Interpol wants everyone to stop saying 'pig butchering'

https://www.theregister.com/2024/12/17/interpol_stop_saying_pig_butchering/

by Bender • 2 years ago

51 70 2 years ago

theregister.com

djaouen2• 2 years ago

I agree. We shouldn't be forced to use the terminology of the aggressors whenever we are attacked like this.

mingus88• 2 years ago

Funny though, this term is spread by the media. That’s how it becomes commonplace.

Now the media is telling us we should stop using a term they popularized, by continuing to use the term in their headlines.

Maybe if they just no longer used it, the problem would self-correct itself and we wouldn’t need to chastise ordinary people for using common language.

itsameta4• 2 years ago

Man, the media himself, huh? That guy has to keep his story straight.

mistersquid• 2 years ago

Now the media is telling us we should stop using a term they popularized, by continuing to use the term in their headlines.

The media is conveying Interpol’s recommendation, not their own.

coliveira• 2 years ago

Maybe if they just no longer used it, the problem would self-correct

But then they would lose the opportunity to shame people for a mistake they made, and this is the MO of the media: gaslighting people into thinking that normal folks are always spreading incorrect information while the media is always on the right side.

Cthulhu_2• 2 years ago

Actual Interpol press release, straight for the source: https://www.interpol.int/en/News-and-Events/News/2024/INTERP...

NoZZz• 2 years ago

Anyone up for starting a wolf hunting club?

djaouen2• 2 years ago

Personally, I never fall for so-called "romance baiters" because I outsource all my romantic interactions to my relationship intern [1]. ;)

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8HggAV7V6Wg

Joker_vD• 2 years ago

In place of "pig butchering," Interpol proposes the term "romance baiting" – evidently satisfied that a fishing metaphor involving lures, bait, and hooks makes self-esteem more sustainable for victims.

Let me make a prediction for a title of a future news article from The Register somewhere in the late 2025: "Interpol wants everyone to stop saying 'romance baiting'".

RonaldDump• 2 years ago

In place of "pig butchering," Interpol proposes the term "romance baiting"

But these are different things. They are strategies for separate components of a scam. Romance is one method of luring the mark, obtaining their trust, motivating them to pay, etc. Pig butchering is one game plan for maximising the profit extracted from the scam.

You can have a romance scam without pig butchering, and you can have a scam that employs pig butchering without any romantic element.

taco_emoji2• 2 years ago

Yeah I could easily imagine a crypto-oriented investment con or something like that, which has nothing to do with romance per se.

Cthulhu_2• 2 years ago

"You're gonna LOVE my new cryptocurrency, HotBabesInYourAreaCoin!"

imzadi• 2 years ago

No need for imagination, this is the number 1 scam right now. They make fake investment sites and apps. They encourage the mark to invest some small, safe amount, and let them profit and even withdraw some of their earnings. Once the mark trusts them, they start investing more and seeing their investment growing in the app, which encourages more investing. But, once they go to withdraw a larger amount, there are suddenly all sorts of hurdles and "fees." In reality, there was never any investment happening.

eschulz• 2 years ago

Interpol is generally ineffective, and this is exactly the type of work I've noticed that they like to focus on and screw up.

tqwhite5• 2 years ago

Really? This is your criticism? It doesn't cover the cases where the person isn't trying to extract maximum profit.

But, somehow, in your view, calling a victim a pig is accurate enough for the term to be valid?

infotecht• 2 years ago

"Pig butchering" alludes to the method and callousness of the scammer and has nothing to do with the victim. That would be like criticizing the term "whaling" for comparing targets to whales.

ASalazarMX2• 2 years ago

The Wikipedia page is a good read for context. Basically, this type of scam was born in China, during COVID confinement, and was named in similarity to fattening a pig (making them "invest" increasing amounts in worthless ecoins) before slaughtering it.

