Windows 11 is last in gaming performance tests against 3 Linux gaming distros

https://www.notebookcheck.net/Windows-11-scores-dead-last-in-gaming-performance-tests-against-3-Linux-gaming-distros.778624.0.html

by marcodiego • 3 years ago

128 121 3 years ago

notebookcheck.net

Affric3• 3 years ago

The summary includes no details of the testing methodology, just results.

No hardware. No justification of the games.

I love gaming on Arch. But I am stupid enough to use an nvidia card, which means that I have no Wayland. I am eating shit due to the drivers every few months. There are a whole host of good games with awful DRM that I can’t play. Steam is good but it’s still DRM.

The summary provided article gives the vibe that it wants to pump up Linux’s tyres rather than either demonstrating Linux’s superiority or making the case that you should be gaming on Linux.

shmerl9• 3 years ago

You should be gaming on Linux, but you should be using AMD for it too :)

GOG games are playable fine, you don't need Steam to play them.

cassianoleal3• 3 years ago

Steam is good but it’s still DRM.

Yes, most games on Steam have DRM. Steam is not synonimous with DRM though.

https://www.howtogeek.com/813209/psa-not-all-steam-games-hav...

m4632• 3 years ago

Many of those games are on GOG as well, which is drm-free.

https://www.gog.com

"DRM-free makes it easy to re-download games, back them up on external hard drives, and enjoy their single-player mode offline."

I am very happy with gog. though not all games are on there, if they are, it is a no-brainer to get them there.

nneonneo• 3 years ago

The article links to https://www.computerbase.de/2023-12/welche-linux-distributio... which does provide the testing methodology.

Highlights (from auto-translated German):

Windows 11: All updates were installed and version 23.11.1 was used for the graphics driver. The global AMD graphics profile was set to standard. This means that Radeon Super Resolution, Anti-Lag and Boost were disabled in the test for better comparison with Linux.
The gaming PC used for the test was a system with AMD Ryzen 7 5800X on an Asus ROG Strix B550-A Gaming (Bios: 3202). The RAM was 32 GB DDR4-3600-RAM (CL18-22-22-44). The CPU was kept at temperature by a Scythe Mugen 5 while the system was in an open structure. The graphics card is a Sapphire RX 6700 XT Nitro+ with active Quiet BIOS. The monitor supported Full HD at 144 Hz. FreeSync was not active.
A handful of current or currently very popular (Cyberpunk 2077) Windows games were used for the test. This shows the importance of current program packages for performance. The performance under Linux can also be compared with Windows in current titles.
Since all games are versions designed for Windows, they ran using the Proton translation layer under Linux – specifically Proton Experimental as of 15 November 2023. Tested was carried out in Full HD.
Finally, the question arises as to whether these results can also be transferred to a Linux system with GeForce? Yes, all titles were able to run; the editorial team had already tested that. However, the performance remained out of consideration for the time being. In the near future, ComputerBase will also address this topic.

lostmsu2• 3 years ago

Last time Linux + Wine benchmarking was discussed the major caveat was that some features in Wine implemented with empty stubs (e.g. the game may think soft shadows are computed but stub just always returns solid color). So take this methodology with a heavy grain of salt.

gpm2• 3 years ago

I'm on Nvidia (2070 super), Arch, X11... It's been literally years since I've had to worry about drivers. Install the proprietary drivers (follow the arch wiki) and they "just work" in my experience. I'm not trying to say you couldn't have had issues, but I am saying I'd caution people from seeing that and assuming that they will have issues if they try this.

pyr0hu• 3 years ago

Yeah same, wanted to write a similar comment. I have played Diablo 4 , Cities, a ton of emulators with the proprietary nvidia driver and never had an issue. Update works 95% of the time, sometimes I have to do a manual 'mkinitcpio' but otherwise it's all working

lll-o-lll• 3 years ago

OK, but he specifically mentioned “it means I have no Wayland”. So does Wayland work?

Affric3• 3 years ago

I am not saying I am having heaps of issues.

But for some reason the new open nvidia driver didn’t like my set up yesterday. mkinitcpio log shows it used the hook properly and then I did it manually. Proprietary one works fine and I am chill with that.

But to reiterate, it’s just the the summary doesn’t go into enough detail. It’s just pumping up the tyres.

My comment is not a criticism or evaluation of gaming on Arch or Linux or nvidia. It’s about the article.

eqvinox4• 3 years ago

But I am stupid enough to use an nvidia card, which means that I have no Wayland. I am eating shit due to the drivers every few months.

Funny you would say this; I'm on AMD (Ryzen 6950HS IGD) and I'm eating shit due to the (FOSS) drivers every few days… to be fair I have two choices of distinct shit with X11 and Wayland, but neither is actually stable.

