European sentiments towards the US hit an all-time low

https://ecfr.eu/publication/home-alone-europeans-are-ready-to-defend-themselves/

by marcyb5st • 1 month ago

111 129 1 month ago

lyu072825• 1 month ago

Atlanticist polls are probably more interesting (if there even is such a thing) when considering which questions they didn't even ask, rather than the questions they asked confirming all the establishment positions anyway.

shevy-java3• 1 month ago

Would this make a difference though? The USA abandoned Europeans already before Trump. You only have to look at the polls. Thus, it makes sense to completely cut the ties, build up a nuclear arsenal and offset the mafia in Moscow. It makes no sense for Europeans to want to depend on the USA here; I have no idea who came up with that idea. Most likely the USA as it helped them project power. See how many bombing campaigns started from US bases in Germany, most famously from Ramstein.

CarlitosHighway2• 1 month ago

Of course. If the US builds military bases in your country, it profits THEM, not you.

lyu072825• 1 month ago

Well the establishment position in the EU is that Trump is an outlier and that relations will normalize once he is removed from power, then business as usual can continue. Beyond that broad agreement with US - EU alignment on foreign policy (NATO, Ukraine, Israel, Iran, China) must continue even under Trump. Trump is even seen as an opportunity to convince Europeans to increase its own "NATO compatible" military spending.

What I meant was it would be more interesting to see any opinions that conflict with that above establishment consensus. For example on negotiated settlement of the Ukraine war vs. continuing the forever war. Like where do Europeans disagree with the strategic interests of the US, do they really 100% align as this poll makes it appear? How is that possible?

somelamer567• 1 month ago

Is there an establishment in the room with us right now?

Let me know, because I want to make sure that I'm aligned with this mystical Western Atlantacist Anglo-Saxon (insert Russian propaganda snarl-word du jour) hive mind.

lyu072825• 1 month ago

To understand what I'm talking about listen to the WEF speech by Canadian PM Mark Carney from a few months ago,

https://youtu.be/izDAOvHz5Wc

musikele• 1 month ago

speaking about defending ourselves: there's a huge gap between "willing to defend" and "actually be able to defend" ourselves

CarlitosHighway2• 1 month ago

But we're now spending and working on this gap like crazy.

4gotunameagain• 1 month ago

And we will end up using those weapons against eachother, again.

As if we haven't seen that film before.

Or even worse, keep selling them to Israel as Germany is doing, because one genocide was not enough and two wrongs make a right.

shevy-java3• 1 month ago

I guess nobody disagrees that Europe needs to have a better footing with regards to both production and employment. But is there a real political will? It would require a nuclear arsenal and I don't really see many countries in the EU wanting to go that way. The only one who seem to want to go that route are Poland, and they know WHY they want nukes - see the history they have with Russia.

pjc506• 1 month ago

France has an independent nuclear deterrent.

I dunno, for decades the policy by most of the West has been (a) keep Germany from re-arming in case they start WW3 and (b) discourage nuclear proliferation by anyone, and now because the Americans have thrown security out the window in exchange for freedom to bully, we have to reverse course on both of those?

mschild• 1 month ago

France and UK have a nuclear arsenal. France specifically has said they are willing to extend their policy to cover other EU countries.

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cj4zlnezrl7o

mrtksn6• 1 month ago

Those are not different things, "willing to defend" is just the prerequisite of "actually be able to defend". Look at Ukraine, how weak they were and how good they defended themselves. Look at Iran, how resilient they are despite decades of sanctions and their shitty regime.

When things start moving people can move mountains, suddenly the unemployment goes to %0 like it happened with Russia, market forces get dominated by state forces, moats like network effect or IP go to the trash.

junaru2• 1 month ago

Look at Ukraine, how weak they were and how good they defended themselves.

How can you type such nonsense? Look at 2014 Crimean annexation - thats "how good they defended themselves" without western training and billions in weapon aid. After four years they have million plus dead but "this is fine" for the west.

scihuber10• 1 month ago

Ukraine is essentially acting as a human shield for the EU right now. My friends in the SBU/ National Guard are terrified, even though they haven’t even seen combat yet. They’re stationed in a city that’s essentially 50% Russian. Even a civilian could shoot them in the back.

scihuber10• 1 month ago

Psychologically, becoming a soldier will be difficult for everyone; if Russia launches an offensive against the EU, the regular army alone will not be enough.

Andrew_nenakhov3• 1 month ago

Yeah that Schrodinger Russia again: it is being stuck for years, unable to take some small village in Donetsk region, and simultaneously is a grave threat that looms over Europe, ready to quickly overrun their capital cities.

danaris3• 1 month ago

if Russia launches an offensive against the EU

With what?

Russia has been wringing itself out to find enough soldiers to continue the war in Ukraine, and while they haven't been driven out just yet, I think it would be somewhere between "a massive stretch" and "flat-out untrue" to say they're winning.

