AltStore. The first Apple approved alternative App Store

by janandonly • 2 years ago

145 90 2 years ago

TheJoeMan• 2 years ago

Unfortunately paying Apple’s extortion fee might provide ammo to legitimize it.

talldayo5• 2 years ago

Someone ends up paying Apple either way. On the App Store, that person usually ends up being the developer. With the new framework (stupid as it may be), developers can choose to externalize that cost to users and make an example of how ridiculous it is. With high-demand apps like emulators, it's easy to attract users and directly expose them to the limits Apple imposes on them. That's a great vehicle for change, and I fully expect Apple to backpedal on the Core Technology Fee once it attracts broader scrutiny.

It makes perfect sense to me that paying $99/year for the App Store is cheaper than $0.50/install. But you shouldn't have to pay anything to install Free Software in the first place, so I can also see why some people would consider protesting Apple's policy to be invaluable.

nazgu1• 2 years ago

As far as I know to distribute app outside AppStore you need to notarize it, so you need to pay for developer account $99 AND still $0.5 per install

Aloisius4• 2 years ago

Apple waves fees for non-profits (both developer annual fee and core technology fee), so at least qualifying free software organizations don't have to pay anything for either the app store or alt stores.

https://developer.apple.com/support/fee-waiver/

metalspoon4• 2 years ago

That's a common misconception about free software. Free software is about the user's right to see and modify the software. Doesn't mean people can't do business with it. You're right that they usually don't require fee for installation, but that's merely because that the source code is available on the internet, in most cases, and so the user can install it without paying anyway.

nijave• 2 years ago

Can't remember the details but isn't there also an impact to in app purchases and payment methods?

I thought the restrictions/Apple's fee around those were different?

e.x. You average $2 per install on in-app purchases you get $1.40 (30% Apple fees) on app store or $1.50 ($0.50 install fee) on 3rd party store

TillE• 2 years ago

I really can't imagine any circumstance where the European Commission is ok with Apple charging competitors for the privilege of competing with them, in a market explicitly mandated by the DMA.

AltStore or Epic complying with Apple's current dubious terms makes no real difference.

oreilles• 2 years ago

In Switzerland, Delta Emulator is not available in the App Store since Riley made it an AltStore exclusive in Europe. However, you cannot get AltStore either because Switzerland isn't part of the countries where Apple allows alternative stores: https://support.apple.com/fr-fr/118110#countries-and-regions.

neonsunset2• 2 years ago

Even reading the page is mildly infuriating because how far it goes to try to scare people away into using AppStore only.

I have never seen a company resist a legislation with this much effort before.

metalspoon4• 2 years ago

What's more stupid is that I can't install my app to my phone. Because it's supposedly not secure according to Apple.

Even more stupid is that if I pay the annual developer fee to Apple, they let me install it.

soziawa• 2 years ago

It is available for me in Switzerland. In fact, it's the number one app.

mrbombastic• 2 years ago

Can’t you get it through the world sideloading instructions? I haven’t tried admittedly

lapcat• 2 years ago

https://apps.apple.com/ch/app/delta-game-emulator/id10485246...

nar001• 2 years ago

Nope sorry, it's available here.

dainiusse2• 2 years ago

I agree it is cheap, but I want to at least try something without paying.

cush• 2 years ago

It's probably important that consumers vote with their wallet here

Hamuko2• 2 years ago

I don't think they can offer you a trial option when Apple charges them by installs.

dainiusse2• 2 years ago

Agree, it will probably take EU a few more iterations to force Apple making it usable.

rcarmo4• 2 years ago

Unpopular opinion: I'm really not keen on Riley using Delta as a key driver to make EU folk pay for the AltStore. I'd much, much rather get it from the Apple App Store, just like everyone else on the planet--and I'd pay Eur 4.99 for it there, easy, just because I really don't want the hassle of dealing with another App Store.

talldayo5• 2 years ago

Well, now you can add it to the ever-expanding list of iOS apps you just can't use. No need to feel lonely about it though, there's a lot of great free apps that Android users are also locked-out of unless they flip the sideloading switch. Here are just a few: https://f-droid.org/en/packages/

rcarmo4• 2 years ago

Your comparison is pointless (I've been using F-Droid for almost a decade, and that's where I get most "serious" Android utilities today - like Termux and various UI tweaks I can't do without). I am fine with hacking Android (and running emulators on it) because I don't rely on it for work, IM, family or work stuff. It's just a sandbox for me.

