Obituary for a quiet life (2023)

https://bittersoutherner.com/feature/2023/obituary-for-a-quiet-life

by conanxin • 2 years ago

1416 286 2 years ago

happytiger• 2 years ago

This is beautiful. Thank you.

I think people don’t understand how important just being there for your family actually is. Sometimes it’s enough just to be reliable, stand for good and just be present. Sounds like he really knew it.

nonrandomstring2• 2 years ago

A Rick Roderick quote comes to mind;

  "" Now, I hate the movie The Big Chill, let me make that clear, and
     I hope I can’t be sued for hating a movie, I hate The Big Chill,
     because it’s about members of my generation, all of whom have
     become swine. The only person in the movie I like is dead when
     the movie starts, and they are having his funeral, and the old
     preacher says something quite profound. He asks the crowd of
     young yuppies, he goes "Isn’t our common life together and just
     being a good man enough to sustain us anymore?" And the answer to
     that is 'No, it’s not'.  ""

pixelmonkey2• 2 years ago

Interesting. I recently rewatched "The Big Chill" and wrote a reflection about the movie vs the internet age:

https://amontalenti.com/2023/12/28/the-blog-chill

ericmcer• 2 years ago

I am struggling a bit with this right now. Being a provider in the modern age means less than it used to. It feels like paying all the bills and being reliable isn’t valued much.

all26• 2 years ago

Your feelings are correct. The role of provider and protector has been largely taken over by the state. And fathers are much maligned at this point in most popular media.

fbdab103• 2 years ago

He’d stolen a school bus as a teenager and backed it over a teacher’s car.

"Boys will be boys" definitely got a lot more mileage than I had previously thought.

qup• 2 years ago

Wasn't said whether he was caught at it

cryptozeus• 2 years ago

A month before he passed, faded and worn down to a wheelchair, his head still popped up when Grandma walked into the kitchen: “Hey thar, pretty girl.”

Aloha2• 2 years ago

Being content is like a drug.

The fire reduces, but does go out, you feel warmth in the familiar rather than the new, and you find yourself beset, wondering whatever you did to deserve this joy.

I hope to sone day some can say the same about me.

monero-xmr• 2 years ago

Being content is not about lack of goals or striving. It’s about enjoying the journey, appreciating what you have, being OK psychologically even if your grand plans don’t come to fruition.

I am always working towards multiple goals in parallel, from short to long to ultra long term. But the cadence of regular life - the routines we do daily and weekly and yearly - are the things that sustain existence. My children, wife, extended family, friends, acquaintances, the holidays, the laughs and stories and memories. I like exercising, I like coffee, I like learning. I can make all the money in the world but the real mass of life is not changed, and money is unnecessary to live a fulfilling life.

Aloha2• 2 years ago

For me at least, it means I'm striving a little less hard, I think is the best way to put it.

I'm still searching for good things, and the next thing, but I'm also enjoying today for today.

davideous3• 2 years ago

The Bible speaks about this:

“But godliness with contentment is great gain, for we brought nothing into the world, and we cannot take anything out of the world. But if we have food and clothing, with these we will be content. But those who desire to be rich fall into temptation, into a snare, into many senseless and harmful desires that plunge people into ruin and destruction. For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evils. It is through this craving that some have wandered away from the faith and pierced themselves with many pangs.” — 1 Timothy 6:6-10 ESV

ako• 2 years ago

Please don’t do this, there are many people and stories that speak to this. Now it looks like you’re claiming this for one particular religion, when it’s completely unrelated to religion.

GeoAtreides7• 2 years ago

Here is the King James version, which I find it much more beautiful (from a literary point of view):

But godliness with contentment is great gain.

For we brought nothing into this world, and it is certain we can carry nothing out.

And having food and raiment let us be therewith content.

But they that will be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and into many foolish and hurtful lusts, which drown men in destruction and perdition.

For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.

grecht• 2 years ago

Very moving. Often, this is called a "quiet, simple life". I like that this obituary does not do that. Being there for your family, acting in accordance with your values and standing up for yourself, being content with what you have - this is not "simple" at all. Someone to look up to.

threatofrain• 2 years ago

What you describe is simple, especially in a wealthy nation during peace. What doesn't sound so simple was leading union politics or rapidly rising through the ranks while deployed abroad. This person was certainly not quiet.

gatinsama• 2 years ago

Simple, not easy

dmje• 2 years ago

Lovely piece, thanks for posting

dzink3• 2 years ago

He is not wrong.

“If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster And treat those two impostors just the same” - R. Kipling

Media riles up those who have been limited or deprived by circumstances. It waves flags and triggers emotions and creates envy and conjures social ladders to political influence, or financial gains, or popularity and public attention, or peaks of history. The reality though is that those apply to the people who don’t know better - the new grads, the hungry and ambitious, the midlife-crisis sufferers, the naive who haven’t encountered bad people or circumstances. If you’ve seen a lot or you know evil, you don’t need a public life where you may attract it. When you know what you have and value it, a quiet life is the best way to protect it. People value privacy when they have something to lose. If you know what you want to do and can do it without attention, you are much better off doing than dealing with collateral damage from unpredictable attention.

The media today is becoming incredibly propaganda filled and charged. This is a highly combustible environment. Big geopolitical risks are coming and publicity risks making you a target.

When low interest rates paid for VC-subsidized press the world was filled with startup success stories and drums up for startups and their potential gains. That meant many promising entrepreneurs took money at unsustainable expected ROI and lost years of their life working for a promise. Another word for that is lottery. When the dust settled having a quiet business and chugging along profitably proved to be like the little mice who survived underground after the asteroid hit.

If you are a cat who just caught a mouse, would you go to a hill to advertise to all local predators that you are about to enjoy fresh meat?

p1esk3• 2 years ago

I don’t know, try to explain your point of view to people like Trump or Musk.

forgetfreeman• 2 years ago

It'd be easier to explain Shakespeare to a fish. Sociopaths aren't generally much for outside counsel.

kunley• 2 years ago

But what for?

People like them are not a point of reference to relate everything, you know

flakeoil• 2 years ago

Maybe the world would have been a better and friendlier place if the two people you mentioned, and others like them, had an attitude a bit more muted and humble.

dzink3• 2 years ago

The world has many more people like them than you think. The reason for that is the media’s propensity to raise people on pedestal over the smallest things and crash and burn that made-up image. Some people find new tools in that kind of experience. Some people have learned how to raise anyone by crafting a narrative for them with money. And some people become addicted to it and the attention they never got as a child.

wuj• 2 years ago

If you know what you want to do and can do it without attention, you are much better off doing than dealing with collateral damage from unpredictable attention.