Romance scam is a completely different thing, but they could happen in parallel.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pig_butchering_scam

williamdclt• 2 years ago

It wasn't even a good name, "fattening" isn't a good metaphor for "cultivating a relationship with the victim". The name made me assume that the scam involved helping the victim earn more money, to steal it all eventually.

lelandfe• 2 years ago

Agreed. It's reflexive to treat this as another example of George Carlin's "euphemisms"[0] but I just heard the phrase "pig butchering" for the first time and was unable to intuit anything about it.

[0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qvISFZ7bQcE

wat10000• 2 years ago

I’ve seen this term a lot, but I’m still not totally sure what it refers to. I think it’s the one where they message you pretending they have the wrong number, then gradually earn your trust by pretending to be a pretty lady who might be into you? Definitely a bad name.

Cons seem to love bad names, though. “Ponzi scheme” is completely meaningless on its own. “419 scam” likewise. There’s also the Spanish Prisoner, phishing, catfishing…

dfxm12• 2 years ago

I don't think names of cons are supposed to be "good" in that way. They aren't meant to be super intuitive. They aren't supposed to be obvious to anyone but con men. It's security through obscurity, in a way. It's a way to talk about something without outright snitching on yourself. That's why phone calls in mafia movies sound something like "Take care of that friend of ours, yeah, the chicken man".

I also think it is good that normal people are hip to this sort of slang, in case they run into it.

On a similar note, a "badger game" has nothing to do with Wisconsin.

somat• 2 years ago

Every time I see it used I go "your using that term wrong" however I will concede that if everyone is using the term wrong, then perhaps it is actually I who is using the term wrong.

Anyhow, I like this meaning so I will share it with you. I first saw it use in the context of governments and their resident corporations. The government starts with fairly liberal corporate policy, this encourages the corporations to grow and make money. that is, fattening the hogs. and when times get tough, perhaps money is a little tight, they start pulling funds out and killing the corporations via increased taxes, fines, regulation. A process sometimes referred to as pig butchering.

I suspect the main problem with this is the absence of a stable environment to do business in.

ASalazarMX2• 2 years ago

My dad fell for it, but fortunately lost a small amount (less than $1,000 USD) before realizing what was going on.

The fattening stage is making you invest progressively more in scam websites that offer incredible returns. Dad "invested" petty change, and was allowed to withdraw about twice that. The website had graphs that showed how well his investment was doing, and he was literally feeling like a stock wizard. At some point it was doing so well he tried to withdraw more, but the site wouldn't let him unless he "invested" more money. He caught on and stopped doing so, and magically his graphs slowly started going red until all his money was gone.

The butchering stage could have been a lot worse for him, if he had been more greedy and bet his life savings.

taco_emoji2• 2 years ago

I don't really understand the snarky tone of this article. Regardless of however INTERPOL is falling short on curbing this scam, it seems pretty uncontroversial that "pig butchering" is insulting to the victims.

I'm not sure how successful this will be since the existing term is pretty snappy and evocative, if a bit distasteful.

dspillett• 2 years ago

I don't really understand the snarky tone of this article.

It is The Register. Snark is pretty much their style most of the time, even when they entirely agree with who-/what- ever is being reported on.

everybodyknows• 2 years ago

To drive that point home to news outlets, Interpol has published a YouTube video suggesting that headline editors adopt its preferred terminology.
And in an effort to rewrite history, the agency has gone back through old press releases and replaced the now taboo term.
Viewed through the Internet Archive's Wayback Machine, Interpol's past use of the term "pig butchering" is evident.

What heroic ambition! Interpol is making even the world of the past more humane. Now if only all other law enforcement agencies would hire the necessary media staff to emulate this progressive policy, how much memory of suffering might be exorcised from the world's billions ...

jacknews• 2 years ago

Is this like the proclamation that Islamic-state/ISIS should be called 'Daesh', to draw people away from the conjunction of 'state' and violence?

Some countries are scammer h(e)avens, but when that fact is reported, the highest levels of government issue denials and condemnation.

