Germany to ban Huawei from future 6G network

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2025-11-13/germany-to-ban-huawei-from-future-6g-network-in-sovereignty-push

by teleforce • 8 months ago

233 170 8 months ago

bloomberg.com

jusonce56789• 8 months ago

Well, people will buy Huawei routers at home anyway.

wnevets• 8 months ago

Is that commonplace in Germany?

mschuster912• 8 months ago

Sadly yes, cheap crap tends to be Huawei. Everyone with a modicum of technical understanding goes for a Fritzbox though.

sunaookami2• 8 months ago

No, nobody in Germany uses Huawei routers. All big ISPs provide FRITZ!Boxes.

pelasaco• 8 months ago

TBH the solar stack from Huawei, Slim modular batteries and Inverter are pretty solid. https://solar.huawei.com/en/products/luna2000-5-10-15-s0/

juliusceasar2• 8 months ago

Better late than never.

China has so many anti-Foreigner laws for doing business in China.

West has made China rich and powerful in exchange for cheap labour.

NoiseBert692• 8 months ago

I'd more say: they made clear rules if you want to play business in China.

Europe never set any boundaries. Honestly our fault.

lazyeye• 8 months ago

Our leaders in the West have been very naive. Also the Chinese "elite capture" program has been very effective.

tharne2• 8 months ago

The only rule the Chinese play by is, "It's only immoral if you get caught".

ta126534214• 8 months ago

Well, as European, i have to clearly state - unfortunately - this is only because of what happened in the 20th century: WWII. This "event" changed somehow the psychology, not allowing the EU to "stand up straight with our shoulders back".

Unfortunately. With around 500m customers, we could be powerful. But we arent: Stumbling upon our own feeds.

juliusceasar2• 8 months ago

Now EU is making clear rules against China. EU should apply exactly the same laws against Chinese like Chinese do against foreigners.

China shouldn't complain, especially don't bitch about racism.

like_any_other2• 8 months ago

they made clear rules if you want to play business in China.

Not really:

https://www.hudson.org/technology/china-ignores-rule-of-law-...

Apple CEO Tim Cook "secretly" signed an agreement worth more than $275 billion with Chinese officials, promising that Apple would help to develop China's economy and technological capabilities - https://www.macrumors.com/2021/12/07/apple-ceo-tim-cook-secr...

anonporridge4• 8 months ago

The rise of China has done a lot to destroy the neoliberal, globalist dream.

Letting them cheat the globalist system (e.g. violating IP laws, human rights violations, Uyghur/Tibetan genocide) may have been fine when they were desperately poor, but there was always an implicit assumption that they would eventually start playing by the rules and culturally liberalize. But they're not. How can we hold onto ideals like "diversity is our strength" and open borders are good when China is kicking ass and threatening the balance of power as an insular ethnostate with one of the lowest rates of immigrants on the planet?

And now they're growing to a power level that threatens to rival the US and its authority to police this global system we've created. That isn't stable, and the west would be insane to not shut China out and take a step back from our open, globalist ideals until we sort out this geopolitical game of thrones.

jquery2• 8 months ago

No, just no. I get where you’re coming from, but I disagree in the strongest terms that copying China is the way forward. Closed, centralized models can scale quickly, as China did, but open models generate more frontier innovation and resilience. Iirc, nearly half of our unicorns have immigrant founders.

Sure, let’s harden IP and other trade laws, and punish China for violations (start treating them as an adult, a nation peer, instead of a rowdy child). But giving up our strategic advantage because China was able to semi-copy-us without having that advantage would be a huge mistake imo. I’m not saying America doesn’t need major changes, but I don’t think the way forward is to close our borders to global talent. Instead, let’s take advantage of our superpower status to implement UHC and UBI, to make our nation even more attractive to talented immigrants.

coliveira7• 8 months ago

So this shows how much the West considers liberalism and open markets to be its "values" when they throw that completely away when they're economically threatened. This tells me that in hardship is when people show their true colors. The money is the true "value", everything else is just a side show.

croes2• 8 months ago

Letting them cheat the globalist system

They didn’t cheat, we did.

