Apology to 37signals

http://blog.curebit.com/

by allangrant • 14 years ago

152 207 14 years ago

blog.curebit.com

FredBrach2• 14 years ago

It seems the blog is completely down.

latchkey• 14 years ago

Maybe that is the apology.

FredBrach2• 14 years ago

No I've managed to read it a while ago

suking• 14 years ago

They must have got a hold of 37's backend and forgot to change the database password to their own!

pkrefta• 14 years ago

Look for Google Cache link few comments up.

allangrant• 14 years ago

The actual apology:

Recently we launched a site with several pages copied from 37signals' Highrise. We did more than take inspiration from their design - we actually used html & css code, and hotlinked to images on their site. We apologize to David and 37signals for ripping off their work. It was stupid, lazy, and disrespectful of their creative efforts. It's particularly painful for us to have done this to 37signals because they are big heroes of ours. We just hope they will accept our apologies.

cilurnum6• 14 years ago

One wonders how this ever happened and why on Earth they didn't have HTML and front-end skills enough to do their own presentation.

The fact that their blog is now down with a database error does not exactly inspire much confidence.

RandallBrown• 14 years ago

They're sitting around and one of them reads the 37 signals blog post about A/B testing and conversion rates. He says "Dude, do you think their landing page will actually convert better than our current one?" "I don't know, lets try it."

So one of them snags the source from Highrise and changes some images around. I'm sure he previewed it, it looked fine and he published it. He probably forgot to change out the button images because they looked fine.

Who knows if this is how it happened, but it really seems like it could have been an honest (but definitely pretty stupid) mistake.

jakejake2• 14 years ago

It's not too hard to imagine. Some designer was assigned to replicate the page and he did the easiest thing possible. They probably figured nobody gives a crap, and they would normally be right. But for whatever reason somebody decided to call these particular guys out and for whatever reason this particular case caught on the tech sites.

I would bet money there is not one web designer here who has never taken a tiny snippet from another site. It's kinda more of a matter of the quantity of content that they took. Plus the hot linking was especially dumb.

sloppy_startup• 14 years ago

this is an example of the kind of sloppy stuff that happens when an angel investor with a big mouth and no taste puts money into 500 startups. you can't expect the best folks are gonna work with c-rate investors. cut rate investors = cut rate entrepreneurs. shame on this company for their blatant theft.

melling• 14 years ago

Does creating all these throw away accounts impact the system much? You know you're gonna say something offensive to someone so you create a burn account.

davemc500hats2• 14 years ago

thanks. think you meant "when an angel investor with a big mouth and no taste like 500 Startups puts money into..."

regardless, we don't shy away from helping our founders, even should they go astray. not proud right now, but we hope to be helpful where possible.

live & learn.

adamtmca2• 14 years ago

How old are you guys? Not making a judgement, genuinely just wondering.

geoffreydgraham• 14 years ago

I think they're in their mid-20s. They screwed up, apologized, asked how they could make it right, got crucified some more, and now have fully prostrated themselves before DHH and the court of public opinion. It's a horrible experience for them, and I reckon they've learned something. One of the lessons they've likely learned is that people are perfectly cool with successful, experienced entrepreneurs casting endless screeds against inexperienced folks who should have known better but didn't. Wonder if they'll have a chance to apply that lesson when/if they become successful themselves. Given their penitence, a little mercy is in order.

cilurnum6• 14 years ago

"and hotlinked to images on their site."

Jesus...............

LearnYouALisp3• 14 years ago

It boggles the mind!

ainsleyb• 14 years ago

I have multiple responses to multiple comments on this thread, so I'm going to continue here.

For full disclosure, I'm a young entrepreneur (<25), run a company that was started a few months after curebit (my cofounder applied and interviewed for the same YC class with a different idea), have raised pretty close to what curebit has raised, and am also a 500startups-funded company.

