Snowden: The arrest of Durov is an assault on the basic human rights

https://twitter.com/Snowden/status/1827695836832334169

by hggh • 2 years ago

132 251 2 years ago

ChumpGPT3• 2 years ago

Would Snowden have said the same thing if Durov didn't escape from Russia before he was arrested? Probably not, Snowden is part of the Russian Spy and Disinformation campaign. He is basically a Russian agent.

atlaspod• 2 years ago

Exactly my thought too.

DaSHacka• 2 years ago

Probably not, Snowden is part of the Russian Spy and Disinformation campaign. He is basically a Russian agent.

love when everything inconvenient to the United States government and it's affiliates is "disinformation"

JumpCrisscross29• 2 years ago

when everything inconvenient to the United States government and it's affiliates is "disinformation"

That's not what disinformation means. Disinformation is a polite way of saying lies [1].

[1] https://www.bmi.bund.de/SharedDocs/schwerpunkte/EN/disinform...

ChumpGPT3• 2 years ago

Really? How convenient for you to just blame the USA and list France as an affiliate. If the USA wanted him (Durov), they could have arrested him a long time ago.

Why doesn't Snowden speak about the horrors of the Russian war in Ukraine where woman and children are raped and shot?

He only speaks when it is beneficial for his masters.

ath3nd2• 2 years ago

love when everything inconvenient to the United States government and it's affiliates is "disinformation"

I thought and still think that Snowden is a brave and righteous man for airing the US government's dirty laundry.

Not him becoming a Russian citizen, but rather his silence on the bloody war of Putin, however, makes me think that I should take Snowden's words with a pinch of salt.

busterarm• 2 years ago

and love the people that only apply this thinking in a foreign policy context and not domestic because it's inconvenient to their party...

JAlexoid3• 2 years ago

love when everything inconvenient to the United States government and it's affiliates is "disinformation"

This tweet is literally plain propaganda move, as it has little to do with human rights... and Snowden has been a treasure trove of Russian sponsored propaganda lately.

To the point of me thinking that his Twitter is just some FSB agent writing posts for him.

leto_ii2• 2 years ago

Would Snowden have said the same thing if Durov didn't escape from Russia before he was arrested?

Why not? What's the thinking here?

Probably not, Snowden is part of the Russian Spy and Disinformation campaign. He is basically a Russian agent.

Any evidence for that?

rasz2• 2 years ago

Any evidence for that?

at this point he is at the mercy of his FSB handler, either he posts what he is told/expected to or he loses usefulness and joins Russell 'Texas' Bentley as a cautionary tale.

JumpCrisscross29• 2 years ago

Any evidence for that?

No. But it's reasonable to presume he's a compromised source. That doesn't mean he wants to be, nor that everything he's saying has been dictated to him. But his public communications would be, at the very least, monitored and vetted.

marcusverus2• 2 years ago

Snowden left the United States because the Federal Government wants to imprison him. The government wants to imprison him because he revealed them to be engaged in illegal surveillance on a scale that makes the Stasi's seem modest by comparison. To stay out of prison, he had to go to a country which wouldn't extradite him, hence his presence in Russia.

Edward Snowden is a hero who has made a tremendous sacrifice for Americans and for American ideals. The fact that he has to live in Russia to enjoy peace and freedom is a damning indictment, to be sure, but not of Edward Snowden.

GuB-42• 2 years ago

I wouldn't call it a "tremendous sacrifice" then. It would have been had he decided to face trial, or at least not flee to a country that is the historical enemy of the US with access to who knows how many copies of secret documents so that he could save his ass.

I don't know how a trial would have ended, but considering how much public attention he got, including many supporters, he would have had a fair trial, or at least, fair enough for the cameras. Chances are that by now, he would have served his time in prison (he broke the law after all) and be a free US citizen. After all, Assange and Manning are both free right now.

Yes, years in prison is not fun, at all (hence the "sacrifice" part), but I guess his stay in Russia is not particularly fun either. And now, he risks an even greater sentence should he go back to the US.