China didn’t force the west to make them their workbench.

China isn’t the first authoritarian country the western industry loved as workforce.

No human wasn’t a negative, it was one of the main selling points.

roenxi• 8 months ago

But the IP laws are visibly stupid, their role in the system is prevent success stories like China where some plucky upstart vaults to the forefront of the industrial world and drags a billion people out of poverty. The response to China achieving such success by ignoring IP laws should be to recognise the laws have been disasters and then to release the limits worst of the limits they impose on Western innovators.

A huge part of the software industry is there because of explicit GPL-style agreements defang the intent of IP laws while working inside the legal requirements they impose. The west should allow good ideas to be deployed in its own industrial processes.

ulfw• 8 months ago

And? So what?

Who forced 'the west' to do that? American and European companies lived well this way for decades. Buying from and selling to China has been highly profitable. In fact Germany is doing terribly right now as China is buying LESS than before. So the answer is to do... erm... even less trade?

Trumpian anti-globalist idiocy is growing in people's minds like a brain cancer

llboston• 8 months ago

Not just for business. All foreigners in China must register their stay with the local police. Large hotels handle the registration automatically through their electronic reporting systems. However, if you’re staying at a friend’s home or another private residence, you need to go to the local police station and register in person.

binarray20002• 8 months ago

It is exactly the same in every EU country. Foreigners get registered or must register in person.

avipars• 8 months ago

https://archive.li/18QJs

daneel_w3• 8 months ago

Good. Don't forget their incredibly affordable and attractive smartphones and the fact that they have almost completely captured the market for cellular transceiver chips used in USB mobile modems, both of which are excellent products for espionage and weaponization just like their cellular network equipment.

immibis• 8 months ago

If secure phones were legal, we'd be treating the modem chip as part of the hostile network - the application processor would encrypt all data before sending it.

RobotToaster• 8 months ago

And use American Cisco equipment with definitely no NSA backdoors instead?

RcouF1uZ4gsC• 8 months ago

That is called being on the other side of an airtight hatch (h/t Raymond Chen)

The US has troops, tanks, aircraft, even nuclear weapons stationed in German.

Sovereignty vis-a-vis the United States is not something on the table.

daneel_w3• 8 months ago

It's an east vs west thing.

qwertox3• 8 months ago

At the current rate the US will become an "even further east".

dragonelite4• 8 months ago

More like west vs rest of the world. Its cold war round 2 but this time its the west that is starting to hide behind a iron/cyber wall.

ojl• 8 months ago

I guess they will use Ericsson and Nokia equipment instead.

izacus2• 8 months ago

More expensive US Cisco equipment, at least Trump will be happy for it.

culi3• 8 months ago

The article states that they're pushing for independence from American tech as well

jiehong• 8 months ago

Which company will design and make 6G telco hardware in Germany?

I guess it will be 3/4/5G for a while, until they can someday cover the country just barely, and then 6G a decade and half later than everyone else (or is it by giving up sovereignty by buying US stuff instead?)

Sorry for being hopeless, but Germany has been very good at proving its inability to fix telco issues (or its train issues…).

sabjut• 8 months ago

Both Nokia (Finland) and Ericsson (Sweden) are great european alternatives. There is no need to reinvent the wheel in every EU country.

PeterStuer2• 8 months ago

Both Nokia and Ericsson have substantial Blackrock and Vanguard investment.

filloooo2• 8 months ago

This is retaliation for China recently phasing out European gears, which should be expected after Europe already banned Chinese gears in effect.

China for years has been allocating a share of the market to European gears, considering their domestic offerings are much cheaper, this was basically a reciprocal gesture, but it's not needed now for neither side.