I'd just like to take a minute to hope that a couple of screw ups by others won't put companies like ours at a disadvantage. It makes me sad to think that "how old are you guys" is one of the first questions someone would ask, since I'm not sure physical age has anything to do with how people react to different situations. I'd sure like to think that if I screwed up people would chalk it up to me being me and not my generation.

I also hope people realize the big mouth investor with no taste (especially in what he wears ;) isn't the only person vetting 500startup companies. He has a whole investment team. Yes, Dave does pick a lot of the 500s companies himself (he was our biggest advocate), but the entire 500s team has a say. I also think you're overlooking the fact that curebit was also supported by YCombinator (and Dave has a lot of respect for PG's team and the companies they accept).

I don't condone what curebit did (far from it). I am close to positive someone at YC would have at least helped hash out ideas for design (and 500s' mantra is design, data, distribution), and, Dave has always said: running lean doesn't mean running cheap. But I hope that what one company does doesn't ruin it for the rest of us.

adamtmca2• 14 years ago

I was the one who asked their ages. I'm 22. I was just wondering.

I knew that if I just asked "how old are you?" it would come off as a snarky comment on the situation. That's why I also included "Not making a judgement, genuinely just wondering."

While I wasn't trying to tie age to the issue at hand, I would have to disagree with your assertion that physical age doesn't have anything to do with how people react to different situations. Maybe experience is the real driver but obviously that is closely related to age. Either way that's neither here nor there.

As for the rest of your comment, I'm not totally clear on what you were trying to get across or who you were responding to but it still doesn't seem like it deserved to be down voted.

sachingulaya• 14 years ago

You should probably edit the title to "Apology to 37signals, Kinoma, and LaunchBit"

Edit: The LaunchBit image is a stock photo. I apologize.

ceejayoz6• 14 years ago

The LaunchBit one is particularly egregious. http://yfrog.com/odx67yoj

kristofferR• 14 years ago

Nope, it's an iStockPhoto illustration. http://www.istockphoto.com/stock-illustration-9935405-retro-...

Both Launchbit and ShareBooster is breaking the iStockPhoto TOS by using it in their logo though.

davemc500hats2• 14 years ago

actually, both LaunchBit and Curebit got the logo from istockphotos. both are in process of changing I believe.

Kique• 14 years ago

"Recently we launched a site with several pages copied from 37signals’ Highrise. We did more than take inspiration from their design – we actually used html & css code, and hotlinked to images on their site. We apologize to David and 37signals for ripping off their work. It was stupid, lazy, and disrespectful of their creative efforts. It’s particularly painful for us to have done this to 37signals because they are big heroes of ours. We just hope they will accept our apologies."

from Google cache http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?sclient=psy-ab&...

pg_bot• 14 years ago

The blog is down, I am getting "error establishing a database connection"

chris123• 14 years ago

Pretty good apology Dave McClure wrote for them.

Animus7• 14 years ago

I know sarcasm when I see it, but judging from the earlier exchange this would actually not be surprising.

designNERD2• 14 years ago

Agreed. Based on Dave's response on twitter and the exchange between Allan and DHH, I believe Dave cracked the whip on them. This apology doesn't have the same tone.

jbrowning2• 14 years ago

The copying seems to go deeper than just an experimental A/B test. Compare:

http://highrisehq.com/signup

with the top half of

http://www.curebit.com/pricing

Edit: Replaced Basecamp signup page with Highrise signup page.

il• 14 years ago

Please. Hundreds of startups use a 37signals-inspired pricing page with 3 plans and the middle "most popular option". Now you're just going on a witch hunt.

cilurnum6• 14 years ago

It's a little more than skin deep.

jbrowning2• 14 years ago

I would say that the "Choose Plan" buttons are a little more than "inspiration". In fact, they're exact copies:

http://imgur.com/Foah7

iamjustlooking• 14 years ago

When does it cross the line from inspired to copied? The HTML markup for the 3 panel middle thing is almost identical. The Choose Plan buttons are pixel for pixel identical according to imagemagick compare. Was the other page just inspired also?