To achieve this state where one can operative effectively without external validation often requires them to initially engage with the public sphere. This exposure is important to getting opportunities, especially when starting out with no resources. The purpose of working is to be able to transcend this phase and do more autonomous and focused work...

TimedToasts• 2 years ago

If you’ve seen a lot or you know evil, you don’t need a public life where you may attract it. When you know what you have and value it, a quiet life is the best way to protect it. People value privacy when they have something to lose.

That's a wonderful way of framing it. No one is intent on violating my privacy to give me anything, only to take.

acron0• 2 years ago

This comes down to perspective. For example, the state would argue they're violating your privacy to give you safety.

throwaway7h65• 2 years ago

The counterpoint to this is that having “internet status” begets a number of benefits.

For example, when you email support at $bigco you’re more likely to be taken seriously. When you contact a random founder for a meeting, they’re more likely to meet you. You forget to take out the trash from your Airbnb and nobody complains, etc. Basically everything in your life gets a bit easier, because people are more scared to piss off someone with a lot of twitter followers.

urlwolf• 2 years ago

Basically everything in your life gets a bit easier, because people are more scared to piss off someone with a lot of twitter followers

This is terrifying. Status online shouldn't bleed on all those other domains. Using your influence online to get things (or else I will tweet about you and the sky will fall on your head) is petty, and one more bad thing that social media has brought to our lives. Now we have to aim to please those who have amassed followers?

epicureanideal• 2 years ago

“ after a day driving a laundry truck. His bride, Grace, snapped the photo outside their first house.”

Driving a laundry truck.. first house..

Life was so much better a few decades ago.

dewey4• 2 years ago

But then, he also had to serve in war. Medical care was not that advanced, you couldn't read about any niche topic you want online. Easy to see things through rose tinted glasses.

jimnotgym• 2 years ago

He had to serve in Germany during the Korean war. Still he got called up and posted away from his home, so you still have a point. I think it was people born in 1950 that had it easier, especially in the UK, since we didn't go to Vietnam.

onion2k• 2 years ago

I wonder how many people would happily trade access to the web for a world where a laundry truck driver can afford a house. I imagine it's quite a lot.

navane• 2 years ago

He wasn't serving in war, he was deployed in Germany in 49.

fennecbutt3• 2 years ago

That's besides the point. Their dialogue is about how for all our efforts, the rich have only gotten richer and future generations are left in the dirt.

If medical care and peacetime and technology has progressed so much, why hasn't general living circumstances and wealth equity?

CampyBornPool• 2 years ago

Medical care was not that advanced

My great grandfather served in both world wars and went to the hospital exactly once in his life, when he died in his 80s.

listenallyall• 2 years ago

Given the age and location of that house, are you confident it had indoor plumbing?

romanovcode• 2 years ago

I think the land is what's important, not the house

twojobsoneboss2• 2 years ago

Near Fruitland NC for 365k. Not too bad at all https://redf.in/tmYs3p

whycombagator• 2 years ago

Only triple the price of what it sold for in 2017 (126k)

tossandthrow2• 2 years ago

det think you'd be able to drive a truck and buy your first house today also.

No, that house is not going to be in Palo alto, and it is not going to be newly renovated.

His house probably wasn't either.

i think this sentiment stems from an at core inflated expectation to life.

I know of plenty of out if the city places where housing prices hasn't changed over the previous 15 years and where you probably would be able to find subsistence to pay you mortgage and get food on the table.

wenebego2• 2 years ago

Lmao at everyone else coping about how the housing crisis is really not that bad

briHass• 2 years ago

You might have missed that the story is about a man that owned a house in rural North Carolina, where, like many rural areas in the US, it's still possible to purchase houses for 200-300k.

Living in a dense, urban environment close to all the expensive 'luxuries' is exactly the type of life eschewed by the subject of the story.

vjk800• 2 years ago

Fruitland, North Carolina has population of about 2000. Something tells me you too can buy a house while driving a laundry truck if you're willing to move to Fruitland.

dgfitz• 2 years ago

You’re very wrong. Do a search before you pop off in such a self righteous manner.

https://www.redfin.com/city/32644/NC/Fruitland

tirthvora• 2 years ago

Wow! Really moved me. I live in a metro city, and whenever I go back to my village, I envy their lives. It's just them and their families. Small World, but it still has adventures, and most importantly, peace.

A heart-warming Obituary!

ornornor• 2 years ago

Nice read, thank you.

Ray Harrell after a day driving a laundry truck. His bride, Grace, snapped the photo outside their first house.

Ah the days when you could be a delivery truck driver and buy a house… Not so much for us anymore.

alfagre2• 2 years ago

Not in central SF, no. But in the rural midwest you definitely can. Just like that dude.

woutersf• 2 years ago

Yep and they did not have insulation obligations and what not. A house was much simpler back then too (i think). European here so i could be biased.

twojobsoneboss2• 2 years ago

Near Fruitland NC for 365k. Not too bad at all https://redf.in/tmYs3p

fennecbutt3• 2 years ago

I'm not American but I can do this rough: median salary PC Henderson county 37,457 (2022) after taxes $30,858. Mortgage rates seem to be about 8% for 30y fix atm so that's 36,500 deposit with $2017 monthly payment, but at least that's $0 fees.

At $2571 in pocket per month it'll take a while to save that deposit when median rent in that location is apparently $1500 for an apartment,let alone the fact you'll need a car and all your other bills (medical insurance in America I guess).

Then you'll have $500 left over after paying your mortgage every month. Somehow I don't think that's liveable.

Not everyone can crash with their parents while they save a deposit. Not everyone has a partner that works too. Some people have or want to have children. Not everyone works in tech, but boy am I glad I do...least until the machines take over.

orthoxerox2• 2 years ago

You could still buy one if they still built 70m2 houses:

9m2 kitchen 15m2 sitting room 39m2 bedrooms 24m2 bathrooms 6m2 mud room 5m2 of various storage

But why buy/build one if mortgages are cheap?

ttiurani2• 2 years ago

All around us are these lives — heads down and arms open — that ignore the siren call of flashy American individualism, of bright lights and center stage. I’m fine right here is the response from the edge of the room, and that contentment is downright subversive. How could you want only that? the world demands. There’s more to have, always more.

