A Year of Telepathy

https://neuralink.com/blog/a-year-of-telepathy/

by julianh65 • 1 year ago

194 254 1 year ago

hexator• 1 year ago

Not mentioned at all is the failure rate, which back in May was reported by Ars to be 85% with the first patient, Noland. [1]

[1] https://arstechnica.com/science/2024/05/neuralink-to-implant...

OsrsNeedsf2P2• 1 year ago

This is 85% of the threads in the device failed, yet it was allegedly mitigated after a software update, and usage of Neurolink continued to climb for the patient, suggesting the device is still functional

InDubioProRubio3• 1 year ago

What about the scar tissue those implants generate? How did they avoid that?

kadushka• 1 year ago

I’m curious why for Noland and Alex the implant usage dropped in the fourth month?

_--__--__• 1 year ago

In both cases it looks more like a usage spike in the third month and then back to a pattern of roughly linear growth. Not sure if those spikes were related to updates to the neuralink itself or they just got really into a game/project/etc

walrus012• 1 year ago

I am extremely unlikely to ever allow anything even vaguely related to Elon Musk to implant something in my brain, or even to wear as completely noninvasive "through the skin" helmet or headband-like sensing device. Nevermind something with him as a founder.

ivraatiems• 1 year ago

If it was that or be paralyzed for the rest of your life, would you at least consider it?

I don't like Musk and I find Neuralink spooky in terms of their overall goals, but it's hard to deny how much this invention helps people.

ben_w10• 1 year ago

Given the security track record of software in general, not even specifically those of Musk's companies but more broadly zero-days in all the major platforms, I would worry about a scenario half way between the plot of the film Upgrade and the long-standing trope of using hypnosis to turn someone into an unwitting assassin: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Upgrade_(film)

jedimastert2• 1 year ago

Why should we believe that he is not just straight up a lying or hiding some kind of fatal flaw? He is intentionally and systematically dismantling any regulatory or enforcement bodies that would hold him accountable or investigate his claims

OsrsNeedsf2P2• 1 year ago

The article shows a video of Noland, paralyzed from the shoulders down, playing Polytopia. It's great to be fully able-bodied and mock Elon Musk, but for someone to go from using a mouth stylus to playing Polytopia via telepathy is very cool and should be celebrated.

walrus012• 1 year ago

There is more than one organization/company in the world working on human-computer assistive interfaces for the paralyzed. For instance:

https://www.news-medical.net/news/20230824/Brain-computer-in...

https://news.brown.edu/articles/2012/05/braingate2

https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/10.1161/STROKEAHA.123.037719

If you google "BCI brain computer interface paralyzed" you will find a wealth of researchers and organizations working on it which are not Neuralink.

bloopernova• 1 year ago

I'm reminded of The Diamond Age novel, where a character hears about someone who had an implant which was hacked. If I recall correctly, the hack caused the implant to display an advertisement in a different language at the edge of their vision.

That seems pretty benign compared to what a neural implant could be made to do to someone.

tialaramex• 1 year ago

In Iain M Banks' Culture novels there's a ship (the General Systems Vehicle "Grey Area", but most often called "Meatfucker" by other ships) which has converted its interior into a museum of torture devices. Lots of stuff we'd recognise, but one we wouldn't - a Neural Lace. Almost all Culture citizens have one, it's typically implanted in early adulthood and grows next to your brain. A Culture Citizen touring the museum is confused, why does the Grey Area have a Neural Lace ?

Well of course the device doesn't have to be programmed to be controlled by the host, does it ? Torture entirely by manipulating the compute substrate your mind runs on would be effective† and yet very easy to do... so this is in fact just another torture device.

† Effective in the sense that it would inflict needless misery on people, that's what torture is actually for, it's not an effective interrogation strategy and never has been.

marcus_holmes• 1 year ago

That seems pretty benign compared to what a neural implant could be made to do to someone.

