Dell releases powerful, well-supported Linux Ultrabook

http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2012/11/dell-releases-powerful-well-supported-linux-ultrabook/

by iProject • 14 years ago

520 348 14 years ago

The price is a little scary but I'm hoping the drivers from this will benefit other Dell laptops.

johnward4• 14 years ago

They have to be building in a couple hundred dollars for especially driver support because I can't see how this is $1500 without the OS license costs. I think I would still rather go with a MacBook Air.

wildranter• 14 years ago

Not too shabby. Keep working on it Dell and my next notebook might be a XPS instead a MBP.

A few tips, just cram in a decent screen and glass trackpad.

jwcacces• 14 years ago

Nice, but that screen resolution is awful!

How did 1366x768 ever become acceptable?

I know it's a 13" screen but still...

tluyben22• 14 years ago

I clicked the article to check that. How depressing :(

jebblue• 14 years ago

Agreed, web sites today pretty much demand far more resolution than what we had in the 1990's. I imagine it's cheaper and that's why the trend has gone this way but this is a pitiful trend. I think it might be lower than new smart phones.

CitizenKane2• 14 years ago

I was with them right up until this. Even the very similarly speced Lenovo Yoga 13 has a higher resolution screen (1600x900). I've nearly given up on using my 2011 Mac Book Pro simply because the screen resolution is awful.

mtgx2• 14 years ago

2560x1600 or bust.

https://plus.google.com/+LinusTorvalds/posts/ByVPmsSeSEG

reidrac• 14 years ago

Yep, that's what I thought. And it is advertised as "developer edition"...

yungchin2• 14 years ago

What's funny is that they put this project on their IdeaStorm website when they started it a few months ago, to get feedback from Linux devs. Almost all of the higher ranking suggestions were about the need for a higher screen resolution, and still they went for 1366x768...

JasonFruit3• 14 years ago

I'm happily using a laptop at 1280x800, and though I miss the big monitor I used when I had my big beast of a machine set up, I can't say I feel constrained; I just use fewer screen splits in Emacs. Still, for $1500, I'd expect better.

threedaymonk• 14 years ago

How did 1366x768 ever become acceptable?

I think it's a combination of two factors.

First, at the low end, manufacturers emphasise the screen size, but avoid mentioning resolution, so in my local supermarket there are cheap laptops prominently advertised as 15", but they only have 1366x768 resolution. Perhaps that's what the customers want: a big screen that they can use to watch videos in their bedrooms.

Second, even if you do care about resolution, it's hard to find out what it is. It's usually advertised as some cryptic series of letters ending in GA. QWERTYUGA; ASDFXGA; WTFGA. Look at this madness! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graphics_display_resolution

I wish they'd specify screens in size, aspect ratio, pixel density, and megapixels. (I know some of those are redundant, but shoppers shouldn't need a calculator.)

CitizenKane2• 14 years ago

If this were a low end laptop destined to be used by everyone I could understand. But this is a high end computer meant to be used by developers and it's just a hair under the price of Retina Mac Book Pros and right up with the price of a Mac Book Air. The offering isn't quite as competitive as I would have hoped and for that cost there are a multitude of other options available that are better.

mcguire2• 14 years ago

That's the resolution of all the XPS 13's, I believe. The specs that are different for this model are CPU, memory, graphics card, etc.; things that are likely easy to change. I suppose laptop screens aren't one of those.

majorlazer• 14 years ago

It's not. Anything lower than 1440x900 is a deal breaker for me. I rather take a hit in performance than go down to 1366x768. You know something is wrong when your 4.3" phone screen has the same resolution as your 13" laptop.

dkhenry8• 14 years ago

Every time I read this I have to think to my self how silly it is to lead an article with Some things (particularly components like trackpads and Wi-Fi chips) take some fiddling to get working

Thats total balony, trackpads and WiFi have been well supported in Linux for almost a decade. It is _rare_ to find a labtop that when you install la fresh modern distro on it , things don't work. Yes every now and then you get a vendor who insist on doing something different, but most of the time its a synaptic track pad ( well supported ) and a Broadcom or Intel WiFi card ( well supported ). I can remember back in 2004 taking my Government Issued Dell laptop and installing Fedora on it and everything working out of the box.

alimoeeny• 14 years ago

I think when people say trackpad support they want full support not just basic support, like there are many laptops that on windows have scroll and hot corners and stuff but on linux you may only get basic functionality.

efuquen• 14 years ago

This is exactly what most people mean. I've instead Linux on my Macbook Pro, compared to the support OS X had Ubuntu's was a joke. Same with wifi, it did not just work out of the box for me. And I know it's lightyears ahead of where it use to be, but that doesn't hide the fact that the default OS X experience was just plain better and hassle free.

dkhenry8• 14 years ago

That's not always a driver issue. The software must support anything your trying to do. Things like two finger scroll work just fine, however things like pinch to zoom , maybe not.

tikhonj3• 14 years ago

Interestingly, I had the opposite experience with my trackpad: on Windows, it just supported the basics along with scrolling along the side. On Linux, it supported a bunch of multi-touch things (like two-finger scrolling and two/three finger button presses), both horizontal and vertical scrolling and circular scrolling (some of these were settings turned off by default, but they could be configured from a nice settings GUI).

acabal2• 14 years ago

Not entirely true, wifi on the wrong chipset was a nightmare till just a few years ago, and even on the right chipset (Intel) there were problems as recently as Oneiric. (I installed it and my Intel wifi throughput went down to .5kb/s, there was an active and angry Launchpad issue about it.)

kijin• 14 years ago

Tell that to the HP Mini 210 that I bought in April 2011.

Synaptic "clickpad" trackpad that claims to support multitouch: Sorry, only with their Windows driver. Not only I don't get multitouch in Ubuntu, but I can't even click or drag/drop anything. Ubuntu 12.04 claimed to fix the issue with clickpads, but it didn't work out of the box, and even after extensive tweaking, some features were still very buggy. In the end, I switched to a laptop that has a traditional trackpad without the multitouch bullshit.

Broadcom wifi card: Works fine once you install the additional driver. But there's a catch: last time I checked, the driver didn't come with the install CD. So I have to download it in order for wifi to work ... but I need wifi in order to download it. Ended up digging out an old ethernet cable from a dusty closet and crawling under another closet to connect it to the modem. Not pleasant!

Of course, most of the problem lies with hardware vendors who don't release fully functional open-source Linux drivers for their gadgets. But since when does the average user care whose fault it is that their trackpad doesn't work? The great thing about this Dell release is that all their drivers are fully functional and freely available as a PPA. Because without those drivers, few of today's latest PC laptops work with Linux out of the box.

dkhenry8• 14 years ago

Your doing it wrong [1] A Single data point does not a result make. Others have had no problems with that exact laptop. For a counter point I could never get the CD-ROM hotplug working on my old dell laptop in windows. Clearly windows doesn't support CD-ROMS.

1. http://www.linlap.com/hp_mini_210

VMG• 14 years ago

Not so fast there - Radon graphics still suck, with both the official as with the open source drivers.

The Lenovo s300 with Intel HD 3000 however works flawlessly out of the box, with HDMI, audio over HDMI, multitouch touchpad, camera, suspend and everything. Just don't touch anything with an ATI card.

johnward4• 14 years ago

I always hear this comment yet I can still not get wifi to work on an early 2000's HP laptop with ubuntu. I pretty much just gave up this point

armored_mammal• 14 years ago

I just picked up a laptop for a relative that both had trackpad issues, lacked touchscreen support, and even had fn-keys that didn't work (you know, for controlling brightness and volume and such on the laptop) under Linux. And it was a pretty mainstream ASUS with Intel.

driverdan3• 14 years ago

I'll bite. Please tell me which laptops have fully supported graphics cards, including dynamic switching between integrated and discreet without reboot.

JasonFruit3• 14 years ago

I'm not disputing your point, but as a long-time application developer (and of course general computer user), I had to look up what the difference was. I've never had the need to switch between them (that I'm aware of). In what circumstances does it become important?

rjbond3rd• 14 years ago

Are you familiar with Bumblebee? It provides switching between integrated and discreet graphics without reboot for NVIDIA Optimus-equipped laptops.

