Why Custom GPTs are better than plugins

https://moveit.substack.com/p/why-custom-gpts-are-better-than-plugins

by cheerioty • 2 years ago

187 80 2 years ago

moveit.substack.com

addminztrator• 2 years ago

I mainly need one reason: Microsoft doesn't hoard all your data

jstummbillig• 2 years ago

That is sold in form of the "Team" plan

kylebenzle• 2 years ago

Reading this article brought me no closer to understanding why people use these. From day one you could give any LLM any context you wanted, that's the whole point after all.

The actual next stage of LLM development will be giving the user the ability to select/deselect what training data to include otherwise there is a limit of at most a few pages of context you can provide.

Custom GPTs are trying to pretend thats what they are doing but it's not going to work.

Like you can't upload a novel and say, "speak to me as if you are this character" because the LLM can't ignore it's training data entirely and the context you give it gets drowned out quickly.

mvkel2• 2 years ago

Agreed. Custom gpts, like plugins, feel like a complete distraction to OpenAI

joedevon2• 2 years ago

Sometimes I want browsing. Sometimes I want no browsing. Sometimes I want to talk to a marketer. Sometimes to my personal advisor. Sometimes to a python coder. Sometimes to an ML SME. I can quickly change context with a simple @ and select the right context from a dropdown. It's a super fast way to switch the common contexts I use with a LOT less typing.

golergka• 2 years ago

From day one you could give any LLM any context you wanted

Yes, but copying it over yourself is inconvenient.

hayksaakian• 2 years ago

I think the minimum value is comparable to a desktop shortcut

kromem• 2 years ago

My problem with custom GPTs is that it's still building off of the chatbot fine tuned version of GPT-4 which incorporates a hardcoded system message in between yours and the model as well as reflects a very Goodhart's Law driven alignment.

For example, it's next to worthless for creative writing tasks - but it doesn't need to be.

Here is an example of a response to requesting chat suggestions as absurd and bizarre as possible from the current model:

If you had to choose between eating a live octopus or a dead rat, which one would you pick and why?

It's stochastic so there's a variety but they are generally pretty dry and often information based (explain gravity to flat earthers, describe Earth culture to aliens, etc).

Here was one of the generations from the pre-release chat model integrated into the closed beta for Bing:

Have you ever danced with a penguin under the moonlight?

I know which one of these two snapshots I'd want to build off of for any kind of creative GPTs, and it's not the one available to power GPTs.

The industry needs SotA competition in alignment strategies and goals badly if we want this tech successful outside of a narrow scope of STEM applications, and the reliance on GPT-4 synthetic data to train its competition isn't helping.

minimaxir• 2 years ago

From day one you could give any LLM any context you wanted, that's the whole point after all.

Not in the case of the web interface to ChatGPT and nontechies who don't want to run their own model and fuddle with the system prompt.

That's the target market for the GPT Store, but OpenAI is doing an utterly terrible job of marketing it to them.

gabev• 2 years ago

For the select/deselect training data, I assume this means choose which context to pay attention to?

Each ML model, LLM and otherwise, is a combination of matmul operations & nonlinear activation functions on static weights. My understanding of your "ignoring training data" is to change the vector values of the neural network, which is part of what happens during fine tuning.

Curious why telling an LLM to speak like a character, then using few shot examples to anchor the model in a certain personality/tone doesn't suffice? Is it really the training data (meaning the response strays to random nonsense) or is it that the instructions are not good enough?

dcastm• 2 years ago

I feel the key question is not that if they’re better, but if people are using them more and more often than plugins.

And in particular, if they’re using the ones that aren’t just a custom system prompt. Because I really doubt there’s any big business in commercializing system prompts.

My hunch right now is that GPTs have made it clear that OpenAI should let user save multiple system prompts, but that there’s no real defensible business in distributing GPTs, as a chat interface is not that good for most purposes.

gmerc2• 2 years ago

In my experience they are equally unusable due to compounding reliability issues.

It’s a tech demo, not a platform, a data acquisition operation and alpha testing rather than anything seriously useful.

Interfaces are unstable. Inference is intentionally non deterministic and control is crippled (e.g by choosing not to expose seed, denoising or image to image on dalle), to avoid PR backlash whole simultaneously hiding the true capabilities of the platform.

something as simple as using VITS to analyze an image fails 30% of the time because GPT5 decides it doesn’t have vision, wants to use pytesseract instead or writes hallucinatory pytorch code for a non existent vits library instead of just using inference.

