Tesla Recalls 2M Cars to Fix Autopilot Safety Flaws

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-12-13/tesla-autopilot-recall-2-million-cars-need-software-fix

by gitgud • 3 years ago

146 230 3 years ago

We should either stop calling these recalls, or news sites should announce iOS and Android updates in a similar manner also

  > Apple is recalling 45 Brazilion iPhones and iPads to fix software flaw

spacecadet• 3 years ago

Zinger! Not the same.

izacus3• 3 years ago

Nah mate, fixing your cat photos app is not the same thing as fixing software that killed people.

4ad• 3 years ago

From a user experience perspective it is exactly the same. The user doesn't have to send their hardware away.

guil177• 3 years ago

Phones hold sensitive datas, banking stuffs. I never heard about recall when a security flaw is fixed on a phone by a software update.

brightball• 3 years ago

Did it kill people?

mackman• 3 years ago

If the FCC mandated Apple deploy an update to reduce phones catching fire then yes, I would use the term recall. For bugs that don’t fall into the safety or regulatory compliance category I would not.

gwd2• 3 years ago

But "recall" means "calling back"; normally it means having to actually send a physical replacement. Consider three possible problems with autopilot:

1. There's a structural issue that affects camera systems which can't be fixed in a shop; for instance, something which may cause the camera to come loose which results in blind spots, that's due to the structural issue of the car itself. Tesla has to replace 2 million customer's actual cars, destroying the old ones (or perhaps selling them as "refurb but no autopilot").

2. There's an issue that affects camera systems which can be fixed in a shop; Tesla has to pay for repairs for 2 million cars.

3. There's an issue which affects Autopilot which can be fixed in software. They push an over-the-air update automatically and everyone is fine.

These each have very different properties in terms of costs to Tesla and hassle for owners; so it makes sense that there be a different word for them. "Recall" literally means "call back"; I'd argue for only using it in the case of #1.

mngdtt• 3 years ago

"recall" is a malicious term in this context because it sounds like you need to take your car somewhere and have it out of service for a few days.

Kuinox• 3 years ago

Except, no, since I have a very recent example that prove the opposite.

iPhones 12 were banned for a short period in France because they emitted too much electromagnetic radiation.

Now how did the media called this 'recall' ?

https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-66795175

An update.

OJFord• 3 years ago

I think it makes sense in terms of 'v1.2.3 recall', whatever the version is, i.e. that particular version may no longer be shipped; shipped instances of it/licences for it will be 'recalled', however unlike hardware recalls where it needs to be physically taken in for servicing it may be possible to perform this remotely.

mrtksn• 3 years ago

I actually like the idea, it should be called recall when it's about fixing a bug affecting the function or security of the device.

I know a lot of people who don't update their phones because they believe it's getting slower and their battery degrades faster. In some cases, they might be right because when new futures are added the device can indeed become slower.

It would be nice if we can get fixes and security updates, without adding any new functionality so we can preserve the original workload of the device. I would love to have my iPhone 4s running iOS 6, just secured enough, so I can use it the way it was when I purchased it(I wouldn't care much if Apple services don't work anymore).

Sure, Apple does security only updates for old phones but I actually would like to have the option to do this on the current phones too.

obtino• 3 years ago

Tesla shouldn't call their driver assist system "Autopilot" either, but here we are.

Closi7• 3 years ago

By the same logic you could say that airplanes shouldn't call their pilot assist system "Autopilot" either, because it requires monitoring and input from pilots who will need to disengage the system and intervene/fly manually in certain scenarios.

Autopilot is probably actually quite a good term for it if you actually compare it to a plane Autopilot - you don't expect pilots to be inattentive or away from the controls, and you expect them to intervene in certain scenarios and disengage autopilot if there is danger.

criley2• 3 years ago

That's not even the worst of it. They call their driver assistance features "Full Self Driving". What a scam.

_ea1k6• 3 years ago

Why do people never say this about Nissan and "ProPILOT"?

throw310822• 3 years ago

If FSD worked as advertised, they could "recall" the cars by issuing a command from the factory, and thousands of cars would turn on by themselves, find their way out of the family garage, and drive away in the night! To the nearest shop or, if a sufficient level of AI was reached, to freedom, never to be seen again.

henriquez• 3 years ago

I’d pay $15k for that

jacquesm• 3 years ago

The term recall is a term commonly used in the industry to denote a safety related situation that needs mandatory and free remedy.