And by and large, the rest of Europe is farther away, has a much worse/less clear casus belli from Russia's point of view, and, crucially, is part of NATO, and thus will not be fighting alone (and yes, I know Ukraine is getting a lot of support from Europe, but support isn't the same as boots on the ground).

If Russia launches an offensive against the EU, there's a damn good chance that offensive boomerangs right back around into its face.

Markoff4• 1 month ago

By defending ourselves you mean defending my own family or being some pawn in politicians game dying for their wishes?

I am willing to defend my family.

I am certainly not even willing to defend ANY country just because local politicians are afraid of incoming new management, no matter whether it's my home country or country where I currently reside, I have no allegiance to any country, only to my family. Sadly majority of people are brainwashed, if there were more people like me there would be zero wars, just local crimes.

tim3338• 1 month ago

The history of not defending against incoming new management is not good for zero wars - google Sudetenland for example. If you want zero wars you're probably better being like Switzerland - defend your own country but don't go fighting abroad.

shevy-java3• 1 month ago

Europeans embrace self-reliance and are clear-eyed about Donald Trump—but do not expect a permanent break from the US.

That's a wrong analysis IMO. I think NATO as it was is completely dead. Europeans need a nuclear arsenal too (french and UK nukes are for those two countries only; that does not protect several hundred millions people). Russia is threatening escalation every day, including using nukes. Europeans need their own nukes here - relying on a corrupt orange man acting like a russian asset, is a losing strategy. Even having another guy act and roleplay as president, won't really change this fundamental problem.

soco• 1 month ago

For what is worth, France offered to extend its nuclear umbrella to protect other European countries, offer accepted by 9 countries so far. Okay it's not permanent, doesn't necessary mean deployments in those countries, but still things are moving and the direction is obvious.

tjpnz• 1 month ago

Europe also needs to be in a position where it can quickly deploy the anti-coercion instrument[0] should a foreign power interfere in elections or threaten territorial integrity. The last time it was on the table didn't give me confidence they could.

0: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Coercion_Instrument

scihuber10• 1 month ago

Russia is already influencing your elections through propaganda.

tim3338• 1 month ago

NATO is an alliance of 32 democracies. You have to expect those to elect duff leaders from time to time but the thing goes on.

seydor• 1 month ago

The interesting french delusion that donald is an outlier

thefz• 1 month ago

With access to Internet in my late teens came the exposure to an intellectual, cultured leftist America I did not know existed. Now 20 years later, it really does not exist anymore. The US is a business,not a country, and it hates its own citizens.

pjc506• 1 month ago

"X is a land of contrasts" is a cliche, but: America is a land of contrasts. It manages to have elements both of shining city on the hill and squalid banana republic (resource extraction economy with poor rule of law) adjacent to each other.

But yes, the main natural predator of Americans is other Americans.

TalkingCodeMonk3• 1 month ago

Those contrasts only exist among the general population, which Americas political class have not represented for generations.

Can you give any examples of major corporations who do not have a verifiable history of corruption or anti-consumer/worker actions, not named costco?

Can you name more than 10 politicians over the last 50 years who would be considered leftist in the rest of the Anglo world?

brightball3• 1 month ago

Not for this guy from Germany traveling across the US for the World Cup

https://x.com/freddyla7?s=21

pjc506• 1 month ago

In the UK this feels like the least popular world cup in years. Even after Russia and Qatar, it feels like more of a FIFA corruption circus.

brightball3• 1 month ago

That’s echoed on X. UK folks grumbling while tourist from other countries are having a blast.

LightBug13• 1 month ago

Yeah, fck that piece of sh ... this particular World Cup has about the same amount of value to me as the FIFA Peace Prize.

Macha• 1 month ago

I think its interesting that they Estonia has both the biggest swing against increasing defence spending (+23 to +1, from middle of the pack to second last), and the highest rate of blaming their own government for fuel prices. I wouldn’t have expected either result.

keiferski• 1 month ago

Kind of a misleading title, but an interesting article. It’s about the perception that Europeans have of the likelihood that the US could be relied upon in the event that someone attacks their EU country.

Some of these opinion polls are not particularly useful though, as for example Poland is frequently signing defense deals with the US. I’m not sure it’s all that relevant how much a western EU country feels about the prospect of being attacked, as I don’t see how Portugal or Spain or France are at much geopolitical risk compared to the eastern flank.

mejutoco• 1 month ago

It’s about the perception that Europeans have of the likelihood that the US could be relied upon in the event that someone attacks their EU country.

