I'm Pirating the Next Version of Windows

http://littlebitofcode.com/2012/01/18/im-pirating-the-next-version-of-windows

by jcnnghm • 15 years ago

341 251 15 years ago

littlebitofcode.com

valverde• 15 years ago

"Why do pirates have a better experience than customers?"

This pretty much sums it up. I couldn't agree more.

majorlazer• 15 years ago

In many cases, like downloading movies, I agree. But with Windows, I couldn't disagree more. I used to pirate every version of Windows I owned, back in the days of Windows 98 and up to Windows XP it was a breeze. Starting around Windows XP SP3, it got a bit more difficult. It was easy to pirate, but after a few weeks/months of use, you get the Genuine Advantage warning. With Windows 7, it is even worse. So I decided to purchase my first legitimate copy of Windows. I haven't looked back. It is so much easier and I don't waste my time re-cracking my Windows installation every month. It is well worth the price. Since then I have also acquired a legitimate version of Office 2010, even though I got it heavily discounted for students, back in the Windows XP days, I would have laughed at the thought of buying $100+ software.

And anytime I upgrade hardware or even want to move my install to another computer, the activation is so fast and easy. I don't see how anyone could make the claim that pirating Windows is easier than installing a legitimate copy.

reidmain3• 15 years ago

I can think of a bunch of reasons why people make the claim seeing as how the article is about that.

1) You will always have an outdated installation disc so whenever you want to do a install you're stuck with hours of system updates.

2) Losing your install disc means your SOL.

3) The activation process is not always painless. Whenever you have to call their activation line you are wasting time.

Karunamon16• 15 years ago

For the majority of people, windows activation and windows genuine "advantage" works exactly as advertised.

However, when you get on the wrong side of it, it is a pain in the ass of Lovecraftian proportions. I don't know if it's my luck, choice in hardware, or what, but I've had perfectly valid (retail!) keys start throwing WGA errors after working fine for a few months. After spending literally hours on the phone with someone who speaks broken english, I took my crippled XP install (this was back in the pre service-pack 2 days where failing activation meant you got locked out after a few minutes), went to a torrent site, and downloaded an activator.

2 hours (spent on the phone in a fruitless endeavor with the best of Indian tech support) and 5 minutes (spent downloading and running a crack) later, I finally was able to use my bought and paid for software.

After that, I pulled down an ISO with the service packs and cracks and other goodies slipstreamed in (XP Ultimate Edition by Johnny, still exists out there somewhere), burned it to a disc, and haven't used "legitimate" channels since.

Microsoft does not have my permission to use my CPU cycles and power to inflate their antipiracy metrics.

xtracto2• 15 years ago

Nope, in windows 7 activating via pirate methods is still easier than activating via normal methods. The pirate, illegal method of activating involves downloading a program, 1 double click (to open said program) and 1 click (to run the activation).

I wont say which program is it because I do not condone piracy, but it is widespread in the internet.

I agree that Microsoft should remove all anti-piracy stuff in their products. It only makes their products more expensive.

reidmain3• 15 years ago

This is the scenario with most mediums (TV, movies, etc).

Video games and music appear to be the only ones who have solved this with solutions like Steam, Good old Games, iTunes, Amazon Music.

Netflix, and the like, are a good step forward but they still suffer from lack of content which leads people right back to pirating.

_sh• 15 years ago

It's only a 'better experience' if they're not caught.

Bank robbers have a 'better experience' of a bank if they're not caught too.

cgoddard5• 15 years ago

Why are customers being made to jump through hoops that do practically nothing to deter actual infringement?

jiggy20113• 15 years ago

I don't use pirated versions of Windows so I don't know the answer to this but I would assume it's a bad idea because:

Your trusting a .ISO image from a random website, how do you know there is not time bombed malware pre-installed?

Do you still have access to Windows update? If so for how long, I assume it can't be difficult for Microsoft to figure out who is using it illegitimately since some versions must be using either the same keys or keys that have never been issued to a copy of Windows that they have sold?

davidcollantes2• 15 years ago

[...]

"You're trusting..."

[...]

I agree with that line, correction added. :-)

davidcollantes2• 15 years ago

To the two minuses (and the potential others): love you too. :-)

w1ntermute• 15 years ago

> Your trusting a .ISO image from a random website, how do you know there is not time bombed malware pre-installed?

You don't have to use torrents. You can get a direct download of vanilla Windows 7 ISO's hosted by Microsoft: http://www.mydigitallife.info/official-windows-7-sp1-iso-fro...

> Do you still have access to Windows update? If so for how long, I assume it can't be difficult for Microsoft to figure out who is using it illegitimately since some versions must be using either the same keys or keys that have never been issued to a copy of Windows that they have sold?

Nope, there's a workaround built into Windows because the OEMs strongarmed MS into adding it. You can get a piece of software called the Windows Loader that will activate Windows using this workaround with just one click and a reboot: http://forums.mydigitallife.info/threads/24901-Windows-Loade...

jiggy20113• 15 years ago

Ok, so you can activate it but what happens if MS decides at some point to block your updates or track you.

I assume they keep a record everytime they issue a license either to an OEM or wholesaler etc and if your using a keygen they could simply check their database and find that such a key was never issued.

If you use a key that was already registered to someone else then surely they know because your computer name/username or a hash of your hardware config (I assume this info is sent to windows update) will be different.

kermitthehermit2• 15 years ago

No, not really. They can check the hashes against those of official ISOs from M$, thus making sure they don't come with extra "features".

As for updates, they can get those too. However, MS might be reading their mail and all they type if they use a "cracked" version of windows without an original serial number.

However, his point is 100% valid. The need for serials / activations is giving people enough reasons to skip buying Windows and pirate it or simply install Linux.

If Windows would've costed 50 USD everywhere and had a milder "security" system, they'd be selling at least 5-10 times more copies.

Some countries have all sorts of big and small taxes which drive the prices of the windows licenses up by 10-40% and some shops also add their own profit margins. Having them be so expensive in the first place doesn't help at all.

wmf• 15 years ago

MS publishes MD5s of the ISOs so you can know that you're pirating the right thing. If you pirate it the right way you also get updates.

joebadmo3• 15 years ago

While I'm entirely sympathetic to the author's DRM plight, buying the software and getting the pirate's cleaner experience are not mutually exclusive. If you want the best experience and a clean conscience (I'm assuming here you think piracy is wrong, since you've bought so many other copies of MS software), buy the software, then install a pirated a copy.