Although at the moment it's a manual install, it should find its way into popular distros soon enough.

http://bumblebee-project.org/

gnaffle• 14 years ago

Here's the thing: On most laptops, most things will work "OK enough" under Linux. But there always seems to be some kind of small issue. And even when it works, it often stops working after an upgrade. Like my Toshiba that worked well until an upgrade suddenly made it unable to boot into X, or my ThinkPad that had the annoying fan running all the time for no apparent reason.

That's the problem. It means that if you're a linux expert and can spend some time fixing things each time they break, Linux on Laptops is great. And you're in a better position to fix things when they do, since you can modify the source.

Surio5• 14 years ago

>> But there always seems to be some kind of small issue

Another Toshiba (Satellite L650) owner here. I had major issues with wifi and display. Drove me mad.... Ubuntu forums were helpful, but ultimately ineffective. If I installed it on VMWare... no issues though.... what in the name of heaven is going on.....

>> It means that if you're a linux expert and can spend some time fixing things each time they break

And I didn't have that liberty either, plus you really shouldn't be doing this kind of thing at this day and age, if you know what I mean.

For Linux, I still have to fire up the VM, the RAM usage goes up, the machine heats up.... and the family has a field day teasing me about my obsession with Linux... Frankly, some days I wonder it it's all worth it to jump so many hoops.

AndrewNoNumbers• 14 years ago

That is the truth. I've had Ubuntu on my Dell laptop for years, and it was an entire learning experience to perfect the setup completely to my liking. It was great when I was young and had the time to play around, but recently I made the sad jump to a MacBook, because when it came time to actually work on real projects, I needed a rock solid desktop experience where I didn't have to constantly fiddle with my own computer. My Mac is nowhere near as fun or personal as my Linux setup, but it is what I rely on to do my work. Hopefully this Sputnik project makes Linux what Apple does in terms of the complete hardware/software package

w1ntermute13• 14 years ago

I just got a Lenovo ThinkPad X1 Carbon[0] ultrabook 2 days ago and installed Xubuntu 12.10. It really is stunning how the hardware just works. I didn't have to fiddle with any of it - I had out of the box support for the video card, Wi-Fi, Bluetooth, etc. Even multitouch trackpad gestures work (although I personally prefer the trackpoint). The laptop itself is nothing short of amazing[1], especially once you wipe Windows from it. In fact, Lenovo TrackPoints have never worked the way I like in Windows (where you can use the middle mouse button for both middle-clicking and scrolling), but they do in Linux.

I thought I would dislike the new chiclet keyboard, which deviates from IBM/Lenovo's two-decade old keyboard design, but unbelievably, I actually like it. Having used chiclet keyboards on MacBooks, I never liked them, but Lenovo seems to have done it right.

Edit: there's one other issue, but this seems to be a (depressing) trend in the industry: decline in user serviceability of laptops. You can't replace the SSD (it's soldered onto the mobo), and replacing the RAM is not recommended. The price is quite high, especially if you upgrade the SSD (not recommended; just get a 2.5" USB 3.0-powered external HDD - I got a 1 TB one for $70 just a few days ago) or RAM (recommended; 8 GB is always good to have these days, and there's only one slot, so if you replace it later, you'll still have to buy 8 GB), so watch for sales/coupon codes (there was a good one for Black Friday) or use your college .edu address to get a student discount.

Edit 2: Lenovo also changed the power connector to a rectangular shaped one, because the X1 Carbon's profile is too thin to use the old, circular one. This means all your old ThinkPad power cables are now useless.

0: http://www.lenovo.com/products/us/laptop/thinkpad/x-series/x...

1: http://www.theverge.com/2012/8/13/3232132/lenovo-thinkpad-x1...

chimeracoder18• 14 years ago

I'm curious what your experience with the Thinkpad X1 Carbon has been - I was one of the beta testers for the XPS 13 (as noted in my other comment in this thread). I absolutely love the XPS 13, but the X1 Carbon was the other laptop I would have considered getting.

jeremyjh2• 14 years ago

I've been eyeing this due to its nice display. Glad to hear it works well with Ubuntu. How well does power management work? Battery life?

recoiledsnake2• 14 years ago

>I just got a Lenovo ThinkPad X1 Carbon[0] ultrabook 2 days ago

Isn't a touch version of that coming out soon? Even if you don't like touch, it might be good to have if it's not too much extra cost.

http://www.engadget.com/2012/11/20/lenovo-thinkpad-x1-carbon...

pnathan• 14 years ago

> It really is stunning how the hardware just works.

That's been my experience with Linux in the last 3-4 years. Almost everything just works for the "usual" settings. No more futzing with XFree86Conf files... :D

Stratoscope• 14 years ago

> You can't replace the SSD (it's soldered onto the mobo), and replacing the RAM is not recommended.

That's not quite correct. The SSD is not soldered, it is replaceable. The problem with the SSD is that it's not a standard mSATA part. The RAM does appear to be soldered to the motherboard.

Source: ThinkPad X1 Carbon Hardware Maintenance Manual - http://support.lenovo.com/en_US/guides-and-manuals/detail.pa... - SSD replacement instructions on p62; note the absence of RAM replacement instructions, indicating that it is not a Field Replaceable Unit (FRU).

digitalzombie• 14 years ago

Mint didn't work on my t510 laptop (I bought the laptop refurbish three months ago after my lenovo t4xx die after 10 years of usage).

I reinstalled it with kubuntu 12.10 and the volume buttons doesn't work nor some of the fn+command keys. Sometime the touchpad just die and I have to restart the computer if I really want the touchpad (I use vim+tmux to dev so I don't need the touchpad unless I want to surf the web).

edit: As for what was wrong with mint. After Nvidia's driver update sleep wouldn't work, it would sleep forever like sleeping beauty unless you hold down the power button for several second to turn the laptop off and reboot.

nollidge2• 14 years ago

Linux seems to work fine on 90% of laptops, but from a consumer perspective, I don't want a 10% risk that some little thing won't work.

You're right in that I can be reasonably certain that a laptop I buy will run Linux, but I can't be certain that there won't be issues. And I can't be certain that the random forum poster who successfully is using Linux on the model I want to buy uses their device like I do - maybe they never sleep and always shutdown, or don't ever use bluetooth, or don't care about USB 3.0, or never use two-finger scrolling, or don't need to access SAMBA shares, and so I cannot know before my purchase whether it'll do everything I want.

And so, I stick with Windows, because it is the devil I know.

technomancy3• 14 years ago

So spend 30 minutes doing a little research before you buy? Seems like something you should be doing anyway before making any >USD1k purchase.

epochwolf3• 14 years ago

Ubunutu on my new Thinkpad x131e can't change the brightness of the LCD and it runs the battery dry in two hours. Windows 8 can run for 7 hours with bthe brightness at 70%.

The track point sensitivity is too low and I have it at the highest sensitivity. (You need to turn the sensitivity in the settings to the lowest value to get the highest sensitivity!)

Don't get me started on lack of uefi boot support. Grub recognizes Windows 8 but refuses to boot it. I've had to install an msata ssd and put the Windows bootloader on that and install grub and a boot partition on the hdd to get useful dual booting.

Linux is far from a cakewalk on my machine.

vegardx• 14 years ago

You should take a look at ThinkWiki, they usually have good information on how to get around the little quirks of Linux on a Thinkpad.

http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/ThinkWiki

mongol• 14 years ago

Dell Precision M4500. 2 years old. Trackpad scrolling: did not work. Wireless: not working out of the box. SD card slot: not working. Camera: not working out of the box. The list goes on. For me that was the last straw, after using Linux as my main OS since -96 I am now mainly a Windows user. I am too old to spend hours investigating the state of kernel patches to get basic hardware working.

I love Linux but the state of hardware support has reached a steady state in my opinion. Things break, others start working, then they break again.

trotsky• 14 years ago

you just have a different value for baseline. I assure you that getting multi-touch trackpads ready for more than two finger gesture support under x does indeed remain quite fiddly in the majority of cases today.

knightni• 14 years ago

This just isn't true.

A couple of years ago an issue with the USB3 driver broke suspend on laptops with USB3 for quite some time, requiring workarounds. Multi-touch trackpads took some time to get full gesture support. Auto-switch between paired graphics cards still doesn't work.