Germany has been reluctant to completely remove its Huawei gears, but now that German cars are losing ground in China, they probably felt it's time to make the move.

tonetegeatinst• 8 months ago

I know some open 5G hardware project exists as I read about it about a month ago.

However I wonder if that will remain true with 6G, or if it will even be affordable.

mannanj• 8 months ago

Why 6g? who asked for it? I am content with 4g, 5g was a push as it was.

daneel_w3• 8 months ago

You and I are content with it, but these standards were never really about our individual and immediate experiences. It's about concurrent capacity for the growing grid as a whole.

Krasnol• 8 months ago

The grid must grow!

Zigurd3• 8 months ago

Unless you live in an urban environment where millimeter wave is competently deployed, you should curb your contentment with 5G. 6G sounds like a distraction from the lack of full 5G capabilities in most places.

PeterStuer2• 8 months ago

They are not wrong, but will they also ban Cisco in their "Sovereignty Push"?

anonporridge4• 8 months ago

Why should they?

The United States honors international IP law and doesn't cheat its way into threatening domestic production of other countries like China does.

tharne2• 8 months ago

Why should they?

Because bashing all things American while ignoring the threat posed by China is part of Europe's cultural DNA.

hiimkeks2• 8 months ago

https://archive.is/tDC0W

https://archive.is/IQyBG

and this was before the US elected an overt fascist

coliveira7• 8 months ago

doesn't cheat its way into threatening domestic production of other countries

Can you still say this with a straight face with everything that is coming from Washington?

steve1977• 8 months ago

Mentioning Cisco the context of honoring IP is a bit ironic: http://pdp10.nocrew.org/docs/cisco.html

input_sh• 8 months ago

The United States honors international IP law

May I introduce you to a somewhat recent concept people like to call AI.

thewebguyd• 8 months ago

Cisco complied with the NSA PRISM program (Snowden leaks) and were putting hardware backdoors in their hardware on request from the NSA, for hardware that was destined for overseas.

Sounds pretty untrustworthy to me.

kataklasm• 8 months ago

Ah yes, the country that has perfected industrial espionage... https://www.windpowermonthly.com/article/960011/trans-atlant...

esbranson2• 8 months ago

No. In the 2019 EU 5G Risk Assessment and the 2020 5G Toolbox, EU regulators gave three reasons why no US vendors triggered the "high-risk supplier" designation: US vendors weren't building the 5G core in Europe; EU regulators concluded that US law does allow compelled cooperation but accompanied by independent courts, adversarial process, and statutory limits; and no European regulator found technical-assurance failures in US vendors comparable to Huawei's.

If you don't like what the EU Commission is doing, you can vote them out. (Just kidding, no you can't.)

9cb14c1ec02• 8 months ago

Is 6G even a thing? From either a bandwidth demand perspective or a financial perspective? Every US wireless service just about bankrupted themselves rolling out 5G.

londons_explore• 8 months ago

Bandwidth demand is very much there...

My connection is 1.5 Gbits at 3am, but at peak time (7pm) I'm lucky to get 10 Mbits.

My network needs more capacity, and if 6G can offer it cheaper than building 5x more 5G masts, that's the route they'll have to take.

9cb14c1ec02• 8 months ago

I guess you must live in a much more heavily populated environment than I do. For myself, I'm still trying to figure out remote 5G IOT connectivity that doesn't require $1k in hardware. Non-consumer-grade 5G hardware is incredibly expensive still, which is why we are still deploying new 4G stuff.

throw0101c• 8 months ago

Is 6G even a thing?

Currently being researched:

6G aims to achieve higher data rates, lower latency, and greater energy efficiency than 5G.[8] Planned advances include new air interface designs, improved coding and modulation, and reconfigurable intelligent surfaces.[9] Research also explores integration with satellite, Wi-Fi, and non-terrestrial networks, as well as distributed edge computing for AR, VR, and AI applications.[10]

* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/6G

Zigurd3• 8 months ago

5G is a thing (5Ge excepted). 6G is aspirational and recycling use cases that go all the way back to 3G, like telesurgery. It's going to stay aspirational at least until 5G millimeter wave really works and can be widely deployed.