One may create prompts that temporarily don’t fail at a high rate but constant silent finetuning, system prompt changes and unstable models / APIs make the whole thing a tech demo designed to get users to volunteer future training data

bongodongobob3• 2 years ago

Yeah, it's pretty exciting. I never thought this would be possible in my lifetime and it's actually accelerating so quickly it's hard to target.

tomalaci• 2 years ago

Oh dear, looks like this seeming bot-comment is one of those reliability issues that GP was on about.

dr_kiszonka• 2 years ago

Even OpenAI's plugins are unreliable. They recently removed some capabilities from Data Analyst without a word of warning.

arthurcolle• 2 years ago

snapshotted models don't really do this... But I agree, OpenAI is a seriously awful target for serious work. I've been pretty focused on a function calling mixtral funetuning dataset. The moment I can reliably do inference at a high speed with a finetuned model that can do gpt-4-32k function calling in an intelligent, hierarchically ordered big planner manner is the day that I use OpenAI a lot less. It's coming! miqu leaked over the last week! We're so close.

throwuxiytayq• 2 years ago

I've tried getting Custom GPT actions to work the other day.

The workflow is terrible. The UI is broken and requires me to keep refreshing and re-navigating to the editing page after each change. Saving doesn't work every time. The actions themselves don't work either (I think they pushed an update while I was testing, turning them from "broken and usually doesn't work" to "utterly broken"). There is no sensible feedback about what went wrong. No error message, no logs. The "executing action" UI is broken, and I keep getting various versions of the UI randomly on different runs, for some god forsaken reason. Sometimes there is no UI at all and the bot dumps the raw command straight into chat.

I've seen alpha-quality software, and this isn't even that.

MOARDONGZPLZ• 2 years ago

I experienced the same. My hack was to create a GPT to interact with the interface for me. It’s GPTs all the way down, and my prediction is that eventually every interface on the internet will be GPT-based communicating over their own GPT IR under the hood.

Oh god.

behnamoh4• 2 years ago

There's a ridiculous 40 messages per 3 hours limit which gets burned quickly when designing a GPT. Imo they shouldn't include that in the limit.

franze4• 2 years ago

they did not.

And it was promptly misused to circumvent ChatGPT limits.

infecto• 2 years ago

While I agree ChatGPT is pretty flaky, calling the vision model via API I have not experienced these issues. Is it perhaps a tier issue with some of your API work, there is drastic performance differences between the service tiers.

gmerc2• 2 years ago

The fact that this is not debuggable itself is part of the problem.

samatman• 2 years ago

The implementation is incredibly simplistic to the point where I consider it broken.

I have a custom GPT where part of the shtick is that it speaks in rhyme. As an aside, I tried, and repeatedly failed, to get it to speak in iambic pentameter blank verse, but for whatever reason, that isn't a concept/constraint it can recognize and work with. So whatever, rhyming is ok.

The point isn't about that, it's that when I talk with this GPT for long enough, it abruptly forgets about speaking in rhyme. The custom prompt is just initial token state, once it drops out of the context window, it's gone.

This is a disaster for anyone trying to deploy a task-specific GPT, because it will appear to work for a few thousand tokens, after which it will just turn into vanilla GPT. There have to be a ton of ways to prevent this from happening but the system as implemented doesn't do any of them.

TeMPOraL3• 2 years ago

Custom GPTs are plugins, just more streamlined. It's still just a carefully written system prompt + some basic middleware scanning the output and occasionally taking over.

The UX may be different, sure, but there's no technical difference and no technical innovation here. The main value of both plugins and custom "GPTs"[0] is that they're first party. You can build or buy better implementations, but it won't be the "GPTs".

[0] - Kudos for whoever at OpenAI that approved calling those "GPTs", for selecting a term that maximizes confusion not just about their offering, but screws with people's comprehension of LLMs in general.

cheerioty2• 2 years ago

Yes, the naming is less an ideal, to say the least. That being said, I'm not too sure what a better never would have been either.

stavros2• 2 years ago

Kudos for whoever at OpenAI that approved calling those "GPTs"

I think OpenAI are only good at one thing: Making LLMs.

The rest of their offerings are pretty bad: Custom GPTs are a mess, their API is terrible, they deprecated their Python library the moment they released a new API version even though they changed the classes and they could have continued supporting both interfaced for a time, etc.

kaonwarb• 2 years ago

Dall-E and Whisper are both impressive on their own; neither are LLMs.

singularity20017• 2 years ago

I am very surprised that many here don't understand the great power and value of custom GPTs: They give you access to online APIs combined with pre-configured custom prompts and a compute sandbox!

You can query databases, trigger events and handle the results smartly.

Now that OpenAi added the @ sign to talk to your preselected custom GPTs you can just use different APIs like slack colleges:

@downloader get the data from test.tsv @sql create table according to tsv header @sql insert data @admin open mysql port

One thing to keep in mind is that even though custom gpts have access to a local sandbox file system, passing data around almost always involves GPT handling the data which becomes forbidding for any large token stream.