That's not to say things aren't pretty good now - but to imply that linux doesn't require some fiddling about under the hood hardware-wise is stretching a lot.

fernly• 14 years ago

"It is _rare_ to find a labtop that when you install la fresh modern distro on it , things don't work..."

Nunh-unh. I recently tried to repurpose an original MBA to Ubuntu 12.10 because it isn't supported by current OSX. While I was very favorably impressed by the current state of the Ubuntu out of the box experience, it just didn't work smoothly on the MBA:

* Sleep/wake wasn't smooth, often had to click the mouse or the power button to wake it;

* "right click" is an unintuitive two-finger tap that is often falsely detected as you attempt a two-finger scroll gesture -- the Mac convention of control-click isn't recognized;

* there is a persistent "serious problem" warning that pops up a couple of times every time it wakes up, related to a known bug with the graphics adapter -- it was harmless but would be dead scary to the novice I planned to give the machine to -- and it wasn't fixed after several weeks.

* After I plugged headphones into the jack, the internal speaker went silent. Ubuntu still knew whether there was a headphone in the jack or not, but the speaker never sounded again.

I finally put OSX Snow Leopard back on it and of course, everything "just worked" (including the internal speaker). The recipient will just have to live with end of life software.

edtechdev• 14 years ago

You can get very nice, lightweight laptops that run Linux perfectly for much less, even from Dell (such as the Dell 14z which was only $300 on black friday). The main tips are to look for laptops that don't have dual graphics cards (nvidia optimus - although it will still work with http://bumblebee-project.org/ ), and google for the laptop model plus "linux" or "ubuntu" to see other folks' experiences with it.

The main issue now though are the new Windows 8 tablets (the Pro ones that mostly are not out yet) - we'll have to see how well they run Linux distros.

mtgx2• 14 years ago

I have a Lenovo Ideapad y570, and it does have dual graphics, but it doesn't need Optimus. It has a physical switch, so that means I can use either one whenever I want in Linux or Windows.

I actually think it has more problems in Windows, as sometimes when I switch them, my USB 2.0 driver seems to die, and doesn't recognize the mouse anymore (USB 3.0 one still works), and I have to reboot to get it working again. Not sure why that happens.

rm9992• 14 years ago

It's great to see Dell doing something that resembles innovation, and it's great to see laptops that can run Linux out of the box. But honestly I just don't trust Ubuntu after they built advertising ('online scope results') into their interface. How much more will they cripple their distro as they struggle to monetize? I understand Ubuntu is free, but this fact doesn't benefit the end-consumer much because Microsoft gives Windows to OEMs for practically free and the cost of OSX is irrelevant.

Most people who should be using Linux know how to install it on a wintel machine. I'd rather see Dell put 100% of its open source effort into releasing Linux-compatible drivers for all its laptops instead of marketing niche products.

pjmlp• 14 years ago

As long as they don't start creating a Dell Linux distribution with their own set of "experience enhancers".

recoiledsnake2• 14 years ago

>because Microsoft gives Windows to OEMs for practically free

Practically free? I don't think so, except for Windows Starter Edition on Netbooks and those have strict guidelines on what qualifies as a netbook.

rm9992• 14 years ago

Thanks for the correction, my information is old. My friend in the XP days told me a company he worked with got licenses for something like 25 dollars each. I just did a google search and it looks like OEM prices have been rising and are much higher now.

irahul3• 14 years ago

> Some things (particularly components like trackpads and Wi-Fi chips) take some fiddling to get working.

Trackpads and wi-fi has been working for me for a long time(not implying this isn't a problem for many people), but what drives me completely insane is the video cards. If you are planning to run linux, seriously re-consider buying laptops with hybrid graphics. The graphic card might or might not run, the card switching will most likely not work, but you can ignore it since you can work with the intel card, right? Well, no. Most of the AGP, whether used or not, will eat up power, the fan will run at full speed and your laptop's behind will be hot enough to stir fry some veggies.

If you have a laptop with hybrid graphics, and you can't make it work, just switch off your discrete card.

https://help.ubuntu.com/community/HybridGraphics

Laptops in general, and linux laptops tend to run hot. However, don't mess with power settings a lot. Putting harddisks on powersaving mode(refer hdparm) so that they become idle puts unnecessary strain on the disk. You can try out experimenting with cpu frequency(cpufreq-set).

xradionut2• 14 years ago

Nice try but, dang the hardware is limited. I have XPS 17 that's heavy, but several times more powerful. I'll continue to run Linux on my Dell in a vitual machine...

dkhenry8• 14 years ago

You know you can install it right on the hardware and run windows out of the VM. You might even see a performance increase in your virtualization.

xradionut2• 14 years ago

I don't want to juggle all the driver issues, etc... Hence the vitual machine for Linux amongst all the other guest OSes. Best of all worlds. Plus Linux isn't my primary working OS, I use it for testing and hobby programming.

dedsm• 14 years ago

so my phone has the same resolution than this laptop

berserkpi2• 14 years ago

LOL, I simply do not understand why they keep producing that low resolution... a bad joke perhaps... :P

PhrosTT• 14 years ago

Dell releases i5, 8gb ram, 256gb ssd, 3 lb., 1366x768, $1500 laptop. (price includes cost of $0 OS).

Wow what a deal. /s

johnward4• 14 years ago

MacBook Air is only like $100 for the same specs.

ZoFreX• 14 years ago

(price includes costs of ensuring OS works flawlessly with hardware and delivering updates in the future to keep it that way)

mcguire2• 14 years ago

Technically, it is an i7 ("3rd Generation Intel® Core™ i7-3517U (4M Cache, up to 3.0 GHz)").

Lambdanaut• 14 years ago

With Linux on Steam coming out, whoever is the first to start building gaming Linux boxes is going to cash in big time.

(PS, It's not quite Dell with this under-powered laptop, but they're close! )

Nursie• 14 years ago

Yeah, marvellous. Maybe they've released it in the US. Here in the UK I emailed them last week to enquire about whether they would sell me the exact same model with no OS (or anything but Windows), and he answer was just simply 'no way'.

I find that intensely annoying.

takluyver2• 14 years ago

The UK seems to be terrible for getting Linux pre-installed. I've noticed a few major OEMs release Linux laptops elsewhere, but never bring them to the UK. There's nothing like System76, while smaller countries like the Netherlands seem to have companies something like that.

Do our laws let Microsoft get anti-competitive exclusivity deals? Or are we Brits so establishment-loving that the market isn't there?

Surio5• 14 years ago

http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2012/11/system76-unviel-17-extrem...

You mean this is not available in the UK? (Genuine question.)

So why is omg ubuntu covering it? (genuine Q)

technomancy3• 14 years ago

> ... retains the pilot version's 1366x768 display resolution.

Close tab.

ivany• 14 years ago

But true. Good news is that more and more vendors get this.

marshray• 14 years ago

I remember fondly the days when a 15" 1024x768 noninterlaced monitor was the highest resolution you could get for a PC (excepting exotic hardware that only supported AutoCAD), but that was 20 years ago!

Hopefully this (and the Surface RT) mean vendors are experimenting with ways to get the last of the crap resolution panels out of inventory and this generation of hardware will be the last.

Seriously, my 4.7" cell phone has 768 pixels in the short dimension. For a "developer laptop" this is unacceptable.

acabal2• 14 years ago

Great idea, but I wish they had worked with the 14 inch one instead. It's more or less the same stuff on the inside. Hopefully with more programs like this from companies like Dell, companies like AMD and Nvidia will take their Linux drivers more seriously. (As in, at least get them to work, let alone play a game or two.)

kibwen• 14 years ago

Is it too much to hope that the drivers from this effort are not just free, but also open-source?

Other than that, props to Dell for even attempting something like this. The hardware ain't mind-blowing (as others have pointed out), but hopefully this is a step in the right direction.

drcube• 14 years ago

They've been stepping in this direction for about ten years now. Nothing has come of it yet.

brudgers2• 14 years ago

The fact that this is news is shows why Linux is not a viable alternative to Windows or OSX outside a very narrow market niche.

And if you think I'm wrong, what does this get you if your organization was standardized on Fedora?

pekk• 14 years ago

If it doesn't work - this is why Linux fails

If the vendor doesn't support it - this is why Linux fails

If it works and the vendor supports it - this is why Linux fails

hmmm...

brudgers2• 14 years ago

That's Microsoft you're talking about...

