Do you make over 20k a month?

https://old.reddit.com/r/Entrepreneur/comments/173b8jh/do_you_make_over_20k_a_month/

by carouselhero • 3 years ago

79 73 3 years ago

old.reddit.com

martin_a• 3 years ago

As with all these threads, don't forget that survivorship bias exists.

For everybody in that thread, 100 times the number of people exist that haven't done so well or good at all. Don't feel bad if you're not as successful. There's more to life than making 20k+ a month.

checkyoursudo• 3 years ago

I have made around 25k/month (gross) and 0/month (or even negative, if you count having to use savings to live). The reality for me has been that the amount of stress that comes with making 25k is not entirely dissimilar to the amount of stress that comes from making 0, albeit from different causes. I am much happier where I currently am, somewhere in the middle. I make about average for where I live, and that is perfectly fine with me.

methuselah_in• 3 years ago

these days people are more happy in getting less at and spend more time at home doing nothing of doing nothing or going out.

Zaofy• 3 years ago

Pretty much this. Whilst I've never earned more than 20k a month I've a couple of friends who do. And they're fairly miserable despite the money. Same with my friends who earn far less than me or even nothing. It's just a different kind of miserable.

I much prefer what I do now. A job that is sometimes stressful, that I even outright hate on rare occasions, but that is on average fulfilling and fun and lets me go to bed with a clear conscience. All while I still have enough free time and left over money to actually spend the money I earn on things I enjoy.

Now if someone gave me a choice between earning 20k a month or earning nothing a month, I'd still chose the former. I'd rather struggle with the mental issues and stress that come along with it than living in constant fear how I'd pay for my next meal...

But Ideally I'll have built up enough savings to retire early at some point and live off of the interest generated. Best of both worlds.

siva7• 3 years ago

Where the heck do you live that 13k/month is an average salary for an it expert?

noobermin• 3 years ago

I don't feel bad because of some silly concept like "self-worth." More money means I wouldn't have to feel squeezed when the pharmacy sends me the bill at the end of the month. Money means freedom, and only after some point does it become a penis measuring contest.

rjh29• 3 years ago

Obligatory comment that countries exist where the "pharmacy bill" is either $0 or sufficiently low that it will never cause stress.

For people living in those countries, health costs are no longer an incentive to earn a lot. In the UK in fact, the pharmacy is free for people on low incomes but roughly £120/year for everyone else. The same applies to the dentist.

gumballindie4• 3 years ago

Why is there always someone commenting about survivor’s bias? Should people not even aim for it because many will not make it? Is that the purpose? I find these types of comments super annoying. The crab in a bucket mindset seems strong. Either way 20k a month is peanuts, and definitely doable. We need more stories about how rather than stories of why you cant.

iteria• 3 years ago

People mention survivorship bias because 20K/mo isn't doable in some situations. 20k/ is 240K/yr. That isn't peanuts in the vast majority of the US. I'm a programmer and I make multiples of whole families in my area and I can't see making 240K/yr without extreme amounts of stress and deciding to dedicate my life to work (which I won't do), for my tradesmen family members, I have no idea how they'd do it without running a business with several employees which everyone can't do. If you live outside of the super high cost of living places in the US, anyone you see making 240K definitely had some luck involved. It's right to call that out so that when people fail they know that it wasn't that they sucked, but that the stars didn't align for them in this situation. The odds are probably better than playing the lotto, but depending on your life situation, the chances might not be much better.

laserlight• 3 years ago

Why is there always someone commenting about survivor’s bias?

To educate and remind people of survivorship bias, so as to prevent this:

https://xkcd.com/1827/

hcks• 3 years ago

These mandatory lectures on survivorship biais are annoying, especially when we’re not talking about Elon Musk levels of insane success.

20k a month is… what make an average senior SWE in the USA?

It’s ridiculous to think you’d have only 1% chance of making it to that level of revenue.

heartbreak2• 3 years ago

Before I read the linked thread I thought this whole post was about salaries. I don’t know about average SWE in the USA, but it’s certainly common in some markets.

You can be rank-and-file in software, law, and medicine and exceed $20k/mo after taxes.