His actions, though undeniably human, taint his status as a hero.

skeeter2020• 2 years ago

It really feels like anyone coming down at the extreme of either side of this (the French government and Snowden included) is greatly simplifying a very complex issue.

zer00eyz2• 2 years ago

Is it complicated?

telegram purports to be "encrypted".

There has been no audit of that. The servers live in a country with questionable legal standing for digital citizens.

What the French say they are arresting him for, and what they actually know might not be the same. Given telegrams position the cyber criminal world, and its place in Russia and eastern Europe I would not be surprised if there is a litany of reasons we aren't hearing about.

JumpCrisscross29• 2 years ago

Is it complicated?

Yes. We're dealing with French law on French soil in respect of a dual national.

We literally have zero official documents from the arrest. (EDIT: We got one!) This could be an elaborate scheme to route out an FSB plot. Or it could be as simple as he has a bunch of drugs on his jet.

In summary, it's a fundamentally complicated situation into which we have imperfect information. Coming to a strong conclusion, at this point, is an expression of faith. Not reason.

kylebenzle• 2 years ago

Also, remember in 2022 Snowden swore allegiance to Russia when he became a citizen so we can't just assume he is neutral.

* https://www.opb.org/article/2023/06/04/a-decade-on-edward-sn...

paulpauper2• 2 years ago

assume anything posted on a chat app will or can be public. someone can literally take a screenshot of the conversation even if encrypted.

anigbrowl2• 2 years ago

telegram purports to be "encrypted".

The whole encryption issue seems like a total sideshow to me. I've been on Telegram for years and only exchanged a few DMs in that time. There are tons of public channels which require no approval or exchange of information to join.

psychlops2• 2 years ago

Go on...

mc323• 2 years ago

Even Nassim Taleb[1] seems to think Macron is in the wrong, not to mention Snowden. You also had Macron saying that he envisioned shutting down Social media in the event of riots. That is no way is a commitment to freedom of expression. Imagine shutting down Facebook or X during BLM riots, or any other mass riot? That's so antithetical to the US first amendment right to free expression.

That said, it's no surprise that anyone who doesn't identify with a riot wants to suppress freedom of expression on an unrelated platform and those who agree with a movement or riot, will want to ensure freedom of expression on a given platform even if they previously and into the future might want to shutdown the same medium for allowing expression they disagree with.

[1]https://x.com/nntaleb/status/1828100412047573104

perihelions• 2 years ago

They actually did just do that: France legally cut off social media in the overseas territory of New Caledonia (in the wake of mass protests or riots over a voting rights law).

- "The French government hasn’t formally specified why it singled out TikTok for a block."

- "Philippe Gomes, the former president of New Caledonia's government, told POLITICO the decision aimed to stop protesters from "organizing reunions and protests" through the app."

https://www.politico.eu/article/french-tiktok-ban-new-caledo... ("French TikTok block in overseas territory sets ‘dangerous precedent,’ critics warn")

judge20202• 2 years ago

The data the French government wants is in cleartext on Telegram's servers, but is there an argument to be made that, at least ethically, communications should be protected regardless of encrypted vs plaintext, and police should just do regular detective work to catch criminals?

Edit: PDF for the arrest warrant so that it's in context for the comments:

https://www.tribunal-de-paris.justice.fr/sites/default/files...

JumpCrisscross29• 2 years ago

an argument to be made that, at least ethically, communications should be protected regardless of encrypted vs plaintext, and police should just do regular detective work to catch criminals?

France has fairly extreme data retention requirements [1].

[1] https://www.conseil-etat.fr/en/news/connection-data-the-coun...

nabla93• 2 years ago

Sending warrants and subpoenas is regular detective work.

effingwewt• 2 years ago

Not when it's to another country with its own laws.

Seeing stuff like in the past few decades has me viewing criminals and police more and more alike.

At least the criminals don't hide behind a facade of public service/good.

