Dropped iPad implicated in fatal Rotak Chinook helicopter crash

https://verticalmag.com/news/dropped-ipad-implicated-in-fatal-chinook-helicopter-crash/

by mik3y • 3 years ago

295 174 3 years ago

Was he possibly using it as a dashboard of sorts? Edit: I didn’t read the article fully and was guessing, I have been corrected by the comments

TMWNN• 3 years ago

The article itself discusses this:

Apple iPads and other so-called electronic flight bags (EFBs) have become common equipment in aircraft cockpits, used for flight planning, as a supplemental navigation aid, and to replace paper documents, among other purposes.

UnixSchizoid2• 3 years ago

ah, I didnt see that part. Thanks for that

vorpalhex• 3 years ago

What an unfortunate accident. I'm surprised anything loose in the cabin isn't tethered in whether it's a tablet or a clipboard.

dharmab3• 3 years ago

A common checklist item is to secure any "FOD" (Foreign Object Debris"). For example some pilots will strap their clipboard or iPad to their legs as a "kneeboard".

nvy2• 3 years ago

I used to be in military SAR and the powers that be required helo crews to keep their EFBs/iPads in a clip with suction mounts, similar to what you see in cars for phones.

Those regs are well established. Whether these guys were following them remains to be determined.

jmbwell• 3 years ago

Oof. Suction cups? I can already hear it coming loose and hitting the floorboards.

I’d be pushing for something more robust like a clamp-on/bolt-on RAM mount or something. We put RAM mounts on forklifts for iPads and barcode scanners, and they’re nigh indestructible.

jollofricepeas• 3 years ago

That’s sad. I can only imagine the amount of panic they must have went through.

I wonder what other fatal accidents have been caused by dropped electronics such as iPads and iPhones getting stuck under accelerators and brake pedals in cars and long haul trucks as an example.

There’s obviously distracted driving as well which is a major problem.

criddell• 3 years ago

I flew recently and part of the pre-flight announcement now is if you drop a phone or other electronic device between seats, do not try to retrieve it. Call a flight attendant and let them retrieve it.

Apparently, people have dropped their phone then while trying to retrieve it, moved the seat and bent the phone, puncturing the battery.

edgineer• 3 years ago

In this case it was not the attempt to retrieve the tablet that caused the accident, it was being unable to reach it to remove it from being jammed in the pedals.

Edd314159• 3 years ago

I did this a few years ago during taxi before take-off, in a business class seat on a flight to Tokyo (I’m not bragging, it’s literally the only time in my life I’ve ever not flown economy)

I had to move to another seat when I wanted to recline it for sleeping, because the crew (quite rightly) didn’t want my iPhone getting chewed up in the mechanism.

Despite me using my Apple Watch to make the “find me!” ping sound, nobody could find it during the flight, so they had to partly dismantle the seat when we landed. It was all very embarrassing, I had to stand there for 20 minutes watching ground crew take it apart.

I didn’t dare tell anyone that I didn’t turn it onto airplane mode before I dropped it.

HeyLaughingBoy3• 3 years ago

In most cases with highly trained professionals, panic is very unlikely. Too busy working the problem in front of them to panic.

fullstop5• 3 years ago

My neighbor, a photographer, was on a tour group which took three helicopters up and only two returned. [1] They had an aftermarket restraint system to tether the passengers in and they were required to cut the restraint to free themselves in case of emergency, or unbuckle the tether from behind them which was time consuming. One passenger's restraint accidentally engaged the emergency fuel shut off lever, and by the time the pilot figured out what had happened it was too late to correct things and he was forced to land in the river.

None of the passengers were able to cut the restraint to free themselves, and all five drowned.

It's not really the same as dropped electronics but it's an example of a safety system gone awry.