Makes the risk in entrepreneurship not worth it for me.

red-iron-pine2• 3 years ago

the average salary in the US is like 58k. 200k USD makes you the global 1%, even if you're not the US 1%.

plus if I believe levels.fyi, 200k+ is F500 programmers, and mostly those at FAANGs or other high-end orgs. Plenty of folks ain't.

But yeah, 20k/mo. is mid-level legit-org SWE pay.

Zetobal• 3 years ago

I would totally attend every meeting if I was salaried and at 20k.

HPsquared2• 3 years ago

The counterargument is that a super-important 20k-a-month person may not want to waste their important time on unnecessary meetings. More is lost by wasting that person's time.

bilekas• 3 years ago

From experience, some of those 20k+ a month are usually the culprits for scheduling an outrageous number of meetings. God forbid someone is working on something without "following up" or heaven forbit they couldn't get to establish what to do "moving forward".

JimDabell• 3 years ago

It’s a question about business revenue, not your individual salary.

iamflimflam1• 3 years ago

I've worked on contracts where that is not an unusual amount, my colleagues and I behaved no differently from working on normal pay.

pettycashstash2• 3 years ago

The bottom line is that while attending every meeting may sound ideal, it's often not feasible or even necessary for employees at certain experience and salary levels. There can be good reasons for missing meetings that have nothing to do with motivation.

willis936• 3 years ago

Like attending one of the other meetings that are triple booked in that time slot. I definitely don't make 20k/month.

mnky9800n• 3 years ago

it seems like these split into at least two groups. The ones that have a sustainable business (e.g., trailer repair), and the ones that this month are making >20k a month but next month who knows (indie board game start up). it leads me to believe that the question itself is not as informative as it may seem upon first inspection.

HPsquared2• 3 years ago

I guess you could ask something like "How much would a bank be willing to lend you?"

pzo• 3 years ago

This is also not a good question. I had a friend who is freelancer making very good money but was hard for him to even get credit card comparing to someone who has medium salary but has permanent job.

Another friend had hard time getting mortgage credit even though has enough money already in the bank to buy apartment in cash - reason? He earns in dollars but in his country bank requires earning in local currency to get credit.

arethuza• 3 years ago

"How much would a bank be willing to lend you?"

Depending on how the economy is doing and how crazy your bank is that could be a truly awful measure.

numbers_guy3• 3 years ago

Amazing how much value is skimmed off knowledge workers. It always puzzles me why more people don't setup their own shop.

upon_drumhead• 3 years ago

I have zero ability and interest in managing client out reach and lead generation. As an independent shop, I would make close to $0/mo.

I love my job as it allows me to solve puzzles and get paid for them. It’s worth letting someone else take a cut to bring me the puzzles so I can focus on puzzle solving.

gumballindie4• 3 years ago

You are getting an awful amount of downvotes for a would be hackers and painters forum. Your statement is true, but crabs would rather you get back in the bucket.

numbers_guy3• 3 years ago

Yes, I'm wondering. I thought HN was a startup forum.

refurb2• 3 years ago

The only way that statement is true is if you believe the entire success of the tech industry is the code.

Nothing else.

Not the other parts of a functioning business - marketing, client relations, public relation, finance, business strategy, etc.

That’s a pretty absurd assumption.

And think of it this way. Google revenue is $1.5M per employee. Profit is 24%.

That’s $360k of profit per employee (yeah I know costs include employee wages, but bear with me).

Seems like ultra-elite-10x coders who make $400k+ are skimming a pretty respectable chunk of the returns, no?

nextlevelwizard3• 3 years ago

Because the hardest part is finding clients.

I could say good buy to my (comparatively) low guaranteed salary to "setup my own shop", but my current employer wouldn't take me as consultant since we have a rule about size of companies we deal with. So I would have to start looking for new client(s) from scratch without any guarantee I will find even one.

benjaminwootton• 3 years ago

I think this is it. Surely almost everyone aspires to do it at some point, but finding and winning the right type of customers is very difficult.

Justsignedup• 3 years ago

And to note, by the time you're well versed enough to set up shot you likely have life obligations that prevent you from living for no income for a few months to kick the tires.

