Apple's iMessage avoids EU's Digital Markets Act regulation

https://www.macrumors.com/2024/02/13/imessage-avoids-eu-regulation/

by danaris • 2 years ago

109 194 2 years ago

no_wizard• 2 years ago

I wonder if this will lead to a reversal on supporting RCS, as I feel it was motivated to keep regulators at bay and now that iMessage is found to be exempt I don’t know if Apple has any incentive to follow through

ComputerGuru2• 2 years ago

Apple doesn't care about deliverability as a moat. RCS won't moot the blue bubbles so they have no reason not to implement it.

tsunamifury• 2 years ago

As someone who is intimately familiar with this, iMessage in America has been considered the strongest sales moat of the iPhone of all for years.

kmeisthax• 2 years ago

RCS is there to head off further antitrust laws (e.g. in the US) that might force them to open up their messaging platform. Announcing RCS and then canning it the moment they head off one jurisdiction's first attempt at a law would be counterproductive.

lxgr10• 2 years ago

I think they'll still implement it.

RCS is a bad enough protocol to not present a real alternative to iMessage while allowing Apple to truthfully claim that they're supporting the thing that Google has been pointing to for message interoperability all these years.

sircastor2• 2 years ago

They're still trying to hold off regulation in the rest of the world, and the DMA only applies to European Union markets.

zinekeller• 2 years ago

I'm not surprised by the iMessage decision*, but on the Bing case I'm personally still on the bench. I guess that API-only use is exempt from DMA?

* Americans, virtually no one uses iMessage outside your country, or at least to the point that it'll force you to get an iPhone. Even Japan, with their love with iPhones, uses a homegrown service for their messaging needs.

sakex3• 2 years ago

Most Swedes I know use iMessage actually. That's very anecdotal tho

soco• 2 years ago

Swiss datapoint: my whole extended family/friends circle has iPhones and they only use WhatsApp (and FaceTime for video). I'm not even sure I ever heard the name "iMessage" before.

10729287• 2 years ago

French here. I still use iMessage for family and friends one to one discussions but group chats are exclusively on WhatsApp here… and I’ve got tons. Too much. For every circle and sometimes more than one per circle depending on the subject. Are US people using iMessage for this ?

SiempreViernes• 2 years ago

I think this mostly tells us you are an American with an Iphone, in Sweden other apps are popular to the point that the Mac media celebrates the release of an WhatsApp beta: https://www.macworld.se/article/2077773/whatsapp-kommer-antl...

monsieurgaufre• 2 years ago

Most canadians use iMessage as well. Or FB Messenger. Still anecdotal.

stephen_g• 2 years ago

Plenty of people use it in Australia…

thejohnconway• 2 years ago

Pretty common in the UK. I think iMessage is common in English speaking countries with high iPhone usage.

gmac• 2 years ago

I use SMS/iMessage for most one-to-one messaging, but never for group chats. For groups, I use only WhatsApp and a little Signal. I'm in the UK.

tremarley2• 2 years ago

It’s common in the UK, but it isn’t the most used messaging app.

WhatsApp is more common in the UK

troad• 2 years ago

I think iMessage is common in English speaking countries with high iPhone usage.

I can confirm that iMessage is extremely common in Australia. WhatsApp is very uncommon, outside of people with European (and maybe South American?) friends or family to keep in touch with. And given the country's demographics, I suspect there are far more people using WeChat to keep up with their overseas contacts in Aus than there are people using WhatsApp.

piltdownman• 2 years ago

WhatsApp is almost the de-facto standard for messaging in Europe, with cash transfers usually seconded to Revolut.

iMessage in the US is, to put it bluntly, a self-selecting cult. The amount of articles, podcasts and dating vlogs that detail how common it is to straight up discount a member of the opposite sex from dating based on not having an iPhone is testament to this.

In an OKCupid Poll (which is about as transparent as dating bigdata ever got) 27% of respondents felt that green bubbles were less desirable than mansplaining in terms of dealbreakers in a potential partner...

https://www.androidauthority.com/green-bubble-phenomenon-102... https://www.cnet.com/culture/iphone-or-android-your-phone-ch... https://nypost.com/2019/08/14/sorry-android-users-these-ipho...

pests• 2 years ago

It's sad but true. Green bubbles means you're poor or lower class.