But I would have liked to have Delta (and paid for it) on iOS, because that's where I spend most of my time. I'll just wait until RetroArch (or someone else) ships on iOS.

greenavocado• 2 years ago

Sideloading switch on Android? You install F-Droid and then install whatever you want from F-Droid. I'm assuming you mean the "install application from unknown source" pop-up when you open the F-Droid apk from your downloads folder. This is NOTHING compared to the hoops Apple users have to jump through to install third party software.

hx833001• 2 years ago

Yeah that’s too bad since it’s free everywhere else in the world on the App Store.

gnyman2• 2 years ago

Riley posted the following on Mastodon about this:

Getting some Qs about Delta availability, hope this clarifies things!

• Delta is exclusive to AltStore in EU

• Because of Apple’s new dev terms, all downloads in EU cost us €0.50/yr in AltStore PAL and App Store…so couldn’t offer Delta in EU App Stores without making it paid

• App Store only supports one-time paid-upfront apps, so we’d have to pick a price that could support ~years of CTFs

• PAL’s €1.50 covers Delta’s CTF

• We’d make everything free everywhere if it wasn’t for the CTF

https://mastodon.social/@rileytestut/112299267044864020

quotemstr• 2 years ago

What specific apps might this app store distribute that Apple's won't? Apple's insistent that third party app stores enforce Apple's content restrictions IMHO defeats the purpose of the third party app store mechanism.

newaccount74• 2 years ago

Apple changed the rule to allow Gameboy emulators on the App Store days before the Alt Store went live. So even if you don't install the Alt Store, that's already a benefit for everyone.

Competition is a good thing.

mateus1• 2 years ago

Can someone give me examples of good apps other than emulators?

fwn2• 2 years ago

I think by design of the ecosystem it makes the most sense for apps that can't be on the main store.

That would be emulators, uncensored social media, probably apps that do not meet the NSFW policy of the App Store... that kind of thing.

I'm not sure we'll see user-enabling apps for proprietary services like newpipe, because it's still a store, so corporate censorship is to be expected. In that sense, it is far inferior to a true, no store, side-loading ability like on Android, where you can freely install any application you want.

I've managed to get almost all my apps (sans Google apps and banking) to autoupdate through Obtainium on Android. It really feels like the future.

Aloisius4• 2 years ago

Apple requires Alt stores only distribute apps suitable for all audiences (age 4+), so NSFW is out.

ssbash• 2 years ago

Yattee, an alternative to NewPipe, has been available on the AppStore for over a year. Well before there was any pressure from the DMA. https://apps.apple.com/us/app/yattee/id1595136629

AnthonyMouse3• 2 years ago

It seems like one of the major categories should be free software apps that Apple won't put in the store because of the license, e.g. GPL. Can alternate stores distribute those on iOS?

metalspoon4• 2 years ago

It's about the stupid fees for Apple, iirc. So, they'll arrive in the end. Just not now.

gardenhedge• 2 years ago

Apple must be delighted to see this.. Because it's an awful UX

matthewtse• 2 years ago

yes, quite a few hoops to jump through to get something working.

Back in the day, I went through massive effort to jailbreak my iPhone, void the warranty, and use the Cydia app store (amazing that this whole community operated for free).

But slowly the vanilla iPhone experience got good enough that I didn't need to jailbreak anymore, or at least it wasn't worth the effort. And the community died down as well.

Interesting to see the resurgence of a similar concept.

aranelsurion6• 2 years ago

I guess community of it died also because of how difficult/rare jailbreaks got, with some significant time of droughts between jailbreaks. Also jailbreaks had too many downsides; some apps would be too invasive, crash the Springboard, some secure apps (bank etc) wouldn't run, iirc updates weren't possible or hard to do, "tethered" jailbreaks required restoring them each time you reboot etc. etc. Too much day-to-day fighting against the system at the end.

Alternative stores OTOH have a lot more promise, if Apple can't manage to kill them through malicious compliance. They have a lower barrier of entry, and most downsides of JB don't apply either.

Zambyte• 2 years ago

Awful UX relative to the Appstore? How so?

quietfox• 2 years ago

I subscribed some days ago, but still can’t get the download to work, even in Safari as suggested.

aranelsurion6• 2 years ago

I had an issue with the Download button not working the first time as well. The solution was to go back to AltStore homepage, click and go through the checkout process again, at some point it says you already are subscribed and instead of charging you again takes you to the download page, where this time the button works.