Governments around the world need to stop playing word games, and stem this problem, by applying political pressure, or even focusing 'other' means on it.

tejohnso• 2 years ago

Nothing to do with pigs, because the mark isn't already fat, or even fat at all, they could be a typical low wealth individual, and the scammer doesn't fatten them. And then the scammer slowly drains them, more like bleeding rather than butchering. The name is just bad. I guess it also hurts people's feelings.

rqtwteye2• 2 years ago

What's this obsession with words about? "Sexual assault" instead of "rape", "romance baiting" instead of "pig butchering". "unhoused" instead of "homeless". Many others.

What do we achieve by focusing on words instead of focusing on the substance of the problem?

bongoman42• 2 years ago

It gives a group of people something to do and divert discussions from being about to the actual topic to how to talk about the topic. It gives them importance and they can actually hound out people who have experience with these because they use the older unapproved terms.

quercusa• 2 years ago

Most people I know who were once called 'handicapped' did not like being called 'disabled'

rqtwteye2• 2 years ago

That’s how it feels to me. Calling out people over incorrect words is easier than working on issues but still feels good.

erehweb• 2 years ago

In this particular case, "Interpol argues that the term [...] [deters] people from coming forward to seek help and provide information to the authorities."

We can argue about whether or not that's true, but it seems to be at least not just cosmetic in intent.

pmezard• 2 years ago

As someone not immersed in US media slang, I do not know what "pig butchering" is (or at least that is not what is meant here) while I have a fairly good idea about "romance baiting".

That is probably not why Interpol wants that though.

And I agree with you about the other examples.

kmoser• 2 years ago

The scam, and the term to describe it, is believed to have started in China, so the phrase is not American.

hooverd3• 2 years ago

I thought it involved pork. Clearly these people aren't paying for a quarter cut they won't receive.

genter• 2 years ago

George Carlin explained it well: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hSp8IyaKCs0

ghostpepper2• 2 years ago

Was going to post this if someone else hadn’t already

smokedetector13• 2 years ago

What's this obsession with words about?

There's a few different cases here, but the general principle is that, for many people, words carry emotional or semantic connotations, and we want to use different words to manage these connotations.

1) For the "sexual assault vs. rape" case - Some words may be more unpleasant for many people to hear. Many people may find the word "rape" to evoke more unpleasant emotions than the more muted "sexual assault," so may use the latter in situations where we prefer not to elicit a strong emotional reaction, such as in a professional or therapeutic environment.

2) For the other cases - many people find certain terms more dehumanizing than others. With the homeless example, many people feel that "homeless" has become not just a descriptive term, but a term that carries connotations such as "crazy," "disgusting," "failed," and maybe above-all, "other" - outside the realm of people we consider "us". In contrast, the term "unhoused" carries more of a connotation of a temporary state a person is in, rather than an inherent label or trait of that person.

There is certainly a treadmill phenomenon to this - in a few years, if "unhoused" catches on, and if homeless people are still dehumanized, it's likely that the word will take on a dehumanizing connotation and many will seek to replace it.

What do we achieve by focusing on words

All that said, while I think language is important, I do agree with you that there is an excessive focus on language and an inadequate focus on actual solutions. I would say that the current economic system and power structures make solving these problems very very hard, and as a result many people focus on policing and adjusting language because it is something that they feel they can actually change.

ghostpepper2• 2 years ago

Many people may find the word "rape" to evoke more unpleasant emotions than the more muted "sexual assault,"

IMHO the action being described evokes an extremely strong emotion, and therefore so too should the word we use.

vasco3• 2 years ago

If I hear homeless I hear "home" + "no". If I hear unhoused I hear "no" + "house". To me they are the same. Also why when someone says "the X word" and I have to hear it in my head I don't get their point, for all practical results you still said it as I now have it in my mind - BTW I'm not advocating for saying the word, just don't say it at all though. Language is tough man, maybe it's because I'm not a native speaker.

furyofantares• 2 years ago

I don't know about unhoused but the other two seem like genuinely useful improvements in terms of communication. I don't think using words that better communicate the idea has a negative effect on working against the thing.

alanbernstein• 2 years ago

I don't know about this specific example, but the concept is sometimes referred to as the "euphemism treadmill", which suggests a sort of cyclical nature to it.

truculent• 2 years ago

It’s not new: https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/euphemism_treadmill

IanCal2• 2 years ago

People still use rape but there's a thing there around understanding exactly what that might mean. I've been "sexually assaulted" but not raped, legally, because of UK laws.

