Opinion: I'd rather have a headphone jack and a microSD slot than AI in my phone

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41009359

by mouse_ • 2 years ago

127 94 2 years ago

news.ycombinator.com

Curious how others feel about this.

dzogchen• 2 years ago

Why would they give up on three sources of extra revenue?

tomwheeler4• 2 years ago

This is the real answer why manufacturers don't serve this part of the market

dotancohen4• 2 years ago

I recently bought a NOS Samsung Note 10 Lite. A quarter the price of the S24, has the wonderful S-Pen and a headphone jack. And even though the battery is ostensibly not user replaceable, it is an easy job that can be done in five minutes without risking breaking anything else.

rhomv• 2 years ago

I can understand the upgrade required for extra storage and AI subscriptions, but what revenue is earned from the elimination of the headphone jack? I can only see the marginal costs of adding one in, but for consumers who want it, it'd be a sales tactic.

Iulioh• 2 years ago

Bluetooth earphones are devices with a really limited lifespan.

You can use like 2 charges in a day easily and that a lifespan of one to 2 years.

For a lot if vendors it isn't a notable difference, for apple with the air pods it's MASSIVE

rchaud4• 2 years ago

Thinking like this is how we end up with gadgets that can be barely be called pocket computers.

Thank God that the computer industry came of age before iOSsification began. Need to connect to wired headphones? Buy a dongle. Need more storage? Pay for iCloud. Want to program on your iPad? Jump through a million hoops and end up using a remote desktop solution.

PaulHoule2• 2 years ago

I have so many tablets and cheap phones that don't have the storage to play high-end mobile games, it would make a difference to me if I could expand my memory easily. (Edit: some folks got excited because I said "memory" when I meant "storage")

dotancohen4• 2 years ago

SD cards are storage, not memory.

nezza-_-• 2 years ago

SD cards are flash memory.

natch• 2 years ago

Do any old Android phones have this combination?

porkbeer• 2 years ago

Quite a few. But only a couple that continue to get updates. A few older samsungs come to mind.

jemmyw4• 2 years ago

Sony Xperia phones have this combination, including the just released version. Just nobody buys them.

mouse_3• 2 years ago

they are $900, used, on ebay

tomwheeler4• 2 years ago

I agree 100%. And when people inevitably claim that the reason for eliminating the headphone jack is so you could have a phone that could withstand being dropped in water, I think back to the Samsung Galaxy S5 that I bought 10 years ago. It has a headphone jack, a microSD slot, and a user-removable battery, plus an IP67 rating.

tomwheeler4• 2 years ago

I'll also add that the S5 was a much more convenient size than the enormous phones they make these days, some of probably wouldn't even fit in my pocket.

thebruce87m• 2 years ago

http://phandroid.com/2014/04/19/galaxy-s5-water-damage/amp/

The Galaxy S5 is very good about reminding you close your charger door snugly and make sure your battery cover is snapped on COMPLETELY before continuing. This is a message you shouldn’t dismiss (although it allows you to) because the reminder is a good one. I can say with confidence that during both water tests my phone back cover and battery port were completely secured.
Somehow, though, water snuck its way into my battery.

throwitaway1123• 2 years ago

It also had an IR blaster that let you control your television without worrying about misplacing a remote.

complaintdept• 2 years ago

Yeah but how does Google/Apple make money off of cloud storage when you don't need it?

In some ways it's better to just get a usb-c fob for this functionality...have a problem with your headphone jack or microSD slot? Throw it out and replace it.

I'd rather see TB+ storage on my phone.

lormayna2• 2 years ago

Also FM radio

ethagnawl2• 2 years ago

This was the defining feature of the best MP3 player I ever owned. (I believe it was a Sanyo Sansa.) I wound up using it way more than the MP3 functionality. I was spoiled, living in NYC at the time, but there was/still is so much good content out there, if you spend the time to look (college, community, pirate, etc.).

