I'm Done with Mullvad

https://moonwriting.blog/i-m-done-with-mullvad

by lylo • 3 days ago

76 128 3 days ago

ayhanfuat• 3 days ago

Previous discussion: The CEO of Mullvad is the main financer of the Swedish Örebro party 695 points | 1784 comments (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48717469)

It also has a comment from the other founder: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48696800

CommanderData2• 3 days ago

Welp I'll be moving from Mullvad. Shame they have a no friction service.

Leonard_of_Q4• 3 days ago

Why? Just because you believe some political blog post?

teravor2• 2 days ago

it would be impressive if even 5% of the people loudly claiming they will move on will have done so.

charcircuit4• 3 days ago

Mullvad discusses its ideals of “a free and open society,”

A free and open society does not mean that law and order cannot exist. Nor does it mean that immigration laws cannot be created or enforced.

fabian2k• 3 days ago

There's a huge difference between enforcing reasonable immigration laws and what some right-wing parties are proposing. I don't know enough about this specific party, but you'll find similar ones in other countries. And remigration is in the end about deporting even legal and well integrated immigrants.

charcircuit4• 3 days ago

Freedom doesn't mean just what you think is acceptable. If a society feels like they let too many people into the country they have the freedom to undo it.

t0bia_s3• 3 days ago

Free and open society means others doing things that I don't agree with. Including private CEO donations or leaving service because of politics. By definition, it is attribute of democracy.

muldvarp• 3 days ago

Some key issues for the Örebro Party locally include strong secularism, a 30-hour workweek with retained pay, lowered wages for politicians, expanded social housing, abolishing preschool-fees, making public transport free of charge, ending taxpayer funding of what it sees as wasteful sculptures, monuments and art and introducing free dental care. Nationally the party has set out large-scale remigration, closing the Swedish borders to immigration, a stricter assimilation policy and ending taxes on energy and fuel as some of its key issues.

Seems very sensible.

m00dy2• 3 days ago

seems very populist.

lapkaaaa• 3 days ago

That sounds "We're for everything good and against everything bad so vote for us pls"

streetfighter648• 1 day ago

Uh, isn't that exactly what you'd want out of a political party? I wouldn't vote for them because I disagree with a few of their points, but if you think all of their policies are good and you trust them to uphold them, then go vote for them?

anthonj• 3 days ago

Every populist party works that way, by promising very "sensible" thing. They work like an echo chamber for trendy political ideas.

Whether or not they are actually capable or even plan do any of that it's a different matter. Typically, they only end up being a coverup for political extremism. In then other cases they fumble and somehow mess up the situation even more.

m00dy2• 3 days ago

I don’t use VPNs anymore. They feel pointless now since almost every website has antibot systems, and VPN IP ranges are much easier to flag than residential proxies.

squishington4• 2 days ago

I use a VPN because I still seed 10s of thousands of torrents and have a static IP address. I don't want the swarm to see that. Most of them are from private sites I trust, but some from private sites that have a huge membership I'm not sure about. I have a lot of movies and music that isn't available anywhere else and archiving that is important to me. Kept my music collection from what.cd and a lot of that you can't even buy on discogs.

kmfrk2• 2 days ago

It's not great as a Mullvad user: YouTube constantly complains and also shadowbans some of my livestreaming functionality, and my X account has now been flagged as a bot, which requires me to download the app and verify myself in ways that they won't explain. And X is practically useless without a user, much like Instagram. TikTok also shadowbans you with reduced functionality.

Twitch and Discord meanwhile feel remarkably unaffected compared to their counterparts.

VPNs in the aftermath of FireSheep[1] before we got proper HTTPS, but it's not likely to be the ban or censorship circumvention tool we think they are.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firesheep

dijit18• 3 days ago

You have the right to do what you want with your money.

In general though, I’m more likely to trust people who have strong opinions, especially if they’re dissenting opinions.

We often immolate people for not being perfect enough while letting people like Trump capture huge parts of their respective market.

Your ire isn’t useful.