Black Mirror: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Men_Against_Fire

just as an example

ben_w10• 1 year ago

"Mind virus" has a whole extra dimension when IoT is hardwired to your brain.

jdoe1337halo• 1 year ago

As much as I hate Musk, this brings a tear to my eyes seeing these disabled people regain autonomy and feel like a person again.

rezmason• 1 year ago

As much as I like regaining autonomy, we should hold back those tears until a patient's implant outlasts a product cycle. I can't find the article to link to, but there's an ongoing issue with tech companies producing assistive devices or prosthetics and obsoleting them when the company pivots, gets bought or goes under.

Corporate cyborg parts are an already-predicted nightmare, already taking place, unfolding in slow motion, and soon it will breach the sanctity of human thought.

blacksmith_tb• 1 year ago

I think that would be these eye implants[1].

1: https://spectrum.ieee.org/bionic-eye-obsolete

llm_trw2• 1 year ago

The simple solution is that all such devices must be submitted to a central government database and all blue prints, source code etc. will be released into the public domain is the company no longer supports the device or closes down.

some_random2• 1 year ago

Sure but that's a much more solvable problem!

sussmannbaka2• 1 year ago

The same disabled people whose hard earned rights are on the chopping block right now in the name of anti wokeness? I’ll say, taking away their ability to participate in society first, then selling it back to the richest of them is an ingenious business approach.

andsoitis6• 1 year ago

taking away their ability to participate in society first, then selling it back to the richest of them is an ingenious business approach.

That's not what is happening here. These tools (Neuralink and others) enable people who are disabled to participate more in society.

hall0ween• 1 year ago

I've been out of live neural recordings for about 3 years. While this is neat, it's my recollection that this is dated science...with better PR.

murderingmurloc• 1 year ago

Lex Fridman's interview with Noland and the doctors is a marathon 8.5 hours, but I highly recommend it for a deep dive into the process and results.[1]

[1] https://youtu.be/Kbk9BiPhm7o?si=g-MqcUcmS9sZhVdc

Ajedi32• 1 year ago

The interview with Noland at 6:48:59 was particularly interesting to me. Lots of details about what Neuralink is actually like to use in practice.

etchalon• 1 year ago

I wish I could trust this.

jedimastert2• 1 year ago

Honestly? Same. Musk is systematically dismantling essentially every regulatory and enforcement agency that could possibly hold him accountable if these things go sideways, accidentally or otherwise.

SimianSci4• 1 year ago

Dont.

until we have a solution to the problem that is Elon Musk, and potential future Elon Musks, this type of technology can only be a net negative to society.

Schiendelman2• 1 year ago

Henry Ford was a Nazi. Jeff Bezos bought the Washington Post and drove it into the ground.

I think basically any of the leaders who brought us the technology we are using today are cults of personality like this, we just forget about the ones that aren't contemporary. I have yet to see us grow without them.

discordance• 1 year ago

Between 2018 and 2022 "the company has tested on and killed at least 1,500 animals — over 280 sheep, pigs, and monkeys, as well as mice and rats." [0]

0: https://www.vox.com/future-perfect/2022/12/11/23500157/neura...

zensavona• 1 year ago

Being concerned about animal testing seems pretty silly coming from people who likely eat pigs, sheep and other intelligent animals every day, who likely lived in just as bad conditions if not worse their whole lives leading up to them becoming food.

I also eat meat, it just seems a bit ironic to me.

Veserv6• 1 year ago

You are ignoring the benefit side of a benefit-harm morality analysis.

Eating an animal at least ostensibly has positive value for the people doing so. However, there are plenty of forms of "animal testing" that confer zero positive value. For instance, testing the wrong compound or inserting the wrong implant confers zero benefit. Having improper controls, "testing" nonsensical theories, repeating stale results poorly, inadequate data collection, etc. are just a few ways a test procedure can be totally useless or even actively harmful.