I usually do this with new PCs that have Windows pre-installed, so I don't have to deal with crapware.

jiggy20113• 15 years ago

Would this still be legal though? You are still using an unlicensed copy regardless of whether or not you happen to additionally own another copy. For all they know you might install your licensed copy on another computer later and not remove your unlicensed one.

joebadmo3• 15 years ago

I have no idea whether it's technically legal, actually. But I'm working off two premises: 1. The author doesn't care about legality, since he's finally resorting to piracy anyway. 2. The author would like to compensate MS for the use of a Windows license. If those are true, then buying a copy but actually using a pirate copy does what the author wants.

mbreese2• 15 years ago

I think what they are saying is that while it may not be legal, it is at least ethical -- so long as you've paid for as many copies as you are using.

Natsu• 15 years ago

IANAL, so talk to one if this information is of more than theoretical interest to you, but the Psystar case makes me believe it would not be legal. Courts seem to take a copy-centric view of things, so an illegal copy can only make more legal copies and a legal copy can only come from a legal copy.

So the pirate version would always be pirated in the judge's eyes, even if you had paid for a license for a legit copy as well. They won't let you use the legal license you acquired to cover a pirate copy. Or something like that, anyhow. There are always lots of funny little details that can make a big difference when dealing with law.

kermitthehermit2• 15 years ago

If you've bought a Windows 7 kit and your DVD got damaged, you could copy a friend's disc or use one downloaded from work off technet / software assurance / msdn.

The point is that it's OK from a legal point of view, as long as you use your original serial number for the same windows edition.

I 'swapped' discs back when Windows 7 SP1 came out. I got the update off SA and the updated ISOs as well.

Should you have to prove you actually bought a license of that OS, you should have

a) the invoice & warranty papers of the computer it came preinstalled on and being used on - if preinstalled; possibly the restore disc as well if there is one b) the invoice, the original (damaged or not) disc and the box of the original windows kit - if bought separately as a windows install kit

Those are required to prove that you're the rightful owner of that Windows kit. I don't know if you can resell a PC with Windows on it.

Microsoft is very silly to make people jump through so many hoops. Especially when the pirates enjoy a better service.

Also, they should offer downloads to people who got the OS preinstalled on their machines. Apple is giving people this serice under the form of network restore since 10.7.

joshAg• 15 years ago

in the US? almost certainly not, just like how ripping your own dvd's is technically illegal under the dmca.

also, based on my own experience, you can activate windows 7 on multiple computers with the same key just fine (got 1 key through msdnaa, wanted to get another to replace my academic home premium because i needed/wanted the backup functionality and xp mode. but when it took my schools msdnaa admin more than a week to respond, i just used the key i already had. at some point i'm sure i'll switch over to the new key that i eventually i got, but i don't see a reason to do that until windows starts hassling me).

trotsky5• 15 years ago

Whether strictly legal or not it's very unlikely to cause any complaints. For instance this would pass a BSA audit with flying colors as all they'll be interested in is installed_copies < licensed_copies.

Though it's very likely to be a very bad idea anyway. As has been pointed out elsewhere a large majority of such activation disabled software is loaded with rootkits and other malware.

jemka• 15 years ago

I think that misses the point. The author wants MS to change and is attempting to get their attention via this post. Whether or not the author will actually pirate the software is moot.

joebadmo3• 15 years ago

Ah, that's a fair point. The post is, in the end, imploring MS to change. And I suppose part of that point is the economic one that MS is losing sales because of this. Adding the premise that you want to send an economic message to MS as well, and assuming that the author needs Windows, it doesn't seem like there's a good way to satisfy all of the requirements. Still seems like the closest thing would be to buy a copy, install a pirated version, write a blog post like this one, and threaten not to upgrade or to switch to a competitor.

jcnnghm7• 15 years ago

This. This is exactly the point. It is a really safe bet that in a few years I'll be sitting at the telephone activation screen after paying for another version of Windows and upgrading a motherboard, cursing as I enter the sixth block of digits into the IVR for the forth time. And that is bullshit.

rickyc091• 15 years ago

"Buy the software, then install a pirated a copy."

Unethical, probably, but sometimes that solution is easier than dealing with MSFT's support. A friend of mine purchased a copy of MSFT Office 2011, but it wouldn't work. He called the support several times and they couldn't offer him a solution so he finally gave up and decided to just pirate it. Ten minutes later he had a working copy of office 2011 on his machine.

Kliment• 15 years ago

Why unethical? I don't think it's unethical at all. Not sure if it's an EULA violation, but it's probably legal, and certainly ethical.

driverdan• 15 years ago

This is exactly what I do and advocate.

I own an XP Pro license and bought the upgrade edition of 7 Ultimate. Reformatting would require installing XP, upgrading to the latest service pack, then "upgrading" to 7. Giant PITA.

cosmez• 15 years ago

that and Windows its 50 times the minimum wage here in mexico.

noss• 15 years ago

I understand the resentment, but the right course of action must surely be to not upgrade. Instead go with an alternative, such as Mac OS or Linux.

jcnnghm7• 15 years ago

OS X is actually my primary operating system. There is some software I still need Windows for though, like Photoshop and Quickbooks Enterprise. I guess I could upgrade that software, but I am not paying thousands for new features I won't use. I had to reactivate because Bootcamp is a pain in the ass, so I removed the partition, installed VirtualBox, and installed on that. It activated fine, and has deactivated itself twice now, necessitating phone calls each time. I have probably been through this process 20 times now, with family computers, Windows XP reinstalls, and the like.

ROFISH• 15 years ago

At least for Parallels, if you read the instructions, it says the first time you start up Windows Boot Camp in the VM, do not activate until it has fully installed Parallel Tools and it's drivers. Something in those drivers, which I presume is legal, prevents the infinite activation loop.

squidsoup• 15 years ago

In an effort to expedite your transition away from Windows entirely, may I suggest Pixelmator (http://www.pixelmator.com/) as a Photoshop alternative? It is a pleasure to use and has all of the core features of PS (compositing layers, tools etc).

ryandvm2• 15 years ago

Agreed. You can't just say, "your product is too *, I'm stealing it."

Well, I guess you can, but you're stretching your ethical credibility.

Karunamon16• 15 years ago

Unless he took a physical copy off of a shelf somewhere, he didn't steal anything. Pirated, ripped, copied, used without paying for, there are about 20 possible verbs to describe the act of using software without purchasing a license.

Stealing is not one of them.

I know I'm beating this horse fairly hard, but it's something that people need to be aware of.

powertower3• 15 years ago

If you're activating MS products by entering "100-digit" activation keys into your telephone, you're already doing something wrong...