dedene2• 14 years ago

I agree.. BUT: i.e. the "Choose plans" buttons are just copied without any change from the 37Signals signup page. Compare http://highrisehq.com/images/btn_chooseplan_small.png with http://www.curebit.com/images/icons/choose_btn_small.png?132...

ghshephard• 14 years ago

You can't look at the two pages, side-by side and say that curebits was "inspired" - it's blatant copying, and poorly done. Look at all the elements that were basically cut & pasted:

  o FREE "On all Accounts" up top.
  o Thicker border on center rectangle
  o Offset rectangle in center
  o Black /  Same shade of blue for the Name, description of price.

Interesting to note, there was a (successful in my book) attempt at original design by using Red/Orange instead of Black for the price.

  o "Choose Plan" - Same name, positioning - and bit-for bit identical.  
  o "Cancel Anytime" Immediately above three options
  o Statement of "Confidence"  (Trusted vs Safe Secure)
  o Quoted endorsement below the statement of confidence.

It's not illegal, or even particularly immoral - what it is is shady, and unprofessional behavior by anybody who wanted to be able to work as a well-regarded designer. Whoever did that work didn't have a lot of self respect as a designer - and, based on the professional designers that I know - probably didn't consider themselves to be first and foremost a designer. Probably an engineer who had to slap some UI elements onto their website. If all you are trying to do is bottom-feed and make $$$, (Think about how Zynga, or Samsung build many of their products) - then this is actually a pretty good approach - just copy what has worked for others.

Real world story - when Netscape finally gave up the ghost as a software company and Mike Homer came up on top, and convinced Jim Barkdsale that our future was as a "Portal" - Jim Barksdale, our Beloved and incredibly well regarded CEO, came out at an all hands, spelled it out to the company, and said "The competition is now the portals - and that's something that we can go out and copy." - he used that word, "copy".

Within a week, we had _entire walls_ covered with plotted printouts (remember those?) of Yahoo's Portal, and, underneath those plotted printouts - element by element replicas depicting Netscape.com. You could almost overlay them.

It was successful. Netscape sold for $4 Billion to AOL ($10 Billion on the last day of trading) - but I can guarantee you that none of those designers were particularly proud of the work they where doing, and hopefully didn't put it in their portfolio.

matthewking• 14 years ago

It looks like they've now changed their pricing page to remove the similarities. I didn't see it before but certainly at least the boxes around packages are gone and the buttons have been changed.

[edit] Found an image of how it looked here for anyone interested: http://yfrog.com/nwxfxoyj

auxbuss2• 14 years ago

Clicking the link (to http://blog.curebit.com/) I'm getting 'Error establishing a database connection'.

jsavimbi7• 14 years ago

Don't you have a Google+ account you could've posted it to instead of trying to host it in your own? Are you seriously trying to micro-manage your damage control this way?

I thought they vetted these people or something and would have a damage control recipe in place after the AirBnB debacle last year.

parfe• 14 years ago

Are you taking issue with a company posting an apology on their own website? I'm not sure how that qualifies as micro-managing.

jsavimbi7• 14 years ago

I'm shaking my head in disbelief, not really taking issue with anything at this point. Either this guy is trying his damnedest to minimize fallout, unserstandably yet so very amateurish, or he's really that clueless and incompetent.

n9com• 14 years ago

Looks like they didn't spend their $1.2m on getting a decent web server either - website down.

JackWebbHeller2• 14 years ago

The whole debate is frankly embarrassing for both sides... Of course, admittedly more so for Curebit - but I can't be the only one who thinks that DHH's cocky attitude, publicly tweeting things like "Fucking scumbags", is just embarrassing when he is the main face of a friendly and professional company like 37Signals...?

zerostar078• 14 years ago

You 're not the only one. I would even call it an understandable mistake for someone who just launched. Telling them to go get some ethics, calling them indecent and scumbags is not the right response. You point their wrongdoings, and let others come to those conclusions, esp. when the accused shows some signs of repent.