It's depressing that such functionality is missing from modern devices. Entertainment value aside, it can be a lifeline in times of crisis/emergencies.

lormayna2• 2 years ago

I had a Sansa e140 and it was perfect, it has everything that I needed while commuting and no need to recharge frequently.

heisenbit• 2 years ago

Next you are telling me you want to go back to the time when mobiles needed a whole week to go through a charge. How outdated!

bags435• 2 years ago

Where to move from Samsung A52?

There is no alternative below 1000 EUR.

janice1999• 2 years ago

Check out this search tool: https://www.gsmarena.com/search.php3

It's a great resource to find a new phone by feature set.

bags435• 2 years ago

https://geizhals.at/?cat=umtsover

Even more filters...

JadeNB2• 2 years ago

For me, the microSD slot is the important part, and the Galaxy A54 still has one. No headphone jack, though.

bags435• 2 years ago

Samsung Exynos 1380 is huge downgrade and cam offers no improvement.

scouw2• 2 years ago

Alternative in what sense? I think most, if not all, modern Xperias have both headphone jacks and microSD slots. I'm not sure how they are when it comes to android updates though.

bags435• 2 years ago

Worst. 2 years only with awful track record even for the security updates.

And the price is around 1400 eur.

Zren• 2 years ago

Samsung A15 has a headphone jack, 128gb storage, OLED screen, and SD card slot in the SIM tray.

It should have 4 years of updates too, which at $270 CAD is $5.63 per month of support.

CalChris• 2 years ago

I'm going to side with Apple on this one. Transistors are basically free and ports are expensive and unreliable. I'm happy they've been moving to eSIMs. I'd be fine if my next iPhone only supported wireless charging.

No ports is better.

ActorNightly3• 2 years ago

Development of SOCs for AI is not free though.

Retr0id2• 2 years ago

If they weren't burning cash on AI, they'd be burning it on something equally useless. Smartphones have been more or less feature-complete for years now.

toast0• 2 years ago

I've certainly have had ports fail, but software is worse, and bluetooth is a lot of software. My spouse's phone was able to connect to our van for some time, then a phone software update broke it, and it took 3 months for them to push a new one that fixed it. If it was a wired 4-pin connection for handsfree audio and either port failed, it would probably take less time to get it fixed. (Yes, a 4-pin connection probably leaves out features from Bluetooth, but no agency to fix problems is worse)

I've yet to have a SIM fail on me, and I don't see why I would want to lose out on the convenience of removing the SIM from old phone, and inserting it into the new one. Moving an eSIM requires interaction with the carrier as I understand it.

newsclues• 2 years ago

Headphone jack I’ve not really needed.

But I want a smartphone with a removable battery. Same with laptops.

Let me kill the power. Let me replace the batteries easily.

Give me thicker devices!

jauntywundrkind• 2 years ago

I don't know if we need 8k video, but if it's going to be a feature it sure feels like we should have sd cards. This write-up is talking about 33GB/hr. Given the dinky ass 128GB that seems to be common, and given that the base install is often 30GB+, like, yeah, we need more storage. https://www.androidauthority.com/pixel-9-8k-more-storage-346...

MicroSD cards are fantastic & I'd want them anywhere. But man it's just so preposterous that they have so drastically outpaced phone's builtin storage. 0.5 or 1TB are basically unheard of on phones, but there's plenty of whole SSDs with far more components and cost selling for $50 or less. It's wild. What a supply side economics setup, so many companies all keeping the whole mobile market back, deliberately.

raydev• 2 years ago

I think Apple's aware of the storage limitations with 8k recording and so they won't bother to ship it in software for another couple years.

The utility gap between 4k and 8k video is tiny. I was eager to move from a giant 1080p TV to a giant 4k TV, but I have no desire to buy 8k.

Neither 8k TVs nor 8k monitors have occupied a meaningful amount of the market, and there appears to be not much demand for them. On the gaming side, the latest graphics cards still can't max out settings on most AAA games at 4k/60fps.

ethagnawl2• 2 years ago

While we're dreaming, how about a physical keyboard?