Or are a complete edge/outliner case.

jcnnghm7• 15 years ago

Says the guy that doesn't have any family members that persistently fubar their systems, necessitating enough reinstalls to trip the activation limit.

powertower3• 15 years ago

If your family members are destroying the OS, the best solution is to either run in a VM which is set to not persist changes (via VMWare or the free options), or to boot from a VHD file for your other members (keep a clean and activated copy that you can revert to).

There are many options to solve this issue (ex: the native VHD boot, VirtualPC, HyperV).

Telling Microsoft to remove activation is a knee-jerk reaction that helps no one.

You can even run Linux as the Host OS.

I write and sell software, and activation is absolutely critical and responsible for at least half my revenue.

wavephorm2• 15 years ago

I hit the activation limit on my family pack (3 copies) and was never given any instructions on what to do. My system would go black and eventually become unusable. Instead of telling me how to reactivate the copies I bought, Microsoft puts up a message on how to purchase another new copy of Windows.

I'm done with this company now. I bought a Mac, and I'm not coming back.

gm6• 15 years ago

Just curious: What activation key is "100" digits long? I've never run into such a one from MS.

The really long activation keys I've run into are not from MS and are ones you can cut/paste (ie, not the ones used to install the OS fresh).

funkah• 15 years ago

Right, the customer is the one in the wrong here, not the company requiring him to jump through these hoops.

sp3323• 15 years ago

I did this with WinXP about a dozen times. 11 years is much too long for the default 3-activation limit.

sp3323• 15 years ago

Why can't I just enter my product key and download an updated ISO with slipstreamed service packs?

This is especially odd, since you can do exactly that with a one-year TechNet subscription. https://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/subscriptions/buy/hh4429... So it's not like they don't have the infrastructure ready.

eli• 15 years ago

I wouldn't recommend you try this at your startup. Some day, a potential investor or partner is going to audit your licenses and it'll be pretty embarrassing if you're way out of compliance.

frankwiles• 15 years ago

Might seem like I just hate MS, but honestly I would be just as upset as a potential investor or partner that they were running Windows in the first place. Licensed or not. Unless of course your startup was focused somehow on Windows development, users, etc. where it would obviously be necessary.

Startups are hard enough as it is, no need to make them harder.

gm6• 15 years ago

Hmm, if you have an investor that dismisses a platform summarily because of his own biases, then the company is better off without that investor.

The investor should ask "and why are you using that platform?" and then make an evaluation based on the answer. Anything less and you have a pretty bad investor. Best to keep away from such people.

memnips• 15 years ago

Microsoft Bizspark (http://www.microsoft.com/bizspark/) gives startups that are less than 3 years old and earn less than $1M in annual revenue free MSDN Ultimate access.

That means free access to all of MS software. It's actually a really amazing program.

csomar• 15 years ago

Huh, seriously? I purchased a laptop with a genuine Windows 7 version because of this particular issue. I'll spend weeks to find a relatively good Windows copy.

The average seeded copy of Windows on the pirate bay or the likes is crappy. Cracks sometimes doesn't work. Sometimes the copy comes with a load of crappy software. Sometimes the cracker changes the Windows theme (not sure why he is doing so). And sometimes everything goes smooth until some day I get a problem because my version is not genuine.

I don't install my OS on a daily basis. My average Windows OS install keep up with me for 3-5 years. I wouldn't be bothered to spend some time activating the software. So far, the activations for my MS products was easy, fast and simple.

gm6• 15 years ago

True. There comes a point where the time investment is more expensive than just buying a legal copy and installing it. And activating it.

I've never had as hard a time activating stuff at the OP, though. When I buy a new machine I always order the restore disks (why do Mfg's think it's ok to not include these and charge customers for obtaining them?), and I've yet to run into restore disks that automatically install the crapware that came on the hard disk.

re_todd• 15 years ago

I recently purchased a laptop with Windows 7 at a national chain, and there is no CD. If I set up a dual boot, which I normally do, I'll be forced to get a pirated version. There is supposedly a way to reinstall from a hidden drive or partition, but that would take over the entire drive. I always wanted to be legit, but I'm not going to pay again for something that I legally already have.

melling2• 15 years ago

If you don't like their product or policies, don't use it. If you use it then you should pay for it. Use Linux, a BSD Unix, or a Mac. People who pirate Microsoft products don't really hurt Microsoft, they hurt the rest of the competition.

polemic• 15 years ago

Don't get me wrong, Microsoft isn't helping themselves with this, but @melling has it on the head.

In the current climate, it's this kind of blog post that undoes a lot of the good work people are doing around protesting SOPA/PIPA. For those with a very simple view of copyright, saying you're going to 'steal Microsoft's IP' because you've been inconvenienced is just evidence that Something Must Be Done and the proposed law is a Good Thing.

jarrett3• 15 years ago

Certain applications that professionals need are only available on Windows. Most games are as well. Even for software with Mac/*nix versions, a person may have quite a bit of money tied up in Windows-only licenses.

I'm not commenting on whether pirating Windows is ethical. I'm just pointing out that sometimes you'll have to ditch a lot of software to ditch Windows.

Groxx• 15 years ago

You're just reinforcing their argument. By not using the competition, you're ensuring the market for those products on the competition's OS doesn't exist. It's actively strengthening Microsoft's hold on the markets you frequent.

mbq• 15 years ago

Quite a lot windows-only software works with Wine, .net stuff runs on Mono and there is still ReactOS -- open source OS written from scratch, binary compatible with Windows.

halostatue• 15 years ago

I faced that problem (I had some money in Windows-only licenses). I still cut the cord and moved to the Mac.

If I find it necessary to move from the Mac to something else, as much as I hate it I will cut the cord and not worry about the software investments that I have made.

If you have an application that only works on Windows, then you need to either (a) deal with the Microsoft Tax and all that implies or (b) yell at your software vendor and tell them you want alternative platform support.

nate_meurer2• 15 years ago

Microsoft has tried their damndest to ensure that you must buy their OS in order to use a computer. They've done this directly using the Windows Tax, and indirectly with over two decades of anti-competitive business practices, some merely shady and others outright illegal.

"If you don't like it, then don't use it" is pretty useless advice in this situation.

morsch2• 15 years ago

And the amazing thing is that they managed to do it again for Android. Except this time Apple is in a better spot than they were with PC operating systems.

fierarul• 15 years ago

Correct! Even pirating Microsoft helps Microsoft.

The worst thing for Microsoft would be a strict enforcement of copyright: people would be running to alternatives.

nextparadigms2• 15 years ago

I believe this is the main reason Microsoft never really went about pirates in China. Just imagine if they were fighting it so hard, that most Chinese would use Linux now, which could've caused other users in other countries to use it, too. That would pretty much mean Windows would have only 50% market share, perhaps less. I mean, I'm sure a big chunk of that 90% market share they have now is with pirated licenses.

kmm• 15 years ago

I don't agree. This is only a possibility for some people. I gave up on Windows about five years ago and have been a happy Linux user since. I don't have any pirated software at all on my system.