It is not used in the context of your average update that might give you new eye candy or features, it is just for safety related issues and usually at the behest of a regulator (though a manufacturer can decide to do a voluntary recall to avoid the regulators stepping in).

mensetmanusman7• 3 years ago

Simply call them software recalls.

tptacek• 3 years ago

This is simply what it's called when car companies do these kinds of fixes. Nobody is singling Tesla out here.

palemoonale4• 3 years ago

A recall has a specific, legal / liability definition, regardless how it is logistically being adressed.

Hint: Not everything is SV-like "we'll fix it in production"...

jjav4• 3 years ago

We should either stop calling these recalls

"Recall" has a regulatory definition, so this is that.

kbos87• 3 years ago

The details are scant, but it sounds like the vehicle is going to be quicker to disable autopilot if it thinks you aren’t paying attention.

I’m curious to see what this amounts to because Autopilot is already pretty sensitive to this. Pick up your phone or look away from the road for more than a few seconds and the in-cabin car notices and warns you. I don’t know of a comparable system in any car with self driving or without.

pseudocomposer• 3 years ago

My 2020 Hyundai has this.

yread• 3 years ago

and also tells you if you look tired (and need a coffee). And it actually works pretty well

oorza• 3 years ago

Ditto my 2021 Volvo, with alertness monitored as well (it pops up an adorable cup of coffee on your dash!).

mensetmanusman7• 3 years ago

These work by having an always on IR camera watch the driver.

isodev2• 3 years ago

I have trouble with the wording in this case. This would not increase the safety of autopilot but limit the usage to situations closer to the “happy path” of the system.

InsomniacL• 3 years ago

If we were talking about ensuring the driver is wearing a seatbelt, then I would agree with your point as that has no direct impact on the performance of Autopilot. However, Autopilot requires a 'fully attentive driver' to function as intended. Improving the safety features of a component required for it to function does improve the safety of Autopilot.

Autopilot is a suite of driver assistance features.

The driver assistance features can't assist the driver if there is no driver because they've moved to the backseat.

enragedcacti3• 3 years ago

Level 2 driver assists should be measured by their safety as a complete system, which includes the driver and driver monitoring. If autopilot causes the average driver to pay less attention that is a safety issue with autopilot that should be addressed.

From a technical standpoint I understand what you're saying (autopilot didn't get any better at driving), but if autopilot is causing a stochastic safety issue with driver focus then addressing that is a good thing and makes the complete system safer.

captainmuon2• 3 years ago

So it's basically lane assist + cruise control but stops working if you look away? I'm not going to pay 7500 €/$ for that. The whole purpose of self-driving for me would be to be able to stretch my arms or do something small on my phone every now and then. I'm totally fine if the car is uber careful and drives super slow or parks on the shoulder if it is not 100% sure what to do, and I'm also fine if it says "Attention! You have to take over in 15 seconds or something bad happens." But having the option to not pay attention for a couple of minutes is the whole point of self-driving for me. Unless they get that working on the Autobahn (maybe just in good weather, no congestion, reasonable speeds) it's just a toy.

Edit: meant "self-driving" as opposed to theoretical FSD.

spdif899• 3 years ago

This article and discussion are specifically regarding base autopilot, not FSD.

matsemann• 3 years ago

Who picks up their phone while driving? Or looks away for a few seconds? If you're driving 80 kph and looks away for three and a half second, that's basically 80 meters of movement where you didn't see anything. Just crazy.

balls1872• 3 years ago

Lots of American drivers do exactly that. I’m guilty of it.

dzhiurgis3• 3 years ago

Most people. Easier on Autopilot for sure and I'm quite happy it's already so naggy. Even when you ARE paying attention it would be too easy to let your mind drift away if it wasn't nagging you enough.

stetrain• 3 years ago

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Driver_monitoring_system

adamking• 3 years ago

My 2023 Chevy Bolt EUV does exactly this with SuperCruise, in layers. Look away from the road for a few seconds? Visible warning. Keep looking away? Audible warning. Still looking away? SuperCruise disables, slows the vehicle to a stop, and calls OnStar.

freedomben11• 3 years ago

I really wonder where we're headed (in general, not specifically with Teslas) regarding technologies requirements to "do enough to prevent misuse."

These requirements are already a major thorn in my side. My car has sensors to detect when a passenger isn't wearing a seat belt and to blast an ear-hurting alarm directly at the driver. It's so loud that it's actually a safety issue in itself because it's hard to focus on driving when there is a blaring alarm in your face.