Ylpertnodi• 2 years ago

It is (unfortunately) regular police work.....nowadays. Only criminals (and their defenders) complained about fingerprints being used as id, nowadays it's expected. Time moves on. I did set up telegram today...my contribution to the noise, as I'm a very firm believer in communications being very protected.

I do highly commend Snowdon for what he has done in the past, but his (though highly understandable) silence regarding Ukraine puts him on my shitlist. Very low down on it, but on it all the same.

OutOfHere5• 2 years ago

silence regarding Ukraine

Do you even understand that he is forced to stay in Russia, and would prefer not to have an accidental fall from a window?

vgb2k182• 2 years ago

If you personally could lead by example, and flee the US, seek asylum in Russia only to be not "silent regarding Ukraine", your name could be deleted from my moronic shitlist too.

anigbrowl2• 2 years ago

No, I don't think so. If people are openly advertising to provide criminal services (which is super-easy to find on Telegram; eg there are channels where you can pay people to damage property or commit violence), is it realistic to expect police to ignore that just because it's digital?

tdb7893• 2 years ago

I don't really have good context on the issue but is there a reason you consider getting Telegram logs outside of "regular detective work". Intercepting communications (assuming they have a warrant, at least based on my understanding in the US) would seem to be very standard police work to me.

JumpCrisscross29• 2 years ago

Intercepting communications (assuming they have a warrant, at least based on my understanding in the US) would seem to be very standard police work to me

There is also a big difference between doing what e.g. Signal does, which is respond with everything they have, i.e. nothing, and (a) refusing to provide data you have or (b) blowing the warrant off.

rasz2• 2 years ago

basic human rights

- selling drugs

- selling hacking/ddossing services

- posting beheading videos, latest one had Ukrainian soldiers head on a spike

- sending cruise missile targeting coordinates to military units

According to outraged russians those all among the things French prosecutors mentioned in arrest warrant.

artemonster• 2 years ago

unless he personally did all of those, this is a separate issue. by the same logic you dont sue gun manufacturers for all the deaths caused by these guns.

JumpCrisscross29• 2 years ago

you dont sue gun manufacturers for all the deaths caused by these guns

We literally had to pass a law because people kept doing that [1].

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protection_of_Lawful_Commerce_...

jatotebs3• 2 years ago

Drugs are sold on every platform, including Instagram. The other parts are just as likely to end up on Facebook as they are Telegram too, there really is no point in trying to make this sound like the USA-based platforms aren't utterly rife with the things you mentioned too. The only difference here is that Telegram isn't USA-owned and doesn't need to bow down to the USA Govt.

JumpCrisscross29• 2 years ago

only difference here is that Telegram isn't USA-owned and doesn't need to bow down to the USA Govt

The U.S. government doesn't like encrypted communications. But it's legally bound, by our Constitution and courts, in a way Paris is not.

Nobody has been fussing about Telegram in a serious way in America.

itake• 2 years ago

The only difference here is that Telegram isn't USA-owned and doesn't need to bow down to the USA Govt.

My understanding, unlike US companies, Telegram hasn't been co-operating with the EU? US companies are not perfect (see the hundreds of millions/billions of fines), but the US companies at least work with authorities.

OutOfHere5• 2 years ago

Wait till you find out and list all the crimes committed using the US dollar.

rldjbpin• 2 years ago

for those comparing this platform to silk road or dark web with stuff like this: there is no proof that Durov is directly involved in these activities or is promoting it.

non-cooperation with information from law enforcement of a foreign government is the same as the discourse about us-based tech not complying to chinese requests or those from US adversaries. that alone does not fly in the court of law, at least for rich and influential people.

the only thing to wonder is if there was an existing warrant issued against him in place much before he landed in france, and if so why he decided to travel there.

isodev• 2 years ago

If Snowden is concerned about human rights, why posting on Twitter? Is it really Snowden posting from that account or “Snowden”.

valiant55• 2 years ago

Snowden has been a Russian mouthpiece since he fled and shouldn't be trusted. That said, he did what most of us wouldn't and is just doing what you have to do to survive.