But most people aren't ready or capable of learning a whole new operating system they have to install and manage themselves (unless Linux comes preinstalled on the computer). And most importantly, almost everyone uses certain software for which there is no equivalent on other OSes.

Now consider a certain user who is completely fed up with the way Microsoft has been (mis)treating their paying customers and doesn't want to support this behaviour with his money anymore. If you're not opposed to piracy "on principle", which is fine but ends all discussion before it can even start, then pirating Windows seems like a possible (yet illegal) solution.

gurkendoktor4• 15 years ago

My family got by for a long time on a legal XP + MS Works. They then had to pirate the real MS Office because teachers at school only accept PPT files, and OpenOffice's export was too broken.

I buy all my software but I still can't really blame them.

darshan• 15 years ago

If you don't like their product or policies, don't use it. If you use it then you should pay for it.

This strikes me as a valid ethical position, though I happen to think things are more complicated than that.

People who pirate Microsoft products don't really hurt Microsoft, they hurt the rest of the competition.

This, on the other hand, doesn't make sense. You seem to be assuming that the invariant is that the user will not be paying Microsoft. And that might be true for you. If you're not going to be sending any money to MS no matter what, then yes, using MS products helps them somewhat.

For the author of the article, however, the invariant is that he will be using MS products. Since he's going to be using their products in any case, when he is fed up with their policies and decides to pirate instead of purchase until they get fixed, of course this hurts them.

If you want to argue that nothing is invariant, and that the best way to hurt MS is to both stop purchasing and stop using, well, of course that's true, but it's not relevant. What the author is talking about is simply stopping paying for something until it gets fixed; whether he still uses it or not is of very minor importance to MS next to whether or not he pays for it. His goal isn't to destroy MS or make them irrelevant; on the contrary, he just wants a better customer experience.

joesb• 15 years ago

> whether he still uses it or not is of very minor importance to MS next to whether or not he pays for it.

What's more important than whether he pays for it is whether everybody else will still pay for it.

If everyone around you use Windows, you probably have to still use Windows in order to be able to collaborate with them. And you don't even have to think about open standard.

The more people around you use other OS, the more you are likely to think about using platform-independent technology. Then the more likely you are to be able to move to other platform since there are less and less fraction of people holding you on Windows.

The author using Windows gives everyone around him the inertia of moving to other platform. He is part of the reason why most people knows how to use only Windows.

And then when big company wants to buy a platform they will chose Windows because most people use it. And big company will pay. And big company will buy more expensive software and extra support.

eps• 15 years ago

What if their product came preinstalled on a laptop and yet every few weeks it would say that I am a victim of a counterfeit software, demand that I would re-download some validation app, refuse to install it, demand a reboot and then calm down for another few weeks.

Can I pirate a copy, because it is getting damn ridiculous. What do you say?

gurkendoktor4• 15 years ago

It's the same with Photoshop. If Photoshop had perfect DRM (or if users would selflessly follow EULAs), then I am sure we wouldn't be stuck with Adobe's terrible monopoly and insulting usability.

I see why it won't happen: Many pirates can't wait until a 99% feature-compatible competitor emerges. People who don't want to buy Windows or Photoshop can also not just throw money in a Kickstarter pot instead (imagine how much $$$ that would be?!) - I can't see a good competitor emerging without iterative market forces.

A tragedy - I would love to work full-time on a killer product pitted against either of them, but I just can't see how it fits into the scheme of the market. :(

Deestan• 15 years ago

> A tragedy - I would love to work full-time on a killer product pitted against either of them, but I just can't see how it fits into the scheme of the market. :(

Gimp would be a good competitor to Photoshop if it could just get a ton of focus on usability. If you want to "fight" Photoshop, that would be a good place to help out.

http://www.gimp.org/

http://www.gimp.org/develop/

sciurus• 15 years ago

If you already have a windows license but lost your installation media, you can download it without resorting to piracy. The link below has the URLs for the retail ISOs hosted by Amazon.

http://www.mydigitallife.info/windows-7-iso-x86-and-x64-offi...

gm6• 15 years ago

Lost installation media not at all the point of the post. Read it first.

nailer2• 15 years ago

Microsoft Store officially tells you that your download time has expired after you purchase a Windows license, and wish to re-download / re-install more than 3 months after your purchase.

The official solution is to buy an additional copy of the Windows license which will provide you with a new download URL.

I knows this because I complained to the @microsoftstore twitter account: after purchasing 2 copies of Windows (the crapware-loaded OEM version, the clean one from MS store) I had no intention of purchasing a third.

For some reason they simply couldn't allow me a second download, and sent me a physical disc, which arrived about 6 weeks later, by which time a pirated Windows 7 was working fine.

However

fryguy• 15 years ago

I've never had any problems with the copy of windows 7 I bought from the microsoft online store. I've had to redownload it two or three times now, and it's always been there (although the page is near impossible to find). I had a screenshot of the page, but imgur is down today so I can't link it.

waffle_ss• 15 years ago

Seems like a pirated .iso would be a great place to deliver malicious code to Ring 0, hiding itself from the kernel and becoming essentially impossible to detect from the infected OS itself. I'm sure botnet creators are already well aware of this.

huggyface• 15 years ago

This is what I marvel at when I read such (poorly justified) piracy screeds.

Are people insane?

I might not have ultimate faith in Microsoft, but comparatively I have zero faith (and a lot of suspicion) of what are essentially bands of thieves among piracy groups.

I engaged in casual piracy when I was a teen out of necessity, though I never felt the need to invent justifications. In my adult life, though...pirating executables is the domain of the naive or the ridiculously trustworthy.

Cushman• 15 years ago

Eh.

If anything, the scene is demonstration that a completely open, self-regulated market can function in at least some sense. Maybe one group doesn't have any strong disincentive to posting a corrupted release, but other groups have a strong incentive to discredit them, and reputation is valuable (as much as anything can be in a free economy). There is a fairly effective web of trust.

You can't be sure, of course, but then I can't be sure that my "legal" software won't install a rootkit behind my back either-- or if I am, it's because I'm going on the word of criminals who are trying to redistribute it.

Karunamon16• 15 years ago

I've got a lot more faith in a torrent uploaded by a person with lots of other torrents (who has no motive but reputation and altruism), with lots of seeders than I do in a corporation who has a clear and present motive to make me miserable.