Linux is like Europe. Kissenger can't call it on the phone. The laptop isn't a win for Linux. It's a win for Ubuntu. It doesn't do squat for any other distro.

Linux has success. It can continue to be successful on its own terms. But it will never be successful in the same way as Windows. Just as Windows will never be successful in the same way as the Mac ecosystem, and the Mac ecosystem will never be successful in the same way as Linux.

Long live the Commodore Amiga.

politician2• 14 years ago

Maybe this will help put some gravity around fixing Skype for Linux. Alternatively, does anyone know of a good video conferencing tool for Linux that also supports Windows as well?

yungchin2• 14 years ago

How about Google Hangouts (comes as a Firefox plugin)?

Random_Person• 14 years ago

I'm going to throw myself out there on this one... but what's wrong with Skype on Linux? I rarely use it (so maybe that's why I'm not understanding), but I've done interviews for multiple podcasts on two different laptops (both with 12.04) and I've never had a problem.

politician2• 14 years ago

I seem to have a lot of trouble with how it manages the brightness of my camera. `luvcview` displays a working, normal image, but Skype really dims the lights. Also, people report that they receive the message, "requires Skype premium" when the attempt to begin a screen sharing session.

These issues make Skype on Ubuntu a non-starter for me.

aw3c2• 14 years ago

not only good but also free and open-source http://www.jitsi.org

johnward4• 14 years ago

The price is crazy. I know this one has less ram but it also includes a Windows license in the cost: http://store.vizio.com/ct15a5.html

*edit: plus the vizio TVs are really nice.

driverdan3• 14 years ago

> The launch hardware costs $1,549

For the same price you can get a MacBook Air with a 1440x900 screen.

jonhohle• 14 years ago

Which also seems to have very good hardware support: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/MacBookAir4-2

JulianK• 14 years ago

I think 4-2 is the 2011 Macbook Air. I've been thinking about getting the 2012 and putting Ubuntu on there, but there seem to be a number of semi-unsupported steps required to resolve kernel panics, you have to disable apic support and various other issues.

graue5• 14 years ago

For a much lower price, actually. $1140: http://www.amazon.com/Apple-MacBook-MD231LL-13-3-Inch-VERSIO...

Or $1430 (still over a hundred dollars less) with twice as big of an SSD: http://www.amazon.com/Apple-MacBook-MD232LL-13-3-Inch-VERSIO...

This XPS does have 8GB RAM (versus 4), but that's the only big advantage that sticks out to me.

weej• 14 years ago

I was excited when I heard about this initial project, and was holding out for the official release specs. The display is a big disappointment, and show stopper for me.

I do agree this is a great first step and partnership for hardware manufacturers, specifically for device drivers.

I really do hope this is successful enough that Dell sustains the product line and continues to iterate on improving it over the next couple years. I would love a Mac Airbook alternative ultrabook for development.

Additionally, let's hope this spurs some competition in the market for other manufacturers. I've done ZERO market analysis, but it seems like quite a niche market that is rip for the picking (*NIX DEV Ulatrabook), and has the potential for decent profits w/ the right hardware specs and pricing.

Kudos to Dell for taking the imitative in the right direction. Let's see how it pans out.

> Edit spur competition

cllns2• 14 years ago

The Windows version of the same laptop is $50 less. Uh, what?

[1] http://www.dell.com/us/p/xps-13-l321x-mlk/pd

[2] http://www.dell.com/us/soho/p/xps-13-linux/pd.aspx

bryanlarsen• 14 years ago

Dell has a bunch of engineers working on Linux support for this notebook, they have to pay them somehow. I don't mind paying an extra $50. The big problem is that the Linux version will probably never go on sale, yet the Windows version will be on sale more often then not so there will be a lot more than a $50 delta. I hope I'm wrong.

phaemon• 14 years ago

The Linux one comes with Pro Support, rather than the standard. I suspect that's the difference.

cllns2• 14 years ago

Ah, I see. That makes sense.

oneandoneis2• 14 years ago

The Windows version comes preloaded with crapware that Dell gets paid to put there. This subsidises the price. Until Linux comes with all the "free trial!" garbage as well, it's likely to cost more.

makmanalp2• 14 years ago

Does the first link also create a javascript alert with the text "9" in it for you when you ctrl+shift+tab? What a crazy bug.

Surio5• 14 years ago

Someone mentioned Steam/Linux and if some vendor has decided to become an early mover into that market:

http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2012/11/system76-unviel-17-extrem...

And FWIW, I've had major problems with wifi and integrated graphics display as recently as Ubuntu 12.04! Virtual Linux on Win 7 works fine though. And I've been with Linux since Slackware 1.0/RHEL 5 (and several distros later....), still not given up on Linux.... continue to be hopeful....

I must be mad! (/joking to myself there)

niels_olson4• 14 years ago

> Display: 13.3" HD 720p

Erm, gotta go, bye.

jonpaul• 14 years ago

I'm not sure how they plan to compete with Macs? The price is definitely not competitive. I care about computing experience. When it comes down to it, I haven't found a better *nix workstation than my Macbook Pro.

I love Ubuntu. I use it for all of my server deployments. I'd love an Ubuntu laptop that works well. But, it has to work better than my Macbook Pro for me to consider switching.

hdra• 14 years ago

this is rather unrelated, but just now I was reading another chromebook released by Acer on The Verge, and I was left wondering, why does it seems like the vendor adoption of the rather new and unproven Chrome OS seems to be much higher than that of Linux desktop that has been around for the same time (if not longer) as Windows...

memset2• 14 years ago

Here is a question (sorry to try and hijack this thread): this is a great laptop, but while we're at it, have people had good experiences with other ultrabooks?

My experience has been that things like EFI have made it impossible to boot linux on recent macbooks (I have tried!), and many ultrabook hardware just doesn't work on linux. Graphics won't show up, the thing won't boot, SATA hard drives not found, etc.

Many of the websites I used to rely on (eg, linux-laptop.net) have very out of date information. Ubuntu has a list of certified machines (http://www.ubuntu.com/certification/) but still, it doesn't tell me much about ultrabooks released in the past year.

Are there any new resources I'm missing? Or personal experiences people can share?

As for myself, I'm successfully running Mint on a Toshiba Portege ultrabook. But that is the flimsiest computer I've ever used!

calpaterson• 14 years ago

FWIW, I use an ASUS Zenbook (quite a popular ultrabook) to run Ubuntu and it works fine.

EDIT: But I did have to fiddle a little to get the clickpad working properly

dpezely• 14 years ago

For the near-1kg range: Samsung Series 9 (NP900X3C-A01US)

Ubuntu 12.04.1 installs & runs without modification, but some minor Fn keys didn't work (e.g., WiFi toggle button).

Arch Linux with systemd installs & runs fine, and it had great battery life because 'rfkill block all' seems to more thoroughly power-down those circuits on Arch than Ubuntu. (well over 7 hours with wired ethernet, plus Emacs and Firefox in heavy use)

maratd• 14 years ago

I have the NP900X3C-A04US which is similar, but has slightly upgraded specs.

> Ubuntu 12.04.1 installs & runs without modification, but some minor Fn keys didn't work (e.g., WiFi toggle button).

This doesn't even work on Windows without their crap-ware.

I made a copy of their installation files, uninstalled it, and now run it only when I need to use those FN keys (that is - very rarely).

Other than this and the 4GB of RAM ... this is absolutely the most perfect laptop I have ever put my hands on and even beats out the Apple MacBook Air (which I sold after getting this).

technomancy3• 14 years ago

I have one of these. The hardware is completely supported on Debian but I couldn't handle the shallow keyboard, so I went back to my Thinkpad. Probably would feel the same about any Ultrabook though. I miss the glorious screen but the keyboard is more important.

tikhonj3• 14 years ago

I have a Sony Z series, and it works reasonably well. The external dock/graphics card thing that connects via LightPeak is very cool but doesn't work at all on Linux. (To be fair, it doesn't work under Windows 8 either :P), but apart from that, it's been a great laptop.

xuki• 14 years ago

It's possible (and fairly easy) to boot linux (at least ubuntu) on my own macbook air 2011. I bet it's doable on any newer mac.

reledi• 14 years ago

My ThinkPad X201 is great for the most part. There are some issues with the wifi. The wifi icon will sometimes disappear so I have to manually restart nm-applet. I also have a tough time connecting to public wifi (or the connection is dead when I'm connected), which other computers connect to easily.

tehwalrus2• 14 years ago

EFI / Macs / Linux - check out rEFIt: http://refit.sourceforge.net/ (however, I haven't used it in a while, and I notice that the latest news on the site is from 2010...)

memset2• 14 years ago

I have tried rEFIt! On my late 2011 MBP I was not able to get it to work.

