Saudi Arabia implements electronic tracking system for women

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2012/11/22/saudi-arabia-implements-electronic-tracking-system-for-women/

by manuletroll • 14 years ago

176 121 14 years ago

mtgx• 14 years ago

"Women under male custody". Wow. I hadn't realized Saudi Arabia is so primitive. If the US Government is going to send them billions in aid (to buy weapons from US companies, and therefor indirectly subsidize them), can't it influence some of these decisions? Or does it prefer it when it's run by dictators?

Cieplak• 14 years ago

Even more ironic given that the Taliban's treatment of women is frequently used to justify the war in Afghanistan.

zalew3• 14 years ago

You'd be very surprised to notice how often locals give less of a crap about stuff that enrages the western blogger crowd, or how many non-Americans don't share the feeling US needs to stick their nose into every other country's internal affairs.

Don't be fooled, if the US didn't care their BFF Pahlavi murdered and tortured Iranians, you shouldn't expect they care about women rights or whatever in SA.

da_n• 14 years ago

You think it is only American bloggers who have a concern? That's nonsense. This is human rights, basic human rights. Women in Saudi are treated like pets, and it should be judged abhorrent by any (relatively) civilised society.

at-fates-hands• 14 years ago

>>>Don't be fooled, if the US didn't care their BFF Pahlavi murdered and tortured Iranians, you shouldn't expect they care about women rights or whatever in SA.

I always held a similar belief. I found it ironic to hear liberal women talking about a "war on women" by the GOP, but never seem to muster enough strength to do something about these incredible injustices women endure in Saudi Arabia.

saljam5• 14 years ago

Really? You think the US government cares about Saudi Arabian women? I don't think they're that benevolent.

And since when did the US send aid money to the Saudis? Last time I check their oil pumps were working.

zalew3• 14 years ago

US sends military aid to SA as a mean of protecting their interests in the region. SA is not exactly a friend with Iran and the US makes sure their pumps don't change ownership.

afterburner3• 14 years ago

Saudi Arabia is one of the most fundamentalist Islamic countries, not at the royalty level who rule the country, but at the imam and religious law level. There is a separate religious police, who's job it is to enforce the Qu'ran as interpreted by the strict imams. Only Afghanistan under Taliban rule was arguably worse in recent times.

Now, keeping all that in mind, what do you think the local population will think of the US telling them which parts of the Qu'ran to not obey (according to their interpretation)?

dmix• 14 years ago

> Now, keeping all that in mind, what do you think the local population will think of the US telling them which parts of the Qu'ran to not obey (according to their interpretation)?

Thank you for pointing this out.

Forcing countries to follow your views will likely provoke an opposite effect.

freshhawk4• 14 years ago

Yes, that would probably backfire horribly.

What could be done is just to remove all the financial, material and intelligence support that the US gives to that country.

jpatokal2• 14 years ago

The monarchy justifies its rule by showering the religious leadership with money and hiding their excesses with a veil of piety. This doesn't meant the Saudi people agree with it -- a large fraction of the Saudi population (I'd venture to say a majority, but there's really no way to tell) also finds the Wahhabi intepretation of sharia excessive, but they have no say in the matter.

citricsquid• 14 years ago

I was reading about Saudi Arabia earlier, it's quite a strange place (compared to some of the western world). Their royal family is especially interesting, they have something like $1 trillion USD to their names: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_of_Saud

w1ntermute• 14 years ago

And very close ties to the Bush family: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_of_Bush,_House_of_Saud

In Saudi Arabia, 95% of exports and 70% of government revenue come from oil, one of the big reasons I'm cheering on Musk/Tesla. Once oil is irrelevant, backwards religious bigots, from Saudi Arabia to Texas, will become irrelevant too.

arjunnarayan• 14 years ago

The United States sends them billions of dollars worth of arms, surveillance tech and other tools to oppress the Saudi populace. It does this (and has done this for many decades now) in order to keep the oil flowing.

In other words, it props up an illegitimate dictatorial family, and in turn they keep the oil flowing at a fairly stable and cheap price.

And now you wonder why young Sauds who are oppressed by this situation hate the United States? The people's oil is taken out of the ground by an illegitimate government propped up by the people who buy the oil at what they perceive to be below the fair price.

Make no mistake, the source of the problem is the United States.

waterlesscloud4• 14 years ago

No, the source of the problem is the local rulers. Sorry, they don't get to be absolved of responsibility for their actions. They make their own choices.

Turing_Machine6• 14 years ago

Make no mistake, the source of the problem is the United States.

Yes, you're quite right. There was absolutely no oppression of women in the region before the United States came on the scene, or before oil was discovered there.

(sarcasm, in case it's not clear)

legutierr• 14 years ago

To keep the oil flowing? No, I don't think that's the US's primary motivation. With so much money to be made, there is very little that could stop the oil flowing (think how quickly Iraq's oil came back online, even in the face of insurgency).

No, the main thing that the US has at stake is the fact that the petroleum markets are denominated in US currency. It is this fact above all others that makes the dollar the world's reserve currency, and it is what makes the US the world's economic hegemon.