And somehow, I've never been infected by this. It's my conclusion that, much like the *AA groups nonsense comparisons of piracy to theft, the security threats are overstated by companies in an attempt to scare people straight.

StavrosK• 15 years ago

So, basically, "pirated isos might have rootkits"?

marvin• 15 years ago

This is ingenious, or else I am just really dense; I had never thought of this. I'm assuming that it wouldn't be trivial to write such a hack, but if you were able to, it would be a self-distributing botnet hack. You wouldn't be able to get the same reach the botnets that use exploits do, but you would remain pretty much indetectable. Thanks for sharing.

toyg• 15 years ago

An original .iso would be a great place to deliver keylogging software and backdoors for law enforcement and international espionage purposes. I'm sure law enforcement agencies are already well aware of this.

Not trolling: incentives and processes are basically the same for any entity distributing precompiled binaries, from MS to Symantec to Skype to Apple to Canonical. They don't do it because of the potential for huge reputation hits... exactly like most people in "the scene".

nsxwolf• 15 years ago

Pirating makes sense when the pirates end up providing a superior product that the publisher won't provide at any price.

This was true for video games, where the copy protection schemes often resulted in a bad experience for paying customers.

But for an OS, having to enter a product key once doesn't seem to harm the experience as much as possibly getting a rooted kernel would.

I think, in general, there aren't a lot of good reasons for grown-ups to not pay for the commercial software they want to use.

reidmain3• 15 years ago

One of the greatest features of the Mac App Store is the ability to download the latest version of OS X Lion and then make a bootable image of it.

I upgraded from Snow Leopard to Lion the day it came out but then had to do a clean install a couple of months later.

Instead of using my out-of-date installer I downloaded the latest version of Lion and did a clean install. No waiting hours fro system updates because my install medium was old.

jsz0• 15 years ago

With newer machines (2011 MBA, Mini, maybe the iMac too?) you can even start the OS install straight from the boot loader. It basically net boots the Lion Recovery image and then proceeds with downloading/installing the OS. Pretty slick.

paulhauggis• 15 years ago

The problem is that it will never be enough. Even if Microsoft gave you everything to you exact specification and only charged $20/license, there would still be a group of people trying to defend piracy.

Just look at the Android/Iphone app market. 99 cent apps are still not convenient or cheap enough for many users, so they pirate it.

This is why I feel that all of these excuses are bullshit.

masklinn• 15 years ago

> there would still be a group of people trying to defend piracy.

Of course, just as you'll always find DRM apologists who find Ubisoft's insanity still isn't enough. That's not really a segment of the population worth discussing with though, since they won't buy either way (either because they don't want to, or because they just don't have the money, I was once that impoverished student).

What you can rely on are numbers and the results of those who thought convenience was a major reason[0] for piracy and tried to fix it. And what do you find out? That Steam and iTunes turn out to make money. Who'd have thought?

> This is why I feel that all of these excuses are bullshit.

Oh, bad apples are sufficient to dismiss out of hand anything that comes even remotely close to something they could say?

Well I guess you can trivially be dismissed as well, then.

[0] preempting your strawman, I did not write "the only reason".

RickHull• 15 years ago

> The problem is that it will never be enough.

Eh, it will never be enough for 100% of the users, sure -- there will always be some percentage of pure leeches. But this guy seems pretty reasonable. Enough for him seems like a good threshold for generating revenue from your userbase.

MatthewB6• 15 years ago

These are great points and a good portion of piraters do so for these exact reasons. There are always going to be people who steal content/apps instead of paying for them but I am sure more than a few people pirate purely because it is a better user experience than what is currently offered.

TV shows are a great example. I cut my cable about a year ago and haven't looked back since. I refuse to pay a premium for channels packaged together that I never watch.

Currently, I use a combination of Netflix, Hulu Plus, Amazon Prime, Apple TV, and Zune Marketplace to fill my content needs. They provide a great user experience but the pricing structure/availability is lacking. Most shows available on Prime, Apple Tv, Zune are only available for purchase. What if I don't want to purchase them? Why can't I rent TV shows just like I rent movies? I have never been one to purchase and own content since I usually don't watch things more than once. I pay to rent movies all the time from Apple TV and Zune via Xbox.

Hulu Plus is great, but they have a fraction of the content I would like to watch. Basically, there's not a perfect solution yet but I refuse to go back to cable. Here's what I would like to see:

1. Charge me per view, don't sell me the content to own.

2. If the margin is too thin for the rental model, throw an ad in there...I won't mind. (Hulu plus does this)

3. Let the content producers sell their content directly to me to increase margin. This can be done by the content producers creating apps for Xbox, Roku, etc.

4. Make all previous seasons of shows available to me for rental to increase revenue.

5. Use these awesome new technologies to create deeper experiences/interactions with the content, which will open up new revenue streams.

coob• 15 years ago

Apple tried rental of TV shows. They shuttered it:

http://allthingsd.com/20110826/apple-pulls-the-plug-on-tv-re...

mattmanser• 15 years ago

But look at the price point. Originally $1.99 per episode to just rent it. Even $0.99 sounds a lot to me.

That's almost $50 for an entire series. What's the average amount of time someone would spend watching TV series per night? An episode of this, an episode of that, 3 or 4 times a week. Suddenly you're spending vastly more than cable.

That's more than a modern box set will cost you, e.g. Boardwalk Empire, just released is selling for $40 on Amazon.

Yet they spent $5million per episode, that's a lot of views to just break even, plus the server hosting costs and vendor marketplace cut to make.

The whole thing is overly complex, per item rental is too complicated, a fractured marketplace makes subscriptions poor, the time drip model that studios and channels used to use is dying, but they won't let it go.

I think it'll be 5 to 10 years before we finally see a decent resolution to this where actually paying is less hassle than piracy.

MatthewB6• 15 years ago

Yes, I do remember when they shuttered TV show rentals. The only reason they gave is that users preferred to buy TV shows. I find that hard to believe although I could be wrong. Charging people $1.99/$2.99 to purchase an episode of a show means $20-$30 for a season (sometimes more). It makes more sense to just pay for cable at those prices, which I refuse to do.

MoreTuple• 15 years ago

In response to #1 If I'm paying you to watch it, there better not be any commercials ;)

click170• 15 years ago

I think the OP meant that there should be a 'buy' option with no commercials and unlimited viewings, and a rent option possibly with commercials and a limited number of viewings.

Karunamon16• 15 years ago

Minor niggle, but please stop misusing "steal". We need to get that meme killed.