So either I was installing and configuring it wrong (definitely possible) or it just doesn't work any more. (Or maybe a combination of both. This is the life of an open source zealot i'm afraid.)

emehrkay2• 14 years ago

Is it too much to ask to go to dell.com and see pictures of their products?

Steps I've taken, and since given up:

1. Type in dell.com 2. Decide that I am looking for "For Home > Ultrabooks" 3. Scroll long page of laptops 4. Decide to narrow page down to 12-15 inch screens 5. Find XPS-13 6. Get taken to a configuration page 7. Sees no "view pictures of computer" button/link

The pics on ars makes the machine look good, the bottom kinda reminds of of the nexus 7's profile

chimeracoder18• 14 years ago

I was one of the beta testers for this laptop, so I've been using it for the last few months. [If anybody has any questions about it, I'd be happy to answer them - I've used many different laptops over the years for comparison.]

I couldn't be happier with it - I have a larger laptop that I use as my "main" computer at home (essentially as if it were a desktop), and the XPS13 is what I take with me everywhere and use for presentations, developing on the go, etc.

I've used Linux as my main OS for some years now, and for me the main appeal of this computer was the size/weight/battery life when compared to my larger laptop. If you've been waiting for a Linux ultrabook for portable development (or even just ultra-portable general use), this is it.

Compared to my work computer (a Macbook Air), the difference is enormous. Hardware-wise, the XPS13 just feels slimmer, even though the difference in size/weight is negligible. The biggest physical differences are the keys and trackpad - I'm typing this now on a mechanical keyboard, and I've gotten so used to the Das Keyboard that I can't stand the feel of chiclet-style keys. However, the shape of the XPS13 keys (slightly indented) alleviates some of the annoyances I have with most laptop keyboards (the Air included). The trackpad is highly sensitive, and I like the texture slightly more than that of the Macbook Air.

Battery life is great, even with Bluetooth turned on (though I usually leave this off - I still haven't found a real use for Bluetooth on my computers!).

I should mention the display - it's the perfect size for me. I actually dislike the Macbook Air on this one point - it absolutely kills my eyes by the end of the day (both the default size and default brightness/contrast). I have neither of these problems with the XPS13, but it's still crisp enough that I don't feel like I'm missing anything.

Overall, I'm incredibly happy that I got it, and I actually get slightly annoyed now when I have to use my Macbook Air for work - I wish I could be using the XPS13 instead. Aside from the fact that I'd rather be using Linux any day, hands-down, the computer just feels more physically appealing in itself. Even at its price[1], it's worth every penny.

[1] I should note that I received my testing laptop at a 20% discount, though after using it, I would be willing to pay full price for it if I'd had to.

jjcm• 14 years ago

Battery life in hours?

chimeracoder18• 14 years ago

Long enough for me to use at an all-day conference without worrying about recharging.

I'd estimate somewhere between 6 and 8 hours. It's hard to say because I've never actually run it down fully, but it still estimates another couple hours' worth after I've been using it for 5 hours or so. Estimates should be taken with a grain of salt, but for comparison, that's more than I get on my larger laptop, and comparable to what I get on my Macbook Air.

thomaslutz• 14 years ago

Sorry, but this reads like a paid review (which you disclosed in the last sentence).

One of the most important things for a developer is a screen with as much vertical resolution as possible. Why didn't they put the 1440x900 in it? The Macbook Air still seems to be the best (developer) Ultrabook when I consider all specs. And it is by far not the most expensive.

chimeracoder18• 14 years ago

> Sorry, but this reads like a paid review (which you disclosed in the last sentence).

If that's what stands out the most to you, there's probably nothing I can say to change your mind.

> Why didn't they put the 1440x900 in it?

No idea. I have no connection to Dell; I just filled out the form when they had public signups for the beta over the summer.

> One of the most important things for a developer is a screen with as much vertical resolution as possible.

Maybe if you do front-end/design work - I don't. I actually prefer the resolution on this compared to the Macbook Air - less eye strain when staring at a terminal all day.

llimllib9• 14 years ago

I find the monitor to be the killer failure of this dell, it's not only smaller, but it's less bright with a more finicky viewing angle requirement.

bitbckt2• 14 years ago

The X1 Carbon is 1600 x 900 IPS, and works great with Linux (typing this on one running wheezy, now).

sigkill• 14 years ago

I wonder why no one speaks much about the Asus Zenbook prime with it's 1920x1080 display. All reviews rave about it. Is there something bad about that notebook that I should know?

pyre2• 14 years ago

I can do development on a 1024x600 monitor. I think it's a "different strokes for different folks" sort of thing. Maybe moreso than you think...

lucasmoellers• 14 years ago

How well does it support multiple monitors? I like to be able to plug in two monitors and use the laptop screen to have three total displays.

chimeracoder18• 14 years ago

Perfectly - I implied that when I mentioned presentations, but I guess that wasn't clear. If you want only a second monitor, it's completely plug-and-play, with auto-detection.

I've only tried n = 2 monitors with this computer, which works, but in my experience with Linux, if you have any issues it'll be with going from 1->2, not 2->3 (or more). Ubuntu's had good support for this for a while.

2mur• 14 years ago

How is the sleep support? Can you close the lid and go?

Whenever I have tried to use linux on a laptop, I've never had this working right. One of the big reasons why I've always gone back to a macbook (that and the hardware).

balac2• 14 years ago

On my Asus Zenbook this works perfectly.

pyre2• 14 years ago

This has worked fine for me under Ubuntu on my current EeePc and my previous ThinkPad X41. The only issue with sleep on the ThinkPad X41 was that eventually sleeping/waking would cause the headphone jack to stop working without a reboot (or a suspend-to-disk).

llimllib9• 14 years ago

works well in my experience (I also have a beta laptop). I haven't pushed it very much, but sitting on my desk it sleeps when I want and wakes back up promptly.

I haven't traveled with it, so I can't be sure that it's handling the battery properly while asleep, but it seems to.

graue5• 14 years ago

This works perfectly for me on a 2012, 13" MacBook Air running Xubuntu 12.10. You can have your nice Mac hardware and run Linux too :)

tikhonj3• 14 years ago

Interestingly, sleep has been working perfectly on my Vaio Z-series, which is a laptop that (for various reasons) you would think would support Linux really poorly. I think the general state of Linux support has just improved on essentially every front in the recent past.

rbanffy• 14 years ago

Failed with me once, in 2006. None of my laptops since then had any issues with sleep.

bitbckt2• 14 years ago

Works great on my X1 Carbon.

mediocregopher2• 14 years ago

It's a bit funny.... the biggest problem I have with my current laptop and linux is that I can't get it to NOT sleep when I close the lid. No matter what I do it just wants to sleep. Seems to be the opposite of the problem everyone else has....

fdr• 14 years ago

There is a PPA containing a series of workarounds, fixes, and hacks maintained for this hardware in the partnership between Dell and Canonical:

https://launchpad.net/~canonical-hwe-team/+archive/sputnik-k...

Color me impressed, if it is kept up over a three year time scale minimum. Also, here's an example bug report resolved with a kernel fix: http://en.community.dell.com/techcenter/os-applications/f/46...

Use of Launchpad is preferred, though, and one can see open and closed bugs here: https://bugs.launchpad.net/dell-sputnik

albertzeyer3• 14 years ago

I totally don't get your display argument - how can a display with higher resolution and which can be brighter in any way be a disadvantage?

Also, but that might be subjective: 1366x768 would be way too less for me...

chimeracoder18• 14 years ago

> I totally don't get your display argument - how can a display with higher resolution and which can be brighter in any way be a disadvantage?