I believe that this is handwringing from people who want to take Mullvad down.

inigyou16• 3 days ago

You tend to trust people because they have strong opinions even if those opinions are completely psychotic? Does that mean you would have trusted the German dictator if you were alive back then?

dijit18• 3 days ago

1) I wasn't alive.

2) My parents weren't alive

3) my grandparents weren't alive.

4) he was running a country, not a company thats entire purpose was to protect peoples privacy

5) had people taken privacy seriously, there would be a lot less dead people in Europe, famously the dutch kept meticulous records of their populations which is part of why the Nazi's were so effective.

archagon4• 2 days ago

This is how we get psychos like Alex Karp running the world.

Of course his ire is useful. You just don’t want it to be.

dijit18• 2 days ago

You lose one of the largest advocates of a free internet, and what you gain is... more people knowing that it's not acceptable to be anti-immigrant under any cicumstances

... While, Elon Musk still owns everything and in my opinion he's worse.

It's also very easy to sympathise with Mullvads co-founder here, so you help make the conditions for the next 2016 "surprise, an actual Fascist gains power!" election, which is what's happening in Sweden right now as SD (founded by dyed in the wool actual Nazi's) has become the second largest party in Sweden.

But yeah, go off king! You got this, show them who's boss! We'll all be better for it! (/s)

cinntaile4• 3 days ago

As if it isn’t a problem that their CEO is supporting policies that go against everything that Mullvad stands for as a company.

Mullvads mission is about privacy and against mass surveillance. That mission has nothing to do with their co-CEOs personal stance on immigration. I don't necessarily see the conflict of interest that the blog talks about?

einszwei• 3 days ago

The immigration policies (or mass-deportations) that Mullvad co-CEO is supporting with political donations cannot be achieved without mass surveillance and secret police.

It is really not difficult to draw this line to spot contradiction between co-CEO's personal stance and the company's mission.

subsistence234• 2 days ago

nothing can be done

are you sure you don't just hate the victims of all that crime?

LargoLasskhyfv3• 2 days ago

cannot be achieved without mass surveillance and secret police.

That doesn't apply to countries with a working personal-id system.

There it's just a matter of cancelling the banking account.

Some sieving at the borders, airports, harbors.

Maybe asking around the neighbours, former work where that sucker has gone.

Grabbing, and expedite. And that's it.

Bye, bye!

inigyou16• 3 days ago

Well that party wants to enact mass surveillance to protect the country from immigrants

cinntaile4• 3 days ago

I just checked. They haven't published their political standpoints yet so it's too early to say. They claim they will soon, ahead of the elections.

dijit18• 3 days ago

Making murder illegal doesn't imply that the government stalks you 24/7 to make sure you don't murder someone

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48967592

fragmede2• 3 days ago

On the topic of privacy, the reason to use an LLM to write is stylometry. If I use my own voice to write anything of significant length, enough personal mannerisms will come through, so that I can be identified by my writing. If someone were to do something subversive, and wanted to be anonymous, that's one more thing to do to hide your tracks.

Leonard_of_Q4• 3 days ago

Just make sure to use a local model if you're really serious about this since there is no guarantee the cloud models can't not won't add watermarks to the output.

dnemmers• 2 days ago

I'd hate to use my own voice to discuss my own views...because someone could think they came from me!

fragmede2• 11 hours ago

If you were gonna do something that really pissed the wrong people off, you'd not want them to find you.

u1hcw9nx• 3 days ago

I wrong long text, never again.

inigyou16• 3 days ago

can be called populist,nationalist, conservaive, anti-immigration, and radical, but it can't be called right-wing without explanation.

You just said the explanation.

Caius-Cosades• 3 days ago

So what does a political blogpost have to do with HN or tech?

Leonard_of_Q4• 3 days ago

Nothing except for the link with the well-known and -regarded VPN provider Mullvad. The ban on political articles here is not complete nor unbiased.

g-b-r18• 3 days ago

What a blogpost about Mullvad has to do with tech? When easily half of all HN submissions have no relation whatsoever to tech?

lylo2• 2 days ago

It's about a popular security tech product! Sure there's a political angle as to _why_ the person has ditched it, but loads of HN news posts do. Not sure why it's flagged

nopromisessir4• 3 days ago

This post seems like an overreaction to me.