1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_New_York_City_helicopter_...

fouc• 3 years ago

ground crew were responsible for attaching and detaching a locking carabiner to the back of each passenger's supplemental harness at the start and end of each flight.

ugh, so short sighted!

msie• 3 years ago

Ugh, the location of the fuel shutoff lever. It should be within easy reach of the pilot but not the passenger!

partdavid3• 3 years ago

For me, the aspect of that accident that never gets enough attention is the partial failure of the floats.

I think everyone understands that asking people who have never drilled a helicopter water escape to take special actions in an emergency, let alone reach behind them and cut a tether, is just never going to work, certainly not in the few seconds they had. If the floats had functioned as designed, according to the investigation, everyone would have survived. Instead, either because the pilot did not fully activate them, or due to some malfunction, the right float did not inflate, causing the helicopter to capsize.

It's not completely clear to me, but I don't think they ever completely identified the malfunction that resulted in this, but as far as I'm concerned, it's a malfunction in a safety-critical system that caused deaths, and I'm surprised it's not the primary highlight of this accident.

dredmorbius3• 3 years ago

I want to emphasize the point here that the cause of the accident was itself a component of a safety system.

One point that repeatedly gets lost in considerations of risk and security is that more complex systems intended to compensate for other risks will themselves become part of the risk and/or threat profile.

I've both read of this many times in the case of incidents which occur elsewhere, and have seen it firsthand myself where some system or method itself intended to compensate for a risk turns out to be the cause of an incident.

Power backup systems, fire suppression systems, failover / load-balancer devices, and many cases of safety or audit code, just off the top of my head.

sirshmooey• 3 years ago

Tangentially related, there’s Eastern Air Lines Flight 401. The flight crew unwittingly crashed the plane while preoccupied with a burnt out landing gear confirmation light.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_Air_Lines_Flight_401

13of40• 3 years ago

Can't remember where I read it, but I heard a theory a long time back that people freaking out about spiders and insects in their cars could account for a significant number of unexplained car accidents. I wonder if we've ever had an aircraft accident because of that.

smilespray2• 3 years ago

Last month, I got a speeding ticket because I was distracted by a mosquito...

whinenot2• 3 years ago

I once had a wasp hiding near my center console start stinging my arm as soon as put my arm down as I started driving. Fortunately, I was still in my residential neighborhood so I was able to pull over and jump out of the car without causing an accident but it's easy to imagine the poorer consequences had I been a little further in my journey.

interestica2• 3 years ago

Ever have that feeling of extreme preparation in a car when you feel a sneeze coming on?

camtarn• 3 years ago

I had a wasp fly into my motorbike helmet one time. The visor was down but cracked open slightly to stop it fogging up, and it was just big enough for one unlucky bug. Luckily it didn't sting me and I was able to come to a controlled stop and take the helmet off, but if I'd been in mid-corner and it stung me, it would have been bad news.

RalfWausE• 3 years ago

Quiet plausible... a long time ago i took my motorcycle out for the first ride after a long pause, as soon as i left the town where i live in and a moment before i would yank the throttle open an ABSOLUTELY GIANT (so perhaps a few milimeter) spider crawled on the inside of my helmets visor. I panicked hard, brought the bike to a screaching halt, yanked the helmet from my head and threw it astaundingly far away into the wheat field where i stood next to.

I was lucky, would this have happen while riding at 250 km/h or knee down in a curve... no, i don't want to think about...

Finding the helmet afterwards was interesting enough...

morkalork• 3 years ago

I was cycling with loose shorts once and a bee flew up the leg and stung my upper inner thigh. I'm sure if there was anyone else on the path when that happened, I would've crashed into them.

interestica2• 3 years ago

I wonder what other fatal accidents have been caused by dropped electronics such as iPads and iPhones getting stuck under accelerators and brake pedals in cars and long haul trucks as an example.