I'd rather not sideline this with a discussion about resolution and brightness, because frankly, it's one of those subjective, "try it yourself and see what works best for you" sort of things. In short, I view high brightness as a drawback, not a feature, and the resolution + font size is more important on OS X, where I have a much harder time getting everything to a reasonable size for me in concert.

I'm willing to bet none of that sounds familiar - as I said, it's one of those things where, if you have to ask, it's not an issue for you. All I can recommend in your case is that, if you're considering an XPS13, take look at one of the XPS13 models and seeing if that display works for you or not.

llimllib9• 14 years ago

I also am a beta tester for this laptop.

I use my retina macbook for everything, and have not found myself using the dell at all, even when traveling. I didn't consider bringing it because I like the Mac so much more.

It is really nice hardware, with the exception that the screen has a much narrower viewing angle than either my macbook or my wife's macbook air. Also the trackpad is not as smooth as my macbook's, and more frequently registers the wrong kind of click.

Ubuntu has worked very well, and seems to be completely supported.

I greatly prefer the mac hardware, and would recommend an Air over the Dell.

edit: since parent disclosed that he got 20% off, I'll disclose that I was very fortunate to receive one for free at a conference raffle.

notJim2• 14 years ago

Can you say more about why you prefer the Mac?

ekianjo• 14 years ago

Simple question but how do you get to be a beta tester for such products?

Surio5• 14 years ago

Please don't get me wrong or take it the wrong way,

But I just can't seem to get over the fact that you are obviously not a Linux person (you seem to have strong preferences and by the looks of it, you know well that you are very much a Mac person), who won a Linux laptop for free and hasn't used it at all.

Had you but magnanimously declined the offer and passed it on, someone else could have used it happily all along....

nextstep• 14 years ago

I have never found a trackpad that works as well as the trackpads on MacBooks.

antihero• 14 years ago

I desperately need a laptop for freelancing as my current one is falling apart and I can't afford to replace it at the moment. If you don't use yours, perhaps you could give me a discount or something?

pseut3• 14 years ago

Thanks for mentioning the keyboard, I use the Das Keyboard too and the (imo) terrible Mac keyboard has kept me from buying one for serious use. How much have you used Lenovo's laptops? Can you make a comparison to their keyboards?

Edit: the older Lenovo keyboards; reading more comments has informed me that Lenovo's using chiclet keyboards now too.

chimeracoder18• 14 years ago

> Can you make a comparison to [Lenovo's] keyboards?

The last time I used a Thinkpad was a couple of years ago, when I was working off of a friend's. I don't remember liking it much; I think this one is better, but to be entirely honest, that was ~2 years ago, so don't put much weight into that.

The main thing that distinguishes this keyboard from Apple's is that the keys aren't as flat - I'm used to tactile and auditory feedback on the Das Keyboard[1], and while neither Apple's nor Dell's keyboards provide this, having the indentations makes it slightly easier to type quickly (notice how the Das keyboards all have slight indendations too).

Also, the BIGGEST problem with Apple's keyboards for me is the 200ms delay hardcoded in the firmware for the Caps Lock key. I rebind Caps_Lock -> Escape for vim, and this frustrates me to no end.

At the end of the day, neither you nor I are ever going to be happy with any laptop keyboard, since they're all non-mechanical, but I think this as good as we're going to get.

[1] I have the "silent" (ie, still-audible) one at work and the regular (loud) one at home.

ineedtosleep• 14 years ago

I feel like I have to chime in whenever the newer Lenovo keyboards get mentioned: I've owned a T61 for over 6 years now and I bit the bullet and bought a W530 when it came out this year despite the complaints about the missing top row of keys and the chiclet-style keyboard.

It's been almost 6 months now and, honestly, these days when I got back to do stuff on my T61 it's a world of difference. The W530's key presses are much more substantial and have a better feel; the quality of the keys seem much better; and the seemingly awkward placement of they keys (excluding the Print Screen key) seem highly justified to me now. And more importantly, the chiclet-style keys are grew on me almost immediately.

I've used the MBA and other chiclet-style keys and the main difference to note is that the Lenovo keys are slightly concave. This, to me, makes the keys feel less chiclet-y and more normal, though they do have the visually noticeable spaces between each key. Compared to the MBA, the MBA's flat keys just don't feel right and I feel make typing less accurate.

hollerith• 14 years ago

I wouldn't lump all "chiclet" keyboards together. I really disliked Macbook keys (and I gave them a good long try) but the "chiclet" keys on my Logitech K750 are better than any non-mechanical keys I've used. I suspect that it helps that the K750's keys are slightly concave and (unlike Macbook keys) have the standard, .75-inch spacing between rows.

gst• 14 years ago

How robust is it? Does it use plastic or aluminum? How well does the trackpad work under Linux (e.g., does it detect that one finger is resting only resting on it, while you use the trackpad with another finger)?

cjdrake• 14 years ago

Did you ever compare the Dell device with other ultrabook hardware, such as Asus Zenbook, HP, etc? How does the Dell hardware compare?

chimeracoder18• 14 years ago

> Did you ever compare the Dell device with other ultrabook hardware, such as Asus Zenbook, HP, etc?

No other Ultrabooks, no, though I've owned both an HP Envy 14 and an HP Pavilion before that. Both always ran Linux well for me. I've tested out other Ultrabooks in the store (all running Windows), and the XPS13 was one of the ones I liked more, though I remember liking one of the Asus models too.

Other hardware may be fine; the big difference for me is the official support (even if I don't use it, it's nice to know it exists). The XPS13 hardware hasn't given me any reason to complain, but I'm also not very particular.

emehrkay2• 14 years ago

Can you post some pictures of it? Thanks

voltagex_• 14 years ago

I just think the resolution is too low for development work.

kragen2• 14 years ago

Does it require any proprietary software (drivers, firmware blobs) for all the hardware to work? I'd like to have a machine I can keep upgrading into the future.

1tsmeagain2• 14 years ago

LTE support is for 5 years. I have'nt kept laptops longer than that... they are functional to an extent, but newer better ones come along...

shmerl• 14 years ago

How are custom drivers set up there? I.e. can one use other distros there easily (let's say Debian or Fedora), or it's tied to that custom version of Ubuntu only?

samstokes• 14 years ago

I see it comes with Ubuntu 12.04 - did you try upgrading (or replacing) that with 12.10? I understand the appeal of the LTS versions, but I'd rather stay up to date, and I'd like to know if things continue to work well if you stray from the officially supported OS version.

shock• 14 years ago

How much battery life are you getting on it?

I'm also in the market for a linux ultrabook, but considering the price difference I'll prolly go with the samsung chromebook or even with the thinkpad x1 carbon (yes, I'd pay a lot for a better screen resolution/specs-wise).

chimeracoder18• 14 years ago

I mentioned this in another comment - I don't have an exact number, but I can take it to an all-day conference and use it normally without worrying, which is probably more indicative than "batter tests", anyway.

I was considering the Chromebook at one point, but I've heard mixed things about its support for ssh (connection reliability), so the Ultrabook seemed like a better choice even as a dumb remote terminal.

sergiotapia• 14 years ago

I remember owning a small laptop from Sotec. (Yes, Sotec, Google it; it's a brand that no longer exists!) I bought it in late '99 early '00 and it had this resolution.

I am not shitting you, I'll try to find an old CNET.com link for the review.

What is a laptop in this day and age coming with such low resolution?

nicholassmith3• 14 years ago

It's a good first attempt, but it's going to need some work. The screen is pretty bad, but the one thing that puts me off is pretty much any Dell I've used has had a terrible keyboard and trackpad, but I've not used one for a while now so I'm hoping they've fixed that for this.

meaty• 14 years ago

Overpriced and can't get in the UK by the looks. I think I'd just go Lenovo.

danso• 14 years ago

So what's the point of this, for Dell's bottom line? Even with the relatively steep price, a developer-focused laptop is not going to be a best-seller. And in a few years, how many of those driver developers are going to be fully-focused on updating software for a niche laptop?

As much as I wish it were the case, what developers adopt is not always what will be profitable to the masses. And this ends up biting developers in the end. My Macbook Air is good enough that I don't think I need to go back to Linux...and I can be relatively confident that even if Apple continues to screw with the OS, the Apple OS X user base is so massive that niceties like homebrew will be supported as long, if not longer, than the niceties for a developer-focused laptop.

berserkpi2• 14 years ago

Good. Linux driver support is a war almost won, yet, there are strange cases. So perhaps the emphasis the article does regarding this is... misleading.