MatthewB6• 15 years ago

What do you call it?

xist2• 15 years ago

it's called "identity theft" when someone does it to your identity though :P

Your SSN and details are all intellectual property too!

demigod2• 15 years ago

You cant be blind to this, Piracy is different from stealing, but it is analogous and so the meme. When you physically steal something from a store, the store faces a loss of value and that is why it is illegal. Information is not valued in the same way as other goods and sometimes the value is lost when a copy is made even though the original is not damaged in any way. Its like the secret treasure map which has the value of the treasure if its a secret and has zero value once its made public and the treasure is long gone.

hendrix• 15 years ago

You wouldn't download a car...

slavak• 15 years ago

When you pirate MP3s, you're downloading COMMUNISM!

http://www.twopotscreamer.com/images/when_you_pirate_mp3s_yo...

soyelmango• 15 years ago

re: 3

Surely one reason for Netflix, Hulu, etc is to aim to provide a single point of access. Without this, you'd have to sign up to an account at HBO, Fox, Universal, Everylabeloutthere, then download each of their apps to get at the content.

That is, until Mr Entrepreneur creates a service that scrapes, aggregates, links to, or otherwise makes it easier to access all these content producers from a single site. The content producers might even decide that hosting, billing, and all that coding takes too much, and outsources it to Mr Entrepreneur. That hosting, billing, and coding costs Mr Entrepreneur, so he'll want a cut to cover costs, and some more to provide a profit incentive. Still, as a single point of access, tempting the producers with the promise of its big user base, the service can negotiate bulk licences…

And so, we're back to where we are now, where you access content through an intermediary, and pay for the convenience.

Capitalism comes in for a lot of criticism, but arbitrage and innovation is one of the things it does well (as long as there is balanced competition and regulation.)

That said, just because that's the way things are done now, that doesn't mean it's right. There is always scope for things to be done better, and for some of us, that ease is provided by torrents and such.

trotsky5• 15 years ago

Windows activation is shockingly easy. Enter your key and when you go online it verifies it. If you're not connected to the internet make a 5 minute phone call. If you don't want to do that, no problem - there is no need to activate for up to 180 days. Really don't want to activate? No problem - it'll just turn your screen black and announce it's unlicensed software.

It seems the author's only significant complaint is that they don't provide him with updated slipstreams to download. It's true - he'd have to make them himself with the free tools they provide. Maybe they should provide public updated slipstreams, but this hardly seems like a valid reason to refuse to pay for the software.

sp3323• 15 years ago

I've tried 3 or 4 times, but I never figured out how to make a slipstream of Win7. It seems more complex than with XP.

dchest• 15 years ago

Online activation works only a certain number of times, and then you'll have to make a call. In my experience, this call took more than 5 minutes, and they asked a few none-of-their-business questions that made me think that I'm asking for their permission to please let me reinstall Windows once again. This was a few years ago with Windows XP, in Russia.

ChiperSoft• 15 years ago

Many other Microsoft products will not install on a copy of Windows that hasn't been activated. This includes all the Live apps and I think Office. I think it also restricts access to Software Update to only critical patches (been a while since I tried without activation).

rjbond3rd• 15 years ago

Yes, and also Windows Security Essentials. A family member has a legit retail copy which failed to activate, and just lives with the degraded experience. Quite a contrast with other OS's.

hrktb2• 15 years ago

No it is not, at least not for every version. I didn't have to use windows for a very long time, and about a month ago I installed a windows XP SP3 in a virtual machine. The grace period ended a few days ago:

  - the automatic activation failed
  - my product key is said to have been pirated
  - the phone support for registration is now fully automated, and just rejects my phone activation.
  - the machine won't load whole subsystems of windows until is activated (you can monkey your way around from the IE instance you can launch from the activation dialog, but your system is not fully functionnal)
  - I am searching for how to get a human to deal with the situation

I might be failing somewhere and this situation is all due to my lack of experience, but I am with a CD of windows in one hand and a hosed install on the other, and nowhere to go from there. This is just one of the worse software experience I ever have in a few years.

trotsky5• 15 years ago

Windows XP launched more than 10 years ago. What I said was true for Vista (5 years old) and 7 (2 years old) and is true for Windows 8 afaik. I'm not sure what your point would be - that you'd pirate Windows 8 because you didn't approve of the ease of use of an activation system they deprecated 5 years ago?

xist2• 15 years ago

It sounds like the problem stems from the 2 things: 1.) the media you installed from was not legit 2.) Windows gives you notices that it needs to be activated, which you ignored.

You won't be able to fix that without reinstalling or using a crack. The phone activation will work but you need to change product key. There is an article of Microsoft support site on how to do that actaully.

However, it's a problem with your XP Media... are you 100% sure that is a legit copy of windows? Where did you get it from?

peteretep• 15 years ago

No, the author's complaint is that he gets a better service as a 'pirate' than as a paying customer, which is backwards.

tgrass• 15 years ago

#7 on the front page of Hacker News. And there's confusion as to why SOPA is being considered by Congress.

twodayslate• 15 years ago

I am buying my next copy of Windows. You can get a copy really cheap now if you look hard enough (less than $100) through MSDNAA or through another student organization. For me, peace of mind is worth the price.

cgoddard5• 15 years ago

The discount is a nice thing for students, but there are plenty of non-students in the US and especially other parts of the world where dropping a few hundred dollars on software that makes their computer work is a major burden.

Given the large distribution of the Windows OS (this isn't boutique software with a small customer base), it really doesn't make much sense that it's so expensive. If the price was lowered significantly ($50 maybe?), I think MS would see piracy numbers go down and sales go up more than enough for them to remain profitable.

joejohnson• 15 years ago

This is another example of companies pushing away would-be paying customers. This dumb logic has been the music industries policy for a while now; every person brought to trail for piracy was a potential customer or fan of the artist whose music they were pirating.

ChuckMcM• 15 years ago

I share the pain this guy experiences. I had Age of Empires 3 which would not run on my machine, period, because it didn't recognize the CD Rom driver and, as Microsoft explained, it might be a 'virtual' CD ROM and that would violate the terms of service. And even though it wasn't and didn't I could never run their software on that machine.

Thus the who piracy economic argument is broken in three ways:

1) Folks who pirate software won't pay full price, sometimes they won't pay any price. So the economic 'loss' from piracy is either '0' or the area under the curve described by units pirated vs actual purchase price.

The loss is 0 if you use the reasoning that if there were perfect piracy prevention, none of these people would have paid for the retail version.

2) The cost of protection adds additional production costs (printing unique product code stickers and adding them) adding additional steps to boxing/shipping, adding additional activation software and its testing.

3) The additional cost of support when legitimate users like this guy call support to have a human you're paying anywhere between 10 and 25/hr to 'solve' this persons install/operation problems.