Beautiful writing, and I feel this part especially elevates it.

Going forward, we collectively need to recognize and celebrate these people who know when they have enough for a good life. Who can stop craving more fame, wealth and possession, and just appreciate what they have. Because only by doing so, can we leave enough resources for others, near or far, now and in the future, to have the same.

bigstrat20038• 2 years ago

That part caught my attention as well. There's a danger in the seductive whisper of "you need more". Whether it's material goods, power, fame, or whatever else, pursuing external things like these is a hole which can never be filled. It seems to me that true happiness is to be found inward. If you can learn to find happiness where you are right now, then you can have a good life regardless of your external circumstances.

I had two really powerful insights when I was a teenager. The first was when I got a Christmas gift I really wanted (a walkman iirc), and it struck me that actually having it didn't fulfill me nearly as much as I had thought it would. The other was when my grandpa died, and I would have given anything to have him back (and I still would). These two experiences made me realize that stuff is hollow and unimportant, and what truly matters in this world are people. Being with the people you love is the greatest thing we can have, and unlike material possessions can never be replaced once it's gone.

I think that a simple life is far underrated. If all I ever do is spend time with my family and friends, and make the world around me just a bit better in some small way, I feel like that's enough.

VelesDude• 2 years ago

That is a key lesson of many religions like Hinduism, Buddhism, Taoism etc that the state of contentment comes from within. They have been telling everyone this for decades with mixed results.

Suffering is what happens when expectations do not match with reality. You can still have pain but suffering is that gap.

You hear folks that say "it is the journey that matters" but that implys a destination. I think it is all just one big ’happening'.

If life is a race it is a 100n stroll. And yet many people have convinced themselves that it is a marathon and that everyone else needs to be doing that race otherwise they would be the fool. The joke being that there is no other finish line and that many will go to the grave thinking they havent run the race enough.

alfagre2• 2 years ago

Going forward, we collectively need to recognize and celebrate these people who know when they have enough for a good life.

I see where you are coming from, but that's exactly missing the point. The article is about somebody who wouldn't have wanted to be celebrated by you. Who just wanted to live his life, out of the spotlight. By elevating him and his live to celebration status, that's the oppposite of what he would have wanted. Recognize, sure. A nod in passing, then move on.

jddj• 2 years ago

Telling though, isn't it.

The collective addiction to celebrity shows up even in a context like this one.

ttiurani2• 2 years ago

Indeed, this is a vexing problem.

Role models influence so much of peoples' behavior, that I fear they are needed to change what is considered success. But the people suited to be role models rarely want to be.

I don't know the answer, but hope some of these kinds of people would allow themselves to be (reluctantly) also celebrated.

GeoAtreides7• 2 years ago

the world demands. There’s more to have, always more.

is it really the world? or is it the ad industry? the social media algorithms?

bet if we shutdown the ad industry and accept only sorted by date for social media the world will quiet down tremendously

zilti2• 2 years ago

It wasn't really that different in that regard before social media, you know.

kmarc• 2 years ago

Dunno, I don't use social media, neither see ads (adblock), but the older I get, the more I want to explore, learn about history, travel to places.

I agree with the sentiment (social media / ad algorithms influencing the... influenceables), but I have also met people who are outside these bubbles. Granted they are the bit older folks, pre-smarthpone people, mostly retirees.

alt227• 2 years ago

Ads and social media are not the reason that humans have climbed mountains or sailed unmapped seas for centuries. They are not the reason captain Scott died on a polar expedition.

Seeking fame and fortune is baked into the human condition, all the way back to hierarchy in tribes.

CRConrad5• 2 years ago

> the world demands. There’s more to have, always more.
is it really the world? or is it the ad industry? the social media algorithms?

Those have so much influence nowadays that they pretty much are "the world".

Or at the very least, they're the means for it -- they're how "the world demands".

taco-hands2• 2 years ago

This made me think of Ralph Waldo Emerson's poem "What is success": To laugh often and much; To win the respect of intelligent people and the affection of children; To earn the approbation of honest critics and endure the betrayal of false friends; To appreciate beauty; To find the best in others; To give of one's self; To leave the world a bit better, whether by a healthy child, a garden patch, or a redeemed social condition; To have played and laughed with enthusiasm and sung with exultation; To know even one life has breathed easier because you have lived - This is to have succeeded.

miramba• 2 years ago

That was beautiful and inspiring.

beryilma2• 2 years ago

When I was a college student some 30 years ago, this poem was in my physics textbook. I made a hand-written copy of it to carry in my wallet because I loved it so much. I always thought that the book's author wrote it. This brought back the same feelings I had then after reading the poem. Thanks...

netsharc• 2 years ago

To leave the world a bit better, whether by a healthy child, a garden patch, or a redeemed social condition

Damn, that reminds me of the last part of the movie Living... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t2L8CP31-14

first_log• 2 years ago

Unfortunately not by Emerson. https://avidly.lareviewofbooks.org/2019/08/27/on-fake-emerso...

aconsult1• 2 years ago

Beautiful indeed. It still baffles me how some people have a such gift with words. They can tell stories and make you have feelings, just magical. I know it's a lot of hard work to write like this.

I can write code alright, but I couldn't write words like the author, even if I practice for 100 years.

It has to be a gift.

itisit• 2 years ago

There’s a charm to treating talent as some elusive gift bestowed on others. It elevates the mystery and power of what’s written; you can really get lost in the flow of words. But rest assured, you too given enough reading, writing, and collaboration can write just the same as the author. It’s not magic.

dzink3• 2 years ago

The world is driven by Envy, not Greed. Everyone needs something to look forward to. The stoic find it in the act of showing their kids something new, or the joy of planting a plant and waiting to see how it comes out. But if you think you’ve been deprived of something (money, attention, novelty, experiences, career progression) then you can be wound up like a spring in childhood / early career and overcompensate. You find out eventually, when you’ve burned your time, heart, energy, money, what truly matters to you. And then you may hopefully get more of it to look forward to. Have you noticed that after having 7 kids even Elon Musk started spending more time with at least one of them - by being more of a caregiver than an absentee famous father.

fallous• 2 years ago

There is an admirable maturity and wisdom in understanding the scope of your life and what is important, and working to make the world as you wish it to be within those confines. Too often we aggrandize ourselves by spending time worrying about the problems of the world far beyond our control and do not try and address them in the realms in which we do have some sway.

remoquete• 2 years ago

Beautifully written. For some reason, Beatles' Eleanor Rigby sounded in my head while I was reading this...