For comparison, when the Oatmeal found his comics stolen, here's how he responded: http://theoatmeal.com/blog/funnyjunk

PS. i'm not defending anyone, but as an outsider i found the response was over the top and allangrant didn't call any names

jsavimbi7• 14 years ago

Are you under the assumption that these are fresh-faced kids out of school who don't know how to dress themselves, let alone "launch" a web app?

You might want to go and study some LinkedIn profiles before apologizing for these guys. And as far is DHH is concerned, why would you want to steal from him in the first place. He gave his best work away for free. I'm no fan but I believe he's entitled to call these people out. In whatever tone he deems appropriate. Get used to it if you think following Curebit's steps is the way to go. It's a rough world out there.

Yet Stallman is coddled every time he calls someone "evil" and wishes them dead. Odd that.

ktsmith2• 14 years ago

You realize there's two parts to the oatmeal response right? It also includes strong language. For example: "To the users of FunnyJunk: I never had plans to sue FunnyJunk and get it shut down; I just wanted my stolen comics removed -- your admin is a moron who chooses his words about as carefully as a mule chooses where to take a shit."

unobfuscate• 14 years ago

Amazing response. This is an even stronger case, as these clone sites are duplicating his business, and taking money right from his pocket in the process. He/She handled it in a standup fashion.

This makes the whole debate even stranger. The fella from Curebit messed up in a lot of ways (really, he couldn't even be bothered to host the content himself?), but on a scale of 1 to a million, I would put this whole mess at closer to 1. Let's be frank, any html/css/js you toss online can be sourced, it is the nature of the client side rendering world we live in.

Where do you draw the line, is it not okay to use someone else's javascript function? Is it not okay to use their mix of background colour and fonts? When we start to decide what is and is not okay, we start to create some scary precedence.

bigiain4• 14 years ago

Two comments. Firstly, it seems to me that the current mega upload drama seems to say that the FBI thinks funnyjunk's business model puts them smack in the middle of whatever the proper legal terminology is when lawyers mean "fucking scumbags". Secondly, you only need to click on "update" link from the page you linked to to find the oatmeal guy calling the funnyjunk guy a moron...

I understand that there's a large section of the US society that has a significantly lower tolerance for "curse words" than at least my cross section of Australian society, but "fucking scumbag" is pretty close the the terminology I'd use if someone "stole" a bunch of design work like that from my business (I'd not use that terminology quite so publicly, since the other stakeholders where I am wouldn't appreciate it, and I'm happy to self-censor on a business front to meet their expectations...)

ryanbraganza• 14 years ago

Did you see the update?

"To the users of FunnyJunk: I never had plans to sue FunnyJunk and get it shut down; I just wanted my stolen comics removed -- your admin is a moron who chooses his words about as carefully as a mule chooses where to take a shit."

http://theoatmeal.com/blog/funnyjunk2

mcantelon2• 14 years ago

It's truly shocking to hear DHH use profanity.

ascendant• 14 years ago

Nice sarcasm. The fact still remains that maybe DHH should take a deep breath and remember back before he was a millionaire. I'm by no means condoning what Curebit has done but unless DHH tried to contact them discreetly and they told him to go hell, I think maybe he could have taken it down a notch before he went roadhouse on these guys.

vasco• 14 years ago

Being a rude person for a long time should not grant rights to be a rude person in the present.

dedene2• 14 years ago

Agreed!

GuiA• 14 years ago

Regarding your dhh comment, quite a few engineers cultivate this image of themselves very consciously (and some companies, although not 37Signals, have a reputation for having higher concentrations of such engineers). At the very least, they're smart people and therefore are likely conscious that the way they publicly speak influences how most people will view them and the company they represent.