This also ignores one of the other aspects of animal testing which is as a dry run or rehearsal for actual application. You do it right in animals so you are practiced at doing it right for when you need to do it right in humans. "Oh yeah, we royally screwed up in every rehearsal, but we will nail it in production." is not an acceptable approach. You look at the care taken during their practiced procedures on less critical subjects to determine if their practiced procedure is adequate for more critical subjects. A process that kills far more test subjects than others or achieves middling results relative to resource expenditure or that treats subjects as disposable for "advancing science" is not a process fit for human subjects. Assuming ingrained cultural process deficiencies will magically disappear when using changing subjects is foolish.

These are just some of the reasons why people eating a ridiculous number of animals does not and should not waive our invalidate concerns about animal testing procedure.

fulafel• 1 year ago

Taken seriously, this is a fallacy and a way of thinking that easily halts progress in making the world a better place. You can always use whataboutism to argue against any improvement on grounds that a consistent ethic would require you to improve several other things at once. Being this kind of silly on the way is fine.

(Also of course a lot of the critics don't eat meat, and it's also true that the rest of us should stop, starting from factory farmed meat)

Philpax4• 1 year ago

I'm pulling out my vegetarian pass to say, without hypocrisy, that Neuralink's animal testing record appears to be pretty horrific.

Timwi• 1 year ago

Right, but neither irony nor hypocrisy means that it's wrong. Murder is wrong and if a murderer on death row says that murder is wrong they are still correct.

foobiekr• 1 year ago

You should perhaps consider that most people would rather die than be tortured to death and perhaps we feel the same way about animals even if we eat meat - especially primates.

sangnoir3• 1 year ago

Being concerned about animal testing seems pretty silly coming from people who likely eat pigs

This is reductive and lacking any form of nuance. If I eat chicken, should I automatically be okay with heavily industrialized chicken farms, or even setting chickens alight for entertainment? Just because one evolved to be an omnivore doesn't mean one is okay with all forms of killing animals.

sneak3• 1 year ago

Would you prefer they do the R&D solely on humans? Or that they cease developing BCIs?

aziaziazi2• 1 year ago

Volontary humans over constrained animals? Sure!

Why would you cease developing BCIs? It’s not ethical to force another sentient being into biological R&D on their own body. OTOH there’s no problem to enroll someone to a dangerous mission if they’re truly voluntary and get a benefit from it.

lijok• 1 year ago

Between 2018 and 2022 I've probably consumed 1500 animals worth of products, and didn't hand 3 paralyzed people their autonomy back as a result, so I'd say Neuralink are doing just fine.

agos• 1 year ago

you consume more than one whole animal a day? you might want to cut down on that

fliglr• 1 year ago

Who cares. Do you want them to test on humans?

ArlenBales• 1 year ago

Give it time. Under President Musk it'll only be a matter of time until they invent a drug like the one used by Dr Cortazar's group in The Vital Abyss, eschewing ethics for scientific progression. I wouldn't be surprised if half the scientists under Musk's companies jump at the chance to use it, considering they still work for him while he dismantles American democracy (so their ethics are already questionable).

aziaziazi2• 1 year ago

Don’t you? They’ll need to do it sooner or later. The sooner - the less unwilling cobaye used.

drawkward4• 1 year ago

I hate Elon and refuse to support any of his business ventures; this, however, seems preferable to testing on humans.

some_random2• 1 year ago

I'm sorry but if you make me choose between 1,500 animals or improving the life of one single paralyzed human being, I am choosing the human every single time.

wazdra• 1 year ago

Am I the only one a bit disturbed by this whole communication ?

I mean, we all know helping disabled is not the end-game objective of neuralink. And right now, from a very cynical point of view, disabled people constitute a large reservoir of cobayes and free marketing for Neuralink

I don’t know how much has been invested in R&D on Neuralink, but I doubt we have ever invested that much money in any other technology to provide autonomy to the disabled.

And it is not perfectly clear to me that, for the sole prospect of helping paralysed people, Neuralink is the best way to go. It sure is the one that looks the coolest, but it’s going to be very expensive, hard to fix when something goes wrong, and it is also hard to trust. Those issues do not seem to be avoidable

Don’t get me wrong, I admire the huge QoL gain for the three patients. As individuals, they sure benefited from this. Idk if the same is true of the disabled as a social group

andsoitis6• 1 year ago

we all know helping disabled is not the end-game objective of neuralink.