Unhoused may be because homeless covers people living in homes. But I'm not arguing this case because I don't trust that's a real issue you're raising given the others.

Interpol argues that the term 'pig butchering' dehumanizes and shames victims of such frauds, deterring people from coming forward to seek help and provide information to the authorities."

There you go.

You're arguing this like this is instead of, rather than alongside, targeting criminals.

How victims feel and how likely they are to report issues is important. If you called fraud "scammed an idiot" would you get as many people reporting? Pig butchering is a shockingly dehumanising term.

vasco3• 2 years ago

Unhoused may be because homeless covers people living in homes.

My understanding of the word homeless depends on the fact that someone has no home. Can you expand on what you mean?

adjective plural noun: the homeless; adjective: homeless (of a person) without a home, and therefore typically living on the streets.

throw948484• 2 years ago

Try to call something done to new born infants "mutilation " or "brutal sexual assaukt". Technically it might be correct, but not many people can stomach it.

mbauman• 2 years ago

Words and names are powerful — this is something that I've found over and over again as a programmer. If you can find the right name for something, then the abstractions immediately become clear.

This isn't unique to programming

sharpshadow• 2 years ago

Politicians in Germany now sue citizens if they call them an idiot. No joke weekly some average joe gets his house raided and searched by police because he posted online that politician X is an idiot and has to pay a hefty fine.

Ice on the cake are the 13 year olds which use the “wrong” party political hashtag and get their house raided.

contrarian1234• 2 years ago

Isn't sexual assault and rape very different?

If you kiss someone who doesn't want to be kissed then you've sexually assaulted them but you've definitely not raped them

morning-coffee2• 2 years ago

I don't care what they call it, I just wish I felt like Interpol was focusing all of its efforts to combat the actual crimes rather than manage the optics or feelings of victims after the crimes have been committed.

This change is an important step towards humanizing and supporting victims of these crimes.

Great. Message received. Now please re-deploy the resources you gave to your Marketing department to produce and distribute and raise awareness of this "important step" back to the Investigation or Enforcement departments to prevent and prosecute.

hooverd3• 2 years ago

Meh. Can the people hyperventilating about this change show it's actually operationally affecting Interpol in any way, or do you just enjoy the dopamine rush.

staticman2• 2 years ago

I've never heard that term 'pig butchering' and assumed it had something to do with killing pigs in violation of some nation's religious laws.

BadHumans2• 2 years ago

Pig butchering was the literal Chinese translation which is why the name got around to begin with. You find it dehumanizing or whatever then cool but it's not like we drew names out of a hat and landed on that one.

tqwhite5• 2 years ago

They translated it and used it. That's bad enough.

I bet they wouldn't have done so if it translated to the n-word. Translators have agency and should take responsibility.

BadHumans2• 2 years ago

Responsibility for what? This is such an asinine statement.

tqwhite5• 2 years ago

"Pig butchering" is an awful phrase. I can't believe that anyone with a shred of decency used it. The people who were harmed are not pigs.

You below complaining about language sensitivity would probably be fine with calling rape, "slut reaming". Because, why not?

What we achieve by focusing on words as well as the substance of the problem is avoiding hideous insults and insensitivity toward people harmed by crime and abuse.

This isn't even hard people.

morning-coffee2• 2 years ago

Other people who've been harmed weren't catfish either, but we're not up in arms about that?

tqwhite5• 2 years ago

Neither cats nor fish are commonly used as disparagement. Fishing is not usually thought of as a violent or vicious action.

Pig and Butcher are worse than catfishing.

But, if I were king, I'd try to think up a better term for it.

alazoral• 2 years ago

If I was watching a gritty crime film and one of the criminals said “alright lads, looks like it time to do some pig butchering”, my assumption would be they would be ambushing some cops. If the next scene was them setting up a Facebook profile it would seem comically mismatched.

Interpol wants everyone to stop saying 'pig butchering'

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