It's a shame that we all can't be polite and friendly and remember pg's golden rule every once in a while, but alas there's not much we can do about it.

Let's spend our time on more important things :)

electic• 14 years ago

I tend to agree. We are ALL inspired by other people's work. If you say you are "completely original" then you are the scumbag and a blatant liar.

I think DHH should have just said that "I am sure it will be resolved and Curebit will do the right thing." instead. The whole situation is just lame.

stephth2• 14 years ago

Most companies handle this with a well architected wall of PR. DHH is managing to be direct while maintaining full integrity. I don't think it's embarrassing at all, it's quite an achievement, and it's hugely refreshing to see.

Curebit not only screwed up bad, but they kept digging deeper and deeper in their debate. I'm really glad they're being called for with directness and severity. You should be too.

patrickod2• 14 years ago

Maintaining integrity usually doesn't consist of calling people "fucking scumbags". Notify people of their mistake, make it known that what they have done is not acceptable but crossing into personal insults and curses is not acceptable.

malbiniak2• 14 years ago

With all due respect to Jason and DHH, I wouldn't consider 37signals a "friendly" company. Mailchimp is a friendly company, but even still, I could see Ben (or any founder) having a similar reaction.

If I found someone blatantly repurposing something I worked hard to create, I'd have a similar reaction. This guys aren't CXOs of a Fortune 100 company that need to fear how the board and stock holders may react (and god fucking bless 'em for that). They're scrappy guys still hustling like they launched yesterday.

Calling them "fucking scumbags" isn't a cocky response, it's a free reality check. Poor Allan had a pretty significant lapse of judgment, and DHH may have given him the most valuable lesson of his life.

imcqueen• 14 years ago

37Signals is making their point heard, but it's not the professional way to handle things. I completely understand the reaction, DHH is rightfully upset. It's usually best to take some time to cool off and then respond when you're a little less emotional.

moe4• 14 years ago

They're scrappy guys still hustling like they launched yesterday.

I don't think DHH has had a need to hustle in a while. He could have easily embarrassed cluebit with a witty remark, rather than embarrassing himself at the same time by the choice of language.

BallinBige• 14 years ago

Would you prefer the (more creative) way Tiny Tower approached Zynga for blatantly ripping their game concept + design? yes, its embarrassing for both sides - but people SHOULD know these kind of things

https://s3.amazonaws.com/nbpromo/dearzynga.jpg

zerostar078• 14 years ago

It's interesting that zynga mostly gets a free pass from name-calling when they ripoff game ideas. The only way to explain it is that zynga is a public company that makes lots of money, which surprisingly gives them some sort of immunity.

BryanB55• 14 years ago

I partially agree and thought the same thing when reading DHH's responses but it seems that that may be part of his personality. If you read any of his blog posts on SVN he tends to use some "not-so-friendly language"... In my opinion, it gets annoying and seems a bit unintelligent when he is always cursing.

alexobenauer• 14 years ago

Site down; see cache: http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:7NYBhgZ...

Vaanir• 14 years ago

Maybe it's times like these where this bookmarklet is useful:

javascript:void((function(){var a=location.href.replace(/^http%5C:%5C/%5C/(.*)$/,'$1');location.href='http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:+escape(a);})())

mindslight• 14 years ago

And where's the apology from 37signals, venturebeat, and the submitters for helping to turn HN into TMZ?

romain_g• 14 years ago

No matter how people on both sides react, they are all at the very least decently smart persons and an acceptable apology shouldn't be only a place for redemption. I can't imagine people at Curebit assuming that the ripoff wouldn't be discovered. So why did they do that?

petercooper• 14 years ago

I'm sure I've seen the design of that "Error establishing a database connection" page somewhere before..

manojlds• 14 years ago

The best way to break a site is to have it come on the front page of Hacker News!