"All the lonely people

Where do they all come from?

All the lonely people

Where do they all belong?"

zorrolovsky• 2 years ago

Beautiful writing. It comes at an interesting time for me.

I'm in a full blown mid-life crisis where my state of mind fluctuates between full contentment and wishing I was doing more with life. This article made me think.

On the one hand, I'm content because I come from an unprivileged background. My family was abusive. Me and my brothers struggled with mental health. We ran away from home as soon as we could. Where I was born there were not any decent jobs, so the future was bleak.

Today, I have a decently-paid job in tech, good life/work balance, a nice clean house, and self-caring habits. I have a great mental and physical health, good relationships and a decent financial position. I traveled the world and had incredible experiences. I've got everything I dreamed about when I struggled mentally, physically and financially.

On the other hand, achieving all my dreams took me to a place where my mind says "I've done it all, let's just enjoy what I've got. Let's enjoy life". And that works for a while but then one day I resent being too complacent. I want to do more. Launch projects, earn more money, live more experiences. The voice of ambition says: "you're 45 years old, stop thinking like a 80 year old, move your ass and live more life"

Still working to find that fine balance between contentment and ambition. As a human I'm skeptic I will find the right answer. We tend to work in cycles/moods...

The_Colonel3• 2 years ago

I want to do more. Launch projects, earn more money, live more experiences.

The only thing you need is to stop this idea that living a richer life means earning/spending a lot of money / reaources. There's so much personal development you can do without participating in the materialistic rat race.

amarcheschi• 2 years ago

As a young cs students where even the uni professors tell us there's more about it than just money, what would you say is something regarding personal development to do?

xvilka2• 2 years ago

I would disagree. If you think only about yourself - yes, it's not about the money. But if you want make life of your children, grandchildren, etc better, the only answer is money, building generational wealth.

dakiol• 2 years ago

There's so much personal development you can do without participating in the materialistic rat race.

That takes money, although in a different form: time. I can only enjoy those experiences if I have time for them (and I’m not talking about enjoying them after working 8h during the day, because I end up exhausted and cannot enjoy anything at all). So, in order to enjoy things I need to work less, which means less money. That’s the price. It’s always money

felipefar• 2 years ago

The only thing you need is to stop this idea that living a richer life means earning/spending a lot of money / reaources. There's so much personal development you can do without participating in the materialistic rat race.

If you launch projects to gain fame, sure it is materialistic. But you can work on projects that help you understand things better, or to build the personality you want to have, both of which are the opposite of materialism.

They aren't egoistic as well, because you can then share your solutions with others, which are also going to benefit from it.

krumpet2• 2 years ago

This is my focus. Though admittedly selfish, I'm spending time learning more songs on the guitar, improving my cooking skills, mastering a new language, etc. Once our children are out of the house, I plan to also become more involved in supporting our community.

It took time to understand that my time is better spent supporting our kids' activities and maintaining an organized home than chasing another promotion.

famahar• 2 years ago

Have you considered getting into art? I find art projects to be big motivator and fills me with ambition. The great thing is I do it for myself so I can feel content knowing I don't need to fulfill the needs of an audience. You can be ambitious as you want. Making concrete sculptures, woodworking,oil painting, restoring old furniture, developing a game (physical or digital), writing short stories, researching and writing a book or zine on a random niche subject. I find that making art fills that hole that exists when I'm not doing much in life.

badpun• 2 years ago

I tried getting into some forms of art (mostly drawing) many times, but in the end I always find it contrived and pointless. Basically a more taxing version of playing bingo to pass the time.

padraigf• 2 years ago

I just got a new book on this subject: Midlife: A Philosophical Guide, by Kieran Setiya (https://www.amazon.co.uk/Midlife-Philosophical-Guide-Kieran-...). Not got too far into it, but I like it so far.

herodoturtle• 2 years ago

Thanks for sharing, and congratulations on your achievements (especially considering your beginnings).

You and I are of similar age, and have a similar backstory, so if I may, I’d like to suggest the following:

Help others.

For me my midlife crisis was quickly eradicated when I turned my surplus time and resources to assisting the needy through volunteer work.

I hope this resonates with you - it was a significantly positive turning point in my life, which gave me a great deal of perspective and gratitude.

goodpoint3• 2 years ago

Launch projects, earn more money, live more experiences.

Pick one.

The "grind" mindset about money for the sake of money is the opposite of personal growth.

cik• 2 years ago

I completely relate to this. At 41 years old, I met my life's goal, a goal I never thought I would attain (and it's not wealth). Rather than be empowering and celebratory, that turned out to be debilitating, taking me years, until I found a new path. I'm still starting down that path, but at least now I have a goal that will take me 20-25 more years.

People will tell you to focus on you. People will tell you to focus on money. People will tell you to focus on neither. The reality is that what motivates you, gives you meaning, and continues to propel you might change. There's no right answer, and that's healthy. The process, I think is the important part, no matter how painful that may be.

slaucon• 2 years ago

what’s the new goal?

zikduruqe• 2 years ago

“A young boy became a monk. He dreamed of enlightenment and of learning great things. When he got to the monastery he was told that each morning he had to chop wood for the monks fires and then carry water up to the monastery for ablutions and the kitchen. He attended prayers and meditation, but the teaching he was given was rather sparse.

One day he was told to take some tea to the Abbot in his chambers. He did so and the Abbot saw he looked sad and asked him why.

He replied every day all I do is chop wood and carry water. I want to learn. I want to understand things. I want to be great one day, like you.

The Abbot gestured to the scrolls on shelves lining the walls. He said, ‘When I started I was like you. Every day I would chop wood and carry water. Like you I understood that someone had to do these things, but like you I wanted to move forward. Eventually I did. I read all of the scrolls, I met with Kings and and gave council. I became the Abbot. Now, I understand that the key to everything is that everything is chopping wood and carrying water, and that if one does everything mindfully then it is all the same.'” [1]

Keep chopping wood and carrying water.