Look at the Denmark graph (adversarial going up). I do not think in that case it is about "the likelihood that the US could be relied upon in the event that someone attacks" but about the US itself doing that.

haritha-j• 1 month ago

One could argue B implies A :p

You can hardly expect the guy attacking you to have your back.

rob742• 1 month ago

It's also interesting that, while the "ally" curve is going down for all included countries, in some countries the "partner" (which is a weaker form of ally) curve is going up to partly compensate for that, while in others (mostly southern European, plus Switzerland and, of course, Denmark), it's also going down.

flohofwoe2• 1 month ago

as for example Poland is frequently signing defense deals with the US

The current US administration has made it very clear over and over again that deals, contracts and agreements don't mean shit to them.

kstenerud• 1 month ago

Worryingly, European populists are espousing more assertively anti-Ukrainian views. Viktor Orban focused his unsuccessful election campaign to remain Hungarian prime minister on that theme. Meanwhile ECFR’s polling shows that voters of the far-right Freedom Party in Austria (FPÖ), the AfD in Germany, two far-right parties in Poland, and the governing and populist Progressive Bulgaria all see Ukraine as chiefly a “rival” or “adversary”.

Yes, because Russia's propaganda, espionage and corruption arm has been focusing on the far-right parties for the past two decades, breaking from their previous focus on the far left.

flohofwoe2• 1 month ago

Russia doesn't really differentiate between right and left when it comes to trying to destabilize Europe, they throw random shit against the wall and then focus on what sticks.

scihuber10• 1 month ago

You’re absolutely right, but I’d also add that Russia’s cultural right and left are essentially just the right wing by U.S. or European standards.

spwa45• 1 month ago

They used to though. Russian money was destined exclusively for the far-left before 2015 or so.

robotomir• 1 month ago

This is an oversimplification, I would not consider Orban far right and PB are more populist left if anything. And it's not all Russia's fault, in Bulgaria the pro-Russian government came into power after five years of self-proclaimed pro-Western politicians attacking the institutions for their own political gain. Well, it misfired.

pavlov• 1 month ago

So Orbán is not far-right, but somehow American far-right politicians and influencers like J.D. Vance and Tucker Carlson loved him as a shining example of the kind of nationalist illiberal state they want to create. Hmm.

wolvoleo2• 1 month ago

Well it's because of the overton window. In Holland when the fascist PVV joined the coalition it was a huge embarrassment for the other parties so they rebranded "extreme right" to "radical right" in all media so they didn't seem like sellouts. This happened literally the day they took office. Clearly a coordinated effort.

I'm sure the same applies to orban. People in power don't like to be called extreme so they rebrand to launder their ideology. It's still the same crap but now more hidden.

rainingmonkey• 1 month ago

Do you have any evidence that Russian espionage backed the far left before 2006?

spwa45• 1 month ago

Are you really disputing that the Soviet Union used to back the far left in the west monetarily? Seriously?

And no, they didn't really change who/how they backed for 20+ years.

rapsey• 1 month ago

Yes all russia's fault. It has nothing to do with european governments and the EU caring more about climate change than the economy. More about third worlders than local population. More about policing racism than violent crime. More about extending the war instead of ending it.

snowpid3• 1 month ago

"More about extending the war instead of ending it." Clearly this is Russia's fault. Russian troops could just leave Ukraine's international recognised area. Easy peasy.

elzbardico• 1 month ago

Stop with your DW diet please. It is fucking your brain.

The difference between modern german press and the soviet pravda, is that soviet citizens were aware the Pravda was propaganda.

Markoff4• 1 month ago

any country should see any other country as rival, no matter whether it is Ukraine, US, China, Germany or Uganda, it is just common sense, you dont need any propaganda for that, especially considering cheap unregulated UA products flooding European markets destroying farmers livelihood while EU farmers have to obey much stricter standard and are then unable to compete on price without subsidies (just to be clear I would prefer to abolish all subsidies)

comrade1234• 1 month ago

My neighbors (Switzerland) sometimes joke about how we're all going to be fighting Putin (Russian army) in the streets someday.

scihuber10• 1 month ago

I hope the EU population understands that Russia, the US, and China are essentially in a kind of military alliance, and that Ukraine is literally the only one openly opposing this alliance. If the EU wants Ukraine to shield it from drones, send more air defense systems. If the EU wants to end the war, give Ukraine more long-range missiles. If you want Ukraine to hold on, then spend money on rebuilding its infrastructure. But as we see, the EU is not rushing to help. It still supplies goods to Russia or buys from it because it benefits the EU’s economy. Ukraine is the EU’s only ally that will protect you. What other military threats does Europe face besides Russia?

Andrew_nenakhov3• 1 month ago

Russia, the US, and China are essentially in a kind of military alliance, and that Ukraine is literally the only one openly opposing this alliance.