"According to the NGMN Alliance, 6G development should focus on demonstrable user needs and avoid unnecessary replacement of existing 5G radio access network equipment."

Incipient• 8 months ago

I don't get why Huawei gets specific hate? Shouldn't this equally apply to all Chinese vendors? I wouldn't expect any are less susceptible to government control?

zweifuss• 8 months ago

ZTE is also under scrutiny. The reason it's only Huawei and ZTE is that other Chinese providers are so insignificant that the telecoms will likely be able to replace the infrastructure themselves with spares or consolidation. However, in an emergency, the government would have to foot the bill for replacing Huawei/ZTE systems quickly, as the telecoms couldn't finance this and lack of capacity would mean very high prices.

hmm37• 8 months ago

Huawei at least is giving their source code to be scrutinized. What can be said of other vendors?

esbranson2• 8 months ago

Huawei simply accumulated a much more court-defensible paper trail—dominant presence, documented code issues, clearer evidence of state leverage, and heavier export-control exposure.

ge96• 8 months ago

Nortel

culi3• 8 months ago

Isn't the same true for American tech companies?

applied_heat2• 8 months ago

Huawei is often blamed for stealing information from Nortel that led to Nortel’s bankruptcy, both information about deals being made that let Huawei undercut them and technical product details that allowed Huawei to more easily be a substitute for Nortel products

DiogenesKynikos4• 8 months ago

Nortel collapsed long before Huawei even started competing outside of China in any serious way.

Nortel was severely hit by the bursting of the tech bubble, and then it got caught faking its financial figures. To blame that on Huawei is just a rewrite of history.

qwertox3• 8 months ago

Nothing here is about hate.

The concern comes from the legal environment these companies operate in. Any vendor that can be compelled by its government to cooperate in ways we can’t verify becomes a risk in critical infrastructure.

kwanbix• 8 months ago

Nice, in 2025, the world is a place where China can not be trusted, Russia can not be trusted, USA can not be trusted, Europe can not be trusted, etc.

We are very far from the "imagine all the people, living live in peace". I wonder why that is...

deepsun• 8 months ago

Nice how you put them all on one row.

How Isaac Asimov said in "Relativity of wrong":

"When people thought the earth was flat, they were wrong. When people thought the earth was spherical, they were wrong. But if you think that thinking the earth is spherical is just as wrong as thinking the earth is flat, then your view is wronger than both of them put together".

peterlk• 8 months ago

I’m working my way through “The End of the World is Just the Beginning”, and the main thesis is that everyone is preparing for demographic collapse. Global populations are declining almost everywhere, and this breaks the current global order. For example, what does the Chinese economy look like when all the people subject to the one child policy retire? What are the knock on effects of labor becoming more expensive almost everywhere? Can immigration solve this problem? What about the cultural friction of mass immigration? What happens to the places that everyone emigrates from?

The book basically argues that a significant amount of the world is headed for destabilization, and a destabilized world involves a lot less trust.

Side note: personally, I find the writing style and general tone to be hyperbolic, but some of the analysis is interesting.

ferguess_k• 8 months ago

I think we are already seeing this happening as it is not rocket science. US is not willing to be the world police anymore, because it is more and more expensive and some of the elites and many ordinary people feel that they are not gaining much as return.

So this left and is going to leave a lot of power gaps around the globes, and regional wars are picking up paces.

China is not particularly happy about this, because it is not ready and perhaps don't even want to be the next world police. US has always wanted China to share the responsibility but China is hesitant, which is understandable. Plus most of the people in China do not want a destabilized world, for now.