Can you tell us more what you surmise we all think is the end-game objective?

golol• 1 year ago

powerful general BCI, FDVR, cyborg intelligence and so on. Elon Musk clearly stated this many times.

isoprophlex• 1 year ago

Jensen Huang becoming a sandworm from Dune, only he keeps shitting out mountains of NVIDIA cards instead of spice. Elon Musk and the rest of the technorati using neuralink to upload themselves into said mountain of GPUs to become immortal.

computerthings7• 1 year ago

Someone who has genuine concern for helping people doesn't cut medical programs in fly-by-night operations to leave people with medical devices in their body and whatnot. Empathy and caring about suffering can be ruled out.

Generally speaking, the demo is always about finding the green ball on top of a red cube, or the person who went missing in a land slide, but what sells it is detecting and aiming at the dissident hiding under a truck.

And isn't it weird how "think of the children" is always ridiculed but "think of the paralyzed etc." is just fine? I've seen it countless times in the last decades. Just recently when I said on here I want "AI" art to be marked as "AI" made and someone claimed I don't care about the people who have Parkinson's and can't hold a brush, but wouldn't answer why we can't mark it anyway. It's not the people with Parkinson's that want to pass of their creations as hand-made. They're just getting used.

Sure, paralyzed people would love to be able to control a cursor with their mind etc., but even more than that they don't want cuts to social programs, that enable them a dignified life beyond "making them as functional as a healthy person", to allow tax cuts for the super rich. They want friends to have time for them instead of working 3 jobs, that sort of stuff. But Musk and his spiritual brethren are gleefully moving in the opposite direction, as fast and ruthlessly as they can.

So I say this particular doctor is three butchers in a trench coat. I can't prove it, because I can't read minds, but nobody else can either, and this is the "bet" I'm going with. Vulnerable and sick people can only have things that would a.) help super rich people with the same conditions and b.) enable more persecution and exploitation, and an easier discard of undesirable, unproductive or rebellious members of society.

dmbche2• 1 year ago

Isn't it to sell brain-computer connectivity to the masses?

consumer451• 1 year ago

Can you tell us more what you surmise we all think is the end-game objective?

Musk's original stated end-game objective is to give humans a chance against ASI by removing the biggest impediment that humans have to communicate digitally, the keyboard.

This is hard to believe as the truth, as it is extremely short-sighted. If ASI can think 1000x faster than a human brain, and with much more intelligence, then what does giving humans even a 100x improvement in I/O achieve? Also, if ASI is achieved, then it will continue to self-improve. The meat brain is stuck at our current speed.

Please see my HN profile for a privacy rant about the downsides, which only assumes a read capability. Once a write capability is introduced, I mean you gotta be kidding me. Who should you trust with that power? The answer is no one.

tdeck• 1 year ago

Apparently "cobaye" is guinea pig in French. I learn something new every day :).

Terr_4• 1 year ago

My first puzzled interpretation was of a "reservoir of co-pays", as if there was some kind of financial/insurance exploitation going on.

SimianSci4• 1 year ago

I very violently recoil from any of Musk's ventures these days. Im sure there are some very smart and talented people working at Neuralink. They should go work for someone else as their boss has shown himself to be a revolting person and the kind of leader who seeks to actively harm people who inconvenience him.

This kind of behavior is not befitting of a company that will need to cultivate an incredible amount of trust from customers before they buy into the idea of a brain implant.

MathMonkeyMan• 1 year ago

What is the problem with Musk? I know his many shenanigans, but what about his helmanship causes you to violently recoil?

phillipcarter3• 1 year ago

Overt nazi salutes is one, but another is the intentional tinkering-with and partial dismantling of the US Government's system to dispense appropriated funds, and act that is blatantly illegal.

