a large metropolitan area. So don't all go rushing to T-Mobile!

wj• 13 years ago

Depending on where you live in LA you'll run into these problems with all carriers due to the topography.

I also found it quite annoying with AT&T even though there was a tower six blocks from my apartment.

enraged_camel• 13 years ago

Funny, I have been thinking about this just today. I'm currently paying $200+ a month for my iPhone on AT&T. How does T-Mobile compare, and how good are they in Southern California?

dauoalagio• 13 years ago

http://www.t-mobile.com/coverage/pcc.aspx/ Looks pretty good to me

zachlatta• 13 years ago

I have them and live in Los Angeles. Coverage is pretty fantastic, except for in brick buildings. On a good day I get 25mbps down on their HSDPA+ network.

bgar• 13 years ago

Just a couple of days ago I managed to get my unlocked iPhone 5 on T-Mobile with a great plan: 30/mo with unlimited web and text, 100 minutes. I don't talk much on the phone so this is great for me.

It was kind of hard to set up at first, but now I would easily be able to do it again.

aviraldg• 13 years ago

Am I the only one annoyed by the implication of "iPhones are very complex devices with a very complex OS."?

Pitarou• 13 years ago

Correct me if I'm wrong, but their's a clear case for a class-action suit, isn't their?

bonchibuji• 13 years ago

They deleted the page? I'm getting a 'Page not found' error.

Edit: Google Cache.

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:http://...

chadsch• 13 years ago

Website down. Anyone have a mirror/cache to share?

swatkat• 13 years ago

https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:http%3...

lucb1e2• 13 years ago

Sophos blocks access to this website:

> Access has been blocked as the threat Mal/HTMLGen-A has been found on this website.

Where the name links to: http://www.sophos.com/en-us/threat-center/threat-analyses/vi...

Any mirrors or something?

indeyets• 13 years ago

https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:http%3...

lucb1e2• 13 years ago

Yeah I figured, but no css or images. Thanks anyway, saves me looking the cache up!

xenonite• 13 years ago

this site is blocked here, using Firefox 21. It detects Mal/HTMLGen-A.

Someone else having the same problem?

ScottWhigham3• 13 years ago

I can say that this is not correct with my friend's AT&T iPhone 5. We are in Dallas (in McKinney, a suburb) and just last week we turned off his wifi, ran a speed test, and it reported 22mb d/l and 10mb u/l. There is nothing special about his phone - not unlocked, nor has he done anything to it to remove the limits. I was testing out the 4G LTE speed on his to see if it was worth it to upgrade from my iPhone 4S. My 4S' speed was only 5.5mb d/l and 1.5mb u/l.

joshcrowder• 13 years ago

Looks like the site is down?

josteink• 13 years ago

I dont get the connection. The iPhone and iPad is limited, yes. But how does that relate to T-mobile, a carrier? You buy your gadgets and cellular-services separately.

This headline makes about as much sense as saying China is communist. Cars are the exception.

thecosas• 13 years ago

Anyone notice that this now says "Page Not Found" and the site doesn't have the article up anymore?

technosmurf• 13 years ago

This allegation has been debunked. Apple device are not being throttled. In fact, the original author has deleted his article.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/7037/apple-not-throttling-ipho...

Your iPhone and iPad Are Limited. T-Mobile is the Exception

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