The only valid complaint is messing up iMessage group chats which are much better than SMS group chats.

- Proud Android User

pb73• 2 years ago

Even Japan, with their love with iPhones, uses a homegrown service for their messaging needs.

Meanwhile Europe uses another US tech giant's service. The simple answer is that most of Europe is not wealthy enough to afford iPhones and not adept enough at developing competing services without first kneecapping competition with regulation.

nixass• 2 years ago

So if people had more money (which in western Europe they already do) they'd be buying more iPhones? Get out of here..

Vt71fcAqt7• 2 years ago

LINE isn't actually owned by Japanese anyway.

jbm• 2 years ago

LINE is as homegrown as Tiktok with a front-end built by an American dev. It was initially owned by a Korean company (Naver), and a lot of the wikipedia article reads like a hagiography.

Calling LINE a win over iMessage is a huge stretch. The privacy policies on LINE were not good at all when I last looked at it several years ago; transferring your account from one phone to another was (is?) really annoying, and getting a username isn't necessarily that easy.

Say what you want, but Apple didn't punish me as much for having moved from Japan to Canada.

jamesrr393• 2 years ago

No real surprise about iMessage and Bing. They are not dominant communication methods/search engines at all, at least within my social circles (in Sweden).

Some useful info about who the gatekeepers are/which parts of their platforms have been designated at gatekeeping: https://digital-markets-act.ec.europa.eu/gatekeepers_en . Includes a nice diagram!

cgearhart2• 2 years ago

The diagram was helpful. Have you seen anything similar that summarizes what it means for services to be designated this way?

As an aside, it strikes me as vaguely protectionist to see that it’s only 6 companies and none of them are European… (maybe that’s a hot take?)

yorwba• 2 years ago

It's the opposite of protectionism. European competitors for these services existed at some point, but because they lacked the advantage of a sufficiently large home market and didn't get any extra protection to make up for it, they didn't do as well.

Depending on the strength of network effects, they either quickly lost users to the biggest platform, saw the writing on the wall and took an acquisition offer instead, or continue to hold their ground within a particular niche where expanding quickly is difficult (for both foreign and local companies).

Any new European internet companies wishing to make it big at home will probably need to concentrate mainly on the US market first in order to have those same network effects work in their favor instead of against them.

jamesrr393• 2 years ago

Not a diagram, but here is the summary of obligations: https://digital-markets-act.ec.europa.eu/about-dma_en#what-d...

Examples of the “do’s”: gatekeepers will for example have to:
- allow third parties to inter-operate with the gatekeeper’s own services in certain specific situations;
- allow their business users to access the data that they generate in their use of the gatekeeper’s platform;
- provide companies advertising on their platform with the tools and information necessary for advertisers and publishers to carry out their own independent verification of their advertisements hosted by the gatekeeper;
- allow their business users to promote their offer and conclude contracts with their customers outside the gatekeeper’s platform.
Example of the “don'ts”: gatekeepers will for example no longer:
- treat services and products offered by the gatekeeper itself more favourably in ranking than similar services or products offered by third parties on the gatekeeper's platform;
- prevent consumers from linking up to businesses outside their platforms;
- prevent users from un-installing any pre-installed software or app if they wish so;
- track end users outside of the gatekeepers' core platform service for the purpose of targeted advertising, without effective consent having been granted.

---

As an aside, it strikes me as vaguely protectionist to see that it’s only 6 companies and none of them are European… (maybe that’s a hot take?)

Simply put, there are no European companies on this level. If you want a phone, you are going to have to choose Android or iOS. To chat with people on your new phone, you will use what your friends & family are on - most often WhatsApp. When you want to search something on the internet, for most people it's going to be the default search engine, so Google Search. And when you want to go on a Social Network, it's going to be... etc, etc. The EU is of course part of the western world and so has not had the same requirements to develop their own companies, or lock American companies out, like China/Russia.