What I'd expect that China will gradually lose steam (actually people on HN already observed since like 10 years ago) when the people born in the 1970s/1980s retire. The officials who are resistant to the idea of expansion (because it damages their power base) are going to retire then. I'd expect the world to be a LOT hotter then. So that's about 2030-2040 and might come a bit earlier as the other players are already moving the pieces(e.g. Russia).

Not sure how to prepare my family through that time, though. I mean, it's just my guess, so my wife just rolls up her eye and wants to buy more houses/stocks because "houses/stocks always go up if you look at the chart". What I think is that the whole economical-geopolitico logic is going to change forever, and what is gone is gone for good. The next globalization is maybe 50 years away but we will never see it. From hindsight, I believe the 2008 financial crisis was the turning points. They managed to drag it for another 20 years, which I send my kudos.

Again, just my guess. I have always wronged in the pessimistic side so I hope I'm wrong this time again.

fodmap• 8 months ago

On the other hand Spain is using Huawei servers for almost all of their sensitive data. I wonder how the UE, and NATO, will react to that, because they're using Huawei for Social Security data, wiretapping data (SITEL), or even Intelligence Services data.

https://therecord.media/spain-awards-contracts-huawei-intell...

coliveira7• 8 months ago

And Spain will have 6G and all the niceties of telecom technology, while Germany will be stuck forever on 5G.

jojomodding2• 8 months ago

What makes you believe Huawei is the only company that will ever be able to build 6G hardware for the entire remaining lifetime of the universe?

amaccuish• 8 months ago

I get why you do so, but the European Union is always shortened to EU, not UE.

It would be as if I wrote a sentence, "The EWG was created by the treaty of Rome in 1957".

What is EWG? Oh yes its the German abbreviation for the EEC. But we're writing in English?

LtdJorge2• 8 months ago

“I think you meant EU instead of UE" sounds much less passive-aggressive.

tchalla2• 8 months ago

“We’ll discuss with industry what we can do, not only to make ourselves independent from China, but also for example independent from the USA, independent from the big tech companies,” Merz said.

Good to know it's not just China.

Merz ruled out fully decoupling from China, which is Germany’s second-biggest trading partner. “We can’t do that,” he said. “China can’t do that, but we can do it even less.”

And even better to know that the move is practical and understands who has the upper hand.

V__• 8 months ago

At the same time they are exploring the use of Palantir and want to use more of Microsofts 365 cloud.

This is all just talk. Either there are very real security concerns or someone lobbied heavily.

qwertox3• 8 months ago

This is the most incredible thing about it. As soon as Palantir has a foot in the the door of the authorities, only a disaster will be able to get them banned. And that disaster is way past the point of all the citizen's data getting collected and analyzed in real-time, because that's what our authorities want: full insights.

coliveira7• 8 months ago

Good to know it's not just China.

If you believe this I have a bridge to sell you. They're using this to hide the real reason for the move, which is to do Washington's bid, just like a good colony does.

tchalla2• 8 months ago

I won't be surprised if they do the Washington's bid. A few years ago, they wouldn't even consider it. By the time we all die, may be they will.

sunaookami2• 8 months ago

Yeah, it's just lip service until a democrat is president again. Same happened last time, it's like we time-travelled back to 2016, every argument is exactly the same in politics and media.

MangoToupe2• 8 months ago

So fun that the west is moving in a direction where we are subject to all the negatives of both capitalism (wealth consolidation) and socialism (lack of competition).

iso16312• 8 months ago

Unchecked capitalism inevitably leads to a lack of competition, it's just a matter of who gets the benefits.

The west went wrong when it stopped checking capitalism

outside1234• 8 months ago

Wonder if this was one of the secret requirements Trump made to avoid more draconian tariffs

rzerowan3• 8 months ago

Whose sovereignity though? And to replace it with what? As almost all 6G kit builds on 5G kit which is at most 40% Huawei FRAND patented.So whatever the path HW gets paid.