Beyond that, seeing manufacturers making specific delivers for Linux is a nice symptom.

cnlwsu• 14 years ago

Cell phones shouldn't have better resolution then a 1500$ laptop. Period.

happywolf• 14 years ago

If Dell shows solid support behind this ultrabook, I would consider to get one. My attention would be on upgrade and support. I am over the age where I would be happy just because the new version Linux happened to run on my laptop. Too many times the next version would bring some incompatibilities and I had to search for patches, and recompile the kernel and Fuck it, I just want to get work done and the last thing I concern should be the OS. Just for cars I damn care less for what OS is running under the hood, the same should apply to computers. Full operations is a must, not by chance. Sorry for the language, frustrated to see the current state of Linux still in a mess in PC/laptop after 10+ years (I ran Linux-only in college circa 1998). Yes I am using a Mac now. Not because it rocks, at least it doesn't suck that much.

jwblackwell• 14 years ago

This is awesome to see more "native" Linux hardware coming out.

I'd love to be able to use Linux more, every time I've tried to make a switch though I've inevitably had to jump back to Windows because some bit of hardware just isn't compatible or working well enough.

hack_edu• 14 years ago

But does it provide multitouch comparable to OS X in execution and function? If so, I'd switch tomorrow.

sorges• 14 years ago

But you should still buy it with built-in Windows? naaahhh

lanna• 14 years ago

$1,549 for a 1366x768 display?!? And they say Macs are expensive?

makmanalp2• 14 years ago

The laptop itself looks great, but what are the opinions on the profile tool? Doesn't something like http://vagrantup.com/ with vubdle, pip, rubygems, apt make it obsolete?

Also, linux dev environments are finnicky because every developer has their own miniscule variant that drives them crazy if it doesn't exist. Pre-made dev environments seem like the antithesis of this.

Opinions?

edit: It seems I have slightly misunderstood. It seems more like chef-solo for dev tool configs.

jrussbowman• 14 years ago

I bought one of these laptops shortly after the whole sputnik ppa was launched to replace a stolen macbook.

I guess you can call me a beta tester, but I paid full price for the laptop at Best Buy so I could be up and running in a day after being robbed.

First couple weeks were annoying as the fixes for the cypress touchpad were not available. Once Dell got the patches in their kernel it's been a great laptop.

Physically I've found it easy to carry and handle. It looks great with the aluminum lid and carbon fiber bottom.

I'm a sysadmin, I generally prefer Linux. My one foray into apply with a 13in MBP left me knowing that I wasn't going to go back to Apple any way. I'm not going to compare OS's, I'm just someone happier with Linux.

I tried other Ubuntu variants with the laptop. Bodhi and Mint both installed fine, newer versions included the touchpad kernel updates from the main Ubuntu distribution so it worked out the box. I did end up installing the sputnik ppa and using that kernel to keep the brightness keys working. Over all I didn't have a lot of luck with e17 and volume/brightness at all. However, I'm not sure if that's the laptop or e17 as I haven't had luck with those on my workstation at work as well.

The resolution sucks. I mean, it's fine for doing some general web programming in python with a full screen tmux terminal and browser(s) in another virtual desktop. You need to start remote desktop to Windows servers and such and you really begin to hate the vertical resolution limit. I solved this by hooking it up to a monitor when working and using the laptop display as a second screen for email and such. Now that laptops are coming up with higher resolution screens by default I'll not get something that low ever again.

The specs on mine are 4GB RAM, core i5 (2 core + hyperthreading) and a 128GB SSD. Video on all of them in Intel HD3000 I believe. I don't do a lot of virtualization, I can see why they would increase the RAM and CPU for the developer edition if they expect developers to be spinning up VMs. I've never really taxed the memory on it with anything I do. Caveat I'm a sysadmin who plays around with developing websites with Python/Tornado on the side, I don't do a lot anyway. I believe I was able to soak the cpu pretty good playing with golang a few times.

The only issues I've really had with the laptop are the resolution of the laptop display and the fact it runs really hot playing Team Fortress 2 in the Steam for Linux Beta. CPU core temps reach over 190F regularly while playing and if you block airflow out the back it will shut down on you (learned that the hard way). Really makes me miss my Alienware M11x for gaming purposes.

Other issues I've had with laptops in the past have been hinges. I have yet to experience any issues with the hinges on this laptop.

Over all the resolution is the one knock I'd give the system for a developer system, especially with the developer edition having more memory and cpu that the model I have. If you already have a monitor and plan to use it for extended sessions with the laptop I think you'll find it great.

jiggy2011• 14 years ago

1366x768 , why oh why?

I don't care about whatever "cloud" software BS they've tacked on but if you're making a laptop for developers you should have north of 1000 pixels of vertical space.

Even 1280x1024 would be better.

klepra• 14 years ago

I didn't find any official information about battery life. Anyone know about that? Personally good power management is what I miss with linux, it seems that I can only get around 2/3 of battery life in Ubuntu comparing to Windows.

niels_olson4• 14 years ago

Wouldn't a budget-conscious hacker get a Samsung 550 Chromebook and load Ubuntu for $450? Or slog through the local electronics recyclers and get the equivalent for potentially even less?

If not on a budget, wouldn't you get a MacBook or a Lenovo?

Also, are these in a store where I can touch the hardware before dropping $1500?

I applaud Dell for making a go of it with Linux, targeting the right community, I just hope they get enough buyers to make better hardware for version 2.

CoffeeDregs• 14 years ago

On ultrabooks: This looks very nice, but I'm a TrackPoint guy, so, while I am excited to see the ultrabooks, I can't use these or MacBook Airs. I purchased a Lenovo X1 Carbon about 2 months ago. It has a TrackPoint and I can't recommend it highly enough. So if you're a Linux user looking for a great ultrabook, check out the X1 Carbon (but make sure to get the 8GB model...)

EDIT: obviously, the X1 Carbon doesn't have the same level of Ubuntu support, but the out-of-the-box experience is perfect.

marknutter• 14 years ago

Looks like a fantastic laptop. It's great to see the effect that Apple has had on laptop design over the past 10 years.

ForFreedom• 14 years ago

Why would I buy something that cost USD 15XX. I'll just get myself a macbook.

lambda• 14 years ago

> 1366x768 display resolution

Bleh. What's so "ultra" about such a lousy resolution?

drivebyacct23• 14 years ago

With a worthless screen resolution. I use a Galaxy Nexus, a Nexus 10 and a Korean 2560x1440 monitor. Using my 1440x900 13" MBA is already a slap in the eyeballs, and this is even worse.

It's a shame, I'd buy it in a second to be able to replace OS X with Ubuntu.

droithomme• 14 years ago

Is it the same situation with all Linux laptops that the vast majority of hardware peripherals for video and audio work don't work, or has that been solved?

I don't really need another terminal for accessing the web and email.

danboarder• 14 years ago

"... retains the pilot version's 1366x768 display resolution."

Why would Dell use such a low-resolution screen? My phone is higher resolution than this laptop. Visual information density is very useful to "devops" Dell is said to be targeting and hi-dpi enables this.

Linus Torvalds is right in saying we need a new standard (he is advocating for a new 2560x1600 laptop standard, see https://plus.google.com/+LinusTorvalds/posts/ByVPmsSeSEG ).

(edit - fixed resolution typo)

keidian• 14 years ago

Yeah, i stopped reading as soon as I saw what the resolution is. I have a current 13" (ASUS u36sd with more ram & a ssd I put in) and really, the screen is the only thing I dislike on my laptop now, which I've had for over a year now. Give me more pixels :(

reustle• 14 years ago

Although I also wish the resolution was higher, my current 13" macbook air is also 1366x768 so we can't necessarily knock them for a "low res".

winter_blue• 14 years ago

I just got a Dell Inspiron N5050 laptop (not from the US) that came pre-loaded with Ubuntu some time ago, and I have to say -- the Linux support is astounding.

Absolutely everything works. The integrated webcam, closing the lid putting it to sleep, the various built-in keyboard keys (for changing brightness, volume, ..), et cetra.