[1] https://www.sloww.co/enlightenment-chop-wood-carry-water/

keiferski• 2 years ago

I’m not an expert on Buddhism but this anecdote/story has never been particularly insightful to me. One criticism I have is that it treats Enlightenment/knowledge etc. as a single transferable piece of knowledge, and seems to not notice the impact of process and undergoing the ritual. “The journey is the destination” and so forth.

Chopping wood and carrying water may be the answer, but you might not realize the significance of that answer without deeply probing the question.

itronitron• 2 years ago

... and with that the young monk became enlightened. The next day they chopped a little less wood and carried a little less water.

eggdaft2• 2 years ago

I’ve achieved everything I set out to in life, at least everything I have control over and set out to do when I was in my 20s.

I’ve added a new ambition after some thought, not sure if I’ll manage to squeeze it in.

But I see the second half of my life now as predominantly about “service”. I think it’s important for everyone to have a life, to do the things they love, to follow some ambition or passion and take care of themselves. But we then need to ensure we help others do the same.

So my focus now is on my parents, family members, my partner, and society. I’m very grateful I had the health and opportunity to build and see what I wanted. Now it’s payback. I still do selfish things - I have to in order to stay sane - but the focus is on service.

616c• 2 years ago

I for one would like to see you write more about this.

JackMorgan• 2 years ago

I feel the same. I spent the first 15 years of my career climbing out of poverty. Now, I've got stability, so the last few years I'm focusing on service towards others.

I've been volunteering for the last two years as a firefighter, and yesterday just finished the required ride alongs to complete my EMT. It feels good to deeply integrate with my local community, caring for neighbors when they need help. Between emergency response and a software engineer apprenticeship program I run I am spending a significant amount of time each week on community service. I feel safer and more connected to my community than ever before. It's been amazing for my anxiety.

bumby• 2 years ago

I see the second half of my life now as predominantly about “service”.

David Brooks articulates this sentiment well in his book “The Second Mountain.”

jasondigitized• 2 years ago

Learn, then earn, then return.

FL33TW00D• 2 years ago

https://www.gutenberg.org/files/10378/10378-h/10378-h.htm#li...

_wire_• 2 years ago

It's at this point that you may discover you have something you want to give, to your family, community, yourself. Your prosperity is the beginning of freedom. Very lucky position. Also very painful when you come into contact with others suffering, but this must be faced. You have something to give, which is full of meaning.

Hendrikto• 2 years ago

I want to […] earn more money

Why? Money is a means to an end. What would that buy you, given that you said you achieved your goals and got everything you need.

Do you think you will look back on your life and wish you had made more money? I do not.

lettergram• 2 years ago

Everyone I’ve ever known who struggled in this manner has narrowed it down to lack of purpose.

If you have a reason to live, it’s not ambition that keeps you going, nor contentment. It’s a reason to do something. My buddy finds purpose in personal improvement (working out a couple hours a day), I find it in shaping the future and being with my little ones.

Traveling, luxury, comfort is not a purpose. It’s fine; but it’s not food for your soul, so to speak. One easy thing to do is join a community and contribute in someone (that breeds purpose as people rely on each other).

javajosh• 2 years ago

There is a discontent that is fundamental to creation. After all, if what exists was enough, then why create anything? The wide variety of human personalities (on a long timescale) and moods (short timescale) is nothing less than Nature performing a great Search. What She is searching for is unknown, past mere survival. It makes sense to me to place that discontent in the context of a broader survival, the survival of the species, long-term. Something that other life cannot contemplate or work towards, but we can. And insofar as we are embedded in an ecosystem, it means protecting Life on Earth, and also spreading it beyond Earth. Lives well lived, quietly, like this man's, are both a triumph and a dead-end, simultaneously. It seems reasonable that a wide diversity of lives are needed and wanted by nature, or we wouldn't have them, and all of them are useful in their way.

coldtea• 2 years ago

On the other hand, achieving all my dreams took me to a place where my mind says "I've done it all, let's just enjoy what I've got. Let's enjoy life". And that works for a while but then one day I resent being too complacent. I want to do more. Launch projects, earn more money, live more experiences. The voice of ambition says: "you're 45 years old, stop thinking like a 80 year old, move your ass and live more life"

Is that "voice of ambition" your voice, or just what society or peers or media influencers (like grind vloggers) conditioned you to want?

detourdog• 2 years ago

I know what you are saying and the best I can come up with is to keep the ambition but give up on the result. I find this keeps me actively involved in things but with no expectation on outcome. When things do come to fruition I find I'm pleasently surprised that everything came together.

rors• 2 years ago

You've managed to move on from a situation where you were deprived of security, both with respect to love and money, to a new situation where you are secure at a relatively young age. That's a huge achievement. I would suggest first contemplating what you have achieved. You sound like an ambitious individual, and you should recognise how much you have done from a poor start.

It's natural that the things you once craved were things that would lead you to achieve your goal of security. It's also natural that now you are secure, you no longer need money etc. If you're still ambitious, then you are now in the lucky position where you can be a bit more playful. You have bought yourself the opportunity to try new things, to explore your values. To think about what really excites you.

Don't feel bad that you don't know what those are yet. You've gone from meeting existential needs to now thinking about fulfilment. What an exciting time of your life!

karl11• 2 years ago

Check out the movie "Perfect Days"

topherjaynes2• 2 years ago

I've never heard of the film, but the trailer looks great. Thanks for sharing!

Cthulhu_• 2 years ago

It sounds like you need a hobby, or some kind of activity that isn't work or to make money. Others suggested volunteer work, but it could be joining a hobby community or developing a hobby for that matter. I have colleagues that train for big sporting events, know nerds that organize get-togethers for their nerdy activities and work on outfits, and perhaps a previous generation, but people would go to the pub after work to chat shit and watch sports. A third place, as it's also called.

The article mentions a lot of family, I believe that's one thing my grandparents did as well; with seven kids, most of which who have kids of their own, that's a lot of birthday parties to attend.

waihtis• 2 years ago

I took me a long time to realize it, but the "right" answer here is to focus on living one day at a time, regardless how far or close you're currently setting your aim towards.

ip26• 2 years ago

What is the reason you want to do more?

For me, struggling and learning is what I enjoy. Within that framework, it’s not about payout or fame, only the worthy challenge. As I begin to realize this about myself, I have become less worried about measuring achievement, which removes a good deal of the pressure.