Folks who have done the math, with real numbers (and Lotus comes to mind), determine that they earn more money by not including DRM on the product. When Lotus first announced they were removing DRM from their 1-2-3 product they mentioned that nothing they had done had ever slowed down the availability of pirated versions but had added additional support burdens every time.

6ren2• 15 years ago

Just had a thought on seeing your point 1): Part of the value some people buy is exclusivity. If others can get it for free, it reduces this aspect of its value.

cgoddard5• 15 years ago

How does exclusivity add any value to a piece of software? The utility and productivity that I get out of a piece of software is in no way influenced by how anyone else obtained it. Sure, I might be bitter that I didn't also break the law and obtain an illegal free copy of my software, but that's really just sour grapes.

And in business if the value I'm able to produce with software is governed more by my exclusive ownership than my skill with it and other professional skills, then it's probably a good idea to find another line of work.

andrest• 15 years ago

This was the case for music for a long time (still is, but to a lesser extent) before iTunes came along. Downloading music through Napster, Limewire or BitTorrent was simply easier and more effortless. Even though people were willing to pay, they didn't because that would have required more effort to do so.

Too• 15 years ago

This is why i will always save a copy of my windows xp enterprise edition cd. It's xp, which is still decent enough, and it doesn't require any activation, as opposed to the home/pro-editions.

In case apocalypse happens (ehum, my ISP goes down for 24h) i know i can still get a computer up and running without problem if i have to.

nextparadigms2• 15 years ago

Is that legal? One of the reasons MPAA/RIAA are pissing everyone off and have lost all credibility is that they have helped write and pass many copyright related laws that make even the most natural things to do illegal. They are so out of touch with reality.

kenneth_chau• 15 years ago

http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/windows/shop/download-win...

danudey• 15 years ago

The result has been the same for as long as Windows has had serial keys: Pirates find a way around them, they share keys, they disable activation, they patch files, they block hostnames in their hosts files. Regular users jump through hoops, have activation issues, lose their discs, need to phone in, etc.

I'm anti-piracy in general, but whenever I install Windows 7 I always bypass the activation because I've had too many problems going legit.

Likewise with Photoshop. At a previous company, we had a license that would let us install on up to five machines. At some point, we hit that limit and couldn't activate it. The confusing thing was that we only had three machines running it (the main user's desktop, her laptop, and another coworker's laptop). What we realized was that we'd reinstalled her laptop and the coworker's laptop recently, and both of those machines were still activated.

When we called Adobe, they pointed us to a KB article on how to de-activate a Photoshop install, but that requires that it still be installed and working. Adobe said that they couldn't actually de-activate those machines. After some arguing back and forth, they agreed to add another machine to our account (so now we have six machines registered, four with it installed, and two using it concurrently). Now, every time we reformat a machine, we have to call them again because no one remembers to de-register Photoshop before they reformat a user's machine.

iTunes lets you register five computers, and if you hit the limit, de-register them all to start over again. How hard is that?

schoudha• 15 years ago

You don't have to use Windows. The best way to protest is by using another product.

Claiming that you have the moral authority to pirate it is just wrong, doing so re-enforces the need for MSFT to have even stricter anti-piracy measures.

baby• 15 years ago

Bought windows XP. Lost the CD. Had to pirate it.

Bought windows 7 online. Had to download it through windows special download manager which took ages, then gave me some exec that I couldn't burn on a CD... I had to pirate it.

maurits• 15 years ago

Although I don't find MS to be the worst of all suppliers, it is yet an other prime example how companies fail to grasp that the only way they will ever compete with pirated content (be it right or wrong) is by service and by service only. The pirated price is already unbeatable and shamefully, its service is arguably better.

A bit of a rant, but I am getting a bit tired that, still as we enter 2012, what does the paying customer get for his troubles? You don't live in country xx? You can't see/listen/buy online content yy. Although definitely in music and games there has been progress, I could still add hundreds of more examples.

And what currently is the envisioned answer to this flawed business model? A set of laws that will inevitably alter some of our more dear democratic principles. Not to mention the economic fallout.

On a side note, I can't help wondering my thoughts to the teen-sex debates in the US, where some people hopelessly cling to abstinence measures which in theory, work fine. Whereas in practice, there seems to be quiet some empirical evidence that young people, well, just do it.

kyriakos• 15 years ago

I'm actually pirating the version of windows i am using to write this. I bought this laptop which came with a super bloated version of windows 7 64 home edition. no media was provided. you can create your own but it includes the bloatware that comes with it originally installed which defeats the puprose. therefore i went to my favorite torrent site and download windows 7 64 bit home edition and installed it.

i know its not exactly microsoft's fault their os gets so much bloat.. but the experience i was getting from new machine was nowhere near the one i am getting after the clean install.

ubuntuftw• 15 years ago

I, too, am getting really tired of this. It's not just Microsoft though. It's a lot of different companies.

Right now, I'm in the middle of an epic battle with Adobe to get a refund. I bought an educational version of the CS3 master collection back in 2007 when I was in college. I tried to upgrade it because a chat representative said I could, but they were wrong.

After calling their support line 10 times, spending 2-3 hours of my life either on hold or talking to them, being told twice they would call me in X hours and them not calling, they have still refused to honor the deal. It has been the worst customer service experience of my life.

At this point, it's up to some committee at Adobe to decide whether I should get my refund. Like, really? It's that hard of a decision? You told me X when X wasn't true. Give me my money back! Quit being tools.

Anyways, I'm hoping I get it. It's a lost opportunity for them though. They could have said, "Hey, we screwed up. Here are three licenses. We value your business and hope you'll stay a loyal customer." Then, they could have kept my money, and kept me as a customer. But that's not what they did.

Going forward, I really don't think I'll be buying Adobe products anymore. Not because their products are bad. It's that they're over-priced and their customer service sucks.

andrewfelix• 15 years ago

Disaster recovery is much easier with a legitimate windows licence. Both in terms of having the original recovery disk, and support.

There are subtle issues with pirated installations that can cause serious issues when things start to go wrong. (Speaking from experience)

WettowelReactor2• 15 years ago

I dont know why they do this for their client OS but for server OS you can get a free evaluation download of any server product and activate it with a purchased key, no muss no fuss. Also using the provided download manager I have never seen speed issues with these downloads. As far as phone activation, which we have to do for several sites without internet access, the process is a bit long but not nearly as tedious as described. I am admittedly against DRM but if anyone comes close to doing it right its Microsoft on their OS software.

GigabyteCoin• 15 years ago

These are all valid points, aligned with many of the views being upvoted today. However, I'd just like to point something out.