As an aside the whole OpenRAN debacle to replcae 5G kit seems to have peterd out after the initial hype. This move also ignores economies of scale - if the rest of the planet is on HW kit lowerig cost even with razor thin margins.The opps Nokia/Ericsson would either have to get massive subsidies to make financial sense or have a worse cost/benefit ratio.

One thing that gets glossed over though , is that the end user speeds/stability arent the main driver for 5/6G advancement (even though thats where all the marketing hype went) of course mobile device connectivity is growing and most users interaction online is primarily mobile. The big draw use case is the industrial and automation applications, where HW has a signifiant lead - from autiomated ports that aut load/unload to automated 'dark factories' that run without human intervention.Thats where the 'real' application is. The other use case for end users most likely will be in the autonomus cars and humanoid robots once they take off to any significant degree.

The only other way to make up the requisite volume from such an endeavor is one that Brussels was floating about a month ago. The Global Gateway funds to assist developing countries will come with ano HW clause.Might just be the final nail in the coffin in EU efforts to retain friends and influence with the rest of the planet.Whose main concern is living a modern life with the infra not requiring you mortgage your childrens future.

paganel• 8 months ago

The Global Gateway funds to assist developing countries will come with ano HW clause.

So they only want to "save" the Planet and its (presumably poorer) people if said poorer people acquiesce with their imperialistic reflexes, tale as old as time when it comes to the West.

But not sure why would they need the Global South's money for all of this? Aren't they, the magnificent West, big enough to shoulder almost any costs? Especially when it comes to "strategic" concerns. Or so they were saying.

rzerowan3• 8 months ago

The way most of these deals get structured especially when multicorps get involved is requiring the donor gov to guarantee the loan. Which gets routed to the recepient country, kickbacks get shaved off and re-routed back to the donor country. In this instance though my thinking is that for competeive pricing they would need volume , and prerequisite demand. This would be one way to generate that demand.In a way similar to the whole Tariff circus just more upfront.

CMay6• 8 months ago

You don't need a crazy fast connection for most of this automation stuff, because it has to be able to operate offline successfully to start with. Any dark factory should be running on its own wireless network anyway, not some cellular network. Who would do that? Even for a local wireless network, why would a Huawei router be any better?

To me, this was never about 5G or 6G. This was always about CCP controlled network hardware getting installed across the globe taking advantage of a natural iterative next step in network improvement which would be fine if the CCP wasn't absolutely psycho and immoral, but they seem to be. I'm sure there are many well-meaning and smart people who work at Huawei, but unfortunately any advantage a Chinese company gets in a foreign market becomes potentially leveraged as CCP advantage and control.

Many countries leverage their companies abroad if something is important enough, but few countries are as bold or blatant as China in this regard. Nobody is worried about most of these countries excessively abusing their influence abroad, because most care about their reputation. China is basically untrusted by all of its neighbors and doesn't seem to care about authentic reputation over manipulation. To them, "harmony" just seems like a way to misspell "control". Balance to them means nothing if they aren't the center of gravity.

For as old and advanced as China has become, it discarded all of its slow wisdom to be wrong as fast as possible. Can a country like that really be trusted? No, it can't. There isn't any country on Earth that can be trusted 100%, but the CCP is just far below the threshold of even tolerable levels of trust.

There is nothing 5G or 6G provides that is worth letting the CCP control your networks. Aside from just spying or hacking, imagine World War 3 comes around and the CCP just decides it's time to shut off all our networks? Trust is almost always more important than speed.

throawayonthe• 8 months ago

ignoring the weird moralizing about china, i think the parent comment is indeed referring to factories etc running their own 5G networks, that is very much a thing; ie aws used to have a private 5g offering, there are some open source projects, more that i can't remember

rzerowan3• 8 months ago

To steelman some of the points youve posted

You don't need a crazy fast connection for most of this automation stuff, because it has to be able to operate offline successfully to start with