Perhaps the closest that could come to mind could be some messaging apps, e.g. Threema, or perhaps Mastodon as a social network (sure, it's federated, but anyway...). But these don't qualify as they are nowhere near big enough.

Finally, I'm quite optimistic about the DMA; not just for consumers in the EU but also in the US and worldwide. I feel there has been significant consolidation of market power and stagnation/coming stagnation, and competition is often considered the way to break out of this. Perhaps we will see a new generation of companies and ideas and more options for both consumers and small/medium businesses in the future.

junaru• 2 years ago

EU probe found that iMessage falls outside the legislation because it is not widely used by businesses.

Proving once more EU loyalties lie not with the people.

bilbo0s• 2 years ago

To be fair to the EU, it's not widely used by people in the EU either.

Part of the issue is that here in the US we think Apple is bigger than it is. Maybe it's an important messaging network here in the US, but everywhere else, it's just a phone. A nice one. But still just a phone.

crazygringo4• 2 years ago

To be fair, it's not "just a phone". iPhone integrates with the whole Apple ecosystem, so I can copy text on my phone and paste it on my Mac without thinking about it, or AirDrop a large file, or use it as a remote control for my Apple TV, and so forth.

It's just as much part of the Apple ecosystem everywhere in the world, even if you don't use iMessage. You're not getting anything like that if you're using Android and a PC. Which may be fine depending on your needs. But iMessage isn't the only differentiator here.

FirmwareBurner12• 2 years ago

Not really. If I'm a business and need to contact my customers and can just call them or text them on SMS or third party messenger platforms. Apple does not gatekeep me from reaching out to them. But if I'm a business and want to sell my customers an app, then Apple is the gatekeeper for the iOS platform, as I can't distribute my app to my customers with Apple devices any other way.

Similar with people. In EU nobody I know defaults to iMessages so it's not a big issue here.

lxgr10• 2 years ago

If the European Commission were to regulate something that almost nobody in the EU actually uses, Apple probably would have an easy time convincing courts that the EC overstepped their mandate.

bni4• 2 years ago

Chat protocols being standardized would be way more useful for me as a user than having "alternate app stores".

Many app stores is actually a negative for me, going by my experience from Windows gaming.

kj994• 2 years ago

This - they should just mandate RCS, or maybe actually invest in developing a modern European standard and then mandate that. It’s not like they don’t have research universities with CS departments who could be part of a standards body.

I don’t mean they should limit alternatives - just that they should require a modern, E2EE standard on all phones, and then we can all just shut up about this.

troupo8• 2 years ago

they should just mandate RCS

RCS doesn't have e2ee in the standard.

wkat42422• 2 years ago

Or matrix. It's really great and it can interface with most other networks already.

bni4• 2 years ago

No please don't mandate a specific protocol (that probably suck!) instead require the successful/important protocol tho become interoperable.

dbbk• 2 years ago

It won't be mandated but iOS is getting RCS so we can all move on

kube-system3• 2 years ago

We already had messaging standards, but people migrated to other options because they liked the features/price/etc of other options.

https://xkcd.com/927/

offices• 2 years ago

going by my experience from Windows gaming.

Could you elaborate? Steam is a negative and Microsoft Store is a positive experience?

pbmonster4• 2 years ago

They probably mean it's annoying to be forced to get the EPIC store or battle.net just for the 1-2 interesting games that are not on Steam.

amelius• 2 years ago

Funny thing is that in the telecommunications act it was actually enforced that telecom operators had to interoperate. What's old is new again.

pbmonster4• 2 years ago

way more useful for me as a user than having "alternate app stores"

It's not only alternative app stores. It's browsers with ad-blockers, youtube clients that auto-skip sponsor messages in the middle of videos and apps for $0, that cost money on the main app store - although their code is open source.

freedomben2• 2 years ago

apps for $0, that cost money on the main app store - although their code is open source

Interesting, I'm generally very opposed to Apple's way, but this sounds like a real unexpected benefit (silver lining on the cloud maybe?). It enables what I've long asked for from devs, mainly that they make the source available to paying customers.

dktp• 2 years ago

The fact that the software I have on my Mac is not tied to what I can download from Apple Store is basically the sole reason it's useful to me

lxgr10• 2 years ago

Fortunately the EU is mandating both!