curiousfiddler2• 14 years ago

Man! Curebit is definitely very wrong, but all those abuses just don't make a pretty read on my twitter feed. I am gonna unfollow DHH. I respect him a lot for what he's achieved, but all that profanity leaves a very very bad taste. Personal learning: never abuse. Those words mean nasty things.

curiousfiddler2• 14 years ago

Don't understand the downvotes at all... Curebit's case sets a very ugly example. Profanity in the same sense sets a very ugly example for younger minds, especially when coming from such a well respected entrepreneur.

shareme2• 14 years ago

Unfortunately, blog author did not get the lesson.. 37Signals was ONLY ONE-OF_SITES that Cutebit stole from..

Thy have clear habit of doing so

auxbuss2• 14 years ago

Please cite.

getsat• 14 years ago

http://www.curebit.com <-> http://kinoma.com

And more copying from 37Signals:

http://twitter.com/#!/dhh/status/163295779593785345

http://twitter.com/#!/dhh/status/163298220322209792

tbsdy• 14 years ago

Database connection error...

guynamedloren• 14 years ago

I hope they're A/B testing their apologies, because that one sucked.

dkrich• 14 years ago

The thing that amazes me most about this whole debacle is how completely unnecessary it was. Web designers are popping up everywhere like fucking mushrooms, and these guys (presumably pretty intelligent) chose to just steal a design.

Developing a nice-looking design is the easiest part of a startup. Generating the idea, interest, and funding is what stalls 98% of them. They had all that, but screwed up on the most doable aspect of the company. That alone greatly calls into question the judgment of the founders (not to mention the moral implications).

sunchild2• 14 years ago

For me, the really objectionable part isn't the "thievery", it's the sloppiness of it.

Anyone with half a clue knows that if you're copying HTML:(a) you'd better redact any references to the original source, (b) you ought to change the class names, and (c) you sure as shit better not link to resources on the owner's servers. After all, most HTML/CSS is borderline protectable under copyright in the first place.

P.S. If you're copy/pasting HTML/CSS, you're pretty terrible at web design. Anyone with even the slightest facility in web design could whip up a clone of the 37Signals landing page in an evening without doing more than sneaking a peek at the source.

pbreit• 14 years ago

That's why the "accident" explanation is somewhat plausible, imo.

untog3• 14 years ago

Developing a nice-looking design is the easiest part of a startup.

Yes and no. They didn't choose the design because it looked nice, they chose it because it had already been A/B tested as more effective (admittedly, for a product other than their own, but still).

As someone who has created nice designs, and as someone that has also extensively multivariant tested designs to see which one gets a 1% boost in clickthrough... the 'nice' part is just the tip of the iceberg.

To clarify: not defending what they did. Just suggesting what I think their reasoning was.

ahoyhere10• 14 years ago

It really reminded me of the homeschooling family in some small town who named their kid "Hitler" and then tried to sue the local bakery who refused to put his name on a cake. They really seemed to think the whole US would get behind them as a "free speech" movement.

If you're gonna name your kid something horrible, that's one thing. But if you actually think people are going to support you for it? A whole nother kettle of fish entirely.

The scariest people are people who not only do wrong, but who don't have the good sense to realize how others will react to it. They either entirely lack "theory of mind," or it's so out of touch with reality as to be utterly useless.

Whenever you come across people like that in life/business, I've found that it's smart to run as fast as possible the other way.

pnmahoney2• 14 years ago

I don't think anyone has a final answer, but really _how close_ do designs have to be so as to lack integrity? (assuming that they hadn't straight up lifted the CSS, images, button etc... which they did, which is clearly wrong.)

Ex: DHH says http://elance.com is inspiration, not theft. Ok.

Ex 2: A more difficult edge is http://coursekit.com I instantly recalled their design after seeing this scandal, although I'd initially taken note of it for its effectiveness.

Their similarity to basecamp is on the front page only, and no assets stolen. (full disclosure: competitor, vaguely, for a hackathon-started education product I'm working on.)