According to this article and many others, we all "pirate stuff" because it's "easier than the paid model"... well, the same goes for driving a car.

I would much rather just walk into my underground parking lot, hotwire a car, and ditch it once I got to my destination. But, I have morals.

I am not likening stealing a car to copyright infringement, only pointing out the reasoning that "I pirate because it's easier to do so" isn't really a moral/valid point.

It's easier for me to kill you instantly with my gun than it is for me to reason with you about a topic I don't care to reason about, too.

Drbble4• 15 years ago

Killing only easy in the absence of social and legal pressure, and in our instincts to not harm members of our "tribe"

zanst• 15 years ago

Seriously, you should start to support free Operating Systems instead of loose your time with Microsoft, pirating it or not.

samstave• 15 years ago

>"Why can't I just enter my product key and download an updated ISO with slipstreamed service packs? "

This is why i still use the MSDN account from many employers ago...

YOU CAN DO THIS with MSDN -- Why not make the MSDN model the way everyone receives their copy. Also, stop selling me CDs or DVDs - put them on USB sticks.

asmosoinio• 15 years ago

The site seems down. Do we need a mirroring service to help with "the HN effect"? Or just people to fix their sites?

billpatrianakos• 15 years ago

This is laughable! User gets pissed by activation system. User does the exact thing that causes the activation to not only exist but become more infuriating as time goes on.

How about you either deal with it or not use Windows. If its that much of a pain then there's no reason to use it. Come on. How do we not see the blatant excuse to pirate something here?

cgoddard5• 15 years ago

What's more laughable is that a minority decide to pirate a piece of software, and everyone gets punished. No, actually, in large part only the people who chose not to pirate get punished. How far does it have to go before people realize the whole strategy is absurd?

akg• 15 years ago

Plain and simple, the existence of piracy is not due to the lack of legislation but due to market failure. I find that many people are more than happy to pay for good service and good products -- even if there are cheaper/free alternatives.

dspillett• 15 years ago

This is not how to show them, nor is it a way to justify piracy.

Unless you really can't live without the next version of Windows, don't use it at all. Keep with the current version for as long as you can (I'm still on XP on the only Windows machine I have) or switch to an alternative (this may be the route I take when I next rebuild).

I'll be rebuilding that desktop machine at some point this year and what-ever OS goes on the new build I hope will not need reinstalling for a few years (so I'll have to upgrade from XP as it drops out of security update support early in 2014). I'm trying to decide to go for Windows 7, or just go completely Linux - currently the Linux option is winning in my mind.

Pretty much the only reason I still run Windows on this home desktop is games. I use OpenOffice for my own documents, and when I need access to MS Office, Visual Studio, and so forth from here I simply VPN+RDC into my machine at the office these days. The rub is that lately I've not been playing that much (I've not had time) and there aren't any games in the near future that I could name as being something I'm waiting for (I'm done waiting for HL?EP3 - if they release it before I leave Windows-land then I'll pre-order, if not then they'll only get a sale out of me if it runs on Linux fine), with PC gaming apparently going in the "beg and jump through hoops or we won't let you play" direction (http://games.slashdot.org/story/12/01/17/1838237/ubisoft-has...) I can see myself simply refusing to buy any new games from the major publishers even if I do keep Windows, and most of the games I have played much of recently could probably be implemented in browsers soon enough (if not already) at which point the choice of underlying OS becomes irrelevant.

So my position is: if I buy Windows 7 in the next six months it may well be the last Windows license I personally purchase. If I don't, then XP will have been (unless you count the Windows 7 Starter license that came with my netbook but currently remains unused). Either way I won't pirate it: it is a buy or don't decision. Heck, if I decide to not keep up-to-date games wise (and decide that I'm not likely to be bothered by losing access to the games I've bought previously) then I'll not only save £80 for the Windows license but I could save a chunk getting a less flashy GFX card too (I'm only upgrading that in this build to get a card with 3 or more outputs that can be used concurrently).

Pirating will just tells them that you want their platform but don't want to pay, using something else tells them that you can live without them and if they want you not to live without them then there are things they need to change.

tobylane• 15 years ago

He is protesting against the overly difficult DRM in an otherwise desirable product. It's easy to skip all the annoying parts, with so few if any downsides.

It's the Windows version of the DVD flow diagram[1] that explains why a pirated movie file is much better than the DVD. I rip all DVDs I come into contact with, and borrow friends DVDs just to rip them. Even if I had time to watch them without ripping I wouldn't want to.

http://i.imgur.com/Xm27A.jpg

ilitirit• 15 years ago

I've got several legitimate Windows licenses. I tried to install it on my dad's computer but I had to leave before the installation completed. I returned a few days later to activate it but somehow a virus managed to infect it. I removed the virus, but Windows just refused to activate with a LEGAL KEY. I tried activating by phone and I received an activation key but it didn't work either (permissions error or something). So I just did the sensible thing and installed a version that I found on TPB.

Seriously Microsoft, drop the activation scheme. It's not necessary and causes nothing but frustration for your end users.

steder• 15 years ago

I think the author is missing the point. Microsoft doesn't really care about the license fee. Your lifetime value to them as a consumer of Windows specific services, digital media, and software is much more valuable than the license fees you'll pay.

On a related note why bother to use Windows if you don't plan on purchasing other Windows-only software? Is the author also planning to pirate Visual Studio and the like as well? If no Microsoft software is being used why not try Linux or Mac?

razzaj• 15 years ago

I disagree totally with the logic the article is following. If you do not like Microsoft's products and services (I don't) that is totally acceptable, and i might add understandable, deal with other software vendors ! I do not understand the logic saying "I hate your service and so i will just steal the product".

If you want to make your point just go ahead and complain, send a written letter move to another vendor (I Have). Stealing, And i will call it that because it is stealing, is not a legitimate nor a logical reaction to crappy service.

The entire internet philosophy, IMO, was build on trust and a certain code of honor if i may say (at the risk of sounding corny) breaking that breaks the internet. Imagine people just screwing up Wikipedia because they think Jimmy Wales did something wrong in their opinion or because an article of their got removed or whatever.

Piracy has always been, and will always be, a thing of the internet. think of it as a wicked charm. I will not encourage eradicating it. To be honest i have used pirated software to evaluate when vendors wont offer evaluation options. But then i would go and buy the damn license, because: 1 - it is the right thing to do, regardless. 2 - If i like something, paying for it will support the vendor to continue on making the stuff i like.

I personally do not like the way Microsoft does business, i dont like their products and i think they are arrogant pricks but if i need to use windows (god forbid) i will still pay for the damn license.

I'm Pirating the Next Version of Windows

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