As Meyer Rothschild said, "Give me control over a nation's currency and I don't care who makes the laws." Such is the case for the United States because of petrodollar, which is truly what is at stake in Saudi Arabia.

pknerd2• 14 years ago

_Women under male custody_

Ironically US could not elect it's first Women President yet. On contrary several Muslim states had a female PM/President.

jrogers65• 14 years ago

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Covert_United_States_foreign_re...

The US has made a solid and consistent habit of supporting very distasteful governments in order to profit from them. This has been happening for almost a century now. The propaganda is so well crafted that most people do not notice the fact.

jamesbrennan• 14 years ago

This is such a disappointing use of technology.

saljam5• 14 years ago

I don't really see the point of this, given that women and non-adults can't cross a border anyway without a signed permit from their father or husband. I'm guessing this text message system works for children too.

shinratdr• 14 years ago

http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4821675

namank• 14 years ago

How are they tracking the women? Phones?

Sounds like the couple that got the text wasn't even aware of the service to begin with.

saljam5• 14 years ago

No, it's nowhere near as high tech as the article makes it sound. In contrast to how it works in the UK for example, in Saudi Arabia you have to go through passport control whenever you leave the country. This new system checks if the person leaving is a child or a woman and texts their father's or husband's phone number if they have it registered. They can find that information because it's all part of the ID system that's been implemented for decades.

mnemonicsloth• 14 years ago

Obviously this is because so many Saudi women are ninjas.

mcantelon• 14 years ago

Note that the US and Canada governments, despite their posturing about the Taliban's abuse of women, are very friendly with Saudi Arabia.

alan_cx• 14 years ago

So, from a story about tracking kids in a US school to tracking women in Saudi. See where this leads?

kamaal• 14 years ago

Religious extremism can be very convincing when you are into it. The problem is very similar to the editor religion. Unless you are shown the other part of the world you may never realize the futility of your ideology and actions.

Saudi Arabia is a Monarchy, frankly speaking the monarchy should/would have collapsed long time back if not the for the systematic information control and low ball offers made by the royal family to the citizens. The Saudi Regime survives on creating a useless welfare state, fueling religious passion and creating things like the religious police, and then of course providing some good facilities at the Islamic holy sites.

What they provide to the their citizens is actually nothing in front of what they steal. The current king abdullah's father had some tens of wives, from which he had tens of kids. The family's strength is well placed at some 15,000 members currently. They are almost growing at a near exponential rate. The problem is each member of the family sort of demands a share of the pie, and its quite well known that much of wealth of the nation is shared among the members of the Saud Family. With so many thousands of them being present, to prevent a break down and rebellion among family members, most government high posts, money making job positions, contracts and anything of financial significance always goes to the saud family members.

The family also has very close ties to a religious family called Al-Sheik. And they often marry among each other to preserve their trust and dependency on each other. Apart from that it is believed, the saud family members also marry among other clans and tribes to keep them in picture too.

The common masses, are well made to believe they are living under a generous king whose duties extend beyond that of state matters and also include doing the holy work of god.

mkhattab4• 14 years ago

Interesting that what you described is reminiscent of the Jahiliyyah. Al Saud, in this context, reminds me of Quraysh.

FaddiCat• 14 years ago

> Interesting that what you described is reminiscent of the Jahiliyyah

In what way?

rorrr2• 14 years ago

> Unless you are shown the other part of the world you may never realize the futility of your ideology and actions

Exactly. If you think christianity is any better, I've got news for you:

http://www.towleroad.com/2012/05/nc-pastor-wants-to-build-el...

pdeuchler• 14 years ago

Of course, because one loon is easily equated with the entire Christian base.

Also notice how the parent never mentioned "Islam". Please don't start a fight that doesn't belong here.

tomjen3• 14 years ago

How dare you assume people here are Christian?

We actually have a brain.

gokhan• 14 years ago

> Saudi Arabia is a Monarchy, frankly speaking the monarchy should/would have collapsed long time back if not the for the systematic information control and low ball offers made by the royal family to the citizens.

Don't forget unquestioned support from western governments.

zerostar072• 14 years ago

OTOH, the west would probably support any kind of stable government there. KSA doesn't have seem to have much else other than oil, so they would have to cooperate as well. Foreign support may provide credentials to the ruling family, but in the end it's the citizens (or in their case, subjects) that define their collective fate.

tokenadult• 14 years ago

Don't forget unquestioned support from western governments.

The support has not always been "unquestioned." Trade and normal diplomatic relations with the Saudi monarchy has never implied agreement with its position on Jewish settlement in Israel, for example. The 1975 cover article in Harper's magazine "Seizing Arab Oil" by "Miles Ignotus" (Latin for "unknown soldier," a pen name for a State Deparatment official who later was revealed to be Henry Kissinger) was part of a public warning to Saudi Arabia that it couldn't do just whatever it pleased and still expect the normal give-and-take of friendly diplomatic relations.

http://www.sfgate.com/politics/article/Document-reveals-Nixo...