Like, we can think up a MILLION edge cases. That's not the point. I'm really, really curious to hear what you guys think the difference IS.

and please, please, PLEASE don't respond to this with vitriol on other side. if you think there are problems happening here in the way we treat design, and how ppl react, just DON'T add to it in that way.

EDIT: edited to match repost, because of downvote(?) here

pnmahoney2• 14 years ago

I guess downvote-burying is a pretty good way to stimulate discussion, huh? I don't know if I should interpret it as you agreeing with DHH or not.

atacrawl• 14 years ago

To everyone who thinks DHH and 37signals overreacted to this, keep in mind that the IA/UI paradigm introduced in Basecamp has been aped by many startups in their web apps with nary a whiff of public complaint.

It's one thing to copy the design of a marketing page (which is pretty weak), but to serve assets from that company's servers? Such an action is so idiotic and pathetic, that it's absurd. It's completely inexcusable and deserves to be called out whenever it happens.

earbitscom4• 14 years ago

I've never seen a grown man act the way DHH did. Call it out, but do it with some professionalism.

ahoyhere10• 14 years ago

You've never seen a grown man use strong language or call somebody a fucking something-something? Guess you've never read Mark Twain, or watched George Carlin, or any comic, ever, except maybe that guy from Full House who specializes in "clean comedy." Or been to a bar. Or watched a sports game. Or hung out with people who are passionate.

Please, can the disingenuous hyperbole. Nobody is buying it.

Most importantly, not everyone has to buy into your idea of "professionalism." Thank god.

gfodor• 14 years ago

Why? Who gives a shit, other than people who would rather talk about "professionalism" rather than, oh I don't know, actual Things That Are Happening?

trotsky• 14 years ago

I wonder how the community reconciles so many posters being up in arms about this event while frequently promoting stories from torrent freak and generally dismissing the belief that much harm comes from copyright infringement. Is it different when someone you know or respect is the injured party?

spullara• 14 years ago

I think people find it more offensive if 1) you take credit for the work and 2) you make money by using it. But you're right, there must be some internal mental model that allows them to be so obviously different.

mikeash• 14 years ago

Yes, precisely. One case is copyright infringement for personal use, one is copyright infringement and misattribution for commercial use. Compare e.g. Bob downloading "The Dark Knight" to watch it versus Bob selling copies of "The Dark Bob, by Bob" which is actually just TDK with a different label slapped on it. I think a lot of people would find the latter to be much more wrong.

code177• 14 years ago

Whilst 37signals does use this bit of creative IP to generate revenue, the page itself isn't actually the product - so copying it creates neither a reduced demand for the page itself or 37signals' services, nor does it impact their bottom-line in any obvious way (curebit and 37signals aren't in the same product-space).

Although the page itself is defensible IP for 37signals, the chances of them taking legal action on it (see above) is so remotely slim that it puts this whole thing into the realm of creative and professional courtesy rather than copyright infringement.

It's more like a stranger coming into the town saloon, getting drunk, and spilling his beer on the local bad-ass.

humbyvaldes• 14 years ago

Startup Metrics for Pirates: AARRR! and steal peoples shit lol

soapdog• 14 years ago

Anyone has a friendly link to a summary of what happened?

gumbo3• 14 years ago

I stumble upon stolen graphics so much time, when a company is not able to create an original landing page, how one can expect that company to create something more complex. This is not to say curebit won't succeed, but as one said "we are in a hard world" and people are looking where you succeed but also where you fail. I hope this mistake will be the last one until the go bigger otherwise i'm afraid the won't be forgiven one more time.

gumbo3• 14 years ago

I think DHH did it the wrong way, it is such an arrogant reaction. it is not like Curebit is a concurrent or something like that so they could have just sent an email asking remove the elements.