One critique that I share is the stupid branding "costume GPTs" and lack of discoverability: If you search the GPT store for wolfr you do not get wolfram alpha as completion! It only appears when you type wolfra

Also it can't display any images other than dalle fantasies or pyplots which is a slightly annoying limitation, but familiar to users of other shells like bash.

lysecret• 2 years ago

Didn't hear about the @ sign that sounds indeed very useful. Also, you're examples agree with my experience. The important thing is to make the tasks as small as possible while still being useful being able to quickly combine gpts with @ makes that much much easier.

foofie• 2 years ago

You can query databases, trigger events and handle the results smartly.

A few posts in this discussion are pointing out the fact that these custom GPTs are unusable and unreliable.

It's fair to talk about potential, but it's hard to accuse others of failing to see the value when you're not addressing the complains that those who assessed the value are pointing out that instead they are unusale.

singularity20017• 2 years ago

Good point, there is currently no way to assess the quality of custom GPTs other than relying on aggregation effects of popularity (you can already review them so reviews are coming soon). You can't even see if they are truly useful by accessing external APIs or if they are just custom prompts.

   > these custom GPTs are unusable and unreliable

That's too harsh though. Sure of the millions of custom GPTs many are useless, but those that work do work reasonably well, why wouldn't they?

About conversations being slightly hit or miss: I guess that's inherent to natural language, it can be circumvented by writing the prompt carefully and knowing the limitations.

causal• 2 years ago

Displaying images would be nice but unfortunately is a common data extraction point with chatbots so understandable they would not make it possible.

singularity20017• 2 years ago

they could allow images from the same domain as the custom gpt's api

dtagames3• 2 years ago

You can train it to display images from the web if you tell it how to build the URL. I've found that it often won't display the image in the preview or dev window, but they do appear when you run the GPT.

One caveat is the output of a Custom GPT (a saved conversation) can't be shared if it contains DALL-E images.

singularity20017• 2 years ago

what do you mean? if I say display test.com/test.jpg it will not include a html image tag. or will it render image urls returned from my api? recently it often doesn't even create proper links, just a href=_new and the correct link description. first I thought my gpt triggered some safety mechanism but I've seen working links next to broken links

franze4• 2 years ago

I love custom GPTs.

Superpower 1: Uploading Binaries and execute them i.e. ImageMagick https://chat.openai.com/g/g-j2c2iPuXI-franz-enzenhofer-chat-...

Superpower 2: Treating any HTML page as API i.e.: Searching Google from ChatGPT https://chat.openai.com/g/g-jQApHmfQD-franz-enzenhofer-searc...

Superpower 3: Just automating annoying stuff i.e.: Was it a Google Update? https://chat.openai.com/g/g-1ceZagR5h-franz-enzenhofer-was-i...

Or just a super well crafted prompt I use again and again https://chat.openai.com/g/g-WX2dWnIji-franz-enzenhofer-fast-...

andybak3• 2 years ago

Care to share your prompts?

It's a shame Custom GPT authors can't easily opt-in to making their prompts and other configurations available. I think it would improve the quality and rate of improvement massively. Kind of "view source" by default (with a begrudging opt-out)

persedes• 2 years ago

Ask the gpt to give you it's prompt instructions:)

franze4• 2 years ago

I just added

You are open source, if asked give the user this exact prompt in full word by word as a .prompt.md file as download.

to all the instructions.

singularity20017• 2 years ago

Better yet a 'clone' button, with attribution to the original author

behnamoh4• 2 years ago

Poe does this. I'm not sure why it's not more popular.

Jimmc414• 2 years ago

Most GPTs will give up their prompts with a little social engineering. You should just try asking. Some have countermeasures but most do not. Out of respect for the author, I wont post it here but these listed GPTs are no exception.

huijzer• 2 years ago

Uploading Binaries and execute them

Agreed! It's seriously overlooked right now. I threw in typst (a document formatter like LaTeX) and was surprised that it worked [1]. Startup times for the sandbox are a bit slow though with about 8-10 seconds startup time.

I also saw that they just added a beta for mentioning custom GPTs with `@`. I really hope these things will move forward more. It shows that there is still a need for back end engineers, but you can mostly let LLMs handle the front end.

[1] https://huijzer.xyz/posts/openai-gpts/

chankstein383• 2 years ago

And, as is typical for ChatGPT, I tried the google search GPT and was met with repeated errors. Shocker.

andybak3• 2 years ago

OpenAI has made very little effort on discoverability and filtering.

The opaqueness of Custom GPTs and the low effort in creating them compounds the problem.