Saudi Arabia hasn't been invaded, while Iraq has,

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2003/03/thirty-year-itch

mostly because the national regime there balances its interests and desires with the interests and desires of other national governments that have the power to seize its source of national power: low-cost petroleum production. The domestic policies of Saudi Arabia look horrifically backward to me, but they are changing,

http://www.latimes.com/business/money/la-fi-mo-paris-hilton-...

and pushing for more liberalization more of the time is something that Western countries increasingly see as an expedient thing to do with other countries (and themselves!) as the world grows smaller and more interconnected.

fatihdonmez• 14 years ago

they're also vahabi which is very extremist part of islamic nation so it's not quite suprising actually. As you see if an islamic country which has a solid relationship with western countries(money, petrol, strategic position in middle east), event they have monarchy, even they're degenerated, they don't need to be forced by USA, EU to have a democracy which others, Iraq, Syria already are having. God bless America

bitcartel• 14 years ago

Saudi Arabia isn't quite as bad as Medieval England, where you could be hung, drawn and quartered (a horrific way to exit this world), but pretty damn close...

Man publicly beheaded in a Saudi Arabian car park for being a 'sorcerer' : http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2055636/Sudanese-man...

Saudi Arabian man beheaded and crucified... his severed head was then sewn back on to his body, which was later hung from a pole in a public place: http://www.amnesty.org/en/news-and-updates/saudi-arabian-man...

A British male nurse was arrested and savagely battered in Saudi Arabia for being gay — then warned he faced death by beheading: http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/3503178/Execution-...

ramgorur3• 14 years ago

Just wondering could these people make a single tracking device of their own.

saljam5• 14 years ago

Well, I'm an Arab, and I can. What's your point?

ramgorur3• 14 years ago

congrats!!

PedroBatista• 14 years ago

I just love the supreme amount of xenophobia an arrogance packed in the expression "these people".

ramgorur3• 14 years ago

yes, you got it almost right, but my above comment does not actually involve any "xenophobism" or "arrogance", rather it is "disgust". I am not arab, but somewhat closely related.

I was just wondering when children are dying in a place that is not very far from their main land, but their goverment is busy tagging their women -- I think they should focus on more "important" issue. Hope you got my point.

jmedwards• 14 years ago

I'm trying to remember that quotation I've stolen and hatcheted this from:

Bombs and tanks don't scare these folks, but a girl with a book does.

Tipzntrix• 14 years ago

This was when the Pakistani girl was shot for displaying "Western beliefs" by going to school

jpatokal2• 14 years ago

Oddly enough, this represents progress of a sort. Until fairly recently, Saudi women did not have identity numbers or cards, effectively meaning that they could be murdered by relatives with no repercussions.

http://www.victorhanson.com/articles/burton022005.html

Wingman4l7• 14 years ago

Chilling.

uzair88• 14 years ago

I can't make up my mind what's worse...KSA tracking women or France telling them what they can and can't wear

astrobe_• 14 years ago

This is a ludicrous distortion of facts. French law only forbid some kind of dressing. Furthermore, it was done in the name of women's rights and dignity, pretty much the opposite of KSA.

zerostar072• 14 years ago

Hint: it's #1. The women of france, as part of the population, voted for what they can't wear (not what they can) as a tiny sacrifice for the greater good. Superficial comparisons are always misleading

mikeash• 14 years ago

Try harder.

surrealize• 14 years ago

As an onion headline, it would have been hilarious. As a real story, it's scary as hell.

pknerd2• 14 years ago

Most Probably Saudi government will not need to come up with such steps like US government to safegaud American women?

http://www.womenshealth.gov/violence-against-women/types-of-...

jasonlingx• 14 years ago

"Electronic tracking system for women"? You mean passports?

axyjo• 14 years ago

Other countries in the area have had this for a while. For example, the United Arab Emirates sends out text messages when any dependant enters or leaves the country.

ChrisNorstrom• 14 years ago

I always thought that advancing technology would move humanity towards freedom from oppression. Turns out, the oppressors simply adjusted their tactics to use technology against freedom.

This just made me realize: 1) a tool's just a tool, no matter how immaculate. 2) Never trust the user. 3) Don't give concentrated power to one group of people. 4) Beware the 1st rule of nature & evolution: The aggressive will dominate the passive.

ZoFreX• 14 years ago

"To every man is given the key to the gates of heaven; the same key opens the gates of hell." - Buddhist proverb, via Richard Feynman

jschuur• 14 years ago

Some additional information on this, including how the system has been in place since 2010, with the recent change being that you're now (somehow) getting text messages without registering your mobile number:

http://riyadhbureau.com/blog/2012/11/saudi-women-tracking

Mordor• 14 years ago

They should pass laws to emancipate dogs in the West - your move Saudi.

nova• 14 years ago

That's truly horrible.

I'm glad that our civilized governments would avoid such blatant sexism and instead mandate electronic tracking for all citizens, irrespective of gender. For our protection.

skeltoac• 14 years ago

Is anyone in San Antonio planning to print this article and hand it to the principals of John Jay High School and Jay Science & Engineering Academy?

Saudi Arabia implements electronic tracking system for women

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