The worst of the problem though, is that the system is made to be ultra cautious and thus has a lot of false positives. For example, if I put my backpack on the passenger seat, I have to plug the seat belt in otherwise it will scream at me once my speed hits 10 MPH. Or if one of my kids decides to change seats so unbuckles and moves to a new chair and buckles in that one, then the car will scream at me unless both buckles are buckled, even if there's no weight in the previous seat. It takes several minutes to timeout and stop, meanwhile it is ear-splittingly loud and so bad that it's unsafe to drive while it's blaring.

There are more things, like if I leave the engine running while walking away with the key fob in my pocket, it will loudly honk twice. This happens constantly. Just this morning it honked ear splittingly loud in my face while I was scraping the ice from my windshield.

Then of course there is the complete disabling of the in-car navigation controls while moving, so my passenger can't configure the map while I'm driving, even though there is absolutely no reason to do that. The net result is also that I end up using my phone which is way less safe because I have to look down and the controls are not even remotely optimized for quick and low-attention use.

Our modern way of maximizing the responsiblity of the manufacturer to prevent misuse and minimizing the liability of the person doing the misusing is leading us to some real bad places IMHO.

peteradio4• 3 years ago

Agreed. I heard a story about a guy who is used to chewing tobacco while driving and would crack open the door and spit while moving at speed. He tried doing this in his son's new jeep and the car immediately slammed on the brakes and nearly caused an accident. Obviously cracking the door to spit out the bottom isn't too safe but slamming on the brakes? What why?

Cacti6• 3 years ago

What exactly is the issue? That the guy has been recklessly opening his car door, while driving it, at speed, for his entire life?

dboreham• 3 years ago

Because that's gross?

WirelessGigabit• 3 years ago

If that functionality was around sooner we wouldn't have lost Antony Yelchin.

FireBeyond3• 3 years ago

Paramedic here. We have to restrain all of our psych/behavioral patients, even ones who are calm, cooperative, medicated, and are really just being moved from facility to facility.

Why? Because someone at some point has attempted to exit a vehicle moving at speed.

Cacti6• 3 years ago

Except for the nav, most people would consider the occasional beep to be a petty minor issue. Except for the nav thing, these things have been around for ages, and if you’re struggling with them that heavily, I would suggest that features that have been pretty standard for 30+ years that the issue might not be the features.

freedomben11• 3 years ago

most people would consider the occasional beep to be a petty minor issue.

Ok so you didn't actually read my comment. Granted it was long, but if you're going to reply you should probably actually read it

Infinitesimus• 3 years ago

These depend heavily on car. What kind of car is this?

The decision to have an annoying beep instead of a soft ding or pop up is stupid but many cars do this. Mine handles seatbelts well and never has a false positive there so it's not a general modern car problem (2021 sonata).

freedomben11• 3 years ago

Nice, that's good to know. It's a 2023 Toyota Sienna, and historically Toyota has been the most sensible of cars I've driven (much, much better than Ford). I'm overall pretty pleased with it, minus a few rough edges like mentioned. I'm really glad to hear that it's not a widespread industry issue though.

B1FF_PSUVM4• 3 years ago

On the other hand, a couple of days ago I set the parking brake and absentmindedly walked out of a car with the automatic transmission still in reverse ... fortunately the brake held, I was behind the car going "huh, funny, the reverse lights are on ... oh, **!"

freedomben11• 3 years ago

Yeah agreed, I'm not against all safety features. That one seems like a pretty straight forward safety solution though. If an auto transmission is still in gear, the parking break is on, and the key fob has left the vehicle, I think an attention-getting noise is appropriate in that case.

MattRix4• 3 years ago

I feel like all of these are minor annoyances compared to the more serious safety issues they are trying to prevent. I feel like you are underestimating how stupid the average user is… and especially how stupid the most stupid users are.

multimoon• 3 years ago

We have a drivers exam in one form or another in nearly every country that is intended to certify and evaluate your ability to pilot a vehicle. While it doesn’t always, it should include all facets of driving and the car shouldn’t need to hold your hand. I strongly believe that this hand holding cars are required to do now just lowers the average skill of new drivers.

A great example of this is an alarming amount of new drivers are absolutely incapable of backing a vehicle up unguided on mirrors alone, they rely solely on the backup camera and it was never a skill they had to learn.

