Microsoft kills Zune, Windows Live brands; Live ID renamed to Microsoft Account

http://www.theverge.com/2012/2/24/2821128/microsoft-kills-zune-windows-live-branding-in-windows-8

by Suraj-Sun • 14 years ago

81 79 14 years ago

javery• 14 years ago

To be fair these brands were dead long ago.

Disagree and unfair. These brands are alive and well. I use Zune, Contacts and pictures on a daily basis. Please make sure you know the topic before making unfair claims.

glhaynes• 14 years ago

The name "Zune" is used as a punchline. Which is not to say a thing at all about the actual product or whether it should be used as a punchline, but it is.

duaneb2• 14 years ago

I don't think I've ever seen a Zune in my life. Just because YOU use it doesn't mean it's not dead.

MichaelApproved• 14 years ago

Microsoft's services are so fragmented, any attempt to consolidate them is welcomed. It would be nice if they also worked on a consistent UI throughout all their properties. It feels like they outsource divisions to other companies with no UI specifications included.

The only unifying element is the Microsoft name in the URL. http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/default.aspx http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/ http://www.microsoft.com/visualstudio/en-us http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/ http://www.microsoft.com/bizspark/

And you can't say it's because they're a large company with many products because Apple manages to do a good job.

http://www.apple.com/ http://www.apple.com/iphone/ http://www.apple.com/iwork/ https://developer.apple.com/

brudgers2• 14 years ago

>"And you can't say it's because they're a large company with many products because Apple manages to do a good job."

I have a theory about Microsoft's web presence and the diversity of presentation styles and plethora of discontinuous information channels associated with it.

My impression is that it is as if Microsoft management is trying to herd cats. And perhaps it is.

Unlike Apple, Microsoft made a lot of it's employees rich (probably more than any other company, ever). When your critical talent has fuck you money, a top down "implement the leader's vision" management style is probably less appropriate model than something drawing some features from academia's "share what you have learned from pursuing your interests" model.

Google has been somewhere between the two - people have had time to pursue their interests but sharing work product has had more management control (though far less management control than Apple).

What I suspect Microsoft is trying to do internally, is to rely on its new design aesthetic to be preferred on its merits rather than implemented by fiat. Not so much because there is a high percentage of employees with fuck you money any longer, but because doing so is consistent with the corporate culture developed at a time when their were.

At least that's my theory.

r00fus2• 14 years ago

> Unlike Apple, Microsoft made a lot of it's employees rich (probably more than any other company, ever). When your critical talent has fuck you money, a top down "implement the leader's vision" management style is probably less appropriate...

That's not the problem - the solution to that has been known for years - stock options/grants and bonuses tied to corporate performance.

The problem is that Microsoft continued to grow rich by stagnating. The company got so good at milking it's cash cows, everything else had to be tied to those.

Furthermore, there was no vision at the top for over a decade. Ballmer may be many things but visionary is not one that most people would agree with. Vision is what allows you to see the iceberg looming in the distance, or the opening into a golden opportunity if you steer properly.

FrancescoRizzi• 14 years ago

The article begins with "Microsoft appears to be killing off ...", which is quite different than the title here on HN ("Microsoft kills...". The article's original title is also "How Microsoft is killing off..." - which is a bit more honest: this is speculation/analysis. It might be correct, but it's not the same as "Look, we got an official statement from MS saying these brands are now dead" - Sad to see title tweaks for sensationalism on HN, of all places :(

Suraj-Sun• 14 years ago

I would've gone for a detailed title too, like __ "How Microsoft is killing off the Zune and Windows Live brands in Windows 8; Live ID to be renamed to Microsoft Account" __ but that would be 118 characters(with spaces) well over title limit(80) at Hacker News.

pedalpete• 14 years ago

The only thing being 'killed' is the names, the services are being 'unified' under more logical brand names.

brudgers2• 14 years ago

Furthermore, the changes are consistent with the fundamental rubric of Metro Design - fierce reduction.

untog4• 14 years ago

The only one I still think was a missed opportunity is Zune. I have a Windows Phone and love it, but a lot of my friends consider the concept of a Windows Phone "icky". I don't think that Zune was such a failed brand that a Zune Phone couldn't have happened. Of course, I doubt business buyers would like that.

freehunter15• 14 years ago

I really love the Zune product (to the point where I'm afraid of being branded a shill whenever I talk about it). Windows Phone is a nice system, but the Zune aspect is what sold me on it versus an iPhone. There's literally nothing that compares, and I'm amazed Apple has fallen so far behind.

Microsoft needs to do some image control to become "cool" again. They've got some amazing products that are right on the bleeding edge (Xbox, Zune/WP7, Windows 8 is kind of out-there and radical for better or worse), but Xbox is the only successfully "cool" brand they have. Because it doesn't have "Windows" attached to it.

If Zune was redefined as a phone (Not Zune Phone, just Zune), it would sell like hotcakes.

ajays• 14 years ago

I have never owned or seen (IRL) a Zune. What's so great about it? What makes it better than an iPod?