As i mentioned youre looking at it as a consumer, this is industrial systems.Its not about speed primarily but latency - costs of deployment and maintainance.Your COTS router is not being installed wher million dollar assembly lines are operating, and for any serious business concern low opex/capex are first and foremost as well as reproducibility for expansion. KUKA robot arms are not being connected to TPlink routers.Together with the nature of Just-In-Time manufacturing , instant data for maintainance and logistics is crucial. Ditto for the automated ports [1]

There is nothing 5G or 6G provides that is worth letting the CCP control your networks. Aside from just spying or hacking

The two standards are currently accelerating both consumer and industrial changes worldwide.There are some networks in GlobalSouth countries whose speed/latencies will rival even those deployed in major US cities. Its a question of leveraging future infrstructure for productivity and improving living standards.

As for espionage and hacking that was stillthere even with dialup modems and fax machines.

Regarding countries using their leverage via multicorps abroad , you really should read up on the US CLOUD act, patriot act etc and cast a cursory glance at entities as benign sounding as Nestle(child slaves in W.Africa) Chiquita(Death Squads in S.America) PullMan Cigarettes (suing to block ati cigaratte ads in SE.Asia) ,not adding historical ones like Swiss CryptoAG.

In short multicorps are immoral profit extracting entities and on the global stage they act sometimes directly with their parent county to further whatever agandas they have. Thus far no Chinese companies have been implicated in any such shenanigans - as im pretty sure if it had happened it would be published about in banner headlines 24/7/365.

As it stands all the accusations are simply alllegations of a future scenario , which most people specify any sensible person should be able to mitigate with good security architecture and practices.

[1]https://govinsider.asia/intl-en/article/how-huaweis-5g-solut...

hearsathought2• 8 months ago

The good old ccp rule. You can tell how deranged a comment is by the number of times it has "ccp" in it.

CCP wasn't absolutely psycho and immoral

As opposed to what? The US? The EU? Germany? Seems like the CCP is the least psycho and immoral of the bunch.

but few countries are as bold or blatant as China in this regard.

China is the least bold and blatant out of the major players.

Nobody is worried about most of these countries excessively abusing their influence abroad

Everyone is. It's just that "those countries" are in no position to fight back against the US.

Trust is almost always more important than speed.

If trust was important, then germany woud choose "ccp's" huawei. After all, it's germany's "allies" that spy on them the most. And the "ccp" would win by providing the world with the most trustworthy network hardware.

LtdJorge2• 8 months ago

We could start treating Chinese patents with the same respect they treated the rest of the world’s, maybe.

7bit• 8 months ago

We could. But then we throw away the basis on how we treat European, Australian, Japanese, American, etc. patents.

You either respect patents or you don't. There is no middle ground.

maxdo• 8 months ago

Good attempt comrade. China + Russia + Iran fueling the war with Europe. They openly declare a war on way of living of western world . Sure , build critical infrastructure independently is insane.

ii41• 8 months ago

Isn't it the other way around? I mean, I keep seeing western people advertising that the ways of living in those countries are wrong and they must change, while I don't often see anyone urging western countries to change their way of living.

StopDisinfo910• 8 months ago

The Russia, China, and Iran axis doesn’t exist. That’s American propaganda linking together three countries it dislikes.

Iran has loose relations with both which are not dissimilar to the one it has with the EU. Its conflict is also fairly limited to Israel and the Middle East.

Meanwhile, Russia and China have an ambivalent relationship where they are key economic partners with complementary economies but have no official military alliance and are somewhat wary of each other as Russia fears a potential Chinese invasion.

hearsathought2• 8 months ago

China + Russia + Iran fueling the war with Europe.

It's the other way around. Europe fueling war with china + russia + iran.

It isn't china sending warships along german, british, european coastline. It wasn't russia that overthrew democracy in ukraine. And it isn't iran bombing europe.

They openly declare a war on way of living of western world .