93po2• 2 years ago

and a 28 inch 4k screen, and external mouse

Retr0id2• 2 years ago

To offer an alternative data point, I don't really want any of the above. Just make it cheaper, smaller, and with guaranteed security updates for as long as possible.

The only wired headphones I own are high-impedance """audiophile""" headphones, that a phone couldn't really drive in the first place.

As for storage, I don't do a whole lot on my phone except for messaging and looking things up on-the-go, none of which needs much in terms of storage space. I've had my current phone (iPhone SE3, 128GB) for over 2 years, and I've never even had to delete anything (and when the day comes, I'll transfer the contents of the photo gallery over to external storage).

ActorNightly3• 2 years ago

Multiple USBC ports. Any one can be used as headphone jack, or fit a tiny usb drive that wouldnt stick out much.

627467• 2 years ago

Where is the recurring revenue in a 3.5mm jack or a SD card slot?

fabiofzero• 2 years ago

Yes, absolutely. The AI hype can't die soon enough.

the4anoni• 2 years ago

I agree, that's why I am daily driving Samsung Galaxy S10 (exynos version) on LineageOS.

I miss 2010-2015 smartphone market, it was much more innovative than it's now :(

reify• 2 years ago

How about the option to totally remove google without installing a custom rom.

you start your brand new phone and a pop up appears:

Would you like to remove google and all the other bloatware to start with a blank phone and choose to install exactly what you need and want.

Please click here.

I would then seriously consider buying a new phone instead of slightly older phones I can install custom roms on.

now that would be a thing.

In a perfect world

I have an old Samsung S4 2013 (android 11) and an old Motorola G3 (android 11). I keep the G3 to listen to FM radio as modern phones dont have the FMradio.

My main phone is a onplus 5T with android 14. A superb phone, 8 years old and still runs better than any modern phone my friends own. Cost me £75

jemmyw4• 2 years ago

I've got a Sony Xperia phone from last year. It's got a headphone jack and sdcard slot, waterproof, latest chipset etc. Plus a very close to vanilla Android. Yet they sold so few that Sony are pulling out of the US phone market. It seems to me that folks who say they want those things don't actually want them that much.

rchaud4• 2 years ago

Sony hasn't been relevant in the phone industry since the transition to smartphones. Samsung, Huawei, Lenovo and others sell millions of phones with these features, but the flagship models still exclude them.

jemmyw4• 2 years ago

The early Sony Android phones were available in stores. I remember the first smartphone I got was a Sony, and, compared to a friend's Samsung, it was really lovely, great screen, better feeling build quality. Maybe they never competed on price? I didn't even think about the brand back then, just chose the nicest one in the store.

toastercat• 2 years ago

It seems to me that folks who say they want those things don't actually want them that much.

On the contrary, we do. There's just not enough of us.

a3n• 2 years ago

Ah, Firefly fans.

mouse_3• 2 years ago

yeah but it's $900, used, on Ebay

I absolutely do not have that kind of money

jemmyw4• 2 years ago

Ok. I paid more than that. What you're saying is I want x y and z, and also to be this cheap. But they're obviously catering for a niche market so you have to compromise and can't then just comment with "why can't they..." They would bring those features to cheaper phones if people were buying expensive phones for those features. You don't think it's worth the extra, so they don't think it's worth the effort.

I'm happy to pay a bit more, I use my phone all the time. I would like a folding phone but I don't consider those ready yet, but I'm not posting that all phones should be folding for $200 because they can do it in that model for 1800

paulmd3• 2 years ago

Nobody wants a high-end android cameraphone where the camera firmware self-destructs when you unlock the bootloader.

For better or for worse, the android world is reliant on custom roms if you want long-term software support. Wiping the camera firmware is unacceptable given that reality.

Again, the whole custom rom thing is a bandaid patch on a shitty, user-hostile OS model that makes it nearly impossible to perform a vital function of the computing system (updates). The inability to deliver updates effectively is itself a symptom of a product defect here. It would be better if we could require all companies to provide useful first-party support lifecycles for the products they release.