__MatrixMan__• 2 years ago

I'm not the person you asked, but for me it's that I'm interested in solving problems. Not for money or recognition, but because I don't want to tolerate the problem anymore. If seeing it solved means doing more, then I have to do more.

pipnonsense• 2 years ago

I am also 45 and on a similar current situation as you (although I luckily come from a privileged background). One thing that is working a lot for me is trying to become a professional fiction writer.

There is a lot a of ambition and uncertainty in it. I always enjoyed writing (whatever the context, not only fiction) and now I enjoy getting better at writing fiction. I enjoy being part of a group of other wanna-be writers with the same goals and challenges. I made real friends this way. I enjoy listening podcasts, videos, interviews from experienced authors. I am even enjoying more working on some software side-projects that are related to literature (in general or my own).

At the same, there is very little chance that this endeavor will have any financial return. In Brazil, where I live, you can count in the dozens the number of writers that live solely from the income of book royalties and in the hundreds the number of writers that live from literature (royalties + workshops, online courses, literary services, etc).

So, even some successful authors that have decent number of readers (for Brazil's context) and some awards, have a day job.

This, interestingly for me, who has a well-paid job, removes the pressure of this project of mine. Since it is an art project, to not have the pressure of needing to earn money, actually makes my art better, I have more patience and time to reflect upon it (ironically, increasing my chances to earn money through my art).

But I still have the pressure to earn readers. It's not like I am painting paintings that I am happy enough to complete and leave them on my house studio. I am not doing art for myself, but for others. That's where the ambition part come from. Which I like.

I don't think this comes from a mid-life crisis, as I write short stories since my twenties. It's only now that I have the time, money, and, I might say, wisdom to be able to do it seriously. Writing is one form of art that benefits a lot from like experience.

Just to share what worked for me, and maybe you can find something for you that fits the bill of being an ambitious project that you hope to achieve something meaningful from, but that it's not necessarily attached to financial outcomes. The privilege of being able to be professional about something that might not return more money, even if successful, is something that I treasure a lot.

Projectiboga• 2 years ago

Listen to the call to do. Many great ideas and new business models came from those in their 40s. The other tack is to do some kind of giving back, not so much money but something for love not profit. You have perspective from arising from suboptimal conditions.

paulddraper• 2 years ago

I would encourage you to be ambitious, in the ways that count. (Not necessarily just financial)

Joy is in accomplishment and responsibility.

hammock• 2 years ago

Do you have children?

DontchaKnowit• 2 years ago

Im kinda in the same boat. Recently got a dog and have been finding absolute bliss in literally just sitting in the grass with him for like 30 mins at a time. Really is the highlight of my life at this juncture and im totally cool with that.

mck-• 2 years ago

I used to struggle with this too, until I started studying Stoicism. Here's a quote from Marcus Aurelius’ meditations 6.15 that I think about often:

“Ambition means tying your well being to what other people say or do. Self-indulgence means tying it to the things that happen to you. Sanity means tying it to your own actions."

spxneo• 2 years ago

1) change your environment temporarily

2) let new perspective come to you

3) implement what your own introspection tells you

I've seen successful people become addicted to drugs because they let their minds idle and they lost perspective.

Remember the devil doesn't come with bulls and horns. It comes bearing gifts to hook you in.

myself248• 2 years ago

If that itch might be saying "do more to shape the future", one way to scratch it is by working with young people. Mentor a robotics team or something.

martin82• 2 years ago

Get a child.

topherjaynes2• 2 years ago

I agree. Very similar situation; I can't help but feel like I am the middle-aged trope in movies; best of luck finding the answer; if you do, please share!

silexia• 2 years ago

The biological purpose of life is to have children. Try that.

notincel• 2 years ago

This is nice story.

That said, I feel like the people praising "the quiet life" are missing that this man found a companion at ~20yrs old and with that companion had a family and kids and grand kids.

Plenty of people never find that anchor/base/partner

https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2021/10/05/rising-...

It's arguably easy to be content when you have good support around you. Bad or no support and it's much harder.

keenmaster• 2 years ago

Sometimes contentment is followed by a good partner, not caused by one. To reach that state of contentment usually requires some mix of effort and satisfaction with the outcomes of that effort and ultimately your confidence in your ability to maintain and grow the things you value in life. If you worked hard but the outcome isn’t good - why? If you achieved a good outcome (like a solid degree, a good job, and/or home ownership) but are particularly unsatisfied - why? If you’re not confident in your future - why? It’s not a requirement to settle these questions before finding companionship, but it helps.

No doubt a good partner multiplies contentment, but they shouldn’t be facing a void of it either. Lastly, if you find that your contentment is being pulled and pushed and stomped on by external factors, then do what is needed to gain control of it again - anyone can achieve this, and if someone in a land of possibility thinks they’re the exception, that the world really is getting in their way, they’re holding themselves back with that very thought.

iorrus• 2 years ago

I have to agree, it’s unusual the way the writer described this man as living a “quiet life”. He was the head of the union in what was likely a major employer and had a large family along with probably a large extended family.

He didn’t seek fame but I wouldn’t describe this man as a quiet one, he probably lived in a rich social network full of visitors, work colleagues, veterans, friends etc. There are very few people aside from egotists who seek large scale recognition for their work etc.

nojvek• 2 years ago

I was watching a video about Stanford long term happiness study https://youtu.be/IULhd1UuicA?si=6YezvfwZ5NE5ile6

The takeaway being what you mentioned. Having a long term loving caring relationship is the biggest indicator.

CRConrad5• 2 years ago

You make a not uninteresting point, but your choice of user id detracts considerably from it.

gardenhedge• 2 years ago

Quiet Life
stolen a school bus

catoc• 2 years ago

Current no 2 on HN: “What will humans do if technology solves everything?” https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40029456

A: finally all live like Ray Harrell

Aeolun• 2 years ago

I feel like this is the truth for the vast majority of people?

Nobody I know is out to do more than live their lives as best they can, and then pass away quietly and contendedly. In between there’s a ton of challenges. Many more than I’d ever have expected growing up or only looking at Facebook, but everyone makes it work.

rabuse• 2 years ago

Step foot into Miami or LA and you'll see the gaudy extremes of wealth accumulation. I live in Fort Lauderdale for a long time, and it blew me away how miserable a vast majority of the wealthy truly were. Meeting a lot of them in my younger 20's, believing they must be "living the dream", only to later find out it was a facade most of the time, completely changed my mind on "getting rich". Living modestly with no attachment to material things is the way to be.

nsxwolf• 2 years ago

As a former Miata owner I always noticed that the price of a convertible roadster is inversely proportional to how often the top is down.