Toyota recalled 38m cars because of potential for mats stuck under gas pedals. With at least one fatal incident:

https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2009/09/toyota_recal...

duckmysick• 3 years ago

The linked article says 3.8 million, a difference of one order of magnitude.

latchkey• 3 years ago

It could have been a book, an ipad, a phone, camera, anything really... I wonder if the general design could be changed to help prevent anything from falling between the pedal and the wall...

unilynx• 3 years ago

But if you know there's always going to be an iPad around the cockpit, you can advise the pilots to have a fixed method of securing it

Of course there's always something else that can go wrong, but a big part of why flying is so safe today is that they've gone through a lot of trouble to enumerate and mitigate everything that has gone wrong in the past

Etrnl_President2• 3 years ago

A lanyard securing it to airframe or wrist, with a quick-disconnect in case of entanglement?

nntwozz• 3 years ago

Maybe Apple Vision Pro (sometime in the future)?

buildbot• 3 years ago

The military version of this is basically the F35 helmet: https://www.radiantvisionsystems.com/blog/worlds-most-advanc...

Someone• 3 years ago

The pilot could drop its battery pack.

Also, if the battery pack were to come loose or the device would loose power in another way, I guess the pilot would rapidly take it off without much regard for where it ends up.

And of course, it would require a specialized version, as the pilot was already wearing a flight helmet.

simias• 3 years ago

My software dev mind went elsewhere, I wonder if the long term solution might not be to make all these controls inputs to some computer ("fly-by-wire") that could be toggled to some failsafe mode if the physical devices jam somehow. You could decouple the pilot's inputs from the copilot for instance.

Of course as we've seen in the past that can introduce its own issues, for instance during the AF447 crash: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_France_Flight_447

Confused, Bonin exclaimed, "I don't have control of the airplane any more now", and two seconds later, "I don't have control of the airplane at all!" Robert responded to this by saying, "controls to the left", and took over control of the aircraft. He pushed his side-stick forward to lower the nose and recover from the stall; however, Bonin was still pulling his side-stick back. The inputs cancelled each other out and triggered an audible "dual input" warning.

nerdponx2• 3 years ago

This story is horrifying, but it seems more like catastrophic pilot error than a problem with the fly by wire system.

Mawr5• 3 years ago

Ah, the dual input nonsense, see my other comment on just that: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36729484.

Here's the dual-input moment of this crash: https://youtu.be/e5AGHEUxLME?t=2876

andrewstuart2• 3 years ago

The fact that it was an ipad and not a book probably contributed to the fact that they could identify the gouge marks. If it was a book this might still be more of a mystery. The takeaway in the last paragraph seems to be a good one:

“Hopefully this accident will prompt operators to have a long hard look at all possible loose articles in cockpits and robustly securing valuable tools and sources of situational awareness like EFBs,” he told Vertical by email.

My understanding is that iPads are super popular for pilots, especially of non-commercial jets, because at the price point, plus buying a few apps, the experience and utility is pretty unmached. Aviation-grade equipment is super expensive because it goes through many regulatory hurdles which are, unfortunately, written in blood as this one might be. But I would hope to see regulators, if they do something, take a pragmatic and balanced approach given the benefits of accessible electronics.

pc86• 3 years ago

I think it's unlikely that there be any additional regulations from this, especially in the Part 91 / GA arena (which this flight was not), but I've been surprised before.

dghlsakjg• 3 years ago

I think some airlines are now requiring iPads for their pilots since it can replace all of the paper manuals and charts that need to be in the cockpit[1].

[1]https://www.engadget.com/2013-06-24-ipad-now-being-used-in-e...

xp84• 3 years ago

It seems like if there's a device important enough to warrant being in the cockpit, it ought to be secured semi-permanently to a purpose-built mount while the aircraft is in motion.

take a pragmatic and balanced approach given the benefits of accessible electronics

A very solid ProClipUSA mount for an iPad can be had for under $200, so assuming a 3x multiplier for regulatory certification, I don't think that requirement would make anything less accessible. I hope that devices flopping about the cockpit like this is a practice that will be phased out.

greensoap• 3 years ago

Everyone in aviation is moving to electronic flight bags. Military, commercial, non-commercial. The US Airforce moved to iPads 10 years ago -- https://www.zdnet.com/article/u-s-air-force-plans-50m-saving...