No. You once again have it backwards. It's the western world declaring war on them. The genuine head scratcher is why china, russian and iran haven't formally joined forces to fight back.

wosined• 8 months ago

Does China enforce western patent laws?

dragonelite4• 8 months ago

This summer i was traveling through Germany and god fucking dam their telecommunication infrastructure is just 3rd world tier, so freaking bad. Constant signal loss, 5g was a rare sight etc.

0xbadcafebee• 8 months ago

All this is because they're afraid $COUNTRY inserted malware in the chips, right? So industry can solve this. Make a device that has all the hardware for networks, but without the chip. Make a simple hardware standard for the chip interface. Publish the standard.

Now any country can make a chip that plugs into the networking device. Just buy your own country's spyware-laden chip, plug it into the NID. Install your software in the NID, the same way you'd install Linux on an AMD vs Intel computer. Works for PCs; it can work for routers (they're all just computers). Choose open source or an expensive proproprietary OS. Choose open hardware or proprietary hardware. Let people assemble them from parts so they can choose their level of surveillance-avoidance.

And you're done. No more banning entire manufacturers; just ban those specific kinds of chips, but buy the cheap chinese hardware sans-chips. Feels a lot more sustainable than global instability and trade wars over what is essentially just a lack of design.

(I'm aware how specialized router hw/sw is, I worked for Cisco once upon a time. but it can all be abstracted. it's just not in the interest of corporate profits to do so; but at this point, i think ramping down the china-phobia and stabilizing trade is a bigger concern)

hereme8882• 8 months ago

Amazing to read in a site full of devs and cybersecurity experts how willing they are to use Huawei's tech despite all the international theft and security issues, some exposed, and but most of it kept under wraps until investigations are complete.

And some even shill the conspiracy that the NSA will install backdoors in US equipment... I would like to think it's Chinese agents at work, but most likely it's regular people.

For this reason I'm glad politicians are taking the initiative, despite the population's awareness of what Huawei really is. And sry but I don't have time to "prove it with irrefutable evidence" as some may demand. Plz spend your own time researching the facts.

hereme8882• 8 months ago

Even worse, apparently Huawei allows the CCP to daily update their nodes, lol.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pfuBdhPJAbU&t=798

corimaith2• 8 months ago

I feel that the majority in this thread are acting less in Europe's interests than effectively saying "fuck you" to Germany here for acting against China's interests. Or perhaps they're reaching as quickly as possible to blame everything on USA. But that's the consequence of letting outsiders into the conversation, everything has really turned into a "water armies", as defined by the Chinese themselves.

In any case, I do hope that outsiders in this thread realize this isn't indicative of what Westerners think, so as far much as what their enemies are thinking. Do you really think people like these who are so quick to mock Europe are really your friends?

fidotron• 8 months ago

The fundamental problem with the newer Huawei equipment is it's the best stuff. Others just aren't competing properly at all.

As the west detaches from China, for quite plausible security concerns, it's going to find it expensive on both ends: they will be paying more and getting less.

MagicMoonlight• 8 months ago

They just found kill switches in Chinese buses, so any Chinese network equipment is 100% guaranteed to be backdoored.

Who do you think hacks our hospitals? Who do you think attacks infrastructure? Some kid in Lebanon isn’t going to attack a hospital. We’re at war, everyone knows it but us.

burnt-resistor• 8 months ago

Wouldn't it be wiser, fairer, and less xenophobic/nationalistic appearing to simply require particular audit/compliance/certification requirements and then disallow nonconforming equipment/systems?

Because if something can't be sold under brand X specifically, then brand Y will be invented to circumvent it, hence it's a superficial and ineffective process to forbid a brand by name.

Rigorous audit and compliance processes should assure products are tested, supported, and hopefully minimize the risks of hostile anti-functionality.

Perhaps some key tech bits are so fundamental that they should be grown domestically without necessarily a huge profit motive to offer reliable components for strategic infrastructure.

Germany to ban Huawei from future 6G network

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