At least that's what happened for me, worth a try.

bouk• 2 years ago

Thank you!!

KomoD• 2 years ago

How many apps are there?

aranelsurion6• 2 years ago

Two. Delta the emulator, and a clipboard manager.

I assume there will be a few more soon, though Apple still pushes for notarization and such, making things difficult for the lone hacker developing for fun. So I don't expect as many apps as once cydia had.

It's pretty cool that I can play Chrono Trigger and Pokemon FireRed Rocket Edition on the go though :) I'd love to see Epic bringing Fortnite to AltStore out of spite. :D

Hamuko2• 2 years ago

Is it not possible to add sources to the PAL store?

_djo_• 2 years ago

Epic has already announced they’ll be launching the Epic Games Store on iOS later this year.

https://www.epicgames.com/site/en-US/epicgamessweden

https://twitter.com/epicgames/status/1770500825166545305

AnthonyMouse3• 2 years ago

If an alternate store can have a game emulator, could it also have e.g. an Android app emulator, which in turn could run Android app "ROMs" that aren't individually notarized?

doctorwhat• 2 years ago

The contrast of text and background is really really bad for the muted text. Accessibility related changes would be most welcome.

blackeyeblitzar2• 2 years ago

What does “Apple approved” mean? I know Apple has heavy handed curation, for example requiring various forms of moderation / censorship of social media apps. Can these stores offer whatever they want?

Also what’s with that fee? Why aren’t phones forced to operate like traditional operating systems? Apple shouldn’t be allowed to charge fees for people to install software on devices they own.

sixothree• 2 years ago

Knowing Apple I'd personally be concerned about retribution from them. I feel like something else completely unrelated on my device will stop functioning because I'm a user of the app store.

switch007• 2 years ago

But you'll never be able to prove it

Like my iPhone 12 getting slower and worse battery with each iOS release even with a new battery...

aranelsurion6• 2 years ago

I'm no expert on the matter, but this is what Apple says:

All apps listed on alternative app marketplaces are submitted to a Notarization process with Apple. Notarization is a baseline review that applies to all apps, regardless of their distribution channel, focused on platform policies for security and privacy and to maintain device integrity. Through a combination of automated checks and human review, Notarization helps ensure apps are free of known malware, viruses, or other security threats, function as promised, and don’t expose users to egregious fraud. Apple does not enforce the App Store's high standards for business practices and content on apps distributed through alternative app marketplaces.

So what I understand is that it's a baseline check for security, technical issues etc. Content moderation doesn't seem to be a part of it.

metalspoon4• 2 years ago

Fuck Apple, I never need their check. I'm not a grandma.

gnyman2• 2 years ago

oh it's definitely much more than a "baseline check", it seems to be mostly the same silly rules as the real app store

for example, the developer of Clip (Riley Testut) had to add a pointless "map" function which uses the user's location in order to be allowed to run in the background

The first version I tried used the user’s location to remain active, but was rejected by Apple. Testut then updated Clip with a Map feature — so there’s a reason for the app to remain active in the background — to receive approval.

[1] https://www.theverge.com/24100979/altstore-europe-app-market...

Aloisius4• 2 years ago

Why aren’t phones forced to operate like traditional operating systems?

They are operating like traditional operating systems, namely like game consoles where paying royalties to OS makers for distributing software has been a thing since the Atari/Activision settlement in 1980.

2OEH8eoCRo0• 2 years ago

It's malicious compliance. No judgement afaik says anything about an approval process.

drooby• 2 years ago

Is it me or is the copy on this website terrible? And probably super confusing to laymen.

hcks• 2 years ago

Can’t wait to have to download 20 different marketplaces with UX all uglier than the last

idle_zealot• 2 years ago

The App Store sets a pretty low bar.

1over1372• 2 years ago

Seems this requires an AppleID. So is there no way to sideload without one?

saagarjha• 2 years ago

No.

1over1372• 2 years ago

Darn. For me at least, half the point is to be more anonymous from Apple.

ChrisArchitect• 2 years ago

[dupe]

More discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40067556

worldmerge• 2 years ago

How can I trick my USA based iphone to think it's based in Europe to access these app stores?

AltStore. The first Apple approved alternative App Store

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