TylerE• 14 years ago

I don't think it's an image problem, really. It's a focus problem.

I'd never buy a piece of Microsoft portable tech, because they always end up killing everything they release within a few years.

If they could just stick with something for a while, I might have some confidence, but between PlaysForSure (hah!), Zune, Kin, etc, they give me no REASON to trust them.

pauldino• 14 years ago

I think the first thing they should do to improve their "cool" factor is to make Zune work on non-Windows platforms. I think the Zune software, hardware, and service are all fantastic but more and more the cool kids aren't using Windows, and in my experience running the Zune software in a VM adds enough friction that it usually isn't worth it.

duaneb2• 14 years ago

Yea, but until Zune works on my mac, there's no way I'd even consider it. Microsoft has to play nice with the other kids in the yards to get my money.

reidmain• 14 years ago

I'm glad to see more companies moving away from overly invasive branding. I don't need to see the name of the company in front of everything.

No one would ever say "open Windows Live Photo Gallery". They would say something like "go to Photos" or "open the Photos app" and now this simplified branding will make these things more obvious and easier to find for the average consumer.

mhurron• 14 years ago

How many renamings have these things been through already?

Legion• 14 years ago

If at first you don't succeed, rebrand, rebrand again.

TomAnthony• 14 years ago

I'd forgotten about the existence of Zune until this article!

rvcamo• 14 years ago

Good to see Microsoft making some changes as regard to these services. They were confusingly named to begin with and the integration of them all into Windows seamlessly is what is going to hold them afloat while they figure out what they are doing on the mobile space.

tcskeptic• 14 years ago

Every time they rebrand or kill a technology that they rolled out with great fanfare, I become less and less likely to trust them with an investment. (This is true both for consumer stuff and for development stuff ) Product rationalization is good, but there is a real cost when they change direction.

ax• 14 years ago

The services are still there right? This is just a name change?

m_for_monkey• 14 years ago

And Visual Basic? Only the name stayed after they replaced the product with .NET.

billpatrianakos• 14 years ago

My thoughts exactly. But beyond trust there's also confusion. I'm not much of a Microsoft customer or user but from I've seen it feels like they keep doing this every few years. There used to be MSN which is now somehow rolled into Hotmail and the Live ID thing which also has something to do with Hotmail but I'm not quite sure and so on which is very confusing to me. If I don't get it as someone who is very familiar with a plethora of (not) confusing web services then I fear for the mere mortals out there who receive some sort of notification that Microsoft Service X is now Microsoft Service Y. The other thing I notice is the Applefication of MS branding in some of this. Music, Calendar, Photos? If I were a MS customer I'd be reminded of Apple's offerings and wondering how they compare with names like this. Now that last concern is pure conjecture but I think it could be reasonable to guess that the more their services sound like Apple products the worse it is for them. There has to be another way to simplify the brands. Google does it without sounding like they're trying to be Apple.

Edit: After thinking about what I just said it occurred to me that it's very easy to be a critic and while I still stand behind my statements I think there's a ton of room for me to be very wrong. After all, I don't work at Microsoft and I don't have complete information. They're a multibillion dollar company so they must know something. Meanwhile I'm just some asshole making flip judgements in my pajamas, dreaming of my business being successful one day.

cenuij• 14 years ago

It's not just that, it's this frenzy they have to rebrand themselves as an 'online' experience/company.

I ask my friends freely and naturally, "Do you have a google account?".

The thought of asking my friends "Do you have a microsoft account, yeah those guys, the ones that deliberately put the web into stagnation for years with their shitty IE5/6 browsers, and killed many cool technology companies through monopoly abuse because they was scared of them, and those guys that continue to try and subvert technology by proxy because they cannot innovate online?"; that thought fills me with dread.

I don't want to ask my friends if they have an account with these guys. Maybe the xbox360 crowd do... shrug

nhebb• 14 years ago

I have a cousin who works in PR for Microsoft, and he told me that since Ballmer became CEO the headcount in marketing and sales positions has tripled. (This was a few years ago and was just his ballpark estimate.) I can't help but think that rebranding moves like this are a byproduct of the change in management from engineering based leadership to marketing based leadership.

AznHisoka• 14 years ago

I had a Hotmail account 10 years ago.. did it change to a Live account before.. and now it's a Windows account?.. or wait is it now my MSN Messenger account?... I'm confused.

ChrisNorstrom6• 14 years ago

Microsoft Windows Live Mail Office 365 for Games for Windows Live. Get it right.

shadowfox2• 14 years ago

I couldn't find anything that looked like that. Are you just making stuff up?

spoiledtechie2• 14 years ago

Link-bait. Aren't killing anything. This is an opinion article.

ChrisNorstrom6• 14 years ago

Finally, they're consolidating all their incoherent branding nonsense. As a PC user I'm wasn't sure of how much more of this I could take. "Windows Live Office Live for Games for Windows Live. Lets not talk about the "Windows Update" & "Microsoft Update" or "Windows 7 Starter", "Windows 7 Home Basic", "Windows 7 Home Premium", "Windows 7 Professional", "Windows 7 Enterprise", "Windows 7 Ultimate". Office Live, Live.com, Windows Live, Games for Windows Live, Windows Live Mail.