CodeWriter23• 3 years ago

I think it would be SOP to have all objects mounted or restrained in a helicopter cockpit.

rolph• 3 years ago

in an aircraft, its best to minimize the number and type of unsecured items.

its all relative, if the vehicle shifts place in the air relative to momentum, loose things get tossed around in the cabin/the cabin gets tossed around against loose items.

this was exacerbated by the tight cabinspace, and probably about a half second to get the obstruction out. i used to see a lot of something like, a beverage bottle, or a coffee mug, roll up under the pedals of a vehicle, after falling out of the beverage holder.

wpietri• 3 years ago

For anybody that liked the style of this sort of analysis, let me strongly recommend Dekker's "Field Guide to Understanding 'Human Error'": https://www.amazon.com/Field-Guide-Understanding-Human-Error...

It focuses on air crash investigations. But it's very useful to tech people in understanding the right way to approach incident investigations. It can be very easy to blame individuals ("stupid pilot shouldn't have dropped his iPad", etc), but that focus prevents improving safety over the long term. Dekker's book is a great argument for, as here, thinking about what actually happened and why as a systemic thing. Which provides much more fertile ground for making sure it doesn't happen again.

teachrdan• 3 years ago

The "Accidents in North American Climbing" series is a great intro to this style of analysis, too. A number of compelling, short accounts, usually with actionable analysis at the end. You get the added bonus of learning new things, like what an "air hammer" is, and how getting knocked out of your tent by one can help save you from an avalanche.

https://www.amazon.com/Accidents-North-American-Climbing-202...

Etrnl_President2• 3 years ago

Always check your equipment for F.O.D.

gpvos2• 3 years ago

FOD = Foreign Object Debris

dingaling• 3 years ago

*Damage

The use of Debris is a recent corruption of the term, apparently in an attempt to nounify the acronym.

It's also tautologous; if it's a foreign object then implicitly it's debris.

tiahura• 3 years ago

Didn’t this happen on an Airbus at least once? I seem to remember hearing that pilot’s iPhone got wedged behind the joystick and pushed the nose down until he could knock it loose.

jaywalk• 3 years ago

There's not really anywhere for an iPhone to get wedged around the side stick on an Airbus.

TT-392• 3 years ago

I think that was a camera

PuffinBlue2• 3 years ago

It was an RAF Voyager (Airbus A-330) I think you are referring to and a DSLR camera (Nikon D5300) that became wedged as you say[0].

The item didn't get knocked loose, it was the plane automation that saved the flight. The auto-pilot self-corrected and levelled off when it detected prolonged dangerous pitch down input[1].

[0] https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/service-inquiry-i... [1] Page 37 of https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/...

nayuki• 3 years ago

Mini Air Crash Investigation: How A Camera Sent This Passenger Jet Into A Terrifying NoseDive. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5VGsnztTo4A

nsonha• 3 years ago

The auto-pilot self-corrected and levelled off when it detected prolonged dangerous pitch down input

this makes Airbus the opposite of Boeing

the__alchemist• 3 years ago

Some loose thoughts:

Military aircraft cockpits sometimes don't have a great concept of "inside" and "outside", the way a cell, waterproof device, the aircraft's pressure seal etc do. If you drop something (FOD), there may not be a clearly defined boundary to where it can end up, or it may not be possible to see or get to it while strapped in etc. Rudder pedals, or the various mechanical and electrical connections around them, as indicated in the article, are a great example of this. If you can't find it, the AC may have to be grounded and thoroughly searched/panels removed etc.