SimianSci4• 1 year ago

I think it comes down to his personal conduct. Specifically, just as I said, I think he actively tries to harm people who might inconvenience him or cause him damage to his public image. In short, I see him as a bully.

One of the great examples of this is the infamous "Pedo guy" incident in which he showed himself as very unempathetic and petty the moment people dismissed him as he attempted to hastily insert himself into a tragic moment.

He's also regularly sued people exercising their free speech to comment on or criticise his financial interests, knowingly attempting to drown influential people he doesnt like in legal fees and frivolous lawsuits.

In the past he has participated in doxing governmental employees who might cause him financial damages, often encouraging his followers to harass beuraucrats and lawyers who are just doing their legal jobs.

There are plenty of examples of Elon regularly engaging in bullying of others who may not have access to the resources he does, its not just limited to these few examples.

In my eyes, any measure of success or wealth will never excuse how a person conducts themselves in public. And I think Elon no longer thinks that the rules apply to him as so many are willing to overlook his behavior due to worshiping his money and influence. Elon's nazi salute is the perfect example of this.

So my original statement still holds. Neuralink has a very large mountain to climb when it comes to consumer trust. Products in the Healthcare industry can massively impact people's lives, especially when they dont work as intended. Any company that participates in this space is morally and ethically required to be empathetic to the lives that they impact. And this level of empathy is not something that I see coming from the man behind neuralink which I think should disqualify it as a company with the potential to impact a lot of people.

javcasas2• 1 year ago

Last time that people doing the nazi salute experimented with health, well it wasn't pretty.

jbreckmckye• 1 year ago

He seems hostile to regulatory oversight which is a problem when he's selling a microchip you implant in your brain

amelius2• 1 year ago

Pulling out of USAID probably killed more helpless people than his companies helped enhance lives.

drawkward4• 1 year ago

Well the nazi salute for one. The attempt to gaslight earth about it for two.

Those are just two of very many recent examples.

142• 1 year ago

Well I personally don't think he is trying to better the world for the sake of being some amazing person giving back to humanity, I do think he really wants to succeed being the first trilionaire. And even if he is not doing this for compassion of those who have lost so much, I do think he wants nothing more then this to be successful so he can sell it to those who need it. Even if his motivation is fully monetary, I don't think anyone with complete loss of mobility ultimately cares what it costs to get some freedom back even if it comes from the a person some see as evil.

He has access to a lot of money so maybe these people working on it should continue to work for him. Maybe he wants to charge an outrageous fee for it but ultimately at some point down the road if he can do it others will to and it will be common place for those who need it and probably common place for those who don't need it but want it.

tsimionescu• 1 year ago

And even if he is not doing this for compassion of those who have lost so much, I do think he wants nothing more then this to be successful so he can sell it to those who need it.

I'm sure he wants to sell it to those who need it, but I don't think that this means he cares that much whether it's successful as a medical device. He generally cares whether some device appears to work well enough that he can sell it, especially to investors, and far less about whether it actually solves a problem/doesn't introduce worse problems.

Tesla FSD is the best example of something he's been selling for at least 7 years now without it actually working as advertised. Cybertruck was sold long before it came out, and now they're producing only a trickle. Roadster has been sold by the tens of thousands and it's not even in a design phase yet. Solar Roofs was presented to investors as a working product when it was a plastic mockup. There are probably others.

soco• 1 year ago

Arguably he has found a quicker way to become a trillionaire, based on a government willing to fund his trip. And even now he's pushing to expand this base internationally. Do you think investing in research is still worth of his attention? It might be too soon to notice, but I somehow think not, and the "normal" projects and companies be they cars or links will start to wither...

throwaway290• 1 year ago

Im sure there are some very smart and talented people working at Neuralink

I'm sure there are. There may also be people with The Com background (https://cyberscoop.com/the-com-764-cybercrime-violent-crime-...) working on it too: https://krebsonsecurity.com/2025/02/teen-on-musks-doge-team-...

yea more known as the DOGE guy but worked at Neuralink before that. Imagine the potential for abuse.