Being this sensitive to company leadership political activity is going to exhaust a person and time would be better spent being careful to buy products with minimal value added from authoritarian nations with a history of gross human rights issues.

Lots of counties don't want immigration, especially after they let a large group in and deal with integration challenges. The CCP forcefully places ethnic Han into minority homes to function as de facto informants. The Russians broke up Finnish/Ukrainian families en masse, moving them to the other end of Russia to minimize the likelihood of dissent in occupied areas.

There are a lot worse ideas at play in the world than some of the more extreme suggestions that this very infant-sized Swedish party flirt with. On a scale of 1-10 heinousness, barely registers on the global stage.

My thinking goes more like this:

This product I bought from this nation... Does that Nation tend to value human rights, freedom of expression and liberal values? Sweden... Check.

I can buy Swedish products all day. They make nice jets and mobile artillery that push back on the really bad ideas. One CEO's affiliation with an anti immigration populist party which honestly doesn't seem that serious... They've got some Marxist ideas in there. I really doubt these guys go much of anywhere in their current form. It's a capitalist society. Some of their ideas will stick but the party is immature. I wouldn't worry so much.

inigyou16• 3 days ago

It's not a minor political activity, they're literally the main funding source of Sweden's Nazi party.

nopromisessir4• 3 days ago

You are telling me that this party's platform is literally that Swedish decent people are superior... Full stop... Because that is the ethnofascist(Nazi) position.

If so, I'd be keen to see clear evidence of that.

g-b-r18• 3 days ago

Most of the current comments here are in favor of Örebro, when did tech become so disgusting?

squishington4• 2 days ago

There are social forces that are shifting the collective mindset to be more sympathetic to anti immigration sentiments. We see it in Australia recently, but the political analysis of this phenomenon is still lagging from my perspective (I am not endorsing these sentiments).

g-b-r18• 2 days ago

I think we can call most of these social forces Putin (although there are real problems with immigration).

Ok, in Australia they can probably be called Murdoch

teravor2• 2 days ago

    > sympathetic to anti immigration sentiments

why are you rhetorically laundering illegal immigration or nebulous refugee loopholes through the reputation of legal immigration?

hobonation2• 2 days ago

It's reactionary:

   Immigration isn't just sunshine and roses, and the negatives are coming to light. Especially when we're allowing Sharia-espousing people, exposing people who, by definition, can't integrate with our own values: FGM, abusing women, and child brides are not acceptable to me.

g-b-r18• 2 days ago

Why the monospace?

I used to think that people in tech would have the brain to react in a sensible way, anyhow.

And I don't see how you could think that someone "by definition, can't integrate with our own values" without resorting to racism.

archagon4• 2 days ago

The true hackers have long left this site, I'm afraid.

What's left is an audience devoted to power, money, and being the boot that stamps on a human face.

Gud• 3 days ago

Personally I welcome more parties in the Swedish Riksdag.

It is also interesting how they may get their seat.

Örebropartiet is a local party to Örebro, but because they are getting a lot of votes in the local district election they may end up in a seat in the Riksdag, which is highly unusual.

g-b-r18• 2 days ago

because they are getting a lot of votes in the local district election

Or because they're getting a lot of money through Mullvad subscriptions

nopromisessir4• 3 days ago

Lots of discussion surrounding what ethnonationism is...

Ethnonationalism: Defined by shared ancestry, lineage, and cultural heritage. Membership is exclusive and inherited by birth, focusing on preserving a specific ethnic identity.

Civic Nationalism: Defined by shared political principles, values, and laws. Membership is inclusive and open to anyone who adheres to the state's legal framework, regardless of background.