With all that said, this appears to be the correct take based on what information we have today.

andix13• 2 years ago

Exactly. This fact probably sickens him greatly, but it's the reality. He chose Russia over prison. He didn't get freedom with that deal, just a much nicer life (hopefully).

ChumpGPT3• 2 years ago

Because Russia is a bastion of Human rights and freedom....

jatotebs3• 2 years ago

Can you tell me who is a bastion of Human right and freedom? Personally, I'm struggling to think of any right now.

surfingdino6• 2 years ago

Countries where the legal system provides a way to discuss, define, and defend human rights qualify, imho. No system is perfect, but those that follow laws pertaining to human rights are generally closer to the ideal. It's about this subtle difference:

USA: "We have no problem with someone saying that the president is an idiot"

Russia: "We have no problem with someone saying that the US president is an idiot"

Der_Einzige2• 2 years ago

EASY. Nordic social democracies, Iceland. I know someone will respond with some examples of them capitulating to big bad America somewhere, but they are absolutely bastions of Human rights and freedoms.

New Zeland is likely up there too, likely Luxembourg/Switzerland and other tax havens. The Baltics are pretty good.

andix13• 2 years ago

This raking might not be perfect, but it shows which countries are probably more free then others.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_in_the_World

andix13• 2 years ago

There is no free speech in Russia anymore. This includes Edward Snowden as long as he's living in Russia. Please just ignore what he's saying until he leaves Russia or Russia becomes a free country again.

The only reason Edward Snowden got asylum in Russia is using him for propaganda.

superkuh• 2 years ago

There's a pretty easy solution for this: the USA can stop trying to imprison and/or disappear Edward Snowden for reporting on it's crimes against it's citizens. Then he could just come home.

The goal of the USA trapping him there was to get people to disregard his opinions like this. Yes, he can't say the truth regarding the Russia. But he can still say the truth regarding France.

And this is the truth. If this were done by another less powerful country there would be (and has been) outrage.

simonebrunozzi• 2 years ago

its, not it's

andix13• 2 years ago

Russia will never let him go. They will point a gun at him and let him explain on camera how great Russia is and why he's never going to leave.

He became an essential part of their propaganda, he doesn't even have to do it in person, his X account is enough.

regnull7• 2 years ago

He didn't have to escape to Russia with a bunch of laptops filled with classified documents, the majority of which he's never made public. If he cares so much about exposing the US government, he should stand up for his beliefs. Yes, it might mean arrest and prison. If he's not ready for this, he shouldn't get involved. Your convictions mean nothing if you are not ready suffer for them.

surfingdino6• 2 years ago

A government contractor working on classified systems typically signs a strict NDA and is quite likely told in no uncertain terms what will happen when those terms are broken. He did it knowingly and willingly. What did he expect? If he was doing it for a higher cause, he must also had known that people will possibly die if what he passed on to the Russians contained personal information. If he can live with the deadly consequences of his own actions, he must be OK with a potentially violent end to his own life.

irongeek• 2 years ago

Agreed, anything Edward Snowden says right now is just propaganda.

Matl7• 2 years ago

Does every American citizen implicitly endorse what the Biden admin supports right now in Palestine?

JumpCrisscross29• 2 years ago

Does every American citizen implicitly endorse what the Biden admin supports right now in Palestine?

I must have missed the pro-Ukrainian protests, lawmakers and debates--online and all over the news--in Russia.

megous4• 2 years ago

You can't assume there's free speech in the western countries either. Eg. Germany's banning political speach, left and right, even physically attacking and shutting down unconvenient conferences. There's such a thing as foreign intimidation of activists. Countries like India are engaging in politically motivated assasinations in western countries (Canada). Etc.

Just because some activists is in a western country doesn't mean they're free from influence or intimidation.

oezi6• 2 years ago

Germany's ban on some type of political speech have high bars. It is not easy to shut down right wing publications.