Can't say how happy I am with it. And it only cost $450. The specs are: Core i3-2570, 8GB DDR3, 320GB HDD, Intel HD 3000 Graphics (no discrete). The laptop looks and feels nice too.

znmeb• 14 years ago

Nice ... any chance of a 16 GB RAM model?

lvillani• 14 years ago

For those using other distributions than Ubuntu on their XPS13s, I am collecting the necessary kernel patches to get both the trackpad and backlight keys working here: http://lorenzo.villani.me/dell-xps13/

(Unfortunately, information to get this hardware working on other distributions is spread out across several web sites, git repositories and bug reports, that's why I created the page).

wissler• 14 years ago

There's no way I'd buy this given the "ultra" low screen resolution, but maybe that doesn't matter to some developers. They need to target a somewhat higher screen resolution than the MBA if they want to grab my attention.

JanezStupar• 14 years ago

This machine seems lame to me at best (1366x768? Really?).

I did a lot of shopping around about a month or two ago. There were only three serious contenders. Asus UX32VD, Sony Vaio Z 15 and Thinkpad X1 Carbon.

Out of this bunch, Thinkpad was out because of insane price in EU and because Asus had a better screen and massivelly better value. Sony didn't qualify because it felt cheap and I really dislike Sony as a company. So I the only real worthy computer was Asus UX32VD.

Running Ubuntu 12.10 I am super happy with it (although shame on Nvidia for not supporting Optimus on Linux). If I were buying a computer now, I would probably buy Asus U500 (15.4" and Quad Core CPU).

But I am still in market for a new Thinkpad, when Lenovo comes to its senses and releases something 14" with 1080 or 1200 resolution and Quad core CPU.

I have a feeling that next year the laptop market for developers will be awesome.

macco• 14 years ago

This is a great day for Ubuntu. The first Ubuntu is served on a top of the line product - not on cheap low end hardware. The Sputnik is even more expensive than the Win8 version

It's saying: Ubuntu, because it's better, not cheaper.

vostrocity• 14 years ago

Dell emailed me a number of times about this, but it never made sense to me personally. I adore Dell as a company, and the Dell Vostro laptop I bought in 2007 performs splendidly to this day running the Ubuntu I installed on it. The thing is, installing Ubuntu didn't take me too much effort in 2007, and it shouldn't today. Seeing as how they are targeting this Sputnik as a developer machine, almost everyone should be able fix up any quirks in a zip.

The pricing also doesn't make sense to me, but it may to some. I know some people, especially professionals who buy machines as part of their work expense, would willingly walk into an Apple store and buy a MacBook at its retail price. In that regard, this Ubuntu XPS 13 is not that out of line. However, in the Windows world, you'd have to be stupid to buy any computer at MSRP. In fact, it's pretty much not possible due to all the discounts thrown on. I've seen these XPS 13 Ultrabooks go down to $799 on the street, and that's with a nice Windows 8 license thrown in (and installed and configured nicely; you may not think this, but configuring up a clean Windows install onto a laptop can be easily as much of a pain as configuring a Linux install). You might not need Windows, but why not take it as a bonus even if you immediately throw Ubuntu onto the next partition? This option also means you're using the latest Ubuntu build instead of Dell's own channel based on LTS (could be a pro or con, but you could also opt for LTS yourself as well).

Canonical has the image that Dell uses for the XPS on this page: http://hwe.ubuntu.com/uds-q/dellxps/

All that said, however, I understand and applaud the idea of making a complete hardware/software package as seamless as a MacBook. I don't doubt this would make for a great option for consumers who want a smooth experience with Linux.

geekbri• 14 years ago

Has anybody tried using dual external monitors? That is a deal breaker for me.

grannyg00se3• 14 years ago

I'm missing the point of these laptops that focus on extreme weight reduction. Can someone chime in on the relative benefit of these more expensive yet compromised machines? They seem to compromise on cost and features for the sake of lower mass. But most of the time your laptop is sitting on a surface while you are working. You aren't working while holding it in your hands like you might be with a tablet. So why deal with a 12" or 13" screen when you can have a 15" or more and still carry it under your arm from your home to the coffee shop?

oconnore• 14 years ago

> You aren't working while holding it in your hands like you might be with a tablet.

Why not? I do this all the time. I also bike with it in my backpack, pick it up with one hand, toss it on my bed, hold it sideways to read a paper while laying down. And it's also dual core with 4GB of ram and a long battery life, where is the compromise?

I don't understand why you would put up with an unwieldy machine for such insignificant benefits in processing power and screen size.

grannyg00se3• 14 years ago

A regular laptop is fine in a backpack, holding with one hand, and tossing onto a bed. You could probably prop it up sideways and read a paper on it as well, although I'd probably use a tablet for that instead. I think your last sentence answers my question though.

cmccabe• 14 years ago

Small laptops are really valuable. You can take them on a plane in a carry-on bag and have more room in your bag. It doesn't hurt your back to carry them for a few blocks. You can even carry other things.

If you don't move your laptop, you should get a desktop.

grannyg00se3• 14 years ago

I move my laptop, but I don't hike 30km with it so I'm not hyper sensitive to weight. I can carry it multiple blocks in a backpack with other things just fine. I suppose if screen size and cost were complete non-issues, then I'd preference the lighter, smaller ultrabooks since there is no downside left.

zmmmmm• 14 years ago

Just another chiming in here with nerd rage at low screen resolutions these days.

Absolutely crazy to make a "developer" laptop that can't even display the full standard page size that web developers will target web pages to. The surface pro has more resolution. The Nexus 4 and Nexus 7 have nearly the same and the Nexus 10 is nearly double in each direction and all these Nexii are priced < $400.

lobo_tuerto• 14 years ago

I really liked what I read here: The Last PC Laptop (codinghorror.com)

http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4560423

Here is the feature list for this laptop:

* Retina-esque 1920x1080 resolution in an amazingly high quality 13.3" IPS display

* Intel's latest 17 watt Ivy Bridge processor with (finally!) decent integrated graphics

* 128 GB SSD with fast 6Gbps interface

* Just under 3 pounds

* Decent 6 hour runtime

* Classy brushed metal case and cover

scott00• 14 years ago

Interesting thing I noticed on the tech specs (http://www.dell.com/us/soho/p/xps-13-linux/pd.aspx and http://www.dell.com/us/p/xps-13-l321x-mlk/pd?~ck=mn) is the difference in battery life between Linux and Windows. IIRC Linux was 6:13, and Windows was 8:53. Thoughts anyone?

chj• 14 years ago

If you're working with text a lot, developer or writer, retina display is a must.

jimrandomh• 14 years ago

Ctrl+F, type "resolution". See that it's 1366x768. Close tab. Sorry, Dell; I'd love to buy from you, but you're not even trying.

bad_user• 14 years ago

Awesome. I really want one.

When will this be available?

ttflee• 14 years ago

According to my perl script, the count of word 'Mac'(including Macbook, macs, Macs, macbook, Macbooks) in this thread is 89 and that of 'linux'/'Linux' is 115, not including my own post.

ankitaggarwal• 14 years ago

Happy to see they came up with a beautiful, unique and slim design of laptop with a powerful configuration. Design is pretty different from macbooks, yet as elegant.

1tsmeagain2• 14 years ago

* are the keyboard keys backlit? * Does clicking the trackpad make a loud noise? What about regular keyboard clicks?

fulafel• 14 years ago

US-only though (maybe the title could be revised).

cblicious• 14 years ago

completely unintersting , 8 GB of RAM only, for a developer machine soldered onto the mainboard ?!?!

JohnHaugeland• 14 years ago

I can't even get Dell to honor my warranty on my traditional Windows laptop, extended warranty purchased, which died in under six months.

"Well supported."

cavilling_elite• 14 years ago

My biggest gripe about the ultrabook series is the dismal screen. I ended up purchasing an Asus Zenbook (1600x900) and lived with the quirky mouse issues (patches and such) until the newest kernel. Now Asus Zenbook Prime has upped the resolution to 1920x1080.

Hopefully enough people purchase this laptop for a gen2 to come out and by then hopefully 1600x900 or 1920x1080 on a 13.3" is the standard.

Dell releases powerful, well-supported Linux Ultrabook

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