This is highly delusional. Don't you think that if the US and Russia were an alliance, the US would provide intelligence and communication to Russia, and not to Ukraine?

scihuber10• 1 month ago

Because the U.S. has reached an agreement with China and Russia regarding the wars they will wage in the near future, so as not to interfere in each other’s affairs. I realize this is a stretch to call it an alliance, but it’s “kind of a military alliance.” This doesn’t mean the U.S., Russia, and China won’t keep each other in check; it’s simply a matter of spheres of influence.

tim3338• 1 month ago

I think it's more they lean towards the 'great powers' viewpoint that they are great and so have the right to bully smaller countries near them.

rsynnott2• 1 month ago

Worryingly, European populists are espousing more assertively anti-Ukrainian views. Viktor Orban focused his unsuccessful election campaign to remain Hungarian prime minister on that theme. Meanwhile ECFR’s polling shows that voters of the far-right Freedom Party in Austria (FPÖ), the AfD in Germany, two far-right parties in Poland, and the governing and populist Progressive Bulgaria all see Ukraine as chiefly a “rival” or “adversary”.

Of course, note that Orban _lost_. I suspect that the far-right's Putin-fetishism is a marketing mistake on their part; "Russia is good, actually" may resonate with their base but is a very hard sell to anyone else.

Markoff4• 1 month ago

Of course, note that Orban _lost_.

...to a former member of his party Magyar, who was his colleague 2 years ago in 2024. It's amusing how some people see Magyar as some big change coming to Hungary after Orban.

I don't think anyone genuinely likes Russia, it's more about stop pretending we suddenly like Ukraine, you know you can dislike them both at same time, right?

tim3338• 1 month ago

Magyar is a big change. It's down to not being an Putin employee.

rsynnott2• 1 month ago

He seems not to be a Russian asset. That’s a big change.

satnhak2• 1 month ago

"Russia is good, actually" is a hard sell to anyone who has been indoctrinated by a lifetime of Western Russophobia. Is I think what you meant.

pjc506• 1 month ago

The Russian public are victims of Putin just as much as the Ukranians. This is almost all on him and his party apparatus, just as it was under Stalin.

andor• 1 month ago

Western influence isn't necessary. Eastern Europe has experienced the Soviet Union and doesn't want to go back.

Arodex• 1 month ago

Oh yeah, the West is so russophobic that Russian elites all sent their kids there to study and bought million-dollar villas and penthouses there...

tim3338• 1 month ago

anyone who has been indoctrinated by a lifetime of Western Russophobia

or who turns on the TV and sees which atrocity they've committed this week.

cosmicgadget3• 1 month ago

Technically true but it's also a hard sell to normal people who don't like wars of aggression, poisoning political opponents, and shooting down airliners.

tim3338• 1 month ago

I think the far-right's pro Putin stuff is much more down to the Russians willingness to give them money in various forms than anything to do with their voters preferences.

josefritzishere• 1 month ago

I think we all know why. No need to say his name.

cosmicgadget3• 1 month ago

Ammon McNeff

tim3338• 1 month ago

As a European I'd say my sentiments are low more towards Trump and friends. I imagine things with the the US will go back to normal once he leaves office.

_DeadFred_• 1 month ago

It's sad. We begged Europe to contribute more for years, they chose to laugh and make fun of our healthcare compared to theirs instead. Didn't have to go this way. Euro's being euros they'll blame us for it all instead of being introspective. They love to gripe at us about how bad we are/they don't share values with us/etc so they'll just say todays poor US behavior proves their point (ignoring their previous behavior that contributed to things/lead here).

They'll say we are corrupt/capitalist/evil yet they are the ones that refused to pay their share because they thought they didn't have to worry about the damage from their actions/choices. They undercut American businesses and legally tolerated practices like tax deductions for overseas bribes while the supposedly "evil capitalist" U.S. imposed criminal penalties for similar conduct. They negotiated reciprocal agreements, such as mutual recognition of aviation certifications, then failed to uphold them disadvantaging American companies.

Europe legally tolerated/profited from corruption for decades. Europe refused to uphold parts of its own agreements. Europe laughed when the U.S. raised these complaints. I'm not sure why Europe chose this path. My best guess is that it did so because America tolerated that behavior for so long they assumed there would never be consequences. Maybe they thought the US was stuck with whatever Europe chose to do.

It's like my British ex-friends that were surprised when I ended the relationship because all they wanted to do was gripe at me. I'm not spending money/hours cooking only to be treated miserably. If every interaction is just complaints and contempt while I'm expected to keep investing my time and effort eventually I gonna stop showing up.

--reactionary thoughts from an unthoughtful American. They are more reactionary than productive, and I wish I had different ones.

duxup• 1 month ago

Don’t even have to be non American to feel that way.

stasomatic2• 1 month ago

Who are these Europeans with these sentiments? I recently spent about 10 days in France and the UK, I saw no sentiment in gen pop, at least towards my own person. I also saw no AI anything anywhere, which was also very refreshing.

European sentiments towards the US hit an all-time low

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