And just to be clear, the bans we have in Germany prohibit spreading lies about some of the worst atrocities ever committed by man. Freedom of speech is a valuable right, but not as valuable as the dignity and life of humans, 50m of which lost their life from 1933-1945.

baxtr• 2 years ago

Somewhere else someone mentioned the mud puddle test for messengers.

I would like to propose a test for how free countries are: take a cart-board and write something critical about the current government, hold it up on a major square in the capital. Count the seconds/minutes/hours until they arrest you.

Now compare results across countries.

samstave• 2 years ago

The only reason Edward Snowden got asylum in Russia is using him for propaganda

Yeah, good propaganda - if you're an anti-WEF-globalist - F WEF and F the surveillance state

reducesuffering• 2 years ago

Case in point: https://x.com/Snowden/status/1493641714363478016

Feb 11, 2022: "There is nothing more grotesque than a media pushing for war."

Feb 15th: "So... if nobody shows up for the invasion Biden scheduled for tomorrow morning at 3AM, I'm not saying your journalistic credibility was instrumentalized as part of one of those disinformation campaigns you like to write about, but you should at least consider the possibility."

"If there's an invasion tomorrow, dunk on me because I have been spectacularly wrong."

US / EU intel: 1

Snowden / Russia: 0

nabla93• 2 years ago

Everyone must cooperate when they receive legal warrants and subpoenas. That's normal police work.

There is the right way and the wrong way.

Wrong way: Telegram keeps records and refuses to cooperate. Telegram faces consequences.

Right way: Signal cooperates. They give two Unix timestamps. One for when the account was created and the date the account last connected to the Signal service. https://signal.org/bigbrother/cd-california-grand-jury/ See also: https://signal.org/bigbrother/

thelastparadise• 2 years ago

How do we know Signal actually does that?

sunbum2• 2 years ago

Did you even click the link?

nabla93• 2 years ago

They simply can't collect much. Plus keeping secret records would be massive legal liability, especially in the EU.

The protocol is public. Signal software is free and open-source. Its mobile clients, desktop client, and server are all published under the AGPL-3.0. Any modifications for the app binaries and protocols would be quickly noticed. Hackers and cybersecurity companies are not fools.

cpach2• 2 years ago

If you want to know what an application really does, you should grab a copy of IDA Pro or Ghidra and inspect the binaries.

OutOfHere5• 2 years ago

What you're saying in effect is that any random country should be able to subpoena records for anyone. To be logically consistent, what if say Iran wants the records of the head of the CIA? The concern is not limited to Telegram; it generalizes to any messaging app.

ajsnigrutin• 2 years ago

"rules for thee not for me"

EU has been doing a lot of really bad stuff regarding the freedom of private communication recently (last few years), but they still manage to complain about others.

surfingdino6• 2 years ago

If the head of the CIA was chatting on Telegram, they ought to be able to subpoena the records.

Der_Einzige2• 2 years ago

If the head of the CIA stepped foot in Iran, you bet your butt that they'd be at serious risk of arrest. The only reason this wouldn't be the case is Iran not having Nukes.

lovethevoid2• 2 years ago

There is no logical inconsistency here. Durov, a citizen of France, failed to comply with their own country's process. This isn't a "random country" applied "for anyone".

JumpCrisscross29• 2 years ago

What you're saying in effect is that any random country should be able to subpoena records for anyone

Durov is a French citizen. He was arrested in France. This isn't a Kim Dotcom situation.

megous4• 2 years ago

"Signal enables crime and hinders police work in much more clever ways than Telegram."

Great argument. :)

codedokode9• 2 years ago

Will you cooperate if you receive a legal warrant from China, Russia, Iran or North Korea?

Also, Telegram is accused in other things, like importing uncertified cryptographic tools. If you go to Gtihub, there are large deposits of uncertified cryptographic tools. Why ssh or openssl developers are not arrested? I am sure they do not have a proper certificate.

As I guess, this is a typical case when the law enforcement bends the vaguely written laws. A law saying something like "it is illegal to assist commiting a crime" is a typical example of such vague law: until there is a court decision you cannot even know if some event was legal or illegal. And "assist" is also a very vague term.