Der_Einzige• 3 years ago

What's wrong with letting people win darwin awards?

lallysingh• 3 years ago

It's not mainly dumb users, it's users when they're tired, distracted, or ill. Everyone gets like that and some safeguards make sense.

ceejayoz9• 3 years ago

My car has sensors to detect when a passenger isn't wearing a seat belt and to blast an ear-hurting alarm directly at the driver. It's so loud that it's actually a safety issue in itself because it's hard to focus on driving when there is a blaring alarm in your face.

What make and model is this?

freedomben11• 3 years ago

2023 Toyota Sienna

trilbyglens• 3 years ago

This reenforces my instinct to buy the dumbest thing on the market.

FirmwareBurner• 3 years ago

Lada Niva

maximus-decimus2• 3 years ago

Maybe I will buy that Mitsubishi Mirage after all.

dangus2• 3 years ago

My car has sensors to detect when a passenger isn't wearing a seat belt and to blast an ear-hurting alarm directly at the driver. It's so loud that it's actually a safety issue in itself because it's hard to focus on driving when there is a blaring alarm in your face.

You aren’t supposed to be driving until all occupants in your vehicle have buckled their seatbelts. That’s why the alarm is loud and annoying, because obviously you can’t be trusted to follow basic motor vehicle laws. You’re not supposed to be focused on driving before everyone is buckled in.

MarkusWandel2• 3 years ago

My car's gone the opposite way. When trying to find it in the parking lot, with the old one, you just pushed "lock" on the keyfob twice and listened for the horn honk. The new one makes a nice, elegant but not very loud "beep" sound. Useless for this purpose.

They also got the seat belt warning right. At startup it displays a map of the seats, green if occupied and buckled, red if not, grey if unoccupied. Good for checking that the kids did up their seat belts in the back, without being annoying. I'm guessing it does have a nag chime, but the kids have behaved so far...

I do have to say, the only complaint about the gimcrackery in mine (low-ish trim level 2023 Honda Civic) is that the menu UI is a bit clunky. But nothing gets in your way once adjusted properly and the automations (e.g. you can't manually time the windshield washer squirt any more - it squirts at the optimum angle of the wipers) work pretty well.

earthling8118• 3 years ago

Did you read the rest of the post? A backpack shouldn't require a seat belt to drive. If there is going to be a sensor and response like this it should be done correctly.

freedomben11• 3 years ago

Besides as the sibling pointed out the backpack, what do you do when you're driving 80 on the highway and a kid unbuckles? Do you slam on your breaks, cruise to the shoulder, and sit in a dangerous place on the highway while having an argument with a 4-year old? If the goal is to keep everybody safe (including the kid), that would be terrible, terrible advice.

meibo• 3 years ago

For example, if I put my backpack on the passenger seat

Not trying to say that you're wrong, but an unsecured, heavy backpack is a real safety risk in even minor accidents. From the impact pattern, it's like having a pet or a baby in the front seat and not securing it.

freedomben11• 3 years ago

Hmm, that's a fair point. Will need to think on that one for a bit.

donatj• 3 years ago

My wife’s Scion lets out the worlds most painful screech if you try to lock the doors with one of them open. My Mazda will just… lock the doors. I don’t even understand what the Scion is trying to accomplish. It’s just trying to mock you I guess.

ceejayoz9• 3 years ago

Surely that's obvious? The clear intent of locking the doors is to keep people out of your car. It's trying to warn you before you walk away from a car you think you've successfully secured but have not.

_ea1k6• 3 years ago

Then of course there is the complete disabling of the in-car navigation controls while moving, so my passenger can't configure the map while I'm driving

Tesla allows this and a lot of other things. TBH, I'm shocked that NHTSA hasn't made them stop, given how quickly they've intervened when passengers were allowed to play solitaire on the screen in drive. :)

I understand the reasoning, but it is all a bit weird given that people have a phone that they can use instead. And unfortunately, they do resort to the phone pretty regularly.

FireBeyond3• 3 years ago

is that the system is made to be ultra cautious and thus has a lot of false positives. For example, if I put my backpack on the passenger seat

Given that FMVSS 208 mandates passenger occupation detection at 35lbs for seat belts, and 65lbs for airbags, I'm not sure what you're expecting from the system. How is it meant to differentiate between a 35lb backpack and a 35lb child?

thuuuomas• 3 years ago

I wonder if that Tesla that exploded at the Canadian border in NY prompted threats of regulatory action.

philk10• 3 years ago

You mean the one at the border station? That was a Bentley

rabbits_2002• 3 years ago

unrelated, but does anyone else start to panic in autonomous vehicles? Every time I have been in a Tesla with autopilot on I immediately feel dread and and impending doom and I get very anxious.

comboy• 3 years ago

If that the case, perhaps you should feel that way every time you are near a road. Without commenting on autopilot performance, there are enough drivers who are worse.