And also there's a big difference between doing and making money. Not everyone knows how to sell themselves. I certainly don't.

pavlov• 3 years ago

Did we read the same Reddit thread? Most of the respondents making good money didn’t seem to be knowledge workers, but ordinary small business owners.

I don’t envy anyone running a small HVAC installation company or whatever. The work is boring, the paperwork mindnumbing, the hours often grueling. When one of your three employees gets sick or goes on a drinking binge, you’re the one who has to figure it out.

If I had to choose, I’d rather work as a librarian even for 0.1x the salary. But of course we’re very lucky that there are so many interesting and well-paid knowledge jobs today.

deconstruct5• 3 years ago

That's right. Large majority of people on here (and especially reddit CS/programming subreddits) are employees and simply comfy in their corporate job.

It's not even that most won't start their own shop (which is perfectly do-able), it's also that they will actively attack even the mere notion of it.

And its usually using "isms" like "its hard to get clients", "its risky", "multiple clients mean multiple bosses" and "90% of businesses fail in the first 5 years" and other nonsense.

Edit: then the economy takes a turn, mass tech layoffs happen and it makes some people think.

dpig_• 3 years ago

I make one zantillion dollars selling people an audiobook of engine sounds.

tomashubelbauer• 3 years ago

Are you this guy? https://www.youtube.com/@angethegreat

refurb2• 3 years ago

The question is $20k per month in revenue. Not profit.

You could be running a business that is $20k in revenue and $18k in costs, profit is $2k

sgt• 3 years ago

$15k of that could be salaries or your salary.

addandsubtract• 3 years ago

$2m profit on a $20k business? Nice.

petargyurov2• 3 years ago

Can't decide if this is inspiring or depressing.

Are software/tech consultants paid solely for their opinion or do they actually implement things, write code, etc?

I can't imagine getting paid as much as the commentors reported for simply giving advice...

Detrytus• 3 years ago

Writing the code becomes relatively straightforward once you have decided what code to write. Consultant's opinions helps you go into the right direction and not waste your time on writing the wrong code. Which makes the opinion the force multiplier for the whole team.

mouzogu• 3 years ago

it's reddit. at best they're embellishing the truth, at worst they're just fantasies.

if someone is paying 100k p/m for consulting, they're not just paying for consulting they're paying specifically for you. that's the hard bit.

deconstruct5• 3 years ago

Largely, "consultants" in the software/tech are implementing things.

Pure consultants, if they are specialized, can make more than that - and that's because of the value they bring.

petargyurov2• 3 years ago

Just seen your personal website. Out of curiosity, from which avenue (LinkedIn, your site, word of mouth, etc) do you receive the most contracts/engagement?

red-iron-pine2• 3 years ago

there are strategy consultants who give opinions. usually backed by numbers, aka death by powerpoint / excel.

often times they exist to "read your watch to tell you what time it is" and bill you 800/hr for the privilege. but they often act as a lever to move implacable executives, or to serve as a sanity check for C-levels / the board before launching big initiatives.

other consultants write code, and are essentially high-end contractors. part of the value proposition is that they're very qualified -- hence why they cost so much -- and that they have a large org to lean on. the large org means that if the individual contractor dies or quits there is another who can jump in, and they can rope in other resources as needed.

nl• 3 years ago

This is a strange thread. It's one thing making 20k/month as an individual, but many of these stories are consulting companies making some amount per month, but with lots of employees. Does that surprise anyone at all?

j2bax• 3 years ago

It’s in the Entrepreneur subreddit so I think the assumption is a lot of these people have employees. Not sure what’s magical about the number 20k though.

nikanj• 3 years ago

$20k/mo in salary is huge, $20k/mo in revenue is a very small business. This thread seems to happily mix the two

t483v3• 3 years ago

I worked at a bank. One of the programming consultants was getting 100k per month.

He had figured out how to get some FX trading advantages for the bank. IT staff were furious. I was impressed. If a trader or lawyer can make this why not a programmer?

jacquesm• 3 years ago

Furious that he got that much or furious that they got less?

Do you make over 20k a month?

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