But sony is deliberately gutting the device’s functionality to prevent you from unlocking it and that’s unacceptable even among android devices. If you’re going to do this shitty custom rom model, vendors that decide to kill even the ability to try and use that bandaid are going to suffer poor sales.

I would love a high-end cameraphone, the Xperia lineup was a serious consideration when I bought my last phone. But I could never get over the hump of buying a device that would have less than 2 years of updates by the time I got it, and that would deliberately self-destruct if I attempted to extend it beyond that.

I got an iPhone instead. Much less user-hostile. Forcing me to use a custom rom is already user-hostile, but to then punish me for doing it is unconscionable.

Oddly enough, there’s not nearly as much emphasis on banging the EU’s door down to stop that kind of waste and really honestly intentional/malicious damage, as there is about whatever apple thing people are whining about this week. Oh no the pelican case full of oem phone repair tooling that apple lets you rent (or buy) is too big/heavy… or Sony phones deliberately self-destruct themselves when you unlock the bootloader… somehow the “we can do both!” reply-guys never get around to doing both. Curious.

sumuyuda• 2 years ago

I got an iPhone instead. Much less user-hostile.

Umm, that’s backwards. You can’t install your own software or unlock the boot loader. As soon as Apple decides the phone is e-waste, you can’t do anything about it unless there is a jailbreak. It just so happens that Apple offers software updates slightly longer than competitors, but this could easily change, as we have seen on macOS where 6 year old Intel macs no longer receive OS support. That is the pinnacle of user hostile.

rbits• 2 years ago

I definitely do, I have never bought a phone without a headphone jack. I feel like that will end soon though, as the line of phones I'm using seems to be dying, and it's the last of its kind.

josefritzishere• 2 years ago

100% agree. I am using my phones headphone jack right now.

93po2• 2 years ago

i would much rather have AI to do routine tasks on my phone for me and change settings without me having to dig through menus

nozzlegear2• 2 years ago

Curious how others feel about this.

I would rather have none of these things, but if I had to choose, AI sounds more useful.

rchaud4• 2 years ago

"sounds" being the operative word. I don't consider being able to erase something on a photo, or add something to be a compelling enough use case. The AI demos I've seen have been pretty pathetic relative to the hype they're trying to build.

nozzlegear2• 2 years ago

I agree for the most part. I'm pretty bearish on most AI stuff, I was not interested in the Apple Intelligence stuff announced at WWDC beyond having a Siri that might be able to answer a question directly instead of sending me to a Wikipedia article.

rchaud4• 2 years ago

3.5mm jack, microSD and removable batteries is the holy grail.

The only reason these aren't included anymore on flagship phones is because companies think they can upsell you on BT headphones, cloud storage plans and extended warranties. They're building for shareholder value, not the customer.

Plenty of midrange and low end phones still come with the jack and microSD, but removable batteries seem to be extinct.

Euphorbium• 2 years ago

Good thing that EU is bringing the removable batteries back.

kingbiz• 2 years ago

Sony is making high end phones that have all these features, like the xperia line. The UI is a little wonky, and you have to degoogle the phone, but after that its pretty solid.

7e• 2 years ago

You’re a boomer; shall I get off your lawn now?

seba_dos12• 2 years ago

My Librem 5 has a 3.5mm jack, microSD slot, removable battery, even removable modem and smartcard, and an OS I fully control. Couldn't be happier. The only thing that bothers me is that it's soon going to be 5 years old and there's still nothing better on the market, and even though it's still usable it's at a point where I expect it to start showing its age rather sooner than later.

craftkiller• 2 years ago

My librem 5 has about 3.5mm of dust on it because the phone is unusable. I appreciate that they made a linux phone, but they didn't make a phone people would actually want to use. Abysmal battery life where "carry a 2nd battery" is actual advice for every-day use. Very slow user interface. So large and heavy that I could murder someone with it. Questionable cellular support where the modem randomly disconnecting in the middle of a phone call can happen.