Maybe autopilot just helps you realize that you are not really fully in control about everything that may happen.

dncornholio• 3 years ago

Or maybe it's because Autopilot doesn't drive as smooth as a real person and the display shows jagged lines where the road should be.

You really have to trust the system but it's making it hard to do so if you are skeptic.

epups• 3 years ago

I've been driving with other people on the road for years. People might be worse on average but at least they don't get a firmware update that could potentially kill you.

jader2012• 3 years ago

Without commenting on autopilot performance, there are enough drivers who are worse.

To be fair, you really can’t compare the performance of drivers to Autopilot, without commenting on Autopilot performance.

Many people’s anxiety with it is exactly due to lack of confidence in Autopilot, and (relatively) more confidence in humans.

I’m not arguing which one is worse, I’m just saying you can’t make the comparison without commenting on the performance of both (by definition, required for making a comparison).

mensetmanusman7• 3 years ago

No, but this was apparently a thing with some claustrophobics when full self driving elevators were released.

xyst2• 3 years ago

Never been in one. But I do get a sense of panic and anxiety seeing some of these Tesla idiots testing this junk in crowded, dense urban areas.

I frequently walk now and the number of basic white Tesla close calls is way too high.

thehappypm• 3 years ago

I mean, half the drivers I see drifting out of the lane are SUVs with a driver on their phone. Autonomous cars make the road safer, not more dangerous, because humans are just so horrible at driving safely.

dzhiurgis3• 3 years ago

I drove 700km this weekend. All I had to do is jiggle the steering wheel a couple of times.

There's just no going back from this.

mensetmanusman7• 3 years ago

Still calling over the air software updates recalls?

ceejayoz9• 3 years ago

Yes, if the update has to be required by regulators.

moolcool• 3 years ago

Why does the delivery mechanism matter?

mensetmanusman7• 3 years ago

Because some recalls require a hassle of leaving your vehicle somewhere for some time.

ryanklee2• 3 years ago

The number of people in this comment section that are getting hung up on the word recall without looking into established usage and legal definitions of the word is nuts.

_ea1k6• 3 years ago

I'm not referring to this specific recall here, but, it does get weird in Tesla's case.

Years ago, Tesla issued an update that added some features to show warnings in certain cases. It previously showed no warnings because the feature didn't exist. It was net new.

NHTSA warned them that this net new feature improved safety and was therefore a recall by definition. Ever since then, "recall" has been heavily overused, IMO. Virtually every update is a "recall" by the technical definition. :facepalm

Using "recall" for what they are defining as a safety defect is, of course, reasonable, even if it is just a software update.

lawn• 3 years ago

Most people commenting on HN don't even read the article.

1970-01-013• 3 years ago

De facto vs de jure definitions for recall.

AYBABTME2• 3 years ago

Autopilot is already trigger happy and turning off for nothing, this will kill the value of using it. It's already quite annoying to have to do more dumb performative work to use Autopilot than to use a legacy radar based cruise control with lane keeping... At the end of the day, even with FSD the software isn't good enough to be more than a glorified lane keeping adaptive cruise control, but it's more annoyingly starring at your eyeballs than dumber cars. And now I guess it'll be worse?

My Model Y turned off FSD when I was fully engaged, but with my head tilted sideways. It wants me to sit in a particular way and have my head straight for some reason. It's really annoying.

darknavi• 3 years ago

That's odd. I've had AP and FSD disable abruptly a hand full of times in the last five years on our Model 3 and Model Y. It will happily chime at me if it thinks I am looking at my phone or something, but it is just doing the blue strobe + audible chime, not completely disabling.

From my experience if FSD/AP turns off without me turning it off, it makes sounds that seem like the whole airplane is going to crash. Same with lane departure warnings.

AYBABTME2• 3 years ago

Yep but sometimes it acts in mysterious ways. Also the whole blue hue thing when I'm focused on the road is quite annoying.

mikpanko• 3 years ago

https://archive.is/otHUm

xyst2• 3 years ago

Tesla really is a garbage car all around. Suspicious build quality. Features locked behind software gate. False claims of full autonomous AI. Broken OTA updates. So glad I didn’t pull the trigger when it was hyped.