That's been said, but if this embarrassing event help someone to never ever steal elements again then it's is a goo thing.

gumbo3• 14 years ago

Just went through the whole thread on twitter, and now i see that it is #curebit that tried to dig their own grave.

Nevertheless let learn the lessons and move forward, inspire don't steal.

anon22342• 14 years ago

Can someone explain why this is such a big deal? Genuinely curious. It seems the HN hivemind has a much stronger response to someone stealing a web designer's work vs, say stealing a Hollywood studio's work and hiding behind DMCA safe harbor.

DarkShikari• 14 years ago

Because they have higher standards for themselves (HN startups) than for movie pirates?

eduardordm• 14 years ago

Learned:

- Some people will actually steal your CHECK icons

- Over-bashing a stealer will not make you look nice

- Immediatism never seem to work on your side

crikli• 14 years ago

Humility on either side would have gone a long way.

Hominem• 14 years ago

I almost feel bad for these guys but I understand why DHH was so pissed. Getting inspiration or even straight up stealing the HTLM and CSS is one thing, but referencing assets on 37signals servers is beyond the pale as 37signals is paying money to serve those assets.

This happened to a company I worked for, a company not only ganked our website but used pictures of our offices and staff we had on our about us page!

jakejake2• 14 years ago

I've had this happen and they were actually using a sizable amount of bandwidth.

The great thing about it, though, is that you can move your originals and change the hot linked images to something else. Like a message to their customers, gross pictures, etc. it can be a hilarious opportunity to mess with somebody who is stealing your stuff!

joshontheweb• 14 years ago

Inexcusable but not a bad move in the end. This will all settle and be forgotten except that everyone will remember their name. Unethical and unwitting but a good publicity stunt nonetheless.

ddw• 14 years ago

Copying someone's layout, jacking a logo and mentioning A/B testing are seriously all it takes to get millions of funding???

I'm on the next flight out to the Valley!

jetsnoc• 14 years ago

I think @dhh wasted a great opportunity to be a leader and a mentor. I think he should have asked allengrant to rise to the occasion. Instead he was incredibly rude and shared his contempt publicly!

It all seems so incongruent to me. On one side of the coin, 37s wants to share their results openly but on the other using the idea they shared makes him "a fucking scumbag." I understand there is a copyright violation involved. However, I suspected 37s would have been more... tactful.

Unfortunately, this is the second time 37signals has disappointed me in the last few weeks. As a customer, they violated my sense of privacy and almost as worse one of their partners is a total hot-head. Personally, and this is only my opinion based on no fact...In the back of my mind I am thinking "what would a hot-head that does not respect my companies privacy do with our information?!" To think I used to look up to them!

denysonique• 14 years ago

Lean startup

eightysteele• 14 years ago

Minor nit, but what stuck me most about the apology was that Allan didn't include a link to http://37signals.com.

mattaus• 14 years ago

Worst apology ever!

jaimoepelle• 14 years ago

Has anyone heard from 37? Curebit is good tech that works, they have been more than fair in the few dealings I have had the privilege to work with them on. They, like most companies constantly change... how many logos did Google have. Rather than an indictment on them I see it as on the community. More help, more share, less complaining about things that really don't matter. In today's world product matters, template design is secondary to the many things they are doing daily to make a business. and 37 is the one company that goes out of their way to share what works and encourages startups to use their advice. So curebit made yet another change to their homepage...who cares save the few who tear down cause they cant build up. Allan, u created a great product, u made ur clients more money and are positioning yourself to lead a great new company. Commended u are, and your success will have nothing to do with the design of your homepage....if it were that easy.

provokeme• 14 years ago

Curebit who? Not anymore. Well played.

ssharp• 14 years ago

It's nice that they apologized, but aside from the ethics behind what they did, I think I'd be extremely weary of using Curebit. If they are lazy enough to directly copy HTML/CSS and not even go through the bother of copying images to their own server, where else are they cutting corners?

Apology to 37signals

Related Stories