JumpCrisscross29• 2 years ago

Will you cooperate if you receive a legal warrant from China, Russia, Iran or North Korea?

No. But after refusing it, I sure as hell wouldn't go there.

regnull7• 2 years ago

We are talking about France, no?

mrtksn2• 2 years ago

China, Russia, Iran or North Korea?

Probably no but I also would expect to face consequences if I go to the country whom court order I choose not to fulfill.

It's the same thing with the USA in the crypto community, you either don't sell US citizens unregulated securities or you sell and avoid USA or any country that might extradite you to USA.

I remember the days when the internet was the wild west, laws wouldn't apply and the cops lacked the tools to catch anyone or enforce anything. Those days are long gone, the rule of the thumb is that countries now have rules and tool for this stuff and if you break them better never ever visit these countries.

hn19867• 2 years ago

Among one of the many charges... "Complicity - Detention of the image of a minor of a child-pornographic nature."

Him being charged is as simple and standard as an administrator being shut down and it's owner charged for propagating illegal content. As standard as a Tor drug site being shutdown and it's owner charged. Worse, Durov was involved with CSAM material and did nothing about it. For this, he is immoral and in my opinion, a disgusting human being.

https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/justice-department-announces-...

https://www.threads.net/@cyndiborowski/post/C_JSEuByAVQ?xmt=...

JumpCrisscross29• 2 years ago

Durov was involved with CSAM material and did nothing about it

Source?

hottakes99• 2 years ago

we don't know what he has been asked. the french authorities are testing the waters and see how much they can control the guy. given the uproar, it seems its not the time and so they claim they are only concerned about csam.

cynicalpeace3• 2 years ago

It's amazing how many on HN are actually closet authoritarians. It was made extra clear during the pandemic and becomes clearer with every one of these posts

philwelch2• 2 years ago

The majority of people on HN have been out of the closet about their authoritarianism for many years now.

lern_too_spel• 2 years ago

On the flip side of the coin, it's amazing how many on HN are public anarchists. When we come together as a society to create laws, we make them for a reason, and nobody is above them.

JumpCrisscross29• 2 years ago

amazing how many on HN are actually closet authoritarians

Signal responding to a subpoena with, in essence, a fuck you is authoritarian?

jq-r• 2 years ago

Or to add sarcastically, if Telegram and/or Durov was American I'm sure there would be an uproar.

AnthonyMouse6• 2 years ago

The result of this is that users, especially any the government might be interested in, would use the services that don't keep any information. Which in general is good -- services shouldn't be keeping data for no reason -- but sometimes there's a reason. Maybe an ordinary user would like to have a cloud backup, but not if it could create legal liability (and then their lawyers order them not to do it).

So we should be asking if this makes sense. If the government can snatch the data from third party services without a warrant then the people interesting to them will use the ones that don't store it, and then the government can't get the data with only a subpoena anyway. They may not even be able to get it with a warrant. But it also means that people can't have any features that require a trusted third party if they're concerned about legal liability from e.g. prosecutors taking things out of context, which should be everybody because they do that all the time.

raxxorraxor• 2 years ago

Some of these warrants and subpoenas are senseless and come from deliberate political prosecution though. This seems to be the case in France, not a good look at all, especially with these accusations.

But Signal did get it right too, this is basically malicious compliance. But making a state make a fuss is another.

Qem• 2 years ago

I bet Durov arrest has little to do with any bullshit charges the French government is accusing him of, and more to do with Telegram being used to document the Gaza genocide. Once a platform allows the world see images of children bodies torn by IDF bombs, governments rush to throw any pretense of free speech out of the window.

dunekid• 2 years ago

Absolutely true. Anything to deny the Genocide, while the Zionists themselves watch and mock the destruction.

jrm42• 2 years ago

Yeah, Snowden's kind of no longer the authority on any of this anymore:

But more to the point; I find it kind of hilarious how the crypto bros* are UP IN ARMS over this; like weren't y'all supposed to make a blockchain version of this or something? Did y'all forget the whole "decentralization" bit?