seba_dos12• 2 years ago

The battery lasts up to a single day, which is short but enough for me. I recognize that it's not a phone for everyone and it has its quirks, but "unusable" is not how I'd describe it after daily driving it for years. Overall I see more advantages than disadvantages when compared to mainstream devices, which is why I continue to use it.

where the modem randomly disconnecting in the middle of a phone call can happen

Fixed 1.5 years ago. It's a fun story BTW: https://fosdem.org/2024/schedule/event/fosdem-2024-3200-univ...

elseleigh• 2 years ago

100%. And I only buy phones with these features.

err4nt• 2 years ago

I love bluetooth headphones for listening to video or even talking, but it has too much latency for realtime music performance (e.g. music making apps, or using your phone as a MIDI instrument with a controller). Having the wired headphone jack without the latency that (any) wireless protocol necessarily introduces is a huge deadlbreaking feature and I never see people defending bluetooth headsets mention it.

slotrans• 2 years ago

My Zenfone 9 has a headphone jack. No SD card slot though, which I don't need.

So yeah, I voted for this position with my dollars, and will continue to do so.

Any phone with mandatory AI crap is Hard Pass.

gepardi• 2 years ago

Amen

cirrus3• 2 years ago

Huh? I don't think one was traded for the other.

WithinReason• 2 years ago

Protip: You can use GSMarena's Phone Finder to find phones with specific features. For example here are phones from 2024 with a headphone jack, SD card slot, FM radio, infrared port and 5G:

https://www.gsmarena.com/results.php3?nYearMin=2024&chk35mm=...

(you can click REFINE to change the options)

mouse_3• 2 years ago

My choices are Xiaomi, Tecno, and Ulefone

thewileyone• 2 years ago

But the Xiaomi has infrared port!

iowemoretohim• 2 years ago

My device has a headphone jack and a microSD slot and I've never used either of them.

In regards of AI I find transcription, summarization, translation and predictive text to be very useful.

1vuio0pswjnm7• 2 years ago

"Some people say give the customers what they want, but that's not my approach. Our job is to figure out what they're going to want before they do. I think Henry Ford once said, 'If I'd ask customers what they wanted, they would've told me a faster horse.' People don't know what they want until you show it to them. That's why I never rely on market research. Our task is to read things that are not yet on the page."

anenefan• 2 years ago

Not that I use android smart phones that much any more in the capacity to replace what a laptop might do, since google's ugly head all too often places too much hindrance on the apps I prefer to use, however I do still use unencrypted microSD for times when bluetooth isn't doing what it's supposed to do to transfer photos or it's just faster to put the card into a reader and look at the contents on a laptop.

AI might seem useful - but sadly on a phone and prepackaged, I only see it becoming a minder in a short time - no thanks.

mingus88• 2 years ago

Maybe we should carry our phones around less often.

I carry a media player, like an iPod. 500GB sd card, balanced and unbalanced headphone outs, and actual physical buttons and knobs for control.

Phones can do everything, but there are too many compromises. Ebook readers, and media players do one thing very well.

You also get a lot of peace when you disconnect from apps, scrolling and notifications and just enjoy your music out in the world.

MyFedora• 2 years ago

This thread is the definition of people who want features that most people don't care about.

Headphone jack? Bluetooth.

Audiophile? DAC.

microSD slot? Cloud storage.

User-removable battery? Power bank.

FM radio? Internet.

Degoogled phone? Really?

webjac• 2 years ago

Nope, that is completely unnecessary to me nowadays. No need for extra storage, m headphones are wireless and the possibility of AI will make me so much more productive. You need to update yourself sir.

yftsui• 2 years ago

Nope, I’d rather my phone has no connector ports at all, get rid of USB-C will be the dream.

snapplebobapple• 2 years ago

#metoo

Opinion: I'd rather have a headphone jack and a microSD slot than AI in my phone

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