Many app stores is actually a negative for me

Just don't use them, then! They're not mandatory for consumers.

bni4• 2 years ago

Until the app I really want require me to install their own crapware store/launcher.

Or even worse, that utility apps that are needed in daily life require their own "store"

makeitdouble3• 2 years ago

Windows gaming

Are you saying it's worse than Mac gaming ? Or lower quality than mobile gaming ?

I'm perplexed.

bni4• 2 years ago

Windows gaming is great. Remembering what store you bought a specific game on, and then have to install their crapware launcher to run it, that sucks.

jerojero3• 2 years ago

The usage of iMessage in Europe is vastly inferior to the usage of it in America.

I think that was a reasonable argument from Apple and the European Commission agreed.

But the thing is, apple obviously wants for people to use iPhones in Europe and to use their services just like in America. But they are now very much aware that this sort of market dominance won't come for free like it does in the USA.

marcellus23• 2 years ago

I'm curious, in what sense did it come "for free" in the USA?

zamadatix• 2 years ago

In that the EU does not sit idle once you become a significantly popular player in a given market, not in the sense that they were given free userbase. E.g. in this case if iPhones became more popular then they'd have to open up iMessage where as in the US having market dominance comes with significantly fewer strings attached.

ghusto3• 2 years ago

In the U.S.A., people use iMessage by default, because they use text messaging. People don't use texts in Europe (we use WhatsApp and similar, but WhatsApp by a long margin).

The reason people still use texts in the U.S.A. is up for debate, and it's something I've thought about for a long time.

jerojero3• 2 years ago

In certain demographics in the USA (teenagers, young adults) the usage of iMessage is around 90%.

It's a defacto monopoly but nothing is done about it from an anti-monopoly perspective. Such as forcing Apple to adopt open standards and interoperability. This market dominance does have a very real impact in which products people will and can realistically consume.

I think maybe coming from a geeky background we might be quick to think such things are irrelevant but I don't think they are.

artimaeis• 2 years ago

Even in the US it's very rarely used by business, which is what the article cited as the main reason.

the EU probe found that iMessage falls outside the legislation because it is not widely used by businesses

Apple does offer a specific service for businesses, Apple Messages for Business, but their documentation claims it's actually different from iMessage:

https://register.apple.com/resources/messages/messaging-docu...

Apple Messages for Business differs from the widely known iMessage by being a business to end-user service. Additionally, the encryption mechanism slightly differs from a traditional iMessage.

Given that businesses can interface with AMfB using APIs rather than the Messages app on an Apple device, it seems that would fall pretty far outside the iMessage gatekeeping definition.

currymj• 2 years ago

it's too bad, i was hoping the USA could free ride off European regulation. i would like to see an iMessage app for Android.

for me, it's the opposite of the teenager status issues.

rather, a lot of older people seem not capable of understanding the difference between iMessage amd SMS - not colorblind, but they seem to not perceive green vs blue bubbles even after it is pointed out. and this has caused me big practical problems communicating with family due to failed message delivery (both SMS and iMessage).

zer0zzz• 2 years ago

Even with eu regulations I can’t see a path to iMessage for android.

jerojero3• 2 years ago

Pretty sure Apple is not bringing side loading for apps in America, so I guess these changes won't necessarily trickle down.

I think the USB C change was done world wide simply because it's much more difficult to restrict hardware than software. A lot of software is geo locked.

retskrad• 2 years ago

I believe the assertion suggesting that iMessage plays a pivotal role in the success of the iPhone and contributes significantly to Apple's business is inaccurate. The iMessage platform, in itself, does not possess an inherent quality that renders the iPhone more appealing to consumers. On the contrary, it is the iPhone's inherent appeal that enhances the attractiveness of iMessage. The prestige of the iPhone imparts a certain allure to iMessage, establishing a relationship where the iPhone acts as the catalyst for iMessage's appeal, rather than the reverse. This is why the the iPhone is still a status symbol among the middle class and richest people in the EU, Asia and India - even though they couldn't care less about iMessage over there.

troupo8• 2 years ago

This is why the the iPhone is still a status symbol among the middle class and richest people in the EU

wat?

iPhone costs as much as an equivalent Android (and has for some time), and since you can get it with your phone subscription for a rather low monthly payment, it hasn't been a status symbol for a decade or more.