*I do the crypto thing a bit myself, but yes, I do mean to talk about a certain type.

regnull7• 2 years ago

Ok, before everyone loses their minds over this, let me point out some interesting details:

- Durov was an author of VKontakte, I suppose you can say it's Russian Facebook, then there were some events resulting in him leaving VK, and leaving the country;

- He started Telegram, and supposedly at this point he was a dissident, but strangely, in Russia everyone and their brother were using Telegram. This includes government officials, military, etc, etc.

- The latest developments occurred after he visited Azerbaijan, where it was speculated he met Putin. Right after that, he boards his plane and goes directly to Paris, where he knew he was wanted. There are some speculations that he wanted to be arrested, because the alternative was worse. How worse? It's a speculation, obviously, but we know what Putin can do to people he disagree with.

Bottom line, there is much we don't know about this. Reducing it to "free speech" issue is simplifying it. Somebody like Snowden, who said nothing about free speech in Russia (where basically everything is censored), should refrain from commenting.

Finally, I find it's unacceptable that we have to rely on software provided by PRIVATE COMPANIES to securely communicate between individuals. This is what the Internet was supposed to be about - a set of communication standards. With the current state of cryptography, we should be able to solve this as a public standard.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pavel_Durov

regnull7• 2 years ago

You should also look into who's screaming bloody murder following his arrest. Basically, all the usual Russian characters - the foreign ministry which somehow managed to put together a protest super fast on the weekend, all the Russia TV personas, "independent journalists", and the Western useful idiots - Musk first among them. That would never happen for a regular "dissident".

JumpCrisscross29• 2 years ago

occurred after he visited Azerbaijan, where it was speculated he met Putin. Right after that, he boards his plane and goes directly to Paris

How credible are these claims?

regnull7• 2 years ago

It’s a fact he went to Azerbaijan at the same time Putin did. It’s also a fact that he flew to the Paris right after. Putin spokesman said they did not meet. There were speculations that they did - references are on Wikipedia page.

bdjsiqoocwk• 2 years ago

Running a platform that hosts child porn is a basic human right? Stop spreading propaganda comrade Snowden.

jokoon• 2 years ago

Funny because I remember he criticized telegram

seydor• 2 years ago

"Appease the police As A Service". Makes your startup appear comformant to the capricious demands of police , appeases regulators by doing minimal crime detection. If facebook and instagram can get away with it, so can you. Sign up for just 99.99 /mo. We will go to jail for you.

magicmicah852• 2 years ago

Is Durov even charged with anything? As I understand this release, he is being detained for questioning on an unnamed person being charged to several offenses:

https://x.com/jsrailton/status/1828125807035756706

ngetchell• 2 years ago

The twitter link you posted contain the charge docs. Do they not?

magicmicah852• 2 years ago

No, it states Durov was arrested in context of a judicial investigation of a an unnamed person. Durov himself, to my knowledge, has not been charged with any crimes.

bloopernova• 2 years ago

There seems to be a feeling that implies "telegram being unmoderated is a public benefit that outweighs the negative impact."

I'm not understanding the logic there. CSAM not being taken down after a request from law enforcement is an awful thing.

I've also read that you get bombarded by drugs and sex trafficking if you search locally, which is seriously yuck if it's true. Does that really happen?

2OEH8eoCRo0• 2 years ago

Searching locally showed me 100% porn/sex worker accounts that appear to be fakes and bots but I didn't inquire.

wnevets• 2 years ago

A mouthpiece for the kremlin talking about basic human rights is hilarious

jemmyw2• 2 years ago

the most interesting thing I've read on this subject is that Russia is using Telegram as a military communication tool. In the early days of the Ukraine war there were some reports on how the offical communication infrastructure they had built had failed quite badly.

There's speculation (but no proof) that Russia already has access to the cryptographic keys for Telegram. They were very intent on getting access or banning the service some years ago, and then rather suddenly stopped talking about it.

Snowden: The arrest of Durov is an assault on the basic human rights

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