Yoric3• 1 year ago

Sadly, this kind of brings back memories of a few regimes employing criminals for enforcement.

JohnTHaller• 1 year ago

Considering that Musk is purging government agencies and employees that investigated/are investigating Neuralink, it would be smart to stay far away from it.

misja1112• 1 year ago

Sadly it seems that the most visionary and successful CEO's tend to be a*holes to the people around them. Steve Jobs with his 'reality distortion field' comes to mind as well.

andrewoneone• 1 year ago

What's his vision though? (This isn't me being naive - it's more of me asking the reader of these comments to contemplate this)

BluSyn• 1 year ago

I violently recoil at comments like this.

Elon is so effective as a leader he seems to break people’s brains. No other person could have started this company and had even half this success. There’s a reason all the most talented flock to his companies, despite “conventional wisdom” saying they shouldn’t. It takes a lot of self deception to ignore the reality that he obviously must be doing something right.

jlengrand• 1 year ago

Both views can exist at the same time. Many effective leaders are terrible human beings. It's up to everyone to choose their own, ethics and empathy is high on my list of things I care about in a new job but it may be different for others.

simianparrot2• 1 year ago

I also think the way DOGE has gone about their business is the only way that'd work in a systemically corrupt environment. If you give these institutions ample warning they'll bury or destroy any and all evidence, because that's how it's been done for decades. That doesn't work.

dennis_jeeves24• 1 year ago

It takes a lot of self deception to ignore the reality that he obviously must be doing something right.

Well, you have hit the nail on the head. My misanthropic view is that most people are a deluded lot.

internet_points• 1 year ago

Imagine the fun 4chan will have when they find Musk's master keys and commence to 24-7 rickroll some paralyzed person.

A Year of Rick Astley (hey it almost rhymes)

floppiplopp• 1 year ago

If the whole slave simulation with humanoid robots does not work for Elon Musk and his peers, maybe we will see W40K-like servitors, where they take the people the billionaire class deems subhuman and convert them into human drones.

bilbo0s• 1 year ago

I'm thinking in 50 years humans will be so much less capable than bots, that using a human as a servant or a soldier or what have you instead of using a bot would be laughable. Some of us look at AI, and Neuralink, and robot tech and see a point in time and conclude they won't get any better. That's not how any of this has ever worked. They will all get better.

The future of non-elites is unknown. But hopefully either the elites will be magnanimous, or non-elites will create new occupations that will at once, be able to create wealth, and not be able to be performed by bots. Not sure what those new occupations will be? But human ingenuity is an incredible thing, especially if the system remains market capitalism based. Because that will mean your rent and food will depend on you coming up with something to do. I think people will think of something.

If not? Well, let's just say the future might not hold societies as pleasant for non-elites as the societies of today.

nomilk• 1 year ago

Noland suffered a spinal cord injury in a swimming accident and became paralyzed below his shoulders. Noland spent most of his days in bed. His primary digital device was a tablet which he controlled using a mouth-held stylus (mouth stick). The mouth stick not only caused discomfort and fatigue after prolonged use, but it also had to be put in place by a caregiver
He is now able to control a cursor with his thoughts to browse the internet, play games, and continue his educational journey with greater independence.

Once reliable and cheap, the tangible difference this tech is going to make to people's lives is pretty wild.

Curious to know how accurate the cursor movements and clicks are. For example, here he is playing polytopia: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mgY70ZWCL1g

In polytopia, a misclick can be about as frustrating/costly as a mouseslip in chess (when you move a piece to the wrong square by mistake).

pona-a• 1 year ago

We can still see the motion is forced, the cursor takes non-direct paths, actively doges away from targets, requiring active steering to stay put long enough to press them. While there are few misclicks, it feels like a product of active effort more than the inherent accuracy.

renewiltord• 1 year ago

The videos are remarkable. He moves like a person on a touchpad, rather than a quadriplegic. Incredible technology. The joy it is going to bring to so many is going to be wonderful to see.

jonjon16• 1 year ago

Here's a post about an amazing piece of technology that is being created for helping people in dire conditions and the only thing being discussed in here is how much of a bad person is the owner of the company researching said technology. Now, I'm not a US citizen so I have way less stakes in that kind of discussion but I have to say, I find it disgusting how one of my favorite online forum have become a den for political activists.

kvdveer2• 1 year ago

It's hard to separate politics from topics like these, as the current politics have very far reaching impact on almost aspects of life.