Military avionics may be missing basic things that an EFB can help with, including maps, nav point and airport databases, weather info, ADSB info etc. EFBs are (IMO) a poor substitute due to the FOD concern here, the clunky touch screen interface (which you probably have to take gloves off for), the risk of getting locked out of important things like checklist and plates by BlackBerry, Foreflight licenses, passcode timers or other security layer etc.

You might have a jet that's 30 years old, just got retrofitted with a really nice radar etc, but the funding didn't make it through for a database, better displays/UI etc that would be better integrated with a jet, so you lean on the EFBs.

There are sometimes EFB mounts that can attach to a canopy via suction cup, clip onto various surfaces etc.

rsynnott3• 3 years ago

If you can't find it, the AC may have to be grounded and thoroughly searched/panels removed etc.

_Why_ is this? Weight reduction or something? On the face of it it sounds like a design flaw.

PuffinBlue2• 3 years ago

I think the article and this mishap is an example of the reason why - if you can't find a dropped and loose object in the cockpit then you can't fly the aircraft because it may move in flight to somewhere where it can interfere with the controls.

In writing this answer it struck me you might be reading AC as Air Conditioning, instead of AirCraft, which I suppose could have lead to your question asking about weight reduction.

awhow• 3 years ago

You don't want a screwdriver, or anything else, pressed up against a control rod or a rotating component.

83• 3 years ago

Because while the FOD might not be an immediate problem, it could bounce around and get caught in a mechanical linkage causing a fatal crash, could be rubbing against wires causing a fatal crash, could start on fire (if it has lithium battery) causing a fatal crash, could cause a huge delay when maintenance finds a random part bouncing around later on and they don't know what it's from... you get the idea.

maushu• 3 years ago

Because the missing device might cause something similar to this crash but instead with a internal mechanism. You really don't want loose stuff around moving mechanisms.

sph• 3 years ago

FOD? EFB? Any explanation of these acronyms for people outside the US military?

black6• 3 years ago

Foreign Object (Debris|Damage)

Electronic Flight Book

d1sxeyes• 3 years ago

Foreign Object Debris (shit that’s not supposed be there) and Electronic Flight Bag (an iPad or some other type of device which replaces paperwork)

fullstop5• 3 years ago

FOD = Foreign Object Debris

EFB = Electronic Flight ~Book~ Bag

edit: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_flight_bag

It's bag, not book.

foobarbecue2• 3 years ago

FOD is foreign object debris. EFB, "electronic flight bag" is discussed in the article.

guestbest• 3 years ago

Funny thing is that these terms are just as familiar outside the air wing of the military as civilian aviation. If you used these terms with infantry, they’d just look blankly at you.

dopamean• 3 years ago

FWIW these are aviation terms not military.

0ct4via2• 3 years ago

Neither of these terms are unique to the US, or the military, or indeed the US military specifically.

FOD = foreign object debris... basically anything loose that can end up somewhere it doesn't and cause Foreign Object Damage - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_object_damage

EFB = electronic flight bag ... basically using screens/displays (and more recently, the likes of iPads issued to Students / Flight Officers/ Pilots) which carry things like aircraft manuals, checklists, airport procedures, airport and aerodrome diagrams, etc. -- so called because they're designed to replace the "flight bag" that could be filled with over half a dozen (or more)heavy, chunky-as-heck books and binders containing the same information in paper form.

This becomes especially relevant when commercial aviation requires flight deck personnel to carry significant amounts of information like that with them, like train drivers can also have to do (rule books, locomotive / rolling stock manuals, track/depot diagrams, etc.)

Again, not remotely limited to the US military, or to the US or military in general -- these terms are common for those in aviation :)

kunwon13• 3 years ago

FOD = Foreign Objects and Debris EFB = Electronic Flight Bag. A flight bag, traditionally, contains charts and checklists. EFB means you have a device that contains those documents

20 years ago, I was an avionics technician on F-16 fighter jets in the USAF. We had 'FOD Walks' daily, which involved slowly walking down the flightline while staring at the ground, and picking up any loose objects

Even a tiny object, when ingested into a jet engine, can cause catastrophic damage. And F-16s have intakes very low to the ground, making them a much higher FOD risk.