And none of this affects gaming, just the desktop in general :/. The RX 6950 in the desktop is in fact working without issues (same driver stack). I suspect it's some memory management problem with the CPU/GPU sharing on the 6950HS. But I have no idea how to track it down…

That said, FOSS GPU support has come a long way.

mjevans• 3 years ago

Laptop APU https://www.amd.com/en/products/apu/amd-ryzen-9-pro-6950hs

You don't describe the problems with anywhere near enough detail to guess at what the underlying issue might be.

https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/AMDGPU << Has a troubleshooting section that might help.

justinclift3• 3 years ago

As a data point, you can run a fair number of Windows games under Proton by using Lutris instead of Steam:

* https://lutris.net

* https://github.com/lutris/lutris

It's an OSS game launcher that takes the place of Steam, and you can set things up to run locally so you don't even need an account on their system (lutris.net).

0xDEADFED5• 3 years ago

there's also Goldberg Steam emulator that's effectively a 1 line config for many Steam games, but if the exe uses DRM you still have to unwrap it or crack it:

https://mr_goldberg.gitlab.io/goldberg_emulator/

pixxel• 3 years ago

Lutris is wonderful. I also recommend Bottles.

https://usebottles.com/

tarruda• 3 years ago

An alternative (which I use) is GPU passthrough, which works on laptops that have a physical HDMI output to the Nvidia card.

I'm only a causal gamer, but never had any compatibility by simple running all games in a windows VM. This setup also serves as a way to sandbox all the windows spyware

shmerl9• 3 years ago

Even if it's not, performance gap is not significant to use Windows. Gaming on Linux never has been better.

jeppester• 3 years ago

Exactly. Gaming performance is not a good reason to switch to Linux. But there are many other good reasons (for instance no ads and telemetry, and no continuous nagging to use Edge).

Being able to get a respectable gaming experience will for many be the reason that they can stay in the OS that they prefer for other reasons.

pjmlp10• 3 years ago

Playing games developed and sold for Windows on Linux never has been better.

While playing games developed and sold for Android/NDK or developed and sold for GNU/Linux isn't really a thing.

lividly35292• 3 years ago

A solid 20% of games in my steam library have Linux versions and many (tens of them!) were built for Linux first. Its way more common for indie/smaller dev strategy games though. Also have you seen the android gaming market cap? Depending who you trust most numbers I've seen have double the number of players on Android and iOS then Windows, Mac, and Linux combined and 3-5x the revenue.

shmerl9• 3 years ago

Good to see MS gaming lock-in crumbling despite all the efforts of lock-in proponents for the opposite.

gnabgib• 3 years ago

Previously: "Three gaming-focused Linux operating systems beat Windows 11 in gaming benchmark" (120 points, 95 comments, 3 days ago)[0]

[0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38510805

footlose_38152• 3 years ago

I use POP OS lately, and as much as I want it to succeed, it is unstable when running games. Civ6, random crashes. TF2? Random crashes.

I really dislike Microsoft, but I'm mid-30s, and my whole life, the gaming support for Linux has been tangential at best. I want to convert to Linux fully, but I can't commit yet. It's still too unstable. I have a feeling I will die unhappy and unsatisfied with Microsoft's marketing's answer to graphics called DirectX.

robertVance• 3 years ago

For civ 6 if you haven’t already try the proton version I’ve found it much more stable than native Linux.

protonboy3• 3 years ago

I basically never run the native Linux versions anymore, Proton is always more stable and more performant.

I think that's actually Valve recommendations to developers as well: don't bother with the fast-moving and always breaking APIs and ABIs of native Linux support, just make sure your game works well with Proton.

mkozlows2• 3 years ago

This is probably related to your hardware. I've been using Steam to play games -- Civ6, BG3, Pillars of Eternity -- and everything has worked fine across multiple computers and the Steam Deck. A big caveat here is that I've been using AMD everything, due to their Linux support being better, and also doing everything through Steam, because Valve makes stuff work well.

I think that pre-Proton, Linux gaming was somewhat marginal -- some things worked, but a lot of AAA stuff didn't -- but these days, it's much, much better.

footlose_38152• 3 years ago

8th gen intel i7, RTX3070. It's aging a little, but it's about as standard as standard can get.

I have dual monitors which might contribute to the complexity, but it's still a low bar to expect dual monitors to work on a gaming OS.

fnordpiglet• 3 years ago

Have to say it’s in no small thanks to Valve this is happening.

adamrezich• 3 years ago

I was initially skeptical of the effectiveness of their hedge against Windows but in the end, over time, it ended up being quite fruitful

hx82• 3 years ago

I am personally reaping the benefits of their labor. I do wonder how much business impact it has. The steam deck has sold about 1/10 of the units as the PS5. On Steam all Linux is 1.5% of users.

I think the biggest business impact might be behind-the-scenes negotiations with Microsoft.