For example, this article discusses medical implants. Safety of those is very important. When the owner of the company is actively dismantling oversight that ensures safety, this directly impacts whether we can trust this product.

I agree that HN should be mostly politically neutral, and for the most part it is. For topics involving Musk, however, one simply cannot ignore their problematic attitude towards anything that might inconvenience them.

NitpickLawyer• 1 year ago

Yeah, reddit is heavily leaking in this thread. The Internet as a whole has become slowly more political over the past decade, and that's to be expected. But this last cycle has been utterly unbearable for non americans. The identity politics and the obsession of every person having to be either a super-hero or a villain is tiring. Why can't people just discuss the tech?

contagiousflow• 1 year ago

Don't you think the business operators, along with their motives and influence, should be a part of the discussions on technology?

dmbche2• 1 year ago

I'm not seeing discussion on how much of a bad person that guy is but in how he's demonstrated recklessness and a disrespect for oversight, which are alarming when discussing medical devices - especially such as this specific one.

This is a piece of marketing from a private company. It is a good thing that people raise criticism missing from it.

yapyap• 1 year ago

Glad to see neuralink didn’t give up on their sensationalism.

“telepathy” gtfo, they’re trying to give their brainchips marketing hype synonyms like how Altman calls ChatGPT AI when really, it’s not artificial intelligence, it’s just ML. But ML sounds a whole lot less exciting in the marketing pitch.

nickvec• 1 year ago

ML is a subset of AI.

red-iron-pine• 1 year ago

I mean a set of if/else chains is, in the broadest sense, AI

but it's not the AI that Altman is selling, ditto for ML

Terr_4• 1 year ago

"But sometime next^8 year, the patients will be Fully Self Driving."

betimsl• 1 year ago

Naming it Telepathy is plain wrong.

jeff_vader• 1 year ago

Isn't the main showstopper issue to solve for brain implants is scarring response or something similar? That is when body responds to the implant and surrounds electrodes with some sort of tissue reducing its effectiveness. Has Neuralink made any advancements in that area?

InDubioProRubio3• 1 year ago

Yes, they cloned some minions to downvote biologic reality.. Posted the same questions. Got nil response. If they had a break through, you could see it at the patent search.

tim333• 1 year ago

They can remap the electrodes to find ones that work. Also the thing seems relatively easy to replace and brain implants go. It's a bit early to say how much use they'll get.

kragen6• 1 year ago

I wonder how hard it would be for an LLM interpreting the neural signals to perform a convincing simulation of speaking for the paralyzed person while doing things they don't actually want, or after they've suffered a loss of mental function that leaves them not really wanting anything. Like the autism scandals surrounding Facilitated Communication. Not that I think that's what is going on currently.

This Greg Egan short story is a useful intuition pump about the possibilities. Not recommended for children. Or before trying to sleep. https://philosophy.williams.edu/files/Egan-Learning-to-Be-Me...

It would be great if instead of "a clinical trial to demonstrate that the Link is safe and useful" we could have a clinical trial to determine whether or not it is.

janetmissed• 1 year ago

Thank you for sharing this short story. I read it with my coffee and really enjoyed it, turns out existential dread goes well with the first hit of caffeine of the day. You made my morning :)

kragen6• 1 year ago

You're very welcome!

sdwr2• 1 year ago

I liked the line

My parents were machines. My parents were gods. It was nothing special. I hated them.

and how the story mixes adolescence and feeling special with philosophical ramifications (hinting that focusing on the philosophical ramifications is just an adolescent attempt at feeling special?)