The worst FOD events were when something broke. We used bit drivers to remove aircraft panels, and the bits were fairly standard screwdriver bits. Sometimes, one of those bits would shatter when applying force to remove a stubborn fastener. If that happens, you have to retrieve every single piece of metal. If you return your toolbox at the end of the day and it is missing anything that can't be accounted for, the entire flightline could be shut down while a search is carried out.

Dropping things in the cockpit could sometimes be much worse. If it drops down into a void left by removing a control panel, then it could potentially fall to the 'bottom' of the aircraft. If that happens, you'll be taking off all the panels in that vicinity, you'll have multiple people looking with flashlights, borescopes, etc.

If something is dropped but can't be found, that's probably a multi-day event that will involve some fairly high ranking people.

FOD was considered a serious threat, and a tiny piece of metal broken off of a tool could hinder operations for days at a time

pmarreck• 3 years ago

FOD = Foreign Object Damage, or in general, any object that could become a projectile when behind a jet or inhaled into it when in front of one.

EFB is actually defined in the article

FabHK2• 3 years ago

Near-crash due to dropped pen: Air show plane went into nose dive after loose pen in cockpit jammed the controls

https://archive.is/YmIgB

bbojan• 3 years ago

There was a helicopter crash in Canada due to an unrestrained tool bag: https://www.google.com/amp/s/beta.ctvnews.ca/local/ottawa/20...

And this one in Ireland due to a rag: https://www.irishtimes.com/news/helicopter-crash-caused-by-c...

mmaunder• 3 years ago

FOD? “EFBs are (IMO) a poor substitute due to the FOD concern here, the clunky touch screen interface (which you probably have to take gloves off for), the risk of getting locked out of important things like checklist and plates by BlackBerry, Foreflight licenses, passcode timers or other security layer etc.”???

This is basically just wrong. EFBs like ForeFlight are an incredibly rich and indispensable suite of tools from approach plates to a huge range of charts to log books to synthetic vision to adsb-in and much more. And operationally they’re very reliable and robust. I’m instrument rated, fly with a primary and backup iPad and have mine clamped to the yoke and it ain’t going anywhere.

ForeFlight licenses? What are you even talking about? In North America FF is almost a standard among GA pilots.

civilitty2• 3 years ago

The GP is talking about them in an operational military context, not a GA. I'm not too familiar with helicopters but see the L39 Alabtross or T38, for example. Even in trainer jets that are optimized for keeping students alive, the PIC can barely fit an iPad mini anywhere in the cockpit and there are tons of little places for things to fall and jam any number of mechanical linkages.

scarier• 3 years ago

For perspective, the thing EFBs primarily replace is paper charts and approach plates, which are probably a worse FOD hazard due to how many different ones you have to use on a long flight. Most military pilots are trained to “dummy-cord” or otherwise secure anything that can become a FOD hazard inside the cockpit. There are plenty of products out there that let you strap a tablet to your leg at least as securely as a traditional kneeboard or IFR strap.

elicash• 3 years ago

I know nothing about helicopters, but just from driving a car I'd imagine there are a variety of ways the pedal can jam even without something falling in that space. Does a helicopter have an equivalent of shifting your car into neutral? (Which, given you're in the air, might not be a good idea ha. But hopefully you get my gist.)

colechristensen• 3 years ago

The thing about helicopters is they are maintained to an insane level from an outside perspective. Parts have lifespans where you replace them when they’re expired regardless of condition, they go through intense inspections, pilots are experts. Things tend to not just “jam”.