Whenever I'd see something like a Z4 or better, the top would be up even on the absolutely most beautiful days, and the person driving it just looked utterly joyless.

spicyusername• 2 years ago

It's a very nice obituary. I have similar feelings about my own grandfathers. They were figures that seemed larger than life.

Though, I confess, I think I must have a different definition of "quiet life".

My definition of "quite life" doesn't include perennially hosting family Christmas, backpacking across Europe, being the president of a textile union, and getting shipped off to Korea in the military.

To me, those sound like activities of someone not living a quiet life, hah. But maybe these days the bar for quiet life is set at not participating in social media or moving to a major metropolitan area.

Either way Grandpa sounds like he was a righteous dude.

lulzury• 2 years ago

Being content doesn’t mean being blind. It means knowing the difference between a good fight and a selfish one.

I recently watched the movie Perfect Days (2023) and found a similarly resonant theme of contentment and simplicity in life.

It makes one stop and wonder why one often tends to let so many external things drive our lives, happiness, and contentment when things can be so much simpler if we just start to try to see the beauty in what we already have.

jp0001• 2 years ago

Amazing writing. Reminds me of my grandfather.

I’ve thought about it this way, you have four options in life: - not rich, not famous - not rich, famous - rich, famous - rich, not famous

The last one is the best, IMO. And by rich, I mean to not need for anything. And that means having your ego in check. The worst thing I’ve ever witnessed is a literal 100+ millionaire with no peace, still trying to impress people of their wealth and self importance.

bibelo• 2 years ago

A Quiet Life, by TEHO TEARDO & BLIXA BARGELD:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OiPVgAhRE6E

resolutebat• 2 years ago

If you liked this, you may appreciate much of Einsturzende Neubauten's newer work:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Einst%C3%BCrzende_Neubauten

(The older stuff involves mutilating shopping carts with power equipment and is more of an acquired taste.)

seatac76• 2 years ago

Beautiful article. Glad to see Bitter Southerner here. They have a wonderful perspective of the South.

If y’all are in the market for a good coffee table book: Waffle House Vistas is very interesting.

Link: https://bsgeneralstore.com/products/waffle-house-vistas-2-0

jrwiegand• 2 years ago

This is a wonderful piece and I am glad that I came across it. The line that really hit home for me is the description attached to the photos with his girls. I have two young girls now and I take it to heart that right now may be the best time in my life. This sentiment has been something I have heard from many people about their children at this young age. This is just more confirmation to slow down pay attention.

pictureofabear2• 2 years ago

That hit me the hardest as well. For me there is no greater purpose in life but to connect with others. It's especially meaningful when it's your own children.

rubicon33• 2 years ago

Appreciate you posting this. For what it's worth, I'm in the same boat.

I basically achieved my goals in life and am now very comfortable. I could just continue to work and keep up-to-date and find myself old and tired in short time.

I'm poignantly aware of this window of opportunity which is closing. I'm still young(ish), and still have some physical and mental energy... The question is what will I use it for? What would bring me happiness when I am old, sitting in a wheelchair, recounting my life?

As someone who has struggled with mental health most of their life I have vowed to never have kids. For many, children are the answer to this existential question. For myself it will need to be something else and I'm not sure yet what that is. To be honest, I'm worried I may never find it. I was lucky enough to find my first passion (software) but after so many years, the mind yearns for new experiences and to produce something of meaning, something I can be proud of.

gen2204• 2 years ago

For what it's worth, you can still have an impact on youth without being a parent yourself. There's gradations from adoption and fostering to teaching and mentoring. Empathetic inter-generational experiences are beautiful for everyone involved in them. As you age, it literally keeps you young.

mikhailfranco• 2 years ago

Just work on a side project, artistic longing, hobby, craft skill, church, new language, charity, ... And if those are ill-formed for you, or lacking a pull, just go travelling...

Give yourself a deadline. Not a deadline to achieve, but a deadline to decide.

Stay in your country, explore the east and the west, the loud and the quiet, the beautiful and the ugly. And pay complete attention to every person in front of you, at all times, in attentive and generous detail.

Travel a continent, or the world. Start somewhere you have curiosity to be satisfied: proximity, historical knowledge, smattering of the language, distant family history, old friend, current networked contact... Then just go.

Don't be instagram-deluded and selfie-stick blind. Commit to not taking any photos, it's a liberation. Let loved-ones know you are safe, but no reporting back to a once-before and never-again esteemed group of fake friends. Yet always look at everything with a photographer's eye - still and moving. Look. See. Be still. Be moved.

Focus on something concrete, but unimportant, where the journey will be the objective. A pilgrimage, the museums of Europe, a long distance trail, the temples of Asia, a minimal beach, a bustling third world city. Become a short-time expert in the music scene, enjoy a local festival, work on a local farm or fishing boat. Understand tea or tea tree oil, spinning or spinakkers, avocadoes or cocoa, crab fishing or craps tables.

Put quiet aquisition of wisdom above loud narrow achievement.

Stay, linger, go.

Watch, wait, listen, decide.

I promise you will soon have some important personal decisions to make.

zackmorris• 2 years ago

I have two thoughts on this: it's important to find contentment regardless of situation, but I would caution against settling for less.

I've noticed that as more and more aspects of the American dream have been stripped of us by the uber-rich in recent decades, a certain kind of fatalism has settled into our collective psyche. There's a sense now that the quiet life is out of reach, regardless of income. That wages will never rise fast enough to keep up with the rising cost of housing. That there are just more and more and more people everywhere, that our heritage is being gentrified. That the hustle and bustle has nearly eclipsed most personal interaction. Basically that the worsening struggle of postmodernism has replaced community, tradition, and so on.

Ironically I had welcomed tech/progress up through the late 1990s, because young people today may not realize how ignorant times were then, when shows like All in the Family may as well have been documentaries. If you watch Saved by the Bell and Napoleon Dynamite, notice how there's no real technology, and there's an impression that the future is coming, but at a glacial pace. It wasn't like today, where if something hasn't been invented yet, it just means you haven't searched hard enough for it on the internet. We still had science instead of manifestation, so nobody told us how much our dreams mattered, only that we should put our noses to the grindstone.