The narrator falls into the same trap at the end, assuming that he is the 1-in-a-million exception. He doesn't realize that everyone has the same experience, they just process it in a healthier way. AI Catcher in the Rye.

soVeryTired• 1 year ago

I really enjoyed that read. Is it hinted that everyone has the experience though?

There's a week where the jewel and the brain are still paired, but the jewel is in control. The hospitals monitor that the two are similar to within tolerance, but somehow this jewel slips through the net. What makes you think there's more to it than the 'one in a million' explanation?

twalla• 1 year ago

Highly recommend Diaspora by Greg Egan as well.

kragen6• 1 year ago

Warning, comments in this thread include spoilers for the short story.

If you upvote this comment, people will see this spoiler warning before the spoilers.

Probably that would be beneficial to a substantial fraction of the people reading the thread.

InDubioProRubio3• 1 year ago

So - what about implant scar tissue? How do they avoid it? How do they reintegrate connections if the implant has to move on? I dont want sob-stories, i want links to patents about avoiding inflamation.

clarionbell• 1 year ago

Musk is a great example of how to ruin ones legacy. At this point, no matter what he does, how his companies perform, or even if this implant gives people back control of their bodies. Nothing will rid his work of the taint.

It's tragic in a way. If he stuck to same playbook as practiced by many other early tech billionaires, spending his life on investing, philanthropy, himself and family, the world would probably not have things like common reusable rockets, widespread EV adoption or massive satellite constellations.

His willingness to pour money, and ability get others to pour their money, into various extremely risky ventures, is what made all of that possible. Eventually it would happen anyway, but probably much later.

But I suspect, that very same personality traits that enabled him to do this, are responsible for his current state. Over the years he has lost his self control, to the point that he looks almost childish. Handful of years ago, he opposed people he now works with.

He's now undermining his own companies, with his actions. Even people like Murdoch or Thiel look better in comparison. Not because of what they do, but because they are less visible.

Everything he has ever done, will now be viewed in much worse light. His reputation, sabotaged by the only person who could accomplish that feat. Himself.

stackedinserter• 1 year ago

Everything he has ever done, will now be viewed in much worse light.

Viewed by whom? By you and a bunch of other neurotics that consumed too much CNN?

hcurtiss3• 1 year ago

Agreed. The Musk invective on HN is just wild.

vessenes• 1 year ago

Quick summary of the comments:

* Everyone hates Elon

* For most this is enough to hate neuralink.

* 15ish+% think that embedding stuff in your brain from any company is a bad idea(TM)

* 5-ish% think this is not worth working on at all, or not worth the animal / human research costs

* In the know folks point out that tech like this has been around for roughly 10 years, but research hasn’t progressed past the point where brain injury isn’t a major risk -> this is too early

I don’t read anything here about human autonomy; each of the guys written about have my utmost respect for not just committing suicide — they must be incredibly tough, persistent and positive humans, full stop. The idea that they can’t or shouldn’t be able to weigh the risks and benefits of tech like this feels infantilizing, in the worst way - infantilizing from people who have full mobility.

At any rate, I applaud a company trying to help people like this, EVEN IF their long term goal is an ad-supported BCI (although TBH Elon’s always had significantly better revenue ideas than ads), and I applaud the first few folks willing to risk their health to get access to a better life, and help people down the line from them.

bgnn• 1 year ago

Why brain implants? Did we exhaust cheaper human/machine interfaces, like voice control?

thrwthsnw• 1 year ago

Listen to an interview with Noland to find out why. Unfortunately the patient with ALS can’t give an interview because he can no longer speak.

esbranson• 1 year ago

UFO abductees report telepathy regularly, as the default mode. UFO witnesses often report they "feel" something odd, that the UFO somehow "sees" them. And pretty much every story is both the same and extremely odd. There have been claims by those in the field implicating an "over-connection of neurons between the head of the caudate and the putamen".

A Year of Telepathy

Related Stories