Of course, this is a seed that might bare more profitable fruit in the future.

pjmlp10• 3 years ago

They still depend on Windows developers.

They would have an edge if they would actually be pushing for native GNU/Linux games, as it is, it is just like OS/2 runs Windows better than Windows, kind of thing.

Just wait until the other SteamDeck competitors get more market share, all of them running Windows.

qudat2• 3 years ago

I find the most brutal part about gaming on linux is not the performance once I'm in the game, but getting into the actual game. Launchers via Lutris (e.g. battle.net) take forever to bootup, which was not the case on windows.

Overall experience feels a little janky, but once you get into the game, it seems fine.

jaimex2• 3 years ago

Heroic Launcher is a lot more polished

shmerl9• 3 years ago

You can just make your own scripts. No bloat, instant launching.

qudat2• 3 years ago

Are there guides anywhere for that? I literally boot Lutris just for battle.net

mkozlows2• 3 years ago

If you just use Steam like a normal person, the same way you would on Windows, everything is fine.

numpad0• 3 years ago

Launching those games launches the launcher. Which then either chain-launch the game, wait for launch button to be clicked, or require a Steam linked login, or combinations thereof. Often the game is the only game the launcher can launch.

There must be business reasons it makes sense but experience wise it's a pointless friction.

iforgotpassword4• 3 years ago

No, startup times are still significantly higher which I don't really understand, there's no compilation or binary translation going on but still.

And recently, again, any game that bundles the EA app was a pain in the butt to get running, you had to switch back to very old proton versions and disable dxvk and other shenanigans for the EA installer to work. Once it installed properly you could switch everything back to default, but startup time is still abysmal.

S04dKHzrKT• 3 years ago

Some game communities have created their own launchers specifically to get around the jank. e.g. https://github.com/rfvgyhn/min-ed-launcher

rstat1• 3 years ago

I use that just to get around Frontier's godawful launcher, even on Windows.

It was bad before they updated it, now its so much worse somehow.

INTPenis• 3 years ago

I've used Linux since the 90s and I'm a huge advocate for it, but I just can't take these tests seriously.

Phoronix has also posted a lot of these tests where Linux seemingly performs better than Windows.

I don't have the technical wherewithal to challenge their methodology but it just doesn't seem right that you would add overhead and still outperform Windows on a system barely used by 1% of gamers. It seems like Linux fanatics fantasizing.

I love what Valve have done, thanks to them I am never bored on Linux and never wish I had a windows PC anymore. But something is rotten in the state of denmark.

raws• 3 years ago

Denmark?

robin_reala• 3 years ago

It’s a Hamlet reference.

jraph2• 3 years ago

What added overhead?

There's no emulation, just alternative implementation (kernel, drivers, userspace, including Windows APIs with Wine). I don't play and I haven't looked at the results but it does not surprise me that an alternative implementation can perform better.

iforgotpassword4• 3 years ago

Dxvk/vkd3d, although as seen with arc newer cards might actually implement older dx Standards in such a crappy way that software translation to Vulkan is still faster.

dartharva3• 3 years ago

Don't those alternative implementation add a few extra layers of abstraction that must affect performance?

protonboy3• 3 years ago

It's a common misconception that Proton adds any overhead. It's just an alternative implementation. In some aspects it will be faster (and in some other probably slower) because the Linux kernel does things differently from the NT kernel.

I have not run any benchmark but I exclusive use Linux as my gaming platform. I don't play any multiplayer though and I think that's one aspect where Linux is behind. But for single-player stuff it's perfectly fine.

One thing though is that I have to filter out which games I buy by checking on ProtonDB their level of compatibility. But I can play major AAA games just fine.

ParetoOptimal• 3 years ago

Cyberpunk gets an extra 20 frames on Linux for me versus windows with an nvidia card.

mvdtnz• 3 years ago

Wake me up when my sim racing peripherals work in Linux.

maxhille• 3 years ago

I do flight simming in Ubuntu and have zero Problems with my peripherals. I also have some USB devices which work out of the box whereas in Windows I have to install some crappy driver first.

Not saying your stuff is well supported but if it isn't, a bit of work/code from your side could share benefits with all others.

29athrowaway4• 3 years ago

They do work but often Steam Input messes them up.

dartharva3• 3 years ago

It might just be personal experience but I've found things always look crappier on Linux than on Windows. I have been off-and-on Windows and several Linux distros on my laptop, and I have found GUIs and multimedia graphics on Windows are always a tad bit more vibrant, clearer and better-looking in general than on Linux. There is just something inexplicably wrong with how Linux setups render things, even in the OS's own GUI (for both KDE and GTK-based DEs) - fractional scaling (if it exists) just makes everything blurrier and worse-looking, fonts look wacky with uneven kerning and ineffective anti-aliasing, colors are dull, etc.