There is a concept of disconnecting the engine from the rotors, but it’s not the kind of thing that happens accidentally.

alistairSH3• 3 years ago

The automobile equivalent would be something jamming your steering wheel to one side - even if you decoupled the motor from the rotor (and tried to auto-gyro to safety), the helicopter would still be stuck in a sideways spiral.

jldugger2• 3 years ago

Yea, autogyro (which I only know about due to this vid[1]) sounds like the answer to OP's question, but that would not (and clearly _did not) save this Chinook from what happened.

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eiTuwQGImNo

blantonl2• 3 years ago

Does a helicopter have an equivalent of shifting your car into neutral?

There really isn't. A helicopter is a coupled collection of parts and power that is working in concert to not immediately return to the ground in a violent manner. And a helicopter's power profile is also working in more dimensions than a car.

Each of the flight controls are critical components that work together. You take one out of the equation and things exponentially get more complex.

4rt• 3 years ago

An example often given (UK) is a drinks can being stuck under the brake pedal.

pengaru2• 3 years ago

I've only flown RC helis, more like, attempted to fly them before inevitably always crashing. At least whenever it was a full-blown "collective pitch" model.

Can't imagine how mortifying it must have been to have any of the controls jammed up like that. These things require constant corrective inputs to remain airborne in anything resembling stable flight. And close to the ground loading water from a stream, with all that turbulence? Nightmare fuel.

jacquesm5• 3 years ago

In the age of solid state gyros that's a lot easier now then it was in the 80's.

pengaru2• 3 years ago

Does that relate better or worse to flying a Rotak Chinook?

BXLE_1-1-BitIs1• 3 years ago

The Navpad is a simple device that secures gadgets to your thigh.

https://www.diblasi.com/aviation.htm

Stuff gets dropped. Suction cup mounts have the habit of coming loose at inopportune times.

blantonl2• 3 years ago

EFB (Electronic Flight Bags) have introduced all kinds of usability issues with aircraft that pilots must account for, and not just for mechanical reasons. Objects getting jammed into flight controls isn't an ipad phenomenon - clipboards, water bottles, etc all have contributed to mishaps.

One major issue with EFBs is many pilots extensive reliance on them for navigation and traffic avoidance, and their failure in flight since they are commercial off the shelf products. A very common issue during the summer months is for an iPad to very easily overheat and just shut down. Another is battery life. iPads are consumer electronic devices and aren't held to even a semblance of tolerances that aircraft avionics are held to, but they are relied upon as critial tools in flight now.

I've directly seen instances of aircraft that have violated airspace, gotten lost, and other issues that contribute just one more hole to the "swiss cheese" model of a catastrophic loss.

bredren• 3 years ago

The ill-fated submersible Titan has been routed for its use of consumer grade hardware in displays and controls. I doubt it’s the only vessel to rely on this class of electronics.

I wonder what it means that despite the risks involved these products continue to make it into mission critical workflows at sea and air.

legitster• 3 years ago

On the USS Indiana you can seem them proudly highlighting the US of an Xbox controller: https://youtu.be/0StWrXoN8nI?t=509 (Also note the insane amount of screens in the control room).

But highlighting the gamepad on the Titan seems like more of a "gotcha" that journalists have latched onto than a legitimate concern. It almost certainly didn't fail because of consumer grade hardware - it failed because of poor engineering of its hull.

chx• 3 years ago

Come now, the Titan should never have been built, the primary cause of loss was the carbon fiber laminate which is simply the wrong material for a submersible. This is not hindsight, there's a five year old terse answer on Quora of all places stating this: https://www.quora.com/Is-it-feasible-to-build-submarine-hull... and again three years ago https://www.quora.com/Why-isnt-the-military-navy-using-carbo...

Carbon fiber’s compression strength is poor. Its shear strength is low. It doesn’t dent; it either splinters or returns to shape and hides severe damage in the laminate.

Clamchop• 3 years ago

The Titan had multiple failsafes to drop ballast and return to the surface under its own buoyancy. One such failsafe was time-delayed by material corrosion in seawater so it would eventually ascend without intervention.