Does the party call for remigration or a lower status for immigrants who have committed no crimes, found jobs and are not a disproportionate drain on the welfare state? To be ethnonationist, I believe they must call for that on the basis of us vs them. Perhaps someone can provide evidence of this. I haven't seen any. Seems like they are very upset about crime and welfare drain. Also they have a bunch other non immigration related positions that some might label as extreme.

g-b-r18• 2 days ago

"They will also be forced to leave, even if they are born in Sweden, because they have no natural connection to Sweden. They are not Swedish"

I don't see any mention of crimes, having jobs or "being a disproportionate drain" (however you define that).

nopromisessir4• 2 days ago

I do not speak Swedish, but I looked into this via machine translation.

My understanding is that the discussion can be found around this timestamp link:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4goynP4mHYI&t=1h18m43s

According to the machine translation, Allard explicitly frames his argument around cultural assimilation, economic contribution, and behavior rather than biological ethnicity or skin color alone.

In public statements, he has routinely asserted that an individual's racial background or skin color is irrelevant to his politics.

Look, I'm not some Allard supporter. Don't know the guy, not even Swedish. Easily found some stuff on their platform which I quickly disagree with. I really doubt he's literally out there just calling for mass deportation of folks based on ethnicity. That is actual ethnonationism. Swedish people are from a nice free society and are accustomed to low crime and low problems. They've got this 2nd generation migrant issue that lots of Europe is dealing with.

The definition of ethnonationist is being used so flipantly throughout this thread.

Do your really think this guy is just standing up saying 'remigrate all dark skinned folks who got here recently'?

Even if that were his true political goals, it would be pretty self defeating to just charge onto the stage going full Nazi. He wouldn't have this much movement.

g-b-r18• 2 days ago

Other comments about that at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48977236

stasomatic2• 2 days ago

What is Swedish? Their own royalty is a forever soup with Danish, German and French ingredients, with Norman umami added before and after. They could just say tall/white/Caucasian and stop being polite Swedish about it. But they won't, because. Not my country, not my problem, but it's just so glaring. Do police work, educate, integrate. What's done is done, move on.

belorn• 2 days ago

People who look at this from a US political perspective is going to get a lot of misunderstanding unless one look into the specifics that are the Swedish political system and laws.

The party in question is a small local government party looking to primary get seats in their local government, but with aspiration to get into national politics under a special rule that provide a single seat (1 out of 349) in parliament if the party get enough votes in a local election. The politician in question has made some comments about national immigration policy during debates, which local government has no power over, and which is what the label ethnonationalist is exclusively based on. Last election they got 7 700 votes, and they would need around 20 000 votes to get that one parliament seat.

The specific quote in question has a bunch of context. The background was a parliamentary proposition that suggest that immigrants that are on subsidy programs should be required to do some social work as part of the integration process. The opposition disagreed, arguing that this would enable the government to exploit immigrants as free labor, and that is when this politician commented that if they want subsidy but refuse to work then they should return back to their home country (often translated as deported, which is not completely wrong translation but lacks context).

The discussion around deportation from Sweden is also very different from the political discussion in US. Sweden has been deporting people for about 100 years if a person lacks permission to stay in the country, and there is no party that is advocating to stop this. What is debated is the definition used in the exception for unsafe home country, and a bit about what specific circumstances a permission to stay in the country can be withdrawn. Except for the above mentioned parliamentary proposition, I do not know of any political statements that Örebro party or their leader has said on those issues.

sph3• 2 days ago

People who look at this from a US political perspective is going to get a lot of misunderstanding

Honestly you’ve summed up 90% of social media outrage.

hereaiham• 1 day ago

The opposition disagreed, arguing that this would enable the government to exploit immigrants as free labor, and that is when this politician commented that if they want subsidy but refuse to work then they should return back to their home country.

If the opposition parties disagreed, why did this politician assume that unemployed people "refuse to work"? like what type of argument that is? He sounds like an ignorant populist repeating sound bites to spread hatred honestly. Or maybe he thinks of them as pawns with no agency, and not people.

kmfrk2• 2 days ago

Swedish politics aside(!), I'd love to have other VPN services as exit points for Tailscale. More choice is good, and hopefully that becomes an option one day.

lylo2• 2 days ago

I've been recommended https://airvpn.org. Any opinions?

Cider9986• 2 days ago

Not audited. IVPN is what I would use if I didn't use Mullvad.

I'm Done with Mullvad

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