Now in middle age after a lifetime of hard work with little to show for it, I find myself asking what all of this is for. What's the point of tech if it just makes you work harder? Shouldn't it make life easier, and bring more money and resources your way? And I think a lot about people who are good for nothin. Energy vampires who suck the life out of you when you're trying to make progress. They used to be people like me, angstful cynics who pointed out the absurdity of the modern world, who took solace in shows like South Park. Today they're the thought leaders and billionaires who vacuum up all available capital and lobby the government to take away our freedoms. What good are they if they only take but never give?

The key part of the article was unions. You want the quiet life, you've got to organize. This lone wolf, rugged individualist, pull yourself up by your bootstraps dream of winning the internet lottery was a bill of goods. Because winner takes all, and odds are it ain't you. I've been trying for a quarter century and if I knew then what I know now, I never would have started down this road.

I'm shifting my focus to a resource economy where basic necessities are provided by scalable technologies that can't be taken away by concentrated wealth. Where the difference between what employees are billed out for and what they are paid accrues ownership in a business, the same as capital put up by investors. Or that difference is accounted for in tax write-offs, pensions, retirements, social security, and so on. Where job applicants can see that discrepancy in public accounting records and choose not to apply to businesses that exploit them. So that we can all start getting paid what we're worth and build an economic system around improving the human condition instead of feeding off it like vampires.

instagraham• 2 years ago

Radiohead's "No Surprises" always gave me this vibe, and made me yearn for a quiet life right from college.

nntwozz• 2 years ago

It is no bad thing to celebrate a simple life.

Not actually Tolkien but it's in the movies.

ErigmolCt• 2 years ago

It is able to bring a sense of peace and fulfillment

treflop2• 2 years ago

I’ve met and seen a lot of people in life and while it’s nearly impossible for a life to be stress-free, the content and successful people I’ve seen — poor, rich, whatever — seem to share one commonality: they found their passions in life, whether be it running a successful company, working with charity, hanging with neighborhood inline skate friends or raising cattle in the country side, and they get to do it nearly everyday.

Everyone else is just packing for an inevitable trip that they know they are going on but they don’t yet have destination. They try to bag all the milestones and pocket all the supplies that they may need, but without a goal, it is an endless journey without a chance of satisfaction.

Unfortunately, the difficulty is finding your passion. There is no way to discover it without somehow stumbling across it, which takes a lot of time and money and only becomes more difficult with age and increased responsibilities.

heresie-dabord• 2 years ago

the content and successful people I’ve seen — poor, rich, whatever — seem to share one commonality: they found their passions in life
Everyone else is just packing for [...] an endless journey without a chance of satisfaction.

With no offence to you and all the fine people whom you know/have known, I think it's clear that there is no regret in living a good, kind, caring life without seeking a "passion" or consumerist distortion. Many millions more people have lived the former than have lived the latter.

treflop2• 2 years ago

Living a good, kind, caring life is a passion to me. You have to discover it.

Shinchy• 2 years ago

This is a great analogy.

cal85• 2 years ago

This feels like circular logic, assuming “your passion” means a pastime that will make you happy.

ativzzz• 2 years ago

Not quite, passion here is something that gives you purpose. Something that you look forward to when doing something you don't want to do (work, chores, etc). A reason for getting out of bed in the morning. Something you think about all the time

uwagar2• 2 years ago

everybody dies of cancer man. what the heck. why?

XCSme• 2 years ago

I guess there always has to be a reason for death?

uwagar2• 2 years ago

not sure if historically cancer was this prevalent.

ohans• 2 years ago

“…I realized that a quiet life isn’t a passive life…”

The importance of finding such balance makes all the difference.

Beautiful writing.

lcuff• 2 years ago

Evokes my favorite Warren Buffett quote

"Basically, when you get to my age, you'll really measure your success in life by how many of the people you want to have love you actually do love you."

csours• 2 years ago

I came across the quote "Happiness is a choice" recently. I haven't read the context yet (Suppliants by Aeschylus); but I feel like "Working towards removing unhappiness and increasing happiness is a choice" is a more complete idea.

sergiogjr• 2 years ago

A nice personification of the common man from G.K. Chesterton, like uncountable others we will never hear about outside our own real life circles.

pmorici• 2 years ago

Nicely written. I’m a bit confused about the part that seems to conflate individualism with fame or notoriety.

pictureofabear2• 2 years ago

He said, "flashy American individualism," so he was talking about a specific brand of individualism that covets fame and notoriety, not individualism in its broader meaning.

whatever1• 2 years ago

Scrolling and found 0 mentions of Aristotle.

lloeki• 2 years ago

Reminded me of the last verse of a French fable, The Cricket (a.k.a True Happiness):

    "Pour vivre heureux, vivons cachés."

    - Jean-Pierre Claris de Florian - Le Grillon†, Fables, 1792

Here's my quick-and-dirty attempt at a translation:

    Poor little cricket
    Hidden in grass flowery
    A gliding butterfly
    Beheld in the prairie.
    The winged insect of bright colours shining;
    Cerulean, gold, crimson burst on his wings;
    Young pretty little master, he runs flower to flower,
    Taking and leaving every which is prettier.
    
    Ah! Said the cricket his fate and mine
    Are quite not alike! Mother Nature
    Gifted him all, and to myself nothing.
    Of talent bereft, of face even less.
    Disregarded down here, none take notice:
    I just as much might not exist.
    
    As he rambled, in the prairie
    A childish troupe comes happily:
    Chasing they are hastily
    The butterfly they so envy.
    Hats of all sorts to catch their game;
    The insect twists and swerves in vain,
    And soon enough becomes their prize.
    
    A wing taken, a body seized,
    A head now gone, a swift demise:
    Little effort has it taken
    To tear apart the beast fallen.
    
    Oh! Oh! Cricket said, I am no more irate;
    Too high a price it is to shine.
    How I will love my deep retreat!
    To live happy, live discreetly.

† https://www.laculturegenerale.com/le-grillon-fable-jean-pier...

jrh3• 2 years ago

Great man. Great life. Not a "flashy" life but sounded full of "American individualism" as I have always thought of it.

Obituary for a quiet life (2023)

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