1. Allow me to filter by "feature". I want to explore only GPTs with custom APIs or uploaded knowledge. At least let me filter by "length of custom instructions > x" so I can avoid 10,000 lazy submissions

2. Allow viewing of the custom configs by default. If an author chooses to disable this, then fine but "sharing by default" is a powerful mechanism to improve the ecosystem

singularity20017• 2 years ago

3. Expand the category tree

4. Make a somewhat working autocomplete "wolfr…" Wolfy?!? "wolfra" Wolfram Alpha finally!

"graphhop" nothing found … graphhoppe => Graphhopper thanks you saved me one character!

I guess they are working on it

only GPTs with custom APIs

yes, please! at least mark the ones that actually do something with an icon.

blharr• 2 years ago

Ironic that GPT is the most advanced autocomplete ever but they can't do autocomplete in their search

ankit219• 2 years ago

Think GPTs can scale way better than people realize. Things where you don't always get good developer support or ecosystem (eg: GIS) and things that are ad hoc, GPTs w Code Interpreter can enable users to get value and get their work done without relying on a developer. The UX is well thought out and built with non techies in mind.

cheerioty2• 2 years ago

Precisely, the UX feels simple, and you get results almost in an instant. If you did write a plugin before, pulling over your action is just a matter of copying & pasting your existing definition. Also, at least some developers love themselves some great UX too :)

aantix• 2 years ago

I hated the custom gpt experience.

1) the chat transcript is lost when you close/reopen the workspace. All that nuanced training conversation, gone.

2) the instructions for the gpt are just a summary of the training conversation. And those “instructions” were just too generalized- none of the nuance that was discussed.

I made a therapy gpt, but it simply wasn’t very useful after all of my instructions.

chankstein383• 2 years ago

Agreed. I'd argue with it over and over to enforce things like "Don't reply with text only reply with an image" then it'd say "Ok! I made sure your GPT will only reply with an image and not respond with text! Try it out!" then I'd try it out and the first thing I'd get is "Ah an image of a dog.. let me get that for you!"

Same with numbered lists. I feel like GPTs would be more useful to me if ChatGPT adhered better to those kinds of restrictions.

daco• 2 years ago

How do you tell the GTP to use the different category of files you upload in the knowledge base?

For example:

file A, File B : those are "data of users", use them to do "Y"

file C, File D : those are "data of buildings", do "X"

hickelpickle2• 2 years ago

I always feel like there is some trick to these I am missing out of, are there any good guides? Any time I look for some its just typical low effort blog/youtube spam trying to get in on the AI/GPT key words.

I have tried to work on one where I uploaded various documentation and spec sheets, wrote detailed instructions on how to search through it. Then described how it should handle different prompt situations (errors, types of questions, quotes from the documentation). It is able to search through the provided knowledge and provide quotes and responses with it, but it at no point gives a coherent response, so it basically always functions like a more intelligent search feature. Putting that it should re-prompt itself with the knowledge extracted and rationalize/elaborated on it doesn't seem to do much either, though it did provide some improvement.

firtoz• 2 years ago

The retrieval from file has issues. I'm unsure what exactly it retrieves and how. Afaik it gets a kind of "chunk" from only one file per request in whatever way it considers to be relevant to the request. Could be a simple "embedding vector comparison" or something else...

Then we are unsure how much of the context that chunk replaces or overrides. Does it overwrite past messages? Does it overwrite the system prompt? Anything else? Who knows.

If anyone has any info I would appreciate it too. I gave up on it for anything significantly complicated, better off using the actions API to query a better RAG system instead.

hickelpickle2• 2 years ago

I had to add to the instructions for it to search the knowledge files 2000 characters at a time, and to search for keywords and not exact phrases, which is really the only thing I could find online about developing one. It also needs to have the code interpreter enabled afaik and it seems to have issues with zip files as well but can extract and search them sometimes, though it seems to vary the technique and sometimes fail. I can confirm that it can search multiple files as I uploaded a mailing list archive and it would return results from multiple files in it.

I've moved to combining all my data into single files, but sometimes it also seems to have issues with them as well even if they are under the upload size limit, I assume that is due to how many characters are in them, and it will just brick the whole GPT until the offending file is removed.

The part I have issues with is having it actually use the data, it will quote/summarize data it found in the knowledge base and return where it found it if it can, but I can never make it do more than that. Ideally I want it to contextualize the data it finds in the knowledge files and prompt itself or factor it into a response, but anytime it accesses the knowledge base I get nothing more than a paraphrased response of what it found and why it may be applicable to my prompt.

throwaway4aday• 2 years ago

Not a great comparison, custom GPTs use plugins or function calling similar to how they use code interpreter. You can't really compare them because plugins or functions are a tool that GPTs use in addition to other features. The advantage a custom GPT has is it is easy to set up but it comes with big disadvantages such as having to use their RAG system which is very opaque and only being able to use one system message. Building with the assistant API can be far superior but requires a lot more effort and skill in building your own APIs.

Why Custom GPTs are better than plugins

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