FirmwareBurner12• 2 years ago

iPhone costs as much as an equivalent Android

Only flagships, But decent Androids can be had for much less than an iPhone. Like the Samsung A54 for example. Apple doesn't have ~300 Euro phones with OLED screens in its offer.

lxgr10• 2 years ago

since you can get it with your phone subscription for a rather low monthly payment

This is not (anymore) how people buy their phones in many countries. Even on relatively expensive post-paid plans in some European countries, you don't get a discounted phone anymore: All they offer is an interest-free installment plan.

iPhone costs as much as an equivalent Android

What's an equivalent iPhone to e.g. a Galaxy A54 (~1 year old, EUR ~300-350)?

The iPhone SE (2022) is twice as old and starts at EUR 500.

tremarley2• 2 years ago

‘iMessage plays a pivotal role in the success of the iPhone and contributes significantly to Apple's business is inaccurate.’

If you ask many iPhone users why they use an iPhone rather than an Android. They would tell you iMessage first.

Many iPhone users won’t even consider an Android, only because of iMessage and no other reason.

SSLy• 2 years ago

Re-read parent's last sentence.

wkat42422• 2 years ago

Not in Europe. Almost nobody uses iMessage here. It's because the marketshare of Apple is much lower in most EU countries.

I'm glad because I use android also.

threeseed2• 2 years ago

If you ask many iPhone users why they use an iPhone rather than an Android. They would tell you iMessage first.

Likewise if you ask many iPhone users they won't tell you iMessage first.

That's the magic and wonder of meaningless anecdotes.

HDThoreaun2• 2 years ago

iMessage popularity has little to do with status and everything to do with iPhone users refusing to use other messaging apps. If you want to text an iPhone and you don’t have iMessage chances are you will be forced to use sms which is utterly trash. I’ve been unable to convince my friends to use a messaging app so if I want to text them I pretty much need an iPhone.

troupo8• 2 years ago

Strange then that iMessage didn't even qualify for DMA in EU by the number of users? ;)

lxgr10• 2 years ago

The fact that it's impossible to convince any of your friends to use something that works with all phones and not just iPhones arguably does have something to do with status.

In Europe, where less than half of all people (across social strata) use iPhones/iOS, this simply doesn't fly, so there is no "green bubble problem".

breather2• 2 years ago

I'd say imessage (and facetime) is about half of why I use an iphone in the end. It's just very good at communicating with my social network, which predominately uses iphones.

ghaff5• 2 years ago

As someone in the US, it's totally irrelevant. I never use Facetime and Imessage vs. SMS is a just don't care. If I occasionally communicate internationally, it's via Whatsapp or Facebook Messenger.

jandrewrogers3• 2 years ago

I also use WhatsApp and Signal as a daily driver. iMessage is legitimately superior to all other messaging platforms I've used, and it isn't close.

iMessage isn't just a text messaging app, it also serves as a shared application fabric. The many iOS objects and apps are integrated into iMessage as first-class things that can be securely shared and seamlessly collaborated on between groups of people over the iMessage backbone. It isn't just group chats but also group content. If you have non-iMessage users in the group then all of this is disabled and it reverts to being a text message app. I know many average people that live in those collaboration features without even really thinking about it because they work so much more seamlessly than the alternatives.

elevatedastalt• 2 years ago

In short, all the things Google or Microsoft are criticized for are Okay when Apple does it.

alberto1806• 2 years ago

It isn't a status symbol in western Europe. Really Every moron can get one with their 30-50€/Mo contracts, and you see many poor people running around with it

evulhotdog• 2 years ago

The same goes for in the US, but it certainly is portrayed different there.

Apple's iMessage avoids EU's Digital Markets Act regulation

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