The cabin electronics weren't essential to its safety. The hull might have been, though. Hard to say.

kayfox• 3 years ago

There are stories of maintenance going behind the instrument panels in airliners and finding all sorts of lost paperwork.

mfkp• 3 years ago

My ipad shut down today on the ground while taking off due to extreme heat. Luckily I'm not an idiot and have backups in the cockpit.

FabHK2• 3 years ago

Somewhat related: An Icon A5 amphibious airplane [1] came down [2] because the occupants left a bluetooth speaker on top which hit the propeller upon take-off... You have to treat aircraft a bit more carefully than cars. (No fatalities, fortunately.)

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ICON_A5

[2] https://www.aviation-safety.net/wikibase/236728

_trampeltier• 3 years ago

Memorys. My sister once left a candle in the car. When i was driving down from a mountain (Oberalppass, Switzerland), the candle rolled under the break peddal just before a hard u-turn. Super scary feeling when you hit the break and nothing does happen. I hit the break a second time with full force, the candle got pushed away and the ABS safed me.

throitallaway• 3 years ago

*brake

exabrial• 3 years ago

Reminds me of the time I helped fish a mechanical pencil out of grand piano. It was dropped in _just_ the right spot that it jammed the sustain pedal open, but was completely unreachable, and the pianists sort of made the problem worse. Ended up using some mountain bike tools to get it out ironically (Park Tool IR-1.2).

It's very sad to see a tragedy like this caused by something so simple :(

jacquesm5• 3 years ago

Eliane Rodrigues had something like that happen, she dealt with it in the most graceful and hilarious way:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VBbRTRBY4D4

HeyLaughingBoy3• 3 years ago

There was some F1 driver a long time ago whose throttle jammed just as he was about to enter a turn. It cleared up after exiting, but now he realized that he could safely take that turn at wide open throttle and went on to win the race.

olliej• 3 years ago

Echoes of RAF Voyager ZZ333, where a camera jamming against a control caused an uncontrolled pitched down.

amelius• 3 years ago

Reminds me that it happens quite often that e.g. a water bottle or a jar of apple sauce gets lodged under the brake pedal of a car.

nier• 3 years ago

Both sets of pedals are of course linked so that the second pilot could never have brought the helicopter out of this predicament. Would an input monitoring and control system like on large airplanes have avoided the crash?

There’s an answer [0] on Quora that describes helicopter instructors having to deal with students frozen out of fear and wrestling for control of the inputs. Nightmare.

[0] https://www.quora.com/What-happens-if-the-pilot-and-copilot-...

Mawr5• 3 years ago

Would an input monitoring and control system like on large airplanes have avoided the crash?

Not at all, for example Airbus aircraft "helpfully" average out the inputs. There's a dual input warning, but warnings are weak at preventing accidents.

Some instances where the awful UX around the handling of dual input by aircraft contributed to incidents:

- https://youtu.be/6tIVu0Dpc2o?t=1754

- https://youtu.be/V2mMs-h4qGE?t=949

- https://youtu.be/Dl-Fl66Jfao?t=977

- https://youtu.be/tXGET4-N9FA?t=983

- https://youtu.be/e5AGHEUxLME?t=2259 & https://youtu.be/e5AGHEUxLME?t=2876

IMO, this is a critical design flaw with all current aircraft that should be addressed ASAP but what do I know :)

morsch• 3 years ago

True, though at least they are not physically linked and you can disable the averaging.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Side-stick

FullyFunctional• 3 years ago

A former coworker had a bad car crash after his cat jumped down between his feet!

When I took driving lesson, my instructor painted a vivid picture of the consequence of a crash while transporting heavy unsecured objects behind me - that lesson has stayed with me for over 30 years.

Simulacra• 3 years ago

I'm surprised they wouldn't have had that strapped to a thigh, or mounted.

Dropped iPad implicated in fatal Rotak Chinook helicopter crash

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