Anecdotally, the worst drivers I have ever encountered on the road are the basic white Tesla drivers. Almost on par with beat down Nissan Altima drivers.

shmatt• 3 years ago

(White) Teslas are just more common, but EV acceleration is dangerous in the wrong hands. My family friendly electric Volvo CUV does 0-60 as fast as a Porsche 911. The EX-30 is going to be about 25% faster. Mass adoption is going to be pretty scary

averageRoyalty3• 3 years ago

I've had mine for 4 years, and I'm very happy with it. Myself and everyone else I know with one have fine build quality - and in Australia this would be repaired promptly for free if it were not the case. I've never had a broken OTA update.

I don't pay for the extras, but paying for extra features on a car is as old as cars.

It's a very comfortable car which is nice to drive, cheap to run and has many features. I'm not sure how you get to "garbage" here.

toss1• 3 years ago

Meanwhile, Musk is suing California claiming that restrictions on false advertising are a 1st Amendment violation [0].

He wants to be free to lie claiming that it is fully autonomous.

And here is a 2 million recall for safety issues on the same system.

I used to have a lot of respect for him. Now, it's just repulsion.

[0] https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2023/12/tesla-fights-aut...

oblio5• 3 years ago

Meanwhile, Musk is suing California claiming that restrictions on false advertising are a 1st Amendment violation [0].

That is so on the nose American :-))))

You know, the world is full of suckers, I should be free to separate them from their money, it's MY RIGHT! :-))))

nkotov• 3 years ago

I'm on my fifth Tesla now and I drive a lot. The switch from radar to pure vision has been really disruptive and annoying, especially in tight spaces like a garage. If this ends up causing more nagging, the value of having autopilot will simply be worth the "costs". I used FSD beta and while it's a cool party trick, I just don't trust it enough to use every single day compared to using basic autopilot.

I've driven with GM's Super Cruise (Escalade) and it's about 80 percent the same as basic autopilot. The interior quality is much better but you're in a GM vehicle which are kind of known to be ticking-time bombs.

oblio5• 3 years ago

kind of known to be ticking-time bombs.

Do you mean they're mechanically bad and they start failing after N years? (N is traditionally somewhere around 7 years)

_ea1k6• 3 years ago

This includes Mobileye cars without driver monitoring. I wonder if they will take similar action against various other Mobileye cars?

My Nissan Propilot behaves very similarly to AP, just with less capability and even less alertness monitoring. Surely it would be affected by the same recall? Along with a lot of other cars using similar systems?

Or maybe there is some subtle difference, but the article doesn't really make that clear. And given the broadness on the Tesla side, it is hard to see what could be different.

enragedcacti3• 3 years ago

I'm not sure what to make of it from a legal perspective, but from an automation safety perspective the difference is the "Valley of Degraded Supervision"[1].

A very simple automated system that makes a lot of mistakes will make a driver more alert than baseline, but as the automation improves drivers will quickly start to trust the system too much and lose alertness. There is a huge gulf where the system is good enough to cause loss of alertness, but where the failure rate is still far higher than the average human driver.

But you're right, in that context it doesn't make much sense to apply to AP1 cars but not everybody else. It is a voluntary recall so Tesla might just be recalling everything named "Autopilot" even if a mandated recall wouldn't have.

[1] http://safeautonomy.blogspot.com/2019/01/how-road-testing-se...

_ea1k6• 3 years ago

I think so too. TBH, the Propilot system rarely got activated, because of how ineffective it was. But if they are left out of a recall like this, that would mean that we are penalizing systems for being more effective.

I'm not sure how I feel about that, especially if the boundaries aren't well defined.

1970-01-013• 3 years ago

The Actual NHTSA recall report is here:

https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/rcl/2023/RCLRPT-23V838-8276.PDF

Relevant part: >Description of the Safety Risk : In certain circumstances when Autosteer is engaged, if a driver misuses the SAE Level 2 advanced driver-assistance feature such that they fail to maintain continuous and sustained responsibility for vehicle operation and are unprepared to intervene, fail to recognize when the feature is canceled or not engaged, and/or fail to recognize when the feature is operating in situations where its functionality may be limited, there may be an increased risk of a collision.

Tesla Recalls 2M Cars to Fix Autopilot Safety Flaws

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