Not to mention GPUs just go ballistic and drown out the game's sound with fan noise every time even when you're running a simple 2D game. You always have to keep the iGPU on and the discrete card off by default because it apparently has just two modes - off, or full-power. Smart throttling like on Windows is non-existent.

I don't mind the extra effort needed to set things up and gather knowledge on running it for the trade-off of a truly free system. But these things are out of any user's control and keep me from completely shifting over.

29athrowaway4• 3 years ago

What ICC color profile do you use? do you use a driver setting like NVIDIA digital vibrance? what DPIs are you using?

Are you using font antialiasing? if so, what font hinting setting are you using? are you using subpixel ordering?

What CPU frequency scaling governor setting are you using? What power setting did you set for your GPU? NVIDIA has Powermizer settings which have adaptive clocking for the GPU and there's a GUI control panel for it that comes with the driver.

Most of what you've mentioned here sounds like you misconfigured your system (e.g.: wacky fonts). Default settings often do not produce the problems you've mentioned.

If you have a HiDPI setup like a 4K screen, simply set your resolution to 4k (3840 x 2160), scaling to 2x, 96 DPI and get a proper font of your liking. You can even get the fonts used on Windows if you install the TrueType font file (I think "Segoe UI Variable Regular" is the font name you would be looking for), with anti-aliasing y hinting set to Slight.

dartharva3• 3 years ago

I didn't configure (or misconfigure) any of what you've listed; I don't even know how to do that yet. All was default settings, both on Linux and on Windows.

The only configuration I did was install Nvidia's correct proprietary drivers and turn on fractional scaling and font antialiasing (with correct subpixel ordering) on Linux. On Windows, even that was on by default.

interstice• 3 years ago

I spent a long time trying to fix sub pixel font rendering in Windows 10, it always seemed to be either pixelated, chromatic, or blurry.

Im on a Mac now but did this eventually get fixed?

justsomehnguy• 3 years ago

I had this issue. It went away when I replaced monitor with a BGR panel.

samyar• 3 years ago

I think this is bullshit.

wef223dfggg• 3 years ago

Hey Linux gurus, I think we don't have enough linux distros. 700 of them is just too low and WE NEED MORE!

gumballindie2• 3 years ago

Yup, let’s talk to the Linux CEO and complain about it.

0dayz• 3 years ago

No, no, we need to buy stocks in Linux Corp. So we become the major shareholders and now the cep had to listen, it's the Law!

hyperman1• 3 years ago

I agree, in fact. An ecosystem this varied is the best protection against the current monoculture. It requires software writers to write against a standard instead of 1 specific implementation that might not be viable next year.

All sign point to windows 11 going insane. Still, you can't leave them. They're a prime example of too big to fail. I'd love to see 700 win32 API implementations.

thealistra• 3 years ago

Wouldn’t a metric called frametimings be lower is better?

ortichic• 3 years ago

Yes, if you look at the source, these are actually FPS. The frame times look much less one sided, although overall, Arch manages to beat windows.

999900000999• 3 years ago

In my experience Linux gaming is amazing until it's not. And no one can tell you what's not going to work before hand.

bastard_op• 3 years ago

I love gaming on Arch. But I am stupid enough to use an nvidia card, which means that I have no Wayland. I am eating shit due to the drivers every few months. There are a whole host of good games with awful DRM that I can’t play. Steam is good but it’s still DRM.

Not sure what you're doing wrong, but using arch with latest kernel, nvidia drivers, and I play Steam game daily on it with xorg or wayland to mostly stop using my PS4/5 again. I tend to flip back and forth between xorg and wayland, and xorg I still get odd kde compositing bugs, and wayland the compositor has a persistent memory leak that'll use all 128gb of my ram within a few days. I get lots more fps with wayland (particularly yuzu for switch emulation), but I have to restart kde every few days, which is a KDE problem, not Steam.

Otherwise gaming has been great since Proton picked up, but if you do still have problems, use install Proton GE from AUR. If anything doesn't work with default, it does almost certainly with GE.

If games use invasive DRM, or like Epic/Ubisoft/EA with their garbage launchers, F-em - they don't get my money anyways. Plenty out there that don't to have to deal with crappy mega company BS.

rldjbpin• 3 years ago

for me, it was anyways the case because of windows 11 limitations (inability to undervolt on laptops) and the hardware issues of my laptop (heavy thermal throttling)

it was much easier in the past (when hyper-v is disabled) with windows compared to using specific tools in linux. however, now it is a matter of whether it is possible at all or not.

on the flip side, the metrics don't matter if the game doesn't run to begin with. many of the online multiplayers are plagued with AC not working on linux (at least the last time i checked).

Windows 11 is last in gaming performance tests against 3 Linux gaming distros

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