It's like they have a whole department at Microsoft dedicated to making as many brands out of the words "Windows" and "Live". Finally, I can tell my mom to just open up "Mail", or go to the "Calendar" instead of "Outlook Express" or "Windows Live Mail". Oh I forgot, I got sick of MS's multiple personality disorder and got my family Gmail accounts.

freehunter15• 14 years ago

The various versions of Windows are actually very important. I haven't heard news if they're going to be continuing multiple products in Windows 8.

Windows has a very broad reach. It's on a lot of computers, used in very different ways, and Windows 7 naming is quite easy to understand.

Windows 7 Starter is not sold in stores but rather preloaded on netbooks and low performance devices. This is how Windows 8 on ARM will be.

Windows 7 Home Basic is a version of Windows 7 that is only generally available in emerging markets. It has geographic limitations on activation. I don't think you would find it on the shelf in the US.

Windows 7 Home Premium is what the consumer sees on the shelf in the store, or on their computer from Best Buy. It's Windows for "home".

Windows 7 Professional is for professionals to use on their work computer. Businesses use it. It adds the ability to sign onto a domain, software restrictions, EFS, etc. Home Premium and Professional are the only two you should see on store shelves or preinstalled.

Windows 7 Enterprise is only available if you have an enterprise contract with Microsoft. You buy it through volume licensing.

Windows 7 Ultimate is fairly restricted in its distribution. The only way for a normal user to know about or get Ultimate is an Anytime Upgrade, for a fee. It's Windows 7 Enterprise with individual licensing.

Each serves its purpose, and they're not all easily combined in features or hardware requirements. There should be no confusion amongst the public on which Windows 7 version is meant for them unless whoever does their tech support intentionally tries to confuse them.

unexpected4• 14 years ago

Why does it have to be like this? Why the distinction between Windows 7 Professional and Windows 7 Enterprise?

If Windows 7 Ultimate is the same thing sa Windows 7 Enterprise? Why the distinction?

Window 95 was just...windows 95. Windows XP was simply "professional" and "home".

99% of people (including work people) use their computers for checking their email, surfing the internet, using office, and playing media - this is why other companies (Google, Apple) are kicking ass and stealing MS's "home" customers.

The pervasive MS integration with everything is MS's only defense on the corporate enterprise. Their advantage in the home market is eroding. People just don't need to buy PC's any more.

ChrisNorstrom6• 14 years ago

"The various versions of Windows are actually very important."

Bullshit!. I am the average consumer and NOTHING is more important than me and my feelings! If you confuse me and make me feel stupid then I'll just buy one of those really nice Apple Mac computers that anyone who's important has. I heard they don't get viruses. And they're sooo pretty. They'll look much better on my desk. And my friends will be impressed. They make me feel smart and creative. They make me feel good.

Lost sale because Microsoft doesn't understand basic psychology.

aChrisSmith• 14 years ago

This reminds me of the "Windows Live Hotmail" fiasco.

Annoying as all the brand vacillation is, this move looks like it is in the right direction.

thought_alarm• 14 years ago

The death of the Zune brand was announced ages ago. "Zune" has been nothing more than the punchline to a joke for years now.

And the failure of the Live brand is, well, not unexpected. It caps off a decade of weird and unfocused branding strategies from the Big M.

georgieporgie• 14 years ago

Forget DDE, we're on to OLE now. Forget OLE, it's COM. You added a DispInterface to COM? Let's call it ActiveX, even though it has nothing to do with DirectX or any other -X. No, wait, let's put the X on the other end! XBox. Sweet. Windows CE makes too much sense, let's call it Windows Mobile, no wait, Windows Phone (so, no tablet vision?). Let's call it Outlook Express, even though it has no relationship to Outlook whatsoever. No wait, Outlook Express is dead. Oh, actually, it's now Windows Live Mail.

Microsoft should just give up on their perpetual rebranding and do some real work. I still can't put my HID Bluetooth device into park or sniff (low-power) mode because their Bluetooth stack still sucks, but they've managed three or four rebranding efforts since Bluetooth hit the scene a decade ago. All of their rebranding efforts are just snapshots in time. They should just stick with naming things by year (or half decade), since that's really what it boils down to.

xtc• 14 years ago

As a Zune user since the first gen I'm pretty disappointed it didn't take off. I honestly can't imagine having to find another decent portable media player that works so well. Now I just need to keep my Zune HD functional for the rest of time.

joejohnson• 14 years ago

And yet it's not enough to catch Apple. Even Google's products are better integrated now.

jinushaun• 14 years ago

Finally! Sane naming conventions from Microsoft? Hopefully, no more "Windows Phone 7 series phone" nonsense in the future.

Microsoft kills Zune, Windows Live